may appeare to them that will take the paines to reade it yea I dare bee bold to say the Church of Rome had not for many hundred yeares before the Councell of Trent so good a forme of doctrine as that Catechisme containeth which I speake not to justifie the Councell or the Catechisme in any errour comprehended therein but only to shew the beggery of the aduersarie of which this shall be sufficient His disorder shewes it selfe in three things First in not setting the state of the question Secondly in misplacing his owne arguments Thirdly in idle repetitions For the first There cannot be a greater fault in a Disputant then either to leave the question altogether vnstated or else to state it amisse for by this meanes it ordinarily fals out that the contention is nothing else but Andabatarum pugna the fight at blind man buffe as we say so as a man may misse ten times before hee hit once But of the two the former is the worse wherein this our aduersary offendeth If he say he tooke it as hee found it it will not excuse For I dare say his pretended aduersaries intended not a combat if they had they would haue depriued him of the occasion of much babbling And yet had he not listed to be contentious hee might haue picked such a state of the question out of the defenders writings as might haue dâ—â—led the edge of his quarrelsome humor for the state being set aright and with perspicuity it will easily appeare to which side the truth inclineth wherefore that I offend not in that wherein I finde him to be faulty I will doe that which he hath left vnperformed First then wee are to know that the words whereof the question consisteth are full of ambiguity For both the Church of Rome and a true Church and a Church truly visible haue many senses and significations The Church of Rome hath at least eight seuerall acceptions For sometimes it noteth the particular Diocesse of the Romane territory commonly called the particular Romane Church Sometimes and most vsually it comprehendeth all the national Churches which communicate with Rome in the same faith and vnder the same head the Pope commonly called the Catholique Romane Church Sometimes the Clergy of that Church is onely vnderstood by that title commonly called the Church representatiue Sometimes the people onely commonly called the Laity and of some the popular Church of Rome Sometimes the whole body of Clergy and Laity Sometimes the Papacy or Apostacy in that Church which is S. Iohns Babylon Sometimes the Elect in that Church still communicating with the Papacy which S. Iohn calls Gods people And sometimes the hidden Church which is in the Romane Church and yet communicateth not with her abominations which some call the Church in the wildernesse Againe A Church is said to bee true diuers wayes As first materially in that it consisteth of a people comprehended within the compasse of Gods Couenant of life and saluation Secondly formally in regard of frame and constitution Thirdly accidentally in regard of soundnes and outward communion Thirdly a Church is said to be truly visible for the true markes of a Church which it hath either in regard of it selfe within it selfe in which respect the Churches in persecution are truly visible though their enemies and others which are not of their number see them not Or in regard of the world abroad whether Christians or Infidels which know her assemblies And in this latter sense againe it is said to be visible either strictly and properly when the whole Church is visible at once and all together which is onely true of particular Congregations or largely and Synechdochically when the whole cannot bee visible together and at once but by peâ—cemeale and succession and so the Catholique Church here on earth may truly be said to bee visible Thus you see how great ambiguity there is in the sense of these few words The Church of Rome is a true and truly visible Church Now in the second place to apply all this to our present purpose Although diuerse men doe set the state of this question diuersly as may best serue for their owne priuate ends and purposes yet I will take it in the largest extent and as it may bee most fauourable for the Church of Rome Thus Whether the Catholike Church of Rome as it is called in opposition to the Dioces in regard of the whole body thereof compounded of Clergy and Laity bee still within the couenant of Gods sauing grace and haue such markes of that couenant still abiding in it that though properly at once and all together it cannot bee visible yet by peece-meale and successiuely it may truly be said so to be And so much for the state of the question and his first disorder His second point of disorder is in misplacing his owne arguments which I take not as if it were done ignorantly as not knowing what hee should haue done for hee excuseth himselfe for it supposing it superfluous to doe it but artificially for his best aduantage It seemes hee trusted more to the gentlenesse of his aduersaries and to his owne abilitie in opposing them then to the strength of his owne and his power to maintaine them and so brings them in as it were by way of ambuâ—â— But howsoeuer it hath pleased him to proceed I may not passe them ouer in this place without tryall vnless I would incurre the same suspition Let vs see therefore how hee proueth the negatiue His first argument wherein he placeth his greatest confidence is briefly propounded pag. 24. but more at large pag. 90. of his Aduertisement and it lyeth thus That Church which denieth yea accurseth the sauing faith of Iesus Christ vnto Iustification allowing only such a faith which can neuer saue a man but is a gracelesse faith separable from grace and which a man may carie with him into Hell that is an Apostatized Church vtterly falne away from Christ wherein no saluation is to