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book_n call_v church_n time_n 2,817 5 3.2368 3 true
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A96167 An answer to W.R. his narration of the opinions and practises of the churches lately erected in Nevv-England. Vindicating those Godly and orthodoxall churches, from more then an hundred imputations fathered on them and their church way, by the said W.R. in his booke. Wherein is plainely proved, 1. That the grounds of his narration are sandie and insufficient. 2. That the maner of his handling it, unloving and irregular. 3. That the matter of it, ful of grosse mistakes & divers contradictions. 4. That the quotations extremely wrested, and out of measure abused. 5. That his marginall notes impertinent and injurious. / By Thomas Welde, Pastour of the Church of Roxborough in Nevv-England. This is licensed and entred according to order. Weld, Thomas, 1590?-1662. 1644 (1644) Wing W1262; Thomason E3_18; ESTC R2769 70,175 76

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it_o be_v not_o true_a we_o hold_v no_o such_o thing_n 2._o the_o proof_n he_o bring_v no_o whit_n reach_v it_o 3._o it_o be_v direct_o against_o his_o own_o author_n he_o build_v upon_o answer_n to_o 32._o q._n p._n 57_o the_o calling_n say_v he_o of_o assembly_n and_o dismiss_v they_o preach_v the_o word_n and_o prayer_n administer_a the_o seal_n permit_v to_o speak_v in_o the_o assembly_n enjoin_v silence_n vote_v of_o matter_n pronounce_v of_o censure_n etc._n etc._n these_o be_v act_n which_o the_o presbyter_n may_v do_v and_o no_o other_o member_n 4._o it_o be_v contrary_a to_o himself_o chap._n 6._o art_n 8._o where_o he_o set_v down_o the_o several_a act_n which_o he_o himself_o say_v we_o ascent_n unto_o our_o officer_n art_n 10._o he_o say_v that_o if_o a_o minister_n who_o lay_v down_o his_o ministry_n upon_o just_a ground_n he_o be_v now_o become_v as_o a_o mere_a private_a man_n answ_n whereas_o he_o be_v look_v on_o and_o reverence_v as_o a_o worthy_a instrument_n of_o 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we_o current_o hold_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n but_o a_o particular_a and_o that_o we_o deny_v a_o universal_a visible_a church_n in_o any_o sense_n answ_n though_o the_o quote_v author_n say_v there_o be_v no_o church_n proper_o so_o call_v wherein_o ordinance_n may_v be_v administer_v but_o a_o particular_o only_a yet_o we_o acknowledge_v also_o in_o some_o sense_n a_o domestical_a church_n phil._n 2._o to_o the_o church_n in_o thy_o house_n and_o a_o universal_a church_n consist_v of_o all_o visible_a believer_n according_a to_o 1_o tim._n 3.15_o and_o this_o himself_o grant_v we_o hold_v marg._n 2._o art_n 2._o why_o then_o do_v he_o say_v we_o deny_v a_o universal_a visible_a churchin_n any_o sense_n he_o stumble_v at_o the_o smallness_n of_o the_o number_n of_o member_n in_o our_o church_n at_o their_o first_o erection_n 7._o 8._o 9_o say_v he_o and_o on_o this_o string_n he_o harp_v four_o or_o five_o time_n at_o least_o in_o this_o book_n 1._o what_o number_n express_o shall_v make_v a_o church_n be_v not_o set_v down_o in_o scripture_n in_o adam_n and_o noah_n time_n when_o there_o be_v not_o above_o 7._o 8._o or_o 9_o person_n will_v he_o deny_v the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n and_o what_o will_v he_o make_v of_o christ_n his_o family_n where_o be_v not_o above_o 12._o beside_o himself_o and_o of_o the_o first_o foundational_o of_o the_o famous_a church_n of_o ephesus_n who_o be_v about_o 12._o art_n 19_o 1._o 7._o and_o biz●_n on_o that_o place_n say_v paul_n then_o plant_v a_o church_n among_o the_o ephesian_n 2._o when_o our_o number_n be_v thus_o small_a it_o be_v only_o in_o the_o very_a first_o infancy_n of_o it_o it_o abide_v not_o so_o but_o member_n be_v speedy_o and_o daily_o add_v until_o they_o be_v as_o he_o blame_v we_o for_o not_o be_v a_o complete_a organical_a body_n hence_o ●hese_fw-mi objection_n also_o in_o his_o marg_n answer_v of_o want_n of_o employment_n and_o maintenance_n for_o the_o officer_n in_o regard_n of_o their_o small_a number_n he_o say_v article_n the_o three_o we_o deny_v all_o representative_a church_n in_o a_o power_n of_o judicature_n answ_n it_o be_v because_o we_o know_v no_o rule_n to_o set_v the_o officer_n in_o the_o room_n of_o their_o whole_a church_n and_o the_o presbytery_n in_o the_o place_n of_o all_o their_o church_n to_o bind_v the_o one_o or_o the_o other_o to_o stand_v to_o their_o decree_n unless_o we_o have_v apostle_n on_o earth_n again_o for_o church_n officer_n yet_o even_o they_o be_v very_o