in your margent Genes 48. 16. and Apoca. 1. 4. which make asmuch for prouing inuocation of Saints as Tityre tu patule doth The words of the place of Genesis be these The Angell which hath deliuered me from all euill blesse the children and let my name be called or named vpon them and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac that they may grow as fish into a multitude in the midst of the earth Out of this place the Papists take two arguments to proue prayer to Angels and to Saints The first out of these words The Angell which hath deliuered me c. the other out of those let my name be called vpon them c. But yet let the reader note this that of the Papists some doe finde the one saying and some the other so weake that some alledge the one and some the other and I haue not read any one that doth vse them both T. W. in a discourse of this matter alledged the former words of the Angell and Ecchius the latter To the which I wil briefly answere By the Angel is ment Iesus Christ the Angell of the couenant as Malachie calleth him and the Angell of the great counsell of God So doth Aloisius Lipomanus that great Catholike Bishop of Verona both out of Cyrillus and of himselfe expound it in these words Cyrillus Iacob pueris benedicens deum patrem nutrientemse Angelum liberantem nominat illum nempe Angelum qui Angelus magni consilij ab Esaia dicitur quia omnis benedictio omnis gratia non aliter quà m à deo per Iesum Christum in homines descendit Considerandum quòd dictio hagoel vel redimens vel qui redimit propriè reddi potest quo loquendi modo clarissimè filius dei mundi generalis redemptor denotatur Et si diligenter aduerteris tacitè propheta domini sanctissimam inuocat trinitatem patrem scilicet spiritum S. sub nomine dei bis repetiti vnigenitum verò dei filium sub nomine Angell Angelum verò intelligit redemptorem verbum diuinum saluatorem nostrum vel auxilij dispensationis diuinae ministrum ipse inquam ille benedicat pueris istis That is Cyrill Iacob blessing thy children doth name God both the father which did nourish him and the Angell which did deliuer him to wit that Angell whom Esay calleth the Angell of great counsell because all blessing and all grace descendeth no other wayes from God vpon men but by Iesus Christ We must consider that the word Hagoel may be translated either redeeming or he that redeemeth by which phrase of speech the sonne of God the generall redeemer of the world is most manifestly signified and if thou diligently marke thou maist perceiue that the prophet in secret sort calleth vpon the most holy Trinitie to wit the father and the holy Ghost vnder the name of God twise repeated and the onely begotten sonne of God vnder the name of the Angell For by the Angell he vnderstandeth the redeemer the word of God our Sauiour or the minister of Gods helpe and dispensation euen he I say blesse these children Hitherto Lipomanus who with that ancient Father Cyrill truely vnderstand by this Angell Iesus Christ and not any other ministring spirit or created Angel And therefore this place proueth the inuocation of Christ but not of other Angels By the other words Let my name be called vpon them c. Iacob meant nothing else but that Manasses and Ephraim Iosephs sonnes should be counted amongst his sonnes to make vp the twelue tribes of Israel And euen so Frier Lyra doth truely expound it in these words Inuocetur super cos nomen meum quia vocati sunt filij adoptiui Iacob facti sunt capita duarum tribuum sicut alij filij Iacob that is Let my name be called vpon them because they were called the adopt sonnes of Iacob and were made the heads of two tribes as were his other sonnes This phrase of speech is so vsed in other places of Scripture as Isa 4. 1. In that day seuen women shall lay hold of one man saying we will eate our owne bread and we will weare our owne garments onely let thy name be called vpon vs and take away our reproch Whereby is meant that he should be their husband and they counted and called his wiues The like phrase is 2. Sam. 12. 28. Hierem. 7. 10. c. And therefore that this exposition of this place whereby they go about to proue inuocation of Saints is a priuate and false exposition any man may easily perceiue And this is the more euident for that some great papists are forced to confesse that inuocation of Saints is not commended nor commaunded in al the Scriptures There is one Francis Hamilton a Scot a papist and fugitiue prior of S. Iames at Herbipolis in Germanie who in a discourse concerning inuocation of Saints writeth thus Porro lihic concedimus disertis scripturarum verbis ipsam inuocationem sanctorum non commendari Quibus enim cuius authoris cuius libri cuius instrumenti Noui an veteris commendantur Sancti commendatur oratio quam pro nobis ad deum faciunt vt ipsos inuocemus atque vt pro nobis orent rogemus nullo loco commendatur Vbi consulatur locus demonstrari