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book_n according_a king_n law_n 1,630 5 4.7476 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A18933 The conuerted Iew or Certaine dialogues betweene Micheas a learned Iew and others, touching diuers points of religion, controuerted betweene the Catholicks and Protestants. Written by M. Iohn Clare a Catholicke priest, of the Society of Iesus. Dedicated to the two Vniuersities of Oxford and Cambridge ... Clare, John, 1577-1628.; Anderton, Lawrence, attributed name.; Anderton, Roger, d. 1640?, attributed name. 1630 (1630) STC 5351; ESTC S122560 323,604 470

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brother_n because_o a_o ospring_n be_v then_o beget_v of_o that_o former_a mariadg_n to_o wit_n the_o daughter_n of_o herodiades_n who_o so_o please_v the_o king_n with_o dance_v that_o she_o obtain_v the_o head_n of_o s._n john_n baptist_n that_o this_o daughter_n be_v the_o daughter_n of_o herodiades_n beget_v by_o the_o brother_n of_o herod_n be_v acknowledge_v by_o the_o testimony_n of_o matheun●_n chrisostome_n second_o i_o further_a answer_n to_o this_o example_n of_o herod_n that_o the_o sin_n of_o herod_n be_v not_o only_a incest_n but_o also_o adultery_n since_o herod_n do_v marye_n the_o wife_n of_o his_o brother_n he_o be_v yet_o live_v as_o s._n mathae●m_n jerom_n witness_v out_o of_o ancient_a history_n and_o 9_o josephus_n aver_v the_o same_o thus_o far_o then_o of_o this_o point_n to_o show_v that_o all_o the_o precept_n of_o le●iticus_n touch_v the_o prohibit_v degree_n in_o mariadg_n be_v not_o command_v by_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n and_o that_o they_o do_v not_o 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main_n heresy_n or_o paradox_n whole_o impugn_a gainsay_v and_o contradict_v both_o by_o protestant_a and_o catholic_a for_o this_o man_n in_o this_o respect_n be_v to_o be_v style_v rather_o a_o open_a heretic_n than_o a_o protestant_n even_o in_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o protestant_n themselves_o therefore_o to_o conclude_v this_o last_o observation_n even_o as_o when_o beast_n of_o several_a kynde_n or_o species_n do_v couple_n together_o that_o which_o be_v engender_v be_v of_o a_o three_o kind_a diverse_a from_o they_o both_o so_o here_o that_o religion_n or_o faith_n which_o be_v as_o it_o be_v propagate_v from_o the_o mixture_n of_o contrary_a religion_n must_v be_v a_o belief_n different_a from_o they_o al._n these_o thing_n be_v premise_v now_o m._n doctor_n or_o either_o of_o you_o two_o may_v begin_v to_o instance_n in_o protestant_a professor_n for_o every_o age_n and_o i_o shall_v reply_v thereto_o as_o my_o judgement_n and_o read_v will_v best_o enable_v i_o ochinus_n 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angel_n it_o deffend_v baptism_n give_v by_o layperson_n 1●9_n in_o time_n of_o necessity_n and_o the_o grace_n ibidem_fw-la of_o that_o sacrament_n as_o also_o confirmation_n 132._o of_o child_n and_o strength_n give_v they_o thereby_o it_o mention_v according_a to_o the_o custom_n use_v in_o time_n at_o mass_n at_o this_o very_a day_n the_o priest_n turn_v sometime_o to_o the_o altar_n 115._o and_o sometime_o to_o the_o people_n 117._o it_o ordain_v that_o answerable_o yet_o to_o our_o catholic_a custom_n 4._o alleluya_n shall_v be_v say_v from_o easter_n to_o trinity_n sunday_n it_o prescribe_v the_o priest_n blessing_n of_o the_o 139._o bride_n &_o brydegroome_n with_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n it_o allow_v the_o priest_n absolution_n of_o the_o sick_a penitent_a with_o these_o particular_a word_n by_o 14●_n the_o authority_n commit_v unto_o i_o i_o absolute_a thou_o of_o all_o thy_o sin_n it_o mention_v a_o special_a confession_n 142._o of_o the_o sick_a penitent_n and_o last_o it_o command_v the_o 14●_n anoint_v of_o the_o sick_a person_n which_o we_o catholic_n call_v the_o sacrament_n of_o extreme_a unction_n so_o little_a reason_n ocbinus_n you_o see_v you_o have_v to_o affirm_v that_o the_o protestancy_n of_o the_o present_a church_n of_o england_n be_v the_o same_o which_o be_v mantain_v and_o public_o establish_v by_o king_n edward_n ochinus_n indeed_o i_o grant_v the_o communion_n book_n be_v then_o make_v by_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o parliament_n but_o i_o instruct_v those_o with_o who_o i_o converse_v to_o reject_v those_o superstition_n their_o confirm_a d._n reynolds_n well_o let_v that_o pass_v it_o avail_v not_o much_o whether_o protestancy_n be_v here_o in_o england_n at_o those_o day_n or_o no_o since_o it_o be_v certain_a it_o be_v then_o most_o full_o dilate_v in_o many_o other_o country_n by_o the_o late_a afore_o raise_v up_o of_o luther_n who_o be_v miraculous_o send_v by_o the_o holy_a
