wherfore yt ys onlye the 〈◊〉 pes faute whâ—…h hath the satisfaction in his po wer and wyll not geue it till he haue monye aÌ„d not goddes faute which must nedes tarie vntyl satisfactyon be made And so ys thys reason as stronge as it was before and the pope proued a cruell tyraunte BUt yet to excuse the pope he sayeth It ys not mete that the pope shulde be so quycke in delyueraunce for so shulde he geue a gre ate occasyon to men boldlye to falle in to synne and lytle to care or feare how slowlye they ryse agayne and that were not mete for hys offyce Horsouth thys ys a ientle reason He maye not be quicke in delyueraunce because he shulde geue men occasyon of synne But for one penye he wyll quyte delyuer you and that wyth spead For yf ye offer a penye vnto Saynt Dominykes boxe assone as ye hâ—…are the penye rin ge in the boxe even so sone ys the soule in heaven Call you not that quicke delyueraunce If you geue not that penye then maye he not delyuer the soule for yt shulde be an occasyon of synne But yf you geve that penye then is there no such occasyon of synne Such greate vertue hath that one penye in Master Mo res sight that yt clene wypeth awaye the occasyon of synne Hurthermore yf thys redempcyon maye be done for monye yt shalbe stylle an occasyon vnto the rych that they regarde not synne and yet had they more nede to be brydled then â—…he poore for where richesse and abundaunce is there raigneth sinne most of all How be it I haue shewed sufficientlve before agenst Rastell that they which feare not to sinne but for fea re of purgatorie shal never come in it but be daÌ„ ned in hell For we shulde not abstayne from sinne for any feare but for the pure loue that we haue to god oure most mercyfull father cÌ„ THen cometh Master More to this imagi nacyon that we shulde saye how no mannes prayer or good dead caÌ„ helpe a nother And sayeth he if that were true then coulde not christes bitter passion profite vs. Sir myne opinion of Christes deeth is this We haue al sinned in Adam with out oure aw ne consent and worke And we are losed from sinne thorow Christ with out oure workes or deservinges Sinne is comen in to the worlde thorow Adam and is punished with deeth The deeth thorow Christ is tourned in to a me dicyne and clene finisheth sinne One mannes sinne which is Adam hath condeÌ„ ned manye men One mannes grace which is Christe hath vanqueshed sinne and holpen manye If one mannes sinne be able to condemne vs with out oure workes Then moch more is goddes grace of power to saue vs with out oure workes Sinne thorow Adam was planted in vs. Grace thorow Christ is planted in vs. Sinne hath had dominion ouer all men thorow Adam Grace prevayleth ouer vs thorow Christe Deeth thorow sinne is planted in vs. Liffe thorow grace is planted in vs Deeth thorow sinne hath dominion over vs. Liffe thorow grace prevayleth ouer vs. Sinne and deeth haue condemned all men Grace and liffe haue saved all men Thorow Adam Adams sinne was counted oure awne Thorow Christ Christes rightwysnesse is repu ted vnto vs for oure awne Of this maye you perceave that we thinke that Christes deeth profiteth vs for we take his deeth and resurrection for oure hole redeâ—… cyon and saluacyon Now as concerninge mennes good deades and prayers I saye that they profitte oure neyghboures yee and good workes were ordeyned for that entent that I shulde profite my neyghboure thorow them And prayer ought to be made to god for everye state But if I shulde graunte that such workes and prayers shuld helpe them that are departed then shulde I speake cleane with out my bo ke for the worde of god knoweth no such thinge Let them therfore that praye for the deed exa mine them selves well with what faith they do it for faith leaneth onlye on the worde of god so that where his worde is not there can be no good faith and if their prayer procede not of faith surelye it can not please god Hebre. xj NOw suppose sayeth master More y t purgatorye coulde in no wyse be proved by scri pture and that some wolde yet saye playnlye y t there were one and some wolde saye playnlye naye let vs now se whether sorte of these twayne might take most harme if their parte were y e wronge Furst he that beleved there were purâ—… and that his prayer and good workes wrought for his frendes soules might relyeve them therin and because of that vsed moch pra per and almose for them he coulde not lese y â— rewarde of his good will although his opinioÌ„ we re vntrue and that there were no purgatorye at all But on the tother side he that beleveth there is none and therfore prayeth for none if his opinion be false and that there be purgatorye in dead he lesâ—…th moch good and getteth him al so moch harme For he both feareth moch lesse to sinne and to lye longe in purgatorie savinge that his heresye shall kepe him thence