To the Law or to the Gospel to his own Obedience or Good Works or to the Obedience of Christ Answ The ordinary method of Cure is first to search the Wound to the bottom and then to apply healing Remedies first to pour in Wine and then Oyl Our Physitians use first to purge or vomit their Patients and then to give Cordials So spiritual Physitians till the Patient be truly and rightly sensible of his sins they send him to the Law for by the Law comes the knowledge of sin the horrid nature and demerit of it but then for Comfort they send him to the Gospel to this soveraign Balsom yea they pour on them the Oyl of Gladness upon whom they perceive has been the Spirit of Heaviness They say not Physitian heal thy self but rather send them to the Great Physitian by whose stripes we and they are healed We dare not trust in our own Righteousness but in the Lord our Righteousness Quest Do not Nonconformists as they desire liberty from the Impositions of Men in the Worship of God so preach up liberty from the Commandments of God in the Course of their Lives Or at least do they not lift up their Voice like a Trumpet when they publish the Gospel but onely speak in a small and still Voice when they treat of Obedience to the moral Law Answ 'T is an unjust Calumny cast on the Protestants by the Papists That they are Solifidians and against good Works And 't is an uncharitable censure of the Nonconformists by the Author of the Debate that they do not preach obedience to the Moral Law as well as Faith in Christ and the Duties of the second Table of the Law as well as of the first Whoever reads the Assemblies Confession of Faith their Larger and Shorter Catechism M. Dod on the Commandments Mr. Anthâ—â— Burgess his Vindiciae Legis may see clâ—â—â— that the Nonconformists are not Libâ—â—â—â—es â—â—â—â—gh they desire some Liberty and that thou 〈◊〉 pray to be delivered and freed from humane ceremonial Laws as God has freed them from the Ceremonial Law of his own making yet they are not Antinomians they commend and in Gods name require Obedience as well as Faith Doing as well as Believing they commend Moral Honesty but prefer Piety We deny him to be a truly godly man that is not a good honest man we deny him to be righteous before God that endeavours not to approve himself righteous in his dealings with men We would not by any means break the two Tables by dashing them one against the other and yet we prefer the Gospel before the Law Christ to Moses the second Covenant to the first that of Grace to that of Works Quest Is not Obedience then to the Moral Law the Condition of our Justification See Debate p. 13. Answ No 'T is not the Condition and Qualification of the Covenant so properly D. M. as 't is of those Persons that enter into the Covenant Faith justifieth the Person before God and Obedience justifieth the Faith before men Obedience saith a Reverend Author must be in the same Subject with Faith but it hath not a Voice in the same Court We do not cry down mans Obedience when we cry up the Obedience of Christ as the matter of our Justification and the Imputation of it as the form of our Justification We dare not appear before God in our own filthy Garments and menstruous Cloaths We expect a Blessing from our Heavenly Father when we are arrayed with the Robes of our Elder Brother Jesus Christ his Righteousness which sends up a sweet smell in Gods Nostrils Quest Is Faith or believing in Christ a coming to Christ or a relying on Christ for the pardon of our sin See Debate p. 43. Answ Yes John 7.37 38. there coming to Christ and believing are all one And to what end Sinners are called to come to Christ we my learn from our blessed Saviour Mat. 11.28 namely That they may find rest I believe in God saith Bishop Nicholson in his excellent Exposition of the Church-Catechism as if I said I put my whole trust hope and confidence in him I â—ely upon him And so may Faith in Christ I â—hink be very well described to be a relying on Christ for the pardon of our sins and all good â—hings If my memory fail not I have often â—eard that Renowned Professor Dr. Samuel Ward deliver it for good Doctrine in the Chair That Faith was Recumbentia in Christum Mediaâ—re c. a Recumbency on Christ for the pardon of â—ins .. One Mr. Down that wrote too against Separation defineth Faith to be a rest of the Will upâ—n Christ and his merits for Justification and consequently Salvation And the same Author obâ—erves that the Hebrew words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all words equipollent in the old Testament and what is meant by them in the Old Testament is expressed in the New by Believing To instance in one Trust in the Lord with thy whole heart saith the Old Testament Prov. 3.5 If thou believest with thy whole heart or with all thy heart saith the New Act. 8.37 We may define Faith thus It it a gracious habit infused into the Heart by the Spirit of God whereby the Soul rests or rolls it self upon Christ for all things