non potest Sed neque conueniebat vt aut commendaretur aut consuleretur nascentis maxime ecclesiae exordijs ne plures sibi deos more gentium fingere aut constituere existimarentur christiani quando etiam in suspicionē Idololatriae venerunt dū sub specie panis vini verum deum colerent 83. praecepta ne est Non est praecepta c. that is Moreouer we doe heere willingly graunt that inuocation of Saints is not commended to vs by expresse words of the Scriptures For by what words of what authors of what booke of which testament the new or the old Saints are commended prayer which they make to God for vs is commended but that we should call vpon them and that we should intreate them to pray for vs is in no place commended No place cā be shewed where it is counselled Neither was it couenient that it should be either commended or counselled especially in the beginning of the Church arising lest christians should be thought to make vnto themselues after the maner of the gentiles moe Gods seeing they were suspected of Idolatrie for worshipping the true God vnder the forme of breade and wine 83. Is it commaunded It is not commaunded Hitherto the words of this Papist Hamilton by which it appeareth that inuocation of Saints is not commaunded nor counselled in the Scriptures and therefore they doe wrest them and bring a priuate and false exposition to them which seeke to proue it by them You quote also in the margent Apoc. 1. 4. where at a man might well wonder that you would quote a place so impertinent for this purpose but that it is euer
Christ and applied vnto our soules by the hand of faith by the which Christ doth dwell in our harts and is made ours We beleeue that we are true members of that holy Catholike Church which is Christes mysticall body and whereof he is the head which is his spouse and he the bridegroome which is his flock and he the shepheard which is the heauenly Hierusalem the Mother of vs all finally which is the number of Gods elect and chosen people that shall rest with Abraham Isaac and Iacob in the Kingdome of Heauen And we know that we haue perticular and visible Churches wherein Gods word is more truly preached the Sacraments seales of the word are more purely ministred and Gods name more faithfully inuocated and called vpon then in any or all the Romish Synagogues Indeede we haue no Idolatrous altars to offer either carnall or externall sacrifices vpon as though Christs sweete smelling sacrifice were not yet offered but we haue Mensam Domini the Lords Table whereupon we minister the Supper of Christ which is a holy Sacrament of Christs body and bloud giuen for vs a memoriall of his death and passion and a pledge of our redemption and saluation purchased thereby We haue that sweete smelling and sufficient sacrifice which Iesus Christ by his eternall spirit offered without fault vnto God to purge our consciences from dead workes to serue the liuing God As for the sacrifice of the masse as being iniurious to the said sacrifice of Iesus Christ which he once for all and for euer offered vpon the Altar of the Crosse we deny and defie We haue no thauen nor greased priests to offer the said false and forged sacrifice of the Masse but we haue priests pastours or ministers howsoeuer we terme them according to the ordinance of Christ to preach his holy Gospell and to administer his sacraments to his Church We haue and vse that religion which hath the testimonie of the law prophets and wherein the true worship and seruice of God according to his will reuealed in his holy word is contained your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and superstition we flee and forsake Finally we haue that Christ which came into this world to saue sinners and which is that Lambe of God that taketh away the sinne of the world whom we acknowledge more soundly to be our onely high prophet to instruct vs in the will of his father whose onely voyce we must heare our onely high priest with the sacrifice of his body and bloud once offered to redeeme vs and reconcile vs vnto God our onely mediator and intercessorto sit for euer at the right hand of God to make intercession for vs and our onely high king to deliuer vs out of the hands of our enemies to giue lawes vnto our consciences and to rule vs with the scepter of his holy word then the Pope and all his adherents doe This our true confession whereunto God and our consciences be witnesses we oppose to your false and slaunderous obtrectation and accusation saying with Saint Paul We passe very little to be iudged of you or of mans iudgement and with him also exhort you not to iudge before the time vntill the Lord come who will lighten things that are hid in darkenes and make the counsels of the harts manifest and then shall euery man haue praise of God Further I doe exhort you that take vpon you so seuerely to censure and iudge others carefully to take heede to your