a feeble Primacy the Pope had in those times besides his possibilities and actuality of erring euen in Catheà ra being so countermaunded reprooued and disobeyed by such incomparable Churches and teachers Secondly how dangerously the Papists put the iumpe of all their sempiternall expectations vppon the credit euen of the greatest clerkes which so vntruely falsly and corruptly relate the recordes of antiquity Next for the effect and abuse of these things in the people wee may easily see that if the fountaines bee troubled the streames cannot bee cleere as may appeare by that which followeth Many things commaunded in the holy Scriptures and of very holsome and good vse were lesse respected and cared for then many light matters whereof they ouerbouldly presumed August Epist 119. cap. 19. Many of them neglected and swallowed great things placing opinion of religion and shewing great diligence in following or practising such things as had in them small profit Hieronymus in Mattheum cap. 23. Many of them were obserued to bee troublesome to others by being caried on with a contentious obstinacy others by a superstitious timorousnesse about such trifles as neither were comfirmed by authority of the holy Scripture nor by the custome of the Church in generall neither serued for any profit to the amendment of life and manners August Epist 118. cap. 3. As for example they were very superstitious and precise in bearing about certaine little peeces of the Gospels and of the wood of the crosse istiusmodi rebus and in the like things and vsque bodié factitant doing it euen to that day hauing the zeale of God but not according to knowledge straining at a gnat and swallowing a Cammell Hieron in Matt. cap. 23. They were maruelous precise in their fastings for on their fasting dayes they would eate no oile nor bread but figges pepper nutts dates flower hony pistachia all herbes and fruits growing in the garden delicias and other delicates they would not drinke water but they would haue instead thereof sorbitiunculas delicatas delicate suppings and the Iuice of herbes pressed out and that not in a cup but in the shell of a Sea-fish they sought famam abstinentiae in delitijs commendation of their abstinence by vsing delicates Hierom. calleth these things ineptiae superstitiones Ieiunium superstitiosum in Epist ad Neapot They censured such as dined on the Sabbath soberly and did not fast as the manner of some places was that namely they were in the flesh and could not please God that they were wicked persons belly mongers and that they sauoured of the flesh and of death and their voice was this recedant a me iniqui viam eorum esse nolo and they separated from them Aug. Epist 86. ad Casulanum They would not serue God in a temple once abused to Idolatry neither eate any herbes growing in the garden nor drinke any water running from the fountaine of an Idoll-temple Idem Epist 154. Publicol They would more sharpely reprooue a man qui per octauas suas terram nudo pede tetigerit Who during the time of their octaues should touch the ground with his bare feete then a man which was with wine starke drunke Idem Epist 119. cap. 19. Some of them did absteine from eating flesh with such a mind as that they iudged those persons vncleane which did eat thereof This Augustine writeth out of the report of Ianuar. Epist 119. cap. 20. and giueth his censure thereof that namely apertissimé contra fidem sanamque doctrinam est In a word many of them out of their owne fancies or from the custome of other places did cause such litigious questions about these matters vngrounded in the Scripture and vnprofitable in their nature that they thought nothing right which they did not themselues August Epist 118. cap. 3. And thus in part we see a small glimse of the state of the Primatiue Church of Christ which we commonly account and is heere extended from the daies of the Apostles vntil the time of S. Augustine or there about For afterwards the same which then was clouded declined vnto darke night and we will descend no lower knowing that iust exception might be taken at it in this argument Now in the next place we will giue a taste of the doctrine and practise of the Fathers and the faithfull in the middest of these corruptions that we may see how the doctrine of suffering depriuation for inconuenient ceremonies farre more for number and worse for qualitie then ours are pretended hath by them beene proposed and practised Touching their doctrine of this point thus they taught That the Apostles driftin their writings was not to set downe Canons and Decrees concerning Feasts and Holidaies or such like Ceremonies of the Church but to set downe a president of pietie good life and godly conuersation Socrat. 5. 