be found or hoped for But the Church of Rome doth all this Ergo. To which I answer by denying all I deny the proposition because it is sophisticall The assumption because it is false and I need not then doubt to deny the conclusion The proposition is sick of that Sophisme which the Logicians call secundum plures interrogationes or propositiones that is when many Propositions are ioyned together in one whereof some are true some false as here are at least three One that the Church so bablingly described is an apostatised Church another that it is vtterly fallen away from Christ a third that no saluation is to be found or hoped for therein Of which the first onely is true and the rest notoriously false and against the Scripture for first to denie yea to accurse sauing Faith to allow the contrary is not a point of totall finall Apostasie vnles it be ioyned with malice and obstinacie and be the sinne against the holy Ghost
full to Vega who denieth infallible certaintie of saluation because no man can haue infallible certainty of the truth of his baptisme for want of the like certainty of the Priests intention but on the contrary for morall and coniecturall certainty he acknowledgeth that a man may and ought to haue it of the Priests intention vnlesse hee declare his naughty minde by some outward signe and so of the truth of his baptisme and lastly of his owne saluation For which distinction see Bellarmine vbi supra § Respondeo non debere hominem These things premised his Arguments are easily answered First therefore the Assumption of the last is denied for they professe themselues able to demonstrate both seuerally and together that they are true members of the true Church because they haue sufficient certaintie of the truth of their Baptisme because they haue a like sufficient certaintie of the Priests intent on leaning secrets vnto God and so all that is builded hereon that the Church cannot demonstrate her selfe to bee a true Church falls flat to the ground which may also be said of the intention of the Bishop in ordaining Secondly how can hee proue the Assumption vnlesse he goe through all the Church of Rome from man to man and from woman to woman and examine what they can say for the truth of their Baptisme It is twenty to one but some one or other can shew a Reuelation that the Priest had an actuall intention to doe as the Church doth in baptising him Thirdly they say they can say as much to assure them of the Priests intention in their Baptisme as we which are baptised in our infancie can say to assure vs that we were baptised which is onely the Church booke and testimonie of our Parents Godfathers Godmothers and other friends which is onely humane morall coniecturall assurance and not diuine and infallible See Bellarmine vbi supra § Et Nota. So much for the fourth The last Argument pag. 32. is this That Church which wants the ordinary meanes of saluation is no true Church But the Church of Rome wants the ordinary meanes of saluation the preaching and hearing of the Gospell yea it teacheth hers to hate and abhorre it and to call it heresie Ergo. I answer they want it they want it not They hate it and they hate it not They want and hate the soundnes and puritie thereof as it is enioyed in the Reformed Churches but they neither want nor hate it as it is corrupted by their owne traditions which cannot wholly depriue it of all sauing vertue as hath been already prooued And why I pray should wee not bee content in common commiseration to beare with them in this case as we doe with those people which dwell in fenny foggy marish grounds and countries who comming into places of fresh ayre and healthy dyet doe complaine that it is not good nor wholsome because it agrees not with their more grosse constitution If another man liue by poysoned meates I will not enuie him so long as I feede on that which is sound and mans meate as wee say And so much for his Arguments Thus haue I shewed Mr. Burtons second point of disorder in misplacing his Arguments and haue as well as I can righted it and answered them The third and last followes which are his idle Repetitions and Tautologies which if they were taken out of his booke it would bee by the one halfe lesse then it is as will appeare by the answer to the particulars Now here I must craue fauor of the Christian Reader that being constrained by the misbehauiour of our aduersary to lay open his foule ouer-sights in charging the Church of Rome the Councell of Trent and Bellarmine with vntruths which hee ought not to haue done hee would not suppose me to be any whit inclining or addicted to Poperie as the manner of the world is now-a dayes No I praise God I am as farr from Popery as M. Burton himselfe is or can be But I would not haue men eyther to maintaine bad causes against the Church of Rome or to maintaine good causes with bad arguments and least of all to maintaine bad causes with worse arguments as I know too many haue done to our no little disaduantage It is an excellent point of manhood to let the enemy haue his vtmost due and not to â—eelie to ouercome him by base and cowardly meanes This I desire and haue alwayes endeoured and this is all which hitherto I haue done in this Treatise or purpose to doe hereafter And if the good Reader will be placed to beleeue mee and to grant me this reasonable motion I hope hee shall perceiue that I haue not abused either him or mine aduersary or my cause or my Lord whose cause I haue vndertaken or my selfe in vndertaking it and so I proceede BVRTON Before wee proceede to the third Viall for the fuller confirmation of what hath beene said of the estate of the church of Rome whose Sea of doctrines is all turned into mortall blood in the second viall it will bee very requisite here to discusse one question Whether the Church of Rome