selues that you haue not a false faith grounded not vpon Gods promises contained in his word but vpon mans deuises and traditions which as Epiphanius saith as worse then no faith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and that you be not voyde of true hope by teaching the doctrine of doubting whereof I shall speake hereafter and by fearing to be after death throwne into the firie torments of purgatorie and that you want not true charitie in iudging so falsely and maliciously and persecuting vs so cruelly as you vse to doe when time and power serueth you and that you haue no true repentance nor remorse of conscience for sinne in persisting so obstinately in damnable doctrine and abominable idolatrie and that by leaning to your owne righteousnes and the merites of other men which were sinners themselues you lose not that true iustification which is the righteousnes of God by the faith of Iesus Christ vnto all and vpon all that beleeue which is onely able to stand and discharge vs before the iudgement seate of Iesus Christ and is the onely strong staffe to leane vpon to leap ouer the ditch of damnation and beware I say that you leaning vpon the weake reede of your owne merites and others fall not into the middest thereof from which there is norising take heede you be not of the malignant Church which heareth not the voyce of Christ and wherein that man of sinne and sonne of perdition sitteth and raigneth and that you haue not such Idolatrous altars as Ieneboam had against which the man of God cried and vpon which the like iudgement of God fell as hath done vpon yours now And that you haue not a false forged sacrifice which appeaseth not but daily prouoketh Gods wrath against you and that you be not without priests to teach the law of God truely but haue swarmes of such priests as say not where is the Lord and know not God but prophesie in Baal which haue gone out of the way and haue caused many to fall by the law c. Beware that you be not without religion remembring the saying of Lactantius Quare non est dubium quin veligio nulla sit vbicunque simulachrum est that is wherefore there is no doubt but that there is no religion wheresoeuer an Image is Finally I say againe and againe beware that you forsake not the true Christ and worship Antichrist sitting in the westerne Babylon built vpon seuen hilles which in the dayes of Saint Iohn raigned ouer the Kings of the earth wherefore be not so rash in iudging so hardly and vncharitably of others but examine and iudge your selues that you be not iudged of the Lord. But I now come to your pithie probation of this your vncharitable and shameles assertion The reason you say is For if they haue then the world was without them for a thousand yeares as they themselues must needes confesse videl all the time their Church was eclipsed and for 1500. as we will proue by the testimonie of all records of antiquitie c. Whereunto I answere that if we take the world in that sense which the scripture sometimes doth for the multitude and societie of them whereof the Diuell is prince which hateth Christ and his true disciples which is set vpon wickednes for the which our Sauiour Christ refused to pray saying I pray not for the world and where
to doe as the noble man the Queene Candaces Treasurer did to seek to a faithful Philip that is a godly and learned man by him to seeke to haue them opened and expounded so did Fabiola other godly women to Saint Hierome So Augustine saith Scripturarum expositio ab ijs petenda est qui earum doctores se esse profitentur that is The exposition of the Scriptures is to be sought of them which professe themselues to be doctors and teachers of them Yet with Saint Paul we say that as we are not to despise prophesying that is the expounding of Gods word so we are not rashly to receiue whatsoeuer is deliuered to vs but we are to proue all and to hold that which is good and to abstaine from all apparance of euill for the eare trieth the words as the mouth tasteth meate So also Saint Basil saith Quod in edulijs est sensus qualitatis vniuscuiusque edulij hoc in verbis sanctae scripturae est intellectus Gula enim inquit cibos gustat mens verba dijudicat that is That which in meates is the tast of the qualitie of euery meate the same is the vnderstanding or minde in the words of the holy Scripture For the throate saith he tasteth the meates and the minde iudgeth the words Now I will retort your argument vpon you in this manner Whosoeuer buildeth his faith vpon priuate and false expositions of the Scripture is an infidel The Papists build their faith vpon priuate and false expositions of the Scripture as I haue shewed before and can proue in many places moe ergo the Papists be infidels And thus much to your second article of faith The Pamphlet All Protestants who are ignorant of the Greeke and Latine tongues are Infidels 3. Article WHosoeuer