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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B09776	The Anabaptists meribah: or, VVaters of strife. Being a reply to a late insulting pamphlet, written by Thomas Lamb, merchant, intitulled, Truth prevailing against the fiercest opposition; or, An answer to Mr. John Goodwins Water-dipping, no firm footing for church-communion. Wherein the impertinency of M. Lamb's answer, and the validity of M. Goodwin's Water-dipping, &c. are manifested by I. Price a member of the Church of Christ, whereof the said Mr. Goodwin is pastor.	Price, J., fl. 1656.	1656 (1656)	Wing P3332A; ESTC R182056	87,699	107

you will let no man take from you this is as the wel of Bethlem for which you wil fight with the best friend you have in the world It was the saying of one concerning some over-weeners of themselves that they might have proved excellent schollars if they had not been perswaded that they were such already Themistocles listned to nothing so willingly as to his own commendations The Emperor Adrian oppressed some and slew others that exceld in any art or faculty that he might be held the only skilful And it is said of Aristotle that he burnt the books of many antient Philosophers that he might be the more admired Prov 16.5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the Lord. When a wal swels it is near breaking it is no smal art to conceal art nor is it a smal glory to conceal glory Emptie casks sound lowdest and purses with a very little money gingles more then those that are top ful They that best deserve praises do most desire concealment Moses shone and knew it not Christ had all the treasures of wisdome and knowledg in him but they were hid in him he did not fret when he was obscured The best of men were most modestlie conceited of themselves Jacob said he was lesse then the least of Gods mercies David a worm and no man Agur more brutish then any man Great Pau● the least of Saints the greatest of sinners They that think themselves rich and ful able and strong know not that they are poor and miserable and blind and naked They conceive their mole hil a mountain their kestril an eagle their goose a swan poring upon and blessing themselves in their own beauty while they gaze upon themselves as you seem to do over the banks of your baptissmal waters until they fal into the River and are drowned thereby But to proceed to your third reason of publishing your Book 3ly To let the world see that our baptisme hath not metamorphosed us Mr Lamb to his Reader from Lambs to Wolves Tygers or Serpent which is insinuated by M Goodwin in his last c. SECT IX INdeed if the world had not seen your Book Replie Mr Lamb renders himselfe in his Book a visib●e instance of what he seems to withstand and implead therein they might have suspected the due applicablenes of such an insinuation unto your self but he that shal see and read the same knowing what once you were and what that book represents you now to be if your spirit be in your writing may be astonished at the metamorphoses Have you not rendred your self as sad an instance of such an alteration and grown as great a proficient in the black art for rendring evil for good your time and all things else considered as any of that misterie of iniquitie that ever I knew Have you not with all love care and tenderness been treated withall by your antient Pastor as a sheep and lamb of Christ under him Mr Lambs ingratitude and unkindnes to Mr Goodwin as deare unto him as Jonathon to David nay as Benjamin to his old father Jacob the apple of his eye the signet on his arm Were you not unto him you above any other Member as John the Evangel●st unto Christ Jesus alwaies as it were in his bosome I had almost said his fond-ling And have not you heretofore answered at least seeminglie nay I think I may say reallie his kindness with kindness his love with love And now have you not Absolom like rallied up what strength You can against him Did you not as yesterday strive to keep the Flock of Christ whereof you were more then a commmon member Mr L. changed for the worse since his separation in a straight hand of unitie love improving your parts abilities and opportunities to keep them as close together as the scales of the Leviathan And have you not not onlie withdrawn your self but with an high hand stroven to bring off others into the same condemnation with your self endeavouring to tear up our foundations and incouraging all you had any hope to ingage a gainst us and our Church as the enemies of Jerusalem encouraged one another against it race it race it even to the ground Did not the language of your deportment to our Church pastor and people speak as Peter to Christ though all men would be offended with thee yet will not I But have You not like Orpah in the 1. of Ruth 14. not with so much as a parting salute turned Your back upon them and like the Isralites in the Wildernesse started aside like a broken bow and vvith Peter withdrawn away from us as if you never knew us Yea eagerlie and Tiger●y made at the face of your faithful pastor in the eies of all men Did ever any of the Church lift up such Hosannah● Mr Lamb once the greatest admirer now the chiefest slighter of M G spread his way with such palm branches and garments of praise and commendations before his very face and the face of the whole Church to the frequent