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A39570 The bishop busied beside the business, or, That eminent overseer, Dr. John Gauden, Bishop of Exeter, so eminently overseen as to wound his own cause well nigh to death with his own weapon in his late so super-eminently-applauded appearance for the [brace] liberty of tender consciences, legitimacy of solemn swearings, entituled, A discourse concerning publick oaths, and the lawfulness of swearing in judicial proceedings, in order to answer the scruples of the Quakers ... / by Samuel Fisher ... Fisher, Samuel, 1605-1665. 1662 (1662) Wing F1051; ESTC R37345 155,556 170

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offending of a good Conscience we can in no wise submit to so that whatever he would seem to grant yet all the Liberty to the utmost he is really willing should be granted us is only his and his Brethrens intimating to us what is their mind and Iudgement in Religious matters and the Enacting of some outward Law to require our Conformity upon the not yielding of which we are to be supprest by Coercions and Penalties as resisters of softer applications as affronters of setled Religion as obstructers of the proceedings of Iustice by Established Lawes And this is that cuncta prius tentanda which he is for all the appeal that he will allow we being now in his judgement unexcusable because we cannot see with his ey●…s and this is his Quid amplius peteram what could I have done more and these are all the Lenitives he affords us before Lancings and Fomentations before incisions or amputations and no other remedy before rigor and severity so that now upon meer non-submission to his and his Brethrens Counsell which yet was never at all ministred to us any other way then in this his book thrust forth above a month after the Date of the late sharp Act against us it is not to be reckoned any more the scratch of a Petty Opinion but the Gangreen of an obstinate and rebellions humour which forceth the abscision under pretence of preventing a deadly Contagion to the whole body But blessed be the Lord they who are made partakers of his saving health as we are through his goodness and mercy need none of these Episcopall paternal Remedies for such are under the Cure of the great Shepherd Overseer or Bishop of their Souls who will make the wrath of men turn to his praise and the remainder of it will then restrain Bish. Again it is yet further manifested what the Bishop intends by Liberty and softer Applications unto dissenters from the Religion established by outwara Lawes in the next page wherein he declares how he would have them as no better then Layers of the Fou●…dations of Distractions Division Destruction and Confusion to be deprived of all publick Countenance and Encouragement and of the protection of the Lawes of the Favour of Princes and not only of publick Maintenance and Honour but also of the use of publick Churches as he calls them and Oratories of publick Offices and Employments of Honour and Authority forreign and domestick Eclesiastical Civil and Military and all such like advantages which he would have appropriated only to themselves as their proper Honoraries who can Conform to whatsoever Religion by Law may be established Answ. As for the Advantages of publick Maintenance and Honour and those Ecclesiastical Offices Imployments and Preferments which pertain to those publick Places which they call Churches we neither look nor seek after them but leave them to those Ministers who look more after the Eleece then the Flock unto whom the Hon●…s is more desireable then the Onus and the Benefice prized beyond the Office of the Ministry Nevertheless sith the Bishop would have Dissenters deprived not only of these Ecclesiastial but of all other Civil Advantages also we would have him take notice that the Deprivations of all these Priviledges were the Flagellant methods of those most Tyrannous Times which by the Bishops own Confession in his Words before cited to his own Shame Confutation and Confusion for asmuch as he would have the same used and yet would seem to be against them too had nothing of Reason Law or Religion to support them Bish. The Bishop saith further in the next Words thus With these outward Advantages added to that Internal Power of Truth and Holiness which are in the established Religion it may as I think not only be happily supported but easily prevaile against all Factions and feeble Opposition unless the scandal negligence levity and luxury of its Ministers Bishops Presbyters and Professors overthrow it by casting such inmoral disgraces upon it as make People disbelieve and abhorr both it and them as was in the Case of Elies Sons Answ. That is a very weak and crasie Religion indeed which hath not internal Power of Truth and Holiness enough in it to support it and that against but feeble Opposition without the addition of outward Force and the other External Helps 〈◊〉 Advantages before mentioned Whether the Bishops Religion be such a feeble Form or no we leave them to consider and examine but this we are sure of that the true Religion not only hath been and ever will be supported and will prevail without these Advantages and Priviledges but also in the midst of as deep Disadvantages and Deprivations Witness 2. Cor. 4. 8 9. where the Apostle sayes We are troubled on every side yet not Distressed Perplexed but not in despaire Persecuted but not forsaken Cast down but not destroyed 2 Cor. 6. 