tender_a in_o this_o point_n to_o the_o margin_n to_o art_n 1._o ●t_z he_o may_v prove_v the_o number_n of_o 7._o 8._o or_o 9_o too_o small_a to_o admini●_n censure_n and_o so_o no_o church_n he_o make_v a_o fair_a addition_n of_o his_o own_o to_o a_o rule_n of_o christ_n for_o whereas_o christ_n direct_v mat._n 18.15_o 16._o a_o offend_a brother_n to_o take_v one_o or_o two_o only_a to_o he_o to_o admonish_v the_o offender_n in_o private_a and_o then_o tell_v the_o church_n now_o he_o will_v have_v this_o course_n beyond_o the_o rule_n twice_o go_v over_o that_o he_o may_v make_v the_o foresay_a number_n too_o small_a for_o a_o church-censure_n so_o that_o he_o will_v rather_o cross_v christ_n himself_o than_o not_o thwart_v we_o and_o here_o he_o make_v a_o long_a discourse_n to_o show_v his_o own_o weakness_n the_o more_o in_o this_o new_a devise_v censure_n of_o he_o he_o say_v the_o apostle_n church_n consist_v of_o many_o thousand_o 1._o not_o in_o their_o first_o beginning_n answ_n for_o in_o the_o great_a church_n the_o number_n be_v small_a enough_o at_o first_o in_o comparison_n act_v 1.15_o and_o this_o be_v the_o time_n of_o our_o church_n we_o now_o speak_v of_o 2._o their_o growth_n be_v sudden_a and_o by_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n certain_o thousand_o be_v add_v in_o two_o day_n and_o so_o necessity_n inforce_v their_o abode_n together_o at_o present_a 3._o they_o continue_v not_o long_o so_o great_a a_o body_n but_o be_v soon_o disperse_v by_o saul_n persecution_n of_o they_o act._n 8.1_o 4._o while_o they_o do_v hold_v together_o they_o may_v possible_o meet_v to_o edification_n as_o well_o as_o in_o some_o of_o our_o church_n here_o in_o london_n as_o cripplegate_n olive_n sepulcher_n and_o other_o where_o the_o minister_n voice_n may_v reach_v to_o edification_n 4._o 5._o 6._o 7000._o soul_n every_o lord_n day_n vid._n mr._n mather_n book_n pag._n therefore_o for_o he_o to_o say_v it_o be_v not_o possible_a etc._n etc._n be_v too_o large_a he_o tell_v we_o our_o church_n can_v be_v gather_v in_o country_n village_n especial_o of_o such_o choice_n member_n etc._n etc._n where_o so_o few_o saint_n be_v etc._n etc._n 1._o that_o be_v the_o fault_n of_o people_n not_o of_o the_o rule_n nor_o of_o the_o way_n answer_v if_o the_o saint_n be_v thin_a sow_v who_o can_v help_v it_o they_o ought_v to_o have_v flow_v in_o more_o abundant_o to_o christ_n by_o the_o gospel_n in_o all_o this_o time_n 2._o they_o may_v partake_v of_o all_o ordinance_n as_o they_o do_v except_o the_o sacrament_n and_o such_o as_o be_v fit_a of_o those_o also_o in_o best_a time_n and_o way_n as_o may_v be_v order_v for_o most_o conveniency_n 3._o he_o must_v not_o limit_v god_n power_n who_o by_o the_o word_n right_o dispense_v and_o his_o blessing_n thereon_o 13.14_o gen._n 13.14_o can_v raise_v a_o people_n for_o himself_o beyond_o all_o our_o thought_n 3.10_o ephes_n 3.10_o as_o he_o have_v do_v elsewhere_o he_o take_v much_o pain_n to_o no_o purpose_n in_o marg._n art_n 2._o to_o prove_v in_o confutation_n of_o we_o that_o in_o some_o sense_n 9.3_o m_o 9.3_o there_o be_v a_o universal_a visible_a church_n answ_n why_o we_o never_o deny_v it_o in_fw-la some_o sense_n but_o blame_v he_o even_o now_o for_o say_v we_o deny_v it_o ☞_o ☞_o i_o wonder_v at_o the_o man_n who_o say_v 1._o that_o we_o hold_v what_o we_o do_v ●●_o 2._o then_o pretend_v to_o prove_v it_o but_o falsify_v his_o author_n 3._o then_o make_v confutation_n of_o his_o own_o say_n as_o if_o they_o be_v we_o 4._o then_o fling_v reproach_n on_o we_o for_o such_o say_n which_o be_v not_o we_o but_o he_o 5._o to_o make_v we_o amends_o in_o the_o end_n of_o his_o margin_n he_o father_v all_o upon_o our_o mutablenesse_n say_v sometime_o we_o acknowledge_v a_o universal_a visible_a church_n but_o usual_o deny_v it_o and_o yet_o even_o in_o this_o also_o he_o slander_v not_o bring_v nor_o be_v able_a to_o bring_v i_o very_o believe_v one_o word_n of_o proof_n that_o ever_o we_o deny_v it_o let_v he_o make_v those_o thing_n good_a or_o humble_o confess_v his_o error_n 5._o to_o marg._n of_o art_n 3._o he_o say_v though_o we_o deny_v in_o art_n 3._o the_o officer_n of_o one_o church_n power_n to_o represent_v their_o church_n in_o her_o judicature_n etc._n etc._n yet_o sometime_o we_o be_v force_v to_o use_v messenger_n to_o represent_v the_o whole_a body_n as_o at_o the_o constitution_n of_o a_o new_a church_n and_o private_a examination_n of_o member_n to_o be_v admit_v answer_v etc._n etc._n thus_o he_o will_v bear_v the_o world_n in_o hand_n if_o you_o will_v believe_v he_o that_o our_o practice_n