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book_n	call_v	principle_n	quaker_n	1,601	5	10.2010	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A65842	A brief discovery of the dangerous principles of John Horne (a priest in Lin) and Thomas Moore junior both teachers of the people called Mooreians or Manifestarians, (and called by some free-willers or independants.) In answer to their book called A brief discovery of the people called Quakers, and a warning to all people to beware of them and of their dangerous principles, &c. Which book is a false narrative of two disputes, the one which they had with John Whitehead at Gedney in Lincoln-shire, and the other with Geo. Whitehead and Geo. Fox the younger, at Lin in Norfolke, both in the seventh moneth, 1659. Also priest Horns testimony against his brethren the priests. This is to go amonst the professors in England in discovery of the truth; ... By the truth which is in George Whitehead. John Whitehead. George Fox the younger.	Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723.; Whitehead, John, 1630-1696. aut; Fox, George, d. 1661. aut	1659 (1659)	Wing W1896; ESTC R220960	30,510	44

A BRIEF DISCOVERY OF THE Dangerous Principles OF John Horne a Priest in Lin and Thomas Moore junior both Teachers of the people called Mooreians or Manifestarians and called by some Freewillers or Independants In Answer to their Book Called A brief Discovery of the People called Quakers and a Warning to all people to beware of them and of their dangerous principles c. Which Book is a false Narrative of two Disputes the one which they had with John Whitehead at Gedney in Lincoln-shire and the other with Geo. Whitehead and Geo. Fox the younger at Lin in Norfolke both in the seventh Moneth 1659. Also Priest Horns Testimony against his brethren the Priests This is to go amongst the Professors in England in Discovery of the Truth For in this Answer the Truth is cleared and John Horne and Tho. Moores Ignorance discovered concerning Perfection and the Resurrection and the Body and Blood of Christ and his Light and other things of concernment and their abusing the Truth which is set over them and their deceits made manifest By the Truth which is in George Whitehead John Whitehead George Fox the younger Jer 10. 21. For the Pastors are become bruitish and have not sought the Lord therefore they shall not prosper and all their flocks shall be scattered Printed for Thomas Simmons at the Bull and Mouth near Aldersgate 1659. TO THE READER THat all People who reads this Treatise may see the confusion and Ignorance of John Horne and Thomas Moore who long have been owned as eminent Teachers by many that are deceived by them it is seen sit that they seriously here take a view of some of the Principles affirmed by the said John Horne and Thomas Moore at the dispute that we had with them as ordered of the Lord at Lin in Norfolke the fifteenth day of the seventh Moneth 1659. for their booke which is hereafter confuted hath some relation to their Principles which are laid down as followeth Thomas Moore affirmed That sin is a natural Heritage in the believers while they are here That their nature is restored in Christ speaking of their own nature and that their nature is a filthy nature and Christ took upon him their nature John Horne That they that had no guile in them had sin in them That every sin is not guile T. M. That the blood of Christ shed is not in his Person in heaven but the virtue of it T. M. That the blood of Christ shed is the foundation of their faith but where it is they answered not nor could they tell T M. That the Life of Christ is not in the bloud of Christ so from this then the foundation of their faith hath not the Life of Christ in it T. M. That the Light with which Christ lighteth every man is both natural and spiritual T. M. That the Person of Christ viz. of flesh and bone is a quickening spirit and dwells in the believers by faith and to prove it he said That the Corinthians dwelt in the heart of Paul J. H. To that of 1 Cor. 15. 45. The last Adam was made a quickening spirit John Horne said That he was distinct from the Eternal Spirit T M. To prove sin a natural heritage in believers so long as they are here he brought that of Rom. 7. 17. These Doctrines with many such like were taken notice of by many as they were asserted by the said John Horne and Thomas Moore and contradicted by the Truth at the Dispute aforesaid wherein it is so easie to see their darknesse and confusion that we need say little about them at present but proceed to Answer their Booke which in effect hath the very same Doctrines in it with many such like so that we desire that our following Answer may be seriously read without prejudice or envy against us and let the Light of Christ judge between us and our Accusers whereby the Readers hereof may see the errours and confusions of these men aforesaid confuted by the Truth and us who love it cleared from their slanders and revilings ANd now John Horne and Thomas Moore you have charged us called Quakers with being guilty of great errors 1. In that you say we plead for and maintain a perfection of sinlessnesse in our selves in this life and to prove this a great Error you say that the Apostles never said of themselves or any other man or woman besides Christ Jesus that they had no sin in in them Answ. Here you are found in the great Error your selves who deny the perfection of sinlesnesse in the believers in this life the Apostle said he that believeth hath the witnesse in himself 1 John 5. 