Antichrist had beene thus universall he saith the Waldenses who appeared in the dawne of the day could not truly have beene called the first fruits unto God as he conceiveth they were pag. 2. We say so too and also firme that the visible Church could not continue under that defection because it 's said it was given to him to make warre with the Saints and to overcome them and if to overcome them they could not continue for if they had not continued then he did not overcome them and kill them with the sword as it is said hee did Rev. 13.7.10 compared with Dan. 7.21.25 Moreover it is said that those which worshipped the Beast were such whose names were not written in the Lambs booke of life therefore the visible Church could not continue under that defection But if it did not there continue yet haply it might continue under the Greekes To this he answereth that indeed the Greekes did not alwayes subject themselves to the Romane power yet were they very little short in defection in so much that according to the measure whereby the Romanists are measured they will stand and fall together well but I demand although the Church did not continue under the defection of Antichrist nor yet under the Greekes whether he doe not conceive that some man may be found able though hee cannot himselfe to make it appeare that the the visible Church hath continued elsewhere in the world Vnto this he answereth that he believeth none can be found able to make any such continuance of the Church to appeare page 3. if any could he would thanke God for such a discovery And who then can believe his exposition of Esay 9.7.59.21 c. seeing that his owne mouth testifieth that no man can be found able to make the truth thereof to appeare and therefore it must needs follow that he hath given a false interpretation of the Scriptures by him alledged to prove the perpetuity of the visible Church neither will he himselfe nor any other be able to cleare him from the imputation of a false Prophet and one that hath spoken presumptuously in the name of the Lord Deut. 18.22 therefore having thus confuted himselfe in this point I thinke it a needlesse thing for mee to spend any more time in the confutation of it But seeing hee confesseth that none can be found able to make any such continuance of a visible Church as he speaketh of to appeare why are we by him blamed for not believing such a continuance page 4. and why are we so often charged for not believing the continuance thereof under the defection of Antichrist pag. 3.4.5 and 9. And why also are we accused for making Christ a widower in not believing a perpetuall succession of the visible Church of Christ seeing he himselfe believeth no man can prove the perpetuall succession thereof What would he have us believe that which he cannot believe himselfe Herein hee is much more uncharitable then the Pope who requireth none to believe what hee and his Church believeth not If Christ must be a widower except he hath alwayes a visible Church in the world then there is no salvation out of the visible Church because none can be saved which are not first united to and made one with Christ and then what shall become of those believers which in all ages have appeared such as Ierome of Prague Iohn Hus c. who lost their lives for the testimonie of Jesus and were never members of any true visible Church I hope P. B. will not say that they perished in their sins and if they were saved then were they espoused unto and united to Christ and if so then Christ hath and so may have a Spouse although no visible Church but P.B. I conceive was so studious when he wrote his booke to bring absurdities upon us that he altogether forgot himselfe Furthermore seeing hee cannot believe that any can be found able to make the continuance of the visible Church to appeare and that as hee saith The administration of Baptisme doth so depend thereupon that by no meanes possible it can be had elsewhere without a speciall commission given from heaven for that purpose such as Iohn the Baptist had page 4. 6. I demand where or of whom P. B. received his Baptisme from the visible Church he received it not for he knoweth not where any such Church is neither doth hee believe that any man can make any such Church to appeare to have continued in the world if any could he would blesse God for such a discovery page 3. 4. Belike then hee received it from one that had a speciall commission like to that of Iohn the Baptists at least by his discourse he would have us to thinke so but I know it will appeare that it was but a Bull But being unwilling to receive this confutation from himselfe or having begun a Discourse so quickly to finish it hee proceeds and tells us that seeing he believes that none can make it appeare that the visible Church hath continued from under the defection of Antichrist then it is more then probable that it hath continued under that defection page 3. But I demand how that can be probable seeing that but a little before he told us and also proved that the defection and falling away under Antichrist was very great and marvellous universall and therefore were the Waldenses who appeared in the dawning of the day not unfitly called the first fruits unto God for they could not be the first if there had beene a continuance page 2. but he saith 2 Thes. 2.4 it is said That the Sonne of perdition who exalteth himselfe above all that is called God or that is worshipped sitteth in the Temple of God shewing himselfe that he is God and therefore the Church hath continued under the defection of Antichrist What is this but I Sir no Sir But I answer That the Temple here spoken of wherein the Man of Sinne sitteth and is worshipped cannot be taken to be the Church of God or that Temple of the living God whereof Iesus Christ is the Head Ephes. 