appertaining to Life and Godliness for Gods Glory and its own Salvation Quest. Who are the greatest Enemies to the Church of England and to Religion it self those who bring in new and strange Doctrines or those that dissent onely from her as to the Ceremonies Answ Those that differ in Substantials 〈◊〉 Religion are to be thought more to differ thâ—â— those that differ onely in Circumstantials and those ought to be reputed the greatest Nonconformists who do not conform to the Doctrineâ— the Church of England set forth in her Articles Homilies and Liturgy Quest. Who are they Answ Even many that have been conformable enough as to Ceremonies their Names anâ— Tenets you may find in a Book entitled Laudeâ—sium 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and in another called Laâ—densium 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Who they were thâ— maintained these Doctrines and their Doctrinâ—â— in some measure also you may find in Mr. Rushworth's Collections and others who have written the History of the Times immediately preceding the late Wars I shall refer you to one and that is Dr. Fuller in his Church-History who relates that it was complained of to the Sub-committees for Religion in Parliament of which Sub-committee the Bishop of Lincoln the Bishop of Armagh the Bishop of Durham the Bishop of Exeter Dr. Sam. Ward Dr. Hacket Dr. Holdsworth and others were Members that all the Tenets of the Councel of Trent abating only such points of State-Policy against the King's Supremacy as were made Treason by the Statute Good works Co-causes with Faith in Justification private Coufession by particular ennumeration of sins needful necessitate medii to Salvation that the Oblation
a Phrase-Divinity p. 138. Of Ruling Elders p. 141. Of the Use of Reason in Theologie p. 143. Whether Arminians or Calvinists come nearest to the Doctrine of the Church of England p. 144. Non-conformists not like the Donatists p. 145. ERRATA Page 6. line 10. for gage read gauge p. 35. l. 18. f. Antiparistasis r. Antiperistasis p. 36. l. 13. f. humours r. honours p. 37. l. 17. f. Btailas r. Brayles p. 42. l. 12. f. Christmss r. Christmas p. 43. l. 14. f. leave r. leave p. 50. l. 3. f. Rigidissimos r. Rigidissimo's l. 12. r. if more c. p. 79. l. 24. f. mediatore r. mediatorem p. 80. l. 29. f. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 93. l. 23. f. aequilibro r. aeliquibrio p. 117. l. 7. f. disquet r. disquiet p. 119. l. 14. f. Academae r. Academiae l. 19. f. ni sialiter r. nisi aliter An humble Apologie for Nonconformists with modest and serious Reflections on the Friendly Debate and Continuation thereof c. Question WHat Reason can be given if there be no guilt in the Nonconformists that no Answer was given to the Friendly Debate for so long a time Answ Bishop Bramhal that learned Prelate may be their Advocate in this Case I hope the Sons of the Church will not disdain to hearken to a Father of the Church Those who have composed minds free from distracting cares and Means to maintain them and Friends to assist them and their Books and Notes about them do little imagine with what difficulty poor Exiles struggle whose minds are more intent on what they should eat to morrow than what they should write Bishop Bramhal of Schism pag. 275. Besides if an Answer had stolen forth without License would it not have been arrested for a seeming breach of a late Act about Printing and the Author of it according to the Divinity and Logick of the Friendly Debate pag. 3. concluded to be neither a good Subject nor a good Christian vide Deb. pag. 2. Edit 4. Quest. Whit Answer then can be made for printing this present Answer and Apology Answ The Intent and Design of Laws is the Conservation of the Publick Peace The Law is Just Uniform and no Respecter of Persons whether Conformists or Non-Conformists but binds all to the Peace and Good Behaviour alike doth not hold one Mans Hands whilst Another cuts his Throat or stabs him under the fifth Rib. If a Man be once and again violently assaulted he may lawfully defend himself The Author of the Debate hath smitten us on the one Cheek and on the other also hath reviled us and with his Pen persecuted us and said all manner of evil against us falsly In this case a dead and stupid silence might argue we were verily guilty concerning the Crimes laid against us If a man that is Charged Indicted and Arraigned refuseth to plead the Law adjudgeth him to be pressed to death Our blessed Saviour himself Apologized for himself and his Disciples So did Justin Martyr and Tertullian for the Primitive Christians The great and soul Blots which have been cast upon our Names by that Author would not soon out if no means or endeavors should be used to wipe them off Quest. But is every Transgression of a Humane Law though but penal so culpable of criminous as is pretended Answ I humbly conceive not And there are thousands of good Subjects and good Christians many of them good Sons and Daughters