I know not In the next place for your putting into my mouth to feed you with untruths I call you and all the world to witnesse against me and to make it to appear to me what untruth I ever fed you withall even here in this also I thank my God I can say with the Apostle 2 Cor. 2. 17. We are not as many which corrupt the Word of God but as of sincerity but as of God in the fight of God have we spoken in Christ And as he 4. Chap. 2. We have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty not walking in craftinesse nor handling the Word of God deceitfully but by manifestation of the truth commending our selves to every mans conscience in the sight of God Lastly for your putting into my mouth which you here again speak of I here again answer you I need no other witnesse against you then your selves I here ask you again Where or when any of you did put any thing into my mouth though my mouth hath been open to and for your souls in preaching the Gospel of consolation to you Though I have sown unto you spirituall things yet when or where have I ever reaped any of your temporals Certainly therefore if you have not put on a whores forehead you cannot be ashamed of this your so false and groundlesse a reproach which you so often here cast upon me In the last place whereas you charge me with imbracing and hugging in my bosome open prophane ones I desire you to let me know who are those open prophane ones whom I do now so imbrace and own I beleeve l must set this by amongst the rest Paper In the next part of your sixth branch you say If we were Ministers of Christ we durst not give the childrens bread to dogs much lesse presse others to sin to partake with such A. I wonder that you do not set the saddle upon the right horse as the Proverb is either shew us plainly who does so or else confesse to your shame that you let fly at all at randome and speak more out of malice then knowledge And surely such tongues want bridles I dare challenge you to make it good against any of us where ever you have known any of us to give the childrens bread to those whom we have known to be dogs or where ever we have prest any to sin or to partake with those whom we or they have known to be dogs surely this too will prove to be another of the same with your former slanders Paper In your 7th branch you say 't is your desire that wolves may be brought to light that you may know them and avoid them but we fear some that would be thought true Apostles will prove false and so must and ought to be avoided as the most desperate enemies to the truth and to the professors thereof Ans In all this we joyn with you and never fear it I will warrant you that some who now appear to you to be true Apostles and are now transformed into the Ministers of the Gospel and Ministers of See 2 Cor. 10. 13 15. righteousnesse and spirituall men when their vizor is pluckt off will be seen in their colours God hath promised it and God will perform it that their folly and their madnesse shall be made known unto all men and they shall proceed no farther See 2 Tim. 3. 9. Paper Here again you say some are afraid to come to light and therefore have gained Orders from Authoritie that none must question what they say in publick and be sure they will never meet in private so they will avoid all occasion of being questioned Therefore let all the wise in heart judge who are afraid of light Ans I answer That we are so far from avoiding the light that we creep not into houses we preach not what we deliver in corners and Conventicles but in publick Congregations And that there hath been any order gained from Authority that none should question what we say in publick is false who gain'd that Order that was put out by Authoritie I know not but if I do not mis-understand it it onely prohibits that disorder which for all your large libertie afterward mentioned in your Paper you would scarce admit of in your private meetings viz that in the midst of your exercise you should be disturbed and call'd out upon to answer every question which every piece of ignorance in the company or congregation should propose but the exercise once ended as our doors as well as yours are open to all comers so if any man hath any thing to speak he may speak without fear of being question'd by the Magistrate And as you say you have often heard your Teachers desire so I say for my own part I desired it my self in publick but the last time save one that I pâ—eached to you so have others before me there that if any man hath any thing to say against what we deliver they should stand forth and freely speak onely desiring as you say that they should speak in order in love for edification and one by one or that you would come to us before we went out of your Town to be resolved which none of you did though intreated in a Christian-like way to do it but when we were gone from you and as you thought out of the hearing of it then with most black and dishonest mouthes and tongues full of lying and bitternesse have gone from place to place and traduced us and our doctrine let the Lord judge and let your own consciences speak whether this be not so and if it be truth we say with you let the wise in heart judge who are afraid of light Paper For your 8th branch wherein you say you dislike our Babylonish confusion in making no difference twixt the Church and the world but jumbling them together contrary to the minde of God in Scriptures and the clear practice of Christ and his Apostles Ans In a part of this Answer before I have shewed you what difference there is twixt the Church and the world in shewing you according to the minde of God in Scriptures and the clear minde of Christ and his Apostles what doth constitute a true visible Church and if you would have had a larger Answer to this silly objection and dislike you should have shew'd us wherein our jumbling them together doth appear and I doubt not but we should have given satisfaction at least a reasonable answer though perhaps that would not have satisfied you Paper Your ninth dislike is this That we cry out against and accuse persons as overthrowers of publick Ordinances and neither declare the persons who nor the manner how Ans Did not our Saviour Christ tell the disciples when they were together that one of them should betray him yet he did not tell them presently which nor the manner how he did not tell them that 't was Judas by name however when they