1.22 and wherein God himselfe dwelleth and walketh 2 Cor. 6.16.17 The reason is because that in 3. verse of this Chapter it is said That the Man of Sinne is not revealed untill first there be a falling away and therefore his comming is said verses 9. 10. to be withall deceivablenesse in whom not in the Church but in them that perish who because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved therefore God sent them strong delusions that they should believe lies that all they might perish who received not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousnesse verse 9.10.11.12 Whereupon it must needs follow that that Temple or Societie wherein Antichrist sitteth and is worshipped consisteth of persons departed from the faith verse 3. who are by God justly for that cause given up to believe lies that so
Gospell to those that were without that thereby they might be brought within Act. 26.17.18 and hee acknowledgeth himselfe a debtor to all men to the unwise as well as to the wise Rom. 1.14 when he saith therefore that hee hath nothing to doe with those that are without his meaning is that he hath nothing to doe to censure and deale with them that are without for their evills of incest whoredomes thefts c. he was not by Christ made a Judge over men in those matters 1 Cor. 5.12.13 no more then Christ himselfe was Luke 12.14 From this reason of his to prove Infants to be of the Church and therefore baptised viz. because the Apostle exhorts their parents to bring them up in the nurture of the Lord c. It will follow that because the Apostle Peter exhorts believing wives to be in subjection to their husbands that so although by the word they could not yet by their good conversation they might be won 1 Pet. 3.1.2 that therefore their unbelieving husbands were of the Church and baptised or else the Apostle medled with those with whom he had nothing to doe But he saith it 's an uncomfortable doctrine to hold that children are not of the Church for if they are not borne members of the Church then they are brought forth children to the divell pag. 25. I answer that by nature we are all alike the children of wrath Ephes. 2.3 our being of the Church depending upon our new birth and generation Iohn 3.3 and if all that were not borne members of the Church shall be damned then by P. B. his judgement seeing hee cannot prove any true visible church to be in the world page 3. and therefore no children to be borne in church there shall none at all be saved Is not this doctrine of his a very comfortable doctrine for else what end doth he conceive was the preaching of the Gospell ordained Matth. 28.19 Acts 26.18 He hath yet another argument which must needs be answered for in it there is great confidence placed and it 's this the children of believers are holy and therefore may be baptised 1 Cor. 7.14 To which I answer that the Apostle doth not say that the children of believers are holy but he saith That the unbelieving wife is sanctified to the believing husband that is lawfull for his use so that he may lawfully abide with her and needs not for her unbeliefe sake put her away as was scrupled verse 10.11 12. or else if that shee were not then the children which he should beget of her were uncleane or unholy whereas being sanctified or lawfull to his use they are cleane or holy that is legitimate for the holinesse of the children here spoken of is not concluded from the faith of parent but from the lawfull use which the believing husband hath of his unbelieving wife for so are the words The unbelieving husband is sanctified by or to the believing wife and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by or to the believing husband or else were your children uncleane but now are they holy This Scripture therfore proves no more holinesse in the children of believers then in the children lawfully he gotten in the honourable estate of marriage by unbelievers Hebr. 13.4 and so by consequence yeeldeth no better warrant for the baptising of the one then it doth for the baptising of the other but I intend brevity and therefore for further answer in this point I referre him to A. R. his booke lately printed wherein the same is handled at large These are the best reasons that P. B. can shew to prove the baptisme of Infants to be according to the word of God which in regard they cannot give satisfaction to some but they still notwithstanding doe sticke at the mater as they well may and desire a precept or an example to warrant the same and therefore he promiseth to shew both page 29. but first hee desireth that wee would give him an example of an unbaptised persons his baptising of others and of the refusing of Infants from being of the Church both which being before sufficiently declared we will now take notice how he performeth his promise First he saith There are examples of baptising of housholds as the Iaylers and Lydias Acts 16. and the house of