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world_n church_n part_n visible_a 4,373 5 9.1099 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A77724 A publick disputation sundry dayes at Killingworth in Warwick-shire, betwixt John Bryan, doctor in divinity (minister at Coventry) and John Onley, pastor of a church at Lawford. Upon this question, whether the parishes of this nation generally be true churches. Wherin are nine arguments alleged in proof of the affirmative of the question, with the answer of I. O. thereunto, together with Doctor B. Reply. Also an addition of ten arguments more in further proof of the question, with an answer adjoyned in disproof thereof. Published by both their consents, as appears by the ensuing epistles. Bryan, John, d. 1676.; Onley, John. 1655 (1655) Wing B5245; Thomason E823_9; ESTC R207672 61,370 75

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abominable_a etc._n etc._n but_o they_o do_v so_o ergo_fw-la the_o minor_n be_v manifest_a the_o consequent_a be_v the_o apostle_n titus_n 1._o 16._o more_o shall_v be_v say_v of_o this_o in_o answer_n to_o the_o next_o argument_n now_o to_o the_o latter_a branch_n touch_v the_o parochial_a assembly_n be_v conjoin_v in_o covenant_n which_o be_v evince_v by_o their_o constant_a meeting_n every_o lord_n day_n to_o worship_n god_n together_o which_o be_v a_o implicit_a covenant_n though_o i_o may_v well_o let_v this_o pass_v for_o i_o deny_v a_o covenant_n to_o be_v the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o you_o have_v little_a reason_n to_o say_v this_o be_v our_o definition_n of_o a_o church_n for_o though_o i_o own_o it_o in_o the_o first_o branch_n yet_o not_o in_o the_o second_o yet_o notwithstanding_o see_v you_o undertake_v to_o prove_v your_o church_n by_o this_o to_o be_v true_a in_o form_n they_o fall_v short_a of_o what_o they_o who_o make_v this_o definition_n 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which_o be_v only_o to_o your_o purpose_n your_o first_o argument_n stand_v in_o that_o form_n than_o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n because_o that_o both_o conversion_n by_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o word_n etc._n etc._n may_v be_v separable_a from_o the_o church_n and_o perform_v out_o of_o the_o church_n as_o be_v so_o evident_a it_o need_v no_o proof_n last_o you_o reason_n thus_o where_o there_o be_v a_o meeting_n together_o etc._n etc._n answ_n i_o deny_v that_o there_o be_v such_o a_o meeting_n by_o the_o parish_n of_o england_n as_o that_o in_o matth._n 18._o for_o the_o presence_n of_o christ_n there_o speak_v of_o be_v that_o when_o two_o or_o three_o that_o be_v true_o godly_a be_v meet_v together_o to_o desire_v something_o of_o the_o lord_n he_o will_v grant_v their_o request_n because_o he_o at_o that_o time_n be_v present_a with_o they_o but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o general_a meeting_n of_o the_o parish_n of_o this_o nation_n where_o many_o nay_o the_o most_o 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way_n final_o the_o apostle_n peter_n command_v we_o all_o to_o be_v ready_a always_o to_o give_v a_o answer_n to_o every_o man_n that_o ask_v we_o a_o reason_n of_o the_o hope_n that_o be_v in_o we_o with_o meekness_n and_o fear_n if_o god_n honour_n and_o the_o good_a of_o those_o who_o ask_v require_v it_o both_o which_o i_o apprehend_v be_v concern_v in_o my_o yield_n to_o your_o motion_n and_o therefore_o embrace_v it_o le●ving_v the_o issue_n to_o god_n and_o for_o the_o same_o reason_n have_v i_o yield_v to_o your_o secod_n motion_n make_v in_o