of his humaine nature but trowe you he gaue this prerogatiue to his Apostles you alledge Iohn 20. As my father hath sent me so sende I you But trowe you this is to be stretched to the visible ministerie of al things belonging to his humaine nature His mediation belongeth to the ministerie of his humanitie so wel as to his Diuinitie hath he giuen theÌ„ the office of his mediatioÌ„ The propiciatorie sacrifice of his owne bodie belonged to the visible ministerie of his humaine nature gaue he this power to the Disciples that their bodies also in suffering deathe shoulde be propiciatoris sacrifices The ordeining of Sacraments was in the visible ministerie belonging not only to Christes Diuinitie but also to his humanitie gaue he this power to his Disciples to make Sacramentes Christe therefore gaue not his Ministers all the povver in the visible ministerie necessarie to saluation that belonged to him in his humaine nature but reserued many things peculiar to himselfe Althoughe all the power they haue he gaue it theÌ„ yet all the power he hath â–ª he gaue them not He gaue them power in preaching the worde in binding and losing in administring the Sacramentes And yet is there a great difference betwéene that power that is proper of ones owne and that whiche is legantine and representeth but an others betwéene that that is simple and absolute and that that is bounded and conditionall betwéene that that is principall that that is but ministeriall All whiche distinctions are your owne Scholemens and therefore these powers are nothing like and yet are they so farre vnlike from such princely power of earthly honor as you imagine that they are rather cleane against it both in Christ and in his ministers too And this your own glosse out of your own Pope Gregorie might haue taught you Sicut misit me paâ—…er Idest ad passiones c As my father sent me that is to say to troubles and afflictioÌ„s so send I you to suffer persecution not to raigne like Kings rule kingdomes And therfore sith this sentence of Christ is true that he sent them as he was sent he was not sente in his humaine nature to depose kings nor to dispose of their kingdomes nor to gouerne them therefore his Disciples were not sent thereto But the Pope saith he is sent therto and takes it vpon him therefore he is neither minister of Christ nor successor of his Disciples but his Disciple that hath offered him worldly kingdomes if he would fal downe and worship him as he hath done and so hath gotten his kingdomes As for the sentence of Epiphaniâ—… writing againste the Nazarei although as he hath culled it out it séemeth to giue the Priestes the power of Kings yet this is neither the meaning nor the wordes of Epiphanius Epiphanius whole sentence is this Our Lorde Iesus Christe is therefore a Prieste for euer according to the order of Melchizedech and also a King according to the order from aboue that hee mighte translate the Priesthoode togither vvith the lavve He is of the seede of Dauid bycause he came of Marie sitting in the throne for euer and of his kingdome thereis no ende For novve it behoued him to translate the order bothe of the Priesthoode and of the kingdome For his kingdome is not of the vvorld as hee saide in the Gospell to Pontius Pilate my kingdome is not of this vvorld For sith Christe by hidde speaches fulfilleth all things â–ª the matters declared of him came to a certaine full measure For he vvhich alvvays raigneth came not to receiue the encrease of a kingdome but he gaue a kingdome to those that he hath appointed vnder him that it should not be said he proceeded from smal things to greater For his throne abideth and thereis no ende of his kingdome And hee sitteth vpon the throne of Dauid So that he hath translated the kingdome of Dauid togither vvith the Priesthoode and giuen it to his seruantes that is to the Bishops of the Church Wherby it appeareth playn Epiphanius meaneth not that Christ hath giuen them an earthly kingdome which he toke not vpon himselfe and he flat debarreth from them nor he euer gaue to his Disciples nor they euer exercised But he meaneth of a spirituall kingdome which he himself kéepeth euer and yet he euer communicateth to all his faithfull but in especiall to the Ministers of the Church that set forth the mysteries of this heauenly and not of an earthly kingdome This sentence therefore of Epiphanius maketh nothing for Byshops to be depesers of Kings or disposers and rulers of earthly kingdomes which is the present question VVherefore saithâ—… Saunders sithe there is a double povver in the Churche the one spirituall of vvhich â—…orte is that of the ministers of Christ to whom is commaunded that they should teach baptise all nations but the other is mixt that is to say by the beginning thereof secular howebeit to be now referred to a spirituall end although in the originall in the vse in a certaine middle end they differ as is before declared yet doe they bothe concurre in one bodie of the Church and are caryed to one ende of eternall saluation for the vvhich thinges they are to be counted one certaine vnder povver ordeined For as in Christe there is neither Ievve nor Greeke neither bonde nor free neither male nor female but they ar al one in christ So in the kingdoÌ„e of god the powers are not as it were altogither distinguished either of the father ouer the sonne or of the husbande ouer the vvife or of the master ouer the seruaÌ„t or of the Prince ouer his subiect or of the Pastor ouer his sheepe but al these powers are one in the Church of god And among all men I take this to be agreed vpon that all these povvers shall besvvallovved vp of that infinite glorie that in the life to come shall be poured on the sonnes of adoption in so much that there shall be no secular thing in the kingdoÌ„e of god And sith the Church of Christ is a certaine liuely Image of the life to come although there remaine by reason of the mixte condition of this life certain differences of these povvers yet notvvithstanding they are so among themselues disposed and placed in their orders that euen as euery one of them dravveth neare vnto the life to come so it ought more and moreto gouerne all the residue But it is manifest that euerie kingly or ciuill povver is also among them that are not the meÌ„bers of christ Neither any vvhit lesse appeareth it that the povver of the Pastors and teachers is placed and appointed in the only Church of God for the edifying thereof in Iesu Christe VVherevpon it is euicted that the spiritual power of the pastors of the church dravveth nearer to the state of the life to come than any other povver or familie or earthly coÌ„mon wealth For
he chooseth out the saying of Christ is Pilate My kingdome is not of this world This he saith we alleage before all things I omit his sclanders that we can not suffer â–ª that the flesh should giue place to the spirit that the spiritual Kingdome should rule the temporal and that we fauour to much the fleshe and the worlde All whiche are but méere sclanders and do fitter serue to reâ—…urne vpon the Papists But let vs come to his answere of this obiectioÌ„ which I graunt is one of our obiections vnto them althoughe not as he saythe the chiefe obiection but suche an one as master Sanders with all his shiftes is not able directly to answer to it First what a worldly kingdome the Pope séeketh and possesseth is apparant in so muche that fewe worldly Kingdomes in worldly mighte and glorie are comparable vnto it Although God be praysed it decayeth dayly notwithstanding al his practises to repayre and vndershore the ruines therof Against this his worldly kingdome we obiect that sithe he pretendes to be the Uicar of Christ and Christ statly denieth his kingdome to be such a worldly kingdome if the Pope he his Minister he can not clayme nor enioy suche a worldly kingdome What fetche now can M. Sand. findâ—… or any in all the worlde to elude this playne argument we must sayth he distinguish of this worde the worlde â–ª which somtime signifieth sâ—…ne darknesse and the reprobate In this sense Christes Kingdome is not of the world Sometimes the worlde signifieth all visible creatures and in this sense it is in the worlde though it be not of the world that is it hathe not his originall of the world but from god But this hindreth not but that beeing in the world worldly kingdomes may be subiect to it And so we sor not marking these distinctions are fâ—…ly deceiued Whether we be deceyued or you M. Sanders or whether we or you would deceiue others all the worlde easily may perceiue We admitte your distinction of beeing in the 〈◊〉 but not of the worlde Neyther disallowe we your significations of the worlde althoughe subtilly you conceale those significations thereof that it oughte to haue béene further distinguished into For the worlde signifieth often times the glorie mighte riches power and pleasures of worldly thinges especially when this worde Kingdome is ioyned to it And this is the very natural sense of a worldly kingdome that is to say a state in or of the worlde excelliâ—… in these worldly thinges Nowe this which is the very naturall sense you â—…yde and runne about the 〈◊〉 with this and that signification to carrie the readers 〈◊〉 awâ—… â–ª from the proper signification of it We denie not that the kyngdome of Christe is in this worlde neyther denie wée that Christian kinges oughte to submitte them selues vnto it But we denie that thys kingdome stretcheth to the worldly gouernment and possession of kingdomes or Realmes to the deposing of Kings and translating the states of Polycies whiche is the proper question now in hande And to shewe that this sentence of Christe without all shifting or shuffling is simply and playnely thus to be vnderstoode I will desire none other besides S. Augustine whome you cite and the auncient Fathers than euen the Papists own iudgements and interpretations on this sentence My kingdome is not of this worlde whiche the Glosse expoundeth thus Quasi decepti estis c. As though he should say ye are deceiued for I hinder not your gouernment in the worlde And so sayth Lyra Non quaerit c. He seeketh not the temporall gouernment of this worlde c. My kingdome is not from hence that is to say so farre as appertaineth to gette these temporall things But agaynst this seemeth that which is sayd in the Psalme 46. God is the King of all the earth but he is very God as he is very man therefore his kingdome is of this worlde VVe must say that according to the veritie of his diuinitie all thinges are subiect vnto Christe notwithstanding so farre as appertayneth to his humanitie he came not in his first comming to gouerne temporally but rather to serue suffer And so it appeareth that he sufficiently excludeth that that was laide to his charge of vsurping the kingdome of Iewry bicause there was no question of him but in that that he was man and for the present state that he was in whiche appertayned to his first comming Ferus expounding this saying My kingdome is not of this worlde Quasi diceret c â–ª As though sayth he he shoulde say I graunt O Pilate and acknowledge my selfe to be a King this is euen that that I haue done this is that crime that is laide vnto me Howbeit vnderstand this thing aright I am in deede a king but so that I neither vsurpe not diminish the power of thy Keysar nor expell any of the Kings or Princes froÌ„ their power or dominioÌ„s And that thou mayst vnderstande the matter it selfe I am not a worldly king but an heauenly in whose handes are the hartes of all Kings although it seeme not so to thee My kingdome that is my principalitie or administration or my kingdome that is my lawes and rightes or my kingdome that is my ministers and subiects is not of this worlde that is not of man but of god I saith he am of him made King ouer his holy mount To conclude it is not of this worlde that is it is not temporall but eternall for the world and the lust therof doth passe away Besides this it is not of this world bycause it is not corporall but spirituall and is administred after another sorte than is a worldly kingdome For this is administred with a materiall sword but my kingdome hath no neede of this sword for the sword therof is the word of god The kingdome of the worlde hath Cities Towers Townes Villages Armies Armor my kingdome requireth onely the harts of men The world ruleth the goods and the bodyes but I rule the hartes and the consciences The world ruleth with a carnall power but it yeeldeth to the spirituall but I rule spiritually against sinne death and hell Thou seest how beautifully Christ describeth his kingdom After the same maner almost doth Zacharias speake of the kingdome of Christe Beholde thy King commeth vnto thee meeke and poore c. Howbeit we must marke that he saith not my kingdome is not in this world For Christ also is the Lorde of the world for all things were made by him all power is giuen to him in heauen and earth now if the kingdome of Christ be not of this world then it followeth that there is yet another worlde And therfore although thou seest not the promises of Christ fulfilled in this world yet despaire not for there is another world in the which is fulfilled whatsoeuer here is not fulfilled Againe bicause the kingdome of Christ is not of this world
we are bidden to pray let thy kingdome come In this first word therefore Christ deliuereth Pilate from all feare moreouer by this example proueth himselfe to wit that he is cleare from desiring the Imperiall or kingly power If saith he my kingdom were of this world â–ª I would not lead vnarmed Disciples about with me but armed yea I would haue counsellours souldiors armies c. who in this my necessitie should with swerdâ—… defende me as their Lord yea offring themselues to death for me Or if I coueted a worldly Kingdome eyther the Angels should defend me from the violence of the Iewes or rather I would haue nede neither of Angels nor of men for my right hand should be able to helpe me c. Of these things therefore Christ concludeth but nowe my kingdome is not from hence Out of which argument persuade thy selfe moste certainly that my kingdom is not of this world VVhatsoeuer thou or thy Emperor hath it shall for me remaine whole vnto you I desire none of your things I regarde not the glorye and riches of the worlde that you esteeme for the greatest goods These things truely were spoken to Pilate but they pertaine to vs For if the kingdome of Christ be not from hence what dost thou ChristiaÌ„ seke for riches and honors of this world if the kingdome of Christ be not of this world Christians therfore ought to haue tribulatioÌ„ in this world while in Christ they haue the peace of conscience maruell not therfore froÌ„ whence so many troubles happen to the godly in the world And with this word the godly man ought to comfort himselfe in aduersitie and say my kingdome is not from hence Besides this if the kingdome of Christe be not from hence then erre they that set the kingdome of Christe in outwarde things and elementes of the world â–ª c. Thus doth your owne frier Ferus expound this sentence that the kingdome of Christ is not in such power royaltie as worldly kingdomes are nor diminisheth deposeth nor taketh away from kings their kingdomes And thus doth Ludolphus gather out of Chrisostome and other auncient fathers Nihil denique monstrauit tale c. To conclude he neuer shewed any suche thing He neither had souldiers nor Princes nor horses nor burden of mules â–ª nor anye suche thing about him But he led this lyfe humble and poore carying aboute with him 12. base men Accordyng to his diuinitie all things were subiect to Christ howbeit as touching his humanitie in his first comming he came not to rule temporally to raigne but rather to serue and suffer VVherevpon he denieth not that he is a King but rather graunteth it Bicause according to the truth he was the King of Kingâ—… but yet to take awaye occasion of escaping he tempereth his aunswere saying that he seeketh not the temporall dominion of this worlde bycause his Kingdome is not of this world so farre as toucheth the seeking and hauing these temporal things and therfore his kingdome was neither against the Iewes nor the Romaines nor hindred their authoritie bycause they only regarded an earthly Kingdome that is of this worlde As thoughe he saide to them ye are deceyued I hinder not your Empyre in this world least vainly ye should feare and rage but come ye to the heauenly kingdome by beleuing that is not of this worlde to the which by preaching I inuite you Christe saide my Kingdome is not of this world but yet notwithstanding many Prelates which are his vicars seme in their doyng to say the contrarie in pompes making themselues equall to Princes or rather exceeding them Thus saith agayne your Monke Ludolphus and withall hitteth your Pope for his more than worldly kingdome For whereto else tendeth all this drift but that the Pope ruling all Christian Kingdomes pretending a spirituall Kingdome of Christ might get a carnall kingdome to himselfe As for Saint Augustine who you saye marked that Christe saide not â–ª my Kingdome is not here but it is not froÌ„ hence if you Maister Stapleton also had marked this in Saint Augustines exposition on thys sentence Audite Iudei c. Heare O ye Iewe and Gentiles heare O thou Circumcised heare O thou vncircumcised heare O ye earthly kingdomes I hinder not your rule in this world you might haue marked with all that althoughe his kingdome be here in this worlde yet is it not onely not of the world â–ª but also not a worldly kingdome nor hindreth their gouernment which it shuld do if it might depose and alter them Thus we sée S. Augustines minde was not that the kingdome of Christe dispossesseth Kings or any estates of men of their possessions and temporall goods wherto M. Saunders applieth him and also that by S. Augustines and by his owne Friers Iudgementes this sentence is aptly obiected of vs against that kingdome that the Pope claimeth vsurpeth in the name of the Kingdome of Christ. Neither can all M. Saunders elusions shift off the force of our obiection Neither doth this auaile that he saith by the world is ment darknesse sinne and the reprobate True it is the worlde many times signifieth all these things But what helpeth this when euen the Popish kingdome as an euident token of reprobation not onely committeth but maintaineth most abhominable sinnes and the darknesse of ignorance is their chiefest couer Howbeit the pride and tyrannie of the Popes earthly kingdome was so apparant that euen themselues crie out vpon it But nowe to M. Saunders And although Christe be borne of the Virgin beyonde the course of nature yet notwithstanding he is both verie man was verily borne and by nature he ought to be the King and Prince of all who in things of that kinde is the first and onely I like their sentence very well who teach that Christ in that he is man is the true King and Monarch of all mankinde although his kingdome be not such an one that he euer mingled himselfe in earthly things except whereas they might be profitable to a spirituall ende As you like verie well of these mens sentence so you haue heard the iudgement of your owne side to the contrarie that Christ as he is man by his first comming toke no Monarchie nor Kingdome vpon him but a spirituall kingdome belonging to his diuinitie Althoughe I doe not mislike theyr sentence neither that referre also the kingdome of Christe vnto his humanitie so that they referre not as you do an humaine kingdome to it He is very man we graunt althoughe you in the doctrine of transubstantiation to confound the veritie of his manhoode he was also verily borne and is the only chiefe of al that are borne and he was borne of the stem of vvorldly Kings also and he was truely called euen by his parentage the King of the Ievves but bycause his kingdome consisted not in that he was not borne to be suche a king And this appeareth euen