Stephanus and questionlesse divers others pag. 29. But I demand an example for the baptising of Infants and not of baptising housholds of believers such as the Iaylors Act. 16.34 and Stephanus 1 Cor. 16.16 and Crispus Acts 18.8 and questionlesse divers others This is a bad example for an example he will have it called though it be none at all to prove that the baptisme of Infants which must be thus declared housholds were baptised but in some housholds there are Infants therefore Infanâ—s have been baptised This is as plaine an example to prove the baptisme of Infants as this that followeth is to prove the baptising of notorious drunkards swearers thieves murtherers c. whole housholds have beene baptised but in some houses there are notorious drunkards swearers thieves murtherers c. therfore the Apostles baptised such and such may be baptised Who seeth not your folly Another example as plaine as this followeth The whole Church of Colosse were buried with Christ in baptisme but children were a part of the Church therefore Infants were baptised Col. 3.20.21 I answer that the whole Church of Colosse were buried with Christ in baptisme and that there were children in that Church to whom the Apostle wrote and exhorted to obey their parents in all things Col. 3.20 But our question is about Infants and not children in generall some wherof are grown to yeers of understanding as these were to whom the Apostle wrote for sure P. B. will not say he wrote to Infants which could not understand what he saith In Gen. 43.14 when Iacob sent his sonne Benjamine into Egypt he useth these words concerning him and Ioseph If I am bereaved of my children I am bereaved Now by his reason Benjamine who was about seventeene yeeres old and Ioseph who was about thirty yeeres of age should both of them be Infants because their father called them children These examples will yeeld as little satisfaction to any that question the baptising of Infants as his Reasons before answered But although these examples faile yet page 31. he saith there is a plaine command of Iesus Christ for the baptising of Infants and it appeareth thus Many nations appeare to be Abrahams and to have him for their father now all these nations in which there must needs be some children by the expresse command of Iesus Christ Mat. 28.19 are to be baptised I answer Abraham was to be a father of many nations some whereof were his naturall and carnall seed borne after the flesh as Ishmael and the Iewes who for unbeliefe were rejected and cast off with the old and carnall Covenant or Testament as was shewed before Others were so to be
A Briefe ANSWER TO A DISCOURSE Lately Written by one P. B. TO PROVE BAPTISME under the defection of Antichrist to be the Ordinance of IESUS CHRIST AND The Baptizing of Infants to be agreeable to the Word of GOD Wherein is Declared from his owne grounds that true Baptisme and a false Church are inconsistent and cannot stand together And also maintained That the Baptizing of Infants hath no authority from the Scriptures The simple beleeveth every Word but the prudent man looketh well to his goings PROV. 14.15 By R. BARROW LONDON Printed in the Yeere 1642. To the READER ALthough divers of the learned have declared the Baptisme of Infants to be but a humane tradition as P. B. confesseth in his Epistle page 3. yet notwithstanding there be many that have and doe take upon them to countenance the same by the Word of God wherein they commit a double offence one in seducing the people and leading them to disobedience against Christ Mat. 28.19 Mar 16.15 16. whom they are to heare in all things Acts 3. The other in taking the Word of Christ and putting it as a sword into the hands of men to defend and maintaine themselves in such their disobedience against him amongst whom one P. B. hath lately taken part in publishing a booke to proove the Baptisme of Infants to be agreeable to the word of God but as many times it falleth out when men undertake to defend an evill cause he hath so bewrayed the error of that doctrine that in the judgement of any who are but indifferently acquainted with the Scriptures there needs no more be said to discover the falsity thereof and sinfulnesse of his owne practice in the same things wherein unadvisedly hee accuseth others One instance J shall give thereby to cause the Reader in pursuing his discourse to take notice therin hee fighteth against himselfe and in that thing most of all whereupon his whole building standeth which is the perpetuity of the visible Church under the new Testament page 1. and so by consequent of Baptisme whereby the matter of the Church is differenced page 3.4 wherein hee maketh Baptisme to depend upon the Church whence then it must needs follow that unlesse hee can finde such a Church which hath successively continued from the first planting untill these dayes hee cannot assure himsefe that his baptisme received is the ordinance of Christ But pag. 2.3 he confesseth that he knoweth not where any such Church hath continued nor doth hee believe that any can be found that can make such a continuance of the Church to appeare therefore hee received not his Baptisme from any such Church nor is it then by his owne argument the baptisme of Christ but a counterfeit or Idoll come out of the bottomelesse pit as hee himselfe speaketh page 6. Having thus destroyed his foundation and