22. Seeing there is no man able to shew any president or record in writing of fasting daies or the like traditions it is euident that the Apostles did leaue free choice and libertie to euery Church at the discretion thereof without feare compulsion and constraint to vse that which seemeth good and commendable for it selfe ibid. the like doth Augustine Epist 86. speake of fasting They obserued three sorts of Traditions or Ceremonies in the Churches of their times First such as Christ left to his Church expresly set downe in the Canonicall Scriptures which Augustine calleth an easie yoke and light burthen very few for the number very easie for the obseruation very excellent for signification he mentioneth onely baptisme and the Lords Supper whereby hee hath knit together the society noui Populi of the new Church Secondly such Traditions or Ceremonies in the Churches of their times as are not written but deliuered and are obserued throughout the whole world supposed to proceed from the Apostles or from the prescription of generall Councells whose authority was wholesome quoth he to be esteemed of such as the dayes obserued yeerely to the memoriall of Christ his passion resurrection asension and descension of the holy Ghost commonly called Pentecost or Whitsontide Thirdly such as in diuers parts and places of the world are obserued diuersly as for example that some doe fast on the Sabboth others doe not so some doe daily receiue the Communion other receiue it on certaine dayes In some places it is celebrated on all dayes without exception other where onely on Saturne dayes and on the Lords day Et si quid aliud huiusmodi animaduerti potest totum hoc genus rerum liberas habet obseruationes August Epist 118. cap. 1. 2. Ianuar. That there ought of necessity one faith to be spread ouer the whole Church as the soule within the members albeit this vnitie of faith be celebrated and solemnized with diuers obseruations by which diuersity that which is true in the substance of faith nullo modo impeditur is no way hindred because all the beautie of the Kings daughter is within but the outward Ceremonies
8. They gaue the Eucharist vnto the sicke if they required it euen when they were speachlesse Euseb 6. 43. Decret caus 26. quaest 6. 7. 8. 10. They gaue the Eucharist vnto the Baptised immediately after Baptisme Crys Epi. 1. ad Innoc. Touching Prayer THese were their Ceremonies to stand in prayer and not to kneele and all the Dominicall or Lordes dayes Basil de Spiritu sancto cap. 27. Tertullianus de resurrectione carnis Hieron cont Lucif cap. 4. This Ceremony was done in token or signification of their resurrection and further to teach them that on the day of Christ his resurrection they ought to seeke heauenly things Basil ibidem August Epist 119. de consecrat dist 3. cap. 10. quoniam out of the Nicene Councell where it was decreed This was commended to bee an Apostolicall tradition Tertull. cont Marci de coron mil. To stand in prayer and not to kneele on all dayes betweene Easter and Whitsontide commended also as Apostolicall Basil Tertul. Hieron ibid. To pray towards the East and that for this cause and signification because we seeke to Paradise our old and auncient countrie and is commended and Apostolicall Basil ibid. To pray in some places by candle light Socrat. lib. 5. cap. 22. in the day time Hier. con vigil They did also weare a linnen garment or Surplesse in the worships of God Crys hom 83. in Mat. Hier. lib. 1. contra Pelag. and of this iudgement is Zanch. de redemp cap. 16. lib. 1. fol. 444. a. and citeth Hier. P. Martyr Loc. Epist. Hoopero fol. 1087. citeth Chrisostom and Cyprians examples out of Pontius Diacon and Saint Iohns Petalus out of Ecclesiastical Historie to prooue that the originall of the Surplesse was not of Antichrist Bulling and Gual in an Epistle doe cite Theodoret. hist. 2. 27. Socra 6. 22. Iohn the Euangelist his example out of Euzebius Pontius Diacon of Cyprian and Chrisostom It is cited by A. B B. C. Whitgift defence fol. 2618. Polanus citeth Hieron comment in Esec cap. 44. fol. 807. Zepperus citeth Chrysostome and Hieron shewing that they vsed them for a signe and admonition of honest and pure life de Polit. Eccl. lib. 1. cap. 12. the like doth Zanch. vt sup Touching dayes TO celebrate the dayes of Christs Natiuitie Passion Resurrection Ascension to heauen and descension of the Spirit or Pentecostin the remembrance of these things this was obserued in all the world August Epist 118. cap 2. Origen cont Celsum lib. 8. concil Agatheus can 14. 39. also the feast of the natiuitie of Iohn the Baptist ibid. can 14. To keepe Saturne day holiday and frequent the Ecclesiasticall assembly as on the Lords day Sozomen 7. 19. 6. 41. Socrat. 6. 8. To keepe the Fryday holiday vsing thereon the Ecclesiasticall assemblies in remembrance of Christ his passion as they did obserue the Lords day in remembrance of his resurrection this was commanded by Constantinus Magnus Sozomen 1. 