4 ●… c. in all things approving our selves as the Ministers of God in much Patience in Afflictions in Necessities in Distresses in Stripes in Imprisonments in Tumults c. by Honour and Dishonour by Evil Report and Good Report as Deceivers yet True as Unknown yet well Known as Dying yet behold we Live as Chastened yet not Killed as Sorrowful yet alwayes re●…oycing as Poor yet making many Rich as having nothing yet possessing all things Secondly We observe that the Bishop is very doubtful jealous and fearful and that not altogether surely without a Cause least the Scandal Negligence Levity and Luxury of the Bishops themselves and of the Ministers Presbyters and Professors of it should overthrow their Religion now established But if it had that Internal Power of Truth and Holiness in it as he pretends it hath he need not fear its being disgraced disbelieved abhorred and overthrown by the Wickedness of its own Ministers as he doubts theirs may for the Truth will be honoured believed loved and established ma●…gre not only the Contradictions of Sinners and the Wickedness of all such Bishops Ministers Presbyters and Professors that oppose it but also if all those that profess and promote it in its Power and not in empty Formes only as others do should as God Forbid and as they are never likely at all to do become as Wicked and Negligent as any Prelatical Ministers are and as themselves have once been Faithful and Diligent in the service of it for the true and Pure Religion which is undefiled before God whereby its Children of whom alone its justified are kept unspotted from the World stands not upon the Sandy and Slippery Foundation of outward props and advantages but upon the inward Principle of Gods Power which is the Power of an endless life But the Children of such Religions as how fair so ever they seem before men stand not on that Rock of Ages and are no better stablished then on the outside frivolous Forms of mens Inventions derived downward by Tradition from fore-Fathers without that inward Power of the endless Life
only upon the score of Religion without such an exceptions clause as he intermingles among this his most merciful and pittiful matter whereby he snatches back again all his Christian Charity and Pitty and ingrosseth it onely to himself and his own Party viz. farther then is necessary for the cure of offenders and the Conservation of the publick Peace under which clause of curing offenders and preserving the Publick Peace the very Pope himself who pretends to Pitty and Christian Charity as much in words as the Prelates does not onely Ushers in but secures it self amongst his own Children from the censure of that bloody Tenet of Persecution for cause of Conscience under all that Severity Wrath and Rigor that he hath ever exercised towards those Dissenters from his See and Counsel Chair that have at any time fallen under his Clerical Cruelties Then he would not err on the right hand as he seems to do to himself though in reality he is far from it his Error being yet very much rather on the left but walk uprightly by that right golden Rule of Chaist which he commends but comes not near the Practice of which onely hath in it the true Humanity of a man and the Charity of a Christian viz. to do as he would be done unto for the Primitive Christians did so indeed and as they would not have had the Iewes their own Country-men Persecute them as they did so they never did Persecute any nor would they had they had the outward Power so to do no not Iews that denyed Christ upon the score of that both then and still blasphemous Religion of theirs in order to such an end as the cure of Offenders and preservation of the Publick Peace for they knew 't was the publick preservation of Truth which was the onely thing that would break that Nations publick peace and that nothing was so safe for the Civil Powers and so clearly consistent with their Peace as to let the Truth and its Children alone for the sufferings of which by persecution among them when they had filled up the measure of their fathers who slew the Prophets Wrath at last came upon them to the uttermost But this Bishop who I am sure would have his own way have perfect Liberty would have It and It only to have not onely all Liberty but all outward Emoluments and Advantages also in a way exclusive of all others to whom he would indeed have Facility and Gontleness exercised with abhorency of all Severity and Rigors upon the score of Religion onely yet with this bit in their mouth whereby he can pull in all he gives and grants viz. So far onely but no further than is necessary to the curing of Offenders as he counts all dissenters are in one sence though to go round again some not offending but obeying God in another and than is for the conservation of the publick Peace Neither is he less unrighteous in condemning the Innocent with the guilty and giving Sentence against a People whom he confesses to be as elsewhere he doth possibly of no evil minds at present for what they may be in future time before they are so He would think it unjust if we should say he and his Brethren let them say what they will and speak in never so much simplicity and appear never so harmless yet are not to be trusted in their most innocent smiles on us because as some called Bishops have formerly so these in present being though Facile and Gentle yet may hereafter prove Bloody and Deceitful And thus he manifests himself though called a Father to be not only without Compassion but without the Spirit of Iudgement and a sonnd Mind also and if we were