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A67836
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An apology for Congregational divines against the charge of ... : under which head are published amicable letters between the author and a conformist / by a Presbyterian : also a speech delivered at Turners-Hall, April 29 : where Mr. Keith, a reformed Quaker ... required Mr. Penn, Mr. Elwood ... to appear ... by Trepidantium Malleus ...
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Trepidantium Malleus.
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1698
(1698)
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Wing Y76; ESTC R34116
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83,935
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218
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great changes in God's House not as a King but as a Man of God and all was done by the Commandment of the Lord to him and Nathan the Prophet 1 Chron. 28.19 David had all in Hand-writing 2 Chron. 35.3 Doth not the Lot signify the Divine Appointment as in choosing Matthias in the room of Judas 2 Chr. 29.35 Could David as a King injoyn Posterity But these things have been well replied to by others but by none better if so well as by the ingenious Mr. Alsop in his Melius Inquirendum Bring forth you that talk of Wits many of yours in one Scale we will put this Man in another I vindicate his Arguments not every Mode of Expression If other Writers will not set forth your Church in its Colours I hope Mr. Long of Exon hath lately done it or else I think it will never be done For his Divinity he hath declared plainly That Kneeling in the receiving the Lord's Supper after it was laid aside in King Edward's Days was taken up in Queen Elizabeth's to satisfie the Papists who might come to Church and receive owning the real Presence For his Politicks He hathlately replied to the Life of Mr. Baxter but in that Reply hath deceived the World of their Money and Time by printing about as I remember an Hundred and fifty Pages verbatim out of his other Book against him printed about 16 or 17 Years since What ails the Gentleman Was he troubled with the Hickocks I had replied to it had I not appeared against the Book as well as he tho' on different Accounts Some great Men have said That Mr. B's Book hath done them that is the King's Party more Mischief then any Book printed for Twenty Years past and that it is pity but it were burnt by the Hand of the Common Hangman If it were say I it is pity it should go there alone Mr. Long his Book would be a very good Companion for it For 1. He unsaints Mr. Baxter for a Rebel no Rebel he says can be one What Man What then becomes of the Tribe of Levi now By what Names or Titles soever they be now dignified or distinguished who with the Gentry of the Nation invited over our King and took up Arms against King James Thus I affirm is the King wounded by our Levites who have sworn to him kept Thanksgiving Days for their Deliverance by him His Son indeed is a Non-Juror The honester Man he if he be of such corrupt Principles 2. What may not a Penitent Rebel be saved These Men Corrupted Mr. Baxter and made him turn at last a Non Resister of which he hath to his shame and the shame of his Friends often declar'd and yet no Saint He shamefully denys the Story of the Earl of Antrim which Mr. Baxter as well as others hath sufficiently prov'd May not the Epitaph He hath like a poor empty Man Printed in two Books serve some of the most Reverend Fathers How common was it when the Prince of Orange was expected daily to go to Church in some places twice a day And Pray for King James Grant him in Health and Wealth long to live strengthen him that he may vanquish and overcome all his Enemies And then come out I Pray Is there any hope the Prince will Land we are all undone if he do not And yet to the same Prayers in the Afternoon This Gentleman turns the wrong end of the Perspective when he would ken Rebels that are not Saints I would not be mistaken I know there are a few good excellet unanswerable Passages in the Book as How Oliver Cromwel's Virtues were such that it was wisht Richard might be Heir of them c. Pol. Aphor. And yet both talkt of so odly in the Relique it was a pittiful poor Plea to Mr. Bagslau I think not the worse of Christ Heaven c. Because Oliver own'd it But I have almost forgotten my self This is not my work now For my thus plain dealing in a Letter to the afore named Gentleman I am informed he threatneth to do me what mischief he can to whom I replyed I would take the first oppertunity I could to do him any kindness I could For of all Men I was more obliged to him for my Convictions about Kneeling in the receiving the Sacrament more then to Rutherfords Gelapse or Ames himself Whatever I have said of Mr. Baxter I declare I mean no more then what B Saunderson said at the Savoy He was an illogical Piece yet as one told me who liv'd with him He said He was the best Logician in the World that got all out of his own Head Mr. Baxter tells us in his Life that he early and without having a Tutor one Month all his Days studied Aquinas Occam Scotus and Durand which was able to make Giddy the strongest Head in the World that is to say his own This infected him with a wrangling way of disputing of which he sometimes was so sensible that he caution'd some Candidates for the Ministry against it This also made him sometimes to blunder as when he saith Justification was a transient Act c. In his last Book against Grisp It is the last Plea of some Conformist Obj. But Nonconformist Ministers take the bread out of our Mouths and our People from us You took the bread first out of their Mouths and their People from them when King Saul took Davids Wife from him and gave her to Phaltiel David takes her from him by the first opportunity Let him come weeping behind David cares not for that takes his own Yet I confess it is pity they should take the bread out of your Mouths tho no doubt it could be wisht they could sometimes take the Cup from some of your Mouths And I tell you plainly The Dissenters are but half Beneficed Men generally and the People allow them a poor Maintenance to their reproach and shame be it spoken If they give Forty Shilling a Year they think it much that can give a Thousand Poundsor some Hundreds with a Child I cannot easily think they Love the message much that care so little for the Messenger Yet in many places they were first ours with their Consent and yours without their Consent I now think it convenient having Apologiz'd for many Congregational Men so now for some Anabaptist against the Charge of Antinomianism Countenancing Tradesâ—â—ns Preaching c. That there are Learned Anabaptists in the City and Reverend Divines cannot be denied Mr. Steed Seven Year as I remember an Oxonian Mr. Collins Mr. Harrison and others who are Masters of their work Some that are no Schollars are yet studious Men Preach and Discourse well and such Conformists and Presbyterians themselves sometimes admit tho I think it should be done very sparingly Let such Preach the Gospel who can defend it against Papists Socinians Deist and others I remember He that wrote a Book call'd The Present State of Holland commends the Anabaptist there for their peaceable