relieth his faith vpon the ministers credit and fidelitie hath no faith at all But all those in England who are ignorant of the Greeke and Hebrew tongues rely their faith vpon the ministers credit Ergo. All those in England who are ignorant of the Greeke and Hebrew tongues haue no faith at all The Maior is manifest because they themselues confesse that euery man may erre and doth erre neither haue they any warrant why the ministers doe not erre since they constantly doe defend that whole generall councels yea and the vniuersall Catholike Church may erre and hath erred The Minor I proue for all such Protestants ground their faith vpon the Bible translated into English the which translation they know not whether it be true or false whether the minister Tindall for example erred or no either vpon ignorance as Broughton one of the greatest linguists among the precisians affirmeth in an epistle dedicated to the Lords of the Counsell or vpon malice to induce the people to protestancie or to cause them to leaue the Catholike Religion as Gregorie Martin in his discouerie most pregnantly prooueth These errors I say they know not and consequently cannot discerne a true translation from a false and therefore must needes rely their faith vpon the sillie ministers faithles fidelitie which conuinceth that they haue no faith at all Answere I Deny the Minor or second proposition of this Syllogisme and say that we rely not our faith vpon the Ministers credit and fidelitie but vpon the word of God translated the which we know to be true and holy not so much for that it is by publike authoritie and generall assent of men allowed as for that it containeth most holy doctrine agreeable to true faith and godly life whereby any that readeth or heareth it may behold the Maiestie of Gods spirit appearing in it As for example I beleeue these sayings to be true that Iesus Christ came into this world to saue sinners that he is the Lambe of God which taketh away the sinnes of the world that the grace of God which offereth saluation to all men hath appeared and teacheth vs that we deny vngodlinesse and worldly lust and liue soberly righteously and godly in this present world c. not for that this or that man hath translated them but because the spirit of God doth beare witnes vnto my hart that most holy pure and diuine doctrine is contained in them And therefore to say that those which vnderstand not the Hebrew and Greeke tongues because they vse the word of God translated to them into other languages doe rely their faith vpon the Ministers credit and fidelitie and haue no faith is most foolish and absurd And let the Christian reader marke and consider how this sottish reason tendeth to the discrediting not only of vs but also of the most part of all godly and faithfull Christians in all ages yea and to the most of the godly Doctors and Fathers of the Church who were almost all ignorant of the Hebrew tongue and some of the Greeke also The holy Scriptures were translated into many tongues in the which the people of God did reade and heare them As Theodoritus writeth Hebraici verò libri non modò in Graecum idioma conuersi sunt sed in Romanam quoque linguam Aegyptiacam Persicam Indicam Armenicamque Scythicam adeoque Sauromaticam semelque vt dicam in linguas omnes quibus ad hanc diem nationes vtantur that is The Hebrew bookes be translated not onely into the Greeke tongue but also into the Romaine Aegyptian Persian Indian Armenian and Scythian and also the Sclauonian tongues to say at a word into all languages which the nations vse vnto this day Did the ancient faithfull Christians which read and heard the holy Scriptures in these sundrie languages rely their faith vpon men that did translate them or vpon the diuine doctrine and precious promises of God contained in them And let this cauiller shew sufficient reason why we are not either to be acquited with them or they condemned with vs. They could no more iudge of the truth of the translations then our people can yet they did to their great comfort and godly instruction and edification reade and heare the holy Scriptures grounding their faith not vpon the translators who might be and sometimes were euill men but vpon the sound holy and heauenly doctrine therein contained Saint Hierome exhorted ladies and gentlewomen not onely to reade the Scriptures themselues but also to bring vp their young daughters when they were but seuen yeares ould in that holy exercise They were not able to iudge of the translations otherwayes then to discerne and perceiue that the doctrine by them deliuered was pure and holy agreeable to true faith and godly life And euen so they that be godly in these dayes although they hauing not the knowledge of the Hebrew and Greeke tongues cannot iudge so exactly of translations and of the truth of them as those that vnderstand them can yet they may discerne whether the translations deliuer sound and holy doctrine consonant to true faith good manners and the generall heads and