indeed ignorant and out of the way of Truth as we are not we find him not such a High-Priest as is truly touched with the feeling of our Infirmities as knowes how to have compassion on the Ignorant and on such as are out of the Way Nevertheless that he may seem the more excusa●…ble after he hath pleaded seemingly for indulgence in his counterplea for non-indulgence again he covers and coulers himself over very frequently with such pretences as this that followes Bish. The insolent and seditious Expressions that bring 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and violent Actions especially in Pulpits and Presses ought with great Penalties to be suppressed there being nothing more unreasonable than for any man rudely to Blaspheme and Reproach that Religion which his Prince and Country profess Answ To blaspheme and reproach that Religion which the Scripture doth profess to be the true one as Iames 1. and which Christ the King of all Princes of the Earth and his People profess which is to keep unspotted of the World is more unreasonable than to blaspheme that which at a venture a mans Prince and Country Professes for That most assuredly is the true and pure Religion undefiled before God while 't is more then possible that This last may be a false one and by so much the more unreasonable by how much more it 's unreasonable to speak evil of Good than of Evil it self Secondly As to this passage let every other dissenting party as far as they are found Innocent vindicate themselves but if this be spoken with reference to the Quakers to whom the Bishops Book mainly doth relate the thing is sooner said than proved that any such insolent or seditious Expressions from whence as from the Cause thereof any Tumultiousness or Violence hath proceeded have been yet found among the Quakers or that we are found such rude Blasphemers or Reproachers which things we justisie not in any where they are found yet are able to justisie our selves as not guilty of ought that can justly come under such a notion on a true account but since we who look better both to our Spirits and to our Speeches than to give way by either to the sowing of Sedition Tumults Rudeness Blasphemy Reproach or Violence against any men for their Religion are falsely counted as sowers of such things as Blasphemers and Reproachers of that Religion which our Prince and Country do profess for no other Cause then our testifying to the Truth and our publishing that Gospel of Peace that brings out of all War and Strife and for declaring against the meer Traditions and Inventions of men We would know the Bishops mind if he be able to resolve us First Whether his meaning be as his Words here import of every Prince and Country as a Prince and Country as well as of any one without respect to this or that Form of Religion in it If yea Then Secondly Whether will not this Shift serve the chief Priests of the Turke Pope Tartar Pagan and all other Ethnick Princes to their several sorts of Religious People as well as the Bishops of England to say Nothing is more unreasonable than for men to reproach that Religion which their Prince and Country do profess And so Thirdly Whether by consequence this doth
she was under Persecution no eye pittying her to do any of those great things for her which have since been done by Christian Emperours Kings and Princes who have bestowed great Revenues on her But since she hath multiplyed as the bud of the Field is increased and ●…axen great and come to excellent Ornaments her Breasts are fashioned her Hair grown whereas she was naked and bare she is cloa●…hed with broid●…red Work girded about with fine Linnen deckt with Gold and Silver eates fine Flower Honey and Oyl is exceeding Beautiful perfect in 〈◊〉 is attained to Maturity hath a Crown upon her Head and is prospered into a Kingdom and hath changed those earthen Vessels viz. Illitterate Men or meer mean Mechanicks into silver Chalices and golden Cups Academically educated Preachers Scholastick Rabbies and hath ascended beyond the Minority Inferiority Poverty Pusilanimity of those suffering Times And thus Cum Ecclesia peporit divitias silia superavit i. e. in one sense as well as in another devoravit matrem Bish. Possibly the Quakers may in a fit fear and slatter some men in Power c. Answ. The Quakers cannot justly be charged with Flattering of any men or Fearing with that Fear that is consistent with Flattery the Persons of any men in Power This is the Practice of those that seek outward Promotions and Greatness in the World as the Quakers do not for if they could have either fear'd or flattered they had not Suffered what they have hitherto undergone but might have had as many Priviledges and Earthly Advantages as others have their Sufferings being often on no other account but because they could neither Fear nor Flatter as others can who have mens Persons in Admiration meerly for their own Advantage the Persons of such as are in Power so that the Bishop hath under a pretence of Pitty to us not a little wronged us herein also for we believe that if we could eith●… fear or flatter this Bishop and his Bre●…hren we should be better thought of by them then we are And as he hath injured u●… so is he not altogether free in this place of comradiction to himself if experience it self may serve in proof hereof for if Fear and Flattery be as we well know it is that outward respect and Civillity which according to the custom of this Country is used among men most men putting off the Hat Bowing Cringing