either_o the_o place_n by_o your_o in●ertions_n and_o addition_n be_v corrupt_v or_o that_o you_o have_v violate_v they_o by_o divorce_a the_o word_n from_o their_o true_a intend_a sense_n which_o sense_n of_o their_o no_o doubt_n be_v different_a from_o that_o meaning_n and_o construction_n which_o you_o have_v impose_v upon_o they_o but_o to_o confess_v my_o ignorance_n i_o have_v not_o at_o any_o ty_o 〈…〉_z r●d_v the_o former_a author_n and_o therefore_o i_o must_v refer_v this_o point_n for_o my_o full_a satisfaction_n to_o the_o judgement_n of_o m._n vice_n chancellor_n here_o present_a michaeas_n i_o do_v assure_v your_o 〈◊〉_d in_o all_o sincerity_n that_o the_o testymonye_n of_o the_o former_a protestant's_n be_v true_o allege_v without_o any_o s_o 〈…〉_z 〈…〉_z ertion_n either_o of_o the_o word_n or_o sense_n and_o hearein_o i_o appeal_v even_o to_o m._n vicechancelour_n own_o judgement_n who_o if_o he_o can_v change_v i_o with_o any_o such_o wilful_a imposture_n but_o in_o any_o one_o of_o the_o passage_n above_o i_o will_v acknowledge_v myself_o guilty_a in_o all_o beside_o all_o the_o former_a author_n be_v long_o since_o depart_v out_o of_o this_o world_n and_o therefore_o my_o fault_n if_o any_o such_o be_v shall_v be_v far_o more_o odious_a and_o insupportable_a since_o christian_a charity_n teach_v we_o to_o tread_v gentle_o upon_o the_o grave_n of_o the_o dead_a vicechancelour_a suppose_v michaeas_n that_o we_o shall_v grant_v that_o all_o the_o former_a protestant_n do_v teach_v as_o you_o have_v produce_v they_o for_o to_o speak_v the_o truth_n i_o can_v take_v any_o just_a exception_n against_o your_o allegation_n and_o the_o less_o see_v i_o find_v some_o of_o our_o own_o brethren_n by_o you_o allege_v and_o particular_o d._n bancroft_n and_o d._n succlif_n to_o acknowledge_v with_o discontent_n their_o say_a sentence_n yet_o see_v they_o be_v but_o certain_a metaphysical_a and_o airy_a speculation_n only_o of_o scholar_n man_n unapt_a for_o a_o mes_fw-fr and_o rebellion_n and_o not_o of_o any_o act_v spirit_n their_o doctrinal_a commination_n therefore_o as_o never_o be_v accompany_v with_o any_o external_a act_n of_o disloyalty_n be_v to_o be_v repute_v the_o less_o dangerous_a to_o prince_n and_o magistrate_n and_o thus_o in_o regard_n hereof_o it_o may_v be_v true_o say_v that_o the_o error_n of_o those_o former_a protestant_n hearein_o be_v but_o small_a though_o the_o point_n about_o the_o which_o they_o err_v be_v great_a but_o the_o case_n be_v far_o otherwise_o with_o you_o papist_n who_o do_v not_o only_o teach_v and_o warrant_v rebellion_n by_o your_o doctrine_n but_o also_o have_v actual_o practise_v the_o same_o with_o great_a effusion_n of_o innocent_a blood_n to_o the_o amazement_n of_o all_o christendom_n and_o irreparable_a dishonour_n of_o your_o own_o religion_n micheas_n i_o will_v here_o speak_v with_o the_o poet_n m._n vice_n ch._n mutatio_fw-la nomine_fw-la de_fw-la te_fw-la fabula_fw-la narratur_fw-la since_o these_o your_o word_n do_v ●ustly_o recoil_v upon_o yourself_o and_o your_o religion_n and_o therefore_o even_o to_o choke_v you_o irreplyable_o hearein_o i_o will_v present_v to_o your_o view_n the_o tragical_a &_o deplorable_a face_n of_o many_o state_n and_o country_n in_o christendom_n engender_v from_o the_o former_a protestant_n principle_n in_o the_o contemplation_n whereof_o we_o shall_v find_v it_o a_o mystery_n ever_o peculiar_a to_o diverse_a protestant_a state_n to_o cast_v of_o their_o loyalty_n and_o obedience_n that_o so_o either_o by_o one_o mean_n or_o other_o they_o will_v either_o find_v right_a or_o make_v right_a to_o violate_v the_o bond_n of_o all_o sovereignty_n as_o man_n speak_v of_o hercules_n break_v gorgon_n knot_n with_o who_o it_o have_v be_v usual_a to_o grow_v wanton_a in_o shade_v of_o blood_n for_o the_o more_o speedy_a establishment_n of_o their_o gospel_n to_o the_o end_n then_o that_o these_o former_a doctrinal_a theorem_n of_o rebellion_n shall_v not_o become_v more_fw-mi airy_a as_o it_o plese_v you_o m._n vicech_a to_o term_v they_o i_o will_v true_o and_o real_o incorporate_v they_o in_o diverse_a most_o lamentable_a insurrection_n and_o outrage_n perpetract_v by_o protestant_a subject_n against_o their_o catholic_a prince_n many_o of_o which_o rebellion_n do_v receive_v their_o first_o conception_n and_o after_o their_o birth_n even_o from_o the_o violent_a incitement_n and_o instigation_n make_v by_o diverse_a of_o the_o afore_o allege_a protestant_n writer_n in_o the_o mind_n of_o the_o subject_n against_o their_o catholic_a liege_n lord_n and_o in_o show_v this_o i_o will_v first_o begin_v with_o england_n than_o scotland_n and_o so_o i_o will_v pass_v to_o other_o more_o remote_a country_n now_o touch_v england_n do_v we_o not_o find_v that_o the_o aforenamed_a l._n archbishop_n d._n bancroft_n speak_v of_o the_o attempt_n make_v in_o q._n maryes_fw-mi time_n for_o advance_v of_o the_o protestant_n religion_n thus_o write_v sundry_a englishman_n do_v write_v hither_o meaning_n 34._o from_o geneva_n sundry_a letter_n and_o book_n of_o this_o subject_n that_o the_o counsellor_n of_o q._n mary_n time_n nobleman_n inferior_a magistrate_n and_o rather_o than_o fail_v the_o very_a people_n be_v bind_v before_o god_n to_o overthrow_v superstition_n and_o reform_v religion_n whether_o q_o mary_n will_v or_o no_o yea_o though_o it_o be_v by_o put_v she_o to_o death_n and_o according_a herto_o we_o thus_o read_v in_o the_o former_a book_n of_o obedience_n by_o god_n law_n and_o man_n law_n q._n marry_o ought_v to_o 103._o be_v put_v to_o death_n as_o be_v a_o tyrant_n a_o monster_n and_o a_o cruel_a beast_n o_o poor_a and_o titulary_a sovereignty_n that_o be_v force_v in_o these_o man_n judgment_n to_o be_v thus_o subject_a to_o it_o own_o subject_n and_o to_o endure_v those_o opprobrious_a and_o contumelious_a term_n from_o any_o one_o obscure_a superintendent_n which_o civil_a conversation_n forbid_v among_o man_n of_o the_o mean_a rank_n and_o quality_n no_o supreme_a domination_n and_o rule_n whearewith_o prince_n be_v invest_v be_v like_a to_o he_o from_o who_o itself_o original_o first_o stream_v that_o be_v absolute_a and_o independent_a and_o brook_v not_o the_o control_n of_o any_o such_o who_o god_n have_v subjugate_v to_o it_o by_o lawful_a subjection_n but_o