of the Church of England who did eat Flesh last Lent or last Fryday asking no Question for Conscience-sake in reference to any penal Law or Statute in that Case and who have not scrupled to bury their Dead in Linen though contrary to a late Act of Parliament And if you lay so great a Burthen upon every breach of a penal Statute how shall the Carrier long keep his Cart on Wheels or the Citizen long stand on his Legs for want of Trading by reason of an Act of Parliament requiring the Tire of the Wheels to be four Inches wide under the penalty of forty Shillings for each offence Quest. Is it not therefore enough to satisfie the Law to pay the Mulct or Penalty required in such Cases Vide Contin pag. 22. Answ Mr. Perkins famous both at Home and Abroad for his great Piety and Learning hath amongst his Cases of Conscience this Case Whether Students in Colledges and Members of Corporations are tied to observance of their Local Statutes under pain of Perjury In resolving whereof he hath something useful and pertinent to our purpose He saith That Statutes are of two sorts Principal and Fundamental or less principal the first sort belonging to the Being of the Society are necessary to be kept under pain of Perjury As to the lest principal namely Statutes that are for Order and Decency the Founder er Law-Maker exacts not Obedience simply but either Obedience or the Penalty because the Penalty is as much beneficial to the state of the Body as the other that is as actual Obedience And in this Case he doth not charge the Breach of any Local Statute with the crime of Perjury And Bishop Taylor in his Rule of holy Living Chap. 3. pag. 183. saith thus As long as the Law is obligatory so long our Obedience is due and he that begins a contrary Custom without reason sinneth But he that breaks the Law when the Custom is entred and fixed is excused because 't is supposed the Legislative Power consents when by not punishing it suffers Disobedience to grow up to a Custom And I have formerly learnt it for good Divinity That every meer or bare Omission to do a thing required by Law is not a sin extra casum scandali contemptus provided it be not done scandalously and contemptuously or with offence to our weak Brother and in contempt of the Magistrate Quest What 's all this to the Case of the present Nonconformists Do not they scandalously and contemptuously break the Laws in dwelling in and neat London and holding Religious Meetings commonly called Conventicles Vide Debate page 2. Answ Many of them have taken the Oxford Oath and are legally qualified to live in Corporations Others cannot possibly live in the Countries for want of a Livelihood I have heard of a Reverend Minister that going abroad to seek maintenance from well-disposed Christians being benighted lost his Way and his Life both being through cold starved to death Others perhaps will plead they cannot live peaceably in the Country I heard one and a principal one say He never looked towards the City nor ever should if he had not been driven out of the Country The Law of Nature teaches the Hart the Hare and all Creatures that are pursued to fly to the nearest and thickest Covert or hiding place I have heard Huntsmen talk of giving the Hare Law I do not well understand Forrest Law but I believe this is not meant by it That she shall have no mercy
Orthodox men not intending evil thereby have in latter times taken up this fashion yet they are generally to be blamed and have much to answer for their Nonconformity herein if we believe the Author of a late Pamphlet call'd the Converted Presbyterian Quest What is to be thought of Afternoon-Sermons is not that a thing wholly superfluous and would it not be better if as the Citizens and others have reduced their Families to one Meal a day so the Ministers would their Congregations to one Sermon a day and so have nothing besides Common-Prayer and Catechism in the evening Deb. p. 89. edit 4. Answ The Lord Falkland in his Speech in Parliament complained of some leading Bishops before the Wars that they cried up Catechising to decry Preaching Catechising indeed is talked of much but by many 't is to be feared it is to justle out the Afternoon-Sermon out of doors for we find in many Churches there is neither Preaching nor Catechising in the Afternoon Of old preaching was accounted praecipuum munus Episcopi the Bishops chief Work or Office Bishop Latimer was very smart against Unpreaching Prelates in his time but of later times the Lord Falkland in his speech in Parliament charged some of that Order that they discouraged and discountenanced Preaching that they preached not themselves and discountenanced them that would And not long before the Wars I heard a Friend a Minister that had been with his Diocesan who said That upon his quoting of Bishop Davenant to the Bishop in justification of something he said the Bishop replied WHAT DO YOU TALK OF HIM A PREACHING-COXCOMB Bishop Latimer Ridley Jewel c. were great Patrons