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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A44973 An humble apology for non-conformists with modest and serious reflections on the Friendly debate and the continuation thereof / by a lover of truth and peace. Norton, John, 1606-1663. 1669 (1669) Wing H3402; ESTC R20176 79,882 174

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talk_v of_o much_o but_o by_o many_o it_o be_v to_o be_v fear_v it_o be_v to_o justle_v out_o the_o afternoon-sermon_n out_o of_o door_n for_o we_o find_v in_o many_o church_n there_o be_v neither_o preach_v nor_o catechise_v in_o the_o afternoon_n of_o old_a preach_v be_v account_v praecipuum_fw-la munus_fw-la episcopi_fw-la the_o bishop_n chief_a work_n or_o office_n bishop_n latimer_n be_v very_o smart_a against_o unpreach_v prelate_n in_o his_o time_n but_o of_o late_a time_n the_o lord_n falkland_n in_o his_o speech_n in_o parliament_n charge_v some_o of_o that_o order_n that_o they_o discourage_v and_o discountenance_v preach_v that_o they_o preach_v not_o themselves_o and_o discountenance_v they_o that_o will_v and_o not_o long_o before_o the_o war_n i_o hear_v a_o friend_n a_o minister_n that_o have_v be_v with_o his_o diocesan_n who_o say_v that_o upon_o his_o quote_v of_o bishop_n davenant_n to_o the_o bishop_n in_o justification_n of_o something_o he_o say_v the_o bishop_n reply_v what_o do_v you_o talk_v of_o he_o a_o preaching-coxcomb_n bishop_n latimer_n ridley_n jewel_n etc._n etc._n be_v great_a patron_n of_o preach_v and_o themselves_o practise_v it_o archbishop_n grindal_n go_v so_o far_o as_o to_o countenance_v the_o meeting_n call_v prophecying_n and_o bishop_n hall_n of_o late_a thought_n they_o may_v be_v profitable_a former_a history_n do_v nor_o tell_v story_n of_o any_o bishop_n of_o the_o reform_a religion_n that_o give_v god_n thanks_o that_o he_o have_v not_o leave_v one_o lecture_n or_o one_o afternoon-sermon_n in_o all_o his_o diocese_n there_o be_v a_o gentlewoman_n of_o good_a quality_n cite_v a_o kingly_a preacher_n viz._n solomon_n in_o his_o ecclesiaste_n for_o preach_v in_o the_o evening_n as_o well_o as_o morning_n eccles_n 11.6_o in_o the_o morning_n sow_v thy_o seed_n and_o in_o the_o evening_n withhold_v not_o thy_o hand_n in_o the_o country_n they_o account_v those_o shepherd_n most_o careful_a of_o their_o flock_n and_o 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name_n bring_v that_o scripture_n for_o it_o where_o it_o be_v record_v of_o our_o bless_a saviour_n that_o he_o say_v to_o the_o man_n possess_v of_o the_o devil_n what_o be_v thy_o name_n and_o he_o answer_v my_o name_n be_v legion_n but_o as_o for_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o catechism_n if_o it_o may_v lawful_o be_v do_v i_o can_v be_v glad_a none_o may_v be_v marry_v before_o they_o give_v a_o account_n of_o it_o quest._n sith_o preach_v be_v so_o necessary_a what_o way_n of_o preach_v be_v best_o the_o jingle_a way_n or_o the_o rational_a philosophical_a way_n or_o the_o rational_a scripture_n way_n with_o reasins_z out_o of_o scripture_n and_o testimony_n from_o scripture_n answ_n i_o dare_v not_o commend_v the_o first_o way_n which_o yet_o i_o suppose_v be_v more_o practise_v in_o former_a time_n than_o of_o late_a such_o as_o that_o be_v of_o dr._n pl._n on_o that_o place_n of_o the_o canticle_n my_o bed_n be_v green_a typical_a my_o topical_a bed_n tropical_a green_a 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or_o