in these wordes following vnto Pilate after he had denied his kingdome to be of this world when Pilate replyed Arte thou then a King he answered thou saist that I am a king Ne tamen c. vvhiche notvvithstanding saithe Ferus least Pilate should be more offended vvith the name of a King Christe proceedeth to declare his kingdome more plainely as thoughe he shoulde say Pilate vnderstande thou this for troth and cast out of thy mynde all suspition of a vvorldly kingdome or of tyrannie This is the case I vvill not at al denie my spiritual kingdome vvhether it be before thee or before Caesar. Onely knovve thou this thing that it is not my purpose to inuade any man vvith Armes or after the manner of other Kings to raigne pompously but to erecte and establishe in earth the Diuine truth To this purpose vvas I born â–ª and to this purpose came I into the vvorlde that I might beare vvitnesse to the truth Therfore I say came I therfore was I borne not to fight with the svvorde but that I might teach and declare the truth and the Gospell vvhiche is the povver of God to saluation to all that beleeue And as I declare the Gospell so I rule by the Gospell in the heartes of the beleeuers ouer sinne death and the Deuill and for sinne vvill I giue righteousnesse for death life for the Crosse ioye for hell I vvill giue heauen these are feofments of my kingdome Of these things none can be pertaker excepte he heare my voyce and beleeue in his heart I enrich not mine vvith ryches vvith cities and other feofmeÌ„ts but by my vvords I communicate vnto them ioye life peace and to conclude heauen it selfe The Gospell therefore is the Scepter of my kingdome But what are these things against the Emperor of Rome Thus againe we sée that Christe is not such a King nor his kingdome suche as you dreame of Whiche in the ende your selfe contrarie to your selfe confesse that his kingdome is not suche an one that he euer mingled himselfe in earthly things Then Master Saunders those thinges belonged not to his Kingly office nor to his kingdome For in suche things euery King ought not onely to mingle but chiefly to occupie himselfe But strait you haue an exception at hand that he mingled not himself in earthly things except whereas they might be profitable to a spirituall ende and this your selfe before confessed was the finall ende of all the ciuill power and that all faythfull Kings ought to directe all those thinges in their kingdomes vnto spirituall endes bicause they themselues are spirituall And so what letteth but that Christe should haue raigned as a worldly King and gouerned an earthly kingdome But say you This kingdome of Christ therfore both came from heauen tendeth vnto heauen For both al povver is giueÌ„ vnto â–ª him as he vvas man and died and rose againe that he shoulde rule ouer the lyuing and the deade and that he should be set ouer the vvorkes of the handes of God and that all things should be cast vnder his feete sheepe and Oxen and moreouer the beastes of the fielde And also Saint Cyrill saith that euen the wicked in the laste daye shall arise to their punishement for Christe vvho rose firste and contained as man al men in him self Sith therefore earthly Kings administer those things that pertain to sheepe and Oxen and beasts of the fielde although they remaine Eâ—…hnikes and Infidels yet are they truely vnder Christe the King as the most vvorthy man â–ª that hath receiued the principalitie ouer all thinges of this vvorlde not from the earth but from heauen and for the same shall giue an accouÌ„t to him of their common vveale euil ordered bycause they referred not their kingdomes to a spirituall ende that is to the glorie of one god But Christ so far as appertineth to his humaine â—…atuÌ„re being lesse than Angels seemeth to me to haue receiued that kingdome that Adam first should haue administred among all creatures to the glorie of one God if he had not falne from grace and to haue renued it in himselfe and to haue directed it to a spiritual end that vvhen all things should be subiect to the Sonne of man then should the Sonne also be subiecte vnto him that hath subdued all thinges to him that God might be all in all Sith therefore Christ by his humaine nature is the King of all he truely directeth al things to a spiritual end that is to the glorie of God for God deserueâ—…h glorie yea euen in those that are damned bothe for his povver and for his iustice The effecte hereof is this that God hath giuen to the humain nature of Christ as to the principal of al his creatures al povver iudgement to direct them to a spiritual end that is to his glorie But what is this to the purpose that Christes kingdome is after the fashion of a vvorldly kingdome he gouerneth all creatures we graunt with his power and prouidence yea the sheepe Oxen and cattail that he speaketh on But dothe the kingdome of Christe consiste in these things Numquid Deo cura de bobus hath God saith Sainte Paule care of Oxen in the coÌ„sideration of his heauenly kingdome He telleth vs howe all Kings shall answere for the â—…busing of their kingdomes vnto Christ at the day of dome bycause they referre them not to a spirituall ende But he telleth not howe muche more the Pope shall aunswere for â—…surping kingdomes and abusing the spirituall kingdome of Christe to vvorldly endes But shall this iudgemente of Christ be in a vvorldly coÌ„sistorie He telleth vs how he thinketh that Christe receiued that kingdome that Adam should haue had had he not falne But thinketh he that Christe should haue ruled in an earthly Paradise or that Christ came to restore vs to no better kingdome than Adam was in before he sinned He telleth vs Al things shal be made subiect to Christe and Christe to God and God shall be all in all But thinketh he this kingdome shall be in this worlde and militant Church while the euimies striue and are not yet al subdued he telleth vs the glorie and iustice of Christ shineth in the condemnation of them that are damned But dothe he thinke this is a vvorldly glorie and humaine iustice it is true that the glorie and iustice of Christe shal shine ouer theÌ„ And so shal it in the righteouse condemnation of the Popish Church that séeketh such a vvorldly kingdome and calleth it the spiritual kingdome of Christe to cloake their pryde withall But what can Master Saunders conclude hereon for Byshops to possesse kingdoms to rule Kings to sette vp or to depose them Neither say I these thinges saithe he to shevve herevpon that povver is ouer the vniuersal vvorld giuen to the Bishops of the Chnrch as though they in all things are the Ministers and Vicars
and Sathan neyther of a kingdome in the sense of a Polycie gouerned by a king but in the sense of the spirituall giftes of christ In whiche sense euery faythfull man woman and childe is not onely a member of his kingdome but is a king Howbeit he is not a king in that sense that Christ denied his kingdome to be of the worlde that is to be a Magistrate and gouernour of Gods people which estate is onely graunted vnâ—… Princes and as flatly â—…ebarred from any ecclesiasticall person as from any other priuate man. Siâ—…he therefore we say not that other kingdomes oughte to be vnder the Ministers of the Church of Christ than those that already beleeue in Christe or at any time haue beleeued truely this is most foolishly obiected to vs that Bishops haue no power ouer Christian kings and their kingdomes bicause it is written the kingdome of Christ which is committed to his Ministers for the parte whereby he worketh heere is not of this world For we seeke it not of those kingdomes that are of this worlde but of those which althoughe they be in this worlde yet by fayth in Christe they haue lefte to be of this worlde M. Sand â–ª still wrestes of purpose this worde the worlde to sinne and to the state of the vnfaythful As though Christ onely ment My kingdome is not a kingdome of sinne and such as are the kingdomes of those Princes ouer whome the Prince of darknesse raygnes Whereas the wordes of Christe are playne that his kingdome is not suche a kingdome as ruleth in worldly glorie whether it were of the faithfull kinges or the vnfaythfull For the Iewes that would haue made him a king dyd not doubte of this that he would become a tyrant or an vnfaythfull Prince they hoped he would be a better Prince vnto them â–ª than he was that then oppressed them they trusted he woulde gouerne them as Dauid Salomon and other godly princes had done they reckoned that their Messias shoulde rule in all worldly glorie as a moste mightie king But this opinion Christe denieth in his fléeing from their offer And so he sayde to Pilate If my kingdome were of this worlde my ministers would fighte for me that is I could not by tyrannie but by worldly and lawfull power and force maynteine my kingdome Neyther did his Disciples when they desired suche preheminence in his kingdome thinke his kingdome was a kingdome of sinne or a rule of vnfaithfulnesse but thought of a very worldly gouernment shining in all might and glory which they tooke to be good and lawfull and him to be most worthy of it And this is that that Christ reproueth in them affirming that neither he nor they shoulde raigne in suche sorte as worldly Princes do whether they were faithfull or vnfaithfull Princes Not that Christ gouerneth not the faythfull Princes For they obediently submit their earthly kingdomes to his spirituall kingdome yea and to the ministers of his kingdome too in thinges belonging to the ministerie of his spirituall kingdome But that the Ministers of the spirituall kingdome of Christ haue suche power ouer any Christian Prince that beléeueth in Christ that they may take his estate from him that they theÌ„ selues may rule in his estate that they may make him holde his estate of them that they oughte not to be subiect to his estate this is the thing that M. San. laboreth in and would bring all kings and their kingdomes vnto that either haue the faithe of Christe already or at any tyme haue had it as Ierusalem Syria Gréece Asia Egypte Africa and diuers other countreys so well vnder the Turke and Saracens as all Christian kingdomes in the worlde to be subiecte to the Popes authoritie to receyue or forsake their kingdomes at his pleasure But this and suche other worldly glory of rulâ—…g kingdomes is flatly debarred by Christes saying My kingdome is not of this worlde neither all the wisdome of the worlde can coâ—…nteruayle this sentence how foolishly soeuer we seeme to M. Sanders to obiect it But this is his olde song all are rooles and doltes with him that obiecte any thing agaynst the Popes worldly wyse Dominion But this foolishnesse we néede not be ashamed of that is the decrée of Christ who is the fathers wisedome If therefore wee see suche a kingdome as is dedicated to Christe thus gouerned that the King by abuse of the sworde whiche he carrieth carrie away the Christian Citizens into moste greeuous sinnes yea into schismes and heresie if he say Christe is but a creature if euery where he permitte diuorces if he affirme vsuries to be lawfull shall it be a wicked deede first after one or two admonitions to remoue this King from the felowship of the faythfull and then if he yet amende not him selfe by the helpe of other Princes to expel him vtterly from the gouernment of his kingdome If a Christian King were suche an other wicked King as héere you imagine you aske if it were a wicked deede thus to order him I answere you it were a wicked deede For and he were ten times more wicked that excuseth not the Bishops treason to incite other to expell him None of the auncient godly Bishops did euer attempt that treâ—…heris agaynst such wicked Princes were they Arians Tyrants or whatsoeuer they were til the later Popes did set abroche this trayterous practise For a Bishop beeing but a subiect althoughe he is not bounde to obey the Princes vices yea he is bounde bothe to disobey the vices and to reproue the Prince for them and to terrifie him with the threates of Gods wrathe althoughe it coste him his life for his labor yet is he not bounde to rebell or cause other to rebell or to practise conspiracies with other agaynst his Prince wherby effusion of Christian bloud ensueth Yea he is bounde to the contrarie to obey his ciuill gouernment and not he to abuse his estate also bicause the Prince abuseth his estate but to vse all lawfull meanes he can to reforme him committing the rest to God who placed him and whom he representeth in his calling thoughe he swarue from him in his ruling As for the Bishops haue no suche calling to depose him nor any suche ruling as worldly Princes good or ill do exercise And therfore if they take this vsurpation vpon them thoughe they oughte not to depose Princes yet ought Princes to depose them especially béeing infected with those vices that M. San. suâ—…niseth are in these Princes Haue not Popes made schismes when two or thrée or foure at once striued for the Papacie haue not Popes maynteined Christ is a creature â–ª as Liberius that was an Arian and a sinfull creature yea alyer as Leo the tenthe obiected to Bembus Quidmibi narras de Christo fabulas VVhat tellest thou me the fables of Christ Hath not the Pope not onely permitted diuorces for many other causes
the church in euery cause wherof it is not otherwise disposed in the new testament is to be holden of the law of nations or of lawe ciuil To this I answer First this in part is true but in part so false that himself confutes himself making exceptioÌ„ of diuers things in the ciuill power that sproong immediatly froÌ„ God neither were those things as he falsly saithe Circa res terrenas about earthly matters but about ecclesiasticall matters in the law of Moyses And although their ceremonial causes and iudicials pertayning to ecclesiasticall matters in the ciuil power be taken away with the ceremoniall and indiciall lawe of the Iewes yet the ciuil power hath like authoritie in the like causes ecclesiastical of the new testameÌ„t as is shewed out of S. Aug. against M. St. the Donatistes Secondly where he sayeth all the ciuil power nowe of christian kings and Emperors is all of the law of nations or ciuil except in cases otherwise disposed in the new testament I answer this may well be graunted and yet the ciuil power hath authoritie ouer ecclesiasticall persons in causes ecclesiastical for so not only in the old testament but also in the newe Testament it is playnly disposed Thirdly to this diuision of the original of both these estates that the ecclesiastical is from God immediatly the ciuil by other meanes I answere this distinction faileth both by his own tale saying Ciuilis à deo plerunque est per media quaedam the ciuil power is oftentimes from God by certain meanes If it be oftentimes by certaine meanes then it is not alwayes and but accidentall not of the nature of the estate for so it is also immediatly from God. And the like accident falleth out likewise of the ecclesiastical estate that although the power be immediatly from God yet many causes in it called Ecclesiastical be also Per media quadam humani ingenij interposita by certain meanes of mans wit put betwene For this cause sayth M. sand the ciuil power among the heathen that know not god is found to be the same that is extant with faithful kings although Christ wold not haue such power in the ministers of his kingdom for he said the Princes of the nations rule ouer them and they that are iuniors exercise power ouer them so shall it not be among you I answere first Maister Saunders this is a like slander to M. Stapletons fo 29. a. b. The ciuil power is not found to be the same in heathen Princes that knowe not God and in Christian Princes that know God there is a very great difference betwene these so different estates wherin the one acknowledgeth all his power to be of God and hath it described and limited by Gods word the other takes it al for hu main naturall not so much as knowing God by your own confession from whome the originall of it springeth Secondly to that you saye suche power is debarred by Christe from his ministers If yée meane by suche power suche power as is among the Heathen suche is not onely debarred from them but from christian Princes too If ye meane suche power as Christian Princes haue is debarred from the ministers of Christ then say ye true But howe then dothe youre Pope chalenge and vsurpe bothe suche and the same also Yea your selfe afterwarde reason moste earnestly thoroughout all the fourth chapter following that the ministers of Christe may haue it Wherin ye speak cleane contrary both to Christ and to your self Thirdly I note this eyther youre grosse ignoraunce or your impudent falshood in altering the wordes of Christe He sayth not they that are iuniors or yongers the Texte is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they that are great whiche are cleane contrarie If M. Stapleton were your aduersarie he would rattle ye vp Master Saunders for so foule a scape Nowe to fortifie a difference betwéene the Ecclesiastical power and the Ciuill he vrgeth that the spiritual kingdom of Christ is in this worlde but not of this worlde as for the earthly kingdome is bothe in and of this world but the ecclesiasticall power is the spirituall kingdome of Christ therfore there is a difference but the spirituall kingdom of Christ excelleth all worldlyâ—… kingdomes therfore they are stark fooles that in any ecclesiasticall thing to be administred preferre the earthly kings before the pastors of the Churche I answere all these conclusions are impertinent If there be any follie it is to striue for that that is not in controuersie We graunt a difference betwixt both powers and kingdomes althoughe a question is to be moued what he meaneth here by ecclesiasticall power If he take it as the Papistes do we denie that ecclesiasticall power to be the spiritual kingdome of Christ. For their ecclesiasticall power is ouermuch not in the worlde but of the worlde also If he meane by ecclesiasticall power the spirituall kingdome of Christ as he in his word hath ordeyned the fame although there be a difference betwene the power in the kingdom and the kingdome in the which the power is yet we graunt this gladly that no wise man will preferre the earthly kings in any spiritual thing to be administred before the pastors of the churche But this is nothing againste the earthly kings preferment ouer the spirituall pastor to ouersée him rightly and spiritually to administer his spirituall things in the ministration whereof all earthly kings oughte to giue place vnto him which we did neuer denie And sith there is no comparison betwene Christ the sonne of God who is also God himself and a creature of the law natural or ciuill neither is there any comparison betwixt the power ecclesiastical which is wholly giue vnto vs by only Christ the mediator the power royall which either altogether or almost altogether is not ordeined of God but by the lawe of nations or ciuill for although God hath reuealed froÌ„ heauen that belongeth to the power royall if notwithstandyng that pertained not to eternall saluation which is hid in Christ but to contein peace among men that is to be reckned to be reuealed no otherwise than to be a certain declaration which he had grafted in vs by Nature or else euen necessitie ought to haue wroong out of vs or profite according to the seedes of nature ought to haue brought to light I answere first we graunt that the ecclesiastical power not as the Papists stretche it but as it is giuen vnto vs by only Christ the mediator is farre superior without all comparison than the royal power of Princes Howbeit this hindreth not but as the ministers are mediators thereof to vs the royall power of Princes hath againe an other superior gouernment to ouersée that there be no other ecclesiasticall power exercised by the mediation of the Minister than Christ the only mediator hath ordeyned And to remoue all popish â—…oysting in giuing vs quid pro quo whiche when
earthly in this respect as M. Saunders him selfe confesseth neither bathe he the gouernement of the Churche which is dispersed in many kingdomes but is a gouernour of a parte therof or of some particular Churche Nowe when M. Saunders hath thus proued as he thinketh the imperfection of the olde lawe saying And thuâ—… should these thinges be if in the olde time the kinges of the Iewes had exercised any chiefe power in ecclesiasticall matters and ouer the Bishops He turneth him selfe on the other side to the flat deniall of this which in the answere to our first obiection he flatly graunted and fled then to thyâ—… shifte that the case was altered But nowe sayth he neither is it true that the Kinges of the Iewes were counted greater than the Priestes of the Leuiticall kinde in administring those thinges that pertayned to ecclesiasticall matters whiche by peece meale I will not be greeâ—…ed to shewe It will not greeue you to tell a lye M. Saunders but to tell the truthe it woulde be a greefe vnto you Where dyd we say that the Kings of the Iewes were counted greater than the Priests in administring those thinges that pertayned to ecclesiasticall matters But go too let vs sée what peecemeale proues you bring And firste saye you Moyses commaunded that after the King was sette in the seate of hys kingdome hee shoulde wryte oute for him selfe in a volume another copâ—…e of this lawe â–ª taking the copie of the Priestes of the â—…euiticall Tribe But if not onely other but the king also him selfe muste go to the Priests for writing out of the lawe how was the king the prince in interpreting the lawe the copie whereof he was compelled to craue of other was he not herein admonished that he should remember that the priests were his superiours in those things that pertayned to the law for as euery Magistrate crauing the sworde of the king receiuing it doth in so doing declare the king in the right of the sword to be greater than him selfe after the same sorte is it when the king receyueth of the Pristes the copie of the diuine law Is this the copie of your piece meale proues M. Sand he that should take a copie of your argumentes might per haps haue néede but God wot shoulde finde full slender stuffe in them This argument is copied out of Stapleton and your other collectors and is already answered Which if it were good bycause the Prince taketh the copie of the lawe from the Priest therefore in the gouernment of matters pertayning to the lawe the Priest is aboue the Prince then is the Register aboue the Chauncelor the Bishop then is the Clarke aboue the Stewarde and the Prince bicause he hath the kéeping of the recordes And this is a more like example than that you bring in of a Magistrate crauing and receyuing the sworde of the king for in this example the King hath not onely the kéeping of the sworde but al the authoritie of and lawfull exercise of the sworde vnder God dependeth on him and suche as he will giue it vnto Wherfore he acknowleageth rightly the King to be his greater But in the lawe of God where the kinges gouernement is appoynted to him and by that appoyntment of God he hath interest in matters of the lawe of God by his kingly office and therefore must haue the lawe of God about him to directe his giuerment and hath not this interest authorie giuen him of the Priest as the subiect hathe the authoritie and exercise of the sworde giuen him of the king doth this argue a like that the Priest is superiour bicause he muste haue the kéeping of the lawe and the king that he may be sure he hath a true copie of Gods lawe muste haue it of the Priest Dothe the keeping argue the greater authoritie â–ª The king must haue the crowne of the kéeper of the crowne and the seale of the keeper of the seale is the keeper therefore the greater Nay it rather argueth althoughe in looking too that those thinges be well kepte and truely declared they haue a more especiall charge in their offices yet are they rather inferiours in that they haue for the kings behoofe the kéeping and deliuery of them And so the priest hathe an especiall charge of keeping and deliuering to the Prince the lawe of God bicause of his especiall vocation in the studie profession and administration of it Whiche argueth more cunning and learning of duetie to be looked for at his handes than at the Princes And therefore we ascribe not as you saye greater principalitie to Princes in the interpreting of the lawe of God. Princes commit that to the interpreters But to the Prince is committed a superiour charge of gouerning all persons to ouersee that the lawe of God be rightly interpreted and administred And for this cause the Prince oughte to haue the copie of the lawe not him selfe to interprete it and whereto then to lye idly by him no to gouerne him selfe and all his subiectes by the prescription of it After this he alleageth the examples of Moyses Samuell Iosue Dauid Salomon Constantius and Theodosius In Moyses and Samuell he hathe nothing that is not common To Iosue Dauid and Salomon he vseth Stapletons answeres and there is answered The examples of Constantius and Theodosius are somewhat already answered and shall be further God willing when we come to the practise And likewise to the Councels that he citeth The argument of the fourth Chapter That Christian Princes may be deposed from their estates by the Bishops and their kingdomes giuen to other when their gouernment hurteth the truth of the faith and the soules health whereto they are ordayned IN this 4 Chapter M. SauÌ„ders kepeth no perfect method and therfore we must follow him as he procéedeth First he maketh two kinds of men the earthly man and the heauenly man and so likewise two kingdoms the one earthly the other heauenly The earthly kingdome choseth their king by humaine consent as Nimrod c. Of the heauenly kingdom that Christ hath in the earth Christ is the king Who although by the worthinesse of his nature he be king of all men yet is he called onely the king of the faithfull Who comming into the world as he hath not taken away the former nature of maÌ„ but renued it so hath he not destroyed the earthly kingdome but amended it Here vpon he concludeth that earthly kings may be made Citizens of gods Church and vse all their olde right and most free gouernement in all those causes that diâ—…ishe not the faith and Religion of christ They may make whome they will fit Ciuil magistrates They maye appoint at their pleasure lawfull punishments for malefactors and freely do al other thing that by the law Naturall Nationall Ciuil or Mâ—…nicipall shall be allowed To all this as we agree with M. Saunders and therfore I gather bâ—…t a briefe coÌ„tâ—…ct