offence both of himself and the Church as You have done And hath any one of them yea of them that have departed from us lifted him up indeed but it is unto the Crosse to be crucified in the sight of the world as Your self in this book You seem indeed with Jael in your book to speak smooth words soft and pleasing language to spread over him mantles of love and kindness but your hammer and naile are readie in your hands to strike him through the verie Temples rejoicing therby not the armies of Israelites Mr Lamb first crowns then kils Mr Goodwins reputation but of the Cananites dealing with him as Xerxes did with his stears-man crown him in the morning and cut off his head in the afternoon of the same day Or like the fickle Isralites that with great zeal fought but verie latelie for David and a little after crie out We have no part in David neither have we inheritance in the son o● Jessie every man to his tents O Israel and now all the crie is for Sheba the son af B●●ri is not here a change However you proceed vvith a verie oilie lip thus Had not the truth been dearer to me then any man Mr Lamb to his Reader I had rather choose to lose my right hand then set it to a Book that frowneth on him Mr Goodwin whose credit alwaies was and stil is right dear and pretious in my sight SECT IX YOur pen stumbles at Truth Reply and speaks of nothing more then truth without Truth being indeed more accustomed to articulate then to argue out Truth And as for that Truth that you so much pretend unto in your book we may as soon find grapes on thorns and figgs on thistles as find it there He that thinks to be led by the light that shines therein unto Dothan shal find himself at last abused by an

which you say he hath after used of such splashy Reply shallow watry thin and barren argumentation either pro or con than the writing of seven such boo●s as this is which we now implead You speak much of your findings but if you have found any such place in all his writings namely where he hath denyed that true proper and natural consequences from granted premises in the Scripture are not to be admitted as the truths of God I believe you may rejoyce in it and eat the morsells thereof your self alone having no partner with you therein in any part of the world whereof the Sun in the firmament is Overseer But this is onely to give Mr. Goodwin a running-rap but you could not reach him You procee 8. Mr. Lamb. I found the unregenerate world naturally falling in with childrens baptism which is a shrewd sign is a de●ice of her own the world loveth her own c. SECT XLVIII YOU finde the unregenerate world no more naturally falling in with childrens baptism Reply then you found it naturally falling in with the profession of Christ For they are baptized and do baptize their children in no other name nor into the profession of any other Saviour then Jesus Christ And is not this a shrewd argument that this Doctrine of the Messiah the unregenerate world so naturally falleth in withall is a device of her own the world doth love her own Your 9th particular is summ'd up in this Mr. Lamb. infant-Baptism is unlawfull because baptism being the initiating Ordinance into the Church it letteth in a sort of Members which the New-Testament knoweth not namely such as cannot worship God inspirit God now seeking onely such to worship him The whole bedy must be fitly framed together and every part must effectually work And can these things be affirmed of children SECT XLIX First you affirm that baptism is the innitiating Ordinance into the Church I suppose you mean not the Church generall but dejure it is the initrating Ordinance into particular Churches If that be your meaning Baptism not proved to be the initiating Ordinance into Church-fellowship this then is such a conclusion as you can hardly make good no not by any ifs may-bee's and why-nots gatherable from any place or places in the Holy Scriptures that is to say that baptism did make any person ipsosacto a member of any particular Church But it is proveable that many and many were baptized of whom it is impossible to prove that by baptism or any other way they were ever immembred into any particular Church And it is a difficulty too hard for you or I or any other in the world to undertake namely to prove that all and every particular member of particular Churches were ever baptized at all 2. It is true Gad seeketh such and onely such now to worship him as can worship him in spirit and in truth Iohn 4.23 that is as I conceive according to the context Now the time of reformation approacheth God will be worshipped and obeyed neither in the Iudaicall rites consisting in external performances as some among you so much contend for nor according to the Samaritans false worship who worshipped their Idol Gods together with God 2 King 17.26 27 28 29. but in a pure spirituall manner extending to the very heart such as was typified by those shaddows and the Son of God comes now to draw all men unto this way of worship from the Iudaicall from the Samaritan way This text indeed with severall others renders men uncapable of Church-worship in an acceptable manner that content themselves only with outward forms and yet leading a vitious life But what is this to the exclusion of children As for them here is the grace of the Gospell that he accepteth of little children and would not have men forbidden as you do to