of Preaching and themselves practis'd it Archbishop Grindal went so far as to countenance the Meetings called Prophecyings and Bishop Hall of late thought they might be profitable Former Histories did nor tell stories of any Bishop of the Reformed Religion that gave God thanks that he had not left one Lecture or one afternoon-Sermon in all his Diocess There was a Gentlewoman of good Quality cited a Kingly Preacher viz. Solomon in his Ecclesiastes for preaching in the Evening as well as Morning Eccles 11.6 In the morning sow thy Seed and in the Evening withhold not thy hand In the Country they account those Shepheards most careful of their flocks and to have usually the best Sheep who fothet twice a day The Apostle Paul exhorts ro be instant in season and out of season a Sermon in the afternoon can be but out of season 'T is observed that the Sermons at Court before Queen Elizabeth were constantly in the afternoon And I knew a Parish in the Country where it was desired by the good women That in case their Minister would preach but once a day it might be in the afternoon because they said it might be a meant to keep their Husbands out of the Alehouse The Morning Service according to the Common Prayer-Book being so long they thought a Sermon might be better spared in the morning than in the afternoon Quest Although preaching in the beginning of the planting the Christian Religion might be necessary yet is it so in these days Answ Preaching serves not onely to inform the Understanding but to excite and awaken the Affections and to bring to remembrance what we have been taught before Paul planted and Apollos watered even there where the Apostle Paul had first planted A good Stomach can digest two Meals a day and why may not a Soul of a healthful constitution have two Meals a Week I believe the Christians in Russia have never the fatter Souls for going in lean Pastures for two Meals I mean two Sermons a year Quest Would it not be good Policy not to suffer any to preach but onely to read Common Prayer and the Homilies Would not this be an effectual way and means to prevent Errours and Heresies Rents and Divisions amongst us Doth not this preaching sow many Tares in the Field of the Church Answ I have heard of some Preachers indeed who preach down preaching but I take them to be never a whit the better Preachers nor the better Christians for that I acknowledge the Homilies to contain wholsom and very profitable Doctrine and think I should spend my time better to heat one of them read than to hear some Preachers now-a-days But if ability to read the Book of Common Prayer and the Book of Homilies be all the Book-Learning necessary for a Minister 't is to be feared that some Princes or Parliaments may come before many Ages pass who may be so thrifty as to be willing to save the needless expence of a million or two millions a year in Church-Maintenance and think 20 l. per annum enough for men of such Parts Education and Learning Quest Is not Catechising the younger people in the afternoon a very profitable and a laudable practice Answ This I can say I used It for many years together besides preaching usually twice a day 'T is observed that the Protestants in the begining of the Reformation got advantage over the Papists by their diligence in Catechising and that since the Papists by their diligence the same way have got ground of us I am not against the use of the Church-Catechism for Children and do really think the Right Reverend Bishop Nicholson hath deserved well for bis Exposition of it But I confess I cannot approve of the Vicar that in his Catechising going about to justifie that Question What it thy Name brought that Scripture for it where 't is recorded of our blessed Saviour that he said to the man possessed of the Devil What is thy Name and he answered My Name is Legion But as for the knowledge of the Catechism if it may lawfully be done I could be glad none might be married before they give an account of it Quest. Sith preaching is so necessary what way of preaching is best The Jingling way or the Rational Philosophical way or the Rational Scripture way with Reasons out of Scripture and Testimonies from Scripture Answ I dare not commend the first way which yet I suppose was more practis'd in former times than of late Such as that was of Dr. Pl. on that place of the Canticles My Bed is green Typical My Topical Bed Tropical green Typical Topical Tropical My Bed is green Such as was that of the Doctor and Dignitary at Oxford about the lost Groat such as was the mode of the Wits about thirty years ago and such as was well expressed and exposed since by a Citizen or Countryman who being asked how he liked the Sermon and how the Minister preached Answered He could not say much of it but it ran or sounded thus as if he had said A Pudding a Pie A Pudding-Pie A Pudding for thee A Pie for me A Pudding-Pie For me and thee Nor do I look on him is one of the finest Preachers that lately exhorted his Hearers to put on the Sattin of Sincerity the Purple of Purity
