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A38571 Twenty-two select colloquies out of Erasmus Roterodamus pleasantly representing several superstitious levities that were crept into the Church of Rome in his days.; Colloquia. Selections. English Erasmus, Desiderius, d. 1536.; L'Estrange, Roger, Sir, 1616-1704. 1689 (1689) Wing E3213; ESTC R6620 185,131 300

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the Reason that the Good works of Monks caeteris Paribus are more acceptable to God than those of Other People because they spring from that Root Ph. We shall not make it a question in This place the Merit of a mans Dedicating himself wholly to God when he is no longer in his own Power Every Christian as I take it delivers himself up wholly to God in his Baptism when he Renounces the Devil and all his Works the Pomps and Vanities of the Wicked World and all the Sinful Lusts of the Flesh and lists himself a Souldier to fight under Christ's Banner to his Lives End. And St. Paul speaking of those that Die with Christ that they may live no longer to Themselves but to Him that is Dead for them does not mean This of Monks only but of all Christians Th. You have minded me seasonably of our Baptism but in times past if they were but Sprinkled at the last Gasp there was hope yet promis'd them of Salvation Ph. 'T is no great matter what the Bishops promise but it is a matter of great uncertainty what God will vouchsafe to Do For if there went no more to Salvation than the Sprinkling of a little Water what a Gap were there open'd to all sorts of Carnal Appetites and License When men had spent their lives and their strength in Wickedness till they could sin no longer two or three drops of Water would set all Right again Now if the same Rule holds in your Profession and This Baptism it would make well for the Security of the Wicked if they might Live to Satan and Die to Christ. Th. Nay if a man may speak what he hears of the Seraphique Mystery the professing of a Franciscan is more Efficacious than his Baptism Ph. What is 't ye say Th. Only our Sins are wash'd away in Baptism but the Soul tho' it be purg'd is left naked But he that is invested with This Profession is presently endow'd with the Merits and Sanctimony of the whole Order as being Grafted into the Body of the most Holy Sodality Ph. And what do ye think of him that is by Baptism ingrafted into the Body of Christ Is he never the better neither for the Head nor for the Body Th. He 's nothing at all the better for this Seraphique Body unless he entitle himself to it by some special Bounty or Favour Ph. From what Angel I beseech ye had they this Revelation Th. From what Angel do ye say Why St. Francis had This and a great deal more Face to Face from Christ himself Ph. Now as thou hast any kindness for me in the World tell me for the Love of God what were those Discourses Th. Alas those Holy and Profound Secrets are not for Profane Ears Ph. Why Profane I pre'thee For I have ever been a Friend to this Seraphique Order as much as to any other Th. But for all That you give 'em shrewd Wipes sometimes Ph. That 's a sign of Love Theotimus The great Enemies of the Order are the Professors of it Themselves that by Ill Lives bring a scandal upon the Habit. And That man does not love it that is not offended with the Corruptors of it Th. But I 'm afraid St Francis will take it ill if I should blab any of his Secrets Ph. And why should ye fear That from so Innocent a Person Th. Well well But what if I should lose my Eyes or run Mad upon t As I am told m●ny have done only for denying the Print of the Five Wounds Ph. Why then the Saints are worse natur'd in Heaven than they were upon Earth We are told that St. Francis was of so meek a Disposition that when the Boys in the streets would be playing the Rogues with his Cowl as it hung down at his Back and throwing Milk Cheese Dirt Stones at it the Saint walkt on Cheerfull and Pleasant without any Concern at all And shall we believe him Now then to be Chollerique and Revengefull One of his Companions once call'd him Thief Sacrilegious a Murtherer an Incestuous Sot and all the Villains in the world His Reply was only that he gave him thanks and confess'd himself Guilty But one of the Company wondering at such an Acknowledgment I had done worse than all this says St. Francis if God's Grace had not Restrained me How comes St Francis now then to be Vindictive Th. So it is for tho' the Saints will bear any thing upon Earth they 'l take no Affronts in Heaven Was ever any man Gentler than Cornelius Milder than Anthony or more Patient than Iohn the Baptist when they liv'd upon Earth but now they are in Heaven if we do not worship them as we ought what Diseases do they send among us Ph. For my own Part I am of Opinion that they rather Cure our Diseases than Cause them But however assure your self that what ye say to me