to_o proceed_v from_o these_o former_a and_o other_o such_o element_n and_o principle_n of_o treason_n it_o come_v to_o pass_v that_o one_o wiltin_n thomas_n 1104._o with_o other_o conspire_v to_o murder_n q_n mary_n for_o which_o offence_n he_o be_v hang_v draw_v and_o quarter_v that_o d._n crammer_n 10●3_n archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n partly_o for_o spread_v seditious_a book_n and_o chief_o under_o pretext_n of_o religion_n for_o aid_v the_o d._n of_o northumberland_n with_o horse_n and_o man_n be_v send_v to_o the_o tower_n arraign_v in_o the_o starrchamber_n &_o attaint_v of_o high_a treason_n final_o that_o s._n thomas_n wyatt_n second_v with_o the_o d._n of_o suffoch_n attempt_v his_o treason_n against_o 1046._o the_o say_a q_o mary_n only_o under_o the_o colour_n of_o erect_v protestancy_n but_o to_o leave_v england_n and_o to_o come_v to_o scotland_n who_o be_v ignorant_a that_o knox_n 366._o be_v instruct_v in_o this_o art_n at_o geneva_n return_v into_o scotland_n attempt_v to_o reform_v religion_n even_o by_o open_a rebellion_n and_o force_v of_o arm_n and_o murder_v the_o cardinal_n in_o his_o bedchamber_n at_o s._n andrew_n be_v convent_v to_o appear_v before_o the_o queen_n regent_n and_o for_o not_o appear_v be_v proclaim_v rebel_n in_o like_a sort_n d._n bancroft_n thus_o further_o write_v of_o knox_n and_o his_o confederate_n and_o follower_n they_o 1●_n keep_v the_o field_n two_o month_n and_o take_v away_o to_o themselves_o the_o coin_v iron_n and_o iustify_v the_o same_o etc._n etc._n they_o give_v the_o queen_n the_o lie_n diverse_a time_n and_o use_v she_o with_o most_o despi●full_a speech_n and_o renounce_v their_o obedience_n unto_o she_o and_o depryve_v she_o of_o all_o further_a regiment_n by_o formal_a act_n pen_v by_o kno●_n the_o say_v d._n bancroft_n thus_o further_o enlarge_v himself_o touch_v knox_n and_o high_a follower_n say_v by_o supra_fw-la the_o persuasion_n of_o knox_n in_o his_o sermon_n they_o do_v cast_v down_o and_o destroy_v ●t_a s._n andrews_n both_o the_o house_n of_o the_o eryar_n and_o the_o abbey_n in_o that_o town_n so_o deal●_n they_o with_o the_o abbey_n of_o scone_n the_o friar_n at_o ste●cling_v &_o lu●quo_n and_o edenburrough_n the_o queen_n be_v flee_v thence_o for_o fear_n thus_o d._n bancroft_n of_o these_o man_n proceed_n who_o not_o content_a in_o afflict_v the_o say_a queen_n in_o such_o rebellious_a a_o manner_n further_o extend_v their_o malice_n and_o disloyalty_n in_o so_o high_a a_o degree_n to_o the_o last_o queen_n of_o scotland_n as_o that_o his_o decease_a majesty_n her_o son_n thus_o complain_v thereof_o 81._o how_o
we_o at_o what_o time_n some_o sensible_a degree_n and_o increase_v of_o this_o suppose_a change_n do_v happen_v and_o the_o manifestation_n of_o these_o degree_n be_v to_o be_v make_v by_o name_v the_o time_n and_o person_n when_o &_o by_o who_o such_o and_o such_o a_o particular_a point_n or_o article_n of_o our_o present_a roman_a religion_n be_v first_o sensible_o introduce_v into_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n the_o which_o not_o any_o protestant_n notwithstanding_o all_o his_o exquisite_a and_o precise_a search_n of_o ecclesiastical_a history_n have_v be_v able_a yet_o to_o perform_v and_o thus_o far_o m._n doctor_n of_o these_o your_o similitude_n which_o you_o see_v in_o a_o true_a balance_v of_o they_o do_v become_v rather_o hurtful_a then_o beneficial_a to_o your_o cause_n and_o therefore_o they_o have_v be_v better_o forbear_v by_o you_o then_o urge_v d._n whitaker_n indeed_o i_o grant_v that_o there_o be_v no_o history_n or_o record_n at_o this_o day_n out_o of_o which_o we_o can_v certain_o collect_v the_o change_n of_o religion_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n but_o no_o doubt_n such_o record_n there_o be_v though_o now_o whole_o extinguish_v &_o make_v away_o by_o the_o vigilancy_n and_o carefulness_n of_o former_a pipe_n who_o to_o preserve_v the_o honour_n of_o their_o church_n as_o free_a and_o exempt_a from_o all_o change_n and_o innovation_n do_v deliberate_o &_o purposely_o cause_v all_o copy_n of_o such_o write_n and_o narration_n to_o be_v for_o ever_o suppress_v and_o bury_v in_o oblivion_n either_o by_o fire_n or_o otherwise_o card_n bellarm._n m._n doctor_n this_o be_v a_o mere_a groundless_a fantasy_n if_o you_o have_v any_o grave_a testimony_n warrant_v a_o general_a suppression_n of_o all_o such_o record_n then_o all_o of_o they_o be_v not_o extinguish_v since_o the_o testimony_n which_o affirm_v so_o much_o be_v yet_o extant_a if_o you_o produce_v no_o authority_n witness_v so_o much_o then_o why_o shall_v we_o believe_v your_o bare_a and_o naked_a affirmation_n herein_o but_o to_o examine_v more_o punctual_o this_o poor_a refuge_n and_o first_o whereas_o you_o teach_v that_o this_o change_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n come_v in_o by_o degree_n now_o by_o innovate_a one_o point_n of_o the_o ancient_a true_a faith_n now_o another_o suppose_v for_o the_o time_n this_o to_o be_v true_a how_o can_v it_o be_v conceive_v that_o all_o the_o copy_n of_o such_o particular_a change_n in_o faith_n already_o disperse_v throughout_o all_o christendom_n in_o the_o hand_n of_o infinite_a protestant_n as_o you_o maintain_v though_o untrue_o that_o in_o those_o time_n they_o be_v can_v be_v gather_v &_o suppress_v without_o any_o remembrance_n thereof_o to_o all_o posterity_n it_o be_v most_o absurd_a but_o to_o furmise_v such_o a_o impossibility_n furthermore_o do_v we_o not_o see_v that_o the_o life_n