unto fables 2 Tim. 4. 3 4. And if ever those words of the Apostles were fulfilled 't is in these times upon which the Lord hath cast us And certainly there was never any fable a more arrand device of man then some part of that Ministery of yours so much gloried in for sincere correspondence to the Primitive Institution Pap. In your sixth place you say you dislike not our zeal in Preaching against errors heresies and Hereticks Ans Truly we thank you for nothing 't is a wonder almost do you not indeed dislike it 't is well there is something that comes not under the penaltie of your dislike hut if you do not dislike it I marvell why you above others do so wince at it surely this argues that there is some gawled place Where i st you tell us something in the next place Paper You say we take not a Gospel-way to convince and to reprove them as first to prove them such 2ly by the same rule to reprove them and then cast them out if you are a Church of Christ which if you are we wonder at your disorder c. Ans We thank you for your instructions and teaching us how to reprove and convince heresies and hereticks And I desire to let you know that we have known and do know and have sufficiently proved and reproved some of your errors and shall if God permit do more in that way hereafter but for our casting them out in the first place you save us that labour for you separate your selves and besides if you did not the Church is at present so rob'd of her power that Ochim Zim and Jim Owles and Satyres all the devils in hell are broke loose amongst us and may have a quiet habitation amongst us and we are at present stript of all power but that of our prayers and the immediate power of Almighty God to cast them out You need not me thinks wonder so much at our disorder seeing we live in an age wherein all order and government in Church is counted Popery and Antichristianity and persecution of tender consciences For our disorders I shall say as Paul to his Galathians I would to God they were even cut off that trouble our order but they shall in their due time receive their reward and bear their judgement whosoever they be Gal. 5. 10. 1â— But I cannot but take notice of your supposition if we be a Church which if you are we wonder at your disorder It seems you conclude us to be no Church because of some disorders what is it come to an if with you truly you have made haste to run thus far alreadie what are we no Church To satisfie you in this let me ask you do you know what makes and constitutes a true visible Church It appears you do not and therefore I will tell you According to the Scriptures and the joynt consent of all Protestant Churches in the world the sincere preaching of the Word and the due administration of the Sacraments constitutes or makes a true visible Church Again do you know what is a true particular visible Church It is a particular company of men professing the Christian faith known by the two marks above-mentioned viz the sincere preaching of the Word and the due administration of the Sacraments Now I tell you and if you have any thing to say in denyall of it I shall make it good to you that by Gods mercy we have the true use of the Word and Sacraments and all other essentiall gifts and graces of God to make us a Church and though at present by reason of many such disorderly fellows as your selves and by reason of the want of some helps in execution of that power and authoritie which Christ hath invested our Church withall there may be many disorders amongst us and we are annoy'd with many practicall evils but yet so long as the Gospel is it self amongst us so long as the aire of that is clear so long as we directly and inviolably hold the foundation I tell you that though every rayler may tearm us no Church and every Ignoramus may doubt whether we be a Church or no yet there is no Seperatist shall be able to prove us no Church If you can do it I desire to hear what you can say against us and I promise you if you can prove us no Church and prove your selves to be one I will be your disciple and I will acknowledge that you have received more new and miraculous light then all the * Dr. Featly Dipper dipt Russet Rabbies and Mechanick Enthusiasts that ever I yet heard or read of For surely though some of the Masters of your new way have bitterly inveighed against the Hierarchy and tyrannie of some of our Prelates yet the same tongues and pens have both justified our Church and extold it many have indeed opposed some of our Appendances and circumstances which we dislike with them but they have acknowledged and defended our substance And many of our late most rigorous Fathers have not more disliked our Episcopall Government then imbraced our Church we are but little beholding to your charitie who seem to question our true visibilitie of a Church and the world cannot but laugh at it and we cannot but pitie your ignorance that you for some corruptions and disorders amongst us should hold us to be no Church and so separate from us Again are we no Church pray then tell me what are you can you be so impudent as to deny this that some of you have been begotten again by the word of our Ministery will not your own consciences convince you lay your hands upon your hearts what saith conscience to â—his Have you not I say some of you acknowledged doth not conscience yet acknowledge that as Paul said to his Corinthians 1 Cor. 3. 