is spoken to a man that 's neither Profane nor a Blab Th. Go to then I will tell ye in Confidence what I have heard as to this Matter Be it spoken without offence to St. Francis or the Society St. Paul ye know was endu'd with a Profound and Hidden Wisdom which he never publish'd but only whisper'd it in Private to those Christians that were perfected So have these Seraphiques certain Mysteries also that they do not make Common but only communicate them in private to Rich Widows and other Choice and Godly People that are well-willers to the Society Ph. How do I long for the Opening of this Holy Revelation Ph. It was at first foretold by the Lord to the Seraphique Patriarch that the more the Society increased the more Provision he would make for them Ph. So that at first dash Here 's that Complaint answer'd that their Growing so Numerous is a Grievance of the People Th. And then he revealed this further too that upon his Anniversary Festival all the Souls of That Fraternity and not only Those that were of the Clothing but the Souls of their Friends also should be deliver'd from the Fire of Purgatory Ph. But was Christ so familiar with St. Francis Th He was as Free with him as one Friend or Companion is with another As God the Father in former times Communed with Moses Moses receiv'd the Law first from God himself and then deliver'd it to the People Our Saviour published the Gospel and St. Francis had two Copies of his Peculiar Law under the Hands of an Angel which he deliver'd to That S●raphique Fraternity Ph. Now do I look for a Third Revelation Th. That famous Patriarch fearing now that when the Good Seed was sown the Enemy should come while men slept and sowing Tares among the Wheat they should both be pluckt up together St. Francis was eas'd of This Scruple by a Promise from the Lord that he would take Care that this Tribe of Half-shodd and Rope-girt People should never fail so long as the World endur'd Ph. Why what a Merciful
than Feel them THE RELIGIOUS PILGRIMAGE COL II. The Vanity of Pretended Religious Pilgrimages The Virgin-Mothers Epistle to Glaucoplutus complaining of the Decay of Devotion toward the Saints The History of the Canterbury Monastries and the Inestimable Riches of the Church With a Reproof of the Superstition Magnificence and Excesses of the Times The Temple of Thomas Becket his Monument Reliques and Miracles With a pleasant Story of a Purchase of our Ladies Milk at Constantinople notably setting forth the Practices and Corruptions of that Age. MENEDEMUS OGYGIUS Me. WHat have we here The Resurrection of a Body that has been six months in the Grave 'T is the very man. Welcome Ogygius Og. And well met Menedemus Me. From what quarter of the World art thou come For we have all given thee for dead here this many a day Og. And God be thanked I have been as well since I saw thee last as ever I was in my life Me. And may'st thou long live to confute such Stories But what 's the meaning of this Dress I prethee these Shells Images Straw-works Snakes Eggs for Bracelets Og. O! you must know that I have been upon a Visit to St. Iames of Compostella and after that to the famous Lady t'other side the Water in England which in truth was a Re-visit for I had seen her three years before Me. For Curiosity I suppose Og. Nay upon the very score of Religion Me. You 're beholding to the Greeks I presume for that Religion Og. My Wives Mother let me tell you bound her self with a Vow that if her Daughter should be delivered of a live Male Child her Son in Law should go to St. Iames in Person and thank him for 't Me. And did you salute the Saint only in your own and your Mother-in-Laws Name Og. No Pardon me in the Name of the whole Family Me. Truly I am perswaded that your Family would have done every jot as well if you had sav'd your Complement But pray tell me what Answer had you Og. Not a syllable but upon the Tendring of my Present he seem'd to smile and gave me a gentle Nod with this same Scallop-Shell Me. But why that Shell rather then any thing else Og. Because there 's great Plenty of these Shells upon that Coast. Me. A most gracious Saint in the way both of Midwifery and Hospitality But this is a strange way of Vowing for one that does nothing himself to make a Vow that another man shall work Put the Case that you should tie up your self by a Vow to your Saint that if you succeeded in such or such an Affair I should Fast twice a week for so many Months Would I pinch my Guts do ye think to make good your Vow Og. No. I do not believe you would No not if you had made the Vow in your own Name for you would have found some Trick or other to have droll'd it off But you must consider that there was a Mother-in-Law and somewhat of Duty in the Case and Women are Passionate you know and I had an Interest at stake Me. But what if you had not perform'd this Vow now What Risque had you run Og. There would have