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world_n	church_n	militant_a	triumphant_a	2,228	5	11.7299	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A82002	A sober and temperate discourse, concerning the interest of words in prayer, the just antiquity and pedigree of liturgies, or forms of prayer in churches : with a view of the state of the church, when they were first composed, or imposed. Together with a discovery of the weakness of the grounds upon which they were first brought in, or upon which Bishop Gawden hath lately discoursed, the necessity of a liturgie, or the inconveniency of altering the English liturgie, the utility of church musick, and the lawfulness of ceremonies : in which are mixed reasons justifying those godly ministers, who forbear the use of the Common-prayer, against the late out-cryes of the said bishop. / By H.D. M.A.	H. D. (Henry Dawbeny); Collinges, John, 1623-1690, attributed name.	1661 (1661)	Wing D449; Thomason E1086_14; ESTC R208152	100,305	119

question why should so many good Subjects be lost to a Nation why should they have temptations to estrange their hearts from the ancient and excellent government thereof But matters of policy we most humbly leave to the grave wisdom and deliberations of His Sacred Majesty and His Parliaments Onely we must add a word to one or two Suggestions more which the Bishop hath for the imposing of the Liturgy CHAP. XIV Bishop Gaudens two Arguments from the Authority of the Church the influence of Subjects Conformity in devotion to their Prince considered No necessity of using the Liturgy upon these accounts I. THe truth is in other parts of his Book the Bishop did but like the Lapwing fly far about from his main design and argument which p. 27. he toucheth and yet but very tenderly The Authority of the Church must not be baffled Here indeed is the bottom of all we must have Liturgies and Ceremonies imposed to maintain the Authority and pomp and grandieur of what they call the Church II. The name of the Church is a reverend name and her Authority is reverend and by no means to be baffled for Christ is in her But as the Name and Authority of a rightful King is reverend so both the name and authority of an Usurper is justly abominable And as no Magistrates command is to be obeyed where he hath no right to command so neither is any Church nor is denial of obedience in that case any contempt of the Authority either of the Magistrate or of the Church we must therefore enquire strictly what Church this is which is clothed with Authority and what power she hath in the things we dispute about III. The Church is either Triumphant or Militant The Militant Church is visible or invisible It must be the Militant visible Church this also is an homonimous term and either signifies the universality of the people or the messengers of the people The Universality of people baptized into the name of Christ over all the world make up the Catholike visible Church The whole Company of them in this of that Province Nation City Parish make such a National Provincial or Parochial Church But we do not think this is the Church clothed with Authority We understand by a Church in that sense The Officers of such a Church constituted according to Gods Word whether they be the Officers of a particular Church or the messengers of the particular Churches in a Lugentile Synod a National or Provincial Synod or if it were possible in an Oecumenical Synod To Churches in all these political senses vve ow great reverence and acknowledge that to their several capacities several degrees of authority to admonish suspend excommunicate deprive declare the doctrine of saith in doubtful cases appoint some things truly and properly relating to decency or order c. IV. But it is more then we know that any such Church as this ever established a Liturgie in England The Papists have devised a new notion of a Church to them the Pope and his Cardinals make the Church but that any such notion of Church is justifiable from Scriptures Protestants deny V. Our State hath been pleased in some Acts of Parliament to take Church in another notion and to call the Prelacy of England the Church of England That this application of the term Church is not to be justified from Scripture or Reason is plain nor is it needful they may if they please call the Prelacy of England the Parliament or by what other name they please what should hinder But they cannot give them that Authority which the word of God allows onely to a Church in another notion but may cloath them with vvhat civil power they please VI. Hence it appears that it is all one vvith us in England to baffle or despise the Church and State for that company of men whom vve call the Church of England by a new civil application of the term is nothing else Then a company of men by a Civil Power made Bishops and called to advise the State in things concerning Religion who have no more Authority then they derive from the King or Parliament for whence should they have it Not from Nature Surely no Ecclesiastical power is derived from