of_o such_o pope_n which_o can_v be_v less_o warrant_v be_v record_v in_o history_n yet_o extant_a to_o this_o very_a hour_n as_o else_o where_o be_v intimate_v neither_o the_o narration_n of_o they_o either_o be_v or_o can_v ever_o be_v suppress_v how_o then_o can_v we_o be_v persuade_v that_o the_o memory_n of_o this_o suppose_a great_a change_n can_v by_o any_o such_o mean_n be_v cancel_v in_o a_o perpetual_a forgetfulness_n since_o certain_a it_o be_v that_o the_o pope_n if_o possible_a they_o can_v will_v have_v cause_v all_o narration_n touch_v the_o personal_a fault_n of_o their_o predecessor_n to_o have_v be_v utter_o extinguish_v consider_v that_o such_o their_o less_o justifiable_a life_n may_v be_v repute_v by_o many_o to_o be_v no_o small_a blemisne_n to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n such_o a_o improbability_n this_o your_o evasion_n m._n doctor_n involve_v in_o its_o self_n d._n whitaker_n my_o lord_n it_o seem_v you_o be_v very_o dexterous_a in_o ward_n all_o our_o instance_n and_o other_o argument_n above_o produce_v to_o prove_v the_o former_a presume_a change_n but_o imagine_v for_o the_o time_n that_o we_o can_v allege_v out_o of_o any_o now_o extant_a authorize_v history_n example_n of_o any_o know_a innovation_n imagine_v also_o that_o we_o can_v show_v at_o what_o particular_a time_n and_o season_n the_o parcel_n of_o these_o change_n do_v happen_v imagine_v last_o that_o there_o be_v never_o any_o record_n testimony_n or_o write_n in_o which_o these_o change_n be_v register_v yet_o how_o be_v you_o able_a to_o put_v by_o the_o sharp-poynted_n weapon_n of_o scripture_n wherewith_o your_o religion_n be_v mortal_o foil_v we_o know_v that_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o present_a roman_a religion_n be_v repugnant_a to_o the_o holy_a scripture_n to_o which_o only_o we_o appeal_v and_o who_o 1._o ●autarceia_n and_o all_o sufficiency_n be_v defend_v by_o we_o protestant_n the_o sacred_a scripture_n be_v to_o we_o more_o than_o 10._o decaplê_n apologia_fw-la a_o tenfould_v shield_n of_o our_o faith_n this_o i_o say_v we_o know_v and_o consequent_o we_o further_o know_v that_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o romish_a church_n be_v not_o the_o same_o which_o be_v plant_v in_o rome_n by_o the_o apostle_n here_o be_v our_o fortress_n here_o be_v our_o strength_n and_o this_o place_n to_o you_o romanist_n be_v maccessible_a here_o we_o have_v 2._o to_o retòn_n the_o word_n &_o epi_fw-la tèn_fw-fr dianeian_a tóùr_fw-la etóù_fw-fr to_o the_o true_a meaning_n of_o the_o word_n all_o controversy_n be_v to_o be_v refer_v and_o with_o this_o word_n we_o be_v able_a to_o inflict_v 9_o cairian_a p●etèn_fw-fr deadly_a to_o wound_v your_o popish_a religion_n and_o we_o be_v so_o true_o impatrônize_v of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n as_o that_o we_o dare_v pronounce_v with_o the_o apostle_n if_o a_o 1_o angel_n reach_v any_o other_o ghosple_n unto_o you_o then_o that_o which_o we_o have_v preach_v let_v he_o be_v anathema_n for_o qui●velint_fw-la to_o we_o it_o be_v sufficient_a by_o compare_v the_o popish_a opinious_a with_o the_o scripture_n to_o discover_v the_o disparity_n of_o 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sometime_o but_o probable_a neither_o can_v you_o or_o
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to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o it_o faith_n in_o general_a and_o therefore_o the_o less_o probable_a it_o be_v that_o he_o shall_v wr●t_v or_o suffer_v to_o be_v write_v in_o his_o name_n any_o book_n inpugn_v but_o any_o one_o point_n of_o that_o religion_n i_o will_v relate_v the_o word_n of_o hospinian_n the_o protestant_n touch_v his_o affection_n to_o the_o catholic_a faith_n thus_o be_v say_v sacrament_n carolus_n magnus_fw-la nonsolum_fw-la publicis_fw-la edictis_fw-la etc._n etc._n charles_n the_o great_a do_v not_o only_o command_v by_o public_a edict_n that_o the_o ceremony_n rite_n the_o latin_a mass_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o other_o decresse_n and_o institut_n of_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n shall_v be_v observe_v through_o out_o the_o whole_a empire_n but_o also_o himself_o do_v force_v the_o church_n to_o these_o observation_n under_o pain_n of_o impresonment_n and_o other_o kind_n of_o punishment_n with_o who_o also_o conspire_v in_o judgement_n 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this_o book_n write_v so_o doubtful_o and_o intricate_o of_o the_o real_a presence_n use_v the_o word_n figure_n spiritual_a and_o mystery_n with_o such_o qualification_n as_o that_o no_o strong_a argument_n against_o the_o real_a presence_n can_v be_v draw_v from_o thence_o yea_o which_o be_v more_o this_o book_n so_o much_o favour_v the_o real_a presence_n as_o that_o the_o centurist_n 212._o do_v thus_o censure_v of_o it_o transubstantiationis_fw-la semina_fw-la habet_fw-la bertramus_fw-la the_o book_n of_o bertram_n have_v in_o it_o the_o seed_n of_o transubstantiation_n second_o the_o catholic_a writer_n of_o those_o time_n as_o hospinian_n relate_v at_o large_a do_v honour_n 317._o bertram_n as_o a_o holy_a martyr_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n how_o then_o be_v it_o probable_a that_o bertram_n shall_v write_v a_o book_n against_o one_o of_o the_o chief_a article_n defend_v &_o believe_v by_o the_o say_a church_n thus_o far_o of_o bertram_n touch_v vlricke_n who_o be_v bishop_n of_o augusta_n who_o be_v urge_v for_o a_o protestant_n in_o that_o it_o be_v