as_o other_o the_o consumption_n of_o the_o element_n in_o the_o lord_n supper_n hold_v the_o nature_n of_o a_o true_a sacrifice_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a lawfulness_n of_o monastical_a vow_n the_o gross_a substance_n of_o arminianism_n and_o some_o dangerous_a point_n of_o socinianism_n have_v be_v preach_v or_o print_v by_o some_o among_o we_o quest_n if_o it_o shall_v be_v prove_v true_a that_o the_o high_a conformist_n shall_v warp_v somewhat_o from_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n yet_o have_v they_o not_o all_o and_o always_o be_v constant_a and_o firm_a to_o the_o government_n to_o king_n and_o parliament_n and_o great_a admirer_n of_o what_o their_o superior_n do_v and_o say_v answ_n dr._n heylyn_n tell_v we_o that_o he_o can_v reckon_v the_o death_n of_o king_n edward_n the_o six_o for_o a_o infelicity_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n for_o be_v as_o he_o say_v ill_a principled_a in_o himself_o and_o easy_o incline_v to_o embrace_v such_o counsel_n as_o be_v offer_v to_o he_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v think_v but_o that_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o bishopric_n before_o sufficient_o impoverish_v must_v have_v follow_v durham_n and_o the_o poor_a church_n leave_v as_o destitute_a of_o land_n and_o ornament_n at_o when_o she_o come_v into_o the_o world_n in_o her_o natural_a nakedness_n the_o abovenamed_a dr._n heylyn_n in_o his_o history_n of_o the_o reformation_n charge_v the_o grandee_n at_o court_n and_o in_o the_o parliament_n of_o those_o time_n with_o such_o vice_n and_o crime_n as_o our_o adversary_n may_v make_v use_n of_o to_o blemish_v our_o reformation_n all_o which_o with_o some_o other_o consideration_n may_v give_v occasion_n to_o some_o to_o think_v that_o what_o the_o devil_n say_v false_o and_o malicious_o against_o job_n may_v a_o little_a alter_v be_v too_o true_o and_o without_o breach_n of_o charity_n say_v of_o some_o high_a blade_n do_v they_o fear_v and_o honour_v the_o king_n and_o parliament_n for_o nought_o have_v they_o not_o make_v a_o hedge_n about_o they_o and_o about_o their_o house_n and_o about_o all_o that_o they_o have_v on_o every_o side_n and_o their_o substance_n be_v increase_v in_o the_o laud_n but_o let_v but_o king_n and_o parliament_n put_v forth_o their_o hand_n now_o and_o touch_v all_o they_o have_v and_o they_o will_v if_o not_o for_o fear_v of_o punishment_n curse_v they_o to_o their_o face_n quest_n be_v there_o any_o other_o absolute_a promise_n beside_o that_o of_o send_v christ_n into_o the_o world_n answ_n yes_o many_o as_o that_o gen._n 9.9_o not_o to_o drown_v the_o world_n any_o more_o that_o of_o call_v of_o the_o gentile_n gen._n 49.10_o the_o promise_n of_o the_o conversion_n of_o the_o jew_n as_o be_v general_o think_v rom._n 11._o the_o promise_n of_o give_v christ_n the_o heathen_a for_o his_o inheritance_n and_o the_o uttermost_a part_n of_o the_o earth_n for_o his_o possession_n psal_n 2._o and_o that_o isa_n 53._o he_o shall_v see_v his_o seed_n he_o shall_v prolong_v his_o day_n and_o the_o pleasure_n of_o the_o lord_n shall_v prosper_v in_o his_o hand_n that_o christ_n shall_v have_v a_o seed_n to_o serve_v he_o that_o christ_n shall_v certain_o and_o infallible_o save_v some_o and_o the_o lord_n know_v who_o be_v he_o that_o he_o have_v not_o shed_v his_o blood_n in_o vain_a like_a water_n spill_v on_o the_o ground_n that_o this_o