the_o close_a of_o the_o three_o or_o four_o day_n disputation_n viz._n that_o your_o argument_n and_o answer_n and_o reply_v and_o rejoinder_n upon_o the_o first_o question_n may_v be_v put_v in_o print_n and_o to_o your_o proviso_n that_o at_o present_a i_o shall_v make_v no_o reply_n unto_o your_o answer_n to_o the_o ten_o last_o argument_n as_o you_o will_v no_o rejoynder_n to_o my_o reply_n upon_o your_o answer_n to_o the_o nine_o first_o and_o if_o you_o have_v a_o mind_n you_o may_v rejoin_v your_o engagement_n to_o the_o contrary_n i_o free_v you_o from_o yea_o and_o give_v you_o liberty_n which_o you_o have_v already_o take_v all_o along_o without_o check_n to_o oppose_v what_o you_o please_v and_o to_o take_v in_o also_o the_o help_n of_o master_n morley_n and_o those_o other_o seven_o who_o assist_v you_o in_o disputation_n that_o the_o utmost_a you_o and_o they_o can_v object_v further_o against_o our_o parish_n church_n may_v come_v under_o our_o view_n only_o for_o your_o reader_n sake_n i_o can_v wish_v you_o will_v forbear_v instead_o of_o argue_v to_o make_v any_o more_o excursion_n by_o tedious_a impertinent_a declamation_n against_o our_o minister_n and_o member_n wherein_o all_o your_o answer_n for_o the_o most_o part_n spend_v themselves_o which_o yet_o the_o man_n of_o your_o own_o way_n will_v admire_v serious_o but_o all_o other_o of_o any_o competent_a understanding_n ironical_o use_v job_n word_n to_o bildad_n chap._n 26._o 3._o how_o have_v thou_o plentiful_o declare_v the_o thing_n as_o it_o be_v suffer_v i_o to_o speak_v my_o thought_n and_o hope_n when_o all_o be_v that_o can_v be_v say_v by_o their self_o or_o any_o other_o to_o overthrow_v the_o parochial_a assembly_n of_o this_o nation_n they_o will_v stand_v like_o mount_n zion_n which_o though_o it_o may_v be_v move_v in_o its_o place_n can_v be_v remove_v out_o of_o its_o place_n and_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n which_o we_o be_v endeavour_v to_o settle_v in_o our_o congregation_n will_v prove_v like_o the_o palm_n tree_n quae_fw-la non_fw-la cedit_fw-la ponderi_fw-la sed_fw-la surgit_fw-la adversum_fw-la pondus_fw-la nor_o do_v i_o doub_v but_o when_o christ_n our_o king_n have_v turn_v his_o hand_n upon_o we_o and_o pure_o purge_v away_o our_o dross_n and_o take_v away_o all_o our_o tin_n he_o will_v set_v up_o his_o throne_n and_o keep_v a_o stand_a majesty_n in_o the_o midst_n of_o these_o golden_a candlestick_n then_o they_o that_o be_v our_o enemy_n shall_v see_v and_o shame_n shall_v cover_v they_o which_o say_v unto_o we_o where_o be_v the_o lord_n your_o god_n mean_v time_n we_o will_v bear_v the_o indignation_n of_o the_o lord_n because_o we_o have_v sin_v against_o he_o until_o he_o plead_v our_o cause_n and_o execute_v judgement_n for_o we_o yea_o though_o he_o suffer_v you_o to_o kill_v we_o after_o three_o day_n and_o a_o half_a we_o shall_v revive_v and_o stand_v upon_o our_o foot_n and_o many_o out_o of_o all_o language_n separate_a society_n shall_v relinquish_v their_o divide_v principle_n and_o practice_n and_o take_v hold_v of_o the_o skirt_n of_o a_o gospel_n presbyterian_a say_v we_o will_v go_v with_o you_o for_o we_o have_v hear_v that_o god_n be_v with_o you_o this_o be_v the_o hope_n and_o shall_v be_v the_o prayer_n of_o your_o love_a friend_n and_o servant_n in_o the_o lord_n john_n bryan_n that_o the_o national_a congregation_n of_o england_n be_v the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n say_v dr._n john_n bryan_n minister_n in_o coventry_n and_o these_o be_v his_o argument_n to_o prove_v it_o as_o follow_v deny_v by_o mr._n