suppose_v he_o shall_v write_v a_o epistle_n to_o pope_n nicolas_n in_o behalf_n of_o priest_n marriage_n and_o print_v late_o at_o basill_n we_o reply_v that_o by_o force_n of_o all_o reason_n this_o epistle_n be_v but_o forge_v by_o some_o enemy_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o his_o name_n and_o be_v write_v diverse_a year_n after_o pope_n nicolas_n be_v dead_a or_o before_o that_o vlrick_n be_v bear_v for_o as_o onuphrius_n pontif._n write_v pope_n nicolas_n the_o first_o to_o who_o it_o be_v suppose_v vlrick_n shall_v write_v be_v elect_v pope_n anno_fw-la 858._o enjoy_v the_o same_o nine_o year_n and_o two_o month_n &_o die_v anno_o 867._o whereas_o vlrick_n be_v not_o make_v bishop_n of_o augusta_n till_o anno_fw-la 924._o which_o be_v after_o the_o death_n of_o pope_n nicolas_n and_o he_o contemn_v bishop_n fifty_o year_n die_v anno_o 973._o of_o which_o point_n we_o may_v read_v vspergensis_n chronico_fw-la cytraeus_fw-la chronico_fw-la &_o pantaleon_n chronico_fw-la d._n reynolds_n but_o what_o say_v you_o michaeas_n touch_v burengarius_n i_o hope_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o that_o he_o impugn_a the_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n michaeas_n i_o come_v to_o burengarius_n who_o live_v anno_o 1051._o and_o be_v archdeacon_n of_o angiers_n who_o be_v challenge_v for_o a_o protestant_n for_o his_o denial_n of_o transubstantiation_n in_o the_o most_o bless_a sacrament_n of_o the_o eucharist_n i_o answer_v first_o it_o be_v true_a that_o for_o a_o time_n he_o impugn_a the_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n yet_o afterward_o he_o recant_v 13._o his_o heresy_n therein_o and_o die_v most_o catholic_a in_o that_o article_n second_o i_o answer_v that_o this_o heretick-catholicke_a berengarius_fw-la do_v hold_v diverse_a error_n even_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o oecolampadius_n 710._o the_o protestant_n who_o thus_o write_v of_o he_o berengarius_fw-la non_fw-la nulla_fw-la affirmat_fw-la adversus_fw-la baptismum_fw-la parnulorum_fw-la &_o coniugium_fw-la berengarius_fw-la affirm_v diverse_a thing_n against_o the_o baptism_n of_o infant_n and_o marriage_n and_o again_o damnata_fw-la 812._o est_fw-la berengarij_fw-la opinio_fw-la sacerdotio_fw-la christiano_n parum_fw-la minus_fw-la tribuens_fw-la the_o opinion_n of_o berengarius_fw-la be_v condemn_v which_o ascribe_v over_o little_a to_o christian_a priesthood_n also_o papir_n masson_n roberto_n in_o his_o annal_n of_o france_n write_v that_o berengarius_fw-la and_o his_o follower_n deny_v the_o grace_n of_o baptism_n deny_v that_o man_n commit_v mortal_a sin_n can_v ever_o obtain_v pardon_n and_o further_o that_o berengarius_fw-la be_v a_o enemy_n to_o marriage_n thus_o much_o of_o berengarius_fw-la his_o own_a and_o his_o follower_n heresye_n though_o himself_o before_o his_o death_n according_a to_o the_o judgement_n of_o certain_a catholic_a writer_n recant_v his_o heresye_n but_o m._n d._n and_o you_o gentleman_n i_o will_v conclude_v this_o passage_n with_o recur_v to_o one_o observation_n above_o set_v down_o suppose_v therefore_o for_o the_o time_n that_o these_o former_a book_n be_v doubtful_a but_o true_o pen_v by_o the_o author_n under_o who_o name_n they_o go_v suppose_v also_o that_o berengarius_fw-la have_v never_o recant_v his_o heresy_n in_o deny_v of_o transubstantiation_n suppose_v final_o that_o you_o may_v allege_v diverse_a other_o sectarye_n hold_v this_o or_o that_o point_n of_o protestancy_n yet_o what_o can_v all_o this_o convince_v it_o can_v never_o prove_v any_o visibility_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n see_v all_o these_o thus_o admit_v be_v but_o the_o example_n of_o one_o or_o other_o private_a man_n who_o be_v original_o catholic_a and_o after_o embrace_v some_o one_o or_o two_o point_n of_o protestancy_n still_o remain_v in_o all_o other_o article_n whole_o catholic_a and_o therefore_o i_o much_o commend_v the_o ingenuity_n of_o d._n fulke_n 34._o herein_o who_o foresee_v the_o impertinency_n of_o these_o example_n of_o bertram_n berergarius_n and_o those_o other_o reject_v they_o in_o these_o
power_n of_o magistrate_n do_v arm_v the_o subject_n against_o their_o france_n in_o these_o case_n etc._n etc._n and_o further_o beza_n m_o roundly_o teach_v what_o reason_n have_v christian_n to_o obey_v he_o that_o be_v satan_n slave_n and_o yet_o speak_v more_o of_o that_o book_n of_o beza_n he_o say_v a_o book_n 98._o which_o overthrow_v in_o effect_n all_o authority_n of_o christian_a magistrate_n to_o contract_v this_o point_n touchinge_v beza_n beza_n himself_o thus_o write_v in_o one_o of_o his_o epistle_n to_o a_o friend_n of_o he_o p●rplace●_n 68_o mihi_fw-la etc._n etc._n it_o please_v i_o very_o much_o that_o you_o write_v that_o private_a conuent_v and_o assembly_n be_v to_o be_v make_v without_o the_o authority_n of_o prince_n and_o again_o in_o the_o say_a epistle_n si_fw-mi pijs_fw-la semper_fw-la expectandum_fw-la putas_fw-la dum_fw-la lupi_fw-la ultro_fw-la cedant_fw-la etc._n etc._n if_o you_o think_v we_o must_v stay_v the_o delay_n of_o godly_a man_n till_o the_o woul●es_n do_v free_o depart_v or_o be_v drive_v away_o by_o publyke_a authority_n i_o can_v yield_v to_o your_o judgement_n therein_o etc._n etc._n and_o if_o we_o have_v make_v such_o delay_n what_o church_n shall_v we_o have_v have_v at_o this_o day_n thus_o far_o of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o calvin_n and_o beza_n in_o this_o point_n concern_v both_o which_o in_o general_a i_o