bring them to Christ He accepteth according to what any person hath and not according to what he hath not 3. Again God was alwayes a spirit as well as now and he did alwayes seek for such to worship him as should worship him in spirit and in truth as well as now He alwaies loved-truth in the inward parts he alwayes required of all his Sons to give him their hearts in his worship he alwayes commanded the Jews to love the Lord their God with all their hearts and minds and soul and strength Did this under the Law any way hinder that children might not be admitted members of the Iewish Church because they could not perform inward heart-worship and spirituall service did God upon their circumcision accept of them as if they did perform all those spirituall services and heart-duties untill they came to an actuall and personall capacity actually and personally to perform the same And will he not now accept of children baptized as if they did actually and personally perform those services unto him which under the Gospell he requireth untill they likewise come to an actuall and personall capacity so to do And then wil he accept or reject them as they are found faithfull or unfaithfull in these things 4. Whereas you say that the New-Testament knoweth us such member of Churches as infants c. I answer that tho I will not say or deny that the New-Testament knoweth not any infant-members of Churches yet the New Testament knoweth and hath taught others also to know that children are due subjects of Baptism And that it never knew not taught any to know where ever they were or ought to be rejected and denyed the participation thereof Our controversie is not about infant-Church-member-ship but infant-baptism Your tenth Argument for your beliefe in the business of Baptism viz. against Infant-Baptisme and for your separation Mr. Lamb. c. is taken from your observation of the righteous hand of God who causeth the sharpest and most able Adversaries to you in this point to let fall such expressions as justifie what they go about to oppose and condemn as Mr. Richard Baxter saith the aged are 1. the most fully capable subiects 2. the most excellent subiects 3. the most eminent subiects 4. of whom Scripture fully speaketh 5. the greater part of the world when Baptism was instituted who were to be partakers of it But on the contrary for infant-baptism he Mr. Baxter acknowledgeth it so dark in the Scripture that the controversie is thereby become not onely hard but so hard c. SECT L. YOU needed indeed to have written this in Capitall Letters that every one that runs may read the profundity thereof Reply The aged are the most capable subjects of Baptisme Ergo Children are no subjects thereof The aged are the most eminent subjects Ergo Children are no subjects Mr. Lambs miserable inferences from Mr. Baxters words the Scripture speaketh fully of them Ergo not at all of Children The aged were the greater part of the world that did partake of Baptisme Ergo Children were no part of the world that did partake

Christ Saints in Christ Jesus holy and beloved Mr Lambs seperation meerly because the whole Church wil not bow to his dictates faithfull Brethren and where in what Book chapter or Verse in the holy scriptures do you find the least thing that justifies your withdrawing from such persons and that because they will not cal you Father and master because they will not bow down their Judgments and consciences against their Judgments and consciences unto your Judgments and consciences being a lesser part of our Curch and society we also beleeving in our Judgments and consciences that you are in an error Have we not severall directions from the Oracles of God very expresse of a contrary nature 14 Rom 13. Him that is weak in the faith receive let not him that eateth judge him that eateth not because God hath accepted him Him that is weak viz not throughly perswaded in all things pertaining to christian liberty but judging himself bound stil to the observations of earing or not eating meats according to Moses Law receive viz. into your bosomes affectu charitatis with the affection of love receive him into your Assemblies bear with his weaknesses Bucer rejected none though differing in some opinions in whom he found aliquid Christi any thing of Christ whose weaklings are to be tendred with all sweetness Do not judg censure and despise one another in case you have grounds to believe that God hath accepted him Do not you think that God accepteth Saints holy Brethren faithful Brethren visible Saints why then do you reiect them If you say they are not visible unto you except they be baptized after your manner why then do you cal them so if you say the Apostle there viz Rem 14 speaks of things indifferent but baptisme is a known gospel command I answer if you consider the reason and ground why the Apostle would have them receive him that is weak in the Faith it is not because the matters in controversie are smal and things indifferent but because God hath accepted him if you believe in your consciences that God hath accepted him why should not you accept and receive him 2ly Though baptisme be a gospel command yet many things may be doubtful in and about baptisme which may be reckoned of as meane a nature and consideration as the eating o● meats there spoken of was as viz when how by who● upon whom or unto vvhom baptisme is to be administred