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A30542 Some of the principles of the Quakers (scornfully so called by men) vindicated and proved sound and true and according to the Scriptures in oposition to the false charges and lying reports given forth against the truth in two printed books put forth by one Philip Taverner, a supposed minister of the Gospel in Middlesex near Vxbridge ... / by Edw. Burrough. Burrough, Edward, 1634-1662. 1658 (1658) Wing B6024; ESTC R28519 19,009 24

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not perceive the things of God nor know them yet this is not contrary to what I say that Christ Jesus lighteth every man that comes in the world which light Christ is sufficient and he changeth men from Natural to spiritual as they are brought to beleeve in Christ that hath lightned them and he opposes me as if I should say or hold forth that the Natural man perceives and knows the things of God and that the natural man hath faith which I never spoke nor entered into my mind to say so he hath drawn his evill consequence from my words and then confounded his own Conception but my words remains untouched for my saying and intent is that Christ lighteth every man that comes into the world and his light is sufficient to give faith and to change a man from natural to spiritural and to give him the perceiving and knowledge of the things of God and of his spirit and my words nor intent is no contradiction to the Apostles words though P. T. falsly judged so for want of better understanding I suppose rather than through subtilty at this turn and thus my principle is proved sound and the title of his book a lie And whereas I said that Christ wrought righteousness perfectly without us and also fulfils righteousness in all that believes and no man is justified by one of these without the other or that hath not the other pag. 12. of my first He saith whether I do not confound justification and sanctification he leaves all rational men to judge c. Reply That Christ wrought righteousness without us is not denied by him nor that he fulfils the righteousness of the Law in the Saints he cannot well deny let him read Rom 8.4 and that no man is justified by the righteousness that Christ wrought without who beleeves not nor is converted to God but in the power of Satan this all the Children of God beleeves and knowes that none are justified by Christs righteousness without but who are converted to God and hath received Christ and he is in them for else they are reprobates and not justified and so I am not ashamed of my principle though he would slander it to be too light for he that hath not Christ Gods righteousness within him is a reprobate and not justified by any righteousness without neither do I confound justification and sanctification which he falsly charges me with for they are one in Christ for he is made unto us sanctification and justification and the man that is in the pollutions of the world unsanctified is not justified but condemned so none are justisted by a righteousness without them but them that are sanctified by him within this I own and do not deny and men that are in the save corrupt reason with him must not I be judged by and also I do justifie if any work be wrought by us in the strength and power of grace and not in our own strength then it is the work of Christ in us the work of Gods own righteousness and that no work or word is justified but what the spirit of Christ leads unto and though P. T. ignorantly commenteth upon these words yet are they words of truth and righteousness and all that he saies against them proves not the contrary And whereas I did ask him which he had ignorantly affirmed in his Relation VVhether that righteousness which Christ works in us in his strength and power and not in our own is called our righteousness which he seems to answer but he hath mis-understood my words for I meant not Ours by enjoyment but Ours in the sence the Prophet speaks when he said our Righteousness is as filthy Raggs I know the Righteousness that Christ works in us by his Spirit and the power of his Grace is Ours by enjoyment in the second Adam as the gift of God to us but not Ours in the first Adam in the righteousness of the Law in the state not converted and that was the strength of my Query where that Righteousness wrought in us by the Spirit and strength of Christ and not in our own is called our Righteousness ours as in the first Adam but I see thou hast not understood the meaning of my Query for weakness of understanding and then how should thou rightly answer it Also I Queried How Christ working Righteousness in us by the power of grace not by our own strength can be called the righteousness of the Law which he had affirmed now I meant the righteousness of the Law in the flesh and not in the Spirit I know the working of Christ both in us to will and to do by his Spirit and strength and power of Grace is the fulfilling the righteousness of the Law by Christ in us but it is not the righteousness of the Law in the flesh wrought by us as unborn again but to this thou hast not answered but hast answered thy own conceiving and not the innocency of my Queries And whereas he stumbles and is offended because I said No man is justified in any word or work but what they are lead unto by the Spirit and those words and works the Spirit leads unto are justified and no other words or works and from this he would falsely conjecture I hold a justification by works and by something without or besides that which Christ wrought without I say no by the deeds of the Law shall no flesh living be justified but yet he that moveth and leadeth into words and works of Truth and Righteousness the same doth justifie the Creature in the words and works which he is lead unto and this is not in opposition to the Apostles words which he seems to bring against me Rom. 5.8 9. Whiles we were sinners Christ dyed for us much more being justified by his blood we shall be saved from the wrath this is not contrary to what I say for we do own the blood of Jesus to justifie but yet not such who are not cleansed by it and lead by the Spirit into all truth but it is they that are justified only who are lead into all Truth by the Spirit such are justified by his blood in the Spirit and saved from wrath who are born of the immortal Word but they that remain in sin are not justified nor saved from wrath Then he Queries VVhether I shut pardon of sin out of doors I answer no for they that are lead into all Truth by the Spirit their sins are pardoned and forgiven and remembred no more but blotted out and cannot be read for they are cleansed from it and commits not sin then he asks VVhether I grant two formal causes of Iustification the one forgiveness of sin the other inherent righteousness I say both the cause and the work of Righteousness is in God his free love and mercy which is over all his works and they receive the work of it and the gift of it that are lead by the Spirit as the effect