to Superiors giving flattering Titles upon no other account commonly but either because of Gay Cloaths fear of Frowns or hope of Favour Then the Bishop as well as often elsewhere hath contradicted himself here for as much as he first saith the Quakers resuse to give outward Respect and Civility according to the custom of their Country and yet in the next words saith Possibly the Quakers may Fear and Flatter some men in Power which is that customary Respect and Civillity of the Country which stands well nigh universally in feare and flattery but if they cannot be prov'd to fear and flatter as in truth they cannot then the Bishop must needs be guilty of either ●…alsuy or Self-contradiction seeing the Quakers are free not only from Fear and Flattery whereof he chargeth them but consequently also from denying due Respect to Superiors according to the custom of the Country But whereunto may the Quakers liken this Bishop who is pleased with them neither full nor fasting For when he speaks concerning that plainness and down right demeanour which in Conscience to God and not in contempt of any man we use towards all n●…n This he stiles a Rude Rustical Clownish Levelling Humour in us and denial of common Courtesie and civil Respects to Superiors contrary but falsly as is shewed above to the reverent behaviour of all Gods People in all ages But when he supposes as he doth but falsly of us that in some fit we yield that vain customary and wanted Respect of the Country to men in Power this likes him so little on the other hand that it comes with a censure from him under the Denomination of Fear and Flattery Bish. Page 6. I have seen indeed some of their Papers and received some of their letters written to my self truly not very Rudely nor Malepertly yet with so abrupt and obscure a way so blindly censorious and boldly dictating that saving a few good Words and Godly Phrases in them I found very little of Rational on Scriptrual Demonstration many passages so far from beauty and strength of Religion that they had not the ordinary Symmetry of Reason or the lineaments of common Sense in them at least in m●… apprehension who am wholly a stranger to any Canting or Chimical Divinity which bubbles forth many specious Notions sine Fancies and short liv'd Conceptions floating a little in a●… airy empty Brain but not enduring the firm touch or breath of any serious Iudgement And pag. 7. There appears to me so nothing of an excellent Spirit in them that there is much silliness and never well catechised Ignorance set off with great Confidence an odd way of Folly dressed up with some Scripture Phrases like Sepulchers painted with sweet Flowers and fair Colours but void of any true Life within as convincing of Sin and Error or as vindicating any Truth or necessary point of Duty and Morallity They seem a Busie Petulant Pragmatick sort of People c. a kind of Dreamers Deceiving and Deceived D●…ting in their Rude and Contemptuous Carriage in which is Pride and Ambition c. And pag. 6. Nor is it a smal insolence in them to endeavour in an Age of so mu●…h Light and Learning to Obtrude yea oppose the Rudeness and Silliness of their covetous and crude Fancies against the Prudence Iustice and Piety of this Church and Kingdom Answ. There is a Generation that are pure in their own eyes and yet is not washed from their Filthiness and that is the Generation of such as call themselves Saints in this World yet neither believe they can be nor mean to be so till the World to come There is a Generation Oh! how lofty are their eyes and their eye-lids are lifted up And of this sort were of old those lofty Laodicean Lord Beggars who seemed to themselves to be Rich and increas'd with Goods and to have need of nothing whilst for want of standing in Christ's own Counsel and not buying of him Gold that they might be rich and Rayment that they might be cloathed and not anointing their eyes with that Eye-Salve of his own Spirit of Grace they were indeed however outwardly accomplished inwardly Poor Wretched Miserable Blind and Naked And how far forth the Church of England so called that calleth her self a Queen and her Self-boasting Angel are found in that same loachsome luke-warm temper we leave to her self impartially to examine in the sight of God who seeth all her Works and will unless she be yet more zealous and Repent and open unto Christ while he stands at the Door and Knocks most
neither Wealth nor Wit to Agita●…e with be such Deep Dreadful Agitaters of such grand Iesuitick Arts and Designes as the Undermining of the Peace of Kingdoms Herein the Bishop must quit the Quakers of one or other or of both these his false charges if he will quit himself as a man of Reason and Understanding Either let him say we are Crude Foolish Silly Ignorant Abrupt Unlearned Plain Unpolisht Unwary and so no Iesuites or else falsly as he does that we smel of Iesuits and so are no such Non-sensical Novices as he holds us out to be for his matter is no better than Untempered Morter here and let him Dawb which way he will to make it good and to stand sound yet will it hang together as well but no better then Butter and an hot Oven Bish. As for the Bishop's next squeamish Piece of Delineation of the Quakers which he makes the second ground of his Pitty towards them viz. In that they are a Sect lately bred as Vermine out of the putrid Matter and Corruptions of former Times out of that Spawn and Filth which other Factions cast forth to the Deformity and Confusion of all things and had their