be eyther a true Church or a true visible Church Answer Here is a long Exordium to a short Cause of which it may truely be said Causaanceps Exordium vitiosum Such a Cause such an Exordium Such a Cup such a Couer In which containing a whole lease hee craueth fauour and attention after the manner of the Orators from three Rhetoricall arguments The qualitie of the question His owne good handling there of and The condition of his owne person The question affords him two fauourable arguments One for that it is requisite to be discussed in this place Another for that it is waightie and of great moment The necessitie of the discussion is for the fuller confirmation of that hee hath said of the Church of Rome And indeede it is very necessary that hee proue and that very substantially and soundly as hee saith in the words following That the Church of Rome is neyther a true nor a true visible Church or else all hee hath said is nor worth a rush For if it be then is not her Sea of Doctrines turned into mortall blood in this second Viall nor the Councell of Trent this Sea of mortall blood nor Chemnitius the Angell nor any thing so as hee hath said But marke here I pray his Circulation Before he proued the Church of Rome to bee no true Church because all her doctrines are mortall and now hee proues all her doctrines to be mortall because 〈◊〉 is no true Church which manner of reasoning goes for currant with him 〈◊〉 all this part of his Treatise But let that passe Now if his answers proue no better then his arguments haue done as I doubt they will not it had beene farre more requisite for him to haue left this question altogether indiscussed in this place and to haue proceeded directly to the third
Viall without any more adoe for so both hee and his followers might haue fallen into the ditch without any obseruation whereas now all the world must take notice thereof to their shame and discredit BVRTON A question of so much the greater moment by how much some by their â—o small authoritie and no lesse renowned opinion in the Church doe so sway the ballance on that side that many ill affected of the aduerse party taking the aduantage are apt to catch the word out of their mouth and to say Thy mother Church of Rome c. Answer This is the second Argument by which the Question begs him some fauouâ—â— for indeed it cannot be dâ—â—yed to be very waightie tending either to the admission or expulsion of many millions of soules eyther into or out of the Church of Christ. But both his comparatiue amplification and his Rhetoricall anticipation by the one whereof hee would breede enuy to his aduersaries not onely for oppressing the truth with their authoritie and estimation in the Church but also for giuing a perillous and vnseasonable aduantage to the Papists and popishly affected and by the other would free himselfe and his from fault I say both of these doe admit many and those very iust exceptions For first who are those some in authoritie in the Church of whom he speaketh I doubt not but hee meaneth his elect aduersaries other reuerend Fathers and Ministers of our Church who are of a contrary opinion to him But our worthy fellow and friend M. William Bedle now Rector of the Colledge and Vniuersitie of Dubline in his Letters to Waddesworth pag. 75. tels him and that in truth That this opinion is not onely fauoured of many great Scholars in England but is the common opinion of all the best Diuines of the Reformed Churches that are or haue beene in the world And it is so well known to the common Aduersaries that Brierley in his Apologie of the Romane Church Tract 1. Sect. 6. Subdivis 3. And Smith in his booke of the Author and essence of the Protestant Church and Râ—ligion Lib. 1. cap. 2. haue made whole Catalogues of them wherein you shall finde truly billed The Augustane Confession Luther Caluin Iunius Zanchius Plessaeus Bucanus Polanus Saravia Boysseul Vorstius and Martyr And of our owne King Iames Andrewes Hooker Covell Whitaker Moreton Feild Powel Reinolds White and Hall our reuerend Diocesan our ioy crowne and your meeke and sweet spirited aduersary as you truly call him pag. 52. To whom they adde by necessary consequence many more as Beza Melancthon Pappus Schusselburge Ioannes Regius Leonardus Crentremius Whitgift Lubbertus Brentius Magdeburgenses Daâ—aeus Iuel Fulk Bale Zuinglius Bucer Molinaeus Bell Mason Sadeel yea and Perkins himselfe who of all the rest seemes to be furthest off from this opinion but these they adde because they allow them the Couenant the calling of Pastors the holding of all the necessary points of the foundation and saluation it selfe which being granted the true Church cannot be denyed vnto them Loe these are the some which sway the ballance on the contrary side to you being indeed of no small authority and â—o less renownd opinion in the church And not some few in our Church of note and authority as you would insinuate Secondly who are those many ill affected and of the aduerse partie who take aduantage hereof and when did they do it you would make the world beleeue that this were a new thing occasioned by these some in authority whom you haue made your aduersaries But they are no lesse then the whole Church of Rome and that euen from our first separation from her as may appeare by the Apologies of all the reformed Churches and by Bellarmine thirteenth note of the Church de Eccles. lib. 4. cap. 16. Sect. Idem de Haereticis herein therefore you are greatly to bee blamed Thirdly what is the aduantage which they take and what is the perill thereof doubtlesse some extraordinarie thing I warrant you neuer heard of before these men gaue it in these luke-warme indifferent neutralizing dayes Thy Mother Church of Rome forsooth A perillous aduantage I promise you To acknowledge that truth in luke-warme times