10. according to the grace of God which hath been given to us some of us have layed the foundation of Christ in your souls though now another buildeth thereon as the Apostle said I am sure of this Other foundation â—an no man lay then that is layed which is Jesus Christ Now let every man â—ake heed how he buildeth thereon he that builds upon this foundation wood hay stubble this work will not abide but shall be burnt and he â—hall suffer losse and though himself be saved yet it will be so as by fire Again what saith Conscience to this have not many of you acknowledged that since your new birth you have suckt much consolation and strength from the breasts of our Church have not many of you been nourisht and grow'd thereby and are we now doubted to be a Church what 's the matter is the food changed is there any alteration in that or have you a sick mans pallate that can rellish no wholsome savourie food Surely surely it is not because there is no savour in the food but because of the distemper of the pallate The Lord help you to see
mistake and your mistakes are very foule ones such that every understanding man cannot but wonder at that they should come from such men as you who pretend so to light But it appeares plainly that the new light which hath lately shune about you t is as that extraordinary light that did shine about Saul at his conversion if I may make such a comparison it hath struck you quite blinde at present and the light that is in you appears to be darknes and how great must that darknes be as our Saviour saith Matth. 6. 23. The Lord in mercy to your Souls hasten the time wherein the Scales may fall from your eyes I shall indeavour to pluck off some of them at present Paper We have you say our call from the Bishops and they from the Pope and this if you mistake not is our call to the Ministry Ans First in that you say our Bishops are from the Pope do you meane in their Names or Functions These are both from Scripture from the Apostle See 1. Tim. 1. 3. If any man desire the Office of a Bishop he desires a good work Againe 20. Acts 18. Take heed to your selves and to all the flock over which the holy Ghost hath made you Bishops so the word is in the originall Or 2ly do you meane that they are Popish in their opinion and religion if some have been so you cannot condemne them all for that no your ignorance and your malice would then shame you to all the world for the contrary hath been witnessed by the blood of many famous Martyrs eminent in the Prelacy which in fresh Records you shall reade hath been shed for God against the Harlot of Rome and by the excellent labours of Bp. Hall Apolog against Brownists others and those late Bishops of this Church whose learned Pens have puld downe more of the Walls of Rome then all the Corner-Creeping Brownists and Separatists will be able to do while the World stands Or 3ly Do you meane that they are from the Pope in their Superintendency superiority and Lordlines if in any thing it must be in this Now to this I answer That we received our Ordination from them as they were Bishops and Elders of the Church not as they were Lords and if they were Lords for their externall dignity yet they were not Lords of of our faith and if we looked upon them in any thing of their Superiority it was as they were our Elders and Fathers not our Masters Farther yet I shall desire you to take notice that in the making any man a true Minister of the Gospell there are some things required which are essentiall to the Ministery without which a man is not a true Gospell Minister Againe there are some other things which are but circumstantiall or Accidentall which a man may have or may not have and yet be a true Gospell Minister Now if I may make it appeare to you that we have all the Essentiall requisites of Gospell Ministers I hope you may be convinct that we are Ministers and Ministers of the Gospell how opprobriously soever you censure our calling or else you must make the contrary appear to us Now then if God hath made us able to teach if he hath inclined our hearts to the office of the Ministry and hath made us desirous to teach if he hath separated us for this cause to the worke if our People have had a lawfull Election if we have been admitted upon due tryall both of Ministers and People if we have been ordained by imposition of the hands of the Eldership and prayer if I say we have had all these things which appeares to all the World and yet be no true Ministers pray let me know from you what is further required to the substance of a Gospell Ministry If we have all this and yet have our calling from the Pope let me know I say from you what is a Gospell calling and if this be not according to the will of Christ and his Apostles in the Scriptures but Popish shew me what is A little farther yet in this point if God upon this call hath commited a charge to us if he hath followed our Ministry with power and blest our labours with gracious successe if I say God hath done this for us and by us with what face dare you challenge our Ministry as Popish and Antichristian I am sure you cannot but grant the Ministry in generall to be the ouâ—ward means by which God gives grace and increases inward grace Now then that Ministry by which God hath given grace increast it that ministry is of Gods appointment now whether God hath not given grace and increast it by our