and sende him doune depe in to hell I answere that he shulde take most harme that beleved there were a purgatorye if his opinion were wronge and coulâ—…e not be proved by the scripture as master More supposed for he shulde sinne and transgresse agenst the lawe of god which sayeth Deuteronomye xij That I commaunde the y t onlye do vnto the lorde neyther adde any thinge nor diminish And before in the. iiij chaptre of y â— same boke yee shall not adde vnto the worde that I speake vnto you neyther shall ye take any thinge from it And agayne in the. v. chaptre ye shall not decline neyther to the right hand doinge y â— which is good in youre awne sight neyther yet vnto y â— left haÌ„de doinge that which I manifestlie forbide you as though he shulde saye do that onlye which I coÌ„maunde the. And where master More sayeth y t he can not lese the rewarde of his good will although his opinion be vntrue I answere yes for it is but chosen holinesse which Paule condemneth Colos. ij which surelye shall rather be imputed vnto him for sinne then for any good worke And because as I sayed before it can not be done thorow faith I saye that it is vtter lye reproved of god And on the tother side he y t beleveth it not sith it can not be proved by scripture can catch no harme at all although his opinion were false but rather moch good prayse both of god and all good men because he feareth to swerve from the worde of god and had lever not to beleue y t thinge whiâ—…h is true be it in case that purgatorye were aÌ„d not sette forth
maye he reioyce but not before god But what sayeth the scrypture Abraham belcued god and that was unputed vnto him for rightwysnes for he that worketh reccaueth hys rewarde not of savoure but of dutye Now if it be dutye then ne deth he not to thanke god but rather hym selfe for then god geueth hym nothinge but y t which ys hys awne of dutye Where ys then the prayse and glorye that we owe to god Therfore yt foloweth in y â— same texte vnto him y t worketh not but beleueth in hym that iustefieth the wy ked ys his faith imputed â—…or ryghtwysenes Now if oure saluacyon come of fayth and not thorow oure workes desertes thâ—… is purgato rie shutte out of dore quite vanisheth awayeâ—… Christ sayeth So hath god loued the worlde that he wolde geue hys onlye sonne that all whych beieue in hym shuld not perish but that they shulde haue everlastinge liffe Ioan. 3. TheÌ„ what nedeth purgatoriâ—… Thou wilt paraduen turesay it is true they shal haue euerlastige life but they must first go thorow purgatorye I an swere naye verelye But christ affirmeth that with an oth that he which heareth his worde beleveth his father which sent him hath everlastinge liffe yee that he is gone alreadye from deeth vnto liffe Ioan. 5. wilt thou now saye y t he shall in to purgatorye for south if that were true and the fyre also so hote as our prelates af firme then went he not froÌ„ deeth vnto lyffe but rather from a small deeth vnto a greater deeth The prophete sayeth precious is in the sight of the lorde the deeth of his sayntes Psal. 116. And. S. Ioan. sayeth blessed are the deed which dye in the lorde Apo. 14. but surelye if they shuld go in to y â— paynfull purgatorye there to be tour mented of fendes theÌ„ were they not blissed but rather wretched God sayeth by Moses Exodi 33. I will shewe mercye to whom I shew mercie and will ha ue compassioÌ„ on whom I haue coÌ„passion Now ifoure saluacion be of mercye and compassion then can there be no soch purgatorye For y â— na ture of mercye is to forgeue but purgatorye wil haue all payde and satisâ—…yed so that they tway ne be desperate and can in no wyse agre And lo ke how manye textes in scripture commeÌ„d goddes mercye even so manye deny this paynfull purgatorye The prophete sayeth he hath not dealt with vs after oure sinnes neyther hath rewarded vs accordinge to oure iniquytyes but loke how hye heauens are aboue the erth even so hye hath he made his mercye to preuayle ouer them that worshuppe him And loke how farre the east is from the west even so farre hath he sette oure sinnes from vs. Psal. 103. And before 〈◊〉 the same psalme the prophete exhorteth hys soule to prayse the lorde sayenge Prayse the lorde o my soule which forgeueth y â— all thyne iniquityes aÌ„d healeth all thy dyseas es Now yf this be true y t he ordoreth vs not accordinge to oure sinnes but poureth hys mercye so plentu â—…uslic vppoÌ„ vs if also he forgeue vs all oure inâ—… quityes why shulde there be any such purgatorye to purge and tourment the sely soules and speeyallye sith all was forgeuen them before wilt thou not calle hym a shrewed creditou â—…e whych after he hath frelye forgeuen hys deâ—… toure wyll yet cast hym in preson for the same debte I thinke euerye man wold saye on thys maner It was in hys awne pleasure whether he wolde forgeue it or not and then of favoure and compassyon he forgaue it But now he hath forgeuen yt he doeth vnryghtwyslye to punysh hys debtoure for yt And all be yt man repent hys forgeuynge and afterwarde sue for hys debte yet god can never repent hym selfe of hys mercyable giftes Roma xi And therfore wyll he uâ—…uer tourment vs for oure trespaces no nor yet once remembre them Ezechyelis 18. Hebre. 