thence Not from Scripture upon any pretence for if vvhen Christ gave the Keyes to Peter he intended his single person as the Papists vvould have it then St. Peter's successor only can pretend to them if he gave them to Peter as an Officer of the Church then there must be either a full Convention of such Officers or some persons chosen by them to use them If to Peter as a Christian then the Authority is in the Community VII It remains that according to the Constitution of English Synods the Churches Authority is but derivative from the Civil State and to disobey them is no sin further then it is a disobedience to the lawful Civil Magistrate to vvhom vve freely grant an authority so far as Gods vvord allows us and such an authority as none ought to resist or baffle as the Bishop sayes The Church of England which we so often hear of is a Civil Church not an authoritative Church in a Scriptural notion VIII We again say Far be it from us to oppose Civil Authority either exercised by Lay persons or Ecclesiastical persons We acknowledge it our duty to render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars We further say vve are bound to obey the Civil Magistrate in all things in things lawful Actively in things unlawful in themselves or vvhich appear so to us by suffering their vvill and pleasure quietly and patiently That vvhich vve insist upon is onely a lawful means in order to our own preservation i. e. humbly desiring the Civil Magistrate to forbear imposing upon us in the tender things of God IX VVe freely allow to the Civil Magistrate a power to command us in all civil things and shall chearfully obey him 2. To command us to keep the Statutes and Commandments of God 3. To command us in the Circumstances relating to Divine Worship to do those things vvhich are generally commanded us in the vvord to appoint time and place and such circumstances vvithout vvhich the vvorship of God in the judgement of ordinary reason must be indecently and disorderly performed X. For his power in imposing Forms of prayer significant ceremonies c. vve do not dispute it but vve humbly crave leave to dissent in this and to have liberty to suffer his pleasure as becomes Christians rather then do those things vvhich our consciences vvould condemn us for And in this vve appeal to all sober Divines and all rational Christians vvhether vve speak not as becomes sober Christians XI VVe cannot vvithout some passion read vvhat the Bishop sayes p. 28. Doubtless Subjects cannot be so tite and firm or so zealous and firm or so chearful and constant in their Loyalty love and duty to their Soveraign if they

want of Elocution or freedom of speech or such other natural gifts without which none can judge himself called of God to that holy Employment Or 4. From want of exercising himself in the duty of Prayer All which are lamentable things for any professing himself a Minister so much as to be suspected of VII Yet that de facto there have been such called by the name of Ministers amongst us and that there are many such amongst us still cannot be reasonably denied But we dare to assert That all such are either such as for want of Natural Parts are by all Scriptural Rules determined insufficient and not fit for the Ministry or such as according to all Scriptural and Ecclesiastical Rules ought to be removed from the Ministry as neglecting to use the Gift of God bestowed on them or neglecting to study the Scriptures or such as live in open and known courses of Debauchery or finally such as have so used themselves to the lazy Devotion of Book Prayers that they have choaked their abilities or provoked God in righteous Judgment to deprive them of them VIII It yet remains a most demonstrable truth that the work of Prayer is not such as to the use of words in it but that any Minister of any competent abilities as all Ministers ought to be and who is in any reasonable degree acquainted with the holy Scriptures and with any Christian diligence either observeth his own heart or peoples converses and watcheth over his Flock but with half an eye may so perform as neither God shall be offended with his performance nor any sober Auditor scandalized and made to nauseate the Duty And it will upon experience be found impossible for any State or Church to maintain by imposing Forms of Prayer the credit of any Ministry whom the people shall discern so wofully neglective of their duty and defective in so noble a performance in which they are excelled by the meanest of the Vulgar There being no other way when all is tried to maintain the Authority of the Ministry than the employment of such and only such persons in that work who shall evidently appear to People as to the Gifts and Graces of Gods Spirit bestowed upon them to be taller by the Head and Shoulders than those are over whom God hath set them Other Devices may be tried this only in the end will be found efficacious CHAP. III. The Original of Lyturgical Forms of Prayer None for 400 years after Christ None imposed upon any considerable Part of the Church till 800 years after Christ when all