do_v cross_v our_o principle_n but_o there_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n for_o here_o he_o prove_v not_o neither_o can_v that_o we_o deny_v a_o church_n that_o liberty_n which_o all_o society_n in_o the_o world_n have_v i._n e._n to_o depute_v &_o delegate_v her_o officer_n in_o some_o particular_a case_n as_o in_o her_o name_n and_o stead_n to_o represent_v the_o whole_a body_n for_o this_o be_v no_o more_o than_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n do_v act._n 15.2_o and_o then_o ourselves_o frequent_o do_v in_o some_o instance_n he_o mention_n and_o divers_a other_o but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o give_v those_o officer_n general_o a_o power_n of_o judicature_n in_o and_o over_o that_o church_n and_o a_o compound_n presbytery_n in_o and_o over_o all_o their_o church_n who_o he_o say_v they_o represent_v because_o we_o deny_v the_o latter_a do_v we_o therefore_o the_o former_a 3_o it_o be_v meet_v he_o shall_v take_v notice_n of_o a_o double_a aspersion_n without_o any_o show_n of_o ground_n or_o proof_n cast_v upon_o we_o 1._o that_o we_o deny_v any_o representation_n of_o church_n 2._o that_o we_o cross_v our_o principle_n in_o practise_v what_o we_o deny_v both_o these_o imputation_n i_o hope_v he_o will_v honest_o acquit_v we_o of_o marg._n art_n 4._o in_o the_o definition_n say_v he_o of_o a_o church_n the_o officer_n be_v leave_v out_o he_o know_v well_o that_o a_o definition_n must_v accord_v to_o the_o low_a degree_n of_o the_o thing_n define_v therefore_o we_o use_v to_o put_v in_o only_a essentials_n
their_o covenant_n and_o he_o say_v they_o must_v enter_v in_o afresh_o as_o if_o they_o have_v never_o yet_o be_v receive_v at_o all_o this_o we_o must_v tell_v he_o be_v not_o fair_a deal_n and_o what_o will_v now_o become_v of_o his_o marginal_a note_n upon_o the_o article_n so_o mistake_v many_o other_o collection_n beside_o what_o we_o have_v answer_v to_o already_o he_o make_v in_o his_o marginal_a note_n on_o this_o chapter_n by_o way_n of_o objection_n against_o we_o which_o deserve_v a_o little_a answer_v as_o in_o his_o margin_n to_o article_n 2._o a_o strange_a yet_o bold_a assertion_n say_v he_o speak_v without_o good_a show_n of_o reason_n but_o what_o be_v this_o bold_a assertion_n that_o job_n and_o melchisedec_n be_v no_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n i_o entreat_v the_o reader_n to_o see_v if_o his_o author_n quote_v for_o these_o word_n answ_n will_v bear_v he_o out_o in_o these_o bold_a accusation_n of_o we_o or_o no_o all_o that_o ans_fw-fr to_o 34_o 37._o say_v be_v this_o we_o make_v no_o question_n of_o the_o salvation_n of_o job_n and_o his_o friend_n yet_o it_o be_v a_o great_a question_n whether_o they_o be_v of_o any_o visible_a church_n or_o no_o and_o give_v his_o reason_n see_v the_o visible_a church_n in_o those_o time_n seem_v to_o be_v appropriate_v to_o the_o posterity_n of_o abraham_n etc._n etc._n of_o who_o line_n it_o can_v easy_o be_v prove_v that_o all_o these_o man_n do_v come_v and_o all_o the_o other_o cite_v author_n cn_n to_o 9_o pos_fw-la 66._o say_v be_v this_o we_o no_o where_n read_v there_o be_v this_o reason_n that_o milchisedec_n job_n and_o his_o four_o friend_n be_v circumcise_v neither_o do_v we_o believe_v they_o be_v now_o see_v whether_o 1_o we_o say_v and_o conclude_v that_o these_o holy_a man_n be_v in_o no_o church_n 2._o if_o we_o bold_o assert_v it_o 3._o without_o good_a show_n of_o reason_n 4._o if_o there_o need_v a_o marginal_a confutation_n he_o say_v that_o baptism_n though_o it_o do_v not_o real_o admit_v infant_n into_o the_o visible_a church_n yet_o formal_o it_o do_v etc._n etc._n he_o speak_v beside_o the_o point_n for_o the_o question_n be_v not_o 1._o answer_n what_o do_v formal_o and_o in_o the_o ceremony_n but_o real_o admit_v member_n 2._o not_o infant_n but_o man_n of_o year_n 3._o not_o into_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o a_o particular_a congregation_n so_o he_o may_v have_v spare_v this_o labour_n which_o make_v nothing_o for_o he_o or_o against_o we_o to_o his_o long_a margin_n to_o the_o 3._o article_n wherein_o he_o grant_v a_o covenant_n in_o a_o fourfold_a sense_n but_o deny_v and_o invey_v against_o the_o strictness_n of_o our_o church_n covenant_n i_o shall_v have_v answer_v but_o because_o he_o build_v all_o upon_o a_o gross_a mistake_n which_o be_v answer_v already_o in_o article_n 1_o i._n e._n that_o we_o make_v this_o vocal_a and_o express_a covenant_n necessary_o for_o that_o constitute_n of_o a_o true_a church_n and_o say_v that_o all_o society_n be_v whore_n