lyen no Action of the Case but yet the Saint I must confess might have stopt his ears some other time or brought some sly mischief into my Family as people in power you know are Revengeful Me. Prethee tell me How is the good man in Health honest Iames What does he do Og. Why truly matters are come to an ill pass with him to what they were formerly Me. He 's grown Old. Og. Leave your Fooling as if you did not know that Saints never grow old No no 't is long of this new Opinion that is come to be so rife now in the World that he is so little Visited and those that do come give him only a bare Salute and little or nothing else they can bestow their Money to better purpose they say upon those that want it Me. An impious Opinion Og. And this is the reason that this great Apostle that was wont to be cover'd with Gold and Jewels is now brought to the very block he was made of and hardly so much as a Tallow Candle to do him Honour Me. If this be true who knows but in time people may run down the rest of the Saints too Og. Nay I can assure you there goes a strange Letter about from the Virgin-Mary her self that looks untowardly that way Me. Which Mary do you mean Og. She that is called Maria ● Lapide Me. Up toward Basil if I be not mistaken Og. The very same Me. A very Stony Saint But to whom did she write it Og. The Letter tells you the Name too Me. By whom was it sent Og. By an Angel undoubtedly and found in the Pulpit where he Preached to whom it was written And to put the matter out of all Doubt I could shew you the very Original Me. But how do you know the Hand of the Angel that is the Virgins Secretary Og. Well enough Me. But how will you be able to prove it Og. I have compar'd it with Bede's Epitaph that was Engraven by the same Angel and I find them to be perfectly one and the same Writing And I have read the Angels Discharge to St. Aegidius for Charles the Great they agree to a Tittle And is not this a sufficient Proof Me. May a body see 't a little Og. You may if you 'll damn your self to the Pit of Hell that you 'll never speak on 't Me. 'T is as safe as if you discover'd it to a Stone Og. But there are some Stones that a body would not trust Me. Speak it to a Mute then Og. Upon that Condition I 'll tell you but prick up both your Ears Me. Begin then MARY the Mother of Jesus to Glaucoplutus Greeting These are to give you to understand that we take in good part your strenuous Endeavours as a True Disciple of Luther to Convince the World of the Vanity and Needlesness of Invocating Saints For I was e'en wearied out of my Life with Importunities Petitions and Complaints Every body comes to me as if my Son were to be allways a Child because he is Painted so And because they see him at my Breast still they take for granted that he dares deny me nothing that I ask him for fear that when he has a mind to 't I should deny him the Bubby Nay and their requests are sometimes so extravagant that I am asham'd to mention them and that which a young Fellow not wholly abandon'd to his Lusts would hardly ask of a Bawd they have the face to desire from a Virgin. The Merchant when he is to make a long Voyage desires me to take Care of his Concubine The Professed Nun when she is to make her Escape recommends to me the Care of her Reputation when at the same time she 's resolv'd to turn Prostitute The Soldier marches
and get their livings with their fingers that they may have wherewithal to relieve others in necessity Are not these holy and warrantable Labours by which a Husband provides for his Wife and Children Ti. This is a question which in my opinion may be resolv'd several ways First This Text had a particular regard to those times when the Apostles being dispersed far and wide for the Promulgation of the Gospel they were to cast themselves upon Providence for their support without being sollicitous for it themselves having neither leisure to get their living by their labour nor any thing to trust to for it beside Fishing But the World is now at another pass and we are all for Ease Another way of expounding it may be this Christ has not forbid Industry but Anxiety of thought such as commonly possesses those men that are hard put to 't for a Livelihood and set all other things apart only to attend this This is intimated by our Saviour himself when he says that one man cannot serve two Masters For he that wholly delivers himself up to any thing is a Servant to 't Now tho' the Propagation of the Gospel ought to be our Chief yet it is not our only Care. For he says First not Only seek the Kingdom of Heaven and these things shall be added unto you The word To morrow I take to be Hyperbolical and to signifie a time to come Uncertain it being the Custom of the World to be scraping and sollicitous for Posterity Eu. Your Interpretation we allow of But what is his meaning when he says Nè solliciti sitis Animae vestrae quid