glorious_a head_n of_o the_o church_n shall_v certain_o have_v a_o body_n in_o some_o measure_n answerable_a and_o suitable_a to_o the_o head_n etc._n etc._n the_o promise_n of_o first_o grace_n be_v think_v to_o be_v absolute_a i_o will_v take_v away_o your_o heart_n of_o stone_n and_o give_v you_o a_o heart_n of_o flesh_n it_o be_v confess_v we_o be_v bid_v to_o convert_v and_o turn_v and_o to_o come_v to_o christ_n and_o to_o make_v ourselves_o new_a heart_n and_o yet_o it_o be_v as_o true_a that_o we_o can_v do_v any_o of_o these_o thing_n of_o ourselves_o without_o divine_a assistance_n and_o special_a grace_n but_o this_o for_o out_o comfort_n that_o which_o be_v the_o matter_n of_o duty_n in_o one_o place_n of_o scripture_n be_v the_o matter_n of_o a_o promise_n in_o another_o and_o again_o that_o gospel-commands_a be_v not_o only_a signification_n of_o out_o duty_n but_o conveyance_n of_o strength_n to_o do_v our_o duty_n quest_n be_v not_o mr._n w._n b._n absurd_a in_o compare_v god_n people_n to_o plate_n answ_n i_o answer_v there_o be_v scripture-ground_n enough_o to_o justify_v the_o call_n of_o god_n people_n his_o plate_n for_o in_o scripture_n they_o be_v call_v god_n jewel_n or_o his_o peculiar_a treasure_n psal_n 3.17_o and_o obdurate_a wicked_a man_n be_v compare_v to_o reprobate_a silver_n jer._n 6.30_o quest._n may_v we_o not_o say_v that_o we_o come_v to_o the_o promise_n by_o christ_n answ_n in_o he_o be_v all_o the_o promise_n yea_o and_o in_o he_o amen_o 2_o cor._n 1.20_o as_o a_o woman_n have_v a_o right_a to_o her_o jointure_n by_o first_o take_v the_o man_n to_o her_o wed_a husband_n so_o christian_n have_v a_o right_n to_o the_o promise_n and_o all_o good_a thing_n by_o take_v christ_n first_o for_o their_o lord_n and_o husband_n quest._n be_v fear_n the_o chief_a and_o principal_a motive_n of_o a_o christian_a to_o duty_n and_o obedience_n i_o mean_v the_o fear_n of_o punishment_n answ_n no_o the_o chief_a and_o best_a principle_n be_v love_n i_o look_v on_o they_o as_o of_o a_o low_a form_n in_o religion_n who_o only_o serve_v god_n for_o fear_n of_o hell_n although_o this_o fear_n be_v useful_a yet_o it_o be_v not_o the_o principal_a motive_n to_o obidience_n in_o god_n child_n and_o this_o be_v the_o divinity_n of_o former_a time_n i_o do_v not_o hold_v it_o unlawful_a to_o serve_v god_n for_o fear_n of_o punishment_n nor_o hope_n of_o reward_n yet_o this_o i_o say_v that_o fear_v alone_o speak_v a_o man_n a_o servant_n and_o love_n speak_v a_o min_fw-mi a_o son_n and_o those_o be_v the_o best_a servant_n to_o virtue_n who_o serve_v virtutis_fw-la amore_fw-la for_o the_o love_n of_o virtue_n a_o man_n may_v hate_v the_o good_a he_o do_v and_o love_v the_o evil_n which_o he_o do_v not_o do_v if_o then_o a_o man_n do_v that_o which_o be_v command_v mere_o or_o chief_o for_o fear_v of_o hell_n be_v be_v necessary_o one_o of_o god_n best_a servant_n i_o think_v not_o because_o he_o may_v at_o the_o same_o time_n hate_v the_o good_a he_o do_v and_o love_v the_o evil_n he_o abstain_v from_o as_o for_o work_v with_o a_o eye_n to_o the_o reward_n intuitu_fw-la mercedis_fw-la it_o be_v justifiable_a and_o commendable_a it_o be_v that_o which_o moses_n do_v heb._n 11.26_o and_o which_o our_o bless_a saviour_n do_v and_o it_o suffice_v the_o servant_n to_o be_v as_o his_o master_n christian_n to_o be_v follower_n and_o imitator_n of_o christ_n their_o lord_n and_o master_n quest._n be_v good_a work_v necessary_a to_o our_o