Ministry some of your owne hearts and consciences if ever you had grace which you will be loath to deny shall be our witnesses I am able to make it good to some of you and that by your own confessions that God hath followed our Ministery with power and blest our labours with gracious successe even in some of your hearts whose tongues are now so busie to call in question and to deny the truth of our Calling Lastly If Episcopall Ordination be a Popish and Antichristian rite as you say t is I desire to learne from you what was the Christian for me or manner of admitting men into holy places for 1500. yeers after the Apostles time can you shew me any other Ordination that was heard of at least approved of for the space of 1500 yeers during which time it there were no lawfull Calling there were no Pastors feeding and governing the flocks and if no lawfull Pastors then no visible Churches Now pray tell me if they were not a true Church in those severall Centuries and ages while they lived under Bishops where had Christ a visible Church upon earth since the Apostles times Certainly if the Calling of their Pastors and Teachers were not at least for substance sufficient though perhaps not perfect Christ never had any in his Church since the Apostles left the earth And having thus given you an account of ours I pray tell me seriously seeing you have separated from ours as abominable as you speak afterward in your Paper whence is that office of the Ministery which you now follow I dare say not from Christ nor his Apostles nor their successors what Church ever in the world can be produced unlesse in case of extremitie for one turn whose conspiring multitudes made themselves Ministers at their pleasure what â—ule of Christ prescribes it what reformed Church ever did or doth practice it what example warrants it where or when have the inferiors layed hands on their superiors what Congregation in Christendome affords you a pattern The Apostle indeed tels us that the time should come when men should not indure sound doctrine but after their own lusts should heap to themselves teachers having itching ears And they shall turn away their ears from the truth and shall be turned
your condition there is no disease more dangerous then those which rob the party of his senses and every one will tell you that t is a sad signe of death when he that is desperately sick will tell you that he is well and feels nothing I beseech you remember from whence you are fallen in â—oofing your first love even out of the Church already whither will the next fall be I tremble to think of it if God give you not grace to repent and to do your first works therefore let me presse upon you St. Peters counsell 1 Pet. 2. 1 2 3. Laying aside all malice and all guil and hypocrisies and envies and evil speakings As new born babes desire the sincere milk of the Word that you may grow thereby If so be that ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious Once more If you look upon us as questioning whether we be a Church or no and separate from us as no Church let me ask you one question more Have you renounc'd your Baptisme if you renounce our Church you must lay down that or else you are still of our Church for that was the ordinance by which you have been all admitted and initiated into our Church Now I say if that be not renounc'd you are yet members of our Church which yet you say is no Church and so by consequence you must either be members of a Church which is no Church and if so consider and tremble to think of your condition for whiles you are out of the Church you are such as Paul said his Ephesians were before their Calling Ephes 2. 12. Without Christ aliens from the common-wealth of Israel strangers from the covenants of promise having no hope and without God in the world Now if it be not thus with you what new Church are you members of I hope you are able at these yeers to give an account of your faith and you would have us to look upon you as beleevers have ye then been dipt lately or hath the weather been too cold I beleeve all the arguments of your new Pastor have scarce as yet prevailed with you for this what signe or seal have you then of your being admitted into a new Church That which makes me doubt of this and ask the question is because I see you still retain your old names taken in your Baptisme in our now forsaken Church you subscribe your selves Thomas and William and Giles and John and Roger c. do you not look upon these names too as received in that Antichristian ordinance and so away with them as rags of Antichrist and such superstitious things as not to be retained any longer Paper In your next place under your sixth branch you complain how the poore despised forsaken godly people of the Land have not worldly powers to side with but against them and persecution hath been raised by those worldly and secular powers against the godly to death and banishment witnesse the late indeavours and desires of the Presbyterian Ministers Ans In this I must note two or three things First if you mean your selves and such as you are by the poore godly people of the Land surely you will no more complain I hope of being despised and forsaken and persecuted by worldly powers you are yet alive and you need not fear banishment or persecution to death for you have now gotten the worldly secular powers as you call them to be with you and not against you Now if you make the syding of the worldly powers against a people to be alwayes a mark of the godly people of the Land what then are you at this time with whom the present powers of this part of the world in which you live do syde 2ly I cannot but smile at or rather pitie your ignorance here again you say you are persecuted by the secular powers of the world witnesse the indeavours of the Presbyterian Ministers wherein you say plainly that the indeavours of the Presbyterian Ministers are the indeavours of the secular powers of the world how grosse and absurd is this ignorance learn for shame to distinguish better against next time lest the world hisse at you Paper 3ly You say the secular powers raise persecution against the godly to death and banishment witnesse the indeavours of the Presbyterian Ministers Ans Here again you plainly say that the Presbyterian Ministers raise persecution against the godly We may here justly say with David we live among men that are set on fire even the sons of men whose treth are spears and arrows and their tongue a sharp sword Psal 57. 