Edalis The Body is Cloath'd but the Soul does not Eat Ti. By Anima is meant Life which cannot subsist without Meat This does not hold in our Garments which are more for Modesty than Necessity For a Body may live without Cloaths but without Meat it is certain Death Eu. I do not well understand how to reconcile this Passage with that which follows Is not the Life more then Meat and the Body more then Raiment For if Life be so precious we should take the more Care of it Ti. This Argument does rather encrease our trouble then lessen it Eu. But this is none of our Saviours meaning Who by this Argument creates in us a stronger Confidence in the Father for if a bountiful Father hath given us gratis that which is more valuable he will by a stronger reason confer upon us that which is Cheaper He that has give us Life will certainly give us Food He that has given us Bodies will not deny us Cloaths So that upon the experience of his Divine Bounty there is no reason why we should afflict our selves with any Anxiety of Thought for things below What remains then but that using this World as if we used it not we transfer our whole study and application to the love of Heavenly things and rejecting the World and the Devil with all their Vanities and Impostures we chearfully serve God alone who will never forsake his Children But here 's no body takes any Fruit 'T is a Scripture Dinner you have had for there was little care beforehand to provide it Ti. We have sufficiently pamper'd our Carcasses Eu. I should be glad that ye had satisfi'd your Souls Ti. That 's done I assure ye in a larger measure Eu. Take away Boy and bring some Water Now if you please we 'll wash and conclude with a Hymn out of Chrysostome And Pray'e let me be your Chaplain Glory be to thee O God O Holy O King as thou hast given us Meat for our Bodies so replenish our Souls with Ioy and Gladness in thy Holy Spirit that we may be found acceptable in thy sight and not be confounded when thou shalt come to render unto every man according to his Works Boy Amen Ti. A Pious and a most pertinenent Hymn Eu. Of St. Chrysostoms Translation too Ti. Where is it to be found Eu. In his Fifty sixth Homily upon St. Matthew Ti. God willing I 'll read it before I sleep But tell me one thing why these three Atributes of Lord Holy and King Eu. Because all honour is due to our Master and principally in these three respects We call him Lord as the Redeemer of us from the Tyranny of the Devil with his Holy Blood and taking us to himself We stile him Holy as the Sanctifier of all men and not only forgiving us all our sins gratis but by the Holy Spirit cloathing us with his Righteousness that we might follow Holiness And then King as heirs to a Heavenly Kingdom from him who sits and reigns himself at the Right hand of God the Father And all this we owe to his gratuitous Bounty that we have Iesus Christ for our Lord and not Satan that we have Innocence and Sanctity instead of the Filth and Uncleanness of our Sins and for the Torments of Hell the Joys of Life everlasting Ti. 'T is a very Godly discourse Eu. This is your first Visit Gentlemen and I must not dismiss ye without Presents but plain ones and suitable to your Entertainment Bring 'em out here Boy These are all of a Price that is to say they are of no value 'T is all one to me now whether you will draw Lots or chuse You will not find it Heliogabulus's Lottery for one to draw 100 Horses and another as many Flies Here are four little Books two Clocks a Lamp and a Standish which I suppose you will like better then either Balsoms Dentifrices or Looking-glasses Ti. They are all so good that there 's no place for a Preference but rather distribute them your self They 'll come the welcomer where they fall Eu. In this little Book are the Proverbs of Solomon in Parchment It teaches Wisdom and the Gilding is a Symbold of it This must be yours Timotheus that according to the Doctrine of the Gospel to him that has Wisdom shall Wisdom be given Ti. I will make it my study to stand in less need of it Eu. This Clock must be yours Sophronius for I know you count your hours and husband your time It came out of the farther part of Dalmatia and that 's all the Commendation I 'll give it Soph. 'T is a good way of advising a Sluggard to be diligent Eu. You have in this Book the Gospel of St. Matthew I would recommend it to be set with Diamonds if a sincere and candid Breast were not more precious Lay it up there Theophilus and be still more and more suitable to your name Th. I will endeavour to make such use of it that you may not think it ill bestow'd Eu. St. Paul's Epistles your constant Companions Eulalius are in this Book You have them often in your mouth which would not be if they were not also in your heart Hereafter keep 'em in your hand and in your eye Eu. This is a Gift with good Counsel over and above which is of all Gifts the most