base things of the worlde thatis by the pouertie of the Apostles and the tormentes of the Martyrs he ouercame the mightie things the same God within a while after did so ioin togither his heauenly kingdome with the earthly kingdome that there also he might shewe no lesse both power and mercie while some kings voluntarily made themselues subiect to the pore Ministers of Christ But other refusing at the first to be made subiects vnto theÌ„ yet by the spirituall power of theÌ„ were either afterwarde conuerted to repentance or else vvere hurled downe from the high degree of the Empire they possessed that euery waye it should be true that God reuealed to Daniel In the dayes of those kingdomes the God of heauen shall rayse vp a kingdome which shall neuer be destroyed his kingdome shall not be giuen to an other people but it shall frush and consume al kingdomes and it shall stande for euer This truely is the kingdome of heauen or the power of the Church of God. It is euen so M. Sand â–ª and therefore not suche a worldly kingdome as your Pope vsurpeth you proule for him to mainteine but the heauenly kingdome of Christe and the power of God which is his Gospell shall frush and consume your kingdome with the other Nay say you they did indéed once iarre but now they agrée the heauenly and the earthly kingdome are conioyned togither Agréement is a good hearing M. Sand â–ª but what meane you by this coniunctioÌ„â—… that the one is become the other and not still distinguished from it or that your Pope may be king and his Byshoppes Princes of bothe nay M. sand you finde not that agréement and coniunction For Christ hath put such a barre betwene them that his spiritual Ministers can not haue earthly kingdomes nor that earthly kings shoulde in the estate of their earthly kingdomes becoÌ„me subiecte in such wise to his spirituall Ministers otherwise than to yelde their obedience to their spirituall ministerie representing the power mercie of God vnto them But not to resigne their crownes vnto them not to be troden vnder their feete not to be deposed of them and driuen out of their earthly kingdomes The spirituall kingdome of Christ it selfe much lesse the spirituall ministers of that kingdome dealeth not with earthly kings in such a fashion which is not to agrée or ioyne wyth them but to conspice against them You tel vs of some kings that haue voluntarily yeelded theÌ„ selues subiectes some that were compelled and driuen out of their kingdomes but was this done as you saye by the pouertie of the Apostles and the tormentes of the Martyrs True it is that by these base things God ouercame the mightie things of the world But trow you that they by their pouertie deposed kings by their suffering tormeÌ„ts draue theÌ„ out of their realme that were a harde matter But name the Apostle name the martyr name the king name the kingdome you can No you can not â–ª But you shal finde the centrarie for if they were in pouertie then were they not rycher than kings if they suffered tormentes theÌ„ they put not meÌ„ to tormeÌ„ts they were tormeÌ„ted not tormeÌ„ters sufferers not doers of theÌ„ Neither suffered they as malefactors for coÌ„spiring against kings for going about to haue deposed kings froÌ„ their kingdomes Are you not ashamed your Popes being rycher thaÌ„ kings crueller than tirante to tel how God ouercame the mighte of the worlde and increased his spirituall kingdome this was Gods doing not mans and by cleane contrarie meanes to your doings and to cleane contrarie purposes not to storish in an earthly kingdome or to dispossesse kings as al your drifte doth tende But you haue examples hereof howe you broughte kings to this thraldome but for shame ye durst not name theÌ„ the stories were so tragical But now this being coÌ„trarie to Christes prohibition he propouÌ„neth an obiection himselfe in our behalfe answereth it Thou vvilt say do therefore By â–ª hoppes and Pastors of the shepe of Christ rule temporal kingdomes properly indeed and of it selfe in no vvise But thus do Byshops rule temporal kingdomes if so be such kingdomes do submit themselues to the Christian faith For euen in this that Christian kings and nations do desire the faith Sacraments of Christ they promise heerein that they vvill neither gouerne nor obey any earthly gouernment further than the Christian faith and religion may suffer If therefore either the gouernement of the king or the peoples obedience begin to svvarue othervvayes either they may be deposed from their gouernment or most iustly excluded from the povver of choosing a king by the force of the couert or expressed couenaÌ„t which at the beginning they made vvith the Church of Christe For vvhat soeuer is so much of the nature of the thing that is done that if by chaunce mention vvas made thereof at the beginning it can not othervvise agree than by that one vvaye vvhich although it were not expressed betvvene the bargain makers yet is it holden for expressed bicause it was necessarily contained in the nature of that that was done For ensample A man saith to a vvoman I take thee to my vvise she againe making answere I take thee to my husbande But that they shall liue togither euen till death although this expresly is not vttered in the couenant notwithstanding it is so contained in the nature of the thing that it is necessarily vnder stood After the same maner it is when either the king or any priuat man is made a member of the church by faith baptisme For euen in that that he renounceth the worlde the pomps thereof verily he promiseth that he will neuer abuse the power of his earthly kingdome againste the faithe and church of christ And if so be he shall do it he wil not refuse but that he may be depriued of the right of his kingdome For I aske if this namely should come in question Softe M. Sand â–ª we must interrupt you or els we caÌ„not so coÌ„ueniently answere you To your question anon now to your argument and your 〈◊〉 thereâ—…n The obrection you made was this whether Bishops and Pastors of the sheepe of Christ may rule temporall kingdomes You answere properly and of it selfe in no wise But as those kingdomes do subiect them selues to the Christian sayth This is a proper elusion M. Saunders thinke you to escape thus is it all one to subiecte their kingdomes toâ—…e Christian fayth and to subiect their kingdomes to the Bishops Good 〈◊〉 it is that the fayth should beare the â—…héefe rule But the obiection was whether the Bishops should or no and therfore this â—…inction serueth not For Christ simply without this or y respect debarâ—…eth al his spi ritual ministers froÌ„ ruling of teÌ„poral kingdomes Who knoweth not that properly and of their owne nature temporall kingdomes should not be ruled of spirituall pastors but
intreaties rather thaÌ„ with terrors The condition pleaseth a publike calling forth of the people is made by the Kings coÌ„maundement to whom the King maketh an oratioÌ„ persuadeth the people to receiue the faith of Christ moueth them to submit their neckes to Christ the priest reioyceth that the King not yet baptized is becoÌ„e an Apostle of his owne natioÌ„ so the King is baptised What condition is here made by the Bishoppe vnto the King of giuing ouer his realme deposing himselfe which might haue done more hart thaÌ„ good In what couâ—…nant did the people here binde themselues to looâ—…e the libertiâ—… of chosing their King or promise to forsake their King if their King forsake the faith here was no such bondage â—…red â—…ther to the King by the Bishop and the King thought good to offer none such to the people but with gentle persuasions to allâ—…re them So that these presupposals of these Bishops speaches vnto these Princes are vtterly false and forged onely to driue in the readers heads a surmise of seme suche conditionall admission to the Christian faith in these elde Princes dayes whiche was nothing so nor so And yet by these colourable presupposals he enforceth his matter with a question aying Can the Bishop to this man thus affected minister the sacrament of Baptisme and giue the sacrament of thanksgiuing Why M. SauÌ„ders here was no such condition moued yet Remigius gaue Clodoneus the sacrament of Baptisme â–ª In deede the sacrament of that kâ—…giuing he gaue not then vnto hym neyther was it necessarie till he were instructed in the mysterie of it And therefore this is as fondly added in this case to the Sacrament of Baptisme as your case of Baptisme is craftily and malicioâ—…sly deuised to bring Princes in bondage vnto Bishoppes But this King thoughe he and his people submitted their neckes to Christe yet did he not thus submit himselfe and his people to the Bishoppe The long promiseth to 〈◊〉 one God but not to 〈◊〉 eyther the Bishop of Remes or the Bishop of Rome â–ª These knackes and conditions of bondage for Princes to promise and â—…weare obedience to the Pope and to his Bishops yea to sweare to depose themselues and become pâ—…uate men if they forscke this consâ—…rained obedience is of later times as the Popes power and tirannie hath growne and hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to Christian Princes great huâ—…lie but lâ—…s in manye Christian kingdomes But yet it neuer went thus for as it now should do â–ª if M. Saunders might haue hie minde for it was neuer vrged in their Christâ—…dome before This pasieth the slauerie of the Spanish InquisitioÌ„ that no Prince nor people shuld be christened except they swere to these exceptioÌ„s In the olde time when the Prophetes anoynted kinges they tolde them of the blessings of God to come vpon them and their posteritie to sitte in their seate after them and that God woulde buylde them an house to continue if they serued him and walked faythfully in his wayes And if they should do the contrarie howe God woulde rende the kingdome from them and giue it to another Of suche promises and threates that the Prophetes tolde the kinges we reade and of the promises that the kinges made agayne to God we reade but that any Prophet compounded with the king before that he shoulde renounce his kingdome or that any king tooke either their circumcision or their kingdome on suche condition or that the king reuolting from his promise either voluntarily or by compulsion deposed him selfe or was deposed of the Bishop Priest or Prophet of God these thinges yâ—… can not shewe vs but these thinges ye shoulde shewe vs if ye will make good your sayings and directly proue your purpose You tell vs heere a tale of a tubbe in the name of these kinges Bishops that they neuer dyd nor I thinke dyd euer thinke of any such deuises But go too let vs nowe presuppose with M. Saunders euen as he imagineth A King would be baptised The Bishop sayth VVe are glad most deare sonne that thou desirest to be made a citizen of the kingdome of heauen but this thou oughtest to knowe for certayntie that the case is not like in the kingdome of heauen as it is in the worlde for in the Churche thou muste liue so that thou make captine thy vnderstanding to the obedience of fayth But thou how greater thou art in the worlde mayest so muche the more hurte the Churche of God if thou shalte abuse the righte of thy sworde to the defence of heretikes contrarie to the Catholike fayth No otherwise therefore thou mayest haue entrie into the Churche than if thou shalt promise that thou wilte persist in that fayth and defende that Churche with all thy force which beeing receiued from the Apostles is continued by the successioÌ„ of Bishops vntil this day dispersed through out all the world But if it shall chaunce thou doest otherwise thou shalt not refuse but shalte go from the right of thy kingdome and promise to leade a priuate life M. Saunders nowe presupposeth that the king hearing the Bishop thus beginne to indent with him will beginne his answere to the Bishop thus I am ready to acknowledge the Christian fayth Why M. sand is not this inough if the Bishop séeke something else besides the acknowledging of the Christian fayth Surely he neither séeketh the glory of God nor the Princes saluation nor the encrease of Christendome but his owne sucre authoritie Well the Bishop will haue him graunt to all the residue of his conditions or else he will not baptise him Heere agayne he presupposeth the king to say further But I neither promise that I will with my sworde defende the Catholike fayth neither will I for whatsoeuer I shall do giue ouer the right of my kingdome Ye tel the kings tale parcially M. San â–ª you should make it flatly to denie that whiche the Bishop exacted of him to do Which was to promise to defend not the faith but that faith that Church c. Which the king denieth to make promise vnto the Bishop on suche condition Yea saith M. sand saucely steppeth in for the B. can the B. to this man thus affected minister the sacrament of baptisme c. And why not M. San. if the bishop be not worse affected him selfe than this man is for you graunt your selfe that he is wel affected towards the christiaÌ„ faith would acknowledge it which is al one with defending it And if the bishop be not content with this promise hath not the king good cause to suspect him he telleth him of bondes conditions to be made to renounce the right of his kingdome if he perâ—…e not in that faith with al his force if he defeÌ„d not that church that was receiued from the Apostles continued by successioÌ„ of B. till this day and iâ—… dispersed throughout all the world May not here the king
Church of Christe either in making lavves for it or in taking armes for it or in giuing his life for his brethren and much more in yelding or giuing vp his kingdome for his saluation If any man come to me saith Christ and hate not his father and mother and vvife and children and brethren and sisters yea and his life also he can not be my disciple But any kingdome ought not be deerer to a king than his ovvn life Therfore sith euery Christian ought to giue his life for Christe hovve muche more ought any king rather to hate his kingdome than that he shoulde forsake christ But and if any man that commeth to Christ thinke vvith himselfe otherwise than thus he doth nothing but deceiue himselfe For in that that Christ hath set this lavve in his Gospell that no man shoulde come to him that is to say enter into his Church but he that should be readie rather to forsake al the goods of this vvorld thā leaue the faith of Christ then in that that any Christian king is made a Christian he promiseth not only to fosake his kingdome but his life also rather than hee shoulde bring offence to his brethren If therefore the same king shall so sinne against the Christian faithe that by no meanes he vvill be amended he may by the ministers of Christ be depriued of his kingdome Not that all temporall kingdomes are vnder the ministers of Christe but bycause the kingdomes of all Christian Princes by the nature of the thing that is done are made subiecte to them so ofte as it is expedient for the saluation of the people that the kingdomes should either this vvay or that vvay be translated Here is a faire tale M. Saunders but a foule conclusion The drift of all is this Byshops maye translate kingdomes either this vvaye or that vvaye as they shall thinke expedient for the peoples saluation Howe say you M. Saunders is not this your conclusion you make exception that all kingdoms be not vnder you ▪ as though some were as indéede you haue gotten too many vnder you Where Christe saith you shall haue none vnder you but you will néedes haue some Yea by this rule you wil haue al christian kingdomes vnder you For howe are they not vnder you if they maye be translated this vvay or that vvay and giuen to this man or to that man as ofte as you shall thinke it expedient are not you then the Kings of Kings when you may depose and sette vp Kings and alter cleane topsie turuie which you call translating the state of euery kingdome at your pleasures Indéede Master Saunders the Byshop sayde not thus muche before to the King that woulde be baptized Well say you it was but his negligence or forgetfulnesse And what if he sayde nothing heereof yet he ment it yea and the Kyng himselfe promised it Where finde you that Master Saunders Yes say you he promysed that and more too vvhen he made himselfe a member of Chryste and desired of Chryste to be saued For in that doing vvill he nill he this promise is contained that hee shall minister to Christe and to the Churche of Chryste eyther in making Lavves for it or in taking Armes for it or in giuing his life for his brethren and muche more giuing vp his kingdome for their saluation You iumble many thinges togyther Master Saunders And yet goe to we graunte you all this the King promised thus muche but not vvill he nill he in spite of his bearde he did it vvillingly in offering to acknovvledge the faythe of Chryste wherein he promised to minister to Chryste and to the Church of Christ as you say But whether you be Christ or no I thinke the King will make no question But perhaps he may moue the questiō whether you be the Church yea any parte of the Churche of Christ or no. And if he finde you to be whiche I doubte me will be an harde matter to persuade the king if it be wel examined well then the King shall minister vnto you But howe shal he minister as your slaue and be at commaundemente I thinke Maister Saunders you can not picke that out of his promise Nay your selfe expounde the contrarie saying that he shall make Lavves for the Churche If you then bée the Churche as ye pretende to be he muste make Lavves for you But the Lavve maker to any body by your owne saying and by good reason is aboue the parties for whome he maketh Lavves and therefore the king not onely in the ruling of you but euen in his ministring vnto you is aboue you Nowe if he finde you not to be of the Churche then muste he make lavves and minister iustice againste you for vsurping that title and deceiuing of his people But say you he must giue his life for his brethren much more his kingdome for their saluation You say well Master Sanders he ought to doe so if the forsaking his kingdome or his life woulde be his brethrens saluation But you put a hard case and not commonly séene for I thinke the peoples getting of saluation lyeth not vpon the kings losing his life or kingdome but onely vpon Iesus Chryste If you speake of other accidentes and occasions twentie to one the people are oftener in more danger by the kings death or deposition than by his life or gouernemente excepte he be a very tyrant and indéede his life and gouernement may doe much hurte and it were better he were fayre buried or did resigne than he should gouerne Gods people But God knoweth best what he hath to doe and can take him awaye when he will or can suffer him to scourge and exercise his people wyth affliction The chaffe and stubble wyll burne with fyre but the Golde is purifyed the electe are tryed and are not damned by his tyrannie nor they consent vnto his wickednesse nor yet they reuolt from his obedience nor rebell and depose him but possesse their soules in pacience and crye to God to succor them Nowe as it falleth out thus in the worste case that you can put that no Byshop nor other subiecte may depose his Soueraign so in a good Prince no such thing is to be feared And since it is to men vncertaine how the king will proue they iudge and hope the best bycause they knowe not the worst and extorte no such promise of him Much lesse ought they to make a rule that he shall resigne or suffer death whē the people will haue him and say his life or gouernmente hinders their saluation or when the Byshops shall say it is hurtfull to them then at the Byshops so saying the king must either lose his kingdome or his life this is a hard case M. Saunders for poore kings and trowe you this is contained in their promise Well say you Christ saide if any man come to me and hate not his father his mother his vvife his children yea his