4. and 59. 7. Behold they belch with their mouth swords are in their lips But we doubt not but our God will deliver us as he said from the reproach of them that would swallow us up Again I cannot conceive what your meaning should be except it were the late testimonies of the Presbyteriall Ministers to the Solemne League and Covenant and to the Truths of Jesus Christ against Errors Heresies and Blasphemies your meaning can be nothing but this Now if you call this an indeavour to persecute the godly of the Land you must necessarily conclude those that hold errors heresies and blasphemies to be the godly of the Land and if that be your opinion 't is most abominable to all those that know any thing of God or of truth And I tell you farther that the banishing or putting to death those who after conviction persist in heresies and blasphemies is no more then the written Word of God allows and commands if you be not gotten alreadie above the Word and so lay that by neither can it be called persecution no more then the hanging of a thief robber or murtherer by the Laws of the Land can be said to be persecution when the just and deserved punishment of their wickednesse is inflicted Paper Again you go on in your sixth exception and say 't is no new thing for worldly wise and seeming godly men to persecute the Saints and power of godlinesse and the very same thing is practised in our age and that if men were acquainted with the working of the mystery of Iniquitie they would never be such slaves to time-serving self-seeking men who onely seeks their gain from their quarters and those that will not put into their mouthes they will raise war against them and this you positively say doth evidently appear in me in my slighting and reproaching those whom I formerly rejoyced in but now are accounted by me Sectaries and troublers of the State though I have nothing against you but the case of Daniel concerning the Law of your God and will not now beleeve as I beleeve and put into my mouth to feed you with untruths and therefore I now dis-own you and on the contrary own imbrace and hugg in my bosome those openly wicked and prophane which formerly I profest my self a stranger to Ans Friends wast in cold blood were you in your right sences
this and yet of no Religion if you have apostatized from this I would fain know what new religion you have found out what God ye acknowledge and after what way and in what manner ye do worship you tell me something in the following part of this branch of your Paper that after that way which we call heresie you so worship the God of your fathers you have been lately taught to say this in a Sermon of your new Pastors I see you can remember the text But I tell you and will make it good to you that if you worship the God of your fathers after that way which we call heresie your worship is incense in the devils nostrils and an abomination to the Lord. And this I doubt not but you will be convinc'd of anon when I come to shew you what way 't is that we call heresie Pray be so charitable for the time to come as to think that we are of some religion though it may be not of yours Paper You say in the next place that we are a hodg-podge made up of all like the Turks Alcoran of Heathenisme in permitting meer Atheists and prophane ones to be members of our Church and partakers of our Seals in worship of Jewish Tithes and oblations of Popish ordination and ceremonies of Episcopall pomp pride and avarice c. Ans What can you leave off so soon is this all have ye no more 't is wonder but let 's see what all this out-cry is for First we are a meer hodge-podge I would that you who pretend so to excell in Saint-ship and the Spirit would but once discover and manifest thus much that ye had learn'd common civility and how to give some civill language In what are we an hodge-podge you say we admit of heathens and prophane ones to be members of our Church and partakers of the Seals of our worship Truly no other Heathens nor prophane ones then such as you your selves are I know of no Atheists nor Heathens that have been admitted members as Atheists and Heathens to any of our Churches or any Church in Christendome it may be that some of you that charge us with this have been travellers and so may lye by authoritie according to the Proverb pray tell me let 's be informed by you a little where or in what particular Church of ours have any Atheists or Heathens been admitted members or to either of the Seals are any admitted to the first or second Seal but such as are born within the line of the Church of Christian parents professing faith in Christ Jesus are any but such admitted by us to the first Seal or any but such to the second Now will you make those that are born within the line of the visible Church and that do professe faith in Christ Jesus to be Heathens and Atheists what Brownisticall Anabaptisticall tenets are these wil not all the world that hears of this hisse at your madnes your simplicitie