which was alwayes openly knowne and professed For whoeuer denyed but wee were sometimes members of that Church and with what face can it be denied of which I may well say as Saint Paul said in another case if it be perilous it is perilous to them that perish in whom the god of this world hath blinded their eyes that they should beleeue lyes because they neuer entertained the truth in loue and if to them it bee perilous let it be perilous their blood be vpon their owne heads If we testifying our loue and good opinion of them in the bowells of Christ Iesus they turne it to their owne perdition wee are not vnder bondage in this case But if any aduantage be to be taken in this respect vndoubtedly saith worthy Bedel vbi supra we haue it of them and not they of vs in that what we doe we doe it of charity but they of ignorance or malice or both BVRTON Popery hath learned to get ouer the stile againe fast enough without our helpe Answer Master Burton do we helpe Popery as it were an old dogge ouer the stile againe in acknowledging this truth No this is Non causa pro causa If this would haue helped the stile had neuer beene made that which helpeth it ouer is the iust iudgement of God for our sinnes and especially for the contempt of the sincere truth of the Gospell and not the maintaining of any truth let vs truly repent of them and I dare be bold to say in the name of God that This shall neuer helpe Popery more either now or hereafter then it hath done alwaies heretofore BVRTON Though it were true that the church of Rome were a true Church yet the countenancing or pressing of it in these times might very well be spared Answer Indeed you are the onely religious Politician of these times and know better what is to bee done in these cases then they that sit at the sterne There is no man so senslesse I suppose but he knowes that all truths are not either to be published vrged or countenanced at all times There is a time for all things saith Salomon A time to keepe silence and a time to speake But when these times are it were farre better for you and me and all priuate persons to leaue to the wisedome of our Gouernours then to prescribe any thing to them therein But now a dayes all men will be Priuy Councellors and he is a very dolt that cannot gouern the whole State Church and Kingdome far better then now it is gouerned So much for the amplification BVRTON But why then say they doe others cry downe the Church of Rome for no true Church at all 〈◊〉 Surely this was a fault if it were an vntruth For giue the deuill
reformed Churches in the world Author We acknowledge an honest ignorant Papist may be saued and we haue not so learned Christ as to deny saluation to some ignorant silly soules whose humble peaceable obedience makes them safe among any part of men that professe the foundation Christ. BVRTON This makes well for Popish ignorance when all failes This also giues liberty to any Religion so it professe the foundation Christ that therein a man may be saued Answer First here is a good beginning with a notable point of sophistrie ex compositione dividendorum for he confounds two kindes of ignorance which are as different one from another as membra diuidentia can be for better vnderstanding whereof we are to remember that there are two kindes of ignorance one negatiue another priuatiue as the Schoolemen speake The former is the ignorance of that which was neuer reuealed or not reuealed sufficiently to procure distinct knowledge The latter is the ignorance of that which a man might haue knowne distinctly if hee would These two are commonly called simple affected ignorance Simple because a man is alwaies readie to embrace the knowledge of the truth when it shall please God to reueale it Affected because a man delights in darknesse more then light that his euill deeds may not be reproued and both of these may befall the learnedest man in the world As the former did Saint Paul before his conuersion and some of the Rulers of the Iewes as Saint Peter testifieth Acts 3. 17. and as the latter did other of those Rulers who closed their eyes that they might not see Mat. 13. 15. Now of these the Author means the former onely which is protestant ignorance as well as popish and the Answerer abuseth him in vnderstanding him of the latter which indeed is true popish ignorance and no other for then a man is popishly ignorant when he pleaseth himselfe in his ignorance and is taught so to doe and not when hee is willing to know if hee had the meanes and who doubteth but there are many millions of such in the Church of Rome which are those ignorant â—illy soules of whom the Author speaketh Secondly hee changeth the state of the question for whereas the Author saith such ignorants may bee saued among any part of mankind that profess the foundation Christ that is in any Christian Church he turnes it into any Religion professing Christ which is not the question for the question is of the Church and not of the Religion and from hence he proceeds cunningly to his first question Whether any â—apist may bee saued by his religion But here let it be acknowledged that wee agree with S. Augustiue lib. 1. de Baptis contra Donatistas That the societies of all Heretiques so farre as they retaine the profession of sauing truth and the ministration of the Sacrament of Baptisme are so farre forth still conioyned with the Catholique Church of God which in and by them bringeth forth children vnto God Marke his words Ecclesia Orthodoxa saith hee non Haeresis per Christi Baptismum generat qui generantur filij Dei etiam inter Haereticos BVRTON But here two questions would be resolued First whether any Papist by his religion may be saued Answer Here hee diuideth one question into two and maketh two Authors differ in opinion which agree in one And for the first