manner of Superstitious Usages had defiled the Church I. VVHich being premised it is no wonder at all that neither Christ nor his Purer Church ever imposed upon the Church any Books of Lyturgies Duranti rationale l. 5. c. 2. Durantus indeed tels us That Christ himself who certainly had an infallible Spirit and a proportion of it without measure if that may be called a proportion yet used that excellent Form of Prayer called the Lords Prayer by which he taught his Disciples to pray And that the Apostles used the Creed called but never yet proved their 's But he confesseth that in Primitivâ Ecclesiâ diversi diversa quisque pro suo velle cantabant dummodo quod cantabant ad Dei Gloriam pertinebat In the Primitive Church every one sung or prayed for that he called singing as they pleased so what they all did related to the Glory of God When Christ sent out his Disciples to preach he was so particular in directing them that he takes care to direct them to provide a Purse and a Scrip but none for a Service-Book Nor did the Apostle Paul in his particular directions to Timothy or Titus whether they were Evangelists or Bishops though he ordered them to ordain Ministers and charge them to fulfil their Office by putting up Prayers and Supplications for all men c. so much as mention any Missal or Lyturgy for their directions which it is strange they should have omitted had Lyturgies been so necessary as we are now told they be that Religion without them cannot be preserved nor Heresies without them restrained II. Those holy Servants of God knew that the Spirit of Prayer was powred out in the world and that the gift of Prayer was one of those gifts which their Master when he ascended up on high did give unto men and were tender of delivering ought to the Church which they had not received from the Lord And which Tertullian said afterward were willing that Ministers should pray sine Monitore quia de pectore without a Monitor not a Mummer as some would have it because it was their duty to pray from their hearts they therefore even in the Confession of our Adversaries and the greatest Masters of the Ceremonies left no Lyturgies for the Church of God III. Indeed Claudius de Sainctes and Pamelius two Popish Divines have discovered to the world the Terra incognita of certain Lyturgies fathered upon St. James St. Peter and St. Mark De Missae apparatu l. 7. c. 21. which Josephus Vicecomes takes notice of but doth not think fit to insist upon them Cardinal Bellarmine in his Book de Scriptor Eccles neither mentions that of Peter nor Mark but brands all Books not mentioned by him attributed to St. Peter with the names of spurii supposititii That of St. James indeed he mentioneth Bellarm. De Script Eccl de Jac. Apostol but tels us that it is so basely augmented that none can determine what of it was St. James's But the Learned Mornay hath said enough to prove that these pretended Lyturgies of the Apostles were all Fictions and it will be no hard matter to evince every sober Reader the truth of it Who knows not how hard a thing the Bishops in the Councils of Ephesus and Calcedon found it to find a place or two in the Writings of the Ancients where the Virgin Mary was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Where had the difficulty been if these Lyturgies had been in the world and in Proclus his hand too who was present in the Council of Ephesus who they say transmitted that of St. James to the world for in that Lyturgy it is 5 or 6 times over Nor certainly would the Members of the Synod of Constantinople have been at a loss to have proved out of this the calling of the Holy Spirit consubstantial with the Father had they ever seen this new invented Toy Both in this and St. Marks Lyturgy Christ is again and again called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with his Father which certainly would have determined that great Question about that Word in the Nicene and other Councils Both in St. James's and St. Marks Lyturgies we have the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 invented by Felix 480. To say nothing of the Notions of Altars Temples burning Frankincense Censers such as lived in Monasteries Confessors the Prayer for the Pope In St. Marks Lyturgy the

the time to make a new Lytugry the Common people would have thought it a new Religion they therefore translate the old Gregorian Missal leaving out the Prayers for the Pope and to Saints and for Saints departed and a few such things as could not be used without palpable Idolatry and translate the other Prayers in the Mass-Book out of Latine into English and these were some of them established by that Act 5 6. Ed. 6. Stat. 1. The truth of this any one that can understand Latine may convince himself of by comparing the Mass-Book with the Com. Pr. of Edw. 6. Where he will find betwixt 40. and 50. Collects translated verbatim and if he compares the other parts with the Roman Breviary the Roman Ritual and the Pontificale Romanum he will yet further see the truth of it XXIV Not indeed could it be imagined that those first Reformers