and non-sence and your witlesse groundlesse uncharitable charging and censuring of us Again where can you shew any meerly prophane ones who continuing openly such without profession of godly sorrow and desires of coming to the Lord Jesus for forgivenesse and for increase of grace that they might be inabled to lead a more holy life for the time to come that have been admitted by us to the Lords Supper This is as very a slander as all the rest and if they do desire to come in this way I would fain know of you where is your warrant and authoritie from Scripture to deny them To satisfie you further in this I long to see where your rule or your command is from Christ to require satisfaction by convincing Arguments of the true grace of every Church-member I am confident of it that if that were strictly stood upon by your new Pastor he would have but a thin Church I am afraid were an honest and sufficient impartiall understandâ—ng Châ—istian to be Judge of this the greatest part of the Ten Subscribers would be found tardy in this and so not fit to be members what ever you lay claim to What ever your new guide pretends to he must stretch his tender conscience in dispencing with and in taking many upon charitable suppositions in this point or else his quarters would quickly grow as cold and as thin at Cirencester as they have been at other places and so he must again turn Traveller and an Itinerary Again I see you do not know poore men and therefore I would have you to go to your spirituall and gifted man to teach you what is the nature of a visible Church and lest he should be ignorant of it I will give you a hint or two of it The visible Church it is such a body whose members are never all gracious if you will beleeve the Scripture it is not like the Church invisible the Church of the Elect but it is an Heterogeneous body do you understand that word I 'le help you the parts of it are very dissimular some chaff some corn some wheat some tares a net of fishes good and bad an house wherein are vessels of honour and dishonour a fold of sheep and goats a tree of green and withered branches a table of guests some with some without a wedding garment In a word every visible Church is a society wherein many are called and few are chosen Except therefore you will alter the nature of all true visible Churches whereof the Scripture speaks we must grant and so must you that in every visible Church there are some members which have not true grace If you have any thing to say to this let me hear your Arguments and I shall answer you Paper Your next grounds upon which you say we are of no religion are because we receive Jewish Tithes and Oblations because of Popish ordination and ceremonies Episcopall pomp pride and avarice Ans For matter of Tithes you give me large occasion by and by after and therefore I will refer that till I come to it there Though your Paper be full of Tautologies to stuffe up your invective I shall shovell up as much of your filth as I can together into order in my Answer For Popish ordination if therefore Popish because by Bishops I have likewise formerly said enough alreadie to satisfie reasonable men though perhaps not you and therefore I shall say no more of that here neither For Popish Ceremonies we renounce them and are as far as the precisest Anabaptist of you all from tollerating them either in our selves or others where we may in a lawfull way hinder and remove them For our Episcopall pomp pride and avarice which you say is in us I tell you again you will be judging till you are judged if you leave not the sooner The Lord forgive you Paper To passe by much of your rubbish the next thing you give me occasion to take notice of is your zeal against evill in opinion and
yet heard or read of or have spoken with I doubt not but to make it appear to you that these are onely the fancies and devices of Phanaticall Enthusiasts and not to be deduced from Scriptures who because they be dissolute would have no bonds of Laws because they are Schismaticks would have no discipline in the Church and because they walk inordinately they would have no coercive power of the Magistrate to restrain them This is onely the spirit of those Schismaticall Teachers who under a pretence of spirituall freedome will lead you into all carnall libertie prophanenesse sacriledge and faction And have they nor you nothing else to prove Magistracie to be Antichristian and to have no footsteps in the Gospel but Rev. 13. 7. 15. 16. Poore men did not I tell you but now what miserable Expositors and applyers and wresters of Scripture you were to your own destruction will you see how ridiculous you are in this place and how simply and sinfully you abuse Scripture The text alledged plainly shews that power was given to Antichrist to wage warre with the Saints and by his Armies to overcome them and this you bring to prove that the Sword of Justice in the hand of the Civill Magistrate under the Gospel is Antichristian oh miserable ignorance and impudence he that thus teacheth you to understand and apply Scriptures is a blinde leader of the blinde and if the Lord open not your eyes the sooner you will both fall into the ditch Again you urge Revel 12. 