question it was neuer moued by any thing I can perceiue from his Authors The question is Whether any man liuing and dying a Papist or member of the Church of Rome may be saued and not Whether any Papist may be saued by his religion This therfore is a trick of Leigerdumaine worthie such as pretend Gods glorie in hypocrifie BVRTON For resolution The Author rankes all Papists into two sorts either learned or silly ignorants For the learned hee confesseth it is very hard for them to be saued but if ignorant more easie Answer If his Author doe as hee saith hee marres a good cause in the handling but I doubt he belies him especially if this which he hath related be all that he saith For these wordâ— doe not imply a diuision of all Papists into learned and silly ignorants but of ignorant Papists into simple and wilfull ignorants and for the wilfull he confesseth it impossible for them to be saued if they so abide whether they be learned or vnlearned but the simple whether learned or vnlearned in his opinion may be saued and so thinke I too BVRTON So then if a Papist be saued he may thanke his ignorance Answer Was there euer any man in the world which would make such an inference Saint Paul was a persecutor blasphemer and wrong doer but he obtained mercy because hee did it ignorantly in vnbeleefe So then that Saint Paul obtaine 〈◊〉 he may thanke his ignorance and vnbeleefe Apage No this is all that can bee inferred there from that such ignorance as this 〈◊〉 not ponereobiceÌ„ as the Schoolmen speake that is lay a blocke in the way to saluation as the other doth he may bee saued notwithstanding this ignorance though not for this ignorance because it excuseth à tanto though not à totp from the degree of sinne though not from all sinne BVRTON But Christ the foundation is there prosessed well but how with popish ignorance teach a man to bee saued by Christ Faith comes by 〈…〉 ting and without faith no saluation by Christ But all Papists are taught to hate and abhorre 〈◊〉 preaching of the word how then is it possible they should be saued be they neuer so humble and peaceable Men. Answer The farther the worse doth it follow vpon any thing that hath been said that Popish ignorance will teach a man to be saued by Christ when it hath bin renoâ—nced as damnable Nay wee should shew our selues ideots if wee should say simple ignorance can doe it But how then are these ignorants saued by Christ why by faith man which comes by hearing the word preached yea but they haue it not nor can haue it yea they abhorre it and are taught so to doe Fie for shame that a man so well studied in the mystery of iniquitie should be either so ignorant therein or so ill affected to affirme so grosse an vntruth Reade the Councell of Trent Sess. 5. cap. 2. 24. cap. 4. and see whether this bee true which he faith It seemes hee hath not beene beholden to any of those many Cart-loads of Homilies Sermons Postills Meditations Hiemals and Aestiualls which are so diligently preached in the Church of Rome and farre better more soundly and diligently since that Councell then before To which many of our ordinary Preachers are much beholden And I would they were not better taught there in some places then ours are doleâ—s dico in many Churches in England Wales and Ireland Indeed they are taught to hate our Preachers as heretickes and our preaching as heresie but if he say therof that they haue none at all or
vseful to ioyne vs together again in one communion The former whereof is false as hath beene shewed in the former answers The latter dependeth vpon the scandals of the Author for the better vnderstanding whereof wee are to know That the reformed Churches neuer made a full and totall separation from the Church of Rome but onely partiall from her corruptions Non tam ab ea quam ab eius erroribus discessimus saith Iewel in his Apologie which is the common voice of all euen of Perkins himselfe in his Reformed Catholike who shâ—wes in euery head of doctrine how farre wee may and must hold communion with that Church and to this and no more hath the Reuerend Author respect in this assertion Now this Calumniator would make the world beleeue that his intent is to vse a meanes by help of this distinction to ioyne vs together againe in one communion in those things wherein we are already separated which as it was far from his heart and meaning for his whole Treatise tends to the contrary so indeed it were a vaine thing for him to endeuour it by this distinction For it would be all one as if hee should say As she is a visible Church wee may communicate with her in her corruptions But as she is Babylon we may not Which is indeede the folly which hee illustrateth by his two similitudes of societie with a strumpet and the deuill Thus you see the honesty and wisedome of the man and by this you may iudge of his zeale for the glory of God Author They haue not well heeded the charitable profession of zealous Luther Nos fatemur c. We professe saith hee that vnder the Papacie there is much Christian good yea all c. I say moreouer that vnder the Papacie is true Christianitie â—â—a the very kernell of Christianity c. BVRTON Luthers speech then was true But euer distingue tempora Luther wrote that before the Councell of Trent till which the Church of Rome had not altered the rule of Faith But now wee that liue after that Councell cannot say so for in that Councell the nut was crackt the kernell reiected yea anathematized and now they haue retained no more but the broken shell of a Church Answer It is a strange thing to see how men are enamoured of their owne conceits Qui amant ipsi sibi somnia singunt saith the Poet I warrant you if M. Burton were braied in a morter yet would not these toyes depart from him Huartus in his Tryall of wits reporteth of a Noble-mans Page in Spaine that being