Faith Religion and Sacraments instituted by Christ In which words let it bee no offence to say that hee deales as boatmen vse to doe when they looke one way row another for whatsoever he talkes of the Catholique Church you shall finde presently that hee meanes the Romish Church a meere particular one though for the credit thereof he would faine yoake it together with the Church Catholique in the same description But see his ill lucke For while he goes about to describe them both in one he failes to describe either of them as he should For if the Catholique Church doth comprehend as hee saith the multitude of all true beleeuers even from righteous Abel as Augustine speaketh to the end of the world how can this agree to the Romish Church On the other side if it comprehend no more then such as are subiect to one visible head how can the name of Catholique in right belong vnto it So this description is like a shooe that will serue neither foote If wee should grant that the Romish faith in these daies were the true faith of Christ yet could not that make their Church to bee the Catholique Church but only a part thereof and that is the most that can bee said of it though it were farre better then it is but the Pope lookes higher then so Rome scornes to be ranckt in the order of particular Churches He must be the vniversall Bishop and she the vniversall Church of the World For if that should be denied what right hath either He or Shee to claime subiection of those who haue their severall dependance vpon other Bishops Therefore to make this good and to bring all fish into St Peters net there were some well-wishers to the Romish cause who not finding how two such disparates in nature as vniversall and particular Catholique and singular might possibly be joyned together in one subiect they found a meanes at last to joyne them both together in one word and hence it comes to passe that instead of Romana fides Romana Ecclesia which was wont to bee the common language among all Christians wee must call it henceforth Romano Catholicam fidem Romana Catholicam Ecclesiam or else they will complaine that wee allow them not their full stile Thus still it falls out that Portenta rerū gignunt portenta verborum And if it were not a new and strange doctrine it never needs to coine such new and strange words And yet as if Romana Ecclesia did not speake home enough to expresse their meaning or as if it were too large a terme and they durst not trust that more then Catholica or Apostolica Bellarmine de effect sacr l. 2. c. 25. to be sure to fit the shooe to the Popes foot restraines it to nunc Romana Ecclesia I know not what the spirit of giddinesse is if this bee not or why wee should not say of these men as it was said of the Arrians Habent annuas menstruas fides Ecclesias If the ancient faith of Rome were the same with the present what meanes nunc Romana if it were not how is the present faith Catholica For that onely is so quae est omnium temporum locorum The Councells of Lateran or Trent will not be guided by the Councells of Basil or Constance And therefore Cusanus speakes plainely and saies that there is fides temporum a faith that alters with the time and that the true sense of the Scripture is that which the present Church giues Non est mirum si praxis Ecclesiae vno tempore interpretetur scripturā vno modo alio tempore alio modo nam intellectus currit cum praxi intellectus enim qui cum praxi concurrit est spiritus vivificans sequuntur ergo Scripturae Ecclesiam non è converso Epist 7. Bohem. The holy christian Catholike Church No absolute Monarchy is a visible Monarchie vnder one visible lawfull head I complained before that the Church of Rome being a meere Particular he made it all one to the Catholique Church of Christ Here I finde cause to complaine on the other side of his wrong done to the Catholique Church when he termes it a visible Monarchie vnder a visible Head which is the placing of a barre in her armes and makes her no better then the Romish or any other particular being of the younger house 1. When hee names the Church a Monarchie if he mean it in respect of Christ sole King and Monarch thereof I will not contend with him about the name or if hee meane it in regard of particular Churches we confesse that in as much as they are subiect to their severall Bishops their governement in that respect is a kinde of Monarchie though not an absolute Monarchie but such a one as is tempered with an Aristocrasie because Bishops either doe not or should not impose lawes vpon the Church but Ex communi Concilio Presbyterorum by the advice and with the consent of their Presbyterie A visible Monarchie Not visible If the Catholique Church were a naturall body and not a mysticall If it were some individuall and singular subiect and not a meere vniversall as the name of a Catholique imports Visibility might well bee an adiunct belonging vnto it Which otherwise I confesse I vnderstand not how it should and I belieue they that speake most of it vnderstand it as little if your friend haue ever seene the Catholique Church with his eye let him say whether it be Diaphanum or adiaphanum luminosum corpus or opacum bid him tell you of what colour and complexion it is And doe not thinke I iest in mouing such questions for in good earnest it must bee qualified thus for in some such sort if it be subiect to the eye of man I grant he hath seene some particular persons that belong vnto the Church and are members thereof and so haue I often but for the Church it selfe whose