11. where the text saith that the Saints overcame Satan by the blood of the Lambe and the word of their testimony and this you bring to prove that the Power of the Magistrate under the Gospel in restraining and punishing errors and maintaining truth is an indirect and an Antichristian way may not he that hath but half an eye see how grosly absurd you are in these things The plain meaning of the place is no more then this That by the death and sufferings of Jesus Christ the Lambe of God slain the devill and all his Angels all the enemies of mans salvation are overcome and the Saints are said to overcome him by his blood as they have their garments washt in the blood of the Lambe as they are justified and sanctified by his blood and by his Word the victory of Christ over the devill and his Angels being obtained not in his own name but for us we that beleeve in his blood and the word of his testimony are said in him to have overcome Satan and his Angels the enemies of our salvation Do you see now how simply you have quoted Scripture here and how little to your purpose Surely this is no small fin thus to abuse and wrest the Word and the truth of God to the maintaining of errors therefore repent for it Again you say the power of the Magistrate under the Gospel is an Antichristian way and you have fairly prov'd it Let me tell you just thus did John of Leyden in Munster all Power of the Magistrate amongst Christians was by him and his followers cry'd down as Antichristian and persecution of tender consciences till he himself had gained power by his seduced ones to murther and banish all the Magistrates in Munster and John himself was got up into the Throne of Soveraignty made and proclaimed by them his followers to be King of the new Jerusalem in Munster where he exercised a great deal of most barbarous and unheard of cruelty and then Magistracie was no longer Antichristian when the Saints there as they call'd themselves were once become Magistrates I onely minde you of this story because the Town and Countrey Note that Giles Hancox one of the Subscriters hath since this taken his Oath for Iustice of the Peace and now executes that office in Cirencester speaks it that some of you that have here subscribed Magistracie to be Antichristian are designed and appointed and are ready to undertake the office of being Magistrates among your neighbours I hope when you your selves come to be Magistrates and Justices then Magistracie will no longer be accounted Antichristian amongst you when the Sword is once in the Saints hands But that I may not discourage you in your young undertakings I will take a little pains to inform your ignorance and to shew you what foot-steps the Magistrates executing of Justice upon transgressors both against the first and second Table hath in the Gospel I hope I shall make it appear plainly to you that 't is so farre from being Antichristian that it is Gods own ordinance and that under the Gospel and you shall see 't is onely ignorance that makes you so impudent as to say that this hath no foot-steps in the Gospel In the first place let me tell you that all the best reformed Churches in Christendome do renounce and detest these Anabaptisticall dreams of yours and most harmoniously and willingly confesse and acknowledge it to be Gods will that the world be governed by Laws by the way remember that the Church is within the Common-wealth and God himself hath appointed the Civill Magistrate and hath delivered to him the Sword to the protection and praise of good men and for punishment on the evill And by this bridle mens vices and wickednesses should be restrained whether committed against the first or against the second Table 2ly They confesse the Power and Authoritie of Magistrates to be the ordinances of God himself appointed as well to the manifestation of his own glory as to the singular profit of mankinde That by reason of the will of God himself revealed in his Word we must not onely suffer and be content that they should rule but also to love them fear them and withall reverence and honour and embrace them as the Embassadors and Ministers of the most high God being in his stead and preferr'd for the good of their Subjects that we should poure out prayers for them pay tributes to them and in all businesses of the Common-wealth which are not against the Word of God to obey their Laws and Edicts 3ly They beleeve also and do willingly acknowledge that every lawfull Magistrate being by God himself constituted the keeper and defender of both Tables of the Law may and ought first and chiefly to take care of Gods glory and according to his place to preserve Religion when pure and to restore it when decayed and corrupted and to this end to restrain and punish as well Atheists Blasphemers Hereticks and Schismaticks as the violaters of Justice and Civill peace Now by what spirit you are led to run out of and to cry down the opinions and practises of all the Churches of Christ in this point as Antichristian every man may judge And the Lord help you timely to see whither you are running headlong not onely beyond the Churches of Christ but into abâ—urdities and extremities which even the Law of Nature teaches poore Pagans and Heathens to avoid who have
these abilities and parts And seeing the Spirit of God directs and enables us by these abilities and parts to divide the word aright to instruct exhort correct and convince c. I hope that the simplicity of your Quaere and the the sufficiency of our commission in this doth visibly appear to rationall men And before I leave this point let me tell you that we can never sufficiently admire nor detest the saucinesse of those bold Intruders in these dayes who venture to become teachers of the ignorant before themselves have been Disciples of the Learned who being rude and unlearned I had almost said illiterate mechanicks without calling and without knowledge do so boldly and presumptuously leap from their manuall Trades into this sacred and dreadfull office of which Paul himself could cry out who is sufficient And though some of them pretend to a calling to it and to gifts and abilities for their calling I would feigne know who is the author of it if they avouch God I would require that they should prove