declaramus dicimus dofinimus pronuntiamus omnino esse de necessitate salutis that is We declare say define and pronounce that it is altogether of necessitie of saluation to be subiect to the Pope of Rome Where the Glosse helpeth out the matter with these words Quie quid saluatur est sub summo pontifice Whatsoeuer is saued is vnder the Pope And on the other side All they that professe the religion of Rome and submit thomselues to the Bishop thereof be Catholikes and the Catholike Church how prophane wicked or vngodly soeuer they be Pope Iohn the 8. the whore Iohn the 12. or as some reckon him the 13. who was an adulterer and of two Cardinals did cut out the tongue of the one the hand of the other and at dice-play would call vpon the diuell and made the pallace of Laterane a stewes of strumpets as Luithprandus Ticinensis writeth Syluester the second a coniurer who gaue himselfe to the Diuell to be made Pope Gregorie the 7. a coniurer and monster Boniface the 7. who robbed Saint Peters Church and put out the eyes of Iohn a Cardinal Boniface the 8. who entred into his popedome like a foxe raigned like a wolfe and died like a dog Alexander the sixt Iulius the second and all they whom Platina calleth monstra portenta monsters and wonders for their wickednesse were not only Catholikes but also heads of this Catholike Church And he that married as I said before his owne sister and Ferdinando a king Naples who maried his Aunt king Philip of Spaine that maried his Neece because they did these things by y e dispēsations and allowing of holy Popes of Rome were Catholikes and good sonnes of the Catholike Church Now whether of these doctrines concerning this article of our faith I beleeue the holy Catholike Church be the sounder truer let the Christian reader vprightly iudge I doubt not but wisdome shall be iustified of her children And whereas you would make men beleeue that the Church whereof we are is contained within the narrow bounds of England and that the Lutherans in Germanie the Hugonotes in France and the Guines in Flanders as you terme them will not ioyne issue with vs in diuers essentiall points of religion you doe to the offending of God deceiuing of your ignorant reader vtter two notorious vntruths For we as I haue said before confesse our selues to be members of that holy Catholike Church which hath beene in all ages and is dispersed ouer the world and we haue communion and fellowship with all them in all nations that feare God and obey his truth especially in the fundamentall doctrines of religion and saluation But how do you truely confesse the Church to be Catholike that is vniuersall comprehending all nations in restraining it to the religion and subiection of the Pope of Rome and so consequently to a small part of Europe vnlesse you will now of late adde the West Indians where the Spaniards haue committed moe horrible murthers then they haue madagood proselytes And what an absurd speech is this that you call the Church of Rome the Catholike Church as if a man should call the Church of Corinth or Ephesus the Catholike Church which if they were holy are but members of the Catholike Church This is therefore that which you vntruly attribute to vs to call England the vniuersall world or Kent the kingdome of England c. But the Church of Rome now committing fornication with stocks and stones is so farre from being the Catholike Church that it is no true member thereof as M. Doctor Raynolds hath learnedly proued And that these whom you contemptuously call Lutherans Hugonotes and Guines do dissent from vs in essentiall points of religion you may easily affirme but shal neuer be able to proue Some indeed in Germanie whom you call Lutherans do dissent from vs in one point concerning the Sacrament of Christs bodie and bloud howbeit you cannot be ignorant but that manie Churches and countries in Germanie ioyne with vs in that matter And let the reader reade and examine the confessions of faith set out by the Churches in France and in the lowe countries they shall see both how great their agreement in doctrine is with vs and also what a shamelesse slaunder this is which this authour hath according to his accustomed maner auouched but not proued And moreouer I will offer this issue to this man who thinketh so highly of himselfe that whereas he shall proue that there is dissension among vs in one essentiall point of religion and doctrine I will proue that there is in three at the least among them And this much for this article The second article of the communion of Saints you say we many waies denie First by not beleeuing that Christ hath institnted seuen Sacraments wherein the Saints of his Church communicate But why do not you bring some plaine proofe y t our Sauiour Christ instituted these seuen Sacraments