10. which witnesse is perfect and sinlesse so not without the perfection of sinlesnesse and he that believeth hath obtained witnesse that he is righteous and having this perfect witnesse in himself he is not without the perfection and purity of it in himself for the witnesse of God cannot be divided from the nature of it and John said speaking of Christ as he is so are we in this world 1 John 4. 17. so you have manifestly wronged both us and the Apostles and we do not say that there is any perfection in ourselves without Christ who is our righteousnesse and we the righteousnesse of God in him Again to prove our maintaining perfection in this life an Errour you say Christ was manifested to take away sin and in him is no sin 1 John 3. but never is it said so of any other and that it is no where said by any one of the Saints of themselves or of any of their Brethren that they had no sin in them or were not sinners Answ. Here you would accuse the Saints or Brethren with having sin in them and with being sinners while in this life But mark how fairly you have contradicted your own doctrine you tell us It is said indeed that he that abideth in him sinneth not and he that is born of God doth not commit or worksin because the seed of God abides in him neither can he sin that is commit work or yield up to sin because he is born of God you say So you may here see what J. Horn and T. Moore have confessed that he that abideth in Christ sinneth not and that he that is born of God cannot sin nor yield up to sin because his seed remains in him whereas before they have counted our maintaining a perfection of sinlesness in this life a great errour and would accuse the Saints and Brethren with being sinners so any that are not wholly blind may see their confusion and how they have broken themselves upon the stone which they have been making warre against for if Christ be made manifest to take away sin then they in whom he is made manifest are not to have sin remaining in them so long as they are in this life and if he that is born of God cannot sin nor yield up to sin then he is not a

1 2. laying aside all malice and all guile mark all guile and hypocrisy the word and being his distinction he might as well say that envie is not malice because there is and between them but in that thing many saw his folly at the dispute in his affirming that all sin is not guile when as all guile doth only include one sin as he would have it but all sin and any one sin makes a man guilty and so he hath guile in him so that he that had no guile in him had no sin in him and also John Horne hath turned George Whiteheads words about this thing in saying that be said Guile is a transgression of the Law therefore guile is all sin which is falsely framed for the words were to this effect every trangression of the Law is guile or sin and all guile includes all transgression of the Law therefore every sin is guile and what sin can they prove had Nathaniel in him when he had no guile in him they must either prove some sin that was then in him or else see themselves confuted J. Horne and T. Moore in the 3. and 4. pages of their Book say That in the Declaration by Edward Burrough page 4. that we believe the Saints upon earth may be perfectly freed from the body of sin and death herein we are concluded to be Preachers of Lyes and Errors this they charge the Quakers with and yet they say We are compleat in Christ and by the Grace of Christ received shall be and may be here made perfect hearted with Christ but that some are sinlesse here neither Christ nor any Apostle or Prophet ever preached of any therefore the Quakers are deceivers Ans. Here they might as well have accused the true Prophets and Apostles with being Preachers of Lyes and deceivers for they witnessed to the same the Quakers witnesse to as said the Prophet blessed are the undefiled in the way mark undefiled in the way they also do no iniquity Psal. 119. 1 2 3. and saith the Lord ye shall be clean from all your filthinesse Ezek. 36. 25. and Christ exhorted his to be perfect as their heavenly Father is perfect Matt. 5. 48. and every one that is perfect shall be as his Lord and the same Apostle who said ye are compleat in Christ said in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh Col. 2. 10 1. Now the same spirit in J. Horne and T. Moore that hath accused the Quakers with being deceivers for bearing witnesse to these Truths would have accused the true Prophets Christ and his Apostles for being deceivers but their confusion and railing against the Innocent is here made manifest who notwithstanding have confessed a compleatnesse and perfect heartednesse with Christ here and so in pleading for sin in this life are sighting against their own words for they who are compleat in Christ are perfectly freed from sin being compleat in Christ in whom there is no sin and know this that sinners are out of the compleatnesse which the Saints have in Christ and the heare that hath sin dwelling in it is not perfect much more might be said to this John Horne and Thomas Moore p. 3. to prove that they who have believed in Christ comes not to prove the first Adams state before the fall say that Adam before his fall had neither sin in him nor death upon but surely the Quakers must die as well as other mens Adam also before his fall was under a Covenant of works doe this and live and might possibly sin and dye but not so the believers Answ. Mark their heap of confusion here they own that the Believers in Christ are come to a further state or Covenant then Adam was in before the fall who then had no sin in him and yet have accused the Believers with having the body of sin or not being perfect while they are here and Adam might possibly sin and dye but not so the Believers they say And as for the Quakers dying because of which they would accuse them with being sinners here their darknesse appears for Believers dying the natural death doth not prove them sinners while they are here for through death they gain more of the Peace and Glory of God which they partake of in their life time and what doth John Horne believe that Adam might not have dyed the natural death if he had not sinned for Christ dyed who had no sin that he might destroy the death which came by sin and him that hath the power of it and they who dye in the Lord are blessed and to dye is gain unto them Phil. 1. 