thâ—â— their calling from God by some evident signe for whensoever it pleaseth God to change the ordinary course and to cal any man to any office extraordinary he declares that his good will and pleasure by some evident signe Now if the calling of our Anabaptisticall new teachers be ordinary let them demonstrate it by the Scripture if extraordinary let them prove it by signe and by miraclâ—â— And as for their gifts and abilities in which they say they are spirituall men and have all the gifts from the spirit I shall tell you that whatsoever their pretences be to the Spirit and Revelations and Infusions yet seeing they cannot do as those Primitive Christians did seeing they come as far short of those Christians in extraordinary gifts as they do behind them in time seeing they are so far from speaking with strange Tongues that they cannot speake correctly See Dr. Featly Dipper dipt and coherently in their own mother-Tongue seeing they are many times so wide from the sence of some Scriptures they venture to expound and apply that their Expositions and Applications are oft without sence seeing they utter old broken Notes taken from other mens Sermons for new Revelations seeing they furbish up ancient heresies that have layen long in the dark for Christian Armour of light seeing in their Interpretations they not onely contradict Scripture but themselves seeing their prophecyings are but vain janglings though some of them have got a glib tongue and thereby slide into the approbation of the vulgar sort seeing in their contemplations they oft soar so high as that they loose themselves and vent blasphemies and grosse errors for visions and revelations of the Spirit Seeing I say that notwithstanding all their specious pretences these be their fruits as the very sad experience of these times do too well manifest to the world They shall give us leave to esteeme them no Prophets but Enthusiasts no inspired men but distracted no Seers but dreamers no Expositors but Impostors no workmen but botchers no fixed stars but wanderers no lights but exhalations incensed in the night which leade fools out of their way sometimes into thickets sometimes into ditches and quagmyres and many into Rivers over head and ears Paper Your next Quaere is where is our command that we should admit any to either seals before they can make it visibly to appeare that they are in Christ Ans Here you begin to speak a little plainly and to tell us now what Religion you are of viz. pure Anabaptists I know your meaning is where is our commission to baptize Infants for these cannot make it visibly appeare that they are in Christ I answer where is your command from Christ to require all those that would be admitted to the seals first to make it visibly appear that they have interest in Christ I here undertake to make it good to you from the Word of God first that it is an unwarrantable practice in you or any other and an unjust scrupulosity to require satisfaction of the true grace and reall holines of every one that is admitted a member of the visible Church what do you think of the Apostles baptizing Simon Magus Act. 8. 13. 't is true the text saith that he beleeved also and was baptized but all the world knows and acknowledges that that beleeving was but an externall profession of faith being convinced by miracles of Gods power did he or could he make it visibly appear that he had interest in Christ The Apostles tell him afterward in that Chapter that he was in the gall of bitternesse and the bond of iniquitie yet having before made but an outward profession of faith in Christ he was admitted to baptisme And where there is such an outward profession made you cannot answer the denying the seal of Baptisme to such a one And we have no warrant to require a farther satisfaction of their reall interest in Christ And therefore 2ly I likewise undertake to make it good to against you and your Goliah who ever he be that children of beleeving and Christian parents ought to be admitted to the first seal of the Covenant viz Baptisme and if you require a syllabicall command for this practise I desire to know of you on the contrary where Christ or his Apostles have in plain tearms forbidden or denyed them this ordinance or where we are commanded not to admit them because the Church wherein we live hath been for many hundred yeers and is still to this day in possession and practice of this ordinance I being alreadie satisfied in my own conscience must hear from you what you have to say against this practice before I spend more labour in the defence of it if you have any thing to say against it let me hear what it is and I doubt not but I shall easily make it appear to you that your denying the Sacrament of Baptisme to Infants of Parents professing faith is an hereticall opinion and practice and so convince you of your errour herein And I shall likewise in that shew you our commission from Christ for this practice Paper In the next place you ask us where is our command to admit prophane drunkards swearers lyars or raylers to the Lords table Ans First whosoever charges us with admitting prophane drunkards swearers lyars or raylers as such to the Lords Supper they are lyars and raylers 2ly I demand of you whether if a man hath once been a drunkard lyar swearer c. he may never be admitted because he hath been formerly such a one or whether those that have been such may not be admitted when they give visible testimonies and professions of their repentance of their desires to wait upon God in that ordinance for their receiving a seal of the pardon of their former sins upon their repentance and faith in Christ and for increasing confirming and strengthening that grace they have already received in their