Scriptures as our boyes and girles do at schoole judging the sense comprehended as soone as the sillables be speld I speak not to such Greater divines to whome I speak must and will acknowledg that the Scriptures be often argumentative passing from one point to another wthout giving any doctrinall notice therof This will make the reader hable to continuall mistakes whiles he conceivs the writer to go still along upon the same subject whereas he is past over to a new or a contrary one As also in the Psalmes canticles Prophecies t is very familiar wth those holy men under one the same number person to act themselvs in one verse God or his church in the other imediately succeeding in one half line to decipher things present in the other conjunctivly connext things onely to come and not appliable to wt was then in hand tho the speech be united The good Eunuch in the Acts of the Apostles was it seems adviced hereof when reading the Prophesy of Isaias he asked Philip of whome doth the Prophet speak this verse he was led as a sheep to the slaughter of himself or of some other man Act. 8.34 Again in the whole course of scriptur a man may meet wth propositions here and there desperst wch being taken apart from the other discours and according to their own bare sound are quite opposite to other formal assertions in the same book nay to the very drift and intention of the Authour as will soon appear unto him that shall make an analysis of the whole book such be the semisentences depraved texts and ill applied autorities used by sectaries For example in that sublime and learned Epistle of S. Paul written to the Romans our people of England do cull out many places for the solesufficiencie of faith against the necessity merit of good works wch is as far from the dift and intention of the Apostle as hell is from heaven and unbeseeming such a Catholick doctour as S. Paul was to write to such a Catholik place as Rome The busines and occasion of the letter was an emulation risen in Rome betweene the converted Jewes and the converted Gentiles those who had been made Christians from Iewes disabling the Gentiles as being ever aliens from God wheras the Iewes converted were first Gods servants under Moses then under Christ and so pleasing God in the whole course of their linage by their good conversation according to the law they used the Gentils on the other side diminisht the Iewes for that themselves by the very light of reason doing wt they could was a law to themselvs and so far pleasd God that he therfore brought them equally wth the Iewes unto the light of Gospell wch the Iewes indeed deservd not sith they had murderd the Messias and Lord of glory This childish emulation arising haply upon some slight word at their meetings proceeded so far that it brake forth into open rancour one against another insomuch that their Priests and Pastours who were amongst them could not well allay it Wherfore S. Paul notice therof being given to him wrote that letter of his to them wherin he layes about him now at the Iewes then at the Gentils confuting their pride and folly and giving them both to understand that neither of them had aught to boast of sith God of his free mercy had equally cald them both to the saving faith of Gospell and made them Christians and therfore that they should all live together in humility peace and brotherly charity This is the scope and subject of that sacred and most Catholik Epistle so wretchedly abused by our pittifull Sectaries who understanding nothing of the Apostles purpose deprave him as they do other scripturs to their own ruin And t is an odde kind of riddle that Catholik divines who do onely understand the scriptures should affirm them to be hard and difficil to understand heretiks who understand them not at all should maintaine them to be easy Again we see that scriptur ever anon takes up figures allegories and parables wherin are inclosed truths of a differing strain to wt the letter relates This will caus an obscurity almost invincible For who can look through a veyl none surely but the church and church men singularly assisted and inspired so S. Paul lookt through the story of Sara and Agar and perceivd the two churches decipherd therin Gal. 4. And this custom is it seems so frequent in Scriptur that the same Apostle gives a caution against too much adhereing to the bark and letter of sacred scriptur averring peremptorily that the letter kills but the spirit or meaning couched under the letter that is life 2. Cor. 3. For that the bare letter of the history too much insisted upon will often lead if not to a contrary errour vet besides the intended truth Besides the same phrase or letter is used in scriptur somtimes one way somtimes another as sin not to stand upon further exemplification is taken commonly for an offens and yet somtimes again for an expiation therof 2. Cor. 5.21 wth is almost contrary Somthings in scriptur are spoken of God according to his essence wch wthout good heed may prejudice the right beleef of a trinity some things of Christ according to his humanity wch may dâ—sh the conceit of the diety in him som things of the church triumphant wch may falsly be applied to the militant somthings of the Messias his second coming wch may be a stumbling block to the truth of his first And contrary All these things have caused errours mistakes and heresies in the world And may still do the like if private judgment have free and uncontroulable dominion over the letter and text of scripture to interpret it at pleasur Lastly sacred scriptur being a masse or body of writing both made up by severall Authours and a miscellan of severall kinds of words histories and lawes under a figure histories and lawes wth out figure or dogmaticall Prophesies of severall stiles or phrases and all of them obscure and parabolicall prudentiall Proverbs close coucht together and so antimetrically sited that rare wits can search into their depth Psalms and canticles so highly elevated above ordinary conceit that for aught I see they may suffice to amuse the understandings of all ages parables not yet fully explicated and dogmaticall Epistles of the good Apostles wch if they be taken so far as may concern pure Christianity wthout their economicall morall and politicall precepts wch be easy and well enough known wthout them are enough to exercise the understandings of mankind Scriptures I say made up of all these severall ingredients argue first that they were never pend to teach us our faith but for a meer help of meditations for exhortation incitement of devotion and piety in people already beleeving Secondly that it would be a lost labour to go cull our beleef out of theÌ„ where no such purpose is intended no method used
of purgatory as well as hell or heaven both contrition and pennance both God and his blessed retinu of Saints and Angels both preaching and Sacrificing shrins altars unctions seaven Sacraments vows Pilgrimages and all whatsoever things the Catholik now beleeves or professes even to the least drop of holy water And if that faith that hath the vertu and power to trample down idolatry to chase away paganisme and triumph over all the power of darknesse be not divine if this good tidings of truth benot the vertue of God and power of God wch is it From this power of converting nations the Prophets of old magnified the word and Gospell of the Messias and S. Paul upon that account cals it the vertu and power of God and yet this efficacy is onely proper and peculiar to the Catholik Religion and non els I shall onely at this time give some generall conjectures in a familiar discours wherby we may be moved to beleeve wt is indeed most cerainly true that popery is no addition of mans at least suspect that the report our reformers give of it sounds like a slander leaving solider and more particular demonstrations for som other time LA. It will not displeas us to hear you speak so that after all is done you will follow our counsell KN. I shall not be obstinat But give me leave dear Lady fully to vent my thoughts For I conceive that a man is not capabl of better counsell till he hath utterly discovered all whatever things detaind him afortime in his sormer purpos wthout any reservation at all For even small reliques of former courses lurking in the mind undiscoverd will still be egging him on to thos waies again after he hath embraced better counsell repine against the advice he hath taken as ruinous and prejudiciall although it were in it self very behoofesull and good So that the mind runs a hasard of lasting disquiet wch enters upon a new cours before the old be totally dislikt VIC I out wth is Sr Harry our wth it fully for so it is written Counsell in the heart of a man is like deep water but a man of understanding will draw it out Prov. 20. MIN. Well Sr let not my argument be forgot wher by I prooud that popery was a human art and therfore in mans power to reform nay t is comendable to cashere falsities KN. You said indeed so but prooud it not not was it ever prooud yet by any tho it be in all mens mouths nor ever will be so long as the world lasts The misery is Sr that men of your opinion that is to say not catholik are all very little verst in our catholik authors especially such as be scholasticall subtile and voluminous love and care I mean wife and children haply not permitting such brain-consuming studies so that when we come to discours wch you t is as equally hard to perswad you as the vulgar of the parish being all of you equally ignorant of the Churches waies and doctrin And yet popery a thing indeed unknown to you must be jeerd at spoke against preacht against and haply writ against too by som pert