seeing you say that the denying of the is the deniall of this article of our faith Saint Paul going about to terrifie the Christians of Corinth from going to idolatrous feasts by the example of Gods fearefull iudgements and plagues poured vpon the Israelites for the like sinnes to preuent an obiection which the Christians of Corinth might haue made that the Israelits were not the Children of God so much as they and had not such Sacraments of Baptisme and of Christs supper as they had and therefore God would not deale so hardly with them as he did with the Israelites to take away I say this obiection he sheweth that they were Gods people as well as the Christians of Corinth were and had the same sacraments in substance that we haue For the fathers were vnder that cloud and al passed through the sea and were all baptized by Moses in that cloud and in that sea and did all eate the same spirituall meat and did all drink the same spirituall drinke for they dranke of the spiritual rocke that followed them the rocke was Christ Where Saint Paul making mention of the Sacraments which are tokens of Gods grace and markes of his people nameth but these two Baptisme and Christs supper Saint Augustine also writing of the Sacraments whereby Christ hath tied his people together maketh mention but of the same two in these words Primum itaque tenere volo quodest huius disputationis caput dominum nostrum Iesum Christum sicut ipse in Euangelio loquitur Leui iugo suo nos subdidisse sarcinae leui vnde sacramentis numero paucissimis obseruatione facillimis significatione praestantissimis societatem noui populi colligauit sicut est baptismus Trinitatis nomine consacratus communicatio corporis sanguinis ipsius si quid aliud is scripturis canonicis commendatur c 1. First therefore I would haue thee hold that which is the head of
malarum cogitationum ordinator est tamen malarum voluntatum de malo opere cuiuslibet mali non desinit ipse botum operari 1. Although God be not the author of euill cogitations yet is hee the orderer of euill wils and of the euill worke of euery euill man he ceaseth not to worke a good worke Therefore these wonderfull workes of God whose iudgements are vnsearchable and waies past finding out are not curiously to be discussed but reuerently to be adored For O man what art thou that pleadest against God In the probation of his minor he first vntruly according to his custome saith that wee deride Gods permission the which is false for we neither deride no deny Gods permission God said to Abimelech I kept thee also that thou shouldest not sinne against me Non permisi te vt tangeres eam therefore I haue not permitted thee to touch her Againe God permitted him not to hurt me But we say first that God permitteth not sinne inuitus against his will but of his will for els he were not omnipotent Secondly that he doth not onely permit sinnes but also by his infinite wisedome and almightie power draweth good out of them and directeth them to his glorie So S. Augustine saith Hoc quippe ipso quod contra Dei voluntatem fecerunt de ipsis facta est voluntas eius c. In that thing which they haue done against the will of God the will of God is done in them Therefore the workes of the Lord are great and are to be sought out of them that loue them So that by a wonderfull and vnspeakeable manner that is not done without his will which is done against his will because it could not be done vnlesse he did permit it nec vtique nolens sinit sed volens neither doth he permit it against his will but with his will Neither would he being good permit euill to be done vnlesse hee being omnipotent could also of euill doe good S. Hierome saith Dicā quicquam sine te fieri ô Domine Deus te nolente tantum posse impium Hoc sentire blasphemum est Quum itaque tu sis vniuersitatis rector Dominus tu necesse est facias quod sine te fieri non potest i. Shall I say that any thing is done without thee O Lord God and that the wicked can doe so much thou being vnwilling To thinke this is blasphemous Seeing therefore thou art the ruler and Lord of the world thou must needs doe that which cannot be done without thee Wee say indeede that Gods workes be energeticall and effectuall not onely in the faithfull but also in the wicked and reprobate whose hearts he hardeneth and eyes blindeth whom he giueth vp to a reprobate minde and to whom hee sendeth a strong delusion to beleeue lies These be Gods iust iudgements wherby he punisheth the wicked who yet are not impelled or coacted of God to these sinnes but willingly harden their owne hearts by the deceit of sinne shut their eyes that they may not see giue vp their members seruants to vncleannes and iniquitie and delight in delusions and in beleeuing lies as Papists now doe We doe not desperatly auerre but you doe falsely and impudently affirme that we teach that Pauls conuersion and Dauids adulterie were in