distracted of his wits imagined himselfe to be a King in which conceit he so pleased himselfe that when hee was cured hee was displeased with the Physitian that restored him to his right minde and so I doubt M. Burton will be with those that shew him the vanities of these his imaginations Well howsoeuer it be wee must be content and suffer him to abound in his owne sense till Time the Mother of Truth reueale his grosse mistakings and in the meane while lâ—t it bee sufficient answer to this long discourse that here is nothing but idle repetition of those things which haue beene already answered And hâ—â—herto we haue answered what hee hath obiected to what was said in the Booke of The old Religion concerning this argument Author Nothing can be so well said or done but may be ill taken BVRTON Now God forbid But is it well said or done to affirme that the Church of Rome is yet a true or a true visible Church Now let the Reuerend Author iudge indifferently hauing well weighed the former reasons whether we doe ill or no in taking his saying ill or whether wee had not reason to haue expected an ingenuous Palinodie or Augustine-like Retractation rather then such an Apologie which whether it be rather to be pitied then any vncharitablenesse in the Reader in taking such a saying ill let indicious charitie it selfe iudge Nor need we stretch the saying to imply that the Church of Rome is a true beleeuing Church Suffice it we except against any being yea or visibility of a true Church in the Synagogue of Rome Answer Some men are like Nettles which if a man handle softly they sting him but if hardly and roughly they are not felt Our Reuerend Antistes hauing but glanced at the zeale of some transported to such a detestation of the Romane church as if it were all error no church is deeply censured as if preferment had changed his note and taught him to speake more plausible language of the Church of Rome then eyther hee did or ought Hereupon he frames an Apologeticall milde and Christian Aduertisement to rectifie their iudgement lest their preiudice may turne more to their sinne then to his wrong What 's the issue Nothing but scorne for sooth they expected that the Reuerend Author well weighing the former reasons would haue made a pittifull Retractation and not such an Augustine-like Apologie Nay they will not acknowledge any the least mistaking in the matter yea those words Nothing can be so well said or done but may be ill taken which are the ordinary preamble to reconciliation are taken amisse and so proue themselues to be true through their frowardnesse What then is to be done Haec non succedit alia ineunda est via The Reuerend Author must vse them like hounds which the more a man beateth the better they loue him or like the wilde Irish which are most seruiceable when they are most slauishly vsed And so they shall haue their desire a Palinodie or Retractation which is That is repenteth him that hee hath dealt so fauourably with them For as for their reasons if they were not as bold and blinde as Bayard himselfe they would be ashamed to commend them to the iudgement of iudicious Charity Author Who sees not that visible referres to outward profession true to some essential principles of Christianitie neyther of them to soundnesse of beleefe BVRTON Is outward profession a sufficient marke of visibilitie for a Church This is none of those markes which the Church of England takes notice of a Church by Answer No Are not they the preaching of the word administration of sacraments and Ecclesiasticall discipline And what outward profession of Christianitie can any visible church make without these Outward profession therefore comprehendeth them all and so is a sufficient marke of visibilitie for a Church BVRTON Againe the Scripture calls them the Synagogue of Satan which call themselues Iewes and are not Answer True yet were they true Iewes in the flesh and outwardly Rom. 2. â—8 29. and so may a true visible Church of Christians be also BVRTON The Samaritanes sometimes professed themselues to bee of the Iewes religion and professed the worship of the Lord were they therefore a visible Church Answer The reason is not like because they neuer were in the Couenant of Gods grace but were aliens from the Common wealth of Israel
BVRTON And for the essentiall principles of Christianity the Iewes at this day hold the Old Testament and if it bee said They deny Christ expressely the Papists doe so too implicitely and by their owne expresse doctrines of Trent haue no more communion with Christ then the Iewes haue Nay Papists doe expresly abiure the doctrine of Christ as wee shewed before in the Popes owne Bull. Answer The tongue that lyeth slayeth the soule Such comparisons are not onely odious but damnable If this zeale do not transport you to sinne I doubt not but euill-speakers raylers and slanderers may finde an easie passage into the kingdome of heauen Author Grant the Romanists to be but Christians how corrupt soeuer and wee cannot deny them the name of a Church BVRTON But why should we grant them that which neuer a Papist is able to demonstrate to vs or yet vndoubtedly to perswade himselfe of Answer This fond conceit is sufficiently answered already BVRTON Although for the bare name of Christians and of a Church wee will not much stand with them so they do not hereupon or any for them incroach and challenge the beeing and realitie yea or the very visibility of a true Church Answer You are very liberall of that which is none of your owne Can you bee content to afford the precious name of a Christian and of a Church of Christ to them which in mans iudgement not partially affected are not so The Iews would neuer doe it neither will the Papists doe it neither will the Reformed Churches doe it neither will any well informed Christian doe it But you will not much stand vpon it Author We are all the same Church by vertue of our outward vocation whosoeuer all the world ouer worship Iesus Christ the onely Sonne of God the Sauiour of the world and professe the same common Creed BVRTON Doth the Church of Rome worship Iesus Christ who for Christ worship the Beast and his Image bearing his mark Answer Doe all in the Church of Rome doe so what they whose names are written in the Lambs booke of life Reu. 13. 