Beginning from the very Rabble and Dregs of Unchatechized Undiciplin'd Ungovern'd People in England had their Original and Extraction out of that Squalor Mud and Fedity of Times which destroyed all Fear of God c. Answ. This is such a deformed mess of meer medley and confusion such a pitriful piece of putrid matter Spawn Filth Squalor Mudd Fedity Foul and False Aspersion as we have no mind to Ravel into if we should how easie were it for us to convict it not onely First of much falshood for our first Original and beginning is not as is shewed above from so low and loathsome a Dunghill and Dungeon of dirt and darkness as that rabble and dregs of People of which he sayes we were hatched if we were of that world that world would love her own but because we are not of that sort of men but chosen out from among them therefore that rabble and dregs of People hate us but we are a People born of God from above of the Immortal Seed of his Word and Spirit who hath begotten us back to himself from the Devils Image which once we bare with others that are still in the Degeneration not by an Equivocal Generation but a true Regeneration and renewing of his holy Spirit and our beginning is from him who is the beginning and ●…nd of all things but secondly of much 〈◊〉 also while he makes all that loathsomness which in his Christian Charity and little Love he Loads us withall a ground of his pure pitty to the Quakers for howbeit it manifested the falshood and wickedness of their Adversaries plain enough when the Apostl●…s vvere despised reviled and defamed by them and made as the filth of the world and the s●…um and off-scouring of all things yet it would have savoured of Hypocrisie De●…it and Dissimulation in the abstract should they have pretended to have rendered them thus vile to men in pitty to them so it 's bad enough in the Bishop to bespatter Gods holy People but deceit of a deeper die and guile in grain to pretend in all this he acts in Pitty to them yet behold all this last most putrid part of his Discourse against the Quakers as mulier formosa superne desinit in turpem pisc●… fronts it self under the fair Face specious Form and pre●…ence of Pitty of which pretended Pitty of the Bishop to Quakers his last pretended ground is as followeth Bish. Lastly I pitty them because to me 't is no wonder if they were soared from all Swearing by the frequent forfeited Oaths and repeated Perjuries of those times in which the cruel ambitious and disorderly Spirits of some men like the Demonaicks in the Gospel brake all Bonds of lawful Oaths by which they were bound to God and the King dayly imposing the Super-Foetations of new and illegal Oaths monstrous Vows sactious Covenants desperate Ingagements and damnable Abjurations Poor men the Quakers as well as others had cause to fear least if they took an Oath to day they should to morrow be forced to renounce and abjure it yea to renounce and abjure the undoubted Rights of others to attest even by oath the Usurpation of those as lawful which were most Diametrically contrary to the Laws of God and Man This great Temptation under which the Quakers then lived makes me have much Compassion for them it being not only easie and obvious but venial and almost commendable for them to be carried to an utter aversation from all swearing whatsoever when they saw such desperate abuse and breaking of publick and solemn Oaths in those dismal Dayes Answ. We muse why the Bishop does not as well pitty the Quakers if they be scared from all Swearing by the frequent prop●…am and repeated Prodigions Swearing of these times in which all places are full of Vomit so that there 's no place clean in which the c●…el ●…alitious and disorderly Spirits of many men like the Demo●… in the Gospel break all bonds of those good and wholsomes Lawes against unlawful Oathes from which they are bound but that they obey not by the express Prohibitions both of God and of the King not onely frequently imposing ore and ore again a Superfluity of that Oath of Allegiance which according to the Law of man by which it is pretended to be imposed is as Illegally Imposed upon the Quakers in Reference to whom it was never made as it is Universally omitted and neglected to be imposed on Popish Recusants palpably known so to be in Reference to whom onely and not for the other the said Oath was at first instituted and appointed But also dayly using on all occasions and for the most part without any occasion the Supersoesations of new invented Monstrous Desperate and Damnable kinds of Oathes Iurations Cursings and Execrations Poormen the Quakers as well as others have cause to fear Lest if they take the Oath of Allegiance before some Magistrates in one place for fear of men to day they shall be forced before other Magistrates to reiterate it to Morrow in another since though men can prove they have ●…worn it ost heretofore as some Quakers can and once taking it is as much as by Law can be required of one man yet it shall be required of them again anew as oft as any Magistrate out of malice hath a mind as a snare to make tender thereof unto them And so they must come under the guilt of vain needness common and frequent Swearing and so not onely encourage men by their example to Swear more Consaiently in Courts where they both Swear and for swear themselves already but strengthen the hands of those thousands of wicked Prophane Swearers that they cannot return from that course of wickedness which is Diamerrically contrary to the Lawes of God and man This great