2● so that righteous mens dying was not charged upon them as a reward for their sin but witnessed to be gain unto them before whose decease their sins are done away and he that believeth hath everlasting life yet the wages of sin is death to them who are not freed from it by the gift of God which is life and God said to Adam in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely dye but Adam lost not his natural life in the day he eat of the tree of knowledge for after that he lived in the body and as for the Covenant that Adam was under before the full it was a Covenant of life for he was in the image of God and a living soule having the breath of life in him and had dominion in it while he stood in his habitation and this state have the true Believers proved and witnessed that life and nature image that was in man before the fall though they be come further in the second Adam who is greater then the first Adam and as for Adam before the fall being under a Covenant of works do this and live as if he had not lived when he was in innocency till he did something to merit life you have here spoken ignorantly for that Covenant of works was established by the Law after the fall and the Law entered because of transgression till the Seed came which Seed destroyes sin and redeems the Creature out of the fall and out of the death which came by sin P. 4. And in their second charge against us called Quakers J. Horne and T. Moor have accused us to be reprobates concerning faith as touching he person of Christ for they say we did not nor could be brought to acknowledge that Christ is glorified in the heavens without all men the heavens above the clouds and distinct from the visible earth in the same body which suffered was crucified dead and buried c. And this have they questioned several times altering their own words and then in page 5. asking whether Christ hath any body of flesh and bones distinct from all other bodies and spirits of men to which they say we would by no means be drawn to give a direct answer But then mark how they have again contradicted themselves

people are overcome and led captive by the Quakers and say John Horn Thomas Moore It s through their own carelesness and formality or also through their Teachers they are not so instructed as to be able to examine and discern them Through their carelesness and weakness therethrough in their understanding of the things of God and conceiting themselves to know and be able to judge and discern of spirits they neglect the helpfulness and gifts of brethren as also the advice of their Teachers and instructors that have the oversight of them and spoken to them the Word of the Lord Answ. Oh be ashamed to see what a bad crop is brought forth what have you been Teachers so long and taking peoples mony for this that notwithstanding they have owned you and your Doctrine and followed you so long that yet they should bring forth no better fruits then these as carelesness and formality and conceitedness and neglect and weakness in understanding the things of God ye have sown but to the fleshly part and that 's the cause you have such a corrupt crop And now we see your Kingdom is near falling who are accusing your fellow Teachers for not instructing the people so as to be able to examine and discern us and the people are led captive already who brings forth such bad fruits as these and had you spoken the Word of the Lord to them and they had believed it surely they would have brought forth better fruits but because you have but stoln from your neighbours much of what you have spoke and added your own imaginations thereto and hath run but the Lord hath not sent you that is the cause you have not profited the people though you have believed what you have spoke and have contended much for your Doctrine yet ye receiving it not from the Lord it was without life and power and so was not effectual to the people John Horn Thomas Moore Oh that all both Ministers and people would yet be awakened to search and try our wayes and to make straight steps to our goings Answ. Yes ye had need to be awakned indeed for it is manifest that ye both Teachers and people have been asleep in the night of thick darkness and you have brought forth night works neglecting Christ the salvation of God and abusing his tru●h taking no pleasure therein but rather in slothfulness formality covetousness pride and vanity in apparrel and many other things and Teachers not instructing people so as they might be able to examine and discern such as come unto them Ye sluggish Shepherds who are yet to be awakened what have you taken peoples mony and goods for all this time was it for your sleeping and dreaming awake awake ye sluggards and own the light of Christ which he hath enlightned you withal and that will shew you your dreaming and the deeds of the night and that will teach you to make straight steps to your goings and to search and try your wayes John Horn Thomas Moore Look to your selves whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the Doctrine of