or as others the Consumption of the Elements in the Lords Supper holdeth the nature of a true Sacrifice Prayers for the Dead lawfulness of Monastical Vows the gross substance of Arminianism and some dangerous points of Socinianism had been preached or printed by some amongst us Quest If it should be proved true that the high Conformists should warp somwhat from the Doctrine of the Church of England yet have they not all and alwayes been constant and firm to the Government to King and Parliament and great admirers of what their Superiors do and say Answ Dr. Heylyn tells us that he cannot reckon the death of King Edward the sixth for an infelicity of the Church of England for being as he saith ill principled in himself and easily enclin'd to imbrace such counsels as were offered to him it is not to be thought but that the rest of the Bishopricks before sufficiently impoverished must have followed Durham and the poor Church left as destitute of Lands and Ornaments at when she came into the world in her natural nakedness The above-named Dr. Heylyn in his History of the Reformation chargeth the Grandees at Court and in the Parliament of those times with such vices and crimes as our Adversaries may make use of to blemish our Reformation All which with some other considerations may give occasion to some to think that what the Devil said falsly and maliciously against Job may a little altered be too truly and without breach of charity said of some high blades Do they fear and honour the King and Parliament for nought Have they not made a hedge about them and about their house and about all that they have on every side and their Substance is encreased in the Laud But let but King and Parliament put forth their hand now and touch all they have and they would if not for fear of punishment curse them to their face Quest Is there any other absolute promise besides that of sending Christ into the World Answ Yes many As that Gen. 9.9 not to drown the World any more That of calling of the Gentiles Gen. 49.10 The promise of the Conversion of the Jews as is generally thought Rom. 11. The promise of giving Christ the Heathen for his inheritance and the uttermost parts of the earth for his possession Psal 2. And that Isa 53. He shall see his Seed he shall prolong his days and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hands That Christ shall have a Seed to serve him that Christ shall certainly and infallibly save some and the Lord knows who are his That he hath not shed his Blood in vain like water spilt on the ground that this glorious Head of the Church shall certainly have a Body in some measure answerable and suitable to the Head c. The promise of First Grace is thought to be absolute I will take away your heart of Stone and give you a heart of Flesh 'T is confess'd we are bid to convert and turn and to come to Christ and to make our selves new hearts and yet 't is as true that we cannot do any of these things of our selves without Divine Assistance and special Grace But this for out Comfort That which is the matter of Duty in one place of Scripture is the matter of a Promise in another And again That Gospel-Commands are not onely significations of out Duty but Conveyances of strength to do our Duty Quest Is not Mr. W. B. absurd in comparing Gods people to Plate Answ I answer There is Scripture-ground enough to justifie the calling of Gods people his Plate for in Scripture they are called Gods Jewels or his peculiar Treasure Psal 3.17 And obdurate wicked men are compared to Reprobate Silver Jer. 6.30 Quest. May we not say That we come to the Promises by Christ Answ In him are all the Promises Yea and in him Amen 2 Cor. 1.20 As a woman hath a right to her Joynture by first taking the man to her wedded Husband so Christians have a right to the Promises and all good things by taking Christ first for their Lord and Husband Quest. Is fear the chief and principal motive of a Christian to Duty and Obedience I mean the fear of punishment Answ No The chief and best Principle is Love I look on them as of a lower form in Religion who onely serve God for fear of Hell Although this fear is useful yet 't is not the principal motive to obidience in Gods Children And this was the Divinity of former time I do not hold it unlawful to serve God for fear of punishment nor hopes of Reward yet this I say That fear alone speaks a man a Servant and love speaks a min a Son And those are the best Servants to Vertue who serve virtutis amore for the love of Vertue A man may hate the good he doth and love the evil which he doth not do If then a man do that which is commanded meerly or chiefly for fear of Hell is be necessarily one of Gods best Servants I think not because he may at the same time hate the good he doth and love the evil he abstains from As for working with an eye to the Reward intuitu mercedis 't is justifiable and commendable 't is that