8. Hist. tripartit 1. To celebrate Easter day on the foureteenth of Aprill in halfe the world namely in the Easterne part but on the Lords day in the Westerne part this was commended on either part to come from the Apostles which yet could not both bee true but the trueth is saith Socrates that the Apostles left no Lawes concerning dayes but left them as a matter free lib. 5. cap. 22. Touching fasting TO fast on Thursdayes all the yeere in remembrance of Christ his assention and on Fridayes in remembrance of Christ his Passion this was commended as an Apostolicall tradition Epiphanius cont haer in Epilogo To fast on Saturnedayes in some places in other places not Augustinus Epist. 118. cap. 2. Hieronymus ad Licin Epist To fast euery Lords day so they did at Rome Socrates ibid. this Augustine reprooueth in his dayes as an euill and scandalous thing in the Roman custome because it was vsed by the Maniches and enioyned to their followers in other places they would by no meanes fast on the Lords day Augustinus ibidem Hieronymus ad Lucif Tertull. de coron mil. To fast the time of Lent before Easter by some three weekes by some sixe weekes and by some seuen weekes Socrates 5. 22. Dist 4. cap. 5. This was commended also as an Apostolicall tradition by Ambrosius Hieronimus ad Marcell And by Epiphanius Haeres 75. 80. who sheweth that the Apostles inioyned that all men should eate in Lent nothing but Bread Salt and Water howbeit this is denied by Socrat. lib. 5. cap. 22. by affirming that namely the Apostles neither made nor left any lawes for fasting but left it also as a matter free the like doeth August Epist. 86. To fast from kindes of meate some from euery kinde of liuing creatures some eating onely fish and fowles of the ayre some not egges nuttes apples nor any kinde of fruit some onely dry bread some not so much as that Socrat. 5. 22. some onely bread salt and water Epiphan Haer. 75. Touching sundry other Ceremonies TO signe ones selfe with the signe of the Crosse ad omnem progressum at euery going abroad and comming home at putting on of apparrell putting on of shooes washing sitting lying downe c. Tertull. de coron mil. Dist 11. cap. 5. eccl ex Basilio commended to bee Apostolicall To make an offering yeerely for a mans birth day Tertullian cont Marcion lib. 1. de coron mil. commended as Apostolicall yet afterward abolished for Gentilisme To wash ones feete at a certaine season Aug. Epi. 119. cap. 18. The Temples were erected to stand East and West the Altars of the Church stood Eastward and some toward the West Socrat. 5. 22. III. Lastly concerning the effects of these Ceremonies and abuse of them It is also manifest that they farre exceeded our Ceremonies prescribed in their euill effect and were much more abused First in the Fathers themselues and next also in the people Touching the Fathers and Bishops of the Church some being simple and of small capacitie and shallow iudgement as Eusebius saith receiued traditions without any searching of writings as out of bare report Such one was Papias the hearer of S. Iohn and companion of Policarp who in this simplicity broached fabulous doctrine of the Chiliast error by whom Irenaeus others which were of the like opinion were deceiued namely by pretending and reuerencing of his antiquity Euseb 3. 35. such were Tertullian and Lactantius Some were indued as Caluin instit 4. 10. 18. and P. Martir noteth Loc. com class 2. cap. 5. § 20. Zanch. de redempt lib. 1. cap. 15. fol. 366. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quadam with a certaine false and erronious zeale by being desirous to imitate the Iewish Ceremonies which they doe both confirme and iustifie out of Aug. cap. 20. de catechizand rudib and Caluin noteth that many of those Fathers were non satis considerati nimis curiosi ac cupid iquorum vt quisque posterior erat ita stulta aemulatione cum suis decessoribus certauit ne
rerum nouarum inuentione cederet Some were deceiued by Heretickes who to couer their pernicious heresies did studiously broach traditions vnder the Apostles names and authoritie so did Artemon Basilides Valentius Marcion Eusebius 5. 25. Clemens Strom. lib. 7. And thus Tertullian is noted to haue been deceiued by Montanus his Paraclet and inspiration as appeareth in his booke de veland virgin Some are noted to haue ascribed too too much vnto traditions So did Papias Clemens Origen and they cite Apocryphall booke to countenance them and commend very sory matters both of doctrine and of practise to themselues and others So did Papias Clemens and Origen and Basil and Epiphanius of which point looke Chemnitius examp parte 1. de tradition fol. 85 86 87. and what they could not sound from any true originall sundry of them did vsually ascribe to the Apostles So Hierome Epiphanius and Ambrose doe affirme Lent to bee an Apostolicall tradition So Aug. Epi. 86. makes report of such as alleadged Iames Iohn and Peter the Apostles for fasting on the Sabbath the vrging of which kinde of ground or allegation hee saith is interminabilis contentio generans lites non finiens quaestiones So the Easterne Churches did referre their obseruations of Easter to Saint Iohn and the Churches of the Westerne parts vnto Saint Peter and Saint Paul But heereof sayeth Socrates 5. 