and_o concubine_n without_o it_o a_o speech_n abhort_v of_o we_o i_o pass_v it_o by_o and_o tell_v he_o that_o what_o he_o build_v upon_o such_o rot_a foundation_n will_v ruere_fw-la mole_n suâ_fw-la he_o make_v four_o false_a supposition_n and_o then_o draw_v sundry_a conclusion_n of_o his_o own_o from_o they_o and_o so_o fight_v with_o his_o own_o shadow_n pag._n 15._o 16._o as_o first_o that_o we_o hold_v the_o church_n covenant_n be_v the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n 2._o that_o in_o our_o church_n covenant_n we_o hold_v it_o necessary_a and_o a_o thing_n essential_a to_o the_o covenant_n to_o make_v repetition_n of_o the_o whole_a covenant_n of_o grace_n 3._o that_o our_o covenant_v to_o perform_v duty_n to_o our_o own_o church_n hinder_v our_o communion_n with_o and_o care_n of_o all_o other_o church_n which_o thing_n be_v nothing_o so_o but_o mere_a mistake_n all_o his_o collection_n from_o they_o vanish_v in_o the_o air_n 4._o that_o some_o man_n do_v enter_v into_o this_o covenant_n and_o yet_o be_v unsatisfied_a that_o it_o be_v a_o way_n of_o god_n and_o so_o can_v safe_o engage_v themselves_o by_o this_o covenant_n which_o also_o be_v a_o mere_a fancy_n of_o his_o own_o i_o pass_v by_o the_o next_o be_v as_o strange_a as_o weak_a p._n 17_o i._n e._n that_o if_o we_o have_v a_o set_a fo●●●_n of_o a_o church-covenant_n impose_v upon_o all_o that_o enter_v into_o the_o church_n ☞_o ☞_o and_o this_o read_v in_o a_o book_n why_o may_v we_o not_o as_o well_o have_v a_o set_a form_n of_o prayer_n and_o liturgy_n to_o be_v read_v in_o church_n ●sw_n ●sw_n the_o narratour_n show_v still_o a_o good_a mind_n to_o set_v form_n it_o be_v the_o three_o time_n he_o have_v be_v harp_v on_o this_o string_n first_o for_o overture_n and_o show_v in_o member_n then_o for_o set_v and_o stand_a rule_n or_o form_n in_o admission_n now_o for_o set_v form_n of_o prayer_n and_o that_o in_o church_n be_v to_o be_v read_v also_o in_o a_o book_n he_o be_v hard_o drive_v for_o argument_n else_o he_o will_v never_o have_v produce_v this_o as_o a_o ground_n for_o set_v form_n of_o prayer_n in_o church_n for_o he_o may_v know_v there_o be_v a_o large_a breadth_n of_o difference_n betwixt_o a_o covenant_n and_o a_o prayer_n for_o 1_o the_o one_o be_v present_v to_o god_n himself_o only_o the_o other_o to_o man_n also_o 2._o the_o several_a article_n and_o all_o branch_n of_o the_o one_o have_v need_n be_v certain_o know_v and_o agree_v on_o beforehand_o that_o they_o may_v punctual_o and_o deliberate_o know_v what_o the_o particular_n be_v they_o engage_v themselves_o to_o god_n in_o no_o such_o ground_n for_o our_o petition_n in_o prayer_n 3._o the_o one_o have_v need_v to_o be_v write_v for_o remembrance_n lest_o we_o shall_v forget_v in_o tract_n of_o time_n what_o the_o several_a branch_n be_v we_o bind_v ourselves_o unto_o according_a to_o jer._n 50.5_o a_fw-la perpetual_a covenant_n not_o to_o be_v forget_v i_o know_v no_o such_o ground_n for_o our_o petition_n in_o prayer_n nay_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o do_v it_o 4._o set_a form_n of_o prayer_n be_v a_o stint_n of_o the_o spirit_n who_o have_v promise_v to_o enlarge_v our_o spirit_n by_o help_v our_o infirmity_n in_o prayer_n as_o well_o in_o matter_n as_o manner_n in_o what_o as_o well_o as_o how_o to_o pray_v rom._n 8.26_o we_o know_v no_o such_o promise_n for_o extemporary_a assistance_n in_o the_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o a_o covenant_n 5._o read_v prayer_n in_o a_o book_n hinder_v the_o affection_n which_o be_v one_o principal_a thing_n in_o prayer_n but_o our_o main_a work_n while_o the_o covenant_n which_o we_o take_v be_v rehearse_v be_v attention_n judgement_n consideration_n all_o which_o be_v not_o hinder_v but_o much_o further_v and_o help_v by_o distinct_a read_n of_o it_o 6._o by_o read_v of_o a_o set_a form_n of_o prayer_n in_o the_o church_n the_o minister_n gift_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v he_o for_o that_o end_n eph._n 4.8.11_o be_v obscure_v and_o in_o great_a degree_n bury_v and_o the_o present_n to_o god_n the_o several_a and_o continual_a necessity_n of_o the_o congregation_n extreme_o hinder_v and_o restrain_v neither_o of_o which_o be_v do_v by_o a_o set_a form_n of_o a_o covenant_n agree_v unto_o and_o read_v at_o the_o take_n of_o it_o 7._o we_o have_v express_v warrant_v in_o scripture_n for_o a_o form_n of_o word_n and_o write_n of_o a_o covenant_n which_o be_v the_o very_a thing_n we_o be_v blame_v for_o see_v neh._n 9.38_o and_o because_o of_o all_o this_o we_o make_v a_o sure_a covenant_n and_o write_v