life for me he can not be my Disciple much more then must he hate his kingdome and be readie to leaue his kingdome and all the good in the vvorlde for Christe or else hee is no Christian. You say true M. Sanders he must forsake and hate al for Christes sake But that he must do this for your Byshoppes sakes when they will say it is expedient he should so do that I finde not in the words of Christe and yet muste you beware howe you expounde that saying For he is bound also to loue and to kéepe to the vttermost all these thinges in their kindes not to renounce nor hate theÌ„ except they hinder him from Christ whom he must prefer before al things But this loue to Christe in principall maye stande togither with these loues wel inough Neither is he any more bounde to resigne his kingdome than to resigne his vvife into the Priestes hands Nor if he abuse his kingdome the Prieste can no more turne him out of it than he can if he abuse his goods and his vvife turne him not of his dores and take his goodes and his vvife from him and kéepe hir himself or giue hir vnto an other This can not the Byshop do although the Prince and euerie man be bounde to lose al for Christes cause Yea the Byshop is bounde hereto as well as any other And God knowes how some of them kepe this bonde and yet wil not they léese one halfpennie for Christes sake howsoeuer they breake it But the kingdome is a â—…oule moate in their eye and therefore the King poore soule must lose all and they must take it from him But now to Master Saunders other arguments Moreouer the kingdomes of faithfull Princes whose people feare God are not altogether earthly or worldlye For in that part that they haue beleued in Christ they haue as it were lefte to be of this worlde and haue begonne to be members of the eternall kingdome for although the outwarde face of things which is founde in kingdomes meere secular be in a Christian kingdome yet sith the spirite of man is farre the more excellent parte of hym and the whole spirite acknowledgeth Christ his King and onely Lorde I see nothing why Christian kingdomes ought not rather to be Iudged spirituall according to their better part than earthly And this is the cause why nowe long since those which gouerned the people of God were wont to be annoynted of his Ministers no otherwise than were the Prophetes and Priestes For euen the Kings them selues also are after a sort partakers of the spirituall Ministerie when they are annoynted not that they should do those things that are committed to the onely Priestes herevnto orderly consecrated but that those things which other Kings referre to a prophane and worldly ende these Kings should now remember that they oughte to directe to an holye ende For when they themselues are made spirituall it is fitte they should will that all their things should be counted as it were spirituall But nowe are spirituall things so vnder the Church of Christ that the Church may freely dispose and decree of them to the profite of the whole mysticall body Syth therefore the people of Israell woulde needes desire a King to be giuen them Samuel by the commaundement of God toke a cruse of oyle and powred it vpon the heade of Saule and kissed him and sayd beholde God annoynteth thee to be the Prince ouer his inheritaunce VVhich to me seemeth to signifie euen as though it had bene sayde except the Lord annoynted thee to be the Prince thou couldest not rightly and orderly be the Prince ouer hys people whiche hee hathe chosen and reserued out of all the worlde to be as it were peculiar to hymselfe For in that that is gods no man can take power to him selfe without Gods permission But God anoynted Saul to be the Prince not by himselfe but by Samuel his minister wherfore whosoeuer ruleth ouer the Christian people which is no lesse acceptable to God than was the people of the Iewes hee besides the right which he receyueth of God by the consent of the people ought also to acknowledge his power to be of Christe by his Ministers if so be that he be suche an one that worshippeth the Fayth of Christe VVherevpon to thys day all Christian kingdomes are annoynted of some Christian Bishop or some other Minister of God referring therein their principalitie not onely to the people and so vnto God but that moreouer by the Priests of Christ they referre it vnto Christ whose Ministers they are For Pope Leo wrote elegantly vnto Leo the Emperour Thou oughtest to marke stedfastly the Kingly power not onely to bee giuen to thee to the gouernement of the worlde but to be giuen thee chiefly for the succour of the Churche that in suppressing naughtie attemptes thou shouldest bothe defende those things that are well decreed and restore the true peace to those things that are troubled If Maister Saunders woulde goe plainely to woorke and make his argumentes shorte and formall and woulde rather shewe his Logike than his Rethorike the truth or falsehoode woulde appéere the sooner the reader perhappes mighte be the lesse delyghted but withoute perhappes hee shoulde be lesse beguyled and the aunswere mighte bée the clearer and the shorter â—…ll this long argument in effect is this All spirituall things are so vnder the Church of Christ that the Church may freely dispose and decree of them to the prosite of the whole mysticall body All Christian Kings and kingdomes are spirituall things Ergo all Christian Kings and Kingdomes are so vnder the Church of Christ that she maye freely dispose and decree of them to the prosite of the whole mysticall body And firste Maister Saunders trauels in the Minor. To proue Christian Kyngs and Kyngdomes spirituall that bycause the better parte of them is spirituall therefore hée seeth nothyng why they oughte not to bee rather iudged spirituall Yea Kings were woâ—…e to bee annoynted no otherwyse than Prophetes and Priestes not to doe theyr actions but to referre all theyr affayres to holy and spirituall dedes And can you sée this Maister Sanders Now how chance you coulde not seeit before when you made the Christian Princes ciuill power to be no better than the Turkes or Tartars to stretch no furder thaÌ„ to the body a quiet lyfe haue you now espied not onely the endes wherevnto they rule but the estate also itselfe by reason of the better parte to be spirituall what hath made you see so cléerely nowe forsooth now is now and then was then You were pleading then that the Christian Princes ciuill estate was so farre different and vnlike that Princes might not meddle in spirituall matters and therfore then was fitte oportunitie to denie that Christian Princes Ciuill power had any spirituall thing in it But nowe we are in another argument that Priestes maye order and dispose
Kingdomes and depose Kings as they shall thinke expedient and to proue this â–ª we must saye they be in the Churches power and to proue that wee must saye they are spirituall â–ª and so spirituall men may deale with spirituall thyngs And for this reason we can sée no cause nowe but that Christian Kingdomes are spirituall that we spirituall men which are the Church might haue the disposing of them Well then I see also Maister Saunders that for aduantage you can and you can not see And play seest me and seest me not But who seeth not that hath any indifferent eyes that this is but legerdemain and that you speake flat contraries in one thing although you turne your tale to other purposes But let go that you saw not before let vs loke what you see in Princes now Nowe you see that they are spirituall And why so not bicause they doe the spirituall actions of the Priests but bicause of their better part that is of the spirite of God and bicause of the end wherto they driue al their things to become as it were spirituall Why then M. Saunders your eyes mighte serue you if your hart could serue you to see this withall that although the Prince can not do the spirituall actions of spirituall persons yet this hindreth not that he may notwithstanding be a gouernor ouer ecclesiasticall persons in causes ecclesiasticall and maye ouersee them both And if you can see the one and not the other surely your sight is partiall But newe M. Saunders loking another way will haue Princes no furder spirituall than in that they are vnder the Church And here making the Maior the Minor the former the later by a figure called Hysteron proteron the carte before the horse he will proue that all spirituall things are so much vnder the Churche of Christ that the Church may freely dispose and decree of them to the profite of the whole mysticall body and so Kings and Kingdomes as is sayde before beyng spirituall things are so muche vnder the Churche of Christ that she may freely to the profit of the whole mysticall body dispose and decree of Kings and kingdomes But first Maister SauÌ„ders we denie your Maior For although in certaine things it be true to wit in such things as are left to the disposition of the Church that is to order and dispose such things as of their nature are indifferent to the profite of the whole mysticall body or any part thereof for these things are called spirituall things not properly in their owne nature but as in spirituall causes the spirituall persons vse them and yet all this is not so freely lefte to the Churches disposition that some principall persons in the Church as the Prince or the Pastors haue not the chiefest stroke in the disposition of them For if they were so free that euery member in the Churche shoulde haue his nay or yea in disposing of theÌ„ when would they be disposed And if at length they were it would peraduenture fall out in the end so little to the profite of the whole mysticall body that it woulde be rather the hinderaunce and disquieting of it But besides these spiritual thinges there are a great many other of whiche some in déede are méere spirituall as the worde of God the Sacramentes of Christ the Articles of fayth the Commaundementes of life and all suche thinges as God hathe either expressed in his worde or is necessarily conteyued in it These thinges béeing spiritual are not so vnder the churche of Christ that the churche may freely dispose and decree of them But they statly dispose and decree of the churche and the churche can not alter nor swarue one iote from them Whiche if she shoulde she shoulde not profite hir selfe for she is the whole mysticall body but destroy hir selfe and dissolue the whole body and euery part therof And such as these things are is the estate of a King and kingdome whiche althoughe it be not so méere a spirituall thing but so farre foorthe spirituall as your selfe confesse yet bicause it is the ordinaunce of God and God hath in his worde set foorthe the office of a King and declareth that the setting vp and pulling downe of Kinges and the alterations of kingdomes belongeth to him selfe and neuer gaue that authoritie to his Churche muche lesse to his Ministers to set vp and depose Kinges and alter kingdomes Kinges therefore and their kingdomes no more than other spirituall thinges are not so vnder the churche of Christe that she maye freely dispose and decree of them to the profite of the whole mysticall body Neither hathe the whole mysticall body any more thraldome or lesse fredome that Kings and kingdomes are not so vnder hir or that she maye not freely dispose and decree of them as she shall thinke moste profitable to the whole mysticall body than she hathe more thraldome or lesse freedome bicause she can not alter nor dispose the other spirituall things Yea in this case the Churche léeseth lesse libertie than in the other for the freedome of the Churche â–ª béeing a mysticall body is cleane another matter pertayning to the conscience and is a mysticall freedome from the tyrannie of Sathan from the cursse of the lawe from the bondage of sinne from ceremonies and humayne constitutions and not from obedience to kinges and to haue superioritie ouer them and libertie to depose them and to translate their kingdomes Whiche freedome and superioritie is not spirituall but carnall and worldly And if the Churche had it she woulde not onely bring kinges and kingdomes but euen hir selfe in bondage and therefore Christe hathe barred it Whiche freedome bicause the Popishe Churche aspireth vnto and claymeth and holdeth ouer â–ª kinges and kingdomes she is not the true Church of Christ that they boast of but rather a Iewishe Synagoge dreaming vpon an earthly Messias or rather a Persian or Turkishe Temple that measureth the freedome and dignitie of Gods Church by the pompe and mighte of the worlde to depose kings and dispose of their kingdomes at their pleasures But to proue that kings and kingdomes pertayne not to the free disposition of the Church but of God I will desire no better prooues nor example than euen M. Saunders heere brings foorthe Sithe therefore sayth he the â–ª people of Israell would needes desire a king to be giuen theÌ„ Samuel by the commaundement of God tooke a cruse of oyle and powred it vpon the head of Saule and kissed him â–ª and sayde beholde God anoyâ—…teth thee to be the Prince ouer his Inheritaunce which to me seemeth to signifie as though it had bene sayde except the Lorde anoynted thee to be the Prince thou couldest not rightly and orderly be the Prince ouer his people whiche he hathe chosen and reserued out of all the worlde to be as it were peculiar to him selfe For in that that is Gods no man can take power
time done 〈◊〉 to the Prince trow you ye neuer did it Did your Pope neuer iniurie to the Emperour did your bishops neuer iniurie to kings did your spiritualtie neuer iniurie to the laytie I thinke for shame you will not denie it If you do you shall haue witnesses inow of your owne side against you Agayne did your Pope neuer suffer iniurie to be done to Princes and might haue helped it and did not denie it you can for shame Moreouer did your Pope his Clergy neuer saynt from iustice and truth you dare not séeke to couer it it is so open and confessed What remedie now to amend these things the gouernors of the Church say you must admonish theÌ„ to decline from euill and do good Who are these gouernors of the Churche that ye speake of our selues say you Why then you must admonish your selues Would to God you had that grace M. San. that you would enter into iudgement with your selues and admonishe your selues But now running headlong in your faults and wil not heare them tolde of any other but thinke you do well he that shal tel you the contrarie you wil tell him he is an heretike if he come in your clawes you will burne him although he were some of your owne companie for so you haue serued diuers that haue rebuked your faults errors yea you are so sotted on your selues that you maintein you can not erre O how roughly wil you admonish your selues how soone shall all the worlde looke for your amendment Is not this a plaine mockerie with the world world is it not more than time for Christian princes that are in déede the gouernors of the Churche to admonishe you I denie not but you may yea ought to admonish the Prince also if he be suche an offender as you imagine But that you oughte to be the onely admonishers of them and not your selues of them to be admonished â–ª you sée the inconuenience And yet there is a difference betwéene admonishing and gouerning and a greater difference betwéene admonishing deposing But by little and little you drawe to wards it But what and if the Prince say you will not amend him selfe And what say I if the Priestes wil not amend theÌ„ selues we must make hast say you to other remedies Yea but not suche haste M. Sâ—… that you break your sâ—…nnes and much lesse such hast that you breake the ordinaunce of god For in such haste is more waste than spéede the end of it neuer wanteth â—…o We graunt you there are remedies in the Church of God for such inconueniences but no such remedies as for the subiect to attempt to depose his Soueraigne and stirre the people to rebellion But if any say you beeing admonished amende not him selfe we are bidden to denounce him to the Church VVho if if he will not heare the Church is to be accounted as an Ethnike or a publicane Are you bidden M. Sanders if he be your Prince to renounce your ciuil polytike obedience that you ought him yea although he were in déede an Ethnike if you find this you come somwhat néerer to the purpose else you do not only wrest this place which is not spoken of Princes but also straggle cleane from the matter in question But now say you if any King not hearing the Church be permitted to holde and administer his kingdome ouer Christians who seeth not all the people ouer whome that King ruleth to come into most certaine danger of losing the faith for that saying is no lesse true than auncient After the example of the king the whole world is framed So while only Ieroboam as I sayd before worshipped two Calues the one in Bethel the other in Dan and appoynted Priestes not of the sonnes of Leui but of the basest of the people This thyng became an offence to tenne Tribes and for the greatest parte of Israell the faythe peryshed The danger and offence is great we graunt of Princes thus offending But for subiects to depose their Princes for these dangers or offences the danger and offence were not remedied but augmeÌ„ted For what Prince were not then in danger if you would lay these offences to his charge were he neuer so giltlesse of them if he neuer so little offended you ye mightâ—… say he did you iniurie or he suffered other to do it he helped you not he foughte not in your quarell agaynst those Princes on whome you woulde haue set him If he swarued at any time from iustice or but spoke a worde awrie yea if he but saynted from those things you woulde haue him do would not acknowledge that he so dyd who you reproued him for it when you tolde it one to another for you call your selues the Church then in all poste haste the prince must be couÌ„ted as an Ethnike or a publicane be deposed froÌ„ his kingdome the people muste rebell In what danger by this doctrine both the Prince the people stand your selues also the teach this dangerous doctrine is apparaÌ„t The exaÌ„ple of Ieroboam is a greater case but as great as it was neither the priests nor the prophets atteÌ„pted to depose IeroboaÌ„ nor the people rebelled agaynst him no nor the tribe of Iuda nor RoboaÌ„ were permitted to war against him for all this great losse danger that the people receiued by him Sithe therefore say you the wisdome of God hathe not lefte the Churche of God whiche is a citie excellently founded and defenced without a medicine which it may giue to suche a disease neither is there any other medicine can helpe than that which taketh away so euill a king from among the people and giueth the kingdome to a better man we muste beleeue that suche power is graunted at the least to the chiefe Pastor of the Churche in these wordes feede my sheepe and whatsoeuer thou bindest in earth shall be bounde also in heauen So that the chiefe Pastor can not onely excommunicate a wicked king but also set his subiectes free from al obedience of him The wisedome of God as you say M. Sanders hathe not lefte the Church of God without medicines for suche diseases Gods worde is euen a storehouse of plaisters as well CoÌ„solidatiues as Corrosiâ—…es for the Ministers of Christs to apply them to any infected members But these medicines that are taken out of the worde of God you despise and reiecte as too base simples vaunt of your owne compoundes There is a medicine in gods word called In patientia vestra possidebitis animas vestras yâ—… shall possesse your soules in patience when a wicked Prince â—…oth vexe them There is another called In fide fundati stabiles beyng founded in faith and stable Another called Ad te leuaui oculos meos I haue lifted vp mine eyes to thee c. Another In Domino confido non
of Christe for Ieremie is interpreted the highe one of the Lorde who destroyed the kingdomes of the Diuell whiche he shewed vnto him on the toppe of the Mountayne hee destroyed the aduersarie powers blotting out the handewriting of errour in his Crosse. Of whome nexte to the hystoricall truthe it is sayde in a figure VVherefore did the Nations frette and the people imagine vayne thinges the Kinges of the earthe stoode vp and the Princes came togither in one In the place of all these beeing destroyed loste and pulled downe into hell the Churche of God is builded vp and planted Thus saith your owne Glosse in applying this sentence from Ieremie to Christe concerning Christes pulling downe and setting vp of kingdomes And on this wyse oughte the Ministers of Christe to pull downe and set vp kingdomes that is with the sworde of Gods worde to beate down â–ª the power of Sathan the kingdome of errour the buylding on the sandes the workes of sinne to roote vp vices and to beate downe as S. Paule termeth them all strong holdes resisting the truthe of God and to set vp the kingdome of Christ to edifie his Church to builde vpon the rocke to plante vertues and by doctrine and ensample enstruct the faythfull people And so dothe youre owne Glosse interprete it Vt euellas mala destruas regna Diaboli That thou shouldest pull vp euils and destroy the Kingdomes of the Diuell c. and shouldest edifie the Churche Wherevpon saythe the Glosse To foure heauie thinges two ioyfull thynges succeede for neyther can good thinges be buylded except the euill thinges be destroyed neither can the best thinges be planted excepte the worste thinges be rooted vp For euery plante that my heauenly father hathe not planted shall be pulled vp by the rootes and that buylding whiche is not buylded on the rocke but vpon the sandes is digged vp and destroyed with the worde of god But that which the Lorde shall consume with the spirite of his mouthe that is all sacrilegious and peruerse doctrine he shall destroy it for euer and those things that lifte vp them selues agaynst the kingdome of God and truste in their wisedome VVhiche before God is foolishnesse he shall scatter and put them downe that for these the humble thinges mighte be edified And in place of the former thinges that are destroyed and pulled vp those things may be buylded and planted that are conuenient to the ecclesiastical truth of whom it is saide you are the buylding of God you are the tilth of God. Héere M. sand euen by your owne glosse is described what this building and pulling downe is that belongeth to the ministers of Christ so farre vnlike your Popishe buylding that it sheweth the ouerthrowe and rooting vp of your plantes and buylding and howe your kingdome shall vtterly be destroyed In the ouerthrowing of whiche munitions and buylding the truth of God the ministers of Christ muste so set themselues agaynst all worldly kingdomes that fearing not their mighte and tyrannie agaynst the truthe they ouercome them As God sayde to Ieremie Girde vp thy loynes and arise and speake vnto them all those thinges that I commaunde thee Feare not their faces for I wil make thee not to feare their faces For I haue made thee this day a strong citie and an yron piller and a brasen wall ouer al the lande to the Kings of Iuda and to the Princes therof and to the Priests and to the people thereof and they shall not preuaile for I am with thee saithe the Lorde and wil deliuer thee If the kinges of Iuda sayth the Glosse whiche is interpreted confession and the Princes and Priestes and people of it to witte the Bishops the Priestes and Deacons and the vile and vnnoble vulgar people will arise agaynst an holy man let him haue a strong faithe and feare not let him trust in God and he shall conquere them Héere is the conquest of these kingdomes whereby the true Ministers of God shall ouercome all Kings and Princes all Bishops Priestes and Deacons and all the people that resist them But this is as farre from deposing kings from their estates from ruling possessing and translating earthly kingdomes as you that séeke after all these things are farre from Ieremies from Christes and from his Ministers conquests But sayth M. Saunders the Protestantes who can not suffer that the fleshe giue place vnto the spirite or the temporall kingdome to the spirituall for euery where they fauour too muche the fleshe and the worlde before all thinges they alleage agaynst vs the saying of Christe my kingdome is not of this worlde we muste see therefore what Christe in those wordes woulde haue vnderstoode For the Protestantes wrest them hitherto as thoughe the Ministers of the Church of Christ which is the kingdom of God may haue at any time no power ouer Christian Princes or ouer their earthly kingdomes and causes subiect to them bicause the kingdome of Christ himselfe is not of this worlde But in this thing they are too fouly deceyued For it is another thing â–ª not to be of this worlde and farre another thing that the Christian kingdome that is in this world shoulde not be subiect to Christ and to the Ministers of christ VVhen Christ denieth his kingdome to be of this worlde either by the name of this world is vnderstoode sinne and the tyrannie of sinne and the masse of the reprobate as the Lorde otherwhere faithe you are not of the worlde if you were of the worlde the world would loue his owne but I haue chosen you out of the worlde or else by the name of the worlde is vnderstoode all this visible creature whereof the faythfull also are parte so long as they liue heere If therefore by the worlde we vnderstand darknesse and sinne and the reprobates of this world certaine it is the kingdome of Christ is by no meanes of this world bicause all the kingdome of Christe is lighte and darknesse is not in his kingdome who lightneth euery man comming into this worlde But if by the worlde we meane the visible creatures and among them compreheÌ„d the Churche of God verily â—…e denieth not that those creatures are subiect vnto him or that these temporal kingdomes that beleeue in him are comprehended vnder his eternall kingdome But he denieth that his kingdome is from hence that is to say taketh his originall of this world as other kingdomes are wonte to do For the kingdome of Christe sâ—…rang not from the law of nations as other kingdomes do but from the diuine and naturall yea and from the supernatural lawe VVherevpon Augustine marked that Christe saide not my kingdome is not heere but it is not from hence for in the worlde it is but of the â—…orlde it is not but of heauen Héere M. sand hauing as he thinketh confirmed his opinion will now assay to confute our obiection agaynst it And to this purpose