justification_n debate_n p._n 13._o answ_n the_o church_n of_o england_n 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jewel_n but_o with_o we_o at_o least_o by_o many_o among_o we_o such_o kind_n of_o person_n be_v as_o vile_a though_o not_o so_o common_a as_o the_o stone_n in_o the_o street_n in_o other_o religion_n they_o account_v of_o man_n the_o more_o and_o the_o better_a the_o more_o religious_a they_o seem_v to_o be_v and_o the_o more_o precise_a strict_a and_o punctual_a they_o be_v in_o the_o observation_n of_o the_o rule_n of_o their_o religion_n so_o the_o papist_n so_o the_o turk_n the_o turk_n account_v all_o fool_n to_o be_v saint_n and_o many_o among_o we_o account_v all_o saint_n to_o be_v fool_n and_o the_o great_a saint_n the_o great_a fool_n quest._n be_v not_o nonconformist_n more_o precise_a than_o wise_a in_o not_o allow_v themselves_o and_o other_o the_o delight_n of_o play_n and_o other_o divertisment_n answ_n dr._n heylin_n in_o his_o geography_n observe_v that_o the_o protestant_a minister_n in_o france_n be_v so_o straitlaced_n as_o not_o to_o allow_v of_o mix_v dance_v 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author_n of_o the_o f._n debate_n be_v not_o well_o employ_v in_o write_v these_o book_n and_o in_o discover_v the_o vanity_n and_o childishness_n of_o mr._n t._n w_n write_n or_o the_o falseness_n and_o dangerousness_n of_o mr._n w._n b._n his_o book_n to_o the_o world_n answ_n as_o for_o mr._n t._n w._n i_o have_v hear_v that_o he_o have_v write_v divers_a useful_a book_n and_o i_o suppose_v in_o that_o book_n or_o book_n criticise_v upon_o may_v have_v be_v find_v matter_n as_o well_o as_o phrase_n and_o some_o great_a as_o well_o as_o little_a thing_n and_o if_o a_o man_n have_v a_o mind_n to_o carp_v and_o cavil_v at_o other_o man_n work_n as_o the_o author_n of_o the_o debate_n do_v he_o may_v pull_v some_o of_o the_o father_n by_o the_o beard_n and_o tell_v they_o also_o they_o have_v write_v very_o childish_o all_o man_n write_v not_o in_o the_o same_o we_o and_o phrase_n or_o in_o the_o like_a method_n as_o all_o cook_n dress_v not_o the_o same_o joint_n of_o meat_n with_o the_o same_o sauce_n and_o garnish_v not_o the_o dish_n in_o the_o same_o manner_n when_o they_o send_v it_o up_o and_o some_o reader_n and_o auditor_n like_o one_o way_n of_o writing_n or_o speak_v some_o another_o else_o what_o need_v such_o variety_n of_o gift_n but_o all_o tend_v to_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o church_n the_o scholar_n be_v take_v with_o one_o way_n of_o preach_v or_o write_v the_o citizen_n with_o another_o the_o countryman_n with_o another_o mr._n calvin_n mr._n farrel_n mr._n viret_n all_o three_o have_v their_o excellency_n one_o in_o this_o way_n and_o manner_n and_o another_o in_o that_o if_o the_o doctrine_n which_o be_v preach_v or_o print_v be_v sound_a and_o wholesome_a what_o though_o the_o stile_n and_o phrase_n be_v not_o complete_a and_o polite_a if_o thy_o meat_n be_v good_a and_o savoury_a what_o though_o not_o serve_v up_o in_o a_o lordly_a dish_n i_o have_v rather_o have_v wholesome_a food_n in_o a_o earthen_a platter_n than_o poison_n in_o a_o golden_a charger_n i_o suppose_v all_o conformist_n have_v not_o the_o same_o low_a opinion_n of_o mr._n t._n w._n if_o it_o be_v true_a which_o i_o hear_v that_o one_o of_o they_o preach_v one_o of_o his_o print_a sermon_n and_o that_o a_o citizen_n his_o auditor_n after_o sermon_n go_v to_o he_o with_o a_o