it_o &_o seal_v to_o it_o and_o nehem._n 10.29_o to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o chap._n there_o be_v set_v down_o the_o express_a article_n form_n and_o word_n of_o the_o covenant_n that_o be_v write_v and_o subscribe_v and_o seal_v by_o they_o let_v he_o show_v we_o the_o like_a warrant_n in_o the_o word_n for_o a_o liturgy_n or_o set_v form_n of_o book_n prayer_n for_o a_o congregation_n i_o much_o wonder_n that_o a_o grave_a learned_a man_n especial_a in_o such_o reform_a time_n as_o these_o shall_v so_o far_o forget_v himself_o as_o to_o make_v such_o parallel_n and_o talk_v still_o of_o liturgy_n he_o say_v 1._o in_o this_o marginal_a that_o the_o church_n impose_v that_o set_a form_n of_o covenant_n invent_v by_o one_o or_o more_o upon_o all_o the_o member_n of_o that_o church_n he_o report_v in_o the_o 9_o article_n to_o which_o this_o marginal_a belong_v that_o the_o covenant_n be_v ever_o in_o one_o and_o the_o same_o form_n of_o word_n as_o well_o as_o matter_n in_o the_o same_o church_n both_o which_o be_v great_a mistake_n 1_o to_o the_o former_a answ_n though_o the_o
it_o may_v be_v so_o and_o yet_o when_o he_o come_v to_o speak_v of_o the_o other_o part_n of_o the_o contradiction_n i._n e._n that_o we_o have_v no_o communion_n in_o the_o sacrament_n as_o if_o he_o study_v to_o cross_v himself_o he_o be_v as_o full_a in_o his_o denial_n of_o it_o vid._n cap._n 9_o art_n 4_o 5._o 2._o note_v how_o thick_a his_o say_n and_o unsaying_n fall_v in_o cap._n 9_o art_n 1._o ☜_o ☜_o he_o affirm_v we_o hold_v communion_n with_o other_o church_n and_o church_n member_n and_o then_o present_o in_o 4_o 5._o art_n of_o the_o very_a same_o chap._n he_o express_o deny_v that_o we_o hold_v any_o such_o communion_n then_o again_o in_o the_o very_a next_o chap._n the_o 10._o art_n 1._o he_o say_v as_o full_a as_o can_v be_v that_o we_o hold_v communion_n mutual_o with_o other_o church_n and_o by_o in_o chap._n 12._o 8._o as_o full_o and_o express_o deny_v again_o that_o we_o hold_v any_o such_o thing_n the_o man_n be_v a_o able_a and_o judicious_a man_n in_o other_o thing_n it_o be_v more_o remarkable_a he_o shall_v be_v thus_o extreme_o leave_v to_o confound_v himself_o while_o he_o seek_v to_o confound_v our_o poor_a innocent_a church_n let_v any_o careful_o observe_v in_o all_o these_o thing_n mention_v whether_o i_o have_v not_o deal_v candid_o with_o he_o or_o no._n art_n 2._o he_o report_v 1_o that_o one_o church_n may_v give_v power_n to_o another_o over_o any_o of_o her_o member_n for_o excommunication_n 2_o that_o the_o minister_n of_o one_o church_n may_v convey_v power_n to_o the_o minister_n of_o another_o for_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n answer_n neither_o of_o both_o which_o do_v we_o hold_v or_o practice_v the_o only_a author_n cite_v that_o we_o can_v come_v at_o be_v cot._n cat._n p._n 7._o who_o word_n be_v these_o the_o supper_n be_v dispense_v by_o the_o minister_n to_o the_o faithful_a of_o the_o same_o church_n or_o to_o such_o as_o be_v commend_v to_o they_o by_o a_o like_a body_n see_v if_o here_o be_v one_o tittle_n to_o bear_v he_o out_o yet_o from_o these_o assertion_n which_o he_o say_v we_o hold_v he_o fling_v rebuke_n upon_o we_o in_o his_o comment_n upon_o his_o own_o text._n p._n 37._o whereas_o indeed_o we_o may_v reprove_v he_o 1_o misreport_v 2_o abuse_v his_o author_n 3_o reprove_v we_o without_o cause_n without_o letter_n of_o recommendation_n from_o one_o church_n and_o minister_n to_o another_o it_o be_v unlawful_a say_v he_o art_n 3._o in_o any_o case_n to_o administer_v any_o church_n ordinance_n to_o any_o church_n member_n but_o their_o own_o upon_o any_o pretence_n whatsoever_o 1._o here_o be_v neither_o truth_n nor_o proof_n to_o be_v see_v answ_n 2._o letter_n of_o recommendation_n for_o public_a participation_n be_v not_o send_v from_o one_o minister_n to_o another_o but_o from_o a_o church_n to_o a_o church_n 3._o we_o hold_v it_o not_o unlawful_a but_o do_v often_o practice_v to_o receive_v other_o member_n to_o communion_n with_o we_o without_o letter_n especial_o if_o they_o be_v know_v to_o any_o of_o our_o church_n else_o such_o letter_n be_v desirable_a but_o he_o say_v we_o do_v it_o not_o in_o any_o case_n upon_o any_o pretence_n whatsoever_o which_o be_v utter_o false_a and_o without_o proof_n he_o tell_v we_o that_o we_o be_v so_o straitlaced_n that_o if_o a_o company_n of_o godly_a people_n shall_v sit_v near_o we_o where_o our_o power_n reach_v differ_v from_o we_o only_o in_o some_o point_n of_o church-government_n they_o shall_v not_o only_o not_o be_v own_v as_o