which Moses did Heb. 11.26 and which our blessed Saviour did and it sufficeth the Servant to be as his Master Christians to be Followers and Imitators of Christ their Lord and Master Quest. Are good Works necessary to our Justification Debate p. 13. Answ The Church of England in her 11th Article teaches her Children thus We are righteous before God onely for the merit of the Lord our Saviour Jesus Christ by Faith and not for our own Works or Deservings Wherefore that we are justified by Faith onely is most wholsom Doctrine and very full of Comfort c. And in her Book of Homilies Tom. 1. pag. 17. Edit 1623. thus Justification is not the Office of man but God or man cannot make himself righteous by his own Works neither in part nor in whole for that were the greatest arrogance and presumption of Man that Antichrist could set up against God Quest Hath the Doctrine of the Imputation of Christs Righteousness for our Justification been the Doctrine of our Church and the prime Doctors of it Answ The Papists indeed call it with a jeer Putative Righteousness And 't is storied of a Popish Bishop lighting accidentally on that place Rom. 4.6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man unto whom God imputeth Righteousness without Works c. threw away the Book in great displeasure and said O Paule an tu quoque Lutheranùs factus es O Paul art thou also become a Lutheran 'T is observed by 〈◊〉 Conforming Minister that the Apostle Paul mentions this grace of Imputed Righteousness ten times in the 4th chapter to the Romans and Bishop Andrews in his most excellent Sermon on that Scripture Jehova Justitia nostra His naâ—â—
Jewels but with us at least by many amongst us such kind of persons are as vile though not so common as the stones in the street In other Religions they account of men the more and the better the more religious they seem to be and the more precise strict and punctual they are in the observation of the Rules of their Religion So the Papists so the Turks The Turks account all Fools to be Saints and many amongst us account all Saints to be Fools and the greater Saints the greater Fools Quest. Are not Nonconformists more precise than wise in not allowing themselves and others the delights of Playes and other divertisments Answ Dr. Heylin in his Geography observes that the Protestant Ministers in France are so strait-laced as not to allow of mixt dancing The Nonconformists here are not all of this Judgement they did not do not use to enquire before persons approach unto the Lord's Table whether or no where when or how often they have danced whether they go to see Comaedies c. I my self have been asked whether Dancing was lawful I answered Dancing was lawful but whether mixt dancing was they could tell better than I If it was to them a motive or incitement to evil to them it was unlawful else I dare not condemn it as sinful I will not make more sins than the holy Scripture and the Light of Nature has discovered to be so As for Stage-Playes if they were reformd and regulated so as to have no cursing or swearing nothing of lasciviousness and wantonness nothing of impiety or prophaness no putting on of Apparel not belonging to be sex by the Actors I should look on them as one of the best Recreations only I would not have seeing of Playes be made a mans work or business and that which should be but a divertisment be a man's whole imployment But as they are frequently made and acted if we may believe reports the must have stronger Champions than I to throw down the Gantlet or take it up in their defence 'T is well known the Ancient Fathers of the Church and some reverend and learned men Sons of the Church of England have condemned them Dr. Reynolds Doctor of the Chair at Oxford and we are told a Conformist too wrote against them Dr. Andrew Rivet Professor of Divinity and Tutor to the Prince of Orange and one that remembred the condition of our Sovereign when in Exile in his last hours and Prayers is no friend to them And Dr. Fern afterward Bishop of Chester offered to joyn with some Presbyterian Ministers in declaring for the sanctification of the Lord's day and against Stage-playes in the late times Yet as for those that go to see them I do not I dare nor therefore judge them no Christians or no good Christians because sometimes they are seen in the Theatre though oftener in the Church I must confess that that inference I may see a Picture therefore a Play is but weak and dark and but the shadow of an Argument For those who condemn such Representations on the Stage do the like in a Picture that is they damn lascivious wanton Pictures Books Songs as well as Playes Again the seeing of a Picture good or bad hath not I conceive such a powerful influence on us as the acting or personating on the Stage hath We are not usually so affected by reading of a Book as by heating a Speech the voice and action speak louder and are oftner heard than a dumb shadow or a silent picture However to conclude