formality consisteth in a spirituall coniunction with Christ the head of the members themselues one with another this mysticall vnion I am sure he did never see therefore hee did never see the Church no not any particular Church to speake properly much lesse the Catholike church This is an article of faith and not an obiect of sense farre aboue the spheare of all optike learning it is an Article to bee believed not a thing to be descried by a paire of spectacles or any other prospectiue glasse if hee meane Video pro intelligo by the old Grammer rule let him and the rest speake so a Gods name and call it hereafter the intelligible Church that we may vnderstand them for then they shall begin to speake somewhat more like Protestants for otherwise while they call it the vniversall yet visible Church they interfeare at every word and speake pure non-sense The Pope not the head of the Church Vnder one lawfull visible head It had beene plaine dealing
and J will giue to thee the Keyes of the Kingdome of Heaven and whatsoever thou shalt bind vpon earth it shall bee bound also in the heavens and whatsoever thou shalt loose in earth it shall be loosed also in the Heavens Math. 16. v. 18.19 And our Saviour said Simon Simon behold Satan hath required to haue thee for to sift as wheat But I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not and thou being converted confirme thy Brothren Luk. 22. v. 31.32 Our Saviour Christ asking Peter if he loued him more then these said yea Lord thou knowest I loue thee whereupon Christ said to him twice feed my Lambes and the third time feede my Sheepe Ioh. 21. v. 15.16.17 That Saint Peter was chiefe of the Apostles and the first Bishop of Rome When all the holy Apostles are named S. Peter is the first Math. 10. vers 2. After the Apostles had visibly receiued the Holy Ghost S. Peter made the first Sermon thereof whereat 3000. persons were converted Act. 2. v. 41. With his word and power he killed Ananias and Saphira for their Sacriledge Act. 5. v. 5. Saiut Peter called the first Councell of the Apostles held at Ierusalem and first spake therein Act. 15. v. 7. Jt is affirmed by old writers and some moderne learned Protestants that S. Peter was 15. yeares Bishop of Rome and by the auncient Ecclesiasticall wryters that S. Peter and S. Paul were both of them martyred together in Rome vnder the Emperour Nero. Orig. apud Euseb Lib. 3. cap. 1. Eus Cap. 24. Lib. 2. Hist Eccliastic Tertul. de praesc c. 26. Aug. tract 123 in Ioh. Chrysost Beda in hunc locum S. Ambr. Serm. 66.68 St Maximus Statu faelix Ecclesia cui totam doctrinam Apostoli cum suo fanguine pro funderunt vbi Petrus passioni Dominicae adaequatur vbi Paulus Iohannis exitu Coronatur Tertul. de Praescrip cap. 36. That St Peters Successors Bishops of Rome haue exercised chiefe authority in the Church Militant ever since to this day After the Martyrdome of St Peter first Bishop of Rome 32. of the succeeding Bishops there were martyred for the faith of Christ Eusebius Pope Victor in the first 200. yeares excommunicated the Asian Bishops about the observation or keeping Easter day Pope Silvester 314. yeeres called the first Councell of Nice against the Arian hereste Pope Damasus 367. called the second generall Councell at Constantinople against Macedonius the heretique Pope Caelestine 414. called the third generall Councell at Ephesus against Nestorius the heretique Pope Leo 440. called the fourth generall Councell at Calcedon against the heretique Eutiches And likewise euer since to the last generall Councell of Trent the Bishops of Rome haue called them all as heresies and false Prophets did arise in the Church Jt is confessed by divers learned Protestants that the Roman Church was the true Mother Church which Christ our Saviour planted some for 300. yeares some for 400. yeares some for 600. yeares and some for 800 yeares after Christ which being true that it was once the true Church and also true that our Saviour Christ promised to bee with it to the consummation of the world and to send the spirit of Truth to abide with it for ever and that Hell gates should not preuaile against it and Christ saith Heaven and Earth shall passe but my words shall not passe How then can it be true that the Roman Church being once the true mother Church should fall so fouly from her first puritie as is by some too too boldly affirmed Jt is so necessary for every one to know and beliene the holy Catholique Church Militant that whosoever is not a sound member of that society either in act or desire cannot be saved as all those which were out of Noahs Arke were drowned And to end with a demonstration all the Patriarchall Episcopall Seas of the Apostles be extinguished and worne out many hundred yeares since by Heretiques and Jnfidels onely the Church of Rome the Seate of Saint Peter stands at this day most conspicuous according to the prayer and promise of Christ that his faith should not faile and that the gates of Hell should not prevaile against it Thus briefly is proued the beginning encreasing and continuing of the holy Christian Catholique Apostolique and Romane Church as also the promised continuall assistance of the Holy Ghost the Spirit of truth to remaine therewith alwaies to the Consummation of the World that is for ever Of which Vine all Christians that shall be saued must be vnited liuely branches and members THE ANSWERE to the Priests Motiues GOod Brother Whosoever he was that sent you these lines as motiues to make you a Romish Catholique I must needs thinke him your