a_o sister_n church_n but_o shall_v be_v in_o danger_n of_o severe_a punishment_n by_o our_o magistrate_n ans_fw-fr 1_o if_o you_o weigh_v well_o this_o accusation_n of_o we_o in_o all_o the_o particular_n it_o be_v very_o harsh_a and_o sore_o and_o here_o be_v no_o proof_n but_o h._n w._n who_o this_o shall_v be_v i_o profess_v i_o can_v tell_v unless_o some_o malignant_a or_o backfriend_n among_o we_o there_o or_o whether_o such_o a_o thing_n be_v ever_o write_v in_o these_o word_n and_o sense_n i_o know_v not_o and_o if_o it_o be_v certain_o so_o write_v and_o from_o a_o godly_a man_n yet_o it_o be_v but_o one_o single_a witness_n and_o i_o be_o forbid_v and_o so_o be_v all_o other_o 1_o tim._n 5.19_o to_o receive_v a_o accusation_n against_o one_o elder_a much_o more_o against_o all_o the_o elder_n and_o church_n in_o new-england_n without_o two_o or_o three_o witness_n therefore_o we_o dare_v not_o believe_v it_o 2._o to_o this_o very_a point_n in_o hand_n the_o ans_fw-fr to_o 32._o 9_o p._n 82_o 83._o speak_v full_o and_o fair_o which_o w._n r._n well_o know_v for_o it_o be_v write_v to_o himself_o among_o other_o deal_v not_o candid_o to_o conceal_v that_o answer_n of_o a_o print_a book_n from_o know_a author_n of_o credit_n in_o new-england_n because_o it_o be_v fair_a and_o love_a for_o what_o other_o ground_n can_v he_o have_v and_o bring_v in_o the_o answer_n of_o h.w._n a_o man_n we_o know_v not_o which_o be_v harsh_a and_o distasteful_a how_o can_v the_o conceal_n of_o that_o and_o relate_v of_o this_o seem_v ingenuous_a or_o friendly_a to_o we_o or_o the_o truth_n answer_v to_o chap._n xi_o he_o make_v report_n of_o a_o groundless_a course_n as_o he_o call_v it_o in_o the_o church_n at_o cambridge_n in_o new-england_n where_o say_v he_o the_o people_n use_v to_o meet_v together_o private_o each_o one_o to_o hold_v forth_o the_o work_n of_o grace_n in_o he_o or_o her_o soul_n from_o the_o first_o conversion_n to_o that_o day_n so_o that_o their_o pastor_n may_v know_v their_o growth_n in_o grace_n and_o say_v also_o that_o as_o some_o report_n the_o end_n of_o this_o meeting_n be_v to_o cast_v out_o by_o excommunication_n non-proficients_a ans_fw-fr with_o what_o face_n can_v any_o godly_a man_n call_v such_o meeting_n of_o the_o saint_n for_o such_o a_o holy_a end_n as_o to_o try_v their_o growth_n in_o grace_n a_o groundless_a meeting_n and_o so_o cast_v dirt_n upon_o it_o for_o he_o make_v proof_n of_o no_o other_o end_n beside_o that_o 2._o do_v these_o godly_a people_n ever_o cast_v any_o out_o of_o the_o church_n there_o mere_o for_o nonproficiency_n 3._o he_o have_v still_o forget_v that_o rule_n in_o 1_o tim._n 3.19_o that_o require_v two_o or_o three_o witness_n to_o be_v bring_v forth_o etc._n etc._n who_o yet_o proceed_v upon_o i_o know_v not_o what_o relation_n to_o believe_v and_o report_v yea_o and_o print_v to_o the_o view_n of_o the_o world_n what_o in_o his_o opinion_n may_v detract_v from_o a_o reverend_a elder_n and_o a_o godly_a church_n also_o no_o marvel_n he_o call_v his_o book_n a_o poor_a pamphlet_n true_o it_o be_v so_o indeed_o if_o all_o thing_n we_o have_v discover_v in_o it_o be_v well_o weigh_v and_o it_o will_v appear_v yet_o poor_a before_o we_o have_v do_v to_o any_o candid_a reader_n it_o be_v our_o humble_a suit_n to_o heaven_n that_o god_n will_v discover_v to_o himself_o the_o weakness_n and_o error_n of_o his_o deal_n herein_o for_o the_o humble_v of_o his_o spirit_n answer_v to_o chap._n xii_o a_o short_a answer_n may_v serve_v to_o this_o long_a chapter_n for_o most_o of_o it_o as_o also_o of_o the_o two_o next_o be_v but_o a_o repetition_n of_o thing_n speak_v once_o or_o twice_o some_o of_o they_o thrice_o before_o and_o answer_v to_o already_o he_o say_v in_o the_o begin_n of_o his_o preface_n he_o want_v not_o work●_n but_o it_o seem_v now_o towards_o the_o end_n of_o his_o book_n he_o be_v more_o at_o leisure_n and_o so_o he_o think_v his_o reader_n be_v also_o else_o why_o he_o shall_v so_o double_v &_o treble_v the_o very_a same_o thing_n totidem_fw-la verbis_fw-la i_o know_v not_o unless_o happy_o to_o make_v a_o deep_a impression_n of_o his_o own_o mistake_n in_o his_o reader_n in_o art_n 1._o he_o tell_v we_o that_o after_o a_o church_n be_v gather_v it_o be_v often_o some_o year_n before_o she_o address_v herself_o to_o the_o call_n of_o officer_n whereas_o it_o be_v our_o usual_a and_o constant_a course_n as_o have_v be_v say_v not_o to_o gather_v any_o church_n until_o they_o have_v one_o among_o themselves_o ans_fw-fr fit_a for_o a_o minister_n who_o with_o all_o speed_n they_o call_v into_o office_n and_o account_v themselves_o a_o lame_a and_o imperfect_a body_n till_o that_o be_v effect_v in_o his_o marg._n on_o that_o art_n he_o say_v he_o be_v tell_v to_o his_o comfort_n that_o many_o that_o be_v count_v good_a minister_n in_o old-england_n be_v there_o lay_v aside_o because_o they_o aim_v at_o man_n of_o special_a part_n 1._o we_o desire_v proof_n for_o this_o aspersion_n unjust_o cast_v on_o we_o answ_n or_o else_o we_o shall_v still_o father_n it_o upon_o himself_o as_o