10. â—…yth god forgeueth the greater offences why shall he not also forgeue the lesse He forgaue frelye moch greater offences vnto the publycane whych knowleged hym sylfe to be a synner Luce. 18 then those be for whych men fayne that we must be tourmen ted in purgatorye For there ys no soule as they graunte them selves that suffreth in purgatorye for greate crimes and mortall syn nes But onlye for lytle preatye peccadu tyans yf a man maye be boolde to vse Master Mores worde and for veniall sinnes Dis. 25. Cap. qualis He forgaue moch greater enormityes vnto the thefe to whom he sayed this daye shalt thou be with me not in purgato rye but in paradyse Luc. xxiij He forgaue moch greater vnto Marye Mawdelene Luce. vij Is his hande now shortened Is not his power as greate as it was Is he not as merciful as ever he was why leave we the cisterne of lyvinge water and digge vs pittes of oure a wne which can hold no pure water Hieremie ii why forsa ke we Christ which hath hoellye purged vs an seke a nother purgatorye of oure awne imaginacion If thou beleue that Christes bloude is sufficient to purge thy sinne why sekest thou a nother purgatorye S. Paule sayeth I desyre to be loosed from this bodye and to be with Christ Phil. 1. Uerelye if he had thought to haue gone thorow purgatorye he wolde not haue bene so hastye For there shuld he haue had an hote broth an hart lesse and so might he rather haue desyred longe to have lyved And therfore I suppose that he knew nothinge of purgatorye but y t he rather thought as the truth is y t deeth shulde finish all his evylles and sorowes aÌ„d geue him rest in loosinge him from his rebellious meÌ„bres which were solde and capty ve vnder sinne All christen men shuld desyre deeth as Pau 〈◊〉 doeth Phililp 1. not because of their crosse trouble which they suffer in this present worlde for then they sought them selves and their awne profyte and not the glorye of god But if we will well desyre deeth we must first coÌ„sidre how sore sinne displeaseth god oure father and then oure awne nature and frayltye and oure membres so bounde vnder sinne that we can not do nor yet thinke a good thought of oure selues 2. Cor. 3. Then shall we finde occasion to lament oure liffe not for the troubles that we suffer in it but because we be so prone vnto sinne and so continuallye displease god oure father Uvhat desyreth he that wolde longe lyve but daylye to hepe sinne vppon sinne And therfore shuld we haue a will to dye because that in deeth oure sin ne 〈◊〉 and then we shall no more displease god oure father Now if we shuld fayne a purgatorye it were not possible to imagyne a greater obstacle to make vs feare and flye from 〈◊〉 For sith everye man must knowlege him silfe a 〈◊〉 1. Joan. 1. And
sacrify ces can do them no good before they be rysen agayne froÌ„ deeth for els were it not in vayne to praye for theÌ„ although they shuld never ryse agayne As by example if I saye to a maÌ„ that he shall neuer optaine his purposse excepte he shul de sue to y â— kinges grace it is even as moch to saye to a mâ—… y â— hath any witte as he shall neuer optayne hys purposse before he hath sued to y â— kinges highnes Master More goeth a boute to â—…est them out of contenaunce whych saye that the boke of Machabees ys not autentyke because yt ys not receaved in the Canon of the hebrues and sayeth that by thys reason we maye also denye y â— boke of sapience and proue oure selues insipâ—… entâ—…s but 〈◊〉 if he admitte the boke of sapâ—… ence to be true and autentike I feare me it will go nye to proue him an insipient for grauntynge y t there is a purgatorie Reade y â— 45. argument agâ—…st Rastell aÌ„d theÌ„ iudge whether I saie true or not Hetherto haue I let slippe oure shoteanker haue runne y â— sees with him grauÌ„tinge him for hâ—…s pleasure y t thys boke shulde be of as good auctorite as Esai Not that the church or holie doctours or ani wise maÌ„ supposeth it of so good auctorite but onelye to se whate coÌ„clusion myght be brought vppoÌ„ it y t once grauÌ„ted And if any maÌ„ wold require my iudgemeÌ„t as coÌ„cernin ge this boke I wolde shortlye answere that ey ther thys boke is false aÌ„d of no auctoryte or els that Christ and hys apostles all holye doctoures and scolemen therto are false and with out auctoryte For he that admitteth prayers and sacrifyce to be done for the deed yee and also af fermeth that they are holye and holesom forsuch