should leave at that time all Ministers at liberty or to their own conceived Prayers when most of them were Papists in their hearts generally so sottishly ignorant and insufficient that they could not have done any thing Which very cause held in Qu. Eliz. time where 1 El. c. 2. the Common Prayer was with some further emendations specified in the Statute 5 Eliz c 28. again imposed In the 5th year of her Reign by Act of Parliament the Common Prayer was ordered to be translated into Welch and used in Wales And this is the true Story both of Lyturgies in the General and the English Lyturgy in special XXV By this time the Reader who hath not a mind to revive Pythagoras his School again and to sacrifice his Reason to an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 believe every thing that is told him before he hath tried the truth of it may see reason to desire the present L. Bish of Exeter to tell him if he can where those same ancient models of Lyturgies not Roman Bish Hall Remonstr p. 13. but Christian and contrived by the holy Martyrs and Confessors of the blessed Reformation of Religion are to be found The Remonstrant was challenged to make it good out of ancient Models but thought fit to wave the business in his Reply It hath been the old Plea but let them prove it if they can saith Didoclavius Or if his present Lordship of Exeter doth not think fit to answer for another yet it is reason that he should justifie his own words He hath told us in p. 8. of his Considerations touching the Lyturgy That The Ancient Churches from the very first Century did use such-publick wholsom Forms of found words in their Sacramental celebrations especially and afterwards in other holy Administrations or publick duties as made up their solemn devout and publick Lyturgies which Patterns all Modern and Reformed Churches of any Renown have followed according to the many Scriptural Examples and Expressions in set Forms of Prayer Psalms Confessions and Benedictions commended to us by holy men in all ages and by Christ himself XXVI The world is grown too wary to believe any thing of this because any one saith so and the Doctor is too wise to undertake to prove this Let him prove That Christ prescribed the Lords Prayer for a Form or that the Apostles ever used it so 2. Let him prove that in any of the four first Centuries there was any Stated Forms of Prayer used in the Church 3. Let him prove that any Modern Reformed Churches imposed any Forms of Prayer so that those and no other might be used And 4 That they did this after the Pattern of the Ancient Churches from the first Century All these things are to be proved nor is it possible to prove them XXVII In the 18th p. of that Discourse he tels us That Dr. Gaudens Consider p. 19. It is a Jesuitical Artifice and back-blow used by some to aver though falsely That the English Lyturgy was nothing else but the Romish Missal or Mass-book turned into English 'T is true he saith some things very scriptural devout and excellent which the Roman Missal had taken and retained after the ancient Form of Lyturgies of the Church were severed and taken as Wheat from Chaffe and Jewels from Dross by our wise Reformers and preserved in the English Lyturgy conform to pious and unspotted Authority We challenge Dr. Gauden and all others of his mind to make this good if they can It is true there are some things in the English Lyturgy that are not in the Gregorian Missal But let any one take Missale Romanum both the old one and that established by the Council of Trent Breviarium Romanum Rituale Romanum and Pontificale Romanum and compare them all with the printed Com. Prayer-book of 5 6 E. 6. and then judge whether he can find a 6th part of the latter which is in none of the former If he finds that there is very little added let him the learn how to trust men talking after such a magisterial rate and annexing no proofs of their words XXVIII If the Reader finds it true that whatsoever Dr. Gauden saith there is in our English Lyturgy as it is commonly exposed to sale very little but what is to be found in the Mass-book in Latine let him then go to the Bishop of Exeter and desire him for his credit sake to shew him those ancient Forms of Lyturgy used in the Church out of which these Forms of Prayer were transcribed and taken which must be immediately after the first Century or tell him what that same pious and unspotted authority is If he tels him it is Pope Gregories which he must if he speaks truth let him tell him that he hath heard that he was a vile wretch accused for a Murtherer the Father of most of the superstitious usages now in the Church of Rome one who understood not the Greek Tongue as himself confesseth a man of no admirable Judgment witness his pretented Commentaries upon Job which might have as well been upon the Revelation a man very far from being either pious or unspotted or fit for his Seat one that defended Purgatory that fawned upon Phocas the Murderer in short one of no deserved Name or Authority in the Church of God XXIX By this Discourse it appears that there was no Lyturgy directing Forms of Prayers for the Church till Pope Gregories time Anno 600. nor any imposed till the time of Charles the Great Anno 800. when all manner of superstitious usages were brought into the Church nor was it then imposed without a Persecution attending it And this Reader is the pious and unspotted Authority the Bishop tels thee of From hence thou wilt also conclude the antiquity of the English Lyturgy the reason of its first being imposed and no further reformed either by K. Edw. or by Qu. Elizabeth In King James his time it received some additions what Reformation we cannot tell XXX By all this Discourse it appeareth that there is no divine Prescript no Apostolical