Christ hath not God he that abideth in the Doctrine of Christ hath both the Father and the Son Answ. Then it is manifest that you Thomas Moore and John Horn have not God and out of your own mouths ye shall be Judged for in the 20. pag. of your Book you speak of the heavy Judgement of God that he hath ordered to you to punish you for your neglect of Christ the Salvation of God and the truth of him so long abused by you now it is plain to any that have any true understanding that such as neglect Christ the Salvation of God and abuse his truth that they transgresse and abide not in the Doctrine of Christ and this you have confessed your selves to be guilty of and now your blindness and folly and confusion and wickedness is discovered by the spirit and wisdom of God which abideth in us who abide in the Doctrine of Christ and have both the Father and the Son Many more of your lies and slanders and confusion we could shew you in your Book but that they are not worth the mentioning And think not with your selves that because we reckon not up the rest of your accusations and railing against us that therefore we consent to them as truth for we know that the Lord God will judge and punish you for your perverting the truth and your railing against us and slandering and belying us called Quakers as you have done both in your Book and in many Papers of John Hornes that were posted up against us in Lin and this know that the Lord God of power hath by his mighty power and wisdom armed us to make War against you and to manifest your deceits who are found to be forgers of lyes and deceivers and in enmity against the living truth of God and the longer you proceed therein against us and the truth witnessed by us the more will you be confounded and your folly made manifest that so the honest hearted will begin to loath you and you had better have put your mouths in the dust and been silent then to have blasphemed against the truth of God and against his people as you have done leave your hypocrisie and deceit wherewith you blind the people and feed them no longer with your dreams lyes and stoln dead words least the Lord cut you off in your iniquity for a time of withering is already come upon you And as for you who are the Hearers of the said John Horn and Thomas Moor our Souls pitty you knowing you are under a vail of thick darkness and bondage as we can no otherwise conclude seeing your leaders are tryed and found so much in ignorance and confusion and we wish rather then you would remain under their darkness and deceits that you would come back to the witness of God which hath in many of you been often moving but often hath been quenched through yielding to the sleights and deceits of men and striving to get more into knowledge then into the life and power and now you are but feeding death and seeking the living among the dead while ye go to them for help who are out of the power of God in their own imaginations wherein they are confounded and if ever you come to the Fathers House and there to find the spiritual nourishment you must first return to the light of the Lord in you which you have transgressed and grieved when often it hath appeared against your ungodliness And we would not have you think much against us because we have here dealt plainly by your Teachers in discovering them for we were first occasioned to give forth this because of their false railing book against us or else we had not thus appeared in publick against them and compare this and their book together and you may soon see if you read them sincerely how deservedly we have dealt by them more then they have by us for we sent Queries to John Horn and Thomas Moor in manuscript for them to answer not expecting they would have wronged us as they have done in Print And therefore if they in like manner do again proceed against us in Print we purpose in the Lord further to have their deceits discovered publickly that the truth which is professed and dearly owned by us may be cleared and its enemies have the fruits of their own doings Post-script AND seeing that ye called Moorians hold forth That flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God yet flesh and bones may we ask you these Questions If Elijahs flesh and bones could enter into Gods Kingdom when he was taken up and if his blood could not then when and where and how and by whom was his blood taken and separated from his flesh and bones And what is become of his blood And what is it that hinders the blood that it may not enter into Gods Kingdom as well as the flesh and bones which ye say may Is the transgression of the blood greater then the transgression of the flesh and bones And shall the flesh and bones be redeemed and delivered from corruption and shall not the blood What is the Cause For although the Lord doth what he please yet doth he do any thing without a Cause And whether do you own that Doctrine that when Christ appeared amongst the Disciples after his Resurrection when the doors were shut John 20. 19. that then his body being spiritualized it glided in at the key-hole of the door Which doctrine Thomas Moor sen hath formerly preached as some hath affirmed who heard him And where do the Scriptures say That flesh and bones may in herit the Kingdom of God And where you John Horn and Thomas Moor in page 16. say That Sathan doubtless may reprove of some sins and press to some duties Now have you not here shewn your selves to be Ministers of Sathan and not of Christ And we ask you what duties or any things that are duties doth Sathan press men to Answer directly or let shame cover you which at length will come upon you for your deceits THE END