sinnes as are damned by the lawe of god which are in dede verye mortall doth not he a genst the worde of god yee and also agenâ—…t the comen consent of all men But thys boke doth so whych admitteth prayer and sacryfice to be done for the deed that were slaine in the battay le for their offence yee aÌ„d also dampned by the law Deutero 7. Now conclude youre selves what ye thinke of this boke Thus moch hath Master More brought to proue hys purposse out of the old testameÌ„t and I thynke ye se yt suffycyentlye answered And now he entendeth to proue hys purga torye by good and substancy all auctory te in the new testament also FIrst let vs considre saieth Master More the wordes of y â— blessed apostle aÌ„d eâ—…ange gelist S. Ioan. where he sayeth Est peccatuÌ„ ad morteÌ„ noÌ„ dico vt pro eo roget qs There is saith he some synne y t is vnto the deeth I byd not y â— any man shulde praye for y t this synne as y â— in terpreters agre ys vnderstonden of desperacyon and impenitencie as though Sayint Ioan wolde saye that who departe out of thys worlde impenytent or in despayre any prayer after made can never stande hym in stede Then it appareth clerelye that S. Ioan. meaâ—… neth that there are other which dye not in such case for whom he wolde men shulde praye beca use that prayer to such soules maye be profitable But that profyte can no man take beinge in hea â—…en where et nedeth not nor beinge in hell where it boteth not wherefore it appeareth y â— such praier helpeth onlye for purgagorye which thou must therfore nedes graunte excepte thou denye S. Iohan. The texte is writen 1. Ioan. 5. which sayeth there is a sinne vnto the deeth I bid not that any man shal praye for that In this place doth Master More vnderstoÌ„de by this worde deeth temporall deeth and then he taketh his pleasure But we will desyre him to loke ij lynes abo ue and not to snatch one pece of the texte on this facion I wil reherse you the hole texte and then ye shall heare myne answere The texte is this if any man perceave that his brother doth 〈◊〉 a sinne not vnto the deeth let him aske he shall geue him liffe to theÌ„ that sinne not vnto â—…th For there is somme sinne that is vnto dee th I bid not that any man shulde praye for tha 〈◊〉 Now 〈◊〉 myne answere Deeth an liffe 〈◊〉 contrarye and both wordes are in this tex te t 〈◊〉 if you vnderstonde this worde deeth 〈◊〉 emporall deeth theÌ„ must you also vnderstoÌ„ de 〈◊〉 this worde liffe teÌ„porall liffe And so shulâ—… 〈◊〉 prayer restore men agayne vnto tempo rall 〈◊〉 But I ensure you Mastre More taket 〈◊〉 this worde deeth so confusedlye that no 〈◊〉 can tell what he meaneth For in one place he taketh it for temporall deeth sayenge who so 〈◊〉 out of this worlde impeniteÌ„t cÌ„ and 〈◊〉 a nother place he is compelled to take it for therlastinge deeth Therfore will I shewe you y â— very vnderstondinge of y â— texte And better in â—…erpreters desyre I none then Christ him sâ—…lfe which sayed vnto the pharisees everye blasphe mye shall be forgeuen but the blasphemye ageÌ„st the holye gost which S. Ihoan calleth a sinne vnto the deeth shall never be forgeven but is â—…iltye vnto everlastinge dampnacion Mar. iij. â—…hat sinne or blasphemye is this â—…erelye y â— declareth S. Marc. sayenge Thâ—…y sayed that he had an vnclene sprete that was the sinne vn to deeth everlastinge that was the sinne that shulde never be forgeven He proved so evident lye vnto them that his miracles were done with the sprete of god that they coulde not denye it â—…nd yet of an harde and obstinate harte even knowinge the contrarye they sayed that he had 〈◊〉 devell with in him These pharisees died not forth with but lâ—… ved paraduenture manye yesâ—…es after Notwithstondinge if all the apostles had prayed for these 〈◊〉 whyles they were yet ly vinge for all that their sinne shulde never haue bene forgeuen them And truth it is that after they died in impenitencye and dispetaâ—…on which was the frute of that sinne but not the sinne it silfe Now se ye the meaninge of this texte and what the sinne vnto deeth or agenst the holye â—…ost is If any man perceave his brother â—…o sinne a sinne not vnto deeth that is not agenâ—… y t holye gost let him aske and he shall geve him lif fe that is let him praye vnto god for his brother and his sinne shalbe forgeuen him But if hâ—… se his brother sinne a sinne vnto deeth y â— is ageÌ„st the holye gost let him never praye for him for it â—…oteth not And so is not the texte vnderstonde of prayer after this liffe as Master More imageneth but even of prayer for oure brother which is ly vinge with vs. Notwithstondinge this sinne is not lighlye knoune excepte y â— persone knowlege it him silfe or els the 〈◊〉 of god open it vnto vs. Ther