22. Sozomen 7. 19. There is no euidence in writing and therefore hee noteth them most likely to arise from custome rather then from Canon Some of the ancient Bishops gouerning at seuerall times in diuers places did commend the traditions which they liked or fancied themselues to their posterities for lawes And this is Socrates obseruation ibid. a president whereof a man may see Dist. 12. cap. 5. Ridiculum and other places see Caluin instit 4. 10. 18. quia periculum c. And their posteritie were no lesse superstitiously obsequious in obseruing then they in prescribing for Sozomen saith that in those dayes in Cities and Villages very many customes which for reuerence of those which brought them in at first or of those which succeeded the bringers in they who had beene trained vp in them did by no meanes holde lawfull or tollerable to violate which very thing fell out vnto men in this very feast of Easter lib. 7. cap 19. Some of the Fathers did bring in the Ceremonies with no superstition or opinion of merit or necessitie but with a good intention namely to stirre vp the more reuerence and admiration towards the Sacraments and to stirre vp a kind of deuotion in the minds of men which going further and further and increasing tooke strength vntill at last they turned to that manifest impiety idolatry and superstitions as wee see in that supposed Church of Rome this day Zepperus de Politia eccl lib. 1. cap. 10. fol 55. Some were deriued from the Gentiles and though sometime they were vsed yet they were afterward abolished such as the yeerely offering for the birth day Sadeel Some of the Ceremonies were brought in vpon occasion such as the signing of a mans selfe with the Crosse which was vsed on occasion of the Pagans mocking of the Christians crucified God that they might testifie vnto them that they were Christians and not ashamed of the Crosse of Christ this Martyr Loc. class 2. cap. 5. § 20. noteth out of Augustine de verbis Apostoli ser 8. which after grew to superstition So the not fasting one the Sabbath was established on occasion that the Maniches did in ioyne fasting on that day to their disciples August Epist 86. so the gloria Patri and as some suppose the threefold dipping of children in Baptisme was brought in by way of opposition to the Arians and Antitrinitarians Sozom. 6. 26. All or the very most part of these their ceremonies were significatiue as before appeares many of them in the euent were holden opperatiue such as the imposition of hands signe of the crosse anointing with oyle Tertullian de resurrectione carnis Caro vngitur vt anima consecretur Caro signatur vt anima muniatur Caro manus impositione adumbratur vt et anima spiritu illuminetur looke more in Bellarm. Tom. de Imag lib. 2. cap. 29. They were in processe of time increase of superstitions as many little streames meeting in along tract doe end in an Ocean So multiplied for number and burthen that to the more sincere and prudent Fathers the estate of the Iewes seemed more tolerable and easie then the estate of the Christians of those times Augustine Epistle 119. cap. 19. Some of them were very eager and inexorable for the obseruation of them it was accounted nefat on the Lords day to kneele in prayer Tertull. cont Marcion lib. 1. de coron mil. and who hath not heard of thē foule coile which Victor the Romish Bishop kept or at least began to keepe against the Churches of the Easterne world whom onely for not obseruing the order of the Westerne Churches hee would haue excommunicated and giuen them all vnto the Diuell at a clap which audacious and frantike attempt of that turbulent and boisterous Prelat albeit it be cogingly blanched ouer by a Sanderus visib Monarch lib 7. num 22 23 24 25 fol. 246 247 248. Sanders b Bellarm de Rom pont l. 2. c. 19. Bellarmine c Baron Annal Tom. 1. anno 198. Baronius d Genebrard Chronol lib. 3 anno Christi 206 fol. 389. Genebrard fit dawbers of so tottring a wall as if it had beene by him as by the primacy of the Romish Sea yet it is farre otherwise reported in the records of antiquity for first it is plainely said by Irenaeus that this excommunication was flat against the minds and practise of the most reuerend Fathers such as Policarp the disciple of Saint Iohn and other Romish Bishops his predecessors such as Amicetus Pius Higynus Telesphorus Xistus who in the like difference gaue not the like example neither did they hold this odds of such trifles as Irenaeus calls them a matter of that quality to breake communion but held fast the band of loue and vnity Euseb 5. 