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A41388 Firmianus and Dubitantius, or, Certain dialogues concerning atheism, infidelity, popery, and other heresies and schisme's that trouble the peace of the church and are destructive of primitive piety written in a plain and easie method for the satisfaction of doubting Christians / by Tho. Good. Good, Thomas, 1609-1678. 1674 (1674) Wing G1029; ESTC R23950 83,883 174

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Righteous as all the Law which is set before you this day which as to their clearness are highly improved under the Gospel engaging us upon higher and more heavenly motives those under the Law being for the most part Temporal to deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts to live Soberly Righteously and Godly in this present world Tit. 2. 12. There is no virtue which Christian Religion commendeth not no duty which it commandeth not no vice no sin which it does not condemn no Religion doth so much condemn Pride worldly-mindedness sensuality filthy lusts a poore private narrow Spirit selfishness as this no Religion doth so much commend humility meekness selfe-denyal charity peace unity no ●eligion doth so much exalt reason above passion and sence doth so much enoble the Spirit of man making it to look upon the Riches honors pleasures of the world as so many vain shadows deluding dreams transitory nothings the great design of it is not carnal and worldly but high and heavenly as to set forth t●e Glo●y of God to lift up the Soul above the Cre●ture to lead man by the way of holyness to everlasting happiness This Religion gives us the highest motives for the sincere practise of Piety and all manner of virtuous living th●t possible c●n be the pleasures of an holy life here the enjoyment of eve●lasting happiness hereafter it gives the strongest reasons against the power o● temp●ation● te●●hing us to mortifie the lusts of the flesh an● to contemn the vanities of the world putting the joyes of Heaven the torments of Hell the love of God in the ballance against the ple●sures of sin whi●h are no more then a feather to the massy glob of the earth Lastly Christian Religion from holy Scripture on which 't is founded doth reve●l unto us the nature attributes and works of God beyond all the Religions that ever were in the world how doth it magnifie and reconcile the justi●e and mercy of God towards sinful man How do●h it set forth the infinite power and wisdom of ●o● in making the world of nothing in such an excellent form and beauty which has drawn all ●o●sidering men into an admiration of the goodly fabrick of it Yet the must acute Philosophers were at a loss how and when 't was made whether 't was from all eternity or had a beginning in time whether 't was m●de of pr●existen● m●tter o● of the fo●tuitous concourse of Atoms whi●h fond opinions deserve not any serious confutation But the holy Scripture doth ●le●rly solve all these doubts is indeed the best Cōment on the book of Nature and doth give such an account of the original of the world the time and method of its production the peopling of nations the confusion of languages the depravation of nature which the Heathens understanding not fancied two principals one good the other evil from which all the good and evil in the world did proceed Mans recovery by the sacrificing of the Son of God for want of the knowledge and belief thereof all the bloody sacrifices practised by the Hea●hens were meer Impostures and ridiculous nothings these and divers other mysteries far above mans capacity to devise and not within the compass of natural corrupt reason are made plain unto us by Scripture Revelation which does abundantly prove that none but an infinite God could be Authour of this Divine Revelation of which those of the Heathens that of Mahomet were so many apish imitations diabolical cheats Dub. I am fully satisfied by the characters which you have given of the Religion in practise with the people of God especially with the Christians that the rule and measure of it must be from heaven not from men and consequently that all holy Scripture is divinely inspired is the word of the eternal God Firm. I could further acquaint you with many mo●e reasons to confirm you in this great truth which are common in every Authour that treats of it ●s namely the Antiquity of holy Scripture some part of it being before all writings the continu●nce of it by an extraordinary providence notwith●tanding the rage and malice of cruel bloody persecutors the sincerity impartiality candour simplicity of its writers quibus nullum fuit mendac ii praemium they had no earthly motives to perswade them to utter such forgeries as Atheist deem them to be nothing but bonds and imprisonments losses of goods and lives Again it must be acknowledged that the Pen-men of the Scripture were very good men or very bad for men of a cold indifferency they could not be If they were very good men they would never have conspired together to put such a cheat such a grand imposture upon the world as Anti-Scripturists would have the word of God to be If very bad they would never have wrot with so much zeal and earnestness against all manner of wickedness and especially against Lying and Hypocrisie Certainly they would never have exposed themselves to hazard lives and fortunes for no other reward then to be esteemed both Knaves and Fools by all prudent men Add to this that Lyers and Cheats do not usually agree one with the other but there is such a sweet harmony consent betwixt the Pen-men of Holy writ tho they lived at so great a distance from one another that questionless they were acted by one and the same infallible spirit Lastly The aversness the slowness that is in our corrupt hearts to believe all that is written in the Law and the Prophets Luke 24.25 a●ising from that contrariety which is betwixt the holy and spiritual word of God and our carnal and depraved minds is no small proof of the truth of it for 't is otherwise impossible to render any ration●l account why we should doubt or disbelieve this sacred word and never once question the truth of ordinary and common Histories which are conveyed down unto us not with the tenth part of that evidence which we have of the truth of holy Scripture But waving these reasons I shall only mention Two of the best which are urged against Infidelity to bring up the reer of my discourse The First whereof shall be taken from the fulfilling of Prophesies the other from Miracles which are the Seals of this our Magna Charta Dub. Tho I am sufficiently confirmed in the truth of this great principle by what you have already said yet I would most gladly hear your Arguments from Prophesies and Miracles Firm. First for Prophesies I shall acquaint you with some few out of the Old Testament to which your own reading may suggest many more which were exactly fulfilled according as they were foretold Dub. Did not Astrologers and Heathen Oracles foretel many things that came to pass as they were foretold Firm. I grant it but hear what judgment a learned Heathen passes upon them The Gods do foretel some natural things to come for that they observe the order conjunction of their natural causes but of things