will_v set_v down_o the_o judgement_n of_o therefore_o name_v d._n bancroft_n pass_v upon_o they_o both_o who_o thus_o write_v he_o that_o 42._o shall_v read_v m._n caluin_n and_o m._n bezaes_n two_o book_n of_o epistle_n etc._n etc._n will_v certain_o marvel_v to_o understand_v into_o what_o action_n and_o deal_n they_o put_v themselves_o of_o war_n of_o peace_n of_o subjection_n of_o reformation_n without_o stay_v for_o the_o magistrate_n thus_o he_o next_o we_o will_v come_v to_o knox_n who_o thus_o teach_v reformation_n 50._o of_o religion_n belorge_v to_o the_o communality_n 343._o god_n have_v appoint_v the_o nobility_n to_o bridle_v the_o inordinate_a appetits_fw-fr of_o prince_n 371._o prince_n for_o just_a cause_n may_v be_v depose_v final_o knox_n further_o avouch_v in_o these_o word_n 76._o if_o prince_n be_v tyrant_n against_o god_n and_o his_o truth_n their_o subject_n be_v free_v from_o the_o oath_n of_o obedience_n of_o all_o which_o passage_n of_o kno●see_n d._n bancroft_n in_o his_o book_n of_o dangerous_a position_n neither_o his_o colleague_n bucanan_n be_v less_o spare_a herein_o for_o thus_o he_o teach_v the_o 13._o people_n have_v right_a to_o bestow_v the_o crown_n at_o their_o pleasure_n and_o yet_o with_o ●at_a more_o debase_v spite_n he_o thus_o egurgi●ates_v his_o venom_n it_o 40._o be_v good_a that_o reward_n be_v appoint_v by_o the_o people_n for_o such_o 〈◊〉_d shall_v kill_v tyrant_n as_o common_o there_o be_v for_o those_o which_o have_v kill_v vulue_n final_o bucanan_n affirm_v that_o people_n 62._o may_v arraign_v their_o prince_n now_o in_o regard_n of_o these_o impious_a position_n of_o knox_n and_o bucanan_n i_o full_o approve_v and_o allow_v the_o grave_a sentence_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o rochester_n who_o in_o his_o sermon_n ●606_n at_o pool_n church_n term_v these_o two_o man_n the_o two_o fiery_a spirit_n of_o the_o church_n and_o nation_n of_o scotland_n vicechancelour_a michaeas_n notwithstanding_o what_o you_o here_o have_v allege_v touch_v stranger_n yet_o no_o part_n thereof_o concern_v the_o church_n of_o england_n or_o it_o member_n our_o church_n remain_v most_o incontaminate_a f●ee_o and_o spotless_a from_o the_o lest_o touch_fw-mi of_o disloyalty_n and_o therefore_o what_o be_v by_o you_o as_o yet_o hearesaid_a concern_v we_o little_a you_o only_o discover_v your_o ignorance_n in_o misapply_v other_o man_n doctrine_n to_o we_o who_o whole_o disclaim_v from_o the_o same_o michaeas_n m._n vicechancelour_n pardon_v i_o if_o i_o here_o do_v say_v you_o charge_v my_o ignorance_n with_o great_a ignorance_n for_o first_o be_v not_o your_o protestant_n of_o england_n of_o the_o same_o faith_n and_o religion_n with_o luther_n sw●nglius_n calvin_n beza_n and_o the_o other_o above_o mention_v if_o you_o be_v not_o then_o have_v you_o erect_v a_o new_a protestant_a church_n of_o late_a different_a from_o all_o protestant_a church_n afore_o in_o be_v if_o you_o be_v of_o the_o same_o faith_n must_v you_o not_o then_o confess_v that_o your_o religion_n teach_v disobedience_n and_o disloyalty_n to_o your_o prince_n second_o it_o be_v over_o manifest_a that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n i_o speak_v of_o some_o member_n thereof_o only_o &_o not_o of_o all_o do_v stand_v most_o chargeable_a with_o the_o same_o crime_n in_o proof_n of_o which_o point_n i_o will_v produce_v the_o testimony_n of_o your_o former_a archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n d._n bancroft_n who_o in_o one_o of_o his_o book_n thus_o confess_v of_o english_a minister_n concern_v this_o point_n say_v i_o omit_v 48._o their_o desperate_a course_n of_o depose_v prince_n and_o put_v they_o to_o death_n in_o diverse_a case_n of_o resistance_n against_o reformation_n the_o general_a sum_n be_v this_o that_o if_o the_o sovereign_a magistrate_n refuse_v to_o admit_v it_o the_o minister_n the_o inferior_a magistrate_n the_o people_n etc._n etc._n may_v set_v it_o o●_n foo●e_v themselves_o of_o these_o and_o such_o like_a argument_n diverse_a book_n he_o meaning_n make_v by_o english_a protestant_n be_v allow_v by_o the_o minister_n of_o geneva_n to_o be_v there_o then_o print_v in_o english_a and_o to_o be_v publish_v in_o england_n etc._n etc._n and_o again_o the_o say_a archbishop_n in_o a_o other_o of_o his_o book_n speak_v of_o the_o seditious_a english_a protestant_n in_o queen_n maryes_fw-mi time_n thus_o write_v goodman_n 34._o whitingam_fw-la gilby_n the_o author_n of_o the_o book_n of_o obedience_n with_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o geneva_n complice_n in_o queen_n maryes_fw-mi day_n urge_v all_o state_n by_o degree_n rather_o to_o take_v arm_n and_o to_o reform_v religion_n themselves_o then_o to_o suffer_v such_o idolatry_n &_o superstition_n remain_v in_o the_o land_n but_o to_o descend_v more_o particular_o to_o this_o goodman_n he_o be_v a_o forward_a protestan●_n in_o queen_n maryes_fw-mi time_n &_o do_v write_v a_o book_n of_o this_o very_a subject_n as_o d._n bancroft_n 35._o and_o d._n succliffe_n 192._o affirm_v thus_o hereof_o he_o write_v as_o d._n bancroft_n 35._o allege_v his_o sentence_n if_o 139._o magistrate_n transgress_v god_n law_n and_o command_v other_o to_o do_v the_o like_a then_o have_v they_o lo●●_n honour_n and_o obedience_n and_o ought_v no_o more_o to_o be_v take_v for_o magistrate_n but_o to_o be_v examine_v accuse_v condemn_v etc._n etc._n and_o more_o 43._o it_o be_v not_o sufficient_a for_o subject_n not_o to_o ob●y_v the_o wicked_a commandment_n of_o their_o wicked_a