john_n only_a with_o the_o ground_n of_o his_o dissent_n in_o answer_n to_o his_o argument_n whether_o the_o parish_n of_o this_o nation_n general_o be_v true_a quest_n quest_n church_n those_o society_n which_o the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n b._n argument_n 1._o dr._n b._n general_o throughout_o the_o world_n own_o and_o acknowledge_v to_o be_v true_a church_n they_o be_v true_a church_n but_o the_o parish_n assembly_n of_o england_n be_v so_o own_a and_o acknowledge_v therefore_o the_o parish_n assembly_n of_o england_n be_v true_a church_n the_o minor_a be_v undeniable_a for_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n of_o europe_n give_v we_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o fellowship_n when_o we_o be_v much_o more_o corrupt_a than_o now_o and_o so_o have_v all_o the_o church_n of_o new-england_n do_v in_o their_o treatise_n 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much_o sore_a censure_n shall_v he_o be_v think_v worthy_a that_o despise_v the_o judgement_n of_o all_o the_o know_a church_n in_o the_o world_n again_o christ_n have_v give_v his_o church_n power_n to_o judge_n and_o pronounce_v of_o a_o particular_a man_n that_o he_o be_v in_o the_o estate_n of_o salvation_n and_o that_o infallible_o therefore_o he_o have_v make_v it_o much_o more_o able_a to_o pronounce_v of_o a_o congregation_n or_o people_n that_o be_v a_o true_a church_n which_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o no_o such_o difficulty_n as_o the_o other_o 1_o tim._n 3._o 15._o the_o church_n be_v the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n but_o this_o it_o can_v not_o be_v if_o it_o shall_v be_v ignorant_a of_o a_o truth_n so_o necessary_a as_o this_o viz._n what_o people_n be_v to_o be_v account_v a_o true_a church_n that_o these_o society_n by_o you_o mention_v may_v bear_v testimony_n to_o you_o to_o be_v true_a may_v be_v undeniable_a but_o then_o the_o question_n will_v o._n answ_n 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its_o proper_a place_n where_o i_o shall_v have_v occasion_n to_o vindicate_v the_o truth_n of_o those_o church_n which_o you_o deny_v to_o be_v true_a the_o sum_n of_o your_o answer_n be_v st_z fir_n by_o way_n of_o concession_n that_o all_o the_o church_n mention_v by_o i_o which_o be_v all_o the_o know_a church_n b._n reply_n dr._n b._n in_o the_o world_n own_o and_o acknowledge_v our_o parochial_a assembly_n to_o be_v true_a church_n this_o savour_n of_o ingenuity_n 2._o by_o way_n of_o exception_n against_o the_o validity_n of_o the_o testimony_n of_o these_o church_n because_o they_o be_v the_o same_o for_o matter_n and_o formwith_n we_o according_a to_o the_o proverb_n ask_v my_o brother_n if_o i_o be_v a_o thief_n this_o seem_v to_o savour_v of_o arrogancy_n the_o testimony_n of_o two_o or_o three_o man_n be_v wont_a to_o be_v take_v for_o truth_n by_o warrant_n both_o of_o law_n and_o gospel_n john_n 8._o 17._o mat._n 18._o 16._o 2_o cor._n 13._o 1._o heb._n 10._o 28._o now_o 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church_n because_o they_o want_v a_o right_a constitution_n the_o antecedent_n i_o thus_o prove_v those_o society_n that_o have_v the_o true_a matter_n and_o form_n of_o gospel_n church_n have_v a_o right_a constitution_n matter_n and_o form_n be_v the_o only_a constitutive_a principle_n and_o make_v up_o the_o essence_n of_o every_o body_n both_o natural_a and_o political_a but_o our_o parish_n assembly_n have_v the_o true_a matter_n and_o form_n of_o gospel_n church_n therefore_o they_o have_v a_o true_a church_n constitution_n the_o