friend and by that name I meane to call him hereafter because I thinke hee did it out of a desire to saue your soule although I am sure he goes the wrong way to worke And if you should follow him which God forbid hee will certainly leade you into the ditch Though his proofes bee simple ones as I hope you will see by the answere yet it seemes hee thought better of them and they were the best he knew and therefore if hee faile in his purpose as I hope he shall yet you haue some cause to thanke him in that hee vsed the same arguments to perswade you wherewith hee himselfe was perswaded But for the validity of his reasons doe you judge your selfe when you haue heard vs both speake or if not let it bee tried by God and the country And who soever he was he hath placed a sentence in the foot of his discourse which for the importancie thereof deserved to bee set in a higher roome therefore I will begin with that first The true Catholique Church Jt is so necessary saith hee for every one to know and beleeue the holy Catholique Church militant that whosoever is not a sound member of that society either in act or desire cannot bee saved All this is true and there is great reason for it for if it were once agreed among Christians which were the true Church of Christ other differences in Religion would more easily be composed by the authority thereof But so long as the doubt remaines concerning the Church it selfe as in these daies that is the capitall controversie betweene Protestants Papists there is small hope of any good accord vnlesse both sides could agree vpon some third party to be vmpire Who must be such a one as is of sufficient vnderstanding to discerne where the truth resteth and withall of that indifferency in affection that he encline no way to one side more then to another For that either the Romish or reformed Church being themselues the parties litigant that they should require to be made Iudges in their own cause though some of our adver saries be not ashamed to make such a proposition yet I thinke there is no man that hath his fiue wits about him
to haue named the Pope rather then to vse such a circumlocution of words for you must not doubt but that he is that Visible head whom he meanes Now it deserues a Quare why the Church being but one body should need two Heads Why being but one Monarchy it cannot consist without two Monarchs To say that one is a visible the other an invisible the one a principall the other a ministeriall head it is all one in effect as if they told vs of two Christs a visible and an invisible perhaps in time to come the world may heare of some such matter if this doctrine goe on In reason they ought to make two Churches because the body must bee multiplied according to the multiplication of the heads we are sure that Christ now in heauen is every way as able to governe his Church by himselfe as he was while he lived vpon earth if in regard of his bodily absence they thinke it necessary that he should leaue some deputie behind him Neither doth this hang well together with some other popish Positions for by their doctrine Christ is not so ascended into heauen but that they haue his body as they say remaining still among them vpon earth and that not only in a spirituall manner but most really and carnally They haue freer recourse to Christ now by the helpe of Transubstantiation Transubstantiation then they could possibly haue with him while he conversed here in the flesh Nay they haue not so free accesse to the Pope I am sure as they haue to him with whom they may speake when they list vpon every Altar and in every Pixe And what folly is it to seeke to the foote when we may goe to the head To set vp a ministeriall head in the Church where the principall himselfe is alwaies at hand Dulciùs ex ipso fonte bibuntur aquae Besides No visible head necessary if this visible Head were such a necessary implement in the Church of God as they would make vs beleeue it seemes strange to mee why his name should be forgotten and that in those very Scriptures where the Governors and the government of the Church is purposely treated of or how was it possible for Saint Paul speaking of Apostles and Prophets and Evangelists of Pastors and teachers ordained by Christ for the perfecting of the Saints for the worke of the Ministry c. Eph. 4 11. and 1. Cor. 12.28 to forget the name of this Pastour Paramont who now takes vpon him to be Dominus fac totum and to rule the rost throughout all Christendome There is another thing that makes mee doubt much of this matter namely that whereas the Church hath still bin known by the name of a Monarchy yet the Pope among all other his titles hath not ordinarily taken vpon him the name of a Monarch till of late I know some such thing hath beene muttering a pretty while in the Schooles but it never past for currant Doctrine in the Church till within these few yeares nay it is not so farre past yet but that the Sorbonists of Paris generally the whole Church of France oppose strongly against it In like sort whereas the Church hath ever beene called the body of Christ Ephes 1.23 yet I never heard of a Pope so desperate that durst call the Church his body which yet in some sort hee might be allowed to doe if it bee lawfull for him in any sort to call himselfe the Head of the Church by the Doctrine of Relatiues Moreover I finde the maintainers of this Doctrine much puzzelled in seeking to expresse what authority it is that the Pope may challenge in right of his headship and Monarchie what power is