like manner the workes of God This shamelesse saying you haue picked out of Campians reasons out of which you haue like a goodly Rapsodist gleaned a great part of this lying Libel but you cannot shew it in the writing of any Protestant This is calumniari non ratiocinare to slaunder and not rightly to reason But you know your friends and fauourers will beleeue you though it be neuer so false And you haue learned that lesson Audacter calumniare semper aliquid adhaeret We say that Pauls conuersion was a worke of Gods mercie agreeable to his will reuealed in his word Dauids sinne of adulterie was a work which he hateth and repugnant to his said will God wrought mightily in Paul by his holy spirit in conuerting his heart in drawing him out of darknes and in making him of a persecuter a preacher of his Gospell and a minister of his mercie God did not so work at that time in Dauid but left him to himselfe to be tempted drawne away and ouercome of his owne corrupt concupilcence yet wee say that God did draw good out of that sinne of Dauid in making him a patterne of true repentance and example of Gods mercie in forgiuing his sinnes and thereby teaching vs to walke warily and flee carnall securitie For if so excellent a man that was according to Gods heart did so fouly and fearefully fall what may fall vnto vs if we walke not circumspectly and pray not feruently to God to vphold vs with his hand and to guide vs with his holy spirit Touching Gods permission you write as though you neither did know what we teach nor regard what your selfe doe write Doe we teach that God elected some to glorie before the preuision of workes and reiected some from glorie before the preuision of sinnes You shall find this false assertion in our bookes when you finde the former shameles slaunder We do not teach that God elected any to glorie before he did foresee their workes For from euerlasting he to whom all things be present did foresee both the good workes of his elect and the wicked workes of the reprobate But this we say that the foundation and cause of Gods election and reprobation is not his prescience and foreseeing of the good workes of the one and the wicked workes of the other but his owne purpose will and pleasure and that good workes be not causes of Gods election but fruits and effects of it Saint Paul saith Before the Children were borne and when they had neither done good nor euill that the purpose of God might remaine according to election not by workes but by him that calleth It was said to her The elder shall serue the younger At it is written I haue loued Iacob and haue hated Esau Againe As he hath chosen vs in Christ before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and without blame before him in loue Who hath predestinate vs to be adopted through Iesus Christ in himselfe according to the good pleasure of his will in whom also we are chosen when we were predestinate according to the purpose of him which worketh all things after the counsell of his owne will Againe God hath saued vs and called vs with an holy calling not according to our workes but according to his owne purpose and grace which was giuen to vs through Christ Iesus before the world was Where we may see that the foundation and cause of Gods election is his owne will pleasure and purpose and not the foreseeing of our workes Saint Augustine saith Quod si futuros
eorum mores dicitur diuinum discreuisse iudicium profectò illud euacuabitur quod praemisit Apostolus dicens c. i. But if it be said that the iudgement of God did discerne the manners of Esau and Iac̄ob which afterward would be then surely that which the Apostle said before shall be made frustrate and in vaine Not of workes but by him that calleth it was said The elder shall serue the younger For he saith not by the workes past but hauing said generally Not by workes he would thereby haue vnderstoode workes both past and to come workes past which were none to come which as yet were not Iacob was predestinate a vessell vnto honour because not by workes but by him that calleth it was said The elder shall serue the younger Againe Nam quid est quod ait Apostolus sicut elegit nos in ipso c. i. For what is that which the Apostle saith As he hath chosen vs in him before the foundation of the world The which if it be therefore said because God did foresee that they would afterward beleeue and not that he would make them to beleeue against this foreseeing the sonne speaketh saying You haue not chosen me but I haue chosen you A little after he saith Elegit ergo Deus fideles sed vt sint non quia iam erant i. God hath chosen the faithfull that they might be not because they now were Againe Vt essemus sancti immaculati Non ergo quia futuri eramus sed vt essemus i. That we might be holy and without blame therefore not because we should be but that we might be Againe Quos elegit c. i. Whom hee