Modesty Charity Piety Faith and Confidence in God All the time of Lent that I was there nothing hindred but that I might every day read a piece of the Gospel to them and expound it and exhort them out of it to the study of Godliness But after Easter it was less convenient for the Family was not at-leisure to spend much time at Church their business did so call upon them and there are some that are sick of the Church if they tarry there never so little while pierique ut forme ubique mos est c. Most people as the manner is amant quotidie audire imo videre Sacrum love to hear yea to see service every day yea to hear those things mumbled over that they understand not to see the Ceremonies to be present at the Blessing to commend themselves perfunctorily unto God and so think they have been religious enough of all conscience in that day wherein they have done this quod sane exigni fructus est credo plerisque interim conducibilius esset arare texere which truly saith he is little worth and I am perswaded it were better for many to have been plowing or weaving I. 1 Epist Oeculamp Zuinglii These words may be a Glass for these times or Riving of Logs or doing any other work And if they may be believed not is it incredible find more comfort in the Lyturgy than in all the Promises of the Gospel the reason is Missa non mordet For the Scoffes and Jears of such as are possessed with a Spirit of Prophanesse 't is hard to avoid them Nor are we further concerned than not to give just cause to them to prophane the Worship of God which may be done without a Lyturgy if the Governors of the Church take due care that none but persons fit in respect both of Parts and Piety be admitted to or continued in the exercise of the Office of the Ministry V. But it seems this Master of our Lyturgical Feast hath kept his best wine till the last for he tels us that a Lyturgy is necessary or conduceth at least mightily above all to the edification and salvation as well as the unanimity and peace of the meanest sort of People Salvation and Edification in order to it are great things so also are unanimity and peace and doubtless by all just and lawful means to be endeavoured But how shall a Lyturgy conduce to these Certainly the Captain of our Salvation hath directed the best and most proper means for the Salvation and Edification of souls and we need not devise other than what he hath appointed yet did he never institute a Lyturgy nor the Apostles after him He tels us That a daily variety of Expressions in Prayer or Sacraments is much at one to the Vulgar with Latin Service little understood Pag. 11. and less remembred by them they are still out and to seek when a new Minister officiates yea and when the same if he affects variety ef words where the duty is the same For the peoples remembring it were worth the while to examine the Vulgar people where a Liturgy is constantly used how much they remember of it If the Doctor would do this he might possibly be convinced that a Lyturgy is not such an effectual means to imprint Divinity notions in peoples memories As to the peoples understanding the reading of the Lyturgy signifies as little if the furious Zealots for Lyturgies amongst the Vulgar were examined of their sense of the several phrases they would make a wild Interpretation It is not the using of a Lyturgy will bring people to such an understanding the Body of Divinity as is necessary to him that would understand a good Prayer whether it be a stinted Form or no but their understanding of a good Catechisme to be wrought in them by a frequent exercise of Catechizing and when they once understand the Principles of Religion they will easily understand a Prayer though they do not alwaies hear the same words where the Minister doth not affect a vanity and singularity of phrase which if he doth the Governors of the Church ought to restrain him by admonition and other Censures This is the way to make people understand Prayers whether the Phrase be the same or diverse provided it be not phantastick and vain By this it appears that the Bishop hath said nothing to convince the world of any necessity of imposed Forms nor yet of any expediency in them We have before offered enough against them so that thus much may suffice to have spoken of Imposed Forms in the general CHAP. VII Supposing Forms of Prayer Lawful yet every Form is not What necessary or reasonable