cause_n here_o you_o see_v be_v 1_o faction_n 2_o partiality_n 3_o both_o those_o appear_v 4_o obstinacy_n 5_o continue_v in_o obstinacy_n after_o mean_n use_v according_a to_o rule_v all_o these_o before_o the_o censure_n of_o admonition_n pass_v but_o you_o in_o your_o relation_n leave_v out_o all_o these_o word_n of_o your_o author_n and_o put_v in_o such_o of_o your_o own_o as_o will_v not_o so_o much_o enforce_v a_o censure_n as_o these_o and_o then_o tax_v we_o at_o your_o pleasure_n and_o make_v bitter_a invective_n against_o we_o in_o your_o margin_n if_o i_o shall_v have_v retort_v and_o say_v this_o deal_n of_o you_o be_v harsh_a uncharitable_a foolish_a destructive_a etc._n etc._n it_o will_v have_v trouble_v you_o yet_o you_o be_v but_o a_o single_a person_n those_o who_o you_o reproach_n be_v whole_a church_n many_o church_n of_o saint_n but_o we_o have_v learn_v what_o the_o apostle_n say_v 1_o pet._n 2.23_o and_o to_o forbear_v this_o article_n be_v thus_o lay_v prostrate_a there_o be_v nothing_o at_o all_o in_o his_o marginal_a extraction_n worth_a answer_n he_o blame_v we_o art_n 12._o that_o we_o deny_v unto_o the_o church_n all_o power_n to_o make_v any_o particular_a rule_n or_o law_n in_o thing_n indifferent_a conduce_v to_o the_o better_a government_n of_o herself_o and_o more_o orderly_a and_o edify_a performance_n of_o god_n worship_n accord_v to_o the_o general_a rule_n of_o scripture_n etc._n etc._n 1._o he_o have_v falsify_v his_o print_a author_n allege_v for_o this_o art_n ans_fw-fr answ_n to_o 32._o q._n 66._o col._n cap._n 7._o where_o be_v not_o a_o syllable_n of_o thing_n indifferent_a for_o whereas_o they_o indeed_o deny_v church_n power_n to_o make_v law_n about_o church_n government_n etc._n etc._n their_o word_n &_o meaning_n be_v express_v it_o be_v only_o in_o such_o matter_n where_o the_o scripture_n have_v make_v law_n already_o and_o therefore_o they_o say_v the_o church_n have_v no_o power_n to_o make_v law_n but_o to_o observe_v those_o law_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v and_o command_v and_o do_v allege_v mat._n 28.20_o deut._n 33.3_o john_n 20.27_o none_o i_o hope_v can_v think_v this_o a_o thing_n indifferent_a for_o we_o to_o add_v law_n to_o christ_n his_o own_o law_n and_o this_o be_v all_o they_o say_v 2._o if_o you_o mean_v by_o make_v of_o law_n infer_v of_o plain_a and_o necessary_a conclusion_n from_o their_o proper_a ground_n in_o scripture_n we_o grant_v a_o power_n in_o a_o church_n so_o to_o do_v yet_o so_o as_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v bind_v unless_o the_o evidence_n of_o the_o consequence_n be_v make_v appear_v as_o rom._n 14.5.22.23_o but_o i●_n by_o make_v of_o law_n you_o mean_v a_o draw_n of_o conclusion_n from_o remote_a principle_n such_o as_o the_o bishop_n be_v wont_a to_o do_v all_o thing_n must_v be_v decent_o do_v and_o in_o order_n therefore_o a_o surplice_n a_o cross_n in_o baptism_n a_o bow_n at_o the_o altar_n etc._n etc._n we_o deny_v it_o as_o a_o inlet_n of_o all_o humane_a invention_n many_o of_o the_o marginall_n of_o this_o 6_o chap._n be_v already_o answer_v some_o few_o remain_n as_o who_o will_v not_o long_o to_o be_v church_v see_v they_o be_v endue_v with_o such_o a_o vast_a power_n this_o be_v a_o sweet_a morsel_n no_o marvel_v people_n tooth_n so_o water_n after_o it_o etc._n etc._n p._n 23._o i_o can_v tell_v you_o who_o belong_v not_o for_o church_a it_o be_v w._n r._n himself_o who_o with_o heart_n ●sw_n ●sw_n hand_n and_o pen_n thus_o oppose_v it_o but_o why_o do_v not_o his_o tooth_n also_o water_n after_o it_o it_o be_v i_o suppose_v because_o the_o people_n have_v a_o voice_n in_o church_n matter_n and_o minister_n can_v carry_v all_o 2_o why_o do_v you_o think_v w._n r._n that_o people_n tooth_n shall_v so_o much_o water_n after_o this_o way_n see_v they_o be_v under_o many_o watchful_a eye_n a_o strict_a covenant_n disgrace_n in_o the_o world_n sharp_a censure_n and_o overharsh_a too_o if_o all_o you_o say_v be_v true_a therefore_o why_o shall_v they_o so_o much_o desire_v these_o way_n think_v you_o they_o be_v so_o cross_a to_o corruption_n that_o will_v