this matter I think the Author of the Friendly Debate had much better have spent his time in hearing or seeing of Plays than in writing of that Treatise yea that he might as well and to as good purpose have gone about to find out the wandring Jew he speaks of as to find Evidence to prove the generality of Nonconformist-Ministers neither good Subjects nor good Christians Quest What then do you think that the Author of the F. Debate was not well imployed in writing these Books and in discovering the vanity and childishness of Mr. T. W's Writings or the falseness and dangerousness of Mr. W. B. his Books to the World Answ As for Mr. T. W. I have heard that he hath written divers useful Books and I suppose in that Book or Books criticised upon might have been found matter as well as phrases and some great as well as little things and if a man had a mind to carp and cavil at other mens works as the Author of the Debate doth he might pull some of the Fathers by the Beards and tell them also they have written very childishly All men write not in the same We and phrase or in the like method as all Cooks dress not the same joynt of meat with the same sauce and garnish not the dish in the same manner when they send it up And some Readers and Auditors like one way of writing or speaking some another else what need such variety of Gifts but all tend to the Edification of the Church The Scholar is taken with one way of preaching or writing the Citizen with another the Countryman with another Mr. Calvin Mr. Farrel Mr. Viret all three had their Excellencies one in this way and manner and another in that If the Doctrine which is preached or printed be sound and wholsome what though the stile and phrase be not compleat and polite If thy meat be good and savory what though not served up in a Lordly Dish I had rather have wholsome Food in an Earthen Platter than Poyson in a Golden Charger I suppose all Conformists have not the same low opinion of Mr. T. W. if it be true which I heard that one of them preached one of his Printed Sermons and that a Citizen his Auditor after Sermon went to him with a Thank you Mr. Watson for your pains Quest Doth not Mr. W. preach and print dangerous and poisonous Doctrines such as tend towards Commotion and disturbance of the publick Peace Answ If he do I leave him to apologize for himself I will be no Advocate in such matters And if he doth he is condemned by those of his own way I mean our Brethren of the Congregational Church Twenty nine Ministers of that Judgement as to Church-Goverment being in and about the City published a Renunciation and Declaration against the horrid Insurrection and Rebellion acted by Venner and his Confederates to which they subscribed their Names In conclusion of which they declare as followeth We cease not to pour out our hearty prayers for all sorts of Blessings spiritual and temporal upon the Person and Government of his Majesty both in our Congregations Families and Retirements and through Gods grace according to our Duties shall continue so to do our selves and to perswade others thereunto and to live quietly and peaceably in all Godliness and honesty And as to the Actings and Resolutions of Venner and his party they say The
a better man than ever he thought him to be there were so many good things charged upon him And another Presbyterian now a Nonconformist preaching to the same Auditors preached that Antichristian and Babylonian were terms sooner imputed or charged than proved But if the Nonconforming-Ministers or People were yet ignorant and to seek for scoffing and reviling language they might have a Dictionary of such hard words out of the Friendly Debate If there be in Private-meetings that use railing and reviling speeches as too many too often have is publick Congregations I would rather advise people to sit quietly at home if they will not go to Church than to go or step out of doors to learn their language I do not love a biting tongue and I take a black mouth to be as venemous in a man as 't is accounted wholsom in a dog And if there be any printed Book wiâ—h such railing speeches or phrases in them I will promise you it shall never have my Imprimatur without an Index expurgatorius in the next Edition Quest Is the Divinity of the Nonconformists a Phrase-Divinity and in case their Books and Sermons are not fill'd with foul language is there any thing besides fine words and new phrases in them Answ There was something besides words in the Old Nonconformists witness the writings of Mr. Dod Mr. Ball Mr. Hildersham Mr. Bradshaw c. And doubtless there is matter and that good matter and sound speech that need not to be ashamed in the Writings of Nonconformists of this Generation witness the Books written by Mr. Baxter Dr. Manton Mr. Caryll Mr. Allen Dr. Owen Mr. Pool c. they hold to Scripture-expressions and to the terms of sound words which they have received from the most serious solid pious Bishops and Doctors of the Chair