appendant to that name whether it bee a meere spirituall power or a temporall or both or some third mixt power compounded of temporall and spirituall Difference betweene the Papists touching the temporall and the spirituall power of the Pope Here I see them at such deadly strife among themselues as I hold it no safe trusting either of them vntill I shall first finde that they trust one another better Card. Bellarmine himselfe within these few yeares knew not what to make of that matter as it appeareth by his latter writings compared with the former When he first set forth his bookes of controuersies he was of one opinion concerning this point which afterward hee changed became of another as you shall finde by his recognitions wherein hee did not mend that which was amisse as Augustine did in his Retractations but proficiens in peius like those of whom the Apostle speakes 2. Tim. 3.13 hee made that worse which was too bad before euen in the iudgement of his owne good friends In his former writings of this argument though hee had pleaded for the Papall authority Quantum honestè potuit Barclay Sixtus Quintus plus etiam quà m debuit saith William Barclay a Papist yet was Sixtus Quintus the Pope so discontented with his booke that he was once of the mind to haue damned all his writings because he did not speake home to his Holinesse contentment I meane because hee did not attribute such an vnlimited and transcendent power vnto him as that proud imperious Praelate did challenge in right of his pretended Monarchie because hee did not affirme him to haue as direct a temporall power over Kings as a spirituall over Bishops making all Kingdomes as well as all Churches subiect to his disposition See Barclay de potestate Papae in Principes christianos cap. 13. They that contract the power of the Pope within the confines of a meere Spirituall iurisdiction though they speake more modestly then other of their fellowes yet in as much as they extend this iurisdiction over the whole world which in respect of him they make to bee but as one Diocesse even this Paradox of theirs is as false as the others though not so impudent as iniurious to Christ and his Church though it be not so pragmatically dangerous to secular states and Princes Crownes for if the Spirituall Kingdome of Christ bee of no greater extent then the Popes iurisdiction it followeth that none are Christians but Papists which though some Popish Puritane in his fiery zeale will make no bones perhaps to affirme yet all of them are not so desperate and hee that speakes so in his heat must recall it againe in cold blood or else hee will leaue Christ but a poore Kingdome and a few subiects in respect of that multitude which God promised vnto him Psal 2.8 and Psal 72. v. 8.9 c. Nay how shall that Prophecy of Malachy bee verified of the Church spreading it selfe from the rising of the Sunne to the going downe thereof if there bee no more Christians in the world then there be Papists All the world knowes that the Popes Kingdome never extended it selfe so farre as that Prophecy speakes of by many degrees when it was at
friends can assure him that there is no proofe of it there so haue wee also just cause to mistrust the inferior Priests the feet when the head begins to faile and when we heare S. Hierome crying out that all heresies and commotions both Ecclesiasticall and Civill commonly came from Priests nay it seemes they justly deserue to be thus stigmatized when their owne Canons haue laid this note vpon them which saies omne malum à Sacerdotibus dist 50. quod retentum à Gregorio 13. expunxit Sixtus Quintus Jnd. expurg Belg. fol 306. Besides by this rule of blind obedience they that followed Luthers doctrine are justified against the Pope because he was their lawfull Pastor and they did no more then their duty in harkening vnto him if it be true indeede that the Laity are bound to obey the Clergy in all things touching their faith and salvation The perpetuity of Christs Church on earth That the Church increased by Preaching and Miracles at the first That it shall continue vnto the end of the world by vertue of Christs promise and the assistance of the Holy Ghost All this is vndoubted truth and I pray you aske your friend whether hee know any Protestant that doth deny it Stapleton some other of the shamelesse crew haue gone about to perswade the world that wee beleeue not the perpetuity of Christs Church for ever vpon earth but it is so shamelesse a slaunder that Bellarmine himselfe stands vpon our defence and pleads our cause against all such calumniators Notandum est saith he multos ex nostris tempus terere let your friend note it for hee is one of those multi whom it concernes dum probant absolutè Ecclesiam non posse deficere Nam Calvinus caeteri Haeretici id concedunt Bellarm lib. 3. de Eccl. milit c. 13. in initio capit And though himselfe vndertaking in the same place to set downe the Protestants opinion doe it very vntowardly yet you see what hee thinkes of those other gamesters who charge vs to hold that the Church hath at sometime decayed and consequently that Christ hath failed in his promise made vnto her Tempus terunt saith he they are all but triflers If your friend haue any such conce it of vs desire him to belieue Bellarmine and hereafter to haue a better opinion If not aske him to what purpose hee cited Isa 59.22 Math. 28.19.20 Joh. 14.16.17 Math. 18.18 Howsoever let him now know that we belieue the Catholique Church to bee Regnum quod non dissipabitur an everlasting Kingdome that shall