all opposers that the Saints may waite for and witness upon earth to have power over sin and over its temptations and free from the commiting of sin by the power of the second Adam living and dwelling in them and thus must thou believe P. T. or else thou believes not Scripture nor that any are born of God or abides in Christ if thou believe not that then confess thou errs in Judgement who art unbelieving of what the Scripture bears witness of Therefore tell me plainly if thou believe that there are any that are born of God and abides in Christ then must thou believe such doth not commit sin else thou denies the Scripture and what I held forth herein I do not contradict the Apostles nor Solomons words for its true the Apostle said if we say we have no sin we deceive our selves but art thou so blind that thou doest not see he speaks there of a state before confession of sins and the next words saith the Apostle if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness so I do agree with the Apostles words and do not contradict them for I do say if any say they have no sin before they do confess their sin and forsake their sin and be cleansed from it I say they are lyars and the truth not in them and I also say if that after a man have confest his sin and be cleansed from it and have his sin forgiven him and witnesseth that he is born of God and does not commit sin I say he speaks the truth also and the truth is in him and though Solomon did say there is not a just man upon earth that doeth good and sins not yet is my affirmation true notwithstanding for Solomon forgat the Lord and his heart went after many strange women and became a transgressor and in that state did not know the birth born of God which doth not commit sin for he was but under the Administration of the law which doth not make perfect as pertaining to the conscience and paradventure in that state he being erred from God he did not see any that did not sin these things will be plain to some though perhaps thou may shut thine eye against them and Solomon was not our example in conversation I am sure nor hardly in doctine and thus I have weighed thy text which thou seems to say before I have not weighed and my principles are proved sound and thou and thine too light and the wind of the Lord will scatter them And P. T. confesses every reall hearted Christian may be and is in Scripture called perfect Reply Then wherefore doth he oppose me who testifies the same thing and he now confesses even that every reall hearted Christian may be and is called perfect in Scripture and is not he here guilty in that he Charged me falsly pag. the 21. of his last with going rounds like unto a horse in a mill who sometimes denies perfection and sometimes confesseth it to be attained in this life but he is forced in the end to confess to the truth and to justifie me And also the Scripture doth testifie the Saints were already perfect and compleat in Christ while they were in the life upon earth Col. 1. though there be a time wherein all the Saints do complain of the body of sin in their warfare and travell yet there is a state also wherein they have put off the body of sin and are the servants of righteousness and free from sin Rom 6.22 But P. T. shewes little experience in those states as of the travel under the body of death and also the victory over it and so what he speakes is but by guess from other mens words and then it is no marvell if he err in judgment ●nd bring one Scripture to contradict another not having the infallable spirit that gave it forth nor feeling the states nor the passing thorrow these conditions declared therein for there is a time of travelling and complaining under the body of sin and its burden and a time of freedome from it and victory over it yea even in this life upon earth And wheras I said in my last many of the Saints daily receive more and more of Gods wisdome and of his power and life revealed in them wherein they grow up to Gods from strength to strength Now saith he but whether he doth not own some to have attained so high that there can be no addition is a query my soul saith he has not been able to enter into his secrets in this thing because my words were many of the saints c. Reply My first words it seemes he cannot contradict but owns them to be true so I need not defend them only he supposeth a question in which there is not much edification to be answered and I have no secrets in what I spake for to the Children of light my words are plain though to P. T. and such they may be parrables and secrets but as for my own particular I now here answer the question and further reply I do grow up in wisdome and knowledge daily and never knew so much of P. T. deceit as now I do since and at that dispute the ground of this our debate so I thought good to let him know that I do grow in truth which doth daily discover more and more deceite in him and them that opposes truth and so also growes in the knowledge of his error of Judgement and Ignorance that I may condemne it and judge it And whereas I said the light which every man is lightned withal by Christ is sufficient to bring up every man to believe in Christ that loves the light and walks in it and unto such is grace added and increased daily c. as in the 16 pag. of my first more appears In opposition to this to over throw it as he supposes he hath nominated that Scripture 1 Cor. 2.14 the Natural man perceives not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him neither can he know them because they are spiritually discrened c. Reply Now my words are true and no contradiction to the Apostles words except to such as are blind that cannot discern between light and darkness and such will judge falsly and out of an evill mind make an appearance of seeming difference where there is none for the light that lighteth every man that comes into the world is Christ John 1.9 and that Christ the light that lighteth every man that comes into the word is sufficient to bring every man that loves the light and walks in it to believe in Christ these are my words and the intent of my mind and would any man that were not stark blind make any opposition against this doctrine or bring a Scripture to prove the contrary which Scripture I own and doth no way contradict for the natural man doth