to be found in publick Forms Doctor Gaudens unhandsom and false Representations of Ministers refusing to use the Common Prayer I. FRom our former Discourse every intelligent Reader will easily conclude that we have neither asserted it unlawful to compose a Form of Prayer nor yet to use it either in private or publick no nor yet to impose it upon some All that we have questioned is the lawfulness of imposing Forms of Prayer upon all Ministers as well those whose gifts are eminently known and their diligence and conscience in that duty sufficiently experimented as those who either through Ignorance or Laziness are not fit to be trusted without such a guide in the publick service of God Nor do we think it impossible that a Minister of eminent gifts through some bodily or spiritual distemper may possibly be so out of course that he may lawfully enough help himself with a Form but because a Staffe may be useful for an old withered body and for a vegete and lively body that hath accidentally got some Vertigo in his head or wound in his foot it will nor therefore follow that it is reasonable that it be enacted that none should walk without it II. But certainly in reason those Forms which should be either publickly or privately used should be such rare Patterns of Prayer as might justly commend themselves to all ears as containing full confessions of sin Original and Actual full Petitions for spiritual and temporal Mercies for our selves and others as also proportionable Thanksgivings and all these expressed in Scripture phrases so ordered and couched that the hearers may be convinced that there is nothing contrary to the Will of God in them nor any momentous thing by Gods Will allowed us to ask which is omitted It is also reasonable that such Forms should be so worded so every way circumstantiated that no sober ear could be offended at them all conscientious Christians might say Amen to them and if any should be needful to plead their cause he might have more to say than that jejune commendation Nothing can be said against them but may be answered nor found in them but what is capable of a very good sense These are lamentable commendations for Forms of Prayer to be imposed upon a Church

idolatries Some of these are done as oft as their Mass-book is used so that their vvorship toties quoties as it is performed is idolatrous though not in every part yet in the complex III. We do observe how some Prelatists mince this point of the Idolatry of the Church of Rome they can grant vvith much ado vve believe that the worship of the Church of Rome is in some sense idolatrous what their sense is vve cannot tell nor care to inquire vve believe that except some few Pagans vvho might terminatively vvorship the Sun and Moon as thinking those noble Creatures vvere the very first movers and principles That never any heathens vvere guilty of more stupid sottish idolary then the Papists are For let vain persons talk vvhat they please it vvill never enter into our thoughts that either the Jews Jeroboam or Michal thought their Images the first principles of life and being such as reason teacheth to all that God must be nor yet that the Egyptians quibus nascebantur in hortis Numinae vvho vvorshipped any plants or any thing from vvhich they had good or hurt thought that those things vvere God They onely dreamt that God vvas Anima mundi the Soul of the World informing every living thing and vvorshipped an unknown God in the creature or by some created representation vvhich is yet gross and accursed idolatry and such is the Popish vvorship IV. VVe are not so filly as to think that the holy Scriptures dictated by the Spirit of God or any thing else of purely Divine Institution is capable of corruptions and therefore cannot but vvith some laughter read the argumentations of them vvho argue that if vve reject the Liturgy V. Dr. Causabon on the Lords prayer because the idolatrous Papists used it vve must also refuse the Scriptures and the Lords Prayer these are but toyes to blind common people vvho cannot see to the bottom of an Argument The holy Scriptures are incapable of pollution by any idolatrous service V. Their answer is as filly vvho tell us that then vve must use none of our Churches VVhen vve offer up Churches to God by any rational act vve vvill consider of this frivolous answer vvhich indeed may concern them that dream of a holiness in them by reason of dedication or the like it concerns not us vvho onely use them as convenient places in vvhich vve meet to serve God and believe them no more holy then any other places though the Law of Nature obligeth us to keep and use them decently VVe do so by our parlours vvhere we converse vvith our friends VI. Prayer is a piece of Gospel Sacrifice and by a rational act of our souls to be offered unto God now vvhether it be lawful for us vvhen the earth is the Lord and fulness thereof vvhereas God hath given us an ability to speak vvords in another form to take those very forms and to offer them up to God in true Gospel vvorship vvhich have been offered in an idolatrous