of Christe in that he is man for they haue not receiued the vvhole povver of Christe to administer it but that part that properly belongeth to beleeuers For it vvas sayde vnto the first Pastor feede not all men but my sheepe and to thee I giue the keyes not of all the vvorlde but of the kingdome of heauen Sithe therefore Christe hath receiued a certaine celestiall kingdome vvhich kingdome vseth also earthly things vnto the glorie of God and sith out of the things of the vvorld he hath chosen a certaine societie of men vvhiche in a certain especial sort vvorshippeth God in faith and loue in this onely seconde kynde of things Christe hath ordeined Pastors to be his Vicars You say that ye say not these things to shevve that herevpon povver is giuen to Byshops ouer al the vniuersal world But what soeuer you say your Pope saith contrarie applying this saying of Christe to himselfe and his successors all povver is giuen to me in heauen and in earth You say that Byshops haue onely that povver that properly belongeth to the beleeuers bycause Christe sayde vnto the firste Pastor feede not all men but my sheepe That Peter was the firste Pastor is another question Master Saunders But that the the Apostles had not in charge to go and preach to those that were not beleeuers yea to all men so farre as they could besides the feeding of them that were beleeuers and so were become alreadie the shéepe of the folde of Christe is a manifest vntruth For the Apostles had this generall charge goe ye into all the vvorlde and preach the Gospell to euery creature So that they fedde besides the faithfull the Infidels dispersed through out the whole world for those Christe also calleth his bycause they shoulde be his shéepe alias oues babeo c. I haue also other sheepe that are not of this folde those must I bring also c. But whereto run you to this so euident falshood forsooth to proue that the Byshops haue ful power ouer al the beleeuers in a their earthly possessions so might haue power to depose Kings to occupie their king doms sease vpoÌ„ al mens goods that are Christians bycause they are their Pastors And to this purpose is it that you say Christe hath receiued a certaine celestiall kingdome vvhiche vseth also all earthly things vnto the glorie of God. Whiche saying in this sense may well be graunted the kingdome of Christe vseth all earthly thinges that it vseth to the glorie of God but this woulde be proued that the Kingdome of Christe vseth by the administration of the spirituall ministers thereof a vvorldly or earthly kingdome which vse is so far from the glorie of God that it is contrarie to his celestial kingdome Whiche consisteth as you say in feeding the sheepe of Christe in the keyes of Gods worde and in that especiall sort of vvorshipping God in faith and loue and not in deposing kings or gouerning of earthly kingdomes wherin they can not be as you terme them Vicars or deputies of Christ sith Christ the King neither tooke himselfe such vse of power vpoÌ„ him flatly forbad the same vnto his Ministers Therefore the vvhole kingdome of Christe came from heauen that is from the dignitie vvhich is giuen vnto his humaine nature for the vnion of the Diuine nature Neither by any meanes the kingdome of him drue his originall from the lavve of nations or the ciuile For hee refused to be created King or to deuide the inheritance betwene the brethren saying vvho hath made me a Iudge or deuider ouer you As though he shoulde say neither the common vveale neither the Emperor hath made me a Iudge yet notwithstanding these brethren thought of such a Iudge But in that part that Christe vvas appointed of God to be Iudge by his incarnation concerning that he saide vnto those brethren bevvare of all couetousnesse For he savv that they draue not their inheritance to a spirituall ende that they might beare the heauenly iudgement of Christe This is a shamefull wresting of the Scripture and inuerting of the manifest doings of our Sauiour Here are two other plaine examples of Christ against Master Saunders the one of his refusall to be a vvorldly King the other to be a'vvorldly Iudge The former he shifteth off in this sortâ—… Christ would not receiue an earthly kingdom into his hands not bycause he would none of it but bycause he woulde not take it of their gifte least it shoulde séeme to come of them For his kingdome is of heauen and notin the originall from the lavv of nations or of the ciuile As though our disputatioÌ„ were so much of the originall as of the vse and hauing of it as though Christe respected nothing but the originall or as though if he woulde haue had such a kingdome he could not haue had it if they had not giuen it him or as thoughe euen the first original of earthly kingdomes came not from God also But to confute you with your owne mouthes I will cite once againe Frier Ferus againste you that alledgeth not onely this cause of the originall but many other causes directly to this purpose Christe fled saithe he bycause he receiued not a kingdome of men but gaue a kingdome vnto men He fled bycause his kingdome is not of this vvorld it is not carnall it consisteth not in externall riches povver pompe c. Yea he rather came that he might teach to contemne these things But his kingdom is a kingdome of truth iustice peace and eternall life For although he gouerne in all the vvorlde yet hee gouerneth not after the manner of the vvorlde nor he affecteth suche a kingdome He sâ—…edde therefore not bycause he vvoulde not raigne ouer the faithfull but bycause he deferreth the expresse tokens of reigning for the time to come Hee sledde bycause hee came to minister not that it shoulde be ministred vnto hym Hee fledde for hee came not to kill Kings but to preach to Kings the knovvledge of raigning iustly not to presse the kingdomes of the world vvith tributes and taxes but that vvhich Kings so vvell as the people vvanted to giue them giftes of life eternall out of the treasure of the kingdome of heauen going about to vanquishe in vvarre a farre other manner of ennimie than Tiberius Caesar and to take an other manner of beaste than Rome vvhyche at that tyme vvas Ladie of the Ievves Besides this hee fledde that he vvoulde not giue to the people an occasion of sedition against Caesar and so vvithall an occasion of sinne and perdition For hee that moueth sedition againste the povver as héere in your writing you M. Sand â–ª do and your Pope doth in his Bulles against Christian Princes sinneth and iustly perisheth for it VVhich Christe himselfe hath spoken he that taketh the svvorde shall perishe vvith the svvorde To conclude he fled least hee should
he woulde then haue broken his No M. Saund â–ª that was not the cause why Christ refused to iudge y matter but bicause he counted it no part of his office neither was he appointed of God therto but it belongeth to the Ciuill Magistrate As for suche iudgement as vydding the brethren to beware of couetousnesse was in dede appointed of God to Christ of him to al his Ministers to iudge of vices in such sort as by preaching to them their â—…ties to iudge of all estates of all things also Neither is all â—…on of Ciuil controuersiâ—…s or iudging temporal matters â—…ply debarred from the spiritual Minister nor the vse of temporall things But that the kingdome of Christ confisâ—…es in these things or that the ministers of Christ be in such Ciâ—…ill iudgements aboue Kings or may iudge â–ª Kings giue their inheritance from them or if they haue any authoritie too in Ciuil matters that it is properly by their office or beloÌ„ging properly to Christes kingdome and that they haue it not froÌ„ the Prince â–ª is cleane confuted by this example Neither can all these shiftes defeate it much lesse that that followeth in M. Saunders saying Declaring therefore to what ende all things that are in the worlde ought to be reâ—…rred seke saith he the kingdome of God al these things shal be cast vnto you VVhere he denyeth not that euen worlldy things pertaine to the kingdome of God but he would not haue those sought for themselues but onely for the kingdome of god But the kingdome that beleueth in Christ it hath left in that parte to be of the worlde in which part Christ denied his kingdome to be of this worlde VVhatsoeuer saith S. Augustine is from henceforth regenerate in Christ is made a kingdome not now of the world That all things oughte to be referred to the kingdome of God we graunt but that the kingdome of God consisteâ—… in all things we denie Meate drinke ought to be referred to the kingdom of God whether ye eate or drink saith S. Paule oâ—… whatsoeuer ye do â–ª do it all to the praise glory of God but the kingdome of God is not meate and drinke Yoâ—… say worldly things pertaine to the Kingdome of God. Which although it is much better said than that the kingdome shoulde appertaine to worldly things as the Papists here would drine it to the state of a worldly kingdome yet is it but an improper saying that worldly things belong to the kingdome of God. In dede the faithfull which are the kingdome of God haue them and they belong vnto them and they are necessarie and conuenient for them as meate drinke cloath house fire water proprietie and possession of temporall worldly goods to each faithfull man in his degree and also to the ministers of the Church of Christ that to haue these worldly things belonging to them according as their giftes and trauailes require with dubble honor yet do they not belong vnto them nor to any of the faithfull as he is a member of this kingdome but as he is a man and subiect to infirmities and these giftes of God are made for his vse so well the ministers as anye others But yet there is a difference in the hauing of these worldly things and the being a Prince in the hauing of theÌ„ for such Princely hauing of them is expresly forbidden vnto the spirituall minister of Christe and permitted onely vnto the Ciuill Magistrate The Pope and his Prelates will not onely haue them but they will be kings and excell kings in the hauing of them and will haue them in the name of the Church and of the kingdome of Christe and not as from the Prince to whose authoritie properly although not to whose proprietie they belong for the minister may haue the proprietie of those worldly things so well as another and perhaps better than many another more abundance of them too with which he may do more goodsundry wayes than diuers other in Gods Church But there is a difference betwene starke â—…aring â–ª and starke blind Therâ—… are some cormorants that hunt for the spoiâ—…e and wold haue the ministers earthly things cleane taken from them as though they were onely spirituall The Papistes on the other side were not only contâ—…t to haue them but they would besides their to muche excesse of them be exempted with priuileges from the Princes authoritie in the hauing of them and the Pope did clayme not onely a kingdome of them but that al kinges helde their kingdomes of him And this is the thing that we denie the Papistes For Christe hathe playne debarred it and denied his kingdome to be a worldly kingdome Yea but sayth M. Sanders in that parte that a kingdome beleeueth in Christ it hath left off to be of this world â–ª We graunt you M. Sanders in respecte of the beleefe in Christe and the soule that beleeueth but yet hathe it not left off to be of this world in respect of the body in respect of the ciuill gouernment in respect of hauing and vsing orderly Gods creatures in respecte of maynteining our liues our goodes our families our countreys all which earthly thinges the kingdome of God that is the faythfullâ—… may enioy and haue farre better vse of them than any other referring them to spirituall endes howbeit euery man in his degrée suche earthly thinges as are competent to his estate and are not debarred from his vse as the hauing of an earthly kingdome is from the spirituall Minister As for the sentence of S. Augustine is not to this purpose but wrested therto for he speaketh not there of a kingdome as we héere do that is to say of a ciuill power gouerning a Realme or of a Realme and Polycie gouerned by a King as thoughe bicause it receiued the fayth oâ—… Christ it were not of the worlde that is it were not gouerned after a worldly maner In whiche sense as we haue shewed Christe denied his kingdome to be of the worlde For although it be become a faythfull kingdome â–ª yet maynteyneth it still the former state which is noâ—… dissâ—…lued by the kingdome of Christ but rather bettered and confirmed Of whiâ—…he estate S. Augustine there speaketh not His words are these Therefore they were of the world when they were not of his kingdome but pertayned to the prince of the worlde That therfore is of the worlde whatsoeuer is in deede created of the true God but is borne of the corrupted and damned stocke of Adam But that which is regenerate in Christe is made a kingdome now not of the worlde for so God hathe pulled vs out of the power of darknesse and translated vs into the kingdome of the sonne of his brightnesse By whiche sentence it appeareth he speaketh not of the worlde in the sense of the mighte and glorie thereof but in the sense of the power of sinne
is yet aboue the Byshops And although the King so well as the priuate man ought to require the lavve of the Lord out of the priestes lippes yet if the Priest instâ—…ade of the Lords lavve will giue his owne lavv the king ought to rebuke or punish him For if the King ought to require it of the B. then as it is the Byshops duetie to yelde it so is it the Princes duetie and ofâ—…ce to call vpon him to sée to it that the B. faithfully giue it to him to all the priuate men in his kingdome Whiche againe proueth so litle the Byshops authoritie ouer the King that it playnely proueth the Kings authoritie ouer the B. in requiring of theÌ„ to preach the lavv of God which is their proper office calling and not to gouerne Kings and translate kingdomes Sixtly and lastly I answere that if this were graunted to the Pope which M. sand woulde so faine conclude that one Iudge in the Church should be ordeined betvvene Kings themselues and them and their peoples that this one Iudge shoulde be the Pope where he pretendeth it woulde cut off infinite occasions of warres and tumults as this conclusioÌ„ can not be gathered on this example so this effecte of peace to ensue by this meanes is but an imagination in M. sand opinion we should finde another manner of effecte thereof that would be the very welspring of infinite warres and tumults And least he shoulde thinke that I speake partially against the Pope as he doth for the Pope I report me to the experience of it and not to vaine imaginations what tragedies hath the Pope raysed betwene the Gréeke Germaine Emperors chiefly to the Henries the 4. the â—… â–ª to Frederike the 2. to Lewis the 4. to the tumults of King Iohn in EnglaÌ„d to the Popes practises betwene Germanie FrauÌ„ce Spaine for the kingdomes of Cicil Naples for the Duchie of Apulia Millaine to the maintenance of the factions in Italy betwene the Guelphes and Gebellines the white sect and the blacke secte the French Imperials the Uenetians and the Genowaies the Florentines and the Pisans al the states of Italy Al which and infinite moe warres and tumults in Christendom haue ben raysed nourished abetted chiefly by this one Iudge the Pope and yet would M. sand haue him to be the onely Iudge and definer whether any King should be deposed or be placed Were not this the readiest way to set al Princes by the eares chiefly if he wold change his mynd vpon displeasure or his successor should fauour an other or there were two or thrée Popes at once theÌ„ should al Christendome be in a broyle by the eares togither and the Pope would clap them on the backe and win by the spoyle of all countries and no countrie shoulde haue their lawfull and naturall Prince but either foraine or periured vsurpers nor any Prince haue his royall authoritie but be the Popes Tenants at will. If the world were come to this passe as it appeareth the Papistes would haue it were not this a goodly quiet world trow you But then it were a goldeÌ„ world for the Priests when all men else shoulde finde it a bloudie world and euery man werâ—…â—…eadie to cut an others throate and all things runne to hauocke But were it admitted that none of these mischieues should ensue but that al occasions of vvarre and tumults vvould be cut off yet sith this calling to rule all Christian Kings and kingdomes is vnlawfull for any Byshop besides Christe to haue what were this peace but as the wicked say Pax pax vbi non est pax peace peace where God saith there is no peace what were this peace but the worldes peace yea the Diuels peace where the strong man helde all things in his house in peace where Antichriste ruled in quiet prosperâ—…tie till Christe a stronger than he woulde come and breake his peace Rather than tumults shoulde be cut off with suche a shamefull peace and peace bought with suche a wicked condition it were far better for Princes to striue to the death for the truth against such peace and to cut off suche an arbiters head who to maintaine his pryde for worldly peace would make open warre with Christe And thus we sée the effecte would be naught and yet as naughtie as this peace woulde be we shoulde not haue it peaceably neyther if the Pope might set in his foote take vpon him to depose kings and translate kingdomes But this example of Ioiada giueth him no such authoritie M. Saund. hauing now gathered together all the proues examples that he coulde wrest with any colour to his purpose leaueth the olâ—…e Testament falleth to the like proues and wrestings of the newe Testament Howe Christe for the saluation of one man let the deuils drowne two thousande hogges How Christ draue the buyers and sellers out of the Temple How S. Paule gaue the incestâ—…ous fornicator at Corinth and Hymeneâ—… and Alexander to Sathan How Peter reproued Ananias and his wife for lying to the holy Ghost they fell downe dead But how al these things are wrested is appâ—…ant For in all this here is no king deposed and therfore they serue not to this question But how euery one of them serueth to confute the Papistes bicause the volume is risen too large alreadie in these answeres and chiefly in the answere to Maister Stapleton I am constraâ—…ned here to breake off stay As for that which followeth of the Fathers of the Histories and how those also are wrested as â—…oulie as these I purpose to reserue God willing to another volume In the meane time let vs coniecture the residue by these arguments the rest of al the Papists by these two M. Stapleton and M. Saunders who are nowe their principall writers Whereby as we may easily weighe the peise of their stuffe so we mayâ—… euidently sée the driâ—…te of their malice Thirsting blood breathing treasons practising conspiracies procuring seditions blowing out as it were a trumpet to open rebellion against the Queenes Maiestiâ—… their Natural Soueraigne and our most Gracious Gouernour against all the states of the Realme and to make haâ—…e of the whole congregation of Christ and all to maintaine the pride the tyrannie the errors and superstitions of the Pope But with what weake and selender reasons how impudently wrested how shamefully applyed how vnfitly concluded All the world may sée and themselues be ashamed if they be not past shame All the children of God may cléerely beholde and not be afraide but the fullier confirmed in the truth thereby All Christian Princes may the better perceiue and the more abhorre the Popishe practises with all their power represse them as the vtter ruinâ—… of their sstates and considering their high calling may zealously loke to the dutie of their authoritie and as their Titles put them in minde be in déede most Christian