have_v elbowroom_n unless_o they_o do_v see_v and_o feel_v our_o beauty_n and_o warmth_n of_o christ_n in_o they_o this_o be_v the_o true_a and_o real_a cause_n the_o word_n say_v h_z and_o the_o sacrament_n shall_v be_v both_o settle_v on_o the_o ministry_n go_v preach_v and_o baptize_v etc._n etc._n why_o do_v we_o separate_v they_o pag._n 23._o to_o preach_v by_o office_n which_o be_v the_o preach_v that_o christ_n there_o give_v in_o commission_n to_o his_o disciple_n be_v call_v to_o be_v apostle_n be_v proper_a only_a to_o minister_n ●swer_v ●swer_v who_o be_v to_o wait_v upon_o teach_v rom._n 12.7_o and_o this_o preach_n and_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v ever_o join_v together_o in_o the_o same_o person_n but_o there_o be_v a_o preach_n in_o a_o large_a sense_n i._o e_fw-la sometime_o to_o apply_v a_o word_n of_o instruction_n exhortation_n consolation_n if_o necessity_n shall_v require_v according_a to_o their_o talon_n be_v invite_v thereunto_o and_o this_o may_v be_v common_a to_o other_o godly_a and_o able_a christian_n though_o not_o call_v into_o office_n as_o art_n 8._o 1._o 4._o where_o the_o whole_a church_n except_o the_o apostle_n be_v scatter_v by_o persecution_n and_o they_o that_o be_v so_o scatter_v without_o distinction_n of_o minister_n or_o people_n go_v to_o and_o fro_o preach_v therefore_o other_o beside_o minister_n in_o some_o case_n may_v preach_v the_o word_n if_o you_o take_v preach_v in_o a_o large_a sense_n 3._o for_o the_o two_o instance_n he_o bring_v p._n 24._o of_o people_n unabilitie_n of_o judge_v elect_a vote_v etc._n etc._n from_o holland_n and_o boston_n etc._n etc._n 1._o the_o best_a people_n on_o earth_n may_v have_v their_o hour_n of_o temptation_n and_o personal_a fail_n do_v not_o hinder_v the_o goodness_n or_o truth_n of_o the_o rule_n ●nsw_n ●nsw_n 2._o what_o church_n in_o the_o world_n have_v not_o possible_o first_o or_o last_o give_v or_o else_o may_v give_v strange_a instance_n of_o humane_a frailty_n but_o still_o you_o count_v their_o way_n good_a 3._o even_o those_o church_n you_o mention_n be_v able_a at_o other_o time_n both_o before_o and_o since_o to_o act_v as_o become_v prudent_a and_o godly_a man_n though_o possible_o at_o that_o time_n they_o may_v show_v themselves_o to_o be_v but_o man_n 4._o these_o person_n recover_v out_o of_o their_o error_n and_o lay_v not_o in_o it_o you_o shall_v have_v mention_v this_o as_o well_o as_o that_o if_o the_o officer_n through_o scruple_n of_o conscience_n perhaps_o refuse_v to_o act_v according_a to_o their_o i._n e._n the_o people_n mind_n they_o will_v &_o they_o hold_v they_o may_v call_v four_o any_o other_o member_n to_o do_v and_o enable_v he_o with_o power_n to_o do_v all_o that_o their_o officer_n shall_v have_v do_v except_o sacrament_n a_o most_o unjust_a and_o slanderous_a report_n and_o without_o any_o word_n of_o proof_n answ_n so_o now_o we_o must_v father_n it_o upon_o he_o and_o do_v here_o require_v he_o to_o prove_v it_o for_o almost_o every_o word_n be_v a_o aggravation_n but_o i_o study_v brevity_n and_o mention_v this_o before_o art_n 9_o they_o complain_v in_o print_n that_o their_o minister_n be_v slight_v among_o they_o yea_o trample_v upon_o by_o some_o and_o mention_n for_o this_o cot._n on_o 2_o vial_n p._n 24._o of_o who_o word_n judge_v and_o you_o shall_v not_o find_v one_o word_n to_o warrant_v he_o all_o his_o invective_n against_o we_o on_o the_o 11._o article_n marg._n for_o extort_v a_o consent_n from_o such_o as_o dissent_v from_o we_o be_v exceed_v slanderous_a and_o not_o a_o word_n true_a nor_o any_o tittle_n of_o proof_n for_o none_o be_v ever_o admonish_v for_o dissent_v but_o for_o faction_n and_o obstinacy_n as_o his_o author_n speak_v as_o be_v say_v before_o let_v i_o hear_v tell_v the_o reader_n there_o be_v sundry_a unsound_a and_o uncouth_a passage_n in_o this_o chap._n as_o indeed_o through_o the_o whole_a book_n which_o for_o brevity_n i_o be_o force_v to_o pass_v by_o and_o indeed_o not_o worth_a my_o time_n i_o entreat_v thou_o to_o take_v all_o his_o say_n with_o a_o grain_n of_o salt_n know_v from_o what_o spirit_n they_o proceed_v answer_v to_o chap._n vii_o in_o this_o 1._o art_n there_o be_v three_o thing_n that_o will_v be_v find_v too_o light_a 1._o he_o affirm_v we_o say_v all_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o be_v settle_v member_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n yet_o in_o his_o margin_n he_o affirm_v answ_n we_o allow_v some_o to_o be_v admit_v transient_a member_n for_o a_o time_n only_o now_o to_o be_v settle_a and_o yet_o transient_a be_v