24. Socrat. 5. 22. That this censure of the man was done in excessiue heate or in a pelting chafe on his part as Socrates affirmeth 5. 22. that Irenaeus Bishop of Lions did put Victor in remembrance of his duety Eusebius 5. 24 sharpely reprooued him ibidem and bitterly inueighed against him and contested with him by letters Socrates 5. 22. that all the Easterne Bishops still kept their old by as from the Romish Sea for all the threates of Victor euen vnto the time of the Nicaene Council when all agreed without any absolution at all from Victors thunder-clappe yea that Policrates the president of the Easterne Bishops and all the rest which were very many were not moued an haire at these rattles set vp to fright them Euseb 5. 23. Where by the way wee may vnderstand two points First what
professe for what cause on what conditions on what perswasion and to what end hee communicateth and in what different reckoning he holdeth the ordinances of Christ and the traditions of men for thus all iust cause of offence is taken away Neither is a person of sound iudgement defiled when as he vseth the Ministrie of such as erre yea and obserueth also haumane Ceremonies if with all he cleerely and constantly disliketh the errors and doe neither commit in word nor deede any thing openly and impious in it selfe and repugnant to the word of God and withall professe that he esteemeth not humane traditions for the worship of God So the Prophets other Saints in the old Testament and Christ and his Apostles in the New did vse the Ministery of the Priests which many waies did corrupt the doctrine worship of God but in the mean while they themselues did nothing in it selfe idolatrous or forbidden of God but did sharply reprehend the errors of the Pharises Saduces So Paul by the obseruation of Iewish abolished Ceremonies did apply himself vnto the weake when they fled from him as from an enemie of the Law and of their countrey Customes and in this thing did not sinne Peter applied himselfe vnto the Iewes also and yet is reproued we see of Paul The cause was because Paul did adde but Peter did omit the necessary confession and doctrine of the trueth Therfore Peter gaue scandall to the weake and confirmed them that erred in their error which Paul did not Of this question saith Vrsinus I conferred heretofore at Zuricke with P. Martyr of holy memory not for mine owne scruple but for others of whom I was importuned for aduice neither was his answer different from this of mine Exercitat part 2 fol. 835 836 837 838 839. Zanch As he who with some kind of reuerence and honouring doth beare himselfe vnto the Sacraments is not to be blamed so hee committeth idolatry which adoreth and worshippeth the same Hee giueth a reason hereof because the Bread Wine of the Lords Supper are no longer common or prophane things but holy by which Christ doth communicate himselfe his grace and in that respect those elements are worthy of reuerence For as the word which is preached although it be not to beadored yet it is reuerently to be heard and handled as the word not of man but as the word of God So also the elements of the Sacraments in the act of the administration of them are worthy of some reuerence and honour as things not prophane but holy and to this purpose is that where the Apostle commaundeth the Bread to be eaten and the Wine to be drunke worthily For albeit this dignity consist properly in the mind which is indued with faith loue yet not from the purpose doe we also referre the same to externall reuerence Hence they who approach vnreuerently to the Lords Supper as to a common or profane supper were of God grieuously chastened as the Apostle teacheth 1. Cor. 11. 29 30 31. Wherefore there is no doubt but he doeth well and godly and according to the wil of God which adresseth himself to come with external reuerence as bareheaded kneeling or the like gestures and so handleth and partaketh of the Sacraments De Redempt lib. cap. 17. fol. 486. Zepperus These Ceremonies of good order or matters indifferent may be thus distinguished as that some of them may bee considered about the administration of the Sacraments others are accessaries or furtherers of good order and of honesty about externall worship For albeit the Sacraments are not to be accounted among the number of adiaphorals or things indifferent yet there is a reall and great difference betweene the Sacramentall Ceremonies themselues which at mans pleasure neither can nor ought to be altered or changed and betweene the circumstances of those Sacramentall Ceremonies which circumstances for the state of Churches may by the Christian libertie be differently appointed and