kings Supra 799. sand pag. 82. How M. sand esteemes of al other men that denie that which he affirmes M. sand contradictions Christion prin ces power is not onely an earthly power sand pag. 82. Not we but the Papistes confound both powers sand pag. 82. 2. Cor. 3. 1. Reg. 8. The due and true spiritual Power The Popishe spiritual power How the princes power is earthly howe heauenly Supra 791. The Princes power came from christ Prouerb 8. Christ a sauior as well in that he is a king as in that he is a Priest. How both the Princes the Bishops pouer pertayne to heauen and minister life sand pag. 82. Rom. 12. 1. Cor. 12. Ephes. 4. The Popishe Churches iurisdictions sand pag. 82. 83. M. Sand presupposall of the Princes doing iniurie to the Church or suffering it The Pastors admonition to Princes doing euil The Prince not the Priests onely gouerneth the churche of God. M. Saund. presupposall retorned on the Priestes doing iniurie to the Prince or suffering it The Popishe Priestes will only admonishe them selues How roughly the Popishe Priestes will admonishe them selues Difference betweene admonishing gouerning deposing The Priestes ouer hastie remedie to ameÌ„d the Prince â–ª sand pag. 83. Math. 18. sand pag. 8â—… 3. Reg. 1â—… Remedie agaynst offences and dangers The inconueniences of the Popish remedies The danger of the Popishe doctrine sand pag. 83. Psal. 86. Math. 16. 1. Cor. 5. Iohn 21. Math. 16. The Churche of God not left destitute of medicines for suche diseases Luc. 2â—… Collos. 1. Psalm 12â—… Psalm 56. Math. 5. M. Saund. corruption of the text against Princes Excommunication Who should be auoyded and how by Saint Paules meaning 1. Cor. 5. How a vitious king is to be shunned and iudged The testimony of S. Paule returned on the Popish Priests Rom. 13. Gene. 18. Peter not the chiefe pastor of the Church How M. sand ex o â—…deth these wordes fede my shepe How Peter fed the shepe of Christ. 1. Peter 2. How M. sand applies binding losing of Princes sand pag. 83. A shameful abusing of Christs saying M. Saunders shift sand pag. 8â—… Ieremie 1. The Princes charge for misusing his sworde Psalm 2. If the Prince abuse his sword the spirituall minister maye not take it froÌ„ him The Papistes wresting the senteÌ„ce of god to Ieremie How Ieremie pulled downe and set vp kinges and kingdomes Lyra in Ierem. 1. These thinges were done loÌ„g after Ieremies time Ieremie is said to doe them bicause he fortolde them The doer of them was only God such instruments as he vsed which were no Priestes not Prophets Ierem. 45. Ierem. 42. How the Pope shoulde set vp and pul down kings kingdomes if he will followe Ieremie The sentence spoken to Ieremie applyed to Christe Glossa in Lyra in Ierem. 1. How the Ministers of Christ oughte to pull downe let vp kingdomes Lyra. Ierem 1. Glossa in Lyra What maner of conquest of kingdomes this is sand pag. 83. Iohn 18. Math. 13. Iohn 15. Iohn 1. In ca. 18. Ioh. M. sand answere to this obiection My kingdome is not of thys worlde Iohn 18. The Popes kingdome worldly M. Sand 〈◊〉 by distinction of this wordr the worlde The naturall sense of world ly kingdome Glossa in Lyra Lyra. in Ioh. 18. Ferus in Iohn 18. Christes kingdom expelleth no temporall Princes from their Dominions The significations of the kingdome of Christ. The difference of these kingdomes The error of the Papists Ludolphus de vita Christi parte 2. cap. 61 The Pope and his Prelates kingdom confuted by the Papists them selues August in cap. 18. Ioan. S. Augustine thought not that the kingdome of Christ hindreth vvorldly kingdomes sand pag. â—…4 Christ a king as he is God man. The Papistes confound the veritie of his manhoode Ioan. 18. Ferus in â—…o 1â—… The manner of Christes kingdome Hovv Christ ruleth The feoftmeÌ„ts of Christes kingdome Supra 797. Sand. 84. Math. 28. Rom. 14. Psal. 8. In Ioan. li. 4. ca. 12. Psal. â—… 1. Cor. 15. Rom. 9. The gouernement of Christ 1. Cor. â—… Adams kingdome Sand. 84. Ioâ—… 21. Math. 16. Math. 28. Peter not tâ—… first Pastor Marci 16. Ioan. 10. Christe vseth not a vvorldly kingdome by the Administration of the spirituall misters Sand. 84. Ioâ—…n 6. Luke 1â—… M. sand shifting off the examples of Christes fleeing from being a vvorldly King and refusing to be a â—…vorldly Iudge The cause of Christes refusal vvas not on ly in the originall least it should seeme to come of theÌ„ Ferus in 10. 6. The causes vvhy Christe fled from a vvorldly king dome Christe vvould not giue any occasion of sedition The Popishe Prelates of an other iudgement than Christe The Papistes compared to the carnall Ievves Carnal pastors M. Saunders shift to Christs refusall to be a iudge Luc. 12. What the man thought of Christ â—…hat vvould haue him a iudge Hofmeister in Lucâ—… 12. Why Christ tooke not on him the 〈◊〉 of a Magistrate Christ abolished not the Magistrats office though he himselfe refused it All iudgement of all temporal matters not vtteâ—…ly debarred from the spiritual Ministers â–ª What kind of iudging is debarred sand pag. 84. Lucâ—… 12. Though all things all to be referred to gods kingdom yet the kingdoÌ„ câ—…nsists not in all things 1. Coâ—… 10. Rom. â—…4 How worldly things belong to the kingdome of God. How the spirituall ministers of Christ may haue a bâ—…ance of worldly things In what respect they belong to theÌ„ to al the faithfull in what respect they belong not vnto them How the Popishâ—…â—…relates would haue worldly thiÌ„gs The Papistes haue no measure in hauing the cormorants no measure in pulling away In what parte and respect the beleeuer in Christ hathe left off to be of the world S. Aug. wrested by master Sanders How faithfull kingdomes leaâ—…e off and how not to be of the world Aug â–ª in tractatu â—…n loa 11â—… Howe euery faythfull is a king in a mysticall sense but not in a literall sense sand pag. 84. M. sand styll vvrestes thys vvorde the vvorldâ—… The simple literall meaning of Christ in â—…aying â–ª Hys kingdome is not of thys vvorlde The opinion oâ—… the Ievves that offred him the kingdome His Disciples opinion in cra â—…ng preâ—…erment in hys kingdome Math. 20. Hovve Christe ruleth Christian Princes Hovv M. sand vvould haue al Christendome and a greate parte of Heathenesse subiecte to the Pope Iohn 18. sand pag. 84. Tit. 3. Whether it vvere a vvicked deede for Bishops to depose a vvicked king Thoughe the subiect be not bound to obey the vices yet he is bounde to obey the state Thoughe Bishops can not depose Princes yet Princes can depose Bishops The vices that he surmiseth on Princes are apparante in the Pope and his Prelates sand pag. 85. What the prea cher may do agaynst a vvic ked Prince No bodily punishment of the King belongeth to the Bishop What may be
virgin Marie Quilibet tanque per portam in coelum ascendit Euery man euen as by a gate ascendeth to heauen By these immoderate prayses or rather outragious blasphemies Master Stapleton ye stirred the people quite neglecting Christ to inuocate the Uirgine Marie And ye exemplifie it by fables to confirme the people therein Ye tell vs how an Abbot and his holy Couent sayling in a tempest one called on Saint Nicholas an other on Saint Andrewe and euerie one vppon his peculier Patrone but none called vpoÌ„ God the Abbot chod them all and bad them call on the mother of mercie Which when they did forthwith the Seas were calme Ye tell vs of many other that being vexed with spirites haue sought manye remedies nowe holy water nowe one thing nowe another yea they haue called vpon Christ vpon the Trinitie and haue had so little helpe that they haue rather bene much worse onely when they were taught to lift vp their handes and crie Saint Marie helpe me then forthwith the spirite hath fled away all afrayde as he had beene smitten with a stone and sayde the cursed deuill enter into his mouth that hath taught thee that and so being vanquished neuer came againe Ye tell vs a noble Storie of a Spanish woman called Lucie to whome for saluting the virgin Marie the virgin at the deliuerance of hir childe came and was the midwife and at the Christning the Godmother and Christ the Godfather and the childe was named after the Godmother and called Marianus And how at hir Churching Christ himselfe sang Masse and how at the offertorie Lucie was preferred to go and offer and kisse the Priestes hande before the virgine Marie and what honour the Uirgin gaue hir aboue hir selfe saying This is your day of Churching now I was churched long ago And all for saying the Aue Marie Ye tell vs of a Strumpet that all hir life did no good work saue that she would say an Aue Marie and heare a Masse on Saterday which ye call our Ladies day as Sunday is called the Lordes day and on hir death bed this harlot sayde O Ladie Queene and mother though I did neuer any good yet I trust to thy mercie and to thee I commende my spirite And when the fiends would haue taken hir soule the mother of mercie tooke hir soule from them saying do ye not knowe that shee saluted me dayly and euery Saterday heard a Masse and at hir death commended hir soule to me And when they alleaged hir sinnes I tell you quoth shée that soule was neuer damned that serued mee and commended it selfe to me and so she draue them away and caryed the soule with hir Ye tell vs of a knight that neuer did other good but at morning and Euening say an Aue Marie and by the grace of the Virgin he was saued And hereon ye conclude a rule Quod orandum sit c. That at the poynt of death we must pray mother of grace mother of mercie defende thou vs from the enimie and keepe vs in the hower of death And then we are safe Yea as Anselme sayth Impossibile est vt pereat It is impossible hee should perish syth by the vertue of the Aue Marie the worlde was renued And that Redempturus deus genus humanuâ—… vniuersum precium contulit in Mariam sine ea nihil possumuâ—… sine ea miseri sumus sine ea factum est nihil God going about to redeeme mankinde conferred al the price therof vpon Mary VVithout hir we caÌ„ do nothing without hir we are wretches without hir nothing was made To conclude ye make hir to be all in all And as Albertus Magnus in his booke of hir prayses saith Est autem opus c. The booke of the beginning of the Lordes incarnation describing the mysterie of our redemption to the prayse honour and glorie of the most glorious and alonly truly honorable aboue euery Creature the virgin mother of god By the most speciall confidence of whole helpe we take this worke in hande And in the mercie of hir euen as in the most firme anchore of our hope we looke for the ende of the perfourmance and the rewarde of the labour VVho is the moouer of the wil the cause of the worke and the beholder of the intention Thus blasphemously ascribeth Albertus all these things to hir euen in the Preface of his booke But what excéeding more blasphemies he filleth his volume withall were infinite to recite Looke your selfe M. St. if with shame ye can sustaine to reade them Neither is all this the errours of priuate men but the dooing of all your whole Church For euen in the solemnities of your Masse haue ye not in the Sequences of our Ladies Masses as ye cal them Aue terrarum domina c. Haile ladie of the earth holy queene of heaueÌ„ let the heauens and all the company of saincts bring forth melodie to thee the laÌ„ds the floudes the woods and groaues resound c. By thee mother we craue that the childrens sinnes be abolished and we be all brought to the euerlasting ioyes of Paradise Againe Seda nobis bella Appease thou warres hayle starre of the seas thou mother giue to vs the true peace giue vs help changing the name of Eue. Driue away our euils drawing vs without bitternesse forgiue vs our crimes aske al good things let the Sonne and the Father be giuen by thee O mother c. that which Eue hath taken away thou only O mother giuest Through thee the people recouer their former lost strength thou art the gate of the high King by the which gate we enter into the court c. And againe The ladie of the world c. is the cause of our saluation the gate of life Againe Pray euery man to hir in euery houre and call thou vppon hir defence Sing sing Aue Maria with the force of thy harte â–ª with thy voice with thy vow c. And in the third reason that ye giue why ye dedicate the Saterday to hir as the Sonday to the Lord ye say in redde letters Tertia ratio est c. The third reason is bicause the Saterday is the gate and entraÌ„ce to the Sonday but the Sonday is the day of rest and betokeneth eternall life VVherevpon when we be in the grace of our Ladie we are as it were in the gate of Paradise Therefore bicause euen she is to vs the gate to the kingdome of heauen which is figured by the Sonday we keepe for the solemnitie of hir the Seuenth day which goeth before the Sonday Thus doth your whole Church yea and that in your holy Masse booke ascribe to hir euen as much as any of the other What say ye now to all this M. Stap. haue ye any shifte of descant to runne vnto any distinction behinde to alleage any figge leafe to couer your shame that all this kinde of inuocation may be thought
vpon him with his foote and as his page to holde his stirrop to his foote and claimes to giue or take awaye his estate And you say here for all estates of the clergie VVe ought to be subiect not onely to Christians but euen to Infidels also being our Princes without any exception of Apostle Euangelist Prophete Priest or Monke What and is your Pope none of these Maister Stapleton an Apostle he is not without a pseudo nor he calles himselfe an Apostle but Apostolicall Much lesse he is an Euangelist and least a Prophete except a lying Prophete Sometimes in déede he hath bene a Monke but is there any Pope not a priest If he be a Priest then ought he by your owne confession to be subiect to the Emperour and in refusing this subiection what can ye make of him but as your selfe to your Prince so he to his Prince a very rebell and vsurper against his prince If ye say the Emperour is not his prince why is he then named the Emperor of Rome is not the name of an Emperor the name of the chiefest Principalitie And then if he be Emperor or king of the Romaines howe ought not the Pope being a Romaine or dwelling at Rome within this Princes kingdome or Empyre be subiect to this king or Emperour at the least as ye say in temporall and ciuill matters Doe ye thinke to escape in saying VVe ought to be subiect to our Princes without exception but he ought not I had thought ye had spoken of all Christiana and had simply mâ—…nt as Chrysostome did to whome ye referre your selfe who speaketh in generall of euery man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fuerâ—… or whosoeuer thou art which wordes ye dissemble and omit So that if your Pope be of 〈◊〉 calling and he be no more a Priest than Pope Ioane 〈◊〉 he a soule be he a bodye he ought by your owne graunt to 〈◊〉 subiect to the Emperour of Rome in these matters 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 the Emperour to be subiect vnto him Whiche 〈◊〉 the Pope shall vnderstande â—…owe for his 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 and for all his ciuill and temporall matters you woulde bring him to hys olde obedience 〈◊〉 the Emperour as he hath bene I thinke he will 〈◊〉 sâ—…all thanke Maister Stapleton for your labour But all this subiection saye you is but graunted in temporall and ciuill matters Doth Saint Paule Maister Stapleton alleage this distinction or Chrysostome to whoÌ„ ye reforro your selfe no M. St. they make no such restraint but stretch this obedience as to al ecclesiastical persons so principally to all ecâ—…l â–ª matters to the setting forth Gods religon â–ª And so Pauledoth call the Prince Gods minister â–ª And Chrysostome sayth Neque enim ista subiectio piâ—…tatem subuertit for neyther this subiectioÌ„ ouerturneth godynesse And vpon these words He is the minister of God a reuenger to him that doth euil He saith Againe least thou shouldst start back hearing of punishment correction and the sword he mentioneth againe that the Prince fulfilleth the lawe of God for what though the Prince himselfe know it not yet God hath so formed and ordeined it If therfore either he punish or aduance he is the minister of God maintaining vertue abolishing wickednesse euen bicause God would haue it so By what reason repugnest thou in striuing against him that bringeth such good things and goeth before thee and prepareth a way for thy affaires for many there are which at the first exercised vertue for respect of the magistrate but at the length they cleaued thervnto euen for the feare of god For things to come do not so moue the grosser sort as present things He therfore that prepareth the minds of many both with feare and honor that they may be made fitter for the worde of doctrine is worthily called the minister of God. In which words he plainly sheweth that the Princes ministery wherby he is called Gods minister consisteth in making vs fit apt receiuers of the wordâ—… of doctrine which the minister teacheth the Prince by punishing or rewarding goeth before prepareth a waye and bringeth to vs making vs apt to receyue either for feare 〈◊〉 loue this benefit by his ministâ—…rie In which work as the Apostles Preachers for the vtteraÌ„ce of the word of doctrine are called the workers togither with God so the Prince in preparing this way to the worde making vs apt to it is likewise said of Chrysostom that he worketh togither with the will of God. Wherin as we must not repâ—…gne against the prince so this obedience that we owe vnto him is not only in temporall and ciuill matters but in making vs apt for the worde of doctrine in which all eccl. matters are comprehended Now after M. St. hath thus stoode quarrelling in vain with the B. allegations he fourthly entreth into a reply vpon the B. with other allegations collected out of the same father Chrysost theroÌ„ frameth an argument against the Princes superiority In the forhed wherof he prefixeth this marginal note the Priesthode is aboue a kingdom which note as it is true in the sense that Chrysost. vnderstandeth it so maketh it nothing that he is abouâ—… him in the supreme gouernment directioÌ„ of all eccl. causes which is the present questioÌ„ the thing that M. 〈◊〉 â–ª calleth so osteÌ„ at other times vpoÌ„ But now saith M. St. As contrariwise the Prince himselfe is for ecclesiasticall spirituall causes subiect to his spiritual ruler VVhich Chrysostome himselfe of all men doth best declare Alij sunt termini c. The boundes of a Kingdome and of Priesthoode sayth Chrysostome are not all one this Kingdome passeth the other this King is not knowne by visible things neither hath his estimation for precious stones he glistreth withall or for his gay golden glistring apparel The other King hath the ordring of those worldly things the authoritie of Priesthood commeth from heauen VVhatsoeuer thou shalt binde vpon earth shall be bounde in heaueâ—… To the King those things that are here in the worlde are committed but to me celestiall things are committed VVhen I say to mee I vnderstande to a priest Andanon after he sayth Regi corpora c. The bodies are coÌ„mitted to the King the soules to the priest The King pardoneth the faultes of the bodie the Priest pardoneth the faultes of the soule The King forceth the Priest exhorteth the one by necessitie the other by giuing councel the one hath visible armour the other spirituall He warreth agaynst the barbarous I warre agaynst the deuill This principalitie is the greater and therefore the King doth put his heade vnder the Priestes handes And euery where in the olde scripture Priestes did annoynt the Kings Among all other bookes of the said Chrysostome his booke de sacerdotio is freighted with a number of like and more notable sentences for the Priestes superioritie aboue the Prince For the other sentences in Chrysostome I can not directly aunswere