Professors at home and abroad in former times yea the Nonconforming-Presbyterians and Congregational Ministers profess to agree with our Articles of Religion of the Church of England in all things concerning the Doctrine of Faith and Ceremonies And is all this but Phrase-Divinity The Author of the Debate and divers other of the present Conformists may as justly be charged for new Divinity new minted words in Divinity new phrases and modes of expressing themselves in Sermons and Writings and these too less conform to the language of the holy Scripture our own Articles and Homilies the Harmony of Confessions of the Reformed Churches and our ancient Bishops and Doctors The Author of the Debate though he seems to be the Bishops Advocate yet his Writings shew him more an Episcopian than an Episcopalian and 't is easie to see from what forge they have their new Divinity and new Theological Dictionary Quest. Were not the Nonconformists the cause of the strange and new Doctrines and Opinions and of phantastical words and phrases in preaching and writing Ans I grant the taking down the old Mound or Hedge and not setting a new one in the room was an occasion that many erronious persons like wild beasts did get into the Vineyard and that some strange Doctrines Phancies Phrases and Whimses were vented in the Times of War and late Confusions but I say that these things are not to be charged upon the Presbyterians for if they had had power to their principles and purposes they would doubtless have raised up a Mound or Fence against such Errors Fancies and Follies as strong as that the Parliament removed I have heard it observed that of all Churches no Church hath had fewer Heresies and Heterodoxies spring up or at least prosper in it than the Church of Scotland and that this was acknowledged by King James Quest Were all that took the Covenant bound thereby to endeavour to introduce the Government of the Church of Scotland into England because they obliged themselves to maintain and defend Religion in the Church of Scotland and to reform Religion in the Church of England Vid. Contin p. 168. Answ No. They engaged only in their places and callings and so far as lawfully they might to preserve Religion in the Church of Scotland against the Common Enemy notwithstanding which the Scots might reform ought that was amiss or defective with his Majesties leave and consent in a legal manner And the English Covenanters were not bound to model the Church-Government in England according to the pattern of the Kirk of Scotland but according to the Word of God and the best Reformed Churches Whether Scotland or Holland or Geneva c. was the best Reformed Church was not determined And the English were not engaged in their places and callings and so far as lawfully they might by the Covenant to follow the Model of any one of these or all the Reformed Churches in any thing disagreeing from the Word of God and in case a primitive Episcopacy that is Church-Government by a Bishop with a Presbytery as his Counsellors and Assistants prove most agreeable to the Word of God they were bound to set up onely in their places and callings and so far as lawfully they might that Government in the Church of England Notwithstanding what the Earl of Bristol when Lord Digby hath written in his Letters to Sir Kenelm Digby viz. He that would reduce the Church now to the Form of Government in the most primitive times should not take in my Opinion the best nor the wisest course I am sure not the safest for he would be found pecking towards the Presbytery of Scotland which for my part I believe in point of Government hath a greater resemblance than yours or ours to the first Age of Christs Church But whatever was the meaning of the Imposers or Takers of the Covenant in those days I have heard an eminent Person a Doctor that had taken it though a Nonconformist declare That he was not bound by it to endeavour any other Reformation than what he had been obliged unto if he never had taken the Covenant that he is not bound to use any unlawful or seditious means or endeavours to bring about a Reformation That the Law of the Land is the Rule to judge by what means or endeavours are unlawful and seditious Quest Do not the Presbyterians play fast and loose and turn with the wind Was not the time once when they held Ruling Elders to be Jure Divino but now they hold no such matter Answ I believe the Scottish Presbyterians were and still are of that Judgement that Ruling Elders are Jure Divino but I knew few English if any that held that Office so save onely in a large sence as many Episcopalians now hold Bishops to be Jure Divino that is a lawful Government not repugnant to the Word of God However 't is said and that by no mean Scholar That Geneva did not first institute those Officers but only restored them And I have read that it was acknowledged by a great Prelate That the Church had in every Church certain Seniors to whom the Government of the Church was