Gentlman that has never so much as heard a whol cours of philosophy in his life for a whol cours either of philosophy or divinity is a thing now a daies altogether unknown in both our universities and that wth so many impertinencies lies and slanders such vanity fraud and cosenage such insulting babl wresting of Scriptur texts and falsifying of authors that my heart has even startld within me to behold this shamles dealing You say that all your reformations are but the taking away from the purity of Gospell the vain superstructurs of human superstitions commonly cald popery This you say becaus other reformers said so before you taking it one from another since Luthers time and your child will say it from you and so will every bastard in the parish Nor does it avail us any thing by all manner of proofs to assert the divinity and truth of our doctrin Altho you will not read or cannot haply understand those sublim orthodox divins that would fully inform your judgement in this point and convince you of an errour no less notorious than dangerous Yet me thinks there be many things obvious and familiar might render you wary and suspitious of danger in this your asserion wch concerns no les than your eternal salvation As first that you never examend it you know you did not I appeal to your own conscience The Church hath ever beene in possession of this her doctrin and cannot possibly be dispossest but by some evident demonstration wch I am sure the power of man and angel can never effect if you insist on any other autority as sacred scripturs or councells they are as sure hers as any of your proper goods is your own Nor is ther I am confident any one text I say not any one single text of Scriptur if it be taken together wth the whole body scope and intention of the book whence t is drawn that shall urg or proov any thing for any Reformation against the Church this I am able to maintain against the wholl world And yet you ar so far from considering or examining any of thes things that you conclude upon bare hearsay or report wthout either autority or demonstrative reason against the doctrin of the Church wherof she hath been time out of mind in possession and all this slighnes is used in a matter of the highest concernment in the world as if the talk wer onely de lana Caprina Me thinks it should fright you to think that if your assertion should be fals as for aught you know it is then ar you certainly guilty of the accursed sacriledg of diminishing from the word and will of God Again you know and do acknowledg that you have substracted not only some part but the most and greatest parts of that religion was found planted in the land in Harry the eights daies Pray tell me that whol mass or body of practicall doctrin that is now cut off in this year 1655 was it known in King Charls James or Queen Elisabeths days to have been all of it popish additions To this I am sure peopl of severall reformations will give severall answers Independency the last and purest reformation will affirm it but Protestancie the first and oldest apostasy will deny it nor will the Protestant indure that his children should judg him as he condemnd his mother Church or reform his fallibility as he rebeld against the infallibility of his parent And yet the Independent proceeds consequently to those very principles wch the protestant laid for his own revolt namely the fallibility of men the solesufficiency of scripturs and the Spirit of God therin assisting his elect to the discovery of truth Nor can the Independent be blamed for any thing but for striking thes principls further hom than the amphibian protestant did This
unto Baal that list I my people will follow the Lord as it is written in Scriptur For I will never beleev but this scriptur came from God and not from the Pope as you talk Sr Harry from heaven and not from Rome LA. By your favour sweet Mistres I have heard say that S. Marks Gospell was writ-ten in Rome first and originally in Latin I find also in my Bible that some of Pauls Epistls were written and dated from Rome as those he wrote to the Galatians Ephesians Philippians Colossians the second to Timothy that to Philemon and haply that to the Hebrews wch was dated from Italy And the Epistle which was written on purpose to the Romans was assuredly carried to Rome before it was brought hither and must come thence to us So that if they did come from heaven it seems Rome is either heaven it self or in the way twixt us and heaven for they were there first either brought thither or written there and thence cam over into England and other countries But to turn to you Sr. Harry me thinks you ar now too confident and seem to put on a refolution too much opposit to the hopes I have of you and consequently to the hopes you may hav of me for I cannot love an infidel as a friend much les as a husband VIC So indeed Madam it is written Be not unequally yoakt wth unbeleevers for we fellowship hath righteousnes wth unrighteous nes or wt communion hath light wth darknes KN. I begd the favour Madam to utter my mind freely and I think you granted it For t is wth an il affected mind as wth a diseased body neither can be made whol till they they hav purgd themselvs of their ill humours MIN. I am ready Sr to prove from point to point that al we hav in our reformation rejected is the pure inventions of men whereof the principal is that tyrant of Rome that Babylonian Antichrist the Pope VIC The whole Book of Revelations was made against that Beast Let me but read six or seaven Chapters and you will be affrighted I warrant you Now he rises out of the Sea then tumbles out o th clouds then ascends from the deep pit on a fiery red Hors or black hors wth seaven horns or ten horns accompanied wth armed locusts death and dragons KN. We will not descend unto particulars as yet Giv me leav now only to tell you in generall that those rejected parcells of our ancient Catholik faith cannot in any probability be thought human inventions For the Roman Catholik church whence all our religion issued doth own them indifferently wth the rest for integrall parts of the Christianity she at first deliverd And reformers never yet agreed together wt or how many of those parcells wer human and upon that account to be rejected And yet if they had had any certain knowledg either from God or man either by history or grounded reason they would not wth so much disagreement amongst one another hav by degrees cast off som one part some another of that religion they receivd at first altogether upon one the sam motiv of the Revealers infallibility This disagreement of reformers as it cannot but bring themselvs if they would but open their eyes into some suspitiō of uncertainty so to me unto whom uncertain grounds of faith are no grounds at all they ar a sufficient conviction of errour fraud Again these presented popish superstitions and human inventions rejected even by Protestancy were both very many and verry weighty at about the reall presence apostolicall traditions the papes supremacy merit of good works sacrifice of mass sacramentall absolution use of images invocation of Saints seaven sacraments vows shrines priesthood and the like even in a manner the whole body of practical religion Thes if they be additions of man must either be ignorantly taken up by the people or imposed upon them by their prelats As for the peopl if nothing at the beginning had ere been taught them but only to beleev in Christ it is not possible morally speaking that such things as thes should ever com into their heads but t is altogether and absolutly impossible that they should be taken up universally by all people of the earth together and that not by parcells as now they are cast away but the whol body of them together wth such unity and consent as hath been ever found in all Christian kingdoms of the world none of the peopl in any kingdom gain saying their fellows nor Prelats resisting If you say the Prelats imposed them This must be don either by violence or fraud either by strong hand or som insensibl introduction Such main weighty tangible points as thes wch were to be brought not onely into peopls heads but hands and daily and hourly to be practisd can never be thought by any sensibl man to have been insensibly introduced or insensibly receivd or insensibly liked of wth so much prejudice of carnall eas and sensuality I say wth so much prejudice of sensuality as fastings watchings almsdeeds justiciary satisfaction vows of poverty obedience and chastity pennances cloisturs and religious monasteries must needs bring upon the world For the same reason violence offred to the people whether at the same time or severall ages in such businesses of main importance of great weight and of much servitud could never pass so smoothly or be so tamly admitted by all Christian kingdoms wherof some be at deadly feud opposition and war with one another others of a natur more refractory and not so carfull to keep wt they have once receivd som sooner som later converted so that no nois should be made therof no cours taken to resist it no dislike of the doctrin no difformity of beleef He can never beleeve this who knowes either the nature of the world or the disposition of the Catholik Church The world is naturally tumultuous impatient of new yokes apt to insurrections slow to admit a restraint and no les prone to omit neglect and reject wt is servilely imposd upon them especially if it be don wthout just autority and contrary to peopls inclinations The Catholik Church on the other side he that knows her and hath beheld her proceedings from age to age may easily discern how ticklish and scrupulous she is how she startls at the very news of the least innovation or new fangldnes in any of her peopl wch if it do increas how small so ever the matter may be in it self the Catholik body rises up against it will not rest till by a councell it be condemnd This is the motiv of calling so many councells as have been since Christianity first began and of the severity ther used even in som things a man would hardly deem considerable It would even delight a man reading the history of the church in learned Baronius and others to see the Churches industry and watchfulnes on all occasions to prevent new fangldnes the labour