stand when all earthly Kingdomes faile But wee doe not beleeue that this is true of every particular Church and wee know that the Romish Church is no more then a particular and therefore as subiect to mutability and corruption as any other of the same nature Secondly tell him how wee beleeue that the holy Ghost doth and ever will guide the same Catholique Church into all necessary truth but we deny first that all those things are necessary to be beleeved which Rome professeth as truths Secondly that the guidance into such truths is a grace entailed to any one succession of Bishops more then to other or that the Popes chaire hath any greater reason to presume of her infallibility then any other Patriarchicall Seas had heretofore of theirs But we must talke more of this hereafter Saint Peter not the ministeriall head of the Church That our Saviour did constitute St Peter to bee Ministeriall of his Church Well may the name of a Ministeriall head be given to Saint Peter in respect of his Apostleship and there is not one of the twelue but that in the same respect the same name belongs vnto him as they are called the twelue foundations of the holy Ierusalem Apoc. 21.14 so they may bee called 12. Ministeriall Heads of the Church vnder Christ But to appropriate these names vnto Peter alone to make him not a Ministeriall but the Ministeriall head as if the rest were no Heads at all it is such a wrong done to the other Apostles as cruell Landlords sometimes offer to their Tenants when they take away their common from them and make it their owne inclosure As for the curtesie which perhaps they thinke they doe vnto Saint Peter it is such a one as he will never giue them thankes for that blessed Saint knowes well enough that all this quarrelling about Supremacy is not for his sake but for the Popes and that his name is vsed only for a leaping stocke to helpe the other to horse Hee takes as much delight in this honourable supremacy which they would cast vpon him joyned with the disgrace of his fellow Apostles as Paul and Barnabas did when the men of Lystra would haue sacrificed vnto them Act. 14.14 Hoc erant vtique caeteri Apostoli quod fuit Petrus pari consortio praediti Honoris Potestatis Cip. de vnit Eccles And yet we doe not say that this equality betweene the Apostles was so equall but that there was ever a Prius Posterius among them as in all well-guided societies it is fit there should bee for avoiding confusion Iames and Peter and Iohn are termed Pillars by which they are vnderstood to be persons of speciall note among the rest Gal. 2.9 and like enough that Peter in regard either of his seniority in the Apostleship or the fervency of his zeale to Christ or some other speciall grace wherein hee did excell might be a more eminent pillar then any one of the other vt Plato Princeps Philosophorum sic Petrus Princeps Apostolorum Hierom. adversus Pelag. lib. 1. cap. 4. Now as that name made not other Philosophers subiect to Plato so neither doth the like giuen to Peter inferre any Iurisdiction that hee had over his fellowes or makes them any whit inferiour vnto him that way Saint Ambrose saith of Paul that he was not inferiour to Peter or to any other of the Apostles that went before onely in time in 2. Cor. 12.9 And in his booke de Incar Dom. Cap. 4. speaking of that Primacy that Peter had he calleth it Primatum Confessionis wherein Peter was preferred a primacy of confession faith he not of honour a primacy of faith but not of degree Your friend is of another minde and brings Scripture to proue a greater supremacy given vnto Peter then all this we speake of consider his proofes St Peters supremacy And I say to thee thou art Peter and vpon this rocke will I build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevaile against it and J will giue to thee the keyes of the Kingdome of Heaven and whatsoever thou shalt bind vpon earth it shall be bound also in the heavens and whatsoever thou shalt loose in earth it shall be loosed also in the heavens Math. 6. vers 18.19 Before that ever our Saviour spake these words to Peter you must vnderstand that hee had proposed a certaine question to them all
Protestants Eusebius indeed saith so in his Chronicle and withall that he sate 7. yeare before hee came to Rome at Antioch both which cannot possibly be true and is evidently contradicted by the history of the Acts and S. Pauls Epistle to the Galath as Onuph a learned Papist proueth in his Annot. vpon Platina de vit Pont. Rom. I will not enter into that discours but desire you to read what others haue written I thinke there bee few learned Papists now but thinke that Eusebius was deceiued in that point of his Chronicle or else they must thinke that Saint Luke and Saint Paul were deceiued But it is generally agreed that hee was first Bishop of Antioch before hee was Bishop of Rome Now desire your friend to giue you some reason why the prerogatiue of Peters Supremacy if there were any such thing in rerum naturâ why it should not belong vnto the Patriarch of Antioch as well as to the Pope of Rome both being his successors alike in their severall places Perhaps he will say because Peter was put to death in Rome and not in Antioch and to that purpose it is likely that he cited Tertullian statu foelix Ecclesia cui totam doctrinam Apostolicum sanguine suo profuderunt vbi Petrus passioni ' Dominicae adaequatur vbi Paulus Iohannis exitu coronatur Tert. de praescrip c. 36. For else I know not what those words doe there but if that be his meaning he might well haue