thys fayth resteth in peace and wayteth for the last daye when god shall geue vnto hys faythfull that is to hys electe for onlye are the electe fay thfull and the faythfull electe the croune of his glorye whych he hath prepared for them that lo ue hym Thys croune doth paule saye that he shall receaue yt in that daye 2. Timo. 4. that is in the daye of iudgement And in the meane cea son god hath so prouyded for vs that they shal wayte vntysl the numbre of theyr brothreÌ„ why ch daylie suffre and shall suffre for christ be hoe lye fulfilled and so shall they not be made perfeyte with out vs. Nebre xi If my lorde wyll vnderstonde by Abrahams bosome heauen I will not be contencyous let the chrysten iudge whych sentence semeth most true But thys is once a clere case that of thys he can proue no purgatorye For the vnfaythfull are all reâ—… dye dampned and the fayethfull rest in peace let him call that what he will whether to rest in heaven or to rest in theyr sayeth vntyll the last daye For I am sure there ys no man so mad as to saye that to rest in peace shulde sygnyfle to lye in the paynes of purgatorye â—…urthermore thys texte shall rather make sore agenst hym then any thynge with â—…ym For Lazarus whyles he was lyvinge was not wythout synne nor no man els 1. Ioh annes 1. so that no wan as longe as he hath breath in hys bodye can saye that he ys wyth out synne for then shulde he make Sa ynt Johan a lyar And yet was not Lazarus caryed in to purgatorye to be purged of hys synnes whych were remaynynge in his bodye the houre of his deeth wherfore I maye conclude that there is no such purgatorye For god is as iust vnto him as vnto vs and therfore wolde he purge him as well as vs and agayne he is as mercifull vnto vs as vnto him and will as well forgeus vs as him with out broylinge on the coles in purgatorye for his iustice and mercye are ever one and not alterable But oure perfeyte purgacion is the pure bloude of Christ which wassheth awaye the sinne of the worlde And albe it we ever haue the remnauntes and dregges of sinne and rebellion of oure membres as longe as we haue liffe yet are they hoellye finished in deeth for of such efficacâ—… te is christes deeth that it hath tourned y â— deeth of his faithfull which was layed vppon vs as the payne of sinne in to a medicyne agenst sinne whicâ—… fullye cureth it and maketh an ende of it as it was well figured in golâ—…s that was slayne with his awne swerde 〈◊〉 where as my lorde bringeth for hispur posse Mat. xii that men shall geue accouÌ„p tos of everye idle worde I haue soluted that be fore agenst master More that I thinke he shall saye him silfe that he is answered For if men shall geue a rekeninge for them on the daye of dome as the texte sayeth that shulde rather argue that there were no purgatorye wherin tho se sinnes shulde be purged for if they had bene purged before of them then shulde they not geue an accoumptes for theÌ„ And if it proved any thinge at all it shulde proue that there were a purgatorye after domesdaye which no maÌ„ waâ—… ever so folish as to graunte But the true vnderstondinge of this texte is this There are two kindes of men one fayth full the other vnfaithfull The faithfull thorow their faith in christes bloude are all readye fullye purged in their harte and their rebellious mâ—…res thorow deeth are hoellye subdued The se men shall geue no rekeninge neyther of idle worde nor evell dede For all their sinnes are co vered of Christ and his bloude shall geue the hoell accoumptes for them The vnfaithfull vnto their vtter confusion shall haue the boke of their conscience opened aÌ„d there shall be preseu ted before them al their evell dendes wordes aÌ„d thoughtes And these are they that christ speaketh off which shal geue this greate accoumptâ—… Note also that in the texte they are called men which worde in scripture is ever for the most parte takeÌ„ in y â— worst sense and signifyeth wyked men fleshlye men and men that folowe theyr awne lu stes aÌ„d appetites ☜ â—…hen confirmeth he purgatorye out of thâ—… 〈◊〉 Psalme which sayeth we haue gonâ—… thorow fire ad water and thou hast brought 〈◊〉 in to colenesse I am sure you haue not forgoteâ—… that Master More allegeth the prophete zachâ—… rye in the. ix and affirmeth that there is no waâ—… ter in purgatorye It were harde to make theâ—… two agre for when men grounde them on a lyâ—… then for the most parte theyr tales and probaâ—… ons are contrarye and will not well â—…onde 〈◊〉 gither Neverthelesse in one poynte they agâ—… full well that is both of them saye vntrulye 〈◊〉 neither nother texte serveth anie whitte for pâ—… â—…atorye And as concerninge the place of zacharye it is suffecieÌ„tlye declared whath it meaneth And now will I also declare you the vnderâ—… dinge of this texte and first that it can not serve for purgatorye I vesech you that haue the psalter once to reaâ—… the psalme and I thinke you shal wondre