and diligence of her councells their faithfulnes study and exactnesse in examining discussing refuting upstart opinions their uprightnes and wisdom in defining confirming the ancient Catholik doctrin against all innovations according to that general oracle of all Synods Nihil innovandum veterum traditionibus standum and lastly the severe penaltys inflicted by the church upon the authours of innovation if they did not humbly recant their errour so that all things considered aright t is as impossible for human innovations to incorporate wth the body of anicent Catholik faith as for wood or stone to concorporate wth the flesh of an animal You would M◠Dr. save me the labour of perswading this truth any further if you would pleas to call to mind how severall Reformers have taunted at the scrupulosity of papists in this kind yea and inveighed too against their severity telling us that popish councels are so scrupulously severe that they question meddle wth and censur things that ar of little or no concernment at all in Religion and oftims pure Philosophy that they condemne good books written by their owne people and those men of sincerity and conscience one can hardly tell why or wherfore that they so enslave excellent wits that they cannot invent or utter any thing that may rellish never so little of novelty that they judg the faithfull and cast them out of the church even for small supposed deviations that they set up inquisitions to prevent and suppresse liberty of conscience even wth un-Christian cruelty And they tell us severall storys of the Catholik churches scrupulosity in this kind of Heliodor put out of his byshoprick for writing his fained Romance of Virgilius displaced in like sort for teaching that ther were Antipodes an opinion in those daies new and unheard of of a Printer that together wth the losse of his place sufferd a heavy mulct for altering one letter wch had been falsly transcribed in that parable of the woman that lost a drachme and swept her house evertit domum the Printer for evertit made it everrit as it ought to be and forfeited say they his office for his pains It is possible that so much curiosity so much scrupulosity and tendernes should so tamely admit of an insupportable weight of popery wthout any disturbance at all nay wth the liking and universall consent of all men God Catholikes are as tender of their faith as of the apple of their eye so that if a friend or kinsman should once take up any noveltys therin we are scandalised at it rise up against him cannot but show our aversion and dislike even wher natur and custom had united us Nor can any one of our country-men broch an heresy but all sound Catholiks will hate him for it and rise up against him forreiners if it ever com to their ears will detest him much more how ever he may draw some disciples after him such light capritious people as will be led away wth every wind of doctrin and som such there have ever been who forgetfull of God and their own safty will leav the rock of the church wherupon they are built to follow the new fangldnes of a proud instable mind the whole Catholik body still resisting and condemning the insolence This is a quality as evident in good catholiks as that a man hath a nose in his face nor needs it proof How then can it be thought that whol Kingdoms and severall nations should submit to the judgment of one proud deviatour be he never so witty ov eloquent as for example all the Prelats of Spain Italy Germany France East and West-Judys Asia in a word all over the world to one haughty self conceited English Priest deviating from the ancient received faith of his ances tours wthout any resistance dislike or noise It is not a thing by a reasonable man so much as to be imagind Nor hath a prelate in one countrey any more power over the prelates of another than wit and eloquence can afford him wch reason and experience showes can never suffice for the bringing of all mankind into captivity to it self wthout resistance and clamour The chief Priest is the fittest to offer this kind of violence and yet how little he is able to prevail in an opinion contrary to the Churches universall tradition appears sufficiently in the fact of pope Iohn the twenty second who propounding to the consideration of some Christian universities the negativ of the soules fineal beatitud till the generall judgment effected no more but a commotion of the Christian world against himself And the thing is remembred and spoke of to this day Wherfor neither covin nor violence can be of any avail to the introducing of innovations by any person wtsoever contrary to the churches custon and tradition Deal sincerly wth me and take any one point of those many wch English Catheliks hold at this day masse pilgrimages vowes pennance absolution reall presence or wt you will and tell me in wch of the Kings dayes between William the conquerour and Harry the eight it was first taken up here or brought into the land look still further and see your self if the same was not beleevd and practisd by the Saxons even from their first conversion untill K. William the conquerours daies go forward and you shall find that the religion the Saxons receivd from Pope Gregory did both in that point and all others agree wth wt the Brittons had receivd two or three hundred years before This I am sure you shal find if you be not wāting to your self How then can you ever hope to perswade me that all or any of these be innovations wherof you can tell me neither the motiv nor the occasion nor the time they were introduced nor the person by whom nor any event that followed theron T is an argument of desperat wretchednes to cast away all practicall religion upon no other account than the bare affirmation that t is popish superstition and popish inventions No Sr the inventions of men in matters of religion cannot be so universall in men and Kingdoms of differing humours and at enmity oftimes wth one another they cannot be so imutable in so many alterations of states and governments as are and have been in the world they cannot be so permanent being both human and unlawfull for as divinity and essentiall truth are therfor eternall and unchangable becaus such so humanity and falshood must needs decay and moulder away contrariorum contraria est ratio It was a golden observation that of Gamaliel a great doctour of law among the Iewes If this counsell be of men it will come to naught if of God ye cannot frustrat it Act. 5. You see by the alterations that happen in human inventions that t is much for mens conceits or fansies to stand unch angd for one age or two all Reformations are by their continuall vicissitudes convinced to be human counsells and works of men
whereas each parcell of the Catholik faith even those you call popish additions have apparently stood permanent for eleaven hundred years together as all men know or may know if they will but read their own history and by this imutability they are convinced to be raies of that unchangeable essence and truth wch is eternally the same But if we consider the promises of God to conserv his church in all truth and for that end to be ever wth it even to the worlds consummation and that it is now granted on all hands that the church hath not been visibly existent in all times and places but onely in and by the Roman Catholik then will it appear altogether impossible that human inventions and falsitys should ever be able to thrust in to that church or go for truths Nor is it les improbable that the immaculat spous of Christ wise spotles and unblamable should by an adulterous mixturs of errours destroy her self We see that an ordinary secular state be it Monarchy aristocrasy or others will never admit of rules that be quite opposit to those in wch she was first founded wherwth she has been fed and strengthend and by wch she has triumphed and flourisht And if she do it she destroyes her self Wch altho it may happen to worldly states built upon human prudence for to do yet I do no doubt but that your selvs and all men will grant mee that the church of Christ was first raised upon divine principles and setled upon the wisedom of God unto eternall permanence And yet if she should admit of all these mixturs she would cease to be spotles and unblamable and consequently cease to be her self In all things much of ill corrupts the good but Religion if it be not absolutly sincere is not properly religion For ther is somthing of good even in paganisme and mahometisme wch no man calls religion but superstition the denomination following the greater and worser part Reading Mr Chillingworths book not long ago I could not but smile in my self to see that flourishing Hixius Doxius so to play dance and triumph as hee does quite through his book upon a supposall himself never prooved nor any yet for him namely that the Roman church had admitted errours in it self We saith he saw and beheld to our grief that the Roman Church had tainted herself wth errours we calld upon her to reform she would not do it in her whole body we therfore being part of that body provided for our own