thank_v you_o mr._n watson_n for_o your_o pain_n quest_n do_v not_o mr._n w._n preach_v and_o print_v dangerous_a and_o poisonous_a doctrine_n such_o as_o tend_v towards_o commotion_n and_o disturbance_n of_o the_o public_a peace_n answ_n if_o he_o do_v i_o leave_v he_o to_o apologise_v for_o himself_o i_o will_v be_v no_o advocate_n in_o such_o matter_n and_o if_o he_o do_v he_o be_v condemn_v by_o those_o of_o his_o own_o way_n i_o mean_v our_o brethren_n of_o the_o congregational_a church_n twenty_o nine_o minister_n of_o that_o judgement_n as_o to_o church-goverment_n be_v in_o and_o about_o the_o city_n publish_v a_o renunciation_n and_o declaration_n against_o the_o 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a_o better_a man_n than_o ever_o he_o think_v he_o to_o be_v there_o be_v so_o many_o good_a thing_n charge_v upon_o he_o and_o another_o presbyterian_a now_o a_o nonconformist_n preach_v to_o the_o same_o auditor_n preach_v that_o antichristian_a and_o babylonian_a be_v term_n soon_o impute_v or_o charge_v than_o prove_v but_o if_o the_o nonconforming-minister_n or_o people_n be_v yet_o ignorant_a and_o to_o seek_v for_o scoff_v and_o revile_v language_n they_o may_v have_v a_o dictionary_n of_o such_o hard_a word_n out_o of_o the_o friendly_a debate_n if_o there_o be_v in_o private-meeting_n that_o use_v rail_n and_o revile_v speech_n as_o too_o many_o too_o often_o have_v be_v public_a congregation_n i_o will_v rather_o advise_v people_n to_o sit_v quiet_o at_o home_n if_o they_o will_v not_o go_v to_o church_n than_o to_o go_v or_o step_v out_o of_o door_n to_o learn_v their_o language_n i_o do_v not_o love_v a_o bite_a tongue_n and_o i_o take_v a_o black_a mouth_n to_o be_v as_o venomous_a in_o a_o man_n as_o it_o be_v account_v wholesome_a in_o a_o dog_n and_o if_o there_o be_v any_o print_a book_n wi●h_v such_o rail_a speech_n or_o phrase_n in_o they_o i_o will_v promise_v you_o it_o shall_v never_o have_v my_o imprimatur_fw-la without_o a_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la in_o the_o next_o edition_n quest_n be_v the_o divinity_n of_o the_o nonconformist_n a_o phrase-divinity_n and_o in_o case_n their_o book_n and_o sermon_n be_v not_o fill_v with_o foul_a language_n be_v there_o any_o thing_n beside_o fine_a word_n and_o new_a phrase_n in_o they_o answ_n there_o be_v something_o beside_o word_n in_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n witness_v the_o writing_n of_o mr._n dod_n mr._n ball_n mr._n hildersham_n mr._n bradshaw_n etc._n etc._n and_o doubtless_o there_o be_v matter_n and_o that_o good_a matter_n and_o sound_a speech_n that_o need_v not_o to_o be_v ashamed_a in_o the_o write_n of_o nonconformist_n of_o this_o generation_n witness_v the_o book_n write_v by_o mr._n baxter_n dr._n manton_n mr._n caryll_o mr._n allen_n dr._n owen_n mr._n pool_n etc._n etc._n they_o hold_v to_o scripture-expression_n and_o to_o the_o term_n of_o sound_a word_n which_o they_o have_v receive_v from_o the_o most_o serious_a solid_a pious_a bishop_n and_o doctor_n of_o the_o chair_n professor_n at_o home_n and_o abroad_o in_o former_a time_n yea_o the_o nonconforming-presbyterians_a and_o congregational_a minister_n profess_v to_o agree_v with_o our_o article_n of_o religion_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n in_o all_o thing_n concern_v the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n and_o ceremony_n and_o be_v all_o this_o but_o phrase-divinity_n the_o author_n