at their dotinge dreames and ignoraunce which allege this texte for purgatorye The textâ—… of the psalme is this thou hast brought vs in to a strayght and laded oure backes with trouble or 〈◊〉 Thou hast sette men vppon oure heedes we hauâ—… gone thorow fyre and water and thou hast ledde vs out agay ne in to a place of refreshinge The textes befo re and after in the same psalme will not suffâ—… that this place shulde be vnderstonde of purga torye For the texte immediatlye before sayeth thou hast sette men vppon oure heedes But y â— thefest defendars of purgatorye and even Ma stre More him silfe saye that they are not men but devels which torment the soules in purgatorye notwithstandinge my lorde of Rochestre good man affirmeth that they are aungels which tourment the soules there but never man dooted so farâ—…re as to saye that men tourment the soules in purgatorye wherfore I maye conclude that his texte is not ment of purgatorye but that the prophete ment that men ranne over the children off Israhell and subdued them and wrapped them in extreme troubles which in the scripture are signified by fire water Besydes y t y â— textes folowinge wil not admitte y t this shulde be vnderâ—…de of purgatorye for it foloweth immediatlye I wil eÌ„tre in to thy housse with burntofferinges I shal of fre uÌ„toy â— fatte sacrifices with y â— reke of wethers I shall burne to the oxen and gotes Now is there no man so madde as to thinke that y â— soules of purgatorye shulde offre vnto god any such sacrifices So that the texte is playnlye vn
from all what nede another purgatorye nede we more purginge when all are clensed I will surelye converte Iuda and turne Israhell vnto me and I will purefye them from all their iniquytyes wherwith they haue offended me Hieremie xxxiij If he purefye them from all what shulde they do in purgatâ—…rye I wilbe mercifull vnto their wykednes and their sinnes will I no more remembre Hieremie xxxj Hebreo viij If he will not remembre oure sinnes any more theÌ„ maye we be sure that he will not frye vs in y â— fyre of purgatorye for oure sinnes NOw let vs se his seconde argumeÌ„t which is in the fourth chaptre and is surelye fon de how be it his solucioÌ„ is yet more folysh The some of his argument is this Dan was made and ordeyned to haue an in finite beinge therfore after this mortalite and deeth he must haue ifinite ioye or infinite payne I will put you a like argument A man is or deyned in this worlde to be a kinge or a subiecte therfore after he is borne he is ever a kinge or â—…s ever a subiecte Now maye this be false for paradventure he maye be borne a subiecte and after made kinge or els he maye be borne a kin ge and after deposed and made a subiecte Ther fore this argument holdeth not formallye But it holdeth on this maner as I shulde saye to an ape thou must nedes be an ape or an asse which now is true But if I shuld saye the verye same wordes to Master Iohan Rastell I thinke he wolde be angrye and saye that it we re false And I suppose oure scolemen will saye that he lyeth aÌ„d put him an ensample of the enâ—…auntes that dye with out christndome whiche as the scolemeÌ„ saye shall never haue ioye nor payne But I will graunte him his argumeÌ„t to se how properlye he wil confute it Now marke his answere which stondeth in the. v. chaptre There are degrees in sinnes some sinnes are greate and some greater and therfore must there be degrees in punishment some punishment is greate and some greater 〈◊〉 for youre ple asure I â—…m content to graunte you this to But els were it a matter worthye disputacion what now 〈◊〉 that a man saieth Rastel here in erth hath committed a greate sinne and offence and taken repentaunce wherbye the sinne is forgeven marke that he beinge ignoraunt of Christ saieth thorow repentaunce the sinne is forgeven and yet hath not taken such suffycyent repentaunce therfore nor had any suffycyent punishment which shulde make a full payment and satisfaccioÌ„ for that sinne and dyeth before any condigne or full satisfaccioÌ„ made god must then of his rightwysnes ordeyne a place of pur gatorye where his soule shall haue a further pu nishment to make a condigne and full satis faccion for that sinne and so to be purged and purefyed before it shalbe able and worthy to be ad mitted to receave the eternall ioye in heaven First brethren you must graunte that we haue a Christ or no Christ a redemer or no reâ—… mer a iustefyer or no iustefyar If there be none such as Rastell with his turcke Gingemin suppose then al the repentaunce in the worlde coul de not satisfye for one synne but whosocuer coÌ„ mitted a sinne shulde be dampned therfore So that Rastell speaketh and seyth al in diminutyues for where he shulde of truth spye hell the re espyeth he but purgatorye And where he shuld saye that al sinners if they stick