safty we reformd our selves wch was lawful necessary and just both before God and man This discourse in substance for I have not the book now by me to set down just punctually his words is over and over repeated in his book and is indeed one of the chief ropes wherupon that fanatick funambulo dances Such empty words may beguil others not me dear Lady they prevaile nothing wth me Mr Parson they do not indeed nor ever will Ms Persona LA. Come Sr Harry I hope we shal have you in a better mind to morrow We are now calld in to dinner Let 's go MIN. Let us in Sr Harry ther 's the fittest time and place in my mind to talk of religion I never found that dry discourses wrought any great effect VIC Madam a word wth you now they are gone in I marvell your Lap. would talk of to morrow I never read of any one in my life that was converted to morrow Is it not written to day if you will hear my voyce Ps 95. Had you given me occasion I would have done the deed to dav even my self alone LA. How VIC I would have faln a dropping of texts wth him and kept him close to the word of God I am sure where he has one text for him I have a thousand and where he has ten I have ten thousand according as t is written One of them shall chase a thousand ten of them put ten thousand unto flight Deut. 32. I like not human discours t is tedious to me I have fild al my bible wth dogs ears for good Sr Harries sake and could not come in handsomly to use any of them all this while by reason of his redious oratory Indeed I needed not to have bent down any one leaf at al opening my bible at random I should be sure to meet wth somthing against popery every chapter every verse cries it down Open it Madam and you shall find so much Read The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans Paul a servant of Iesus Christ Rom. 1. Look you there The Epistle not a legend of Paul not of Peter the Apostle not the Pope to the Romans not to the Romish papish or popish he would never write to them I warrant him O the father I 'am even as full of scriptur as a new layd egge as they say I could confute Sr Harry before dinner com up yet as near as it is LA. Sr Harry is not here now VIC Altho he be not Well Madam ther coms not a dish to the table but I le have a text for it from the very first dish of porredg to the apples and chees LA. Well well VIC Madam I could wthout the help of scriptur have mentiond twenty innovations that Papists have made in the world had I been incouraged to speak LA. What I prithee VIC The sect of Quakers lately brought up here in England is I think an innovation in religion And this was instituted by two fryars and two Iesuyts as Mr Prinne witnesseth in a book of his lately set forth for that very purpos For thou Mr Prinne be said to be a man of an ill hearing yet is that defect recompensed by a fair length of language his text is so orthodox that the Ministers have preacht upon it all England over and illustrated it by pretty similitudes as of those nine and thirty papists that flew over out of Lincoln shire into Norfolk amongst a flock of wild gees to pick up their corn for wch crime their houses wer ransackt of seaven other papishes that taught children to speak wth their elbowes against wch innovation of nature our Ministers inveighed bitterly in their pulpets of three more papists that walkt in the ayr all over the citty of London passing from steeple to steeple at a step and pist fire as they went upon the top of houses wch our Ministers wer stark mad at preacht violently against thē out of the Revelations saying that if they were not rooted out of the land they would sindg al their caps fire their hayry scalps as they stood in their pulpets Many other pretty remembrances they had wch have been recorded by Mr Pyn and Prinne Mr Iohn an okes Will stiles wherat people beat their breasts shaked their heads cryed Out upon these wicked papishes t is pitty they are suffred to live LA. I beleev papists will not own these things VIC They must own them whether they
either keep me still from you or split me wth you LA. Wt shall we do wth you Sr Harry sith you decline scripture wch as it is the purest so t is the easiest way for your conversion VIC Shall I tell you he wil even go out of his way as Balam and his ass did I le show you the story as t is written in 22 chapter of numbers t is a very pretty one Ther you wil see how the ass confuted his rider and said unto him Am not I thine ass so prettily Read here from the 22 vers to the 36. If you go not in the right way Sr Harry as we would have you be sure you shall be checkt by a very ass When any such thing happens you may take it for a certaine sign that you ar out of your way KN. Scriptur is a good instrument to drawn men from paganisme to Christianity but no fit means to divert us from Catholik Religion to heresy That heavenly seed wch makes sons of God can never make children of perdition except it self be mischievously corrupted And therfore I decline it not at all but admit allow and embrace it as containeing that irrefragable doctrine wch eminent persons in the church of God penned wch industrious and religious persons in the same Catholik church coppied transcribed wth their owne hands above a thousand years together before printing was invented to keep that sacred letter alive and lastly wch by the Catholik body of the said Church hath beene authenticated and canonised and therfore it must needs be pure and holy being madâ— conserud and ratified by holy Church But its facility and easinesse that I do not so easily conceive or agree unto especially if you separate it from the Church whose book it is The mind and meaning of any writing no man can understand so well as the Authour no man can interpret aright contrary to the Authour no man where it is obscure and uncouth may peremptorily interpret wthout the Authour MIN. You will soon grant it to be easy if you consider that t is called a light to the understanding Wt thing is there more apparent than light And therfore t is said in the Ephesians if our Gospell be hid t is hid to them that are lost VIC Sweet heart you are mistaken that sayeing is not in the Ephesians but Corinthians 2. Ep. and the 4. c. LA. T is no matter Mr person so we find out your riddle tho it be by plowing wth your heyfer according to the saying of Samson Iud. 14. VIC I told you even now Madam that the ass will rebuk his rider when he goes astray KN. A light if it be set behind us or under a bushell or to an eye ill affected inlightens not and a prejudiced mind is a veyld understanding where light cannot enter I must say more he that goes out of the Church puts out his own eyes and he that never enterd in never had any but gropes in darknes Light is come into the world saith our Lord but men love darknes more than light Jo. 1. namely because they shut their eyes against it and no marvell that unto such the Gospell should be hid Catholikes all of them have indeed the whole Gospell by heart and comprehendit sufficiently for the life and spirit of it yet still the bark and letter of it hath obscurity enough wch is opend and manifested as far as is needfull upon occasion by the lips of priests wch preserve knowledg No man understands the mind of man but the spirit that is in man nor the meaning of scriptures can any comprehend but the spirit of that Catholik body whose the scriptures be For these be imediatly the word and doctrin of the Church and therfore called the Word of God because that Catholik body from whence it issued is animated by the spirit of Jesus Christ her naturall head who is God blessed for ever and the particular penmen therof being members of the sayd church were peculiarly illustrated by that spirit unto such an effect So then the word of God is a light and enlightens good Catholiks it enlightens not others that remain blinded in infidelity and separated from that holy mysticall body of Christ and yet t is a light still t is hid to them that are lost People that live in a family colledg or corporation by the daily sight and practis of things to be don therin do fully comprehend all that is to be said or acted there But others who be out of those societys shall never by bare reading of books written of such emploiments so long as themselves stay out attain to any satisfactory light therof but remain pusled in a wood of dark words and either mistake or not apprehend the reality and truth of things So our people wthin the Church see distinctly and clearly the truths of God in whose practis they are daily conversant so that words and writtings are not necessary unto such as be in a continuall exercise of their trade but sectaries paymins al infidels who be aliens and strangers to this Society out of the family altho they should look upon their book of statutes scripturs or laws yet will they still be pusling about words and never clearly understand the secrets of the profession One artist or tradesman knows more by heart and practise than the whole world besides that is out of that body or not conversant in the society can ever attain unto by reading A man may demonstrat by Philosophicall reason that light it self enlightens not but by reflexion no more do the word and scripturs except they reflect upon us from the bosom of the Catholik body wch actuats them in their operation If you would seriously ponder these few words you should quickly perceive unto whom the scriptures be obscure and unto whome they be easy and how they be easy to Catholiks for the practise life and meaning of them tho the letter may still keep its obscurity as children of a family may clearly understand all the whol affaires and businesses of the house tho if books should be written therof they might not so easily understand the letter of those books Yet these have great advantage in the understanding of such books abov those who are not coversant in the affairs being aliens and strangers to the family For t is easier by the knowledg perfect comprehension of things to understand words that be written of them than by reading of words to perceiv things we are altogether unexperienced in But to speak abstractively of the letter of Scriptur wthout reference unto persons as if the case were that neither you nor I ever knew any thing of the Christian religion but what we get out of the Bible or new Testament put now into our hands Could either of us or all of us together see clearly in this letter the whole state of the Catholick Church or without obscurity discern wt is to be