prince_n but_o to_o withstand_v they_o also_o and_o yet_o more_o plain_o evil_a 145._o prince_n ought_v by_o the_o law_n of_o god_n to_o be_v depose_v to_o abbrevate_v this_o unpleasing_a subject_n there_o be_v also_o in_o the_o say_a time_n a_o other_o book_n make_v against_o the_o authority_n of_o prince_n and_o entitle_v of_o obedience_n which_o book_n be_v much_o dislike_v by_o d._n bancroft_n 36._o and_o d._n succliffe_n 71._o in_o which_o book_n we_o thus_o read_v king_n 25._o have_v their_o authority_n from_o the_o people_n and_o by_o occasion_n the_o people_n may_v take_v it_o away_o again_o and_o more_o by_o 110._o the_o word_n of_o god_n in_o a_o manifest_a defection_n mean_v of_o faith_n and_o religion_n a_o private_a man_n have_v some_o special_a inward_a motion_n may_v kill_v a_o tyrant_n mark_v you_o not_o how_o he_o do_v raviliac_n it_o and_o final_o it_o 103._o be_v lawful_a to_o kill_v wicked_a king_n and_o tyrant_n but_o i_o will_v wade_v no_o further_o in_o this_o argument_n for_o i_o much_o fear_n that_o the_o afore_o unheard_a and_o now_o unexpected_a recital_n of_o the_o former_a protestant_n doctrine_n be_v most_o displease_v to_o the_o ear_n of_o this_o honourable_a judge_n only_o i_o must_v note_v that_o among_o the_o above_o mention_v protestant_n some_o do_v speak_v with_o more_o respect_n and_o honour_n of_o prince_n other_o with_o a●●_n contempt_n and_o disgrace_n yet_o all_o of_o they_o allege_v do_v with_o one_o &_o the_o same_o eye_n or_o countenance_n indifferent_o look_v upon_o this_o principle_n to_o wit_n that_o prince_n in_o some_o case_n may_v be_v depose_v such_o a_o dispacity_n we_o find_v in_o this_o their_o general_o acknowledge_a conclusion_n so_o in_o the_o portraiture_n of_o diverse_a man_n face_n we_o observe_v great_a disproportion_n in_o one_o and_o the_o same_o proportion_n lord-cheife_a justice_n michaeas_n i_o must_v confess_v that_o these_o doctrine_n of_o the_o former_a learned_a protestant_n touch_v the_o depose_n of_o prince_n be_v most_o strange_a and_o indeed_o distasteful_a unto_o i_o but_o it_o well_o may_v be_v that_o
church_n be_v teach_v as_o true_a and_o warrantable_a doctrine_n by_o diverse_a learned_a protestant_n as_o by_o cempnitius_n 33._o by_o luther_n 12._o and_o brentius_n jacobus_n 39_o andreas_n etc._n etc._n but_o now_o i_o will_v conclude_v this_o discourse_n touch_v image_n with_o a_o most_o authentical_a and_o strange_a miracle_n wrought_v by_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n and_o record_v by_o 14._o eusebius_n mathaei_n theophilact_fw-mi and_o 20._o zozemene_n all_o ancient_a &_o grave_a writer_n who_o authoritye_n herein_o if_o we_o reject_v we_o reject_v by_o the_o same_o reason_n the_o proof_n of_o all_o other_o thing_n record_v by_o ancient_a historiographer_n it_o be_v this_o the_o woman_n who_o our_o saviour_n cure_v of_o the_o bloody_a flux_n cause_v to_o be_v make_v a_o brazen_a image_n of_o christ_n at_o the_o foot_n whereof_o do_v spring_v a_o strange_a herb_n the_o which_o herb_n after_o it_o do_v ascend_v so_o high_a as_o to_o touch_v the_o scirt_n of_o the_o image_n it_o have_v virtue_n to_o cure_v all_o disease_n which_o virtue_n no_o doubt_n god_n will_v not_o have_v impart_v to_o the_o herb_n but_o only_o in_o manifestation_n that_o due_a respect_n may_v lawful_o be_v give_v to_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n and_o thus_o far_o touch_v the_o catholic_a doctrine_n of_o image_n touch_v prayer_n to_o saint_n touchinge_v prayer_n to_o saint_n i_o will_v deliver_v the_o catholic_a doctrine_n thereof_o in_o certain_a proposition_n which_o proposition_n may_v searue_v as_o certain_a gradual_a stips_fw-la or_o degree_n of_o this_o controversye_n the_o first_o proposition_n may_v be_v this_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o pray_v to_o saint_n as_o author_n or_o principal_a dispensour_n of_o divine_a benefit_n to_o obtain_v from_o they_o either_o grace_n or_o glory_n or_o the_o mean_n of_o obtain_v our_o eternal_a felicity_n much_o less_o the_o crawne_v of_o glory_n or_o heaven_n itself_o since_o in_o this_o sense_n to_o pray_v to_o they_o be_v according_a to_o the_o judgement_n of_o s._n austin_n ult._n and_o all_o catholic_n to_o make_v saint_n go_n and_o therefore_o if_o at_o any_o time_n the_o word_n direct_v to_o saint_n shall_v sound_v otherwise_o as_o when_o we_o say_v our_o lady_n help_v i_o etc._n etc._n we_o be_v hear_v to_o insist_v in_o the_o sense_n not_o in_o the_o naked_a word_n that_o be_v our_o lady_n help_v i_o by_o her_o intercession_n and_o prayer_n to_o her_o son_n and_o no_o otherwise_o even_o as_o we_o find_v that_o s._n paul_n say_v of_o himself_o illis_fw-la if_o i_o may_v save_v some_o of_o they_o meaning_n of_o the_o gentill_n and_o again_o the_o say_a apostle_n say_v of_o himself_o to_o saluos_fw-la all_o man_n i_o be_o become_v all_o thing_n that_o i_o may_v save_v all_o meaning_n to_o save_v all_o not_o as_o god_n but_o only_o healp_v they_o and_o further_a their_o salvation_n by_o his_o preach_n to_o they_o and_o by_o his_o prayer_n for_o they_o which_o word_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v true_o understand_v may_v sear●e_v well_o to_o stop_v the_o mouth_n of_o the_o protestant_a minister_n for_o their_o often_o mistake_v and_o misinterpret_v of_o the_o catholic_a doctrine_n touch_v prayer_n to_o saint_n the_o second_o proposition_n saint_n be_v not_o our_o immediate_a mediator_n by_o way_n of_o intercession_n with_o god_n but_o whatsoever_o they_o demand_n or_o obtain_v of_o god_n for_o we_o