service though the matter of those forms be not idolatrous is to us a great doubt nor can vve be satisfied in the lawfulness of it VII The ground of our scruple is in that known Text 1 Cor. 10. where the Apostle treateth concerning the lawfulness of eating meats that had been once offered to idols He determines as to a double case 1. That it is not lawful to eat such meats in an idols Temple 2. In case it be sold in the shambles and we know it not he determines that we may buy and eat it But in case our Brother saith unto us this hath been offered to an idol he saith Eat it not So that our Brethrens scandal upon such a foundation is to be avoided by us he gives the reason because there is other meat to eat The earth is the Lords and the fulness thereof VIII For our part we are not able to fathom a reason why a form of words fitted up for use in prayer should not be liable to the same corruption and pollution that a dish of meat fitted for natural use is or why it should be unlawful for one to eat the latter if once offered in an idolatrous service our Brother minding us of it and it yet be lawful to use a form of words in prayer so formerly used when our Brother is so scandalized IX We are aware of what the Drs. of Aberdeen said of old to prove that the scandal of brethren weighs light when put in the scale with the command of Authority There may something be said for their Assertion where the scandal is meerly passive and hath no foundation in re only men are offended because they are offended but where the scandal is such as is so far allowed by Scripture that a Negative precept is given upon it eat it not we are not of so easie a faith as to believe what they say when Gods word saith do it not Man cannot oblige our conscience to do it he may oblige us to suffer but not to act and that this is the case is evident Our Brethren say to us These Forms have been offered up in an idolatrous service and we know this is truth X. The Bishop of Exeter is mistaken therefore in suggesting that we forbear the using of the Liturgy out of a little point of reputation amongst some people rather weak then wise and to be pitied more then imitated and he shews little charity or candor in saying we sacrifice our judgements not to say our consciences to our credits and out of a fear or lothness to offend some people whom we might easily convince and satisfie as well by our examples as by arguments c. This is not spoken like a tender and a good Christian We hope we can say we value our reputation at a low rate in comparison of our duty Nor do we think non-conformity the way to credit now but that our peoples souls of which we confess we are tender are more weak then wise we cannot say Wisdom lies in avoiding sin yea the least sin and all appearances of evil That here is an appearance of evil no reasonable person can deny it is not so clear that we may do that as to forms of prayer which the word expresly forbids us as to a piece of meat not is it so clear to us that we may obey man in any case where the Word of God saith as to the thing commanded Do it not XI In the mean time we think those are to be pitied who had rather that their brethren should be all persecuted imprisoned banished together with those thousands of godly people who cannot in conscience worship God with these forms differences in the Church perpetuated and that so many thousands of sober people should have such a temptation to entertain hard thoughts of their Magistrate c. In short who had rather confound heaven and earth and scandalize all Christians in the world then lay aside forms of prayer of

composition and so may be altered and which hath been before defiled by being offered in an Idolatrous Service abhorred of God Let our Brethren speak to this Question and leave speaking to other things as our using the same Scriptures and Temples For the latter they know so did the Primitive Churches which yet never used the Pagan Forms of words This is not to speak ad idem VI. Because we have sworn to endeavour a Reformation in Worship and the extirpation of Superstition and what is contrary to or may hinder the power of Godliness VII Because of the infinite scandal which we must give to some of our Brethren that durst not use it and to thousands of our most judicious holy strictly living Christians and we durst not offend those little ones though we dare leave our Ministry if Authority will command one or the other VIII Because we see the number of those who are judicious sober Christians who desire it is very small but the generality of those given up to all manner of looseness prophaness and debauchery are impatient for it and rest in it 't is as the Papists Beads to them and they care for no other worship of God and we conceive it far from our duty to harden any in what we know is their sin and wickedness IX Because we are assured in our Consciences that very many of those in our ordinary Congregations who are earnest for it press the use of it upon no other account than from a Principle of malice against godly Ministers and People and desire it for