8. or are you sure that none of the Church of Rome liuing and dying professed members thereof are written therein BVRTON Doc they hold the same Creed that deny the faith without which they cannot say the first words of the Creed I beleeue in God Answer And dare you say that all and euery one in the Church of Rome doth so Author Rome doth both hold the foundation and destroy it she holds it directly destroyes it by consequent BVRTON What foundation doe they hold directly with vs wee shewed before that they haue nothing of Christ but the shell the shadow the Pope is the kernell if any Answer You said so indeed but you shewed it not yet if they haue the shell that is the outward profession of the foundation directly it is enough to make them be said to hold the foundation directly BVRTON Nay doe they hâ—ld more of Christ directly then the very society of Deuils doe yea or so much as they Answer They doe if your selfe say true for you say that To hold the foundation directly is to hold Iesus Christ so to be come in the slesh as therein to suffer and satisfie for our saluation becomming our Christ our Iesus redeeming vs from our sinnes by imputing his merits to vs that our sins might not be imputed to vs which were imputed to him by whose stripes wee are healed by whose righteousnesse imputed wee are perfectly iustified in the sight of God And all and euery point of this the Church of Rome directly holdeth BVRTON Nothing lesse yea she directly not by consequence onely directly I say shee denieth and destroyeth this foundation How and where in the Councell of Trent Sess. 6. Can. 10. Siquis dixerit homines per ipsam Christi iustitiam formaliter iustos esse Anathema sit Is not this a direct and flat expresse denyall of the foundation Answer Is this an expresse flat and direct denial of the foundatioÌ„ then Melancthon Caluin Illyricus and all sound and good Protestants doe expresly flatly and directly deny the Foundation for all of them doe and must hold this doctrine for accursed and all the Ministers of the Church of England haue cause to be ashamed of your ignorance boldnesse Mr. Burton who dare challenge the Church of Rome to denie the foundation directly in that wherein she holdeth and confirmeth the truth of the Gospel you must know therefore that in these words is condemned the damnable doctrine of Andrew Osiander and his followers who taught and held that a man is formally iustified by the very Righteousnesse by which Christ himselfe is essentially iust and righteous being partakers thereof by inhabitation This allegation therefore is a notable abuse not only of the Councel but of your selfe and the Reader See Bellarmine de Iustif. lib. 2. cap. 2. Sect. 2. His verbis though himselfe offend therein also afterwards BVRTON And in the 11th Canon If any shall say that men are iustified by the sole imputation of Christs righteousness or by sole remission of sins otherwise then by inherent righteousnesse by vs obtained thereby or also that the grace of God whereby wee are iustified is onely the fauour of God let him bee accursed What more direct deniall of the foundation Answer I might here challenge you for altering and changing the words of the Councell but I will not take all aduantages I answer therefore that it seems you know not the true meaning of the Councell for taking the word Iustification in the Councels owne sense this Canon containes very sound and Christian doctrine What then doth it mean by Iustification A compound of Protestant Iustification and Sanctification for so it defines Iustification cap. 7. of this Session in the first words Iustificatia est non sola peccatorum remissio sed sanctificatio renouatio interioris hominis per voluntariam susceptionem gratiae donorum and so the true sense and meaning of the Canon is this If any man shall say that men are so iustified by the sole imputation of Christs righteousnesse or by sole remission of sinnes that they are also sanctified thereby without inherent grace and charity or also that the grace whereby wee are so iustified is onely the fauour of God Let him bee accursed and let him be so indeed for me You will say this is nothing but meere iugling I grant it but it is not direct denyall of the foundation for here as Chemnitius acknowledgeth is both remission of sinnes and imputation of Christs righteousnesse included which though it be sufficient to iustification in the Protestant sense yet in the popish sense wherein sanctification is also required it is not sufficient BVRTON Is not this the foundation That Iesus Christ came into the world to saue sinners and how who his owne selfe bare our sinnes in his owne bodie on the tree that we being dead to sins should liue
