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A53346 Amsterdam: toleration, or no toleration in a discourse between conformists, non-conformists, papists, Anabaptists, Quakers, &c. In their own words, before a gracious king, about the extent of a Christian indulgence to all dissenters. By J.V.C.O. A friend to men of all religions. J. V. C. O. 1663 (1663) Wing O2A; ESTC R207624 19,722 59

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who onely for a great while appeared against your just power in that affair B. Gauden Nay it is your interest to take care of Religion so for that the happiness of your Kingdom doth depend upon the purity of Religion and the peace of the Church in which they are so bound up as Jacobs soul was in Benjamin that they live and die together and therefore all wise Governours have still countenanced the publick exercise of that Religion which they owned and established as best King How may I exercise this power to restrain those who maintain some Opinions contrary to the established way B. Gauden You may restrain all that are heterodox 1. By Ecclesiastical Discipline Admonitions Reproofs and Censures and 2. where that is despised you may restrain them by the power of the Sword in your own hand as one that not onely regards the civil peace of your subjects but also that trust which lieth on you to take care of their religious interests and their souls welfare that they may be taught and preserved in the right way of knowing and serving God Libertine I hope you will not force our consciences King I cannot force your consciences Libertine You do it when you impose upon us such things as we cannot in conscience admit of King When I impose any thing you cannot submit to you may chuse whether you obey me in doing it onely if your consciences cannot do it you are to suffer for your conscience Anabaptist How can you punish us for our consciences King I punish you not for your consciences but for what I think in my conscience is such an errour as I dare not tolerate in my Dominions Quaker p. 38. How wilt thou answer before the Lord for oppressing his servants that hold the Word of Gods patience under pretence of errour when thou thinkest thou punishest errour and erroneous persons the truth and children of God may lie a bleeding King As you so I must do my duty according to my conscience in conscience I am bound to suppress what I really think is an errour and if I mistake I hope it will please God that I have followed my conscience and that he will pardon my miscarriage insomuch as I did it ignorantly as St. Paul who saith of himself I verily thought with my self that I ought to do many things contrary to the Name of Jesus which thing I also did in Jerusalem and many of the Saints did I shut up in prison and I punished them oft in every Synagogue or Assembly and being exceedingly mad against them I persecuted them even unto strange cities Sir H. Vane p. 113. O the Lord Jesus hath purchased an universal freedom for all men to walk according to the light of their own consciences Who art thou O man that judgest another mans servant Mr. Finch p. 14. It is not likely that the Lord Jesus who came into the world to bring all men to the pure Religion and undefiled before God should purchase an universal freedom for men to be of what Religion they pleased It is not likely that he who prayed that all his Disciples might be one should purchase them an universal liberty to be so many men so many minds Dr. Hammond p. 317. It 's true one private man cannot judge another but a Magistrate may All men are Gods servants to be judged by him and he hath committed all judgement to the Son who hath committed all judgement in any Nation to those supreme Magistrates whom he hath appointed over that Nation who are to execute the judgements of righteousness and truth as those who judge not for man but for the Lord. Papist How is it possible for you to judge anothers opinion seeing you are not infallible you are assured no more that it is a truth then I am King What I venture my salvation upon I may venture my Government upon what I am so far assured of that I throw mine own soul upon it I am so far assured of as to lay my whole duty upon it I am not infallible sure that I have the truth yet I am infallible sure that I ought to own that which I apprehend to be a truth I judge not your opinion but mine own which I think so much a truth of God that though you have liberty of conscience to think what you please of my opinion yet I must not allow a liberty of practice to do what you please against it as in my Dominions I ought not to suffer you to do any thing which I think against that God that hath restored me to my Dominions Certainly all humane judgement is subject unto errour and unless you will take away all humane judgement out of the world you must acquiesce in the highest whose errours are to be reserved to the judgement of God Anabaptist Are not you worms of the earth as well as we why should you be Lords over our Faith Chancellour If you have Faith have it to your self we are not Lords over your Faith but over our own we wish you all had the true Faith but you may notwithstanding believe what you please according to the Faith you have but you must not practise what you please against the Faith we have and ought to maintain L.B.C. You are Worms appointed of God to obey and the Magistrates are Worms appointed of God to command Libertine Alas we cannot follow this or that Way of yours if we would until the Lord hath revealed it unto us King And I cannot allow this or that Way of yours unless God hath revealed it unto me Seeker Paul who never judged amiss had so much meekness in him as to conceit if any one in this or that particular thought otherwise then himself that God either had or would reveal it to him and so abstained from censuring when as you condemn all that think not as you do Mr. Baxter p. 118. Paul who wished them to wait until God revealed to them what they knew not never allowed them a liberty to practice contrary to what they knew not B. Ferne p. 17. Yes the Apostle there wisheth them to live according to what they professed in common with others and if any was otherwise minded he should not presently follow his own mind and walk in his own way but wait until the Lord reveals it Libertine By forcing us you may make us Hypocrites but not real Converts to your way Secretary p. 18. Indeed we hope so well of you that we think you would not dissemble a Religion for any hardships in the world and we must assure you that we do not use force to convert you to our way but to clear our selves from any allowance of your way we use Reason to convert you we use Force onely to clear our selves The Indifferent If it be in mine own power to be in the right you cannot tell but that I am so if it be Gods work you cannot blame me if I am not his gifts are free