spared that quotation for if S. Peters Martyrdome at Rome be a good plea for the supremacie of that Sea aboue Antioch why should not Ierusalem claime it from them both seeing Christ the Son of God and Saviour of the world was put to death there St Peters successors That S. Peters Successors Bishops of Rome haue exercised chiefe authority in the Church militant ever since to this day And how doth hee proue this 1. Because that after the Martyrdome of S. Peter 32. of the succeeding Bishops were likewise Martyred This piece of his reading in old history might serue for some vse in another place but I cannot see how it helpes to proue that Popes haue ever exercised chiefe authority in the Church to which end it is brought here in this place I am sure that Popes in these latter ages haue neither succeeded Peter in his Martyrdome nor desire to be his successors that way All the world sees they haue beene more busy in makeing of Martyrs then in suffering of Martyrdome and in that respect may better bee called the Successors of Nero Decius and Dioclesian then of S. Peter and those 32. holy Bishops that succeeded him It is certaine that by the cruelty of Popes and their Popish instruments there hath beene more Christian blood shed in the world then ever was shed by those heathen tyrants in the greatest heat of their persecuting What though the Pope succeeded in place to those 32. holy Bishops and Martyrs It is no otherwise then as corruption succeedeth generation vinegar succeedeth wine as the Turke succeedeth Iames in Ierusalem and other of the Apostles in other places Pope Victor in the 200 yeere excommunicated the Asian Bishops about the observation or keeping Easter day So they say but doe you speake this to his credit or to disgrace his person Certainely it was a foule fact that he did commit therein and so it was censured by most learned and godly Bishops of that age and namely by S. Ireneus who wrote vnto him purposely about the matter and reproved him sharpely for it as he well deserued Jreneus in Victorem per Epistolam graviter invectus est saith Socrates Eccles Hist l. 5. c. 21. And that it displeased other Christian Bishops besides Jraeneus you shall finde in Euseb l. 5. Hist Eccl. c. 23.24 The foure first gener all Councells not called by Popes Pope Silvester in the 314 yeare called the first generall councell of Nice against the Arian Heresy Baronius then is out in his reckoning of anno 325. Eusebius who liued in that time and was well acquainted with the businesse affirmeth that it was called by Constantine the Emperour l. 3. de vit Constant c. 6. and 7. And I thinke it were hard to name any auncient writer that denies it The Councell it selfe acknowledgeth so much in a Synodicall Epistle to the Church of Alexandria Aegypt Libia and Pentapolis Quoniam Dei gratiâ mandato Sanctissimi Jmperatoris Constantini qui nos ex variis civitatibus provinciis in vnum congregavit magnum sanctum Concilium Nicenum coactum est apud Socrat. l. 1. Hist Eccles c. 6. This case is so plaine that Pigh Eccles hier l. 6. c. 1. calls generall Councells Inventum Constantinum though Bellarm chid him for it l. 1. de Concil c. 13. To. 2. Pope Damascus in the 367 yeare called the second gener all Councell at Constantinople against Macedonius the Heretique As true as Silvester called the first Sozomen Hist Ecles l. 7. c. 7. saith directly that Theodosius the Emperour called it the Councell it selfe in a letter writen to him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth acknowledge that it was assembled together by vertue of a writ directed from his Imperiall Piety Pope Caelestine 414 called the third generall Councell at Ephesus against Nestorius the Heretique It seemes that Pope Caelestine himselfe was not present at this Councell But for the Councell it selfe it was called Authoritate nutu Theodosii junioris qui tum oririent ale administravit imperirium saith Evag. lib. 1. cap. 6. And Literae Jmperatoris erant ad Cyrillum ad alios omnes vbique sanctarum Ecclesiarum Praesides missae Ibid. and the Canons of the Councell in the very beginning doe testify so much Pope Leo 440 called the Fourth genera all Councell at Calcedon against the Heretique Eutiches Let the acts of the Councell speake which begin thus In civitate Calcedonensi Metropoli Provinciae Bythiniae facta est Synodus ex decreto piissimorum Imperat. Valentiniani Marciani and hee that reades the Epistles of Leo shall finde in what humble and submissiue manner hee wrote divers times to the Emperour to call a Councell not challenging any authority therein to himselfe but intreating it as a favour from his Lord the Emperour Vide Epistolam 9. ad Theodos Epist 12. Epist 23. ad Clerum Plebem Constantinop Epist 24. 26. And thus you see how the foure Popes did call the first foure generall Councels For when your friend begins to speake of the Councell of Trent he begins to draw vpon the lees And here Bellarmine who thinkes generall Councells profitable and convenient but not absolutely necessary for the Church l. 1 de concil c. 10. when he comes to the Councell of Trent he pleades for the necessity thereof vt pro aris focis as Demetrius for Diana Act. 19. Our trade is like to decay and be vndone if that be toucht Si tollamus autoritatem