for the worlds conversion carried any written Gospell at all wth them wch might be made by themselves much less is it to be thought that they staied to write out theirs having their own breasts so well fraught wth all that and far more than they found ther written especially considering that two of the Evangelists were but their pupills and disciples Nay before those Gospels were written out and completed especially that of S. John the Church of God was spread up and down the world and flourisht in all the duties of Christianity By wch it may appear that even the written Gospell is neither it self necessary to the being of the Church nor the reading or expounding of a text the essentiall work of Christianity As for the Epistles wch be the other part of the new Testament written by S. Paul and others These t is well enough known were pend a long while after the Church of God was perfectly formd and grown up in most parts of the known world in particular after those Churches of Rome Corinth Ephesus Galatia Thessalonica and the rest unto whom they are addrest were perfected in all the essentialls of Christian faith and they were occasiond merely accidentally upon the creeping in of some disorders and errours in those places contrary to the tradition of faith they had received as may soon appear to him that reads and understands the tenour of those spirituall Epistles So then the Church is antecedent to her Scriptur and altogether independant theron either for her being or profession helps of memory as all these writings be do presuppose both the memory and the things to be remembred before those helps were brought to light And so the reading of these Scriptures or hearing them expounded can no wise be the essentiall work of Christian religion or the totall exercise therof but somthing that is altogether independent of them more ancient than they be and that is more intrinsecally a worship homage adoration and service of the most high God than hearing or looking upon words and syllables can be I make no doubt but the whol Scriptur or writing of the new Testament both Epistles and Gospells was merely casuall and accidentall For I find it long ago foretold by the Prophets that the law and government of the Messias should in this differ from the Law of Moses that Moses Law was all committed to paper but the doctrin of Iesus should be writ in the heart and entrailes of his Church You may see one place in the Prophet Ieremy c. 31.33 wch the Apostle in his Epistle to the Hebrewes applies unto Christ our Lords dayes Heb. 10.16 and S. Paul doth not obscurely allude unto it in one of his letters he wrote to Corinth c. 3.3 Indeed to imprint in the churches breast a law from wch she should never deviat is in my judgment a greater argument of divinity than any written Gospell could afford The things wch Solon Numa Lycurgus Draco and other such like men contrived and dictated for the good of their common wealths did much commend their gravity vigilance and wisedome and elevated them above other men not above manhood Moses himself the most profound judicious Lawmaker the world ever had by the excellency of his written Laws hath merited the title of a divine and sacred legislatour but he is known to be a man by his hand-writing and the paper he wrote on He is a God that writes on the velin of the heart characters indelible unto eternity The Law of Christ onely is written not wth ink but wth the spirit of the living God not in tables of stone but in fleshly tables of the heart I do also verily think that the religion wch the Son of God deliverd to his church was neither commanded by him to be written nor yet ever intended either by the Euangelists or other of those primitiv writers to be totally set down under the notion of a rule of faith altho so much as ther is of it drawn principally for the use of devotion and charity be a rule of faith also What the occasion might be that moved the four Euangelists to write their compendious Gospells by the little learning I have I could never yet assuredly gather altho I remember I have read somthing thereof in a learned latin book made by a friend of mine called Systema fidei put forth some few years ago wherein be very many things of excellent learning worthy of the Authour but I have not now the book at hand Wt occasion moved S. Paul to write his Epistles unto Rome Corinth and other places is manifest enough and I shall afterward declare it when I shall come to discover the religion of the Apostles and Euangelists and make it appear that they were all papists and of the very self same religion Catholiks be of at this day All this put together that Christ himself neither wrote any thing nor comanded any thing to be written yea gave notice that he would use his speciall prerogative of legislatourship and write his law in hearts promising to animate the body of his Church wth his own spirit wch should lead them into all truth and that the church was disperst over the earth before any Christian writting was made wch was afterwards drawn to confirm and strengthen the faith and devotion it found already planted All this being true it follows apparently that hearing or reading or preaching upon a text is not the great capitall work of Christian Religion Indeed t is childishnes to think that God unto whom all prostration adoration all homage service and worship both of the outward inward man is more than due should be sufficiently served wth a little labour of the lips or ears when a man thinks good so to do Preaching is indeed necessarily antecedent to Christian faith yet it onely disposes unto furrher actions as may easily appear both by autority of Scriptures wch exclaime bitterly against such as hear and go no further and also by the very natur of hearing and all kind of exhortation wch ever tends to somthing besides it self For who ever heard onely to hear and no further who but our mad reformers ever preacht onely to be heard And how can speaking on one side and hearing on the other complete the whol duty of man to his God as if one were nothing but tongue and ear or had receivd nothing from him but those two organs Tell me Madam ingenuously Do not you think you have sufficiently done your duty to God if you go but forth once a Sunday to hear a Sermon and if you read a chapter or two in a week day this is nothing else in effect altho by your favour you do not think you self bound under sin to either but if you like the weather or the parson pleases or your clothes be neat and handsom then you will go forth to church if not you will stay at home if you find your self
and Son Abaylardus again that power was not appropriated but proper to the Father wisedom to the Son and bounty to the Holy Spirit The Manichees contended that the devill is evill by his owne natur and not made so by his fall Origen that the devills should at length be deliverd from hell Hermannus Risswick in the year 1512. held wth much stiffnesse that neither the good Angels nor bad were created of God The church of God resisted all these could she do otherwise Others denied the creation of the soul imediatly by God Seleucus affirming that it is made by Angels of spirit and fire Tertullian that the soul of the Son is made by the soul of his Father as his body by his body The Gnosticks on the other side said it was made of the substance of God himself wch was afterwards defended by the Manichees the wild ofspring of Manes a Persian who affirmd himself to be both Christ the Paraclet too sent out his twelv Disciples about the world to spread abroad his haeretical dogmes who were much multiplied in the time of pape Foelix Tertullian thought that the souls of wicked men were after death turned into devills wch surely is an errour if he speak of a physical and not of a morall turning The Arabians on the other side affirmed that all souls quite perish wth their body wch atheism was also defended by the above named Rissnick the Hollander The Albigenses in the time of Pope Jnnocent 3. averd according to Pythagoras his doctrin that souls pas from one body to another Origen that they were created before the body and imprisond therin for some offence committed wch opinion is assuredly against the common judgment of Catholiks The Gnostiks that all bruit beasts were maisters of understanding and reason The church if she had desired to have done it would have found somthing to do to comply wth all these men Seleucus and Hermias would have the matter wherof the world was made to be coeternall wth God and not created Foelix a Manichean affirmd the same of the Earth Others of Water The Albanenses said that the world should never end Simon Magus as also the Gnosticks Manichees said that the world was made of the ill God and not by the good one and that corporall creatures and mans body were therfore evill in themselves and in their own substance Florinus