minor_a i_o make_v good_a from_o your_o own_o definition_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n viz._n a_o company_n of_o visible_a saint_n combine_v or_o conjoin_v in_o special_a bond_n consent_n or_o covenant_n to_o partake_v of_o all_o god_n ordinance_n and_o to_o perform_v all_o duty_n which_o they_o owe_v to_o god_n and_o each_o to_o other_o i_o argue_v thus_o those_o society_n that_o consist_v of_o visible_a saint_n so_o combine_v be_v true_a church_n we_o 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psal_n 63._o 1_o 2._o you_o deny_v my_o minor_n with_o the_o same_o limitation_n as_o you_o grant_v the_o major_n god_n dwell_v not_o you_o say_v in_o the_o parish_n of_o this_o nation_n as_o a_o church_n i_o will_v to_o gratify_v and_o if_o it_o be_v possible_a to_o convince_v you_o make_v good_a that_o christ_n dwell_v in_o the_o parish_n of_o this_o nation_n as_o a_o church_n by_o those_o three_o reason_n evidence_v his_o presence_n among_o we_o for_o the_o fortify_v whereof_o i_o be_v spare_v in_o bring_v scripture-proof_n or_o far_a reason_n not_o because_o i_o have_v not_o store_n of_o both_o but_o because_o i_o judge_v it_o needless_a to_o light_v a_o candle_n to_o the_o sun_n but_o see_v you_o tax_v i_o for_o bare_a assert_v you_o shall_v see_v i_o strong_o confirm_v each_o of_o the_o reason_n take_v in_o your_o own_o restriction_n first_o i_o prove_v the_o faithful_n constant_n preach_v of_o the_o word_n to_o be_v a_o note_n of_o christ_n presence_n with_o a_o people_n as_o 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the_o word_n among_o they_o and_o if_o no_o people_n in_o the_o world_n can_v be_v name_v that_o have_v this_o ordinance_n of_o preach_v which_o be_v not_o god_n church_n than_o this_o be_v a_o sure_a sign_n second_o it_o appear_v that_o his_o work_n save_a grace_n by_o this_o ordinance_n be_v as_o a_o sure_a sign_n 1_o cor._n 14._o 24_o 25._o he_o will_v report_v that_o god_n be_v in_o you_o as_o a_o church_n of_o a_o truth_n john_n 4._o 22._o christ_n prove_v the_o jew_n to_o be_v a_o true_a church_n because_o salvation_n may_v be_v have_v there_o out_o of_o the_o church_n there_o be_v no_o salvation_n ordinary_o if_o you_o can_v show_v that_o christ_n be_v present_a to_o convert_v etc._n etc._n in_o any_o society_n where_o his_o word_n be_v faithful_o and_o constant_o preach_v that_o be_v not_o his_o church_n this_o reason_n shall_v stand_v for_o invalid_a three_o the_o meeting_n mention_v matth._n 18._o you_o deny_v not_o to_o be_v a_o church-meeting_n therefore_o where_o a_o society_n meet_v to_o worship_n god_n by_o prayer_n as_o you_o expound_v it_o or_o for_o the_o administration_n of_o church_n censure_n as_o the_o place_n carry_v it_o there_o christ_n be_v present_a as_o his_o church_n now_o that_o the_o word_n be_v faithful_o and_o constant_o preach_v in_o our_o assembly_n and_o that_o christ_n convert_v etc._n etc._n by_o our_o preach_v and_o that_o our_o people_n meet_v together_o to_o pray_v in_o his_o name_n be_v manifest_a to_o all_o the_o world_n that_o we_o have_v idle_a ignorant_a minister_n in_o many_o congregation_n and_o a_o great_a multitude_n that_o want_v the_o power_n of_o godliness_n among_o we_o etc._n etc._n be_v acknowledge_v but_o it_o be_v well_o know_v as_o bad_a of_o both_o sort_n be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n and_o in_o the_o apostolical_a church_n which_o notwithstanding_o remain_v true_a church_n while_o he_o continue_v his_o presence_n and_o they_o meet_v and_o join_v in_o his_o true_a worship_n till_o god_n 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