reader in taking such a saying ill let iudicious charity it selfe iudge where may a man finde pride if here bee none yet for all this you professe many things to the contrary as first that BVRTON My heart is euen torne in sunder to see the rufull rents of the Church of God and the truth so opposed so oppressed Answer But Ieremie tells you the heart is deceitfull aboue measure and the learned say that it is not so deceitfull in any thing as in pride in so much as if it were possible to be without pride yet would it be proud that it is not proud and so euen while your heart is torne in sunder with sorrow you may be proud in exercising your selfe in things and with persons that be too high notwithstanding BVRTON And when Gods glory suffers pardon mee if I professe my selfe a poore defendent Answer What without a calling might not Vzza put forth his hand to stay the shaking of the Arke and may you doe it But wherein I pray doth Gods glorie suffer any thing in our case Is it any dishonour to God to be faithfull in keeping his couenant for euer euen with his enemies Is not this the highest point of his glorie wherein of all the rest he most glorieth O Master Burton pretend not the glorie of God against the glory of God there is nothing more easie more vsuall more dangerous BVRTON Yea my profession not onely as a Christian but much more as a Minister of the Gospel bindes me to it Answere Then let all Christendome goe together by the eares and let Ministers bee the Ring-leaders and Boutefewes BVRTON And I know that God regardeth no mans person Answer True But he will haue all men to be sure of a warrant for their doings BVRTON And as the prouerbe is Cucullus non facit Monachum Answere Neither doth the wearing of a Lions skin make a Lyon BVRTON And were it not a matter so nearly concerning the glory of God and the saluation of Mens soules I had far rather sit mee downe in safe and sweet silence wherein I should haue the more opportunitie to pray for the peace of Ierusalem then any way stand vp to contend Answere Indeede this is the thing which of all other you had most need to purge your selfe of This contentious humor which some say is predominant in you for if Salomon say true a man so qualified must needes bee presumptuous And how doe you doe it You pretend againe the glory of God But you haue heard that that may be but a colour Next the saluation of mens soules But how can that be when you damne all Papists to the Deuill Thirdly your choise of priuate retirednesse But that is questionable Lastly your deuotion But Quid verba audiam cum facta vidiam BVRTON But it is Gods quarrell and that against Babylon Answer First let that be proued then let God bee a God of order and not of confusion BVRTON Peace is beautifull indeed but there is a what peace In which regard Christ the Prince of peace said I came not to send peace into the earth but a sword As faire as peace is wee must not make an Idoll of it we must keepe Christs peace Answer God forbid else But we must know then of what spirit we are Wee haue had late experience of the too 〈◊〉 desire of many forward spirits to breake our peace and to vnsheathe the sword but I cannot be perswaded that eyther this is Christs sword oâ— that that was not Christs pâ—â—be BVRTON And in these perillous dayes it being almost as dangerous to bee ignorant of the mystery of iniquitie as of the mystery of Godlinesse let no man thinke it labour superfluous or presumptuous to search out the true mysterie of Popery Answer You say well But first you must not doe it like Skogan as well where it is not as whereâ—â— is Then you must not doe it so that you take away all the mystery thereof at one blow by denying the Romane Church to bee a true or true visible Church of Christ â—or where then is any mysterie Is there any mysterie in Iudaisme â—urcisme or Paganisme BVRTON But I say in this 〈◊〉 kinde of 〈…〉 vpon 〈◊〉 Answer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 est Necessitie with a great N. hath imposed this task vpon you and woe be to you if you do it not If you had said so much a first it had beene enough This is that I expected all this while but I hope I shall make it appeare that this Necessitie was neuer of Gods imposition And so much for your Preface Let vs now examine your sound and substantiall Answers But here I must admonish the Reader that he dealeth with three seuerall Authors with two hee contendeth very briefly and with a kinde of neglect about saluation in the Church of Rome with the third being a Reuerend Antistes of the Church of England hee findeth himselfe more to do that as I suppose because a kinde of Necessity hath imposed this taske vpon him BVRTON The first maine Argument which would conclude the Church of Rome to be a true Church is because say they a man in that Church may be saued for out of the Church no saluation Therefore the Church of Rome must be a true Church Answer These words as should seeme by the words say they are common to both the former Authors who if they haue framed their maine argument no better are worthy to be blamed vnlesse it were done popularly without suspition of opposition as it may very well bee supposed The argument is this Out of the true Church of Christ there is no saluation In the Church of Rome there is saluation Ergo The Church of Rome is not out of the true Church of Christ. BVRTON Who are they that may bee saued in the Church of Rome My Author expresseth An bonest ignorant Papist or some ignorant silly soules c. yea and this is deliuered in the name of our Church or at least of all those that being affected to the Church of Rome in some good measure would seeme to bee the Church of England Answer Whether you deale well with your Authors or no I know not for you do not seuer them so wel as you should and indeed wee shall finde in the end that you might well haue ioyned them together as one man for any disagreement that can be found between them It seemes here you haue to doe with one onely for I must goe by guesse not knowing wel what to make of your answer you seeme to deny the Assumption of the Argument by demanding who may bee saued in the Church of Rome and then bring in your author answering in the name of the Church of England and indeed taking the words you haue related in a good sense as I doubt not but the Author meant them and not as you misconstrue them they may well be deliuered not onely in the name of our Church but of all the