not to Christes bloude shall be dampned eternallye there saieth he that they shalbe punished in pur gatorye And to be shorte if Rastell saye truth theÌ„ is Christ deed in vayne If he saye not truth why stick you to his reason But paraduentute thou that knowest Christ wilt saye as manie do that Christes deeth and redempcion serueth the but for originall sinne or at most for those sinnes that thou committedst before baptyme To that I answere with S. Ioan. Children this do I wryte vnto you y â— ye sin ne not And if any maÌ„ sinne yet we haue an ad vocate with the father Iesus Christ which is rightwyse And he it is that obtayneth grace for oure sinnes not for oure sinnes onlye but also for the sinnes of all the worlde To whom wrote S. IoaÌ„ this epistle Thinke you that he wrote not vnto the christen and them that were all readye baptized And yet he sayed if any maÌ„ sinne we haue an aduocate with the father Ie sus Christ which is rightwysâ—… and he it is that obtayneth grace for oure sinnes Loo he adnum breth him 〈◊〉 also for he sayeth we haue an ad vocate and sayeth agayne for oure sinnes â—…e maye se that he meaneth not onlye originall sin ne neyther yet the sinnes done before baptyme for I doubte not but he was baptized when he wrote this pistle and yet sayed he if we sinne meaninge after baptyme or when so euer it be we haue an advocate with the father Ihesus Christ this is S. Ioans lerninge he knew no nother remedye if we felle in to sinne but onlye Christ. Not withstandinge oure prelates haue pactized further for they saye if any man sinne he shall lye in the paynes of purgatorye vntill he be delyuered thence by masse pence the popes pardon or certen other suffragyes but not with out Monye you maye be sure Christ saieth no man cometh vnto the father but thorow me Iohan. xiii for sayeth he I am the waye yes lorde oure prelates haue espyed a nother waye which although it be more payn full vnto the poore yet is it more profitable for the prelates Come vnto me all ye that laboure and are laden and I will ease you saieth oure savioure Christ Iesu. Matthei xi wilt thou sende vs lor de in to purgatorye forsouth there is litle ease if the fyre be so hote as oure prelates haue fayned it It is even I that put out thyne iniquytyes for myne awne sake saieth god the father and thy sinnes will I no more remembre Estate 〈◊〉 Ergo then he putteth them not a waye for broylinge in purgatorye He addeth also that he will no more remembre oure sinnes calle ye that no remembraunce to cast vs in to purgatorye for them â—…hom god predestinated them he called and whom he called them he iustefyed and what did he with them then Did he cast them in to purgatorye there to be clensed forsouth the apostle maketh no mencion therof but addeth immedi atlye whom he iustefyed them he glorefyed Romano viiâ—… wherfore let not vs put such obstacles and be vâ—…kinde vnto the gracious favoure of god Besides that Paule forbiddeth vs to be ca refull for them that slepe that is to saye for the deed as they that haue no hope But surelye if he had knowne of any purgatorye he wolde ha ue bene carefull for them sith they fayne them in such miserable
their deeth For when I saye that I wyll not forgeue hym neyther in my liffe nor after my deeth I meane that I wyll neuer forgeue hym and make that addicion because he shulde not of folysh nes loke for any such forgevenesse But thus foloweth the argumeÌ„t well it shall not be forgeuen in thys worlde nor in the worl de to come ergo it shall neuer be forgeuen And even so doth Saynte Marce expounde these wordes of christ in the thyrde chaptre For Mathew sayeth in the. xii He that speaketh ag enst the holye goost shall neuer haue yt forgeuen in this worlde nor in the worlde to come Marc. expoundeth yt thus he that spea keth a blaspemye agenst the holye gost hath no remission for ever but is giltye vnto euerlastinge damnacyon But of thys haue I spoken suffycientlye before in solutynge the texte 1. Ioan. 5. both what the synne ys and also how the texte ys to be vnderstande Neyther affeâ—…meth the scripture in anye place y t anye sinne ys forgeueÌ„ after this liffe but saith be readye for ye knowe not the tyme when the lorde shall come as who shulde saye in thys lyfe ys remissyon and full mer cye to â—…e had laboure therfore to attayne yt for after thys lyfe ys no such forgevene sse but eueÌ„ as y â— lorde fyndeth y â— so shal he iudge y â— Hys nexte last argu meÌ„t of scriptu re is thys ☜ CHryst saeyth as yt ys rehersed in y â— xii of Mathew y â— men shall yelde a rekenynge of everye ydle worde and that shalbe after thys present lyffe TheÌ„woteth euerye man that by that rekeninge ys vnderstonde a punyshmeÌ„t therfore whych shall not be in hell moch lesse in heueÌ„ aÌ„d therfore caÌ„ yt be now here els but in purgatoye 〈◊〉 I haue