eight a pyller of his subiecte â–ª vnder whom his subiectes lyued in suche prosperitie and abundance in 〈◊〉 renoune and glorie when all their 〈◊〉 â—…o dradde them for theâ—…oble conduct gouernment of such a Prince as all things considered we finde not the like in all the ancient histories Did he pill them that delyuered theÌ„ from the greatest piller and spoiler of them froÌ„ al his insatiable Caterpillers that had pilled the Prince the Sâ—… biectes and all the Realme and had gotten almoste all the goodes and lâ—…ndes into their clutches yea their bodies and soules also Did he pill the realme that brought the greatest ryches into the Realme the Gospell of Chryste and Christian libertie that euer the Realme could haue Ye quarel at the basenesse of the money Hath ther not bin worsse money in times past in Englande They saye that we had money of lether haue not the most of other Princes brasen coyne But I sée you haue a brasen face and a fonde malicious head Is the Princes coine counterfet with you and if it had bene a great deale worsse than it was can ye call it adulterate or forged No Saunders for here I must néedes leaue out Master such Traytors as you be are counterfeiters of money howbeit you are farre worsse traytors and forge a naughtie coine in the steade of Gods word to giue the people trifling traditions of your owne stampe and take good money for them You obiecte his wiâ—…es vnto him What meane ye by this ye wiuelesse and shamelesse generation ye dispisers and defilers of Matrimonie wold ye haue had him haue liued like you ye caused him in deede vnwittingly while hée ignorantly obeyed your Pope to liue wyth his brothers wife Whiche when he knewe he adhorred and forsoke as flatte againste Gods worde Thou shalte not vncouer the secretes oâ—… thy brothers wife And yet the Pope contrarie to Gods expresse lawe and the lawe of nature dispensed with it and you Papistes maynteine it tooth and nayle as a lawful maryage This in déede was his greatest misfortune to haue taken hir so long through too much credite of false Papistes to be his lawfull wife whiche was not his wife at all and yet both the parties ignorantly offended Aâ—… for his firste true and lawfull wife we maye saye indéede he had misfortune in hir too that he so muche credited the sclanderous vndermining Papists that neuer stinted to procure hir dâ—…ath for the hatred of the gospel that she professed And so at length most subtilly wrought it made hir a sweet sacrifice to God and a most holy martyr No misfortune but mosie happiâ—… hap to hir to sustaine so sclaunderdus a death in so innocent a cause the misfortune was the king hir husbandes to be so beguiled by such false Papistes And yet to vs this maryage was most fortunate which God so blessed with such a fruit as neuer the like did spring in Englande As for all King Heuries other wiues saue one were as as vertuous chast godly Quéenes as any Christian kyng coulde haue And yet the default of that one is not to be imputed vnto him which to die is more than cankred malice Lest of al ought it to be ascribed to the euent of his supreme gouernment Shoulde M. colsfolly be ascribed to Dauid yea shoulde a mans owne faults be accounted for the euent of his vertues should misfortunes following be déemed the effectes of godlynesse going before But you denie all this that this was godly to become this supreme gouernour and say king Henrie tooke it first vpon him But stay your haste Master Saunders When we come to the practise of christian Kings before king Henrie ye shall finde it contrarie and ye shall finde by that that is alreadie sayde to Master Stapleton that in the olde Testament Dauid Salomon Iosaphat c. toke vpon them this supreme gouernement in their kindomes that king Henrie dyd Ye say he was neuer the happier but the more vnhappier after he tooke it on him Whereas he neuer prospered better than after he had expelled the Popes vsurped authoritie For euen then began he indéed to raigne and rule other where before he bore the name of a king and was ruled by other the Pope his Prelates and Priestes hearing all the 〈◊〉 Besides the happiest happe of all the knowledge of God that by his supreme gouernement then beganne to florishe Nowe after his rayling on king Henrie he descendeth to king Edward the sixte saying And he beeing deade God by a maruellous manner shewed vnto all the world how litle this Ecclesiasticall Primacie and high calling was agreeable to kings For Henrie the eight being deade Edwarde his sonne a childe almost nine yere old succeeded in his kingdome If wee loke to the right that this childe had in the kingdome hee was no lesse king than his father was But if we turne our eyes vnto the state of the church verily there is a great difference whether it be gouerned of a childe or of a man of perfecte age Sée the insaciable malice of these Papistes not onely against the lyuing but the deade and that against their late most gratious soueraignes It suffiseth not to haue thus coÌ„tumeliously railed on the Quéenes Maiesties father of blessed memorie but also to deface hir Maiesties brother that most vertuous Prince king Edwarde saying he toke vpon him this Ecclesiasticall Primacie as though he or his father toke vpon him any ecclesiastical primacie bicause they toke vpon them a supreme gouernement in all ecclesiasticall matters But will he spare for spite to sclaunder them that presumeth to wrest and misconster Gods heauenly prouidence in calling king Edward to the kingdome while he was yet a child He graunteth he was as ful king as his father was Then say I he had al the right and authoritie that his father had But sayth he there is a great difference betwéene the right of a kingdome and the state of the Church whether it be gouerned of a child or of a man of perfect age As though we talked not M. SauÌ„ders of such a kingdome as were the Churche also or as though a kingdome consider it howe ye will require not likewise to be gouerned of one of perfecte age Or as though ther be not also a great differeÌ„ce betwene the right of authoritie belonging to the person be he child or maÌ„ and the personal gouerning of him But let vs heare M. Saunders arguments against a child He maketh exception against a child for two reasons first the example of Christe secondly the saying of S. Paule Cal. 4. Of the first he saith For if euen Christ toke not on him the gouernment of the Church before he attained to thirtie yeres of age how much lesse would he that the Church should be gouerned of a child I answere First the gouernment that Christ tooke at 30. yeares of age was
lay in them to haue a king or no and not rather in these kings that had subdued them who althoughe they appointed or suffered petit rulers ouer them yet woulde they not suffer them to haue a king But whyle they had kings we reason of those kinges authoritie But what reason haue you else for this is a very slender one But this say you in this kinde I will make my principall reason that Christ when he was in this worlde and fulfilled the whole law and all righteousnesse yet notwithstanding he would in thinges ecclesiasticall onely that the Priest and by no meanes that the earthly king should gouerne This were a principall reason in déede if you could proue this M. Saunders but as yet you haue not proued it and I thinke it will be harder than you wéene for you to doe Now to proue it you reason thus For he openly refused to administer an earthly kingdome and therfore fled when he sawe the people go about to make him a king And he denied that he was ordeyned to be a deuider betweene the brethren But if so be that after the perfecte reason and minde of Moses lawe it had at least beene comely either the Churche or the Bishop to be gouerned of an earthly King Christ would not haue left that thing vnfulfilled For it was no harde matter for him to haue administred a earthly kingdome for some very little time the which when he did not neither yet omitted he any thing that can iustly be desired to the perfect gouernement of his Churche It hath neuer beene at any time or yet is of any perfection that an earthly king shoulde arrogate to him selfe any power in ecclesiasticall matters besides this that with his sworde he shoulde defende and fight for that whiche is defined by the Prieste â–ª sentences And is this necessarie in the Churche M. Saunders that the Prince may do thus much with his sworde But I pray you where dyd Christ thus muche as to fight for the Priests decrees with a sworde If your reason be good you muste shewe this or else why reason you from the factes of Christe whyle he was héere on earth if you can shewe as you promised that Christe woulde that the Priest and by no meanes the prince shuld gouerne in eccl. matters this were to the purpose But this you shew not but would windelace it in with a bought that if Christ would haue had Princes gouerne in ecclesiasticall matters he woulde haue bene a Prince him selfe but he would neuer be a Prince and yet if he had would he might therefore he woulde not haue Princes meddle in matters of his Church sithe he woulde not meâ—…le in matters pertayning to their gouernement If this were a good reason I might reuerse it thus that sithe be medled in their matters when he had tribute to be paide to Cesar when he bad his Disciples not feare them that kill the body when he called Herode Foxe when he tolde Pilate he had no power but that was giuen him from aboue therefore they agayne might meddle in his matters bicause he medled in theirs This is as good a reason as yours But ye say Christ tooke not a kingdome vpon him nor woulde deuide lands yet he tooke vpon him all things necessarie for his Churches gouernment what shoulde you conclude hereon Ergo the Princes gouernment is not necessarie in Church causes is this the direct coÌ„clusion Nay M. Saund. either the coÌ„clusion takes away the Princes gouernmeÌ„t froÌ„ the Church of Christ or else which it doth in déed it hitteth your Pope if you marke it well who pretending to follow Christ taketh an earthly kingdome vpon him and deuideth landes which Christ refused to do The argument is thus Christ did al that was necessary but Christ did not take vpoÌ„ him a kingdome Ergo he thought it not necessary This is flat agaynst the Pope but nothing agaynst christian Princes The coÌ„clusioÌ„ is good for it was not necessary for Christ in his person yet for christian Princes it might wel be necessarie It is necessarie for christian Princes as your selfe coÌ„fesse to vse the teÌ„poral sword in the churches defence and yet Christ him selfe did neuer vse it Except you wil say he vsed it after a sort when with a materiall whip outwarde violeÌ„ce he draue the byers sellers out of the temple But then I replie that herein he exercised for the while eueÌ„ the office of a Magistrate shewed not onely his owne zeale power of his kingdome but also a paterne to al Magistrates Princes with what zeale power they shâ—…ld exercise their authoritie in reforming abuses in the church of god Although Christ him self did not personally handle the sworde as they personally may do Neither yet did Christ all those thinges that his ministers did ought to do It is necessarie for the ministers to baptise yet Christ him selfe that we read of did neuer baptise any he could haue don it if he had thought it necessarie What shal we say with M. Sand he did al that was necessary but he did not baptise Ergo to baptise is not necessarie This therefore is a wrong principle that Christe must haue done euery thing personally him selfe that is necessarie to be done in his Church True it is that if Christe neither did it nor taught it to be done by him self nor by his Apostles but would the contrarie as M. Sand sayth then the argument were good so it confuteth a nuÌ„ber of Popish traditions that were neither done nor taught by Christ nor his Apostles but rather that contrary But as for this gouernment of Princes as M. Sanders him selfe confesseth was practised in the olde lawe whiche lawe gaue the Prince his charge therin And Christ testiâ—…eth that he came not to breake the lawe but to fulfill it And althoughe he became not a Prince him self which might haue seemed to haue made â—…or the Popes purpose but rather condemneth it in his ministers yet both he him self his Apostles obeyed the Prince then ruling which now the Pope denieth statly to do But ye say Christ his Apostles obeyed them not in eccl. matters Neither was it reason M. San. both bicause Christ him selfe was the law maker his Apostles were the first teachers of it Princes then were Infidels But to reason now from the like state in the princes that now are christiaÌ„â—… to giue in all things like authoritie to Bishops paâ—…ors with Christ and his Apostles is as farre from reason on the other side Neither yet do we debarre from Bishops and Pastors that superioritie ouer Princes that is giuen by Christe and his Apostles to them and their successours of the administration of spirituall and ecclesiastical things neither do we as M. Saunders sayth giue the gouernement of the Churche of Christe to an earthly Prince For bothe the Prince is Christian and not
M. sand And now as though he had brought an inuincible proofe he procéedeth saying But if he must needs be deposed at least for heresie hovv shall that controuersie be iudged without the knowledge of the doctors of the Church who only of their office haue the ordinarie lawful power to loke to the flocke in the whiche the holy Ghost hath placed theÌ„ to guide the Church of God. But the pastors doctors of the church could not be Iudges of any king except the king in that thing were lesse inferior to theÌ„ For neither the equal hath power ouer the equal neither the inferior ouer the superior VVorthily therfore we affirme that al christiaÌ„ kings in those things that appertaine to matters of faith are so vnder bishops priests â–ª that when offending obstinately against the christiaÌ„ religion â–ª they shall perseuer after one two rebukings bothe they maye and they ought for that cause to be by the Byshops sentence deposed from the gouernement that they holde ouer the Christians You conclude ful worthily M. San. your argument is this if the Prince must needes be deposed he must be deposed by the Bishops priestes This reason hangeth all on this presupposall that he hath so fully proued this that the Prince nowe in all post hast must nedes be deposed â–ª And yet we haue hitherto heard no such proues that should enforce any suche necessitie but rather necessarie for the bishops priests or any other subiects behalfe to let him remaine still vndeposed for them although he were an heretike So that we may rather reuerse the argument If nedes he must not be deposed the must not the bishops priests attempt to depose him Howbeit ther is no necessitie in the coÌ„sequence that if he must nedes be deposed that for heresie that the bishops priests must depose hi. Yes saith M. SaÌ„ for how shal that coÌ„trouersie be iudged without theÌ„ what thogh that coÌ„trouersie could not be iudged without theÌ„ M. sand must they therefore be deposers of him froÌ„ his estate bicause they iudge of the doctrine he professeth must they iudge of his Diademe bicause they iudge of his religioÌ„ but what if they theÌ„selues haue corrupt iudgements therein trow you priests bishops haue not had so ere now yes eueÌ„ this sentence of s. Paule that here you cite for the Bishops and Priestes authoritie giueth a plaine warning of it I knowe saithe he that after my departure shall come among you rauening VVolues not sparing the flocke there shall rise vp men from among your selues speaking peruerse thinges to dravve Disciples after them But say you saint Paule saith they must looke to the flocke so much the more in vvhiche the holy ghost hath placed them to guide the church of God. True in déed they must so do But what if they be blind theÌ„selues how loke they to it then And did Christ neuer talke of blind guides you post off that to the Phariseis Iewish Bishops But if you were not more blind thaÌ„ they you would sée a great difference betwéene loking to the flocke guiding the Church of God by teaching true doctrine taking heede vnto and discerning of false doctrines and teachers preching the worde of God with learned iudgement and betwéene the clayming of authoritie to depose Kings and Princes froÌ„ their royal estates Whie say you if they be Iudges they are aboue them and neither equall nor inferior They may be equal and aboue them too in learned Iudgement and also in the dispensation of their misteries yet in publike authoritie far inferior And therfore your conclusion A secuÌ„dum quid ad simpliciter faileth that bicause they are inferior in one thing to Bishops they be in al thinges or in this thing inferior Yea say you they are so vnder Bishops and Priestes that when offending obstinately againste the Christian religion they shall perfeuer after one or two rebukings the Bishoppes may and ought to depose them from their gouernment ouer Christians This is a great inferiorship M. sand to be so much vnder them For by this rule if a Prince as coÌ„monly Popishe Princes doe shoulde kepe a Paramour â–ª a Popishe Byshop may depose him But they wil not be ouer hastie to reproue the Prince for that which they vse themselues neither couÌ„t they it an offence against christiaÌ„ religion yet in the christiaÌ„ religion iâ—… is forbidden so is against it especially to defend it mainteing it as the Papistes do But if he do wrong to any of his subiectes wil not amende his wrong after a B. hath once or twise giueÌ„ him warning of it then by this rule the B. maye straighte depose him And in déede so they haue done would do if the wrong touch them if their lands and goods were diminished then by by it is against the ChristiaÌ„ religion it is plaine heresie except by the seconde admonition it be restored with a recumbentibus the king must be in al the hast deposed there is no remedie nor further respit for not only the Bishops may but plat plaine they ought to doe it Is not here a kingdome brought to a goodly state But he wil say he meaneth by offences against the Christian religion matters of faith But what helpeth this for as wheÌ„ the Lion proclaimed that al horned beasts shuld auoyd out of the wood although the Foxes pricked eares were no horns neyther néeded he haue gone ye he wisely foresaw that this was but a drifte to picke a quarel therefore he hied him out of the wood For since al lay in the Lions interpretatioÌ„ what if the Lion had said his prick eares had bin horns or as sharp as hornes surely then the Fox had dronke for it And if the Byshops may haue the like authoritie to bid the Prince be packing out of his realme if he offend the christian religion what will it boote the Prince if the Bishops be disposed to picke a quarel against him to saye he offendeth not againste the Christian religion but rather defendeth the true religion of Christ against the corruptions of it and in déede so he doth but what auayleth eyther his excuse or the truth of the matter if the Bishops shall say it is heresie and against the christian faith the Bishops that so say shal be the Iudges whether it be so or no were not the king as good get him out of his kingdome at the first or else they will depose him set him out with a heaue ho But that Bishops may thus hamper Princes as they list where find we authoritie or example in the scripture yes saith M. Saunders For God which at the firste so seuered the heauenly kingdome from the earthly kingdome that he suffered the kings of the earth to come togither against the Lorde and againste his anoynted and thereby notably declared his power while by the
Saunders not seyng the 〈◊〉 of his owne Bishops faith and promise â–ª beginneth narrowly to exâ—…mine the faith promise of Princes â–ª Go to thâ—… let vs sée what he layeth to the Princes charge He made promise saith he that he would be no longer king thaÌ„ he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 faith of christ And the people promised to suffer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 them furdâ—…â—…han the faith of Christ. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they this promise â–ª M. Saunders â—…t Baptismâ—… say you where they promised to renounce the world and the pompes therof In dede M Saunders they made this promise â–ª 〈◊〉 their Baptiâ—… â–ª to â—…enounce thâ—…â—…orld and the pompâ—… â—… 〈◊〉 this 〈◊〉 I suppose 〈◊〉 you anâ—… your Bishops 〈◊〉 also How you haue kept it not onely God you in your conscience know but all the world séeth how you haue broken it And if your deposing lay on that promise in Baptisme surely ye shoulde all be deposed out oâ—… question But I am sure you wil make exception for your worldly kingdomes pompes and dignities that here you write for â–ª 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and kepe that you will not renounce them for all that promiâ—… and will say there is â—…nt not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but the ambitious mind in getting and keping of them Whâ—…h amâ—… although you still retaine with infinite other 〈◊〉 â—…pen 〈◊〉 yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not willingly depose your seluâ—… from those worldly promotions 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 deposed froâ—… them And can you make these exceptions excuses and distinctions for the retaining of yours 〈◊〉 your Bisâ—… 〈◊〉 â–ª poralties and will not allow them in the Prince for the retaining 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yours are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cessorie â–ª vnto yours 〈◊〉 is partiall and 〈◊〉 dealyng with Prinâ—… M. 〈◊〉 â–ª But how prâ—…ue you that Prinâ—…es 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 promised to 〈◊〉 their kingdome if they should forsake the faith and that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their 〈◊〉 promised to 〈◊〉 nounce their â–ª 〈◊〉 tâ—… rebell 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 iâ—… their Prince shoulde might forsake the 〈◊〉 say you â—…t is contaiâ—…ed in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the thing that is promised And here you speake somewhat darkly like a lawyer quote vs vp lawe out of Pomponius in your margin and to make the matter plainer you bring in the ensample of a contract in mariage betwen the man and the womaÌ„ the man saith I take thee to my wife the woman saith and I take thee to my husband In these wordes here is no naming of continuance 〈◊〉 and yeâ—…â—…o this contract it is comprehendedâ—… â–ª Your law rolâ—… and your ensample are good M. SauÌ„ders but your 〈◊〉 is all For in the nature of the promise at Baptisme â—…o 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of authoritie or obedience is either named 〈◊〉 â—…hended There is I graunte a contract made for thefâ—…rmei of all their liues to kepe the faith of Christ and this all their liues they ought to kepe But that they promised either â—…o â—…nounce their owne estates or their Princes estates for the breach of this contract that is neither spoken nor thought vpon in baptisme nor is contained in the nature of it For Christâ—… nor the compacte with him brakes not the Ciuill and poâ—…e â—…state of mens gouernment or obedience but rather 〈◊〉 it As for Kings are not â—…ommonly kingâ—… at their Baptisme nor are made kings by Baptisme except you speake of spiritual kings as they are mysticall members of christ and now and then he that is a king was a priuate persons chrâ—…de and no man knew at his Baptisme that â—…uer he should become a king as for the â–ª 〈◊〉 had least oâ—… all any suche intention howe could 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thâ—…n of renouncing a kingdome be entended in his promise at Baptisme and muche lesse on the subiecte behalts for if in their promise at Baptisme should be entended the condition of refusing obedience to their Prince then â—…daid be 〈◊〉 a thing that neither lyeth in their power to performe for all subiectes can not for sake their obedience and they woulde neuer so â—…aine neither if they would and could they should refuse it It is not as Dottor Story farre vnlike a lawyer and farre more vnlike a Christian said at his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—… subiâ—…s choice and power to forsake his Princes obedience and his countrey and goe whether he lyst to liue under what Prince he fansieth for by this â—…anes all policics may be soone dissolued and subiects were euen as good rebell against their Princes as goe their way from them and forsake their subiection to them They made no suche promise at Baptisme to forsake their Princes authoritie â–ª â—…o thoughâ—… 〈◊〉 should beâ—…me an infidel To forsake his and all others infidelitie not to obey him or any other in his 〈◊〉 â–ª this they promised but not to forsake him in his authoritie but rather their authoritie being an ordinance of â—…d and their obedience to their magistrates whatsoeuer they bâ—… beyng also gods commaundement they are 〈◊〉 by their Baptisme not to forsake it Princes also all subiects are â—…uÌ„d in baptisme to renounce all other sinne as long as they liue to cleaue to al other vertues this is directly comprehended in their couenant If now the Prince or the people after Baptisme shall forsake any vertue cleanâ—… to any â—…n 〈◊〉 they be therfore deposed from their estates who should not theâ—… be deposed Let vs take your owne example of mariage The maÌ„ saith to the womaÌ„ I take thee to my wife the womaÌ„ saith to the maÌ„ I take thee to my husband here is say you no menction made of coÌ„tinuing togither till death and yet it iâ—… comprehended In dede M. Saunders in these words that you cite it is not meÌ„tioned but both in yours and our order of marying eueÌ„ those words also be by name expressed till death vs depart God hath expressed them saying whoÌ„ god hath ioyned let not man separate But there are other wordes also not entended onely but expressed as these whiche the man promiseth that he will loue the woman comfort hir honor kepe hir c. the woman likewise to the man that shée wyll loue cheryshe honour obey him These things eyther do promise to kepe to other these things belong to the nature of y contract also disobey hir husband or 〈◊〉 not â—…r honour him as she hath promised and ought to do if agains the man loue not hir or cherishe hir not as he hath also promised and ought to doe neither onely brackes fall ouâ—… betwéene them but also â—…he â—…ise coutinueth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the man 〈◊〉 forsake the other 〈◊〉 the promise maâ—…e in the contract is and yet they are in the contract made betwene them bound to as 〈◊〉 a 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 those vertues as to 〈◊〉 that 〈◊〉 â–ª No they are not â—…und â—…ther â—…o forsake the one thiâ—… other 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In which case they may forsake â–ª 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉
