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A15781 A briefe treatise in which, is made playne, that Catholikes liuing and dying in their profession, may be saued, by the iudgement of the most famous and learned Protestants that euer were. Agaynst a minister [N.E.] who in his epistle exhorteth an honourable person, to forsake her ancient Catholike Roman Religion, & to become one of his new-found-out Protestant congregation. Wright, William, 1563-1639. 1623 (1623) STC 26044; ESTC S103083 31,010 52

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saluation not only because they were all belieued of the holy Fathers who notwithstanding the belief of them haue been reputed alwayes Saints but because diuers famous learned Protestants brethren to all these Iury men teach the same expressely whose names you may read in the margent and what they say more largely in the Protestants Apology pag. 471 684. c. Which being applyed to what want soeuer occurreth in the verdicts of any named in the Iury will make it cleare that no such can be any impediment wherefore the same verdict ought not to passe as currant and good And therfore whē either Zanchius Mornay Serauia or any other of these Iurers doe accuse the Church of Rome of Adultery committing Idolatry bringing vp children to the diuell or of any such villanyes contrary to the true faith for belieuing any of these points now rehearsed we must tell them in plaine words that these be noe such letts as they imagine but rather their owne false and forged crimes meere vntruthes and calumniations put vpon the Church of Rome to make her odious to the commō people or for some other base end seing their owne brethren confesse against them saying that the beliefe of these cānot eyther hinder their sanctity or debarre any Catholike from obtayning their chiefest good and euerlasting saluation which if they had iudged to be Heresies Idolatries and such like abominations it may be presumed they would neuer teach Calu. l. 4. c. 1. n. 17. 2. Againe we must obserue with M. Caluin that there hath been no tyme since the creation of the world wherin the Lord hath not had his Church and that there shal be also no tyme to the very end of the world wherin he shall not haue it But now as for the Church of Rome it is certaine that it did continue the true visible church frō christ vntil the tyme of Constantine as M. Caluin hereafter auoucheth and that from Constantine vntill the tyme of Luther it neuer was interrupted is M. Napier vpon the Reuelations page 145. 16● 163. 19● 237. witnes M. Napier who saith that from the yeare 316. God withdrew his visible Church frō the open assemblies to the harts of particular godly men during the space of 1260. yeares The Pope and his Cleargy hauing possessed the outward visible Church of Christians euen 1260. years the true Church abyding so long latent inuisible out of which we inferre that all whosoeuer haue been saued since Christs Church was erected and sufficiently di●●lged haue beene saued in the Roman Church and whosoeuer haue dyed as members cut off from her or out of her could neuer attaine to the hopefull promises Calu. l 4. c. ● ● 4. D. Whitaker Out of the Church there is no other sea●● but the seate of error pestilence and euerlasting destruction of their chiefest good but miscarrying of their saluation could not auoide to be damned For what M. Caluin deliuereth speaking of the visible Church is most true to wit That out of her lappe no remission of sinnes is to be hoped nor any saluatiō at all But Milius If Luther ●ad bad orthodoxall forerunner● there had byn no need of a Lutheran reformatiō ●o Exp●cat Confess Aug. art 17. Luther saith we dare boast that Christ was first published by vs. Epist ad Arge●● M. Iewell Luther Zwinglius were appointed of God to kindle againe the light which you had q●●nched Defens Apol. part 1 c. 7. diuis 3. pag. 56. Pareus In Const●ntines time the Church begun to waxe fick to death notwithstāding the Catholike Church remained But where In the desert a●●● the world withdrawne from the eyes of ●en lib. 4. de gratia lib. arb that there was neuer any other visible Church of God which hath cōtinued since Christs tyme but the Church of Rome with her adherents the Protestants themselues confesse For although some fondly imagine that they had a Church yet neither Luther nor Caluin nor any other could euer point any such out which was apparent or visible to the eye of men For who can truly name any one Lutheran before Martin Luther or any one Caluinist before Iohn Caluin Verily none and much lesse a continuall and neuer-interrupted succession of Lutherans or Caluinists since Christs tyme who were not as inuisible to the world and as vnknowne as euer were those who are as yet vnborne A most foolish thing then it is yea and most ridiculous to auow that indeed there were such a company of zealous Protestants as some are not ashamed to say and that for aboue a thousand yeares they were all latent and inuisible which not only is impious and contrary to the Maiesty of the glorious VVho will not say that it was a s●●a●g● Church that had neyther beginning nor ending no def●nder no reprouer no mouth to vtter or ea●● to heare it nor pen to write nor place to rest in So M. Iewell in a like matter Art 2. diuis 8. S. Austin VVhat is this thou sayest The Church to haue perished in all Nations whē as to this end the Ghospell is preached that it may be in all Nations Therefore euen to the end of the world the Church i● in all Nations and this is the shortnes of her dayes In Psal 101. Th●se Markes sayth D. Willet cannot be absent from the Church and it is no longer a true Church thē it hath these mark●s For the only absence of them doth make a nullity of the Church In his Synops pag. 69. 71. which not to haue bene among Protestants for aboue a ●000 yeares wil witnes M. Nappier but in some fashion to haue byn alwayes in the Church of Rome is granted by M. B●ny in his Verdict which fashiō to haue bene the right and true fashion is euinced from thence that otherwise the Ch●●ch had perished contrary to Christs prediction saying The gates of Hell shall not preuayle against it M. Caluin lib. 4. inst c. 1. ● 4. Cal ● 4. inst c. ● 〈◊〉 If God did intend that the Couenant should remayne inuiolable left Baptisme a testimony therof for Catholike children as heere M. Caluin doth insinuate how doth no● the Couen●t to this day remayne among thē in the Church of Rome Agayne if the fayth of Catholick parēts be sufficient to place their children in the Couen●t state of saluatiō how much more may it be thought to establish the parents themselues in that Couenāt in whom reside● that faith which is so beneficial to their children Moreouer if the foundatiō of the Church halfe cast down doth remaine amōg Catholicks a● M. Caluin teacheth which is the true faith doctrine of Christ 1. cor 3. v. ●1 who dare deny that they are in the Couenant or that they may not be saued albeit they build there vpō wood hay stubble at least by fyre seing this is the expresse doctrine of the Apostle Kingdome of Christ foretould by the Prophets but lykewise