they_o demand_v and_o obtain_v it_o through_o christ_n and_o his_o merit_n and_o according_a hearto_fw-la we_o find_v that_o all_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v make_v to_o saint_n end_v with_o this_o clause_n per_fw-la christum_fw-la dominum_fw-la nostrum_fw-la for_o we_o willing_o acknowledge_v 14._o that_o no_o man_n come_v to_o the_o father_n by_o the_o son_n and_o that_o their_o be_v but_o one_o mediator_n of_o redemption_n though_o all_o the_o saint_n may_v be_v term_v our_o mediator_n by_o way_n of_o intercession_n the_o three_o proposition_n the_o saint_n which_o reigue_n with_o christ_n do_v pray_v for_o we_o and_o this_o not_o only_o in_o general_n but_o in_o particular_a that_o be_v for_o particular_a man_n and_o for_o the_o particular_a necessity_n of_o the_o same_o men._n this_o be_v prove_v first_o from_o those_o word_n in_o jeremy_n 15._o if_o moses_n and_o samuel_n shall_v stand_v before_o i_o my_o soul_n be_v not_o towards_o this_o people_n from_o whence_o it_o be_v infer_v that_o moses_n and_o samuel_n then_o be_v dead_a might_n and_o be_v accustom_v to_o pray_v for_o the_o people_n of_o israel_n second_o the_o same_o be_v prove_v from_o the_o example_n of_o angel_n who_o do_v pray_v for_o we_o and_o have_v a_o care_n of_o we_o in_o particular_a as_o appear_v out_o of_o several_a passage_n of_o 8._o scripture_n but_o if_o the_o angel_n do_v pray_v for_o we_o then_o much_o more_o saint_n see_v so_o far_o forth_o as_o appertain_v to_o this_o function_n nothing_o be_v want_v to_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n which_o angel_n have_v for_o they_o be_v endue_v with_o intelligence_n or_o understanding_n and_o with_o will_n they_o be_v ever_o in_o the_o presence_n of_o god_n they_o love_v we_o vehement_o and_o final_o they_o 20._o be_v equal_a even_o with_o angel_n beside_o some_o privilege_n they_o have_v in_o this_o point_n which_o be_v want_v in_o angel_n to_o wit_n that_o saint_n be_v more_o conjoin_v and_o unite_a member_n of_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o they_o have_v try_v our_o danger_n and_o misery_n which_o angel_n have_v not_o three_o the_o former_a proposition_n be_v prove_v from_o the_o many_o apparition_n of_o saint_n which_o have_v evident_o testify_v that_o they_o do_v pray_v for_o we_o even_o in_o particular_a of_o diverse_a such_o particular_a apparition_n see_v 5._o eusebius_n mortuis_fw-la austin_n manante_fw-la basill_n julianun_n gregory_n nazianzen_n ●a●●ens_n gregory_n nyslene_n and_o 24._o theodoret_n all_o which_o testimony_n of_o so_o ancient_a and_o reverend_a father_n to_o reject_v touch_v matter_n of_o fact_n by_o answer_v that_o all_o such_o relation_n be_v fabulous_a be_v in_o effect_n and_o by_o necessary_a inference_n to_o take_v away_o all_o authority_n of_o ecclesiastical_a and_o humane_a history_n the_o four_o and_o last_o proposition_n saint_n and_o angel_n be_v religious_o and_o profitable_o invoke_v and_o pray_v unto_o by_o live_v men._n this_o be_v prove_v first_o we_o read_v that_o jacob_n blessing_n the_o son_n of_o joseph_n thus_o say_v the_o ●8_o angel_n which_o have_v deliur_v i_o from_o all_o evil_a bless_v these_o child_n where_o we_o see_v that_o jacob_n express_o invoke_v these_o angel_n again_o we_o read_v thus_o in_o job._n call_v 5._o if_o any_o will_n answer_v thou_o and_o turn_v to_o some_o of_o the_o saint_n where_o by_o the_o word_n saint_n he_o mean_v angel_n according_a to_o the_o exposition_n of_o saint_n austin_n job._n second_o this_o last_o proposition_n be_v prove_v from_o that_o that_o in_o both_o the_o testament_n the_o live_v be_v invoke_v and_o pray_v unto_o by_o live_v as_o in_o the_o first_o book_n of_o the_o king_n and_o in_o the_o last_o of_o job._n 7._o in_o like_a sort_n in_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o roman_n s._n pauli_n thus_o say_v 15._o brethren_n i_o beseach_v you_o that_o you_o all_o help_v i_o in_o your_o prayer_n for_o i_o to_o god_n which_o kind_a of_o prayer_n the_o apostle_n use_v in_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o 6._o ephesian_n in_o the_o first_o to_o the_o 5._o thessalonian_n in_o the_o second_o 3._o to_o the_o thessalonian_n in_o his_o epistle_n to_o the_o 4._o colossian_n &_o to_o the_o 13._o hebrew_n so_o familiar_a and_o usual_a be_v this_o to_o s._n paul_n therefore_o from_o hence_o i_o conclude_v that_o now_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o invoke_v and_o pray_v to_o the_o say_a man_n be_v now_o saint_n and_o reign_v with_o christ_n this_o inference_n be_v most_o necessary_a &_o demonstrative_a for_o if_o it_o be_v not_o now_o lawful_a to_o pray_v to_o they_o it_o be_v either_o because_o the_o saint_n now_o in_o heaven_n will_v not_o help_v we_o with_o their_o intercession_n to_o god_n but_o this_o be_v not_o so_o see_v the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n enjoy_v great_a charity_n than_o they_o have_v hear_v upon_o earth_n or_o else_o in_o that_o the_o saint_n can_v help_v we_o with_o their_o prayer_n and_o this_o less_o true_a for_o if_o they_o can_v afore_o help_v we_o with_o their_o prayer_n they_o be_v then_o but_o pilgrim_n much_o more_o now_o they_o be_v arryve_v into_o their_o country_n or_o else_o because_o they_o do_v not_o know_v what_o we_o pray_v or_o demand_v of_o they_o but_o this_o be_v false_a for_o look_v from_o whence_o the_o angel_n do_v know_v the_o conversion_n of_o sinner_n for_o which_o they_o so_o much_o rejoice_v in_o heaven_n as_o we_o read_v in_o s._n 〈◊〉_d luke_n from_o the_o same_o source_n or_o wellspring_n