obserued as for example the time of administring the Sacraments Situs vel positus corporis in vtendâ coenâ the site and position or gesture of the body in vsing the Lords Supper And the like Polit. Eccles lib. 1. cap. 11. fol. 76. Againe it is vsually obiected that if wee will so exactly and peremptorily sift all things and square them to the institution of Christ then it will follow that the Supper of the Lord shall not bee celebrated but once a yeere and that in the euening or night season and that lying along about the Table as Christ did in his institution c. He answereth thus as if there were not great difference betweene the Sacramentall Ceremonies themselues and the circumstances of the Sacramentall Ceremonies such as are the circumstances of time place site or state or position of body to which we are not bound in the New Testament but do heere reioyce in the Christian liberty according to that of Galat. 4. 10. Col. 2. 16. And as Saint Paul of the vse of the Supper of the Lord doth bring in and apply the Word Quotiescunque But the case is farre otherwise of Sacramentall Ceremonies which appertaine vnto the substance of the Sacraments Idem de Sacrament cap. 13. fol. 321. 322. Looke Sarauia contra Bezam defens cap. 25. fol. 582. 583. and Luther in Gen. 47. where hee alloweth this Ceremony of Kneeling Touching Holy-Dayes THese are of two sorts some bearing title to the memoriall of Christ our Sauiour and the parts of our redemption by him performed as namely the daies of Christ his Natiuitie Circumcision Passion Resurrection Assension and Descension of the Holy Ghost some others bearing the name and memoriall of the Virgin Mary the Apostles and other of the Saints The former sort as they are in euery reformed Church in the world that I haue heard of practised excepting in Geneua which onely obserueth the day of Christs Natiuity Caluin Epist 118. fol. 215. Argentorat or Strausbourg Caluin Epist. 128. fol. 226. as namely in the Churches of Denm Heming Syntag. in 4. leg Decal § 22. fol. 363. 364. Of Bohem. Harm Confes § 16. fol. 179. Saxony and high Germany Harm Confess § 16. Augustan fol. 186. Heluetia Harm Confess § 16. Heluet. posterior fol. 179. Item in libello de ritibus Eccles Tigur 8. fol. 1. of Basil Polan Syntagm lib. 9. cap. 35. fol. 4147. Belgick or Low-Countries as appeareth in the last letter of the Brownists vnto Iunius last letter Berne Aretius Problem loc 99. fol. 289. Fulke in Rhem. Apoc. 1. 10. fol. 854. and in Gal. 4. 10. § 5. fol. 63. So do all good and godly iudgements that I could light of excepting only Piscator in Gal. 4. 9. 10. 11. obseruat fol. 426. concurre together to approue of them so doth Bucer Script Anglican in censura fol. 493. cap. 26. Pet. Martyr loc com inter Epistolas fol. 1087. Bulling in Epist Caluin 129. fol. 227. Zanch. confess cap. 25. fol. 250. in
In Ep. dedicat de Christo seruatore contra Socinum Nihil noui attuli sed antiquam receptam doctrinam quam hoc saeculo Martinus Chemnitius Iohannes Caluinus Petrus Martyr Zacharias Vrsinus multi alij Sancti Viri ex Dei verbo clarè solide docuerunt defendi tutatus sum Idem ibid. Subijcio hunc librum iudicio sanctae orthodoxae Ecclesiae quae Augustanam Helueticam Gallicam Brittanicam Belgicam confessiones sequitur Hanc enim esse veram Ecclesiam de his dogmatis quae in hoc libro tractantur rectè sentire credo cum hác me concordiam colere profiteor To these authorities there are some things excepted which heere I will setdowne And Obiect Frist that there is not that consent in these authorities no harmony nor agreement neither in iudgement nor in practise Not in iudgement for they disagree among themselues some commend the Ceremonies others discommend them esteeming them vnprofitable inexpedient hurtfull Not in practise for the first 200. yeeres their vniforme practise was answerable to the simplicity of the ordinance of Christ and his Apostles in the parts of Gods publike worships which will appeare if ye cite the vndoubted writings of the pure Fathers and not their Apocryphals or Bastard and supposed writings Answ 1 This obiection is quite besides the question and is nothing to the point in hand and therefore might haue well beene spared The question here is not whether the Churches and Writers agree or disagree in their iudgement practise of such Ceremonies as ours are but whether in a case of depriuation a man ought to conforme to Ceremonies as euill inconuenient as ours are pretended to be rather then suffer depriuation The answer by me is affirmatiue which conclusion all the forealleaged Authors as well one as other doe vniformely hold consent and agree vpon and of this there is an vndoubted harmony For their differences let them be vrged when question is concerning any point wherein they differ To giue instance hereof suppose a question betweene Timothy and Titus whether it were fit that the Apostles should visit the Church which they had by preaching conuerted to the faith and to finde out the truth heereof they will referre themselues to the iudgement of Paul and Barnabas who conuerted them vnto the truth Timothy saith that they should doe well to visit them and alleadgeth that Paul and Barnabas did consent in that iudgement and practise as appeareth Acts 15. 