nothing else but that they may have a weapon to destroy all religious persons by this is evident by experience when some Ministers have used some part they are yet as zealous to turn them out finding fault they do not read all then he doth not wear the Surplice he doth not pray the Canon Prayer he doth not say later Service Nor can we get of them any reason why they desire we should use it only 't is established by Law which we cannot believe If it were we think in matters of Gods worship somthing else must be considered X. Because the Forms appear to us very short of a perfect Model of Prayer full of obsolete words dubious phrases antique responds and such a Method through the whole as is like to none in any Reformed Church in the world nor any where to be parallel'd but in the Roman Missal nor any way suited to the spirits of Christians nor to the gravity of the duty We do not say this is so but to us it appeareth so and therefore it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 XI Finally we do not conceive the Interest and concern of words in Prayer such that there is any need at all that Forms should be starcht up for all to use those being best which the best affected heart emitteth and venteth and which best affect the hearts of others If all Ministers be not able to pray decently enough as to expressions and sutably enough as to the Matter it is because the Governours of the Church take not that due cognisance of Ministers Abilities which they ought to do before they ordain and admit them Or do not so watch over their Churches as they ought to do Let then the Errour be mended by the greater Care and Vigilance of Church-Governours not by the restraining the Gifts of God bestowed on any for the sake of some XII This is the Summe of our Apology which we humbly submit to the Judgment of all that are concerned in the great Affairs of the Church alwaies reserving to our selves further Liberty of adding any further Arguments or Exceptions professing our selves most heartily willing to hear any Arguments of our Brethren either for Forms of Prayer to be universally imposed or for these Forms in particular to which we shall give a reasonable Answer or yield our Cause In the mean time we protest against Dr. Causabons uncharitable Judgment of us That we do it to oppose our Brethren We can we dare do nothing against the Truth but are ready to do all for it But we dare not resist the Light of our Consciences And if it be the Will of God that for our Conscience sake in this thing we be laid aside as useless Vessels we humbly submit to his pleasure who is able of stones to raise up Children to Abraham and we shall pray that our Brethren may have nothing on our behalf charged upon their souls in the day of Christ In the mean time what Dr. Gauden hath said we will further consider in a few words in the following Chapters CHAP. XIII The most of Bishop Gaudens Arguments for the use of the Lyturgy examined and shortly answered Some of them retorted proving Violentum's in Logick I. DR Gauden hath so perplexed his Discourse with words and been so careless of Method that we have found it no easie thing to pick out his Arguments we could have wished that like a Logician and Divine he had proposed his Arguments strictly and followed them closely that we might have judged that his Design was with a strength of Argument in the Spirit of Meekness to convince us over whom he so provocatively insults not meerly to confound his Reader with a non-significant Rhodomantado of Phrase II. So far as we can gather he one while argues for a Lyturgy by and by for this Lyturgy and no other for which he one while argues from the Obligation of the Law another while from the Obligation of the Example of the Primitive Churches or of some Persons now living By and by he urgeth the use of it from Gratitude to his Majesty and from the contrary Evidence of Ingratitude Morosity Peevishness c. in case of Refusal One while he pretends an incomparable excellency in it another while the unblameableness of it Anon he runs a descant upon the Confusions of our Church since it was neglected After this he tels us of the Necessity of it the necessity of a Lyturgy for the planting of any Church this Lyturgy for the defending of our Church against Popery One while he urgeth it that we might be conformable to our Prince another while that we may be Loyal He tels us of the Authority of the Church as to Lyturgy Ceremonies what not He justifies not only the Forms of Prayer but also the Method the Responds yea the Musick the Ceremonies the Catechism in the Common Prayer-Book One while he tels us that men have served God day and night in the use of the Lyturgy yea that he is perswaded St. Paul himself had he been alive would have used it another while he tels us how some Ministers and people have bewailed the neglect of it O quo te teneam mutantem Protea vultu The Dr. had made our work shorter and more methodical if he had told us which of these he accounts arguments in the case and which he looked upon as strains of Rhetorick onely as to which