if in these things there be different apprehension some saying this some that why let not him that saith this despise him that saith that let not him that saith that ●udg him that saies this for God hath accepted him Do you not think that God hath accepted us that he doth accept us that he wil accept us so long as we are found faithfull unto him in following him fully as we can see him going before us Would he accept us if vve did do what you would have us do though it should be granted it vvas his mind while we see it not nay while we think ●n our consciences we should sin and provoak him in so doing would he blesse us think you if we should condemn our selves in doing the things that we allow not Wil not he accept us doing all whatsoever we understand he hath commanded us if you being a small part of the Church wil take liberty to break away from us Mr Lambs pretended grounds for seperationare a foundation of all divisions in all the Churches of Christ being seven times mere then your selves in number in conjunction with our Pastor and several of the Officers the major part of them also because they do not come over to your opinion doth not this lay a foundation of breaking up all Churches and societies of Saints in the world For if suppose ten should be of one opinion in a Church and one hundred should be of a contrary judgment therein if those ten should judge that opinion a great truth of Christ c and the hundred judge it a meer mistake a smal matter an outward ceremonie in comparison of the great things of God shal the ten seperate and be justified therein what Church can then hold together long if you say if the thing wherein those tenn differ from the one hundred be essenti●● I to a Church without which the consciences of those ten be fully perswaded the one hundred are no church then they ought to seperate I Answer First This is not the case here for you cal us a Church in your writing nay a Church of ho●ly and beloved brethren 2ly Who shal judg touching this matter the one hundred or the ten If you say the ten must judg for themselves and be able to satisfie themselves in their own peronal walking I answer that in such a case there should be many thoughts upon thoughts and considerations upon considerations much patience wisdom sobriety These should be exercised long time before the separation be made that should be the last remedy See what the Apostle saith in such a case Phil. 3.15 16. If in any thing ye be otherwise minded God sh●● reveal ●ven this unto you Nevertheless whereto ye have already attained let us walk by the same rule let us mind the same thing if in any thing ye be otherwise minded if any among you differ from other in any particular thing there is no reason that this should cause divisions and separations For though at present ye are not yet hereafter yee may be instructed in all things needfull for you and become of one mind and in the mean while whereunto we have already attained that is 1. Wherein we have mutuall apprehension of mutuall duty let us mutually walk together comfort and edifie one another Let us walk by the same rule line or path never stepping over or out of it lest we lose all For this was one of the laws of those Grecian Races that they must not only strive and run but strive and run lawfully this I say being one of the laws of their running viz. that they were to keep themselves in a certain path line or chalked way out of which they were not to step if they did they lost the game Some say that they were bounded with swords on the one side of the path and a great deep river on the other side so that they did not onely lose the prize but exposed themselves either to ruin by the sword or by the river If they did not keep their path Se here let us walk by the same rule not running over or stepping aside seperating our selves from the common path lest we be dipt yea drown'd by the river on the one hand or destroied by the sword on the other hand It is not to be expected that our light and apprehensions in all things should be the same especiallie should be the same at all times and together God at sundry times 1 Hebr 1 that is by peece meales Somwhat

ignis fatuus and conducted into Samaria in the midst of mistakes Sands his relation mentioneth a prophane Sect not long since in Aragon who affecting in themselves a certaine angelical puritie fel suddenlie to the very counterpoint of justifiing beastilitie and yet called themselves the illuminati as if they onlie had been in the light and all the world besides in darkness The Jesuits boast that the Church is the soul of the world the Clergie of the Church and they of the Clergie Wel but the Truth is dearer unto you then any man that is your opinion then any man How apt are men to assert their own opinion for tryth Though the Pharises and the Saduces were of one faith touching their oposition against Paul while they knew not of whose Judgment he was yet when he had discovered himself to be a pharesee all the Pharise stuck unto him 23 Act. 9. Jer 14 14. How often are the brats of mens own brains a 〈◊〉 vision and divination a thing of nought a deceit of their heart insisted upon as the great Truth of God Yea urged and prosecuted with a violent opposition of the palpable and manifest truths of God The Truth is dearer unto you then any man that is your apprehensions that children must not be baptized