not harde of a partone that so vnprofytable defendeth hys clyent nor yet of any man that geueth hym sylfe such propre trippes to cast hym selfe excepte he wâ—…nt aboute to betraye and vtterlye destroye the parte which he wolde seme to fauoure for this texte maketh more agenst him theÌ„ anye that he brought before semeth to make wi th him The wordes of Mathewe are these I tell you that of everye idle worde that men spe ake shall they yelde a rekeninge in y â— daye of iu dgement but that leuetâ—… he out full craftelye Now let vs reason of this texte By the rekenin ge is vnderstonde a punishment for the sinne as Master More sayeth him silfe and this re keninge shalbe vppon the daye of dome ergo then this punishment for sinne can not be before the daye of dome but eyther vppon or els after the daye of dome For god will not first punish them and then after reken with theÌ„ to punish them anewe And so is purgatorye quyte excluded For al they that ever imagined anye purgatorye do put it before the iudgement for when christ cometh to iudgement then ceaseth pâ—…rgatorye as they all consent neyther is there any prayer or sufrage which at that tyme caÌ„ do anye helpe at all And so hath master More by this texte geven him silfe a propre fall Here maye you se â—…ow stroÌ„ge his reasons are and what will happen to him that taketh in haÌ„ de to defende the falsehed agenst the truth of goddes worde for his reasons make more ageÌ„st him then with him you maye wel knowe that if his matter had bene anye thinge likelye he wol de haue coloured it if a nother facion But sith such a patrone so greatlye commended for his conveyaunce and wysedome handleth this mat ter so slenderlye you maye well mistrust his cau se. Thâ—…s is the last reason grounded of scripture wher with he hath laboured to proue purgatorye And after his reason he rekeneth vpp the doctoures aÌ„d saith for his pleasure that all make for him but as touchinge the doctours I wil make a suffycient answere in the thirde parte which is agenst my lorde of Rochestre Thus he leueth the scripture which he hath full vnmanerlye handled and now endevoureth him silfe to proue his purposse by some pro bable reasons And first he bringeth in his olde argument that the church can not erre to the which reason I nede not to answere for wyllyam Tindale hath declared abundantlye in a treatise which by goddes grace you shall shortlye haue whate the church is and also that it both maye erre and doth erre if the pope aÌ„d his adherentes be the church as master More imagineth After this he coÌ„firmeth his phantasye with phantasticall apparicions sayenge that there haue in everie contre and in everye age ap paricions bene had and wel knowne and testifyed by which men haue had suffycient reuelation and proâ—…e of purgatorye How manye haue by goddes most gracious fauoure appered to their frendes after their deeth and shewed them selves holpen and delyuered thence by pil grimages almosedede prayer cÌ„ If they saye y â— these be lyes then be they moch worse theÌ„ their master Luther him silfe for he coÌ„senteth in his sermons that manye such apparicions be truâ—… and if they be true then must there nedes be a purgatorye Here playeth master More the sotle sophâ—… â—…ter and wolde deceave meÌ„ with a fallace which lyeth in this worde true so that wheÌ„ he sayeth that such apparicions be true this sentence ma ye be taken two maner of wayes One that it is true that such phaÌ„tastical apparicions do ap peare to diverse and that I thinke no man be so folish but he will graunte him And yet in dede are they no soules but verye devels that so appeare to delude men that they shulde falle from the faith of Christ and make a god of their awne workes trustinge to be saved therebye But to suppose this true y â— they are the soules of purgatorye which so appeare is verye fonde false and agenst al scriptu re for Esai sayeth shall we goo for the quicke vnto the deed that is shall we enquyre of the deed and beleue them in such poyntes as concerne oure welth Naye saith he but vnto the lawe and witnes that is vnto god and his worde And so are we monished by Esay in the. 8. that we beleue no such phantasyes we are also commaunded by the lawe of god that we enquyre not of the deed not for the truth for god abhorreth it Deuteronomye xviij Besides that the parable of the rich man and Lazarus doth vtterlye condemne all such appa ricyons that they are no soules which appeare but verye devels For when the rich man desyred that Lazarus might go and warne his brothren that they shulde not come in to that place of payne Abraham answered that they had Moses and the Prophetes addinge also that if they beleved not them then wolde they not beleue although one shulde ryse agayne and tell it thâ—…m And so maye I conclude that it were in vay 〈◊〉 to