in the time of Pope Eleutherius taught that God whom he acknowledgd to be both one good did notwthstāding evill things wth a positiv purpos of il as to harden mens hearts deceiv them Coluthius an Egiptian on the other side denied God to inflict so much as the evill of punishment Tatianus in the time of Pope Julius the first affirmed that Adam and Eve were for their sin perpetually damned And yet notwthstanding wisdom is said to have brought him who was first formed and father of the world out of his sin Sap. 10. Origen that Adam lost by sin the image of God wch was an errour surely if he spake properly of his image that is founded in natur and not of similitud founded in grace and blessednes Pelagius in the time of Honorius and Theodosius the younger avouched that Adam died not through demerit of his fault but condition of natur and so had died although he had not find The Armenians inhabitants of Asia betwixt Taurus and Caucasus after their separation from the Catholik church wch happend as I remember upon the councell of Chalcedon wherein Eutiches Abbot and Dioscorus Byshop of Constantinople were condemnd whos conciliary acts the Armenians would not receiv but made themselvs a primat of their own they fell into many errours amongst wch one was that Adam and Eve if they had not sind had never ingendred children and therfore they held marriage to be unlawful Philaster mentions others who maintained that Adam and Eve before they had sinned were blind Thes be blind guids for the church of Christ to follow How many wayes should she turn to trace all these mens steps In a a word not to insist longer upon the old Testament S. Austin and S. Epiphanius in their Books of Heresys mention som who taught that Melchisedeck was not a pure man but som diuine vertu or Christ himself T is easy to say any thing of every thing VIC O the father what a number of pretty opinions be here Truly I find in my heart to hold som of them They were most witty interpreters of Scriptur Pray go on sweet Sr Harry this is the best discours you ever made yet go on it delights me exceedingly according as it is written Thy lips drop as the honey comb Cant. 4. The more you speak the more my appetit encreases MIN. Pray Sr let us break this discours wch I was not aware of and com to matter I have furnisht my self wthall for your conversion This talk corrupts my wife VIC Earth to earth and ashes to ashes Pray be content let me be corrupted thē Thou fool that wch thou sowest is not quickend except it dye Look in the 15. c. of the Corinthians and expound me that place And then tell me first if in right Logick corruption go not before generation tell me secondly who is that same Thou fool LA. I could willingly have Sr Harry to go on in this his speech for it is not altogether unprofitable to hear it and I conceiv not dangerous to us For nothing I hope can hurt such as be well confirmd in their religion VIC No forsooth for it is written of protestants Independents If they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them Mar. 16. KN. The errours and wild opinions that have rose in Christianity about the particulars of the new Testament have been so many and various in severall ages of the church that it is hard to bring them into method Our Doctours set them down in every age as they rose naming wth them the Catholik divines who wrote against them the councels that condemnd them the time they lasted and the mischiefs they did in the world I shall endeavour as wel as I may to reduce them all according to my forementiond method unto three sorts errours namely against persons places and actions of Christian faith Persons as Christ our Lord the blessed Virgin Mary S. John the Saints Pope Councells c. As concerning Christ our Lord I. Ebion about the time of Pape Cletus maintained that Christ our Lord was but pure man against whom S. John intreated by the Byshops and Priests of Asia wrote his Gospell Wth Ebion joind Cerinthus and Carpocrates and after them Theodotus of Bizantium who being under persecution denied Christ also Paulus Samosatenus in Syria under Pape Victor wth his disciple Photinus II. Others on the other side denyd him to hav any human natur at all as Cerdon in the time Pape Higin and the Proclianites people of Galatia who taught that Christ came not in flesh III. Apelles
pleasur by wth drawing tithes or tribut or otherwayes sess 8. against his 27. art Indeed the opinion is a way to all rebellion and disorder in church and state XVI Finally that no degree may scape the Waldenses and Luther inveighed bitterly against religious orders as the invention of the devill affirming that the founders of them were damnd for it if they repented not and that none could be saved in them wch desperate madness was censurd also in the said councell of Constance Sess 8. And strongly confuted by Chlitoveus Roffensis Albertus Thomas Waldensis a Carmelit and before them by S. Thomas and S. Chrysostome XVII To prevent all danger on any hand for any heresy or disorder the Waldenses spread abroad that no judg can condemn any man to punishment But they either forgat or simple souls never knew that S. Paul saith if ye do evill fear for the magistrat bears not the Sword in vain XVIII There were others who taught that no hereticks were to be punisht but left to Gods judgment 19. The Rhetorii saies Philaster affirmed that al hereticks thought aright XX. Nicolaus Eimericus reports of others in the time of Pape Gregory the eleaventh who affirmed that any one that commits a mortall sin is an heretick XXI S. Austin testifies of the hereticks called Ophitae that they worshipt the Serpent that beguiled Eve and the Caiani respected Judas for a Saint for that he was cause of our redemption These be some extravagant opinions of sectarys concerning severall persons in the church kings and subjects religious men clargy men priests students byshops the Senate of prelates popes Saints Christ and what not so sensles so wild so inconsistent so contradictory that the wisedom and integrity of the Church of God were not able to suffer much lesse approve them being contrary many of them to common honesty others to right reason all of them to Christian faith How shall the immaculate spous comply heaven and hell may sooner come together I think VIC T is a marvellous thing Sr Harry you can have all thes opinions in your head and hold none of them What difference is ther betwixt having and holding If I should ever think of them they would mingle wth my creed I can beleev any thing if it be not popery and take all that coms as I did my Husband to have and to hold for better and for wors as it is written MIN. Com you speak like one of the foolish women VIC How did you speak when you took me wth the very same words and said wth a blith and bucksom countenance I Iohn You have been a year or two at a pagan university where you learnt to worship Judas for a Saint you are so proud upon it deny if you dare that I understand the bible wch is the highest book in the world wherin then can you exceed mee T is true you are a parson but is it not written I have more understanding than my teachers Psa 119.99 You would fain com in wth your few texts against Sr Harry that you have been scribling out of a concordance being out of all patience that his Discours keeps you back Pray be content t is as pleasing to me to hear talk of these men as of my owne father and mother that begat mee expect your kue good sweet Husband Your hour is not yet come as t is written LA. T is agreed upon Sr Harry that you proceed in your discours Mr Doctour in the end will I beleev make use of it all to his owne advantage KN. I have declared som severall odd conceptions of men concerning sundry persons in the church Others there be concerning places as the temple or place of worship purgatory after life hell and heaven wch opinions maintained wth pertinacy caused the authours thereof to be cast out of the Catholik body of Gods church wherin they had been members I. Eustachius derided all Saints temples The Waldenses afterward would have all churches taken away as too much straitning the majesty of God whose temple is the wide world The Pseudapostoli added that a consecrated church is no more worth than a swine sty as also Zisca the German who wth his companions whom he called Taborites from mount Tabor where Christ was transfigured spoild and defaced all holy places they came neare The councell of Gangres defined against this madnesse c. 5. decret II. The same Waldenses would not endure that time should be spent in saying the canonicall hours in the church and their ape Wicleph gave his reasō for it becaus forsooth it is not fit that Christians should be tied to prayer at any time This reason if it wer worth any thing would destroy the Sabboth But all singing in the church they scofft at as nois made to Baal The Arrians before them disprooud singing in Catholik churches but their reason was becaus of so many Hymns and anthems made in the honour of Christ against their impious opinion Against al thes is the councel of Gangres c. 30. decret III. That all images are to be taken out of churches was stifly maintained both by the said Waldenses and their squire Wicleph For wch heresy long before their time Leo the third emperour in Constantinople was excomunicated by Pape Gregory the third yet notwthstanding the emperour Constantin the fift and emperour Leo the fourth his son adhered still to it but after his death Irene his wife ruling the empire in the name of the Infant Constantin the sixt obtained the second Nicen counsell to be called where by three hundred and fifty Byshops the heresy was condemnd though Constantin the sixt being of age would not submit to the councell wch was one of the mainest causes of the dislike and grudg between the Latin Greek emperours The errour was afterward condemnd in the councell of Frankford under pape Adrian the first IV. The adoration given in Catholik temples unto the cross and crucifix the above named Iohn Wicleph an english Priest who lived about the yeare 1380. would by all means have taken away But Thomas Waldensis his country man almost contemporary still confuted him and his blind Lugdunian guides who were also judgd condemnd by all the Prelats in Constance V. There also was censurd another errour of theirs that preaching in temples should be lawfull for any although prohibited by superiours VI. The said Wicleph denied tiths to be due to Priests serving at the Altar preaching and praysing God wch errour was also condemnd in the 18 place at Constance But this opinion he had from the Pseudapostoli whose ringleader was Gerardus Sagarellus of Parma who was burnt in the yeare 1260. VII Both the Waldenses and Wiclevits blasphemd all benedictions of water candls palms altars challices churches forgetting or not beleeving that every creature is sanctified by the Word of God and Prayer 1. Tim. 4. VIII No less peremptory was Wicleph Huss and Luther against excomunications from church and altar inflicted on