hath chosen before the foundation of the world by the election of grace not of workes either past or present or to come for then grace were no grace Thus Saint Augustine sheweth that Gods election is not his prescience and foreseeing of workes to come but his owne grace good pleasure and purpose Now I come to your illations which vpon these false assertions you falsely inferre To the first I answere that God impelleth no man to sinne and therefore God is not the author of sinne Secondly God inforceth not men vpon necessitie to sinne but they sinne willingly and by the instigation of the diuell who worketh in the children of disobedience therefore God is not the author of sinne In your third inference where you say that sinne is free or no sinne belike you hold with Pighius and some other Papists that originall sinne is no sinne for it is not free for vs to be without it And whereas you aske how man can sinne in conforming his will with Gods will I answere that they that sinne doe not conforme their will to Gods will but doe disobey it and oppose themselues vnto it This is the will of God saith Saint Paul your sanctification and that ye should abstaine from fornication Finally for as much as you can neuer shew that it is the Protestants confession that God moueth perswadeth and induceth men to sinne therefore you make a false and blasphemous collection for the which the Lord rebuke thee Satan Lastly whereas you thus charge vs to hold that God is the author of sinne I would desire you to shew where we doe write more hardly of this matter then Iohn Fisher Bishop of Rochester hath written hereof whose words be these Neutrum sane potest sine Deo nec ad bonum se parare neque malum opus facere Neque enim adulter absque generali fluxu Dei potest adulterandi facinus committere sed neque postquam ipsum admisit sine speciali auxilio Dei conari valebit vt resurgat i. Man can doe neither without God neither prepare himselfe to good nor doe that which is euill For the adulterer can neither commit adulterie without the generall influence of God nor after he hath committed it can hee endeuour to rise without the speciall helpe of God And againe Nam quantum ad substant iam actus etiam operibus malis cooperatur Deus Neque tamen recte quisquam Deo peccatum imput abit quia tametsi cooperetur Deus ad substantiam actus non tamen ipsam deficientiam operatur sed hoc agit sola voluntas i. As touching the substance of the acte euen God doth cooperate or worke with euill workes yet may not any man rightly impute sinne vnto God for although God doth cooperate to the substance of the deede yet he doth not worke the defect of the deede but onely mans will doth that Either shew where we haue written more hardly hereof or else condemne this Bishop and Martyr for the Popes cause with vs. I trust you will not say that hee taught Atheisme which is so rife in Rome as I haue before shewed c. The Pamphlet That faith once had may be lost 6. Article WHosoeuer leeseth his charitie leeseth his faith But Dauid when he killed Vrias lost his charitie Ergo Dauid when he killed Vrias lost his faith The Maior is a principle vndoubted of in the schooles of Protestants for they peremptorily affirme that true faith such as was in Dauid one of Gods elected can no more be seuered from charitie then heate from fire or light from the sunne and therefore if Dauid killing Vrias lost his charitie no doubt but therewithall he lost his faith The Minor I proue for whosoeuer remaineth in death is without charitie but Dauid when he killed Vrias remained in death Ergo Dauid when he killed Vrias was without charitie If he was without that which once he had no doubt but then he lost it for he was depriued thereof for his sinne The Maior proposition of this last Syllogisme thus I proue for charitie is the life of the soule and it is as impossible for a man to haue charitie and remaine in death as it is impossible to be dead in body and yet indued with a resonable soule The Minor cannot be denied to wit that Dauid by killing Vrias remained in death for it is the expresse word of God Qui non diligit manet in morte He that loueth not his neighbour remaineth in death but certaine it is that Dauid loued not Vrias when he killed him Ergo likewise certaine it is that Dauid remained in death The same position might easily be proued out of the eighteenth chapter of Ezech. vers twentie foure Si autem aucrterit se iustus a iustitia sua c. Answere I Deny the Minor or second proposition that Dauid in procuring Vrias to be killed lost his charitie For although in this cōbat betweene the spirit and the flesh in Dauid the spirit retired and the flesh preuailed the new man was foyled and the old man ouercame yet was not the spirit vtterly extinguished nor the new man cleane killed In deede Dauids faith fainted his charitie was cooled and his other gifts and graces couered yet not cleane