impeached his owne baptisme and the baptisme of the Church of England derived from the Church of Rome a false state the mother of fornications c. as he affirmeth in the 3. page of his Epistle to the Reader his whole building must needs fall to the ground which thing being considered I know it may be thought that an Answer to such a Discourse should be altogether unnecessary for hee that impeacheth himselfe needs no other to accuse him yet neverthelesse hearing that some not well acquainted with the state of this controversie have by his mis-applying the Scriptures in the handling of the same been prejudiced against the truth by him evill spoken of for their sakes therefore is this briefe Answer made wherein not regarding to follow him to and fro in all his vaine wandering and tautologies wherewith his booke is stored I have reduced his whole Discourse into such particular heads as doe either concern the perpetuity of the visible Church the baptisme of the Church of Rome or the baptisme of Infants c. which hee undertaketh to prove for Answer I have made use of little save onely what I have found in his owne writing wherein indeed is sufficient to discover the vanity of his opinion in these particulars and to satisfie any that thereby have taken offence againg the truth but all that is said will appeare to thee courteous Reader in the following Answer and therefore I shall referre thee thereunto and also unto the grace and guidance of Christ our Redeemer in whose service I am alwayes thine R. BARROVV A BREIFE ANSVVER To a Discourse lately written by one P. B. c. FIrst he saith that the visible Church of Christ hath had a perpetuall continuance in the world from the first plantation thereof by Christ and the Apostles and shall so continue unto the end of the world this he saith was prophesied Esa. 9.7.59.21 witnessed Luke 1.33 Acts 5.29 and confirmed Matth. 16.18.28.20 and these Scriptures are stable and true and so to be accounted by all the Saints page 1. I answer That these Scriptures and all other being delivered by the spirit of God 2 Pet. 1.21 are stable and true and so to be accounted of all the world Acts 3.22.23 and yet are not therefore the severall glosses and understandings of men given upon these or other Scriptures alwayes stable and true nor so to be accounted of any man Before wee give credit therefore to his construction of these Scriptures wee will a little examine how he makes the truth thereof to appeare he saith that the perpetuity of the visible Church was prophesied Esay 9.7.59.21 And the Word is yea and Amen c. whereupon then it must needs follow that if the visible Church of Christ hath not had a perpetuall uninterrupted succession in the world ever since the first plantation thereof untill these dayes though this prophesie in it selfe be true yet his understanding and interpretation thereof must needs be false This rule the Lord himselfe hath given us thereby to distinguish the true Prophet from the false Deutron 18.22 hee saith when a Prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord and if the thing follow not nor come to passe that is not the thing which the Lord hath spoken but the Prophet hath spoken it presumptuously Now as hereby wee are taught to distinguish the true Prophets from the false so likewise are wee by the same rule taught to know the true interpretation of every prophesie from the false and therefore when any interpretation of any prophesie is given and accordingly the thing follow not nor come to passe that is not the thing which the Lord hath spoken in that prophesie but it 's a false interpretation and he is a false Prophet that hath given the same of whom wee are taught to beware Matth. 7.15 from which imputation we shall now see how well he acquitteth himselfe First he telleth us that the defection and falling away under Antichrist was very generall and marvellous universall and this he proveth Rev. 13.8 16. to which also he might have added the 3.4 and 7. verses and unlesse the defection under
Commission should be obtained for the raising of it up againe But that according to their example in the former instance all be done according to the first institution and ordination of Jesus Christ Mat. 28.19 If it be objected as in page 8. that the commission was given to baptised persons such as had received their baptisme from Iohn and therefore it intendeth none that are unbaptised I answer that this commission requireth all such persons who by the preaching of the Gospell either are or shall be made Disciples unto the end of the world to be baptised and Christs voyce must be obeyed in all things whatsoever he saith Act. 3.22 and that without delay as Acts. 22.16 therefore there lies a necessity upon all believers to be baptised What is now to be done in this case Baptised persons from whom they may receive the same as in a right line P. B. believeth none can be found pag. 2.3 for if none can make it appeare that the visible Church hath continued as he believeth none can then can none make it appear that there are any baptised persons to be found in the world and therfore ought cannot be had from any such how then why in the 2 Tim. 2.16 17. the Apostle telleth us that the Scripture is profitable and serveth for instruction in all righteousnesse that the man of God may be perfect and throughly furnished unto all good workes and if unto all then unto this of Baptisme whereupon therefore I confidently affirme that as at first Iohn the Baptist at the command of God baptised others though he himselfe was unbaptised even so now according to his example which amongst other things was written for our learning that we thereby might be taught what to doe in the like case of necessity Rom. 15.4 May a Disciple at the command of Jesus Christ Matth. 