observation wch I noted at times in my own privat reading never before taken notice of by any LA. So much the better for new things do excite attention VIC First you know that the Papish church sends forth her Priests and Religious to reduce nations from paganism and conveigh their faith up and down the World contrary to expres Scriptur Hast thou faith have it to thy self Rom. 14.21 II. Christ sayeth When thou dost fast anoint thy head wash thy face Math. 6.17 Papists never observe this nor do they think themselves bound in Lent ember other fasting days to put painting or black patches on otheir face to curl and powder their hayr anoint their head with jessamy butter spiknard other sweet ointments but the Gospell is neglected by them wthout any fear or conscience at all III. They hold that no body should forsake their religion directly contrary to Gods will The Spirit saith expresly that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith 1. Tim. 4.1 God sayes some shal they say they shall not and by their good will they would let no body do it IV. They hold that the virgin Mary was taken up soul and body into heaven and would perswade us we shall be so too yet truth says that flesh and blood cannot in herit the Kingdom of heaven 1. Co. 15. V. They will tell you punctually on what day of the month Easter Christmas or any holiday happens Of such t is written Ye observ days and months and times and years I am afraid of you least I have bestowed labour in vain Gal. 4.10 VI. Such of them as be strong and healthy fast in Lent if any be sickly he eats flesh contrary to wt is writtē He that is weak let him eat herbs Ro. 14.2 VII T is written If thine enemy hunger feed him if he thirst give him drink Rom. 12.20 here the Papists commit two errours first they hold that a man may give both meat and drink to one that is hungry secondly they will do this not onely to their enemyes but neighbours and friends VIII They bring the Virgin Marys Pictur into the church wth a child in her arms tho they cannot but know that she stiles herself the handmayd of the Lord and t is written Cast out the Bondwoman her son Gal. 4.30 IX Papists will have the church forsooth to teach us our Religion and faith But it is written Wo unto him that saith unto the wood Awake and to the dumb stone Arise it shall teach Hab. 2.19 Is the church any thing but wood and stone T is flat idolatry thus to worship wood and stone and the works of mens hands Wo unto them for it X. They teach that righteousnes pleases God sin displeases wher as indeed they are both equally reprovable When the comforter is come he will reprove the world of sin and of righteousnes Io. 16.8 XI You know Madam we sit in our pews all service and Sermon time wthout uttering word nor can any discern our lips to stir all the while but the Papist women as soon as they enter their churches down they fal on their knees so long as they remain there patter forth prayers you may see hundreds of their lips moving together somtimes you may hear them cry Jesu Jesu I dare swear they speak in the church their religion teaches them to do it contrary to what is written It is a shame for women to speak in the church Cor. 14.34 XII They hold that both prodigality covetousnes in respect of our own goods fornicatiō leache ry in regard of our own bodys is unlawfull contrary to expres Scriptur Is it not lawful for me to do what I will wth mine own Mat. 20.15 XII They hold that they abstain from all kind of flesh in Lēt yet they eat fish c. not understāding the Scriptur Ther is one kind of flesh of men another of beasts another of fishes another of birds Co. 15.39 VIC XIII LA. Nay thirteenthly fourteenthly be words too long we have not time to proceed sweet mistres you hear I am cald VIC Many are called but few ar chosen saith the Scriptur Give me leav but to say over my nine and thirty articles LA. They will serv for good discours at table how come they to be so many VIC Articles against popery can never be more or les than nine and thirty K. James could have made his up to forty if he had pleasd but they must be no more than nine and thirty nor yet no les according as t is written Of the Iewes receivd I forty stripes save one 2. Cor. 11.24 LA. You are so witty VIC A parsons wise must needs be witty as t is written He that walks wth a wise man shall be wise Prov. 13.20 It should be she that walks but the Scriptur is compendious and somtimes leavs out a letter nay somtimes a whol syllable as in that saying God made man upright Eccl. 7.29 Ther man is set for woman for t is wel enough known that Adam had a stitch in his side and so went up and down stooping LA. Let us carry in your nine and thirty articles to the table VIC For S. Harry now and then to bite upon according as t is written man livs not by bread alone LA. Enough enough VIC So indeed it is written Luc. 22.38 Satis est It is enough FINIS
one another whence is it that we all conspire to hate condemn and rail against the Catholik Church having as much cause to inveigh against one another and let her alone as to rail against her alone and applaud one another This is a shrewd sign we ar all rebels to that one Church and hav no truth amongst our selvs For one truth is opposit to twenty falshoods and these falshoods however they be contrary to one another that one primary truth still stands against them all Catilin and Cethegus and the other conspiratours against Rome their mother City could fall out one amongst another tho they jointly resisted her and she as indifferently confronted them all Besids these reformers must needs be liars all of them if we may beleeve any of them For as they did most vehemently inveigh against that part of popery wch themselves rejected so did they tooth and nail defend the purity of that portion they still retaind wch by the succeeding reformers was deeply censurd and condemnd And so from the very first to the last they still condemned one another for wt they retaind as the Church of God condemnd them all for wt they rejected Who shall unfold this riddle or tell me in wch reformation the truth lies Surely in non of them if by the mouth of two witnesses a truth may be established for ther is ever the Catholik Church and one reformation against the judgment of any other reformation every sect hath still the Church against her for one and some other sect if not all other reformations besides Ar all thes men sent from God for one and the same thing yet all fail in doing it and al condemnd by one another in the deed Still wt any one of them casts away is popery and what he keeps is the sincere word and will of God tho not only the Church that censurs them all together but even all other reformations say the contrary So that if we put all judgments together ther will result thus much That the Catholik on the one side all sectaries of severall opinions on the other they be all Papists and differ but secundum magis minus So that the Roman is a Catholik Papist and all the rest be heretick Papists but Papists all For every sect is condemnd by his fellowes of some popery and the Church as the source of all And indeed all sects do retain som thing more or les of that religion and faith wch our land received at first from the pape and wtsoever positive doctrin they still keep they had it onginally from him At least they keep all of them the Bible eyther whol or in part wch is the great book of the pope wch he ever sends wth his missioners since he orderd and canonised it to any nations conversion as conformable to the great rule of Christian faith wch is tradition And consequently if the Papist be a child of Antichrist all sectaries are no other so far as they be Christian or have any thing of Christianity amongst them onely wth this difference that the mark of the beast if he be a beast is lesse in som than it is in others but t is in the for heads of all so many as be baptised and beleeve in Christ by his means and missioners and by the Sacraments and precepts they had originally from him VIC The Lord shield us from the fiend of darknesse the pope upon my forehead the Bible the popes and all we Papishes confute him husband some way or other if this be true hee l not fear texts at all LA. S. Harry you have brought things about very strangly Can you think ever to perswade us that we have any thing of popery in us KN. Assuredly