that men believers at age onlie ought to be baptized though they were baptized in their infancie that being a nul●tie Where can we find this great Truth in all the writings of Gods Word it is inde●d a serted by your self and several others of the like authoritie But alas must we receive the writings of S. The scriptures know no such truth as Mr Lamb so magnifieth as the great truth of the gospel Dominick with the same honour and credence as those of S Paul Reading the bible said a Jesuit wil sooner make a man a Luthern-Heretick then a Roman-Catholick And at a publick Assemblie of the States of Germany one Albertus a Bishop by chance lighted upon a bible and reading therein one of the counsellors asked him what book that was I know not said he but this I know that whatsoever I reade in it is utterlie against our Religion So John Bishop of Misnia confessed that reading the holie bible he found there in a Religion much differing from that that was then established being poperie Certainlie an ingenious and impartial reader of the holie sciptures Old and new Testament shall find so many expressions importing the grace and favour of God through Jesus Christ unto children as that it wil hardlie enter into his beliefe that it should be the wil and pleasute of God that henceforth viz after Moses administrations are dead buried they must no more be numbred or reckoned among the familie of God but all cast out as illegitimate And when you handle the scriptures about this point how miserablie do you like the cammel with his feet before he drink of the clear waters lest he should see his deformitie trouble and muddifie the waters disturbing the plain sense and meaning thereof as we shall manifest when we come to examine your allegations of Scripture for your purpose But to proceed you tell us that Mr Mr Lamb to his Reader Goodwins credit alwaies was and stil is right dear and pretious in my sight SECT X. THis clause puts me in mind of what I have heard of two Philosophers Mr Labms pen stumbles at his duty but vents the contrary the one knocking at the others doore and demanding of a Maid that came to the door whether her master was within her master bid her say that he was not within and the Philosopher that was at the door heard him with which answer the man went away seemingly satisfied After a while the other Philosopher came unto his door and knocking the master of the house himself asked him what he would have I would speak with you said he I am not within said the Philosopher Not within said He why you speak to me from within With that said the Philosopher that was within thou clown wouldst thou have me believe thy maid vvhen she said thou wert not vvithin and vvilt thou not believe me my self vvhen I say I am not vvithin He vvould have him believe a most appatent untruth what ever Mr Goodwins credit was is it stil RIGHT dear and precious in your sight What means then your injurious and unchristian reflections upon Him What the same fountain send forth both sweet and bitter Waters It is said of the Jesuits as of false phisicians Officiosè occidunt they kiss and kil familiarlie Squire being sent out of Spanie to muther Queen Elizabath was taught to anoint the pummel of her saddle with poyson and to cry aloud in the hearing of the people when he clap it there on with his hand God save the Queen But as Christ said to Him that betraid Him with a kiss friend for so thou vvouldst be esteemed by a kiss wherefore art thou come as friend or as a foe if a friend vvhat mean these svvords if a foe vvhat means this kiss so say I to you is Mr Goodwins credit stil right dear and pretious in your sight what means then your Edwardizing H●m your gangreninizing Him your six-book-sellerring him your unhandsome and capricious handling him from place to place His Credit seems to be as right dear and precious in your sight when you wrote that book as the honour of Iesus Christ was unto them that Crown'd him indeed but with a Crown of Thoms put a Reed into his hand instead of a Scepter did bow the knee unto him with Haile King of the Iews Just as King Richard the second who when he was to be deposed was brought forth in Royall Array whereof he was presently despoyled But you justifie your present adversariness against Mr. Goodwin because it is for the Truths sake and bring in Paul reproving and that sharply too his beloved Brother Peter for his dissembling 2 Gal. 11. But is the case like this Can you with the authority of Paul charge Mr. Goodwin with the dissembling of Peter Or are you perswaded in your conscience that Mr. Goodwin argues against his conscience Paul charged Peter to his face for his unmeet contemporizing with the Iews and Gentiles to please both against his conscience Therefore Mr. Lamb may charge Mr. Goodwin in print before the face of the whole world because he will not contemporize with him and those of his judgement and comply with the Church to please them also Peter was justly reproveable by Paul for sinning against the rationall ducture of his Light therefore Mr. Goodwin is justly reproveable by Mr. Lamb because he will not sin against the guidance of his Light Is not here strange texting it After this rate of reasoning are the rest of the Scriptures quoted by you insomuch as he thar reads you seriously and knew the School of your spirituall instruction in the things of the scriptures might wel say