of_o the_o debate_n and_o divers_a other_o of_o the_o present_a conformist_n may_v as_o just_o be_v charge_v for_o new_a divinity_n new_o mint_v word_n in_o divinity_n new_a phrase_n and_o mode_n of_o express_v themselves_o in_o sermon_n and_o write_n and_o these_o too_o less_o conform_v to_o the_o language_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n our_o own_o article_n and_o homily_n the_o harmony_n of_o confession_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o our_o ancient_a bishop_n and_o doctor_n the_o author_n of_o the_o debate_n though_o he_o seem_v to_o be_v the_o bishop_n advocate_n yet_o his_o write_n show_v he_o more_o an_o episcopian_a than_o a_o episcopalian_a and_o it_o be_v easy_a to_o see_v from_o what_o forge_n they_o have_v their_o new_a divinity_n and_o new_a theological_a dictionary_n quest._n be_v not_o the_o nonconformist_n the_o cause_n of_o the_o strange_a and_o new_a doctrine_n and_o opinion_n and_o of_o fantastical_a word_n and_o phrase_n in_o preach_v and_o write_v ans_fw-fr i_o grant_v the_o take_n down_o the_o old_a mound_n or_o hedge_n and_o not_o set_v a_o new_a one_o in_o the_o room_n be_v a_o occasion_n that_o many_o erroneous_a person_n like_o wild_a beast_n do_v get_v into_o the_o vineyard_n and_o that_o some_o strange_a doctrine_n fancy_n phrase_n and_o whimse_n be_v vent_v in_o the_o time_n of_o war_n and_o late_a confusion_n but_o i_o say_v that_o these_o thing_n be_v not_o to_o be_v charge_v upon_o the_o presbyterian_o for_o if_o they_o have_v have_v power_n to_o their_o principle_n and_o purpose_n they_o will_v doubtless_o have_v raise_v up_o a_o mound_n or_o fence_n against_o such_o error_n fancy_n and_o folly_n as_o strong_a as_o that_o the_o parliament_n remove_v i_o have_v hear_v it_o observe_v that_o of_o all_o church_n no_o church_n have_v have_v few_o heresy_n and_o heterodoxy_n spring_v up_o or_o at_o least_o prosper_v in_o it_o than_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n and_o that_o this_o be_v acknowledge_v by_o king_n james_n quest_n be_v all_o that_o take_v the_o covenant_n bind_v thereby_o to_o endeavour_v to_o introduce_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n into_o england_n because_o they_o oblige_v themselves_o to_o maintain_v and_o defend_v religion_n in_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n and_o to_o reform_v religion_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n vid._n contin_n p._n 168._o answ_n no._n they_o engage_v only_o in_o their_o place_n and_o calling_n and_o so_o far_o as_o lawful_o they_o may_v to_o preserve_v religion_n in_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n against_o the_o common_a enemy_n notwithstanding_o which_o the_o scot_n may_v reform_v aught_o that_o be_v amiss_o or_o defective_a with_o his_o majesty_n leave_n and_o consent_n in_o a_o legal_a manner_n and_o the_o english_a covenanter_n be_v not_o bind_v to_o model_n the_o church-government_n in_o england_n according_a to_o the_o pattern_n of_o the_o kirk_n of_o scotland_n but_o according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o the_o best_a reform_a church_n whether_o scotland_n or_o holland_n or_o geneva_n etc._n etc._n be_v the_o best_a reform_a church_n be_v not_o determine_v and_o the_o english_a be_v not_o engage_v in_o their_o place_n and_o calling_n and_o so_o far_o as_o lawful_o they_o may_v by_o the_o covenant_n to_o follow_v the_o model_n of_o 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