you have so much as is not yet clipt of by reformation be it more or les And this discours I have faln upon insensibly to mitigat the strang rancour against Catholik religiō wch people conceiv by contagion of custome and not any true knowledg they have thereof and the pleasing opinion each one fosters of the reformation himself is part of Take the four generall opinions that be now in England the Catholick the Protestant Presbyterian and independent Consid er seriously and you shall find that as they be antecedent in time so still the succeeding is but a deficiencie from the foregoer and the last the greatest negation of the positions laid by the first yet still what he holds positively he hath it from him and the first wch is the Catholik had all his whole positive faith from the Pope as himself professes and our own histories witnesse part whereof was cut of by the Protestant as the Presbyterian after him took away some things wch the Protestant still retaind and the Independent others wch the Presbyterian kept He is very ignorant in history that discerns not by his reading how the Catholik now existent in England retains universally all the points of faith wch were brought hither into England at its conversion from paganisme by S. Austin and other good children of blessed S. Bennet sent hither to that purpose by Pope Gregory eleaven hundred years ago concerning priests altars sacrifices the reall presence merit of good works consecrations pennances purgatory lents pilgrimages popes supremacy and the rest to the least iota of wt they then received Nor hath he any parcell of faith either over or under wt he received then so that the Catholik is a papist in print and a legitimat child of that venerable pastour A thousand years after the Saxes or English-mens conversion and the unanimous profession of the Catholik faith all that while in an unluky ho wt rises Luther who having been himself born and and bred up in the bosome of the Church through the instigation of Satan and his two instruments pride and lust apostatised from the Church and made a reformation as he called it wherunto the worst of people at first adhered altho now both wise and honest minded people go along wth it not so much by their own choise as unfortunate custome This protestancy took away at once almost three parts of the Churches practicall doctrin retaining the speculative Within the compasse of ten years it had run into severall divisions or subreformations in Germany Holland Switzerland and Geneva Upon Harry the eights schism and afterward these people of severall Reformations cam flocking over into England by whos severall directions to pleas all parties was made up that miscellan of the English protestancy by rejection of severall points of the Catholik faith then in our land some according to Luther others according to Calvin Swinglius the rest together wth an establishment of an apish prelacy in stead of the Catholik one wch had beene overthrown for the security of the state and of the fond Church they had then set up the other few remainds of our Catholik faith now wholly dismembred yet standing as the base of this
humane superstructur Under this Protestant prelacy differing from all other reformations in the world bred the Puritan who was so chekt kept under all the raigne of K. Iames that when he came to be teemd forth by strength of natur and multitud of seed he was born double and came two forth together the younger brother supplanting the elder and thrusting himself into his place even in that instant that the elder had eat himself a passage through his Protestant mothers bowells This was the Presbyterian and Jndependent both rejecting somthing of that had been conveyed to them by the Protestant but the Independent more than the other But what either of them kept he received it by the Protestant as the Protestant had done from the Catholik the sole universall Professour of the whol Christian faith Now then the whol body of Christian faith and doctrin kept by the Catholik as it was wholly receivd at first from the pope the generall father of the Christian church so must it needs be all indifferently Papisticall upon that account and not that part onely wch a Reformer dislikes and calls so and consequently every parcell therof retaind by any Reformer is as properly Papisticall as wt he rejects and altho he cals it not so yet t is so stiled by another Reformer who likes not to retain it as he does and for no other reason but because as it issued so is it maintaind and practised by the popish Church wch reason holds good as well in him that likes it as him thy likes it not By this rule it will follow irrefragably that all the four professours be papists as also be all others who professe Christianity upon the face of the whole earth either in whole or part aswell those that keep their whole faith entire and respect the Pape as they that retain onely some part and defy him for ingratitud and pride can exempt no man from the denominatiō so long as he still beleeves or practises any part of that Christianity has been handed to him from the Pope and Popish Church as all men in England I am sure do and to avoid all further cavill t is solely of them I now speak If four or five generations of men arising from one stock should be all of them shorter by the head one than another the first generation completely resembling the father the second les by the head than he and the third yet less by the head than the former his imediate progenitour so to the last in like manner It would be ridiculous for the last descendents because they want much of the person statur of the first originall or stock to deny that they have therfore any thing of him or from him speaking against those severall inches they have not at the same time to magnifie the few inches wch they have and blaspheme him from whence they have received them And yet this is directly the case of all reformers and reformations to boast of the Christianity they keep and villify that part they reject as superstitious and popish whereas both wt they reject and wt they keep did descend equally and indifferently from the Popish or Catholick Church And if our English sectaries should render up to the Pope and Popish Church all they have had from her I do not know any one positiv point of Christianity speculativ or practicall they should have remaining except that harmonious song of mellifluous Robin red breast Preserv us Lord. Thus much may suffice to show that all England be Papists some Catholick Papists other heretick Papists but Papists all Sith every part of Christian faith brought altogether in one entire body of doctrine by a messenger of Pope Gregory to the English at our conversion from paganisme was equally papisticall equally received in the Catholik church and with the like indifferency communicated to our land from her Head and Pastour And the having of it more or less maks som less papists than others but not no papists Even as in musick if a sem breef be a full time a minnom tho it be but half so much is a notion of time so is likwis a crotchet tho it be but half a minnom and a quaver wch is but half a crotchet so that a minnom is half a sem breef a crochet the fourth part and a quaver tho it be but the eight part yet a part it is and nothing els Even so be thes four severall religions in England every one of them either complet popery or part of it the Catholick as it were a seem breef the protestant a minnom the Presbyterian a a crochet and the Independent a quaver And truly to keep one piece of popery and reject others deliverd by the same hands and upon the very selfsame grounds seems to me neither a safe cours nor yet a reasonabl proceeding For the whol stream of Christian doctrin was deliverd unto us as issuing indifferently from a divin originall and if this report be true no man may tampar or meddl at all in that sacred issue of divin will as I have already shown if fals t is all equally to be rejected and paganism or atheism to succeed in its place But our reformers will have that to be popery or human wch any of them rejects wthout ever rendring a reason therof to satisfy any moderat and indifferent man sith what ever they say against any one thing may be as well applied to any other Nor is religion like philosophy to be held by the propability it carrys in our understanding for then it wer not faith but reason nor should our understandings be otherwis captivated to divin revelations that to human positions or subjected to God more than to man And yet again if probability should carry it a wise judicious man that is unprejudiced in his judgment shall I am comfident find more difficulty to beleev the very history of the Bible than any articl of the Catholik religion rejected by reformers and as much reason to keep all articles as any But sith reformers will have that popery wch any of them rejects that he retains pure Gospell I for my part grant both But then I make no difference at all betwixt popery and pure Gospell nay the Gospell is so far pure as it is conformable to popery the traditionall doctrin of the Catholik church wch is the rule and square of all preachings Writings Letters Sermons Epistls Gospell andall And therfor that any reformation in religion is a purification of the Gospell from popery taken in your sens that is to say from human inventions superstitions and errours this I must flatly deny or that the popery men exclaim against is any such thing And as I can never my self be perswaded to the contrary so me thinks I should perswade even you my dear Lady and you also Mr Parson with your witty bedfellow to be of my mind VIC Who I God forbid Let them cleav