Secondly Nay stop Friend said the Judge keep the other Eleven to thy self that one is sufficient I think of this sometimes when writing Did I ever Question worthy Sir whether ever God made or impos'd Forms of Psalms that you tell me were used in the Temple No sure I thought Singing and Praying had been distinct Duties Else some distinguish where is no difference God made these Forms under the Law and reinforced them in the New Testament without his Institution the thing had been an Abomination as would have been once Circumcision and the Passover and now Baptism and the Lords Supper without this You urge 2 Cron. 29.30 I Answer we doubt not but the Church may require what God hath Commanded for it is there said All was done by the Commandment of the King from the Mouth of the Lord Chap. 31.25 The Writer of the Lamentations was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and therefore what Jeremy did he did from God As what the Apostles did they did from Christ who in his 40 Days Conversing with them after his Resurrection taught them the things pertaining to the Kingdom of God that is the Government of the Church Jeremiah required the People to use Scripture The Lamentations Therefore what I know not who may make Prayers and broken ones too for them who have a readiness to express themselves to God as occasion is I will not say the Argument taken from the Lamentations look's like a lamentable Argument it is not Grave enough in it self and therefore not fit to be written to so Grave a Man For 1 Bar. 14.15 I am so much a Protestant and so little a Papist that I slight it We can no more know the Mind of God by the Practise of the Jews than the Mind of Christ by the Practise of the Papist or some others who would take it ill to be named with them God's mind is my enquiry not their practise Forms of Prayer came from Babylon say you you shall have it say I. The reading Apocraphal Books in Churches Hooker in his Eccles. Pol. could hardly forbear Censureing it I think it was one of the most Devilish designs Satan ever had to clap those Books at the end of the Old Testament to ridicule the whole To say nothing of the Book of Tobit or Esdras which Bellarmin would hardly undertake to plead for I stick not to say of the admired Book of Wisdom said by some to be so much like Inspir'd Writings That the Author was a grand R who tells us of Solomon's Prayer to God that he might Govern according to the Example of David his Father Must the Writings of Philo a Jew written after the Jews were unchurched an unbelieveing lying Prophet be read with Canonical Scripture and as Lessons Let us bring in George Fox's Journal next I could say much of the Book Bar. you cite were it convenient You urge Dan. 3. Ergo What Men must pray not read and that according to the Ability God gives would be a better Consequence than what it is brought for 136 Psalm you urge I say It was a Psalm and for your Te Deum keep us this day without Sin had need be well qualified to keep Men from Quakerist Dotages about a Sinless State 2 Cron. 5.3 Proves not it was the same Psalm If it were it proves nothing to our Argument much less 7 Chap. 3. Did David never say but in that Psalm For he is good and his mercy endureth for ever 20 Chap. 21. The Argument is ejusdem farinae so Ezra 3.11 Your Opinion is only asserted by a common Saying not proved If it were no more would follow but this that the same Psalm may be often sung which no Man denies Numb 10.35 compared by you with 163 Psalm 8. Induceth me to think they used not the same Words but some and the other place proves it 2 Cron. 6.41 The use of a Sentence or two upon extraordinary occasions appointed by God will not prove the use of Set Solemn many Prayers in all Publick Administrations appointed by Men. The Jews never had a Liturgy the Book of Psalms was hardly ever pleaded in this Argument by the Old Famous Advocates for the Church of England but by some late and less judicious Writers I remember I have heard that Bishop Andrews was about to Print in Oxon a Liturgy of the Jews to prove they had one under the Law but it was stopt from going to the Press being proved to be made by them since their Apostacy Of all Men under Heaven none care to go to the present Jews for a Pattern of Worship unless such as love indecency and disorder instead of the contrary so much talkt of What you write of Schism 1 wonder at what Church invite and call you me to Is not the present Church Scismatical according to some Men But I will not harp on that String Will you stand to Mr. Hales's Determination of Schism of whose Opinion I am And therefore believe the now called but falsly so Church of England is a notorious Schismatical one from the Old one in Doctrine Discipline and Manners They are alike in imposing unnecessary things suspiciously evil if not really so which Paul would not do on them he knew could not comply Schism doth not signifie primarily by Paul any Separation from a Church but Heats and Uselesness in it for the Corinthians did not erect Altar against Altar Saith Paul That there be no schism in the body but that the members take care one of another That Minister who Preacheth not in season and out of season is a Schismatick while Preaching against Schism Members of a Church that are not forward for acts of Piety and Charity are Schismaticks Alienation of Affection was condemned by Paul What you mean by plainly and positively a Sin I am not sure What if it be so by Consequence What if I have a doubtful Conscience about it Must I be Damned to obey the Church In short The Apostles Rule is this Let us judge one another no more bear with the infirmities of the weak Despise not him that eateth not Rom 14. No Church on Earth can take me off this Rule whatever Church command◠me otherwise commands me contrary to the Law of Christ by Paul and whom I must obey judge you With you no Kneeling no Sacrament no Cross no Baptism The the Salvation of Infants without Baptism be foolishly I confess questioned Yet run a risk rather than part with a Ceremony Good God what madness doth Superstition bring Men to If the most Religious Man in the Parish cannot kneel he must go without the Lords-Supper all his Days and be Excommunicated and Imprisoned too How shall I Curse whom God hath Blessed Could even a wicked Balaam say as bad as he was These wicked wicked Proceedings against Brethren prove your Church Schismatical or Schism maker with a vengeance Not to name what Ames in his Fresh Suit Gelaspee in his English Popish Ceremonies say with