of Christe to haue so mightie a Realme as Englande or Fraunce to become Christian by this offer why is not this offer taken for sooth the B. refuseth it Is not here a great iniurie offered to Christs Church by this B but whie doth the B. thus bycause the Prince will not promise obedience to the Prelates and to renounce his kingdome if he swarue from his obedience to them Is this a sufficient cause for want of obedience to the Prieste to defeate Chryste of his obedience Nay say you he made an exception that he vvoulde not submit his Diademe to Christ. By your leaue M. Saunders there you say not true Loke on your own presupposall once again yea on the words you made the Prince to speake whiche althoughe they were of your owne deuising for you neuer I suppose heard or read of Prince desirous to be baptized that spake on that fashion you do but tell the Princes tale to your aduantage yet finde you no such wordes in the wordes that you speake for him yea he speaketh the contrarie in offering to acknowledge the faith of Christ. But say you he would not submit his Diademe make his kingdome subiecte in the cause of faithe to the Ministers of Christ and that is all one vvyth denying to submit his Diademe to Christ. Yea Master Sanders were it admitted ye were ministers of Christ is Christ you al one the submissioÌ„ to Christ to his ministers al one Backare M. Saâ—… there is a great difference And yet Chryst requireth no submission of Diademes or subiection of kingdoms in such sort vnto him that he wold haue kings resigne them vp to him and he woulde take them no he neuer vsed that practise He might haue had such kingdomes if he had list but he refused them as your selfe before haue confessed Althoughe your Pope will haue kings resigne their kingdomes vnto him and he will take them and ruffle in greater pompe than any king vseth to doe Whiche argueth playnely that he is not Christes minister And therefore the king hardyly may refuse his vnlawfull demaunde that he woulde in the name of Christ extort as Christes officer which his master Christe both refused himselfe and forbad in his ministers And therefore the Prince dothe Chryste no iniurie bycause he will not bring his kingdome thrall to a false Prieste pretending to be Christes Minister béeing indéede the Minister of the tempter that offereth worldly kingdomes But say you hee muste make his kingdome subiecte to them in the cause of faith As though the cause of faith were hindered if the King made not his kingdome subiecte to the Priestes where as this were the reddiest way bothe to destroye the kingdome and the faith No Master Saunders the faithe of Chryste was neuer more sincere than when the Ministers of Chryst were obedient subiectes to their kings And the cause of faythe was neuer more weakened and corrupted than sithe Priestes haue wrong themselues out of their kings subiections and that the Popes haue made the Kings sweare obedience vnto them But Maister Saunders whines at this crying out vvhere is the obedience of faith that Christ sent his Apostles to procure in all the vvorlde You do well Master Saunders to aske vvhere it is for surely it is not with you nor in all your Popishe kingdome except here and there lurking and dare not shewe hir head for feare your Popishe Inquisitors woulde gette hir by the polle The obedience of fayth was frée when Priests were subiectes and since Priestes became Princes they haue taken hir captiue and exiled hir and done all that they coulde to haue killed hir But she is escaped your hands and requicouereth that libertie that the Apostles procured in all nations for hir And she doth so much the better bicause she rereth not worldly subiection of Princes but letteth Princes kéepe the estate of their kingdomes and requireth not onely obedience to hir in a more spirituall submission Whiche the more Princes yelde vnto hir they bring not their kindomes into more slauerie but into more libertie renowne and honour So that I truste shortely they will bring the Pope and his proude Prelates to their olde obedience againe Whie saye you this is to arme Princes agaynste the Church Nay Master Saunders it is rather to strengthen the Church to let Princes haue that armor that is due vnto them What say you to lette them doe vvhat they vvill and for nothing they shall doe to saye they vvill not leaue their Empire No bodie Master Saunders giueth Princes authoritie to do what they will. The authoritie that is giuen them is onely to doe good Their vvill must not be what they will but what Lawe vvill It is not with them as it is wyth your Pope Sic volo sic Iubeo stet pro ratione voluntas Thus I vvill and thus I commaunde my vvyll shall stande in steade of reason The Law is not wyth them in scrinio pectoris in the cofer of the brest as your Pope sayth it is in his I graunt there are Princes that doe thus but that is not their dutie Neither do Princes make a profession as you say that for nothing they will giue ouer their authoritie nor it is required of them nor presupposed But their duetie in their officâ—… is required and it is presupposed they will continue therein Which if they do not but breake promise shall the subiectes depose them or the Byshops depriue them by whiche rule they may quickly set vpon the Prince for any enormitie in ciuil matters too for he promised to minister iustice to al meÌ„ but he promised to none to giue vp his crowne if he did not Yea though he had made them some suche expresse promise also and brake it yet coulde no Byshop nor any other priuate person attempte to depose him for the breach thereof but commit the vengeance to god But this Prince that here is presupposed offereth inough vnto the Bishop which if he refuse not the Prince but the Byshop endamageth the Church of Christ. Nowe Master Saunders presupposing in this supposall that he hath clearely euicted the case where the Byshop by expresse wordes maketh this condition with the king he will pursue his victorie that he thinketh he hath gotten and proue that the king hath promised and is bounde euen as muche where the Byshoppe at his baptisme saithe no suche wordes vnto him But if so be saith he all men vvill confesse that no Byshop can giue baptisme vvithout great sinne to that king vvhom he seeth so proude then truely although the Byshop by negligence or forgetfulnesse shall say nothing hereof vnto the king notvvithstanding suche is the obedience that the king himselfe giueth vnto the Gospell of Christe vvhen he maketh himselfe a member of him and desireth of him to be saued that vvill hee nill hee this promise is contained in that facte that he shall minister vnto Christ and to the
Pastors are placed in the Churche to this purpose that they shoulde vvatche for our soules teach baptise dispence the mysteries of Christe giue open sinners vnto Sathan and in the person of Christe to forgiue them that are sorie for their sinnes according to the Lorde To conclude that they by their keys should bring so vvel earthly kings as other meÌ„ into the kingdome of heauen Sithe therefore as Christe the Lorde of all worthily gouerneth so wel the spiritual as the earthly power and sith the spirituall power floweth not from Christe but as he is redeemer of mankinde and that power is properly ordeined and prouided for the getting of eternall life neither by any meanes can it be saide or thought of a vviseman that Christe vvoulde haue the earthly povver aboue the spirituall in his Church vvhich is all led by the spirite and ought to be lifted aboue all earthly things Truely it is necessarie that in the Churche of Christe vvhiche is one the onely spirituall povver shoulde rule and that the povver of the father the husbande the Lorde yea and of the King himselfe shoulde be altogither vnder the povver of the Pastors appointed of Christ vvhen the matters of the life to come are handled Except Master Saunders of vaine glorie did either delight to much to heare himself or of subtletie went about to tyre and wrappe his Readers he woulde neuer vse so many wordes to so litle purpose Muche of this is nothing but that he hath spoken before and is here in vaine repeated much of it is cleane besides the matter The summe is this that all estates as touching spirituall matters are altogyther vnder the spirituall Pastors The effecte of all this long drift standeth on these two reasons the one of the difference of the two powers to proue the spiritual to be the better the other of the vnion of bothe powers to proue the Priestes alone to rule them both What he hath tolde vs heretofore of the difference concerning the original the vse and the end of bothe we haue hearde alreadie and it is néedelesse to repeat And likewise that all ciuill and kingly povver is as well out of the Church of God as in the Church of God the spirituall power only in the Church is alredy answered vnto And in al these actioÌ„s that he reckoneth vp the King is likewise graunted the inferior Howbeit here is nothing that the King is inferior in things belonging to his kingdome But what is al this to the present purpose that the Priest may depole the King he reasoneth of the â—…mon of these powers that they are all one in Christ that Christ hath both in him and ruleth both so well the secular as the spirituall â–ª and this is likewise answered last vnto Put that here vpon the power of all estates is altogether vnder the pastors power that is not hetherto proued And yet we denie not but that the power of all these estates Father Husband Lorde and King is vnder the pastors power but not altogether vnder it And so we say that all these powers yea the pastors and all are vnder the Kings power but not altogether vnder it All estates are vnder the pastors power bycause hée teacheth all estates of men how to liue in their vocations All estates are vnder the Kings power bycause he ouerséeth in al estates the maintenance of the same So that as Master Saunders rightly saith there is no difference and there is a difference and there is a mixture of these powers There is no difference in respect that all are partakers of the vnitie in Christ in regarde wherof neither Priest nor Prince are better the one than the other or the people worse than both sith all are one in christ There is a difference in respecte of the order and gouernment of the Church which is so distinguished in difference of degrées and callings that as the wife maye not take vpon hir the husbandes office nor the sonne the fathers nor the seruant the maisters so neither the past or maye take vpon him the office of the King nor the King the office of the pastour And there is a mixture in respect that the pastor directeth by teaching of all estates and spareth not the Prince and that the Prince directeth by gouerning of all estates and spareth not the pastor But this mixte power of entermedling confoundeth not the one power with the other neither maye the Prince vsurpe the authoritie due to the pastor nor the pastor vsurpe the authoritie due to the Prince As the one therefore is not confounded and yet medled with the other so the one hath both inferiorship and superioritie ouer the other and yet is neither altogether inferior or altogether superior to the other as here M. Saunders on the vnion and mixture difference no difference of these two powers concludes to exalt the pastor to such an absolute superioritie ouer the Princes that at their liking misliking they mighto depose theÌ„ But now M. sand to confirme this that the pastor is altogether in spirituall matters aboue the Prince procéedeth saying For as the fleshely man perceiueth not the things that are of the spirit of God so neither the fleshly power gouerneth those things that are of the spirite of god For althoughe Kings gouerne the members of Christe yet notwithstanding they gouerne them not in respect that they are the ineÌ„bers of Christ but in that they are yet occupied in secular businesse For the members of Christ may want a King as in times past almost for three thousand yeares eueÌ„ froÌ„ the beginning of the world vntill the kingdome of Saul they wanted an earthly king But yet the members of Christ neuer wanted some pastor bicause faith is by hearing hearing by the word of god But those that preached the word of Christ they were the pastors of the flocke The argument is this That which hath no perceuerance of things that are of the spirit of God ought to haue no superioritie in things that are of the spirit of God. But the Princes power hath no perceuerance of things that are of the spirit of God How proue you this M. Saunders The fleshly power hath no perceuerance But the Princes power is but a fleshly power Proue this better M. Saunders Such as the man is such is the power But the Prince is but a fleshly man Proue this tâ—… M. Saunders He which hath only respect to secular busines is but a fleshly man But kings haue onely respect to secular businesse Proue me this also M. Saunders Although Kings gouerne the members of Christ yet they gouerne them not in respect that they are members of Christ Ergo they gouerne them onely in secular businesse Proue this too M. Saunders If Kings gouerne theÌ„ as meÌ„bers of Christ then would they neuer haue wanted the gouernement of kings but almost for 3000. yeares they waÌ„ted
vnderstande this present exhortation to haue the libertie or power to forsake the heathen Magistrates obedience and iudgements and to erecte a nevv Magistrate and Iudge to rule among them For this had bene the readie pathe to all Rebellion And to proue that this is the readiest way to Rebellion sée howe Master Saūders gathereth hereon that nevve Kings are to be made of the Churche rather than vve shoulde be compelled to pleade our causes before hereticall and scismaticall Kings So that if the Prieste shall say the King is an heretike or a scismatike not only the people must so account him but they muste account him no longer to be their King they muste not be compelled to appeare in his Courtes and Consistories they must pleade no cause at all before him or his Iustices but must forthwith choose a nevv King to be their gouernour Howe far this is differing from Saint Paules doctrine from this sentence from subiectes obedience and howe neare to set all the world in an vprore I dout not but if this Nota that M. sand sets it out withal be wel noted it wil not only bréede in the Readers mindes a note of suspicion of priuie conspiracies trayterous packing but openly shew a manifest proclamatiō of plain rebelliō Now to proue that the subiects should thus rebel he sheweth the dangers that should ensue if they should remaine in their obedience For certaine it is that there is more danger of heretical Kings thā is of vnfaithful Iudges For vnfaithful Iudges do not iudge but of matters of this world and that according to the law either of nature which is alwayes right or ciuil vvhiche is seldome vvrong Moreouer vvhat if I suffered vvrong at the tribunall of a Pagane Iudge the losse is small to suffer the spoyle of tēporal goods vvhich good men beare vvith ioye But heretical Kings compel their subiects casting away the catholike faith to embrace their heresie the whiche can not be done vvithout the detriment of eternall saluation It is altogither lavvfull to the Churche of Christe to remoue from his gouernement an heretical a scismatical a symoniacal King and to conclude to remoue him that vvill not amende himselfe and to place another among the Christians in his rome This argument is drawne from the danger of suffering the king is alreadie answered diuers times The lawiers woulde briefly say to this better suffer a mischiefe than an inconuenience but were this an inconuenience too we may not take away one inconuenience with an other greater inconuenience for ther are conuenient remedies of pacience constancie against these inconueniences and not rebellion althoughe the inconuenience were muche greater than M. Sād makes it And yet to aggrauate the same he makes cōparison of a King and a Iudge as though the Iudge represented not the king He compareth the daunger of the losse by the one and by the other as thoughe the heathen Iudges and Princes dealt not also in cases of Religion Who although they were deceiued herein yet they conuented people before them for Religion to driue them from the worship of God to the worship of their Idols and laboured by all persuasions and meanes they coulde to bring them to their Religiō And verie many they brought to their Idolatrie which was more thā the losse of temporal goods euē the detriment of eternal saluatiō Neither did they vse their iudgemēts always according to the lavv of nature or the ciuil neyther doth the one iudge alvvayes right considering the great corruption of nature chiefly in the heathen neyther did the other sildome wrong but often wrong among them neither medled the ciuill Lawe of the Pagans onely with matters of temporall goodes and of this vvorlde but also with matters of the worlde to come and therefore there was further daunger of the iudgementes of those heathen Princes and vnfaythefull Iudges than here Maister Saunders woulde séeme to acknowledge there was mitigating all that he can the daunger ensuing from them to aggrauate the greater daūgers from naughtie Christian Princes But he nede not run to these vntruthes to aggrauate his comparison For we denie not but that if the Prince were such a wicked Prince as he speaketh of it were in dede very daungerous to the faithfull subiects vnder him and so muche the more daungerous that he pretendeth to the faithfull to be a faithfull Prince and is not But what a daungerous doctrine is this that the people should therfore rebell and reuolt vnto another Might the Christiā people in the primitue Church for all the daūger of eternall life that they and all the faithfull were in when the heathen Princes would haue them worship Idols which is as ill as heresie when the heretical scismaticall Emperors being Arians Monothelites c. in the ancient time compelled their subiectes casting away the Catholike faith to embrace their heresies might they remoue thē from their gouernment and place another in his roome ouer the Christians and that that shoulde streight be heresie which the B ▪ of Rome should say were heresie he should be a scismatike that should not consent to him Yea he must be deposed for symonie too ▪ by symonie forsooth we must vnderstand that if the Prince do appoint and inuest a Bishop then streight he is a simoniake and must out of hande be depesed What a greater daūger is here not onely to Christiā Princes but to all the Church of Christ whose sauegarde is here pretended But if we reason of daūgers the greatest daūger of all is of the Pope himselfe his prelates the more daunger that Princes people be thus beguiled by them and yet the king may not meddle with them although his duetie neuer so much require he hath good warrant in the scripture 〈◊〉 remoue them so haue not they of him were they neuer 〈◊〉 good and were he a great deale worse than M. Saunders makes him But Maister Saunders will nowe proue that the Bishops haue warrant out of the scripture for them and once againe he alleageth the example of King Saul and Samuel For if the kingdome of Saul stoode not euen for this that he obserued not the precept of Samuel in wayting for him seuen dayes before he sacrificed Yea if the Lord cast off Saul that he shuld not be the king bicause he fulfilled not also another precept of the Lorde declared by the Ministerie of Samuel in killing Agag if for this disobedience of Saul while he yet raigned Samuel was bidden to anoynt Dauid to be the King of the Iewes and Samuel did it priuily in Bethleem Neither after the holy Ghost sent downe from heauen the spirituall power of the Church can now be lesse than in times past was in the Synagog we must now also confesse that that King which shall dispise to heare the Lord speaking by the mouth of the highest Bishop maye