26. Titus denieth it and saith there was no consent nor agreement in their iudgement nor practise For Barnabas counselled to take Iohn called Marke with him but Paul thought it not meet Heere may Timothy reply that the question betweene vs is not about the taking a long of Marke wherein they disagreed but about the visiting of the Churches wherein they were both of one minde Touching their practise of 200. yeeres that it was answerable to the simplicity of the ordinance of Christ and his Apostles I grant that it was much more pure for that space then it was euer after for as the time ran on so purity vanished and superstition grew on as in a praecipitium and desperate downefall Howbeit the mystery of iniquity began to worke euen in the Apostles times The Diuell in those dayes began to sowe his tares as the watchmen began to sleepe both of false doctrine and corrupt Ceremonies the controuersie which troubled all the Christian world was within one hundred yeeres And Anacletus Euaristus Telesphorus Anicetus Victor as also Polycarp Irenaeus which note the controuersie about Easter and others were within the 200. yeeres So were the Hereticks Valentinus Montanus Chiliastae and others who brought innumerable ceremonies Clemens Alexandrinus and Tertullian within the 210. yeere did stirre in their writing Origen about the 216. yere Cyprian about the 240. yeere In whose vndoubted and not bastard writings may be seene and hath beene alleadged the diuersity and multitude of Ceremonies which were then in vse and much more might be said touching the confirmation of this point namely that such ceremonies as were then in vse as inconuenient in vse and nature as ours were practised by them and the doctrine of suffering Depriuation for refusing to conforme vnto such Ceremonies as ours was not by any of them taught but by all of them confuted partly by their doctrine and partly by their practise Obiect These Churches and writers were strangers to our cause nor so well acquainted with the state of our Church and therefore could not so well iudge of our case Answ The persons whose iudgements are alleadged were either strangers to our Church or acquainted with the state thereof The strangers thereto were the Fathers of the Primitiue Church and the Lutheran authors Both which because they were the practisers of more and worse Ceremonies then ours can bee imagined to bee it is nothing to the point whether they were ignorant of our Church or not For they that for the Churches peace did practise and perswade the practise of Ceremonies more in number and worse for quality would much more practise and perswade the lesser and the fewer in the same case as all men know For the rest which were acquainted with the state of our Church they were either forreiners or members of our Church The forreiners were some of them inform'd of our Churches estate by such as were not partiall in the relation thereof Such as Caluin who had our Leturgy translated and sent him to peruse Beza Bullinger Gualter Zanchius Vrsinus Polanus c. Others were such as dwelling in our Church were eye-witnesses themselues of the state thereof such as Bucer in Cambridge For whose censure the common praier Booke was translated into Latine P. Martyr in Oxon. The members of our Church were no lesse worthy then the Forreiners and could not be ignorant of the state of this Church such as the Martyrs Cranmer Ridley F. and Hooper who at last conformed Exiles as Foxe Iewell Nowell Parkhust Sanders Grindall Humphry c. And the latter teachers as Deering Fulke Perkins and especially Master Cartwright who with most exact diligence did sift euery thing to the vtmost of his power that might cary any shew of the warrant of an opposition Obiect These persons which had notice of our state considered not of our grounds of Scripture and of the arguments which we alleadge they professed that they saw but if they saw our reasons and so vrged as we vrge them they would doubtlesse haue bene of other iudgement Answ They considered of all the maine reasons which are now vrged as appeareth before in the Answeres of Master Bucer and P. Martyr to the seuerall obiections of B b. Hooper Besides the members of our Church were wel acquainted with the reasons vrged against them especially the later Obiect Some of the Authors which perswade to vse the Ceremonies doe giue such allegations as ouerthrow their owne grounds and thereby we are more confirmed