praesentis Ecclesiae Concilij Tridentini then all will come to nothing de effect saor l. 2. c. 35. q. d. Though all other councells were expunged yet that may stand by it selfe and so long we shall stand One thing more by the way I would haue you take notice of in Bellarmine how when hee had first endevoured to proue that the first foure generall Councels were all called by Popes just as your friend would haue it yet presently after in the same chapter he sets downe foure reasons why the Emperor did call call those 4. Councels and not Popes alone l. 1. de Concil to cap. 13. to 2. It is confessed by divers learned Protestants that the Romane Church was the true Mother Church which Christ our Saviour planted some for 300 yeeres some for 400. yeares some for 600. yeares c. Among other particular Churches planted by the Apostles the Romane Church with the first was of speciall note and the faith of the Romans in the beginning renowned through the whole world Rom. 1.8 But what doth S. Paul say more of the Romanes in that place The Romish Church not the mother of all Christians then hee doth of the Thessalonians elsewhere Read 1. Thes v. 7.8 2. Thes 1. v. 3.4 and you shall finde as great praise if not greater given to them then to the other What would hee inferre hence Did hee ever heare any Protestant confesse because he would so faine worke somewhat out of their confession that the Romish Church when it was at the best was the Mother of all Christians Or that the holy Catholique Church which we belieue in our Creed was nothing else but the Church of Rome Or because that Church was faithfull in the Apostles daies doth it follow that it must needs continue so still Egesippus an auncient Catholique writer saith that so long as the Apostles liued Virgo pura incorrupta mansit Ecclesia c. apud Euseb Eccl. Hist l. 3. c. 29. And whereas hee talkes of 300 and 400. nay of 800. years as if we did acknowledge Rome so long to haue bin the Church of Christ tell him for his further learning that we acknowledge her for a Church still though a most degenerate and corrupted one Whose doctrine is full of Novelty and her practise as full of pride and cruelty and yet a Church in respect of some truths that shee teacheth among many falshoods as a man that is heart-sicke and ready to dye ceaseth not for all that to bee a man so we likewise thinke of divers other Christians in the world though there be many errors in their doctrine and much scandall in their liues yet so long as they hold the foundation the name of the Church is not to be denied them and if your friend thinke otherwise tell him that his faith is never the better because his charity is worse then ours The corruptions of Rome But hee will deny perhaps that there are any such corruptions as we speake of growne into the Church of Rome What then meane so many grievous complaints made by men of speciall note in that Church long before Luther was borne Bernard in â—antic â—on serm 〈◊〉 What meant Bernard to say that there was putida tabes a filthy disease that had spred it selfe throughout all the parts of the Church that Ministri Christi in his time did servire Antichristo If nothing be amisse in the Church of Rome what meant Paulus Tertius to set certaine delegate Cardinals and others a worke to giue their advice how reformation might be made Or what meant those Cardinalls to write such a booke as they did called Concilium delect Card. aliorum Praelat which if you will read as it is extant in Tom. 3. Concil edit per Crab. editionis Colon. 1551. you shall find that their Church hath both rugas maculas Concil Trident. sess 22. dâ—eret de Oâ— serb 〈◊〉 vit in cel bratione Missae as well in matter of doctrine as in manners What meant the Councell of Trent to decree that the Masse it selfe ought to be purged out of all such abuses as vel avaritia vel superstitio induxit if all were as it should be what needed such a reformation of your Breviary and Missal officium beatae virginis But that they were refertae superstitionibus and so confessed in Pij Quinti constitut super recitat offic Beat. virginis Read also his preface in Breviar Missale restitut Indeficiency of faith not promised to one particular Church Now let him answere himselfe how it may bee true that Rome was once a sound Church of Christ and yet is not so now Let him remember what Isaiah said c. 1. v. 21. How is the faithfull City become a Harlot Desire him to read that whole passage in the Prophet and he shall finde how changing of the name the words doe as well fit Rome in these daies as ever they did Ierusalem then And whereas he talkes of the promises of God it is but the same vanity that the Iewes were possessed with when they stood so much vpon Templum Domini Jer. 7. v. 4. The promises that Christ made to his Church that he would be with it to the end of the world That hee would send the spirit of truth to abide with it for ever that Hell gates shall not prevaile against it They were made to the Catholique Church and not to any particular one such as Rome is and to that Catholique Church they haue beene and ever shall bee most truly performed God will haue his Church vpon earth though Rome were as deepe buried vnder the earth as now she stands aboue it And to end with a demonstration Hee doth well to end with one for I am sure that from the beginning hitherto such Arguments haue beene geason with your friend and if this bee one Aristotle never knew what demonstrations meant in that kinde of argument the propositions ought to be evidently true and the conclusion to be drawne from the premises not by probable but by necessary consequence And here is no such matter The Patriarchall and Episcopall seates of the Apostles not extinguished That all the Patriarchall and Episcopall seates of the Apostles This is not true nay in saying so he doth vnreasonably overlash For it is well knowne to the world that there is at this day a Patriarch of Constantinople to whose Iurisdiction are subiect all the Christians of Asia minor excepting Armenia the lesse and Cilicia besides Circassia Mengrelia and Russia moreover that in Europe it selfe the Christians of Greece Macedonia Epirus Thracia Bulgaria Rascia Servia Bossina Walachia Moldavia Podolia doe acknowledge the Iurisdiction of that Patriarch and cannot endure the Bishop of Rome vnder this Patriarch there is the Metropolitan of Salonichi Thessolonica and thirtie Churches of Christians in that one Citty and no lesse then ten Suffragan Bishops subiect to his Iurisdiction besides this the Metropolitan of