28.19 having made Disciples by the preaching of the Gospel baptise them for the remission of their sins Act. 2.38 If it further be objected that this example is extraordinary and therefore not exemplary I answer that every approved example though extraordinary serveth for our instruction and direction in the like extraordinary case and this is warranted by Christs owne testimony Matth. 12.3.4 where he declareth that although in ordinary cases it was unlawfull for any to eate the Shew bread save onely the Priest yet in case of necessity it was lawfull and warrantable both for David and also for souldiers to eate thereof whereby he justifieth his Disciples who in the like case of necessity were enforced to doe that which otherwise was not lawfull to be done on the Sabbath day This is our case and hereby wee justifie our practice in the point in hand and by all which it doth appeare that although baptisme were ceased in that sense wherein he speaketh yet seeing that that there is a commission already given for baptisme which by Christ himselfe is extended to the end of the world there is no need of a new commission for the raising of it up againe and therefore from that which P. B. speaketh concerning Nadab and Abihu their offering of strange fire which the Lord commanded not Lev. 10. hee might more fitly have applyed against his strange baptisme viz. the baptisme of Infants of which the Lord hath never spoken then against the baptising of believers at his command and according to his owne institution Matth. 28.19 but for want of better matter to fill up his booke he was it seemes inforced to make use of vaine words But this is not all for although it be proved that there is commission and authority for Disciples to baptise though they themselves be unbaptised in the case before declared yet there is another thing whereat P. B. is greatly offended and that is the manner in which this new baptisme as he calleth it is administred which according to the institution is by dipping the whole man in water or burying the whole man under the water Col. 2.12 Rom. 6. This although the Lord command the same Mat. 28.19 and examples both of Christ himselfe Mar. 1.9 Mat. 3.16 Iohn the Baptist Ioh. 3.23 Philip and the Eunuch Act. 8.38.39 all of them giving witnesse therunto yet he cannot believe it to be so necessary as that a person who is onely sprinkled with water should be esteemed unbaptised p. 12. But what are his Reasons that perswade him thus to judge he saith at the most sprinkling can be but a defect in the quantity of the element and it 's wonderfull that a Nullity should follow thereupon I answer that it 's wonderfull that any should esteeme that to be an ordinance of Christ which Christ hath never ordained but Christ never ordained sprinkling for his baptising but dipping Mat. 28.19 therefore sprinkling is none of Christs ordinance and so by consequence must needs be a nullity but he saith by thus urging the Text we place the substance of an ordinance in the criticknesse of a word page 13. I answer that we doe place the substance of every ordinance in it's conformity to the Word of God which alone giveth being thereunto and for any to doe otherwise it is very strange but belike he that by the word baptise will not understand to sprinkle and accept the same for Christs ordinance in baptisme which is as much as if by the word circumcise the Iewes should have understood to prick the finger should so have practised and owned the same for the ordinance of circumcision in the judgement of P.B. he is a meere Criticke and placeth the substance of an ordinance of a high nature in the criticknesse of a word as he speaketh And whereas it is said that baptisme resembleth our buriall and resurrection with Christ which sprinkling cannot import Rom 6. Col. 2.12 He answereth that sprinkling or powring water on the face doth hold forth both buriall and resurrection page 14. for those he saith that are sprinkled are under the water and buried if not so then he demandeth how they were baptised unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea when not so much as a hayre of their head was wet I answer that by this reason as they should not be dipped in baptisme so neither should they be sprinkled and yet shall they be under the water and buried neverthelesse This sure is one of the mysteries which hee speaketh of that cannot easily be perceived page 10. but seeing he thus urgeth the baptisme of the cloud and of the sea in this and divers other places desiring that it may be well minded as page 14.29.30 I desire to know whether thereby he understandeth the baptisme instituted by Jesus Christ Mat. 28.9 if he doe not then I demand why he so often urgeth the same for an example in this point if he doe then further demand why contrary thereunto in baptising his Infants as hee would have it esteemed he sprinkleth water in their faces this practice of his to sprinkle water in the face