all eternity I shall prove by instancing in two of the most principal of them to wit the Sun in the Firmament and Man that dwells upon the face of the earth by which you may judge of the rest Dub. If you can prove that the Sun was not from eternity and that there was a first Man and consequently that mankind had a beginning I shall be abundantly satisfied it that wherein at present I much doubt viz. The worlds beginning Firm. Before I proceed to my arguments you must give me leave to lay down certain principles which no rational man will deny As for example 1. Quicquid fit fit ab alio whatsoever is made is made by somthing else for nothing can make it self 2. Omne ens est vel factum fi●itum dependens vel non factum infinitum independens every thing that is is either made finite independent or not made infinite independent 3. Vere i●finitum non habet principium aut finem that which is truly infinite has neither beginning not end 4. Non datur pro●essus in infinitum we cannot pro●eed in numbering from effects to causes or in any other way imaginable infinitely but we must come ●o some period o● end 5. Infinitum no● potest pertransiri 't is impossible to pass over or through that which is infinite so as to come to an end of it seeing what is infinite has no end 6. Infinito ●il potest addi to that which is infini●e nothing can be added to make it greater or more then 't was before that addition 7. Aeternitas est duratio ●nterminabilis sine partium successione in qua non datur prius posterius Eternity in its full and proper notion is a boundless duration without beginning or end without succession of parts as that one part of it should be either before or after another Dub. No rational man can deny any of these principles but I much wonder how so great a master of reason as Aristotle was should grant all or most of these and hold the eternity of the world and not be sensible of manifest contradictions Firm. That the Eternity of the world is a flat contradiction to many of these principles is evident that Aristotle was an acu●e Philosopher cannot be denied but it must be granted he was but a man and one that had only the light of corrupted nature to guide him he might therefore err not knowing the Scripture nor indeed the power of God and therefore he w●s ignorant how the world could have a beginning and seeing he very resolutely maintained that ex nihilo ni●il fit that whatsoever is made is made of somthing and that of somthing else and so we mu●● proceed in infinitum which he positively denied as absurd and impossible as well he might or else the world must be from all eternity proceeding from the first mover whom he conceived to be a necessary not a free Agent as heat from the fire or light from the sun and therefore eternally existing with that first mover or first cause however some have affirmed that in his Book de Mundo if that be his he retracted this error which has been a grand occasion of Atheism as F●rra upon Aquin●s ●ontra Gent. has truly observed Dub. And well he might if 't was built upon ●o sandy a foundation as to make God a necessary Agent for that was to render him inferiour to some of his Creatures which are free and voluntary But pray leave the Philosopher to his other errors and self-contradictions and make it appear if you can that he erred in asserting the eternity of the world Firm. That I hope to perform by principles granted by all sober men There is nothing in the world but either 't was made and had a beginning or 't was not made but was from all eternity now t is evident that there is no particular thing in this visible world which was not made The Sun Moon Stars were made Men Beasts and Plants were made For brevity sake I shall only instance in the Sun and in Man that they were made and had a beginning and consequently the Moon and Stars ●easts and Plants 1. That the Sun was made and had a beginning I thus demonstrate That which was not from all eternity but had a beginning was made and that by somthing else because nothing can make it self but the Sun was not from all eternity The Major is evident the Minor is thus confirmed If the Sun was from all eternity then either it moved from all eternity or it stood still if it moved from eternity then 't was eternally together in the East Meridian and West not first in the East then in the Meridian then in the West for in an eternal motion if any such motion were possible there can be no ●uccession no first or last prius or posterius because in such a motion there is neither beginning no● end Dub. 'T is evident by what you say that the Sun has not moved from eternity but how can you prove it did not stand still from eternity seing there are some that hold it alwaies stood still and never moved to this day but that the earth moves and the Sun not at all Firm. It hinders not the force of the Argument whether you hold the earth move and the Sun stands still or the contrary for 't is but shifting the Scene and puting the Earth instead of the Sun and the reason will be altogether the same Dub. I perceive it does not and therefore let me hear how you can prove that the Sun did not stand still from all eternity Firm. If the Sun stood still from eternity then there was an eternal night upon half the face or Globe of the earth and an eternal day up on the other half or at least many other gross absurditie● would follow No vicissitudes or changes of night and day summer and winter spring and autumn and consequently no productions or generations of Men Beasts Plants for that half of the earth which was deprived of the light and heat of the Sun which as a second cause gives life and vegetation to all the inferior Creatures that have life and growth could bring forth no vegetables or animals and the other half which was alwaies scorched with too much heat must of necess●ity be as barren by such heat as the other by extream cold and so we should have an eternal Sun to no purpose and then what will become of your eternal world Besides if the Sun stood still from eternity what caused it to move in time of it s own nature certainly it could never awake out of an eternal sleep if any thing else set it in motion then either it must be somthing that was moved by some superior Cause and this cause by another and so to an infinite number of causes which is absurd and impossible or else it must be the first mover and efficient cause of all things which is