Philippi hath 150. Churches vnder him Athens as many Hee of Corinth hath a hundred besides all the Ilands of the Aegean Sea Constantinople it selfe the very seat of the Turkish Empire hath aboue twenty Churches of Christians Put all these together and you shall see that Papists haue little cause to boast of their multitude or to sleight this Patriarch as if there were but few Christians subject vnto him There are likewise at this day Patriarchs though poore ones of Alexandria and Antioch and great multitudes of Christians that are subiect to each of them though nothing so many in number as were wont to bee heretofore by reason of the Turkish tyranny and oppression vnder which they are brought yet neither so few that it can bee truely said of the meanest of them as your friend ventures to affirme of them all That they bee extinguished and worne out many yeares since They be poore and suffer much affliction vnder the Turke and other Infidels and yet they may be never the worse Christians for all that True piety and godlinesse did never so much flourish in the Church as when the Church it selfe was most persecuted and afflicted by Tyrants Schola Crucis est Schola Lucis semen Ecclesiae est sanguis Martyrum and therefore they that make temporall prosperity a note to know the Catholique Church by as generally our Iesuites doe speake more like Epicures then Divines and Christians Besides your friend shewes himselfe very ignorant in the state of his owne Romish Church if he doe not know that the Pope at this day doth vsually create certaine titular Praelates Whereof one is called Patriarch of Alexandria the other of Antioch another of Ierusalem It is true that these all are but meere puppets and Idols and possesse not a foote of revenew or the least part of Iurisdiction in those places whereof they beare names yet your friend should not haue denied that there were any such Patriarchs seeing they are Creatures of the Popes owne making whose greatest vse is to gull the world vnder those names as if those foure Patriarchs did performe him obedience when indeed they bee but foure vizzards in comparison of the Patriarchs themselues Only the Church of Rome the seat of Saint Peter stands at this day Let him not stand too much vpon the standing of his Church Rome no sound Church of Christ For sure the leggs thereof are not so sound as they should bee a church may be worne out as well by diseases bred inwardly in her body as by the violence of externall persecution If Rome bee free from this latter yet a great part of the world thinkes her ill affected in her inward and vitall parts She thinkes not so her selfe no more doth many a dying man but will say he is well when he is ready to giue vp the Ghost Sacerdotium quod intus cecidit foris diu stare non potest Greg. Mor. You see the falshood of those propositions vpon which his demonstration is built see now how loosely his conclusion hangs vpon those propositions though I should grant them to be true If there be any sense at all in the connexion of the parts together this it is All the other Patriarchall Churches are fallen Onely Rome is not fallen Therefore it shall never fall Let him take his answere from S. Paul Rom. 11.17 If some of the branches be broken off and thou being a wild Oliue tree c. Now let him remember to what Church Saint Paul there writes and what they were to whom hee gaue such earnest premonition to take heed least for their infidelity God should cast them off as hee had done the Iewes in their sight This had beene a very needlesse admonition especially from the Apostle to the Romanes if he knew certainly that God had promised them such indeficiency of faith that whatsoever became of other Churches theirs should never turne Infidell Be not high minded but feare saith hee vnto them vers 20. and againe If God spared not the naturall branches the Jewes take heed least hee also spare not thee v. 21. and againe Behold the goodnesse of God towards thee if you continue in his goodnesse otherwise thou shalt be cut off v. 22. And yet your friend would make you thinke that the Romanes haue no cause to feare and that they cannot be cut off and all by vertue of an imaginary promise which hee supposeth Christ made to thē by which reckoning all Saint Pauls iffs were but Panici timoris Hee feared where no feare was and therefore might well haue spared all the breath he spent that way To conclude let mee now at the Parting giue him a demonstration out of these words of the Apostle That Church which may possibly bee cut off from Christ and fall into infidelity is not the true Catholique Church But it is possible the Romish Church may be cut off from Christ and fall into infidelity Teste Apostolo vt supra Therefore the Romish Church is not the true Catholique Church FINIS