shall all be called together the most part of the nations shall beleeve and come to Christ in 1 Pet. 2. 9. which he quotes The Apostle calls the scattered Saints a holy nation yet they were no nation but scattered thorow many nations and these Scriptures are meant of the multiplicity of beleevers that shall be brought under Jesus Christs Dominion and these Texts do no more prove a nationall Church or any one nation wholly converted then that Text Go preach the Gospel unto every nation Matth. 28. proves that every nation shall therefore be converted to Christ and they rather prove that all nations shall be reall Saints then that any one nation or more shall be so Besides if the Church be nationall every one of the nation is a member and there can be no censures of Excommunication rightly administred for there can be no Excommunication but either by cutting the person off from this life or else banishing which are for destruction not edification for whiles he lives in the Kingdom he is a member and the bounds and limits of the nation are the bounds and limits of the Church Againe of what Nation in the world can it be said which is said of the Church you are a peculiar and holy people nay are not all the Nations corrupted few or none in the most imbracing the Gospel England hath been accounted as Protestant and as refined a Nation as any hath been for Doctrine yet how many vipers hath it bred in its own bowels who ever have been more wicked then they where have the Saints been more persecuted then here Againe if Nations may be Churches there will be no distinction between the World and the Church all will be Saints and as far members of the visible Church as the best Saints To that I say that he cannot shew any Nation every Member whereof is qualified sufficiently to make up a Church unlesse wee will take in Drunkards Whoremongers c. and this cannot be avoided in a Nationall Church he answers that he daces not be wiser then his Lord and Master who informes him that there will and must be alwaies in the visible Church on earth goats among the sheep châ—ffe amongst the wheat c. I answer 1. That there will be goats is most certaine but that there must be is neither necessitate praecepti nor medâ—j Christ never commanded it neither is it of absolute necessity for the Saints can live be built up without any mixture of such society is it a delight and pleasure to Christ to see goats among his sheep in his own fold what need then this must be so confidently put in Secondly goats chaffe bad fish are taken for hypocrites as well as profane men and in these places they are only to be taken so as for example that place Mat. 13. 24. of the good seed and the tares which he quotes by tares are not meant profane persons but hypocrites 1. the * Scutietus in obse vat in Mat. Pasor Lexicon in â—…b Word expresseth no more tares as Historians observe are a weed like the wheat now profane men are no way like the Saints 2. if it be meant of profane men and Master Pryn take it of their being in the Church then all the censures of the Church are out off ipso facto for the Text saith expressely they must be let alone till the harvest that is the day of judgment so that no wicked man may be excommunicated or any censure passe upon him yea 3. it is plaine they are hypocrites they were discovered by none but the Angells yea 4. if you will needs take it of profane men the Text saith expressely that these were not in the Church but in the world the field is the world vers 38. whereas he saith he finds that in the Churches of Galathia Collosse Pergamus c. there were drunkards Epicures whoremongers c. I answer in general that I know no Churches openly taxt for any such grosse acts of sin in all the New Testament only the Church of Corinth abou the incestuous Corinthian which is spoken as a defilement and a blot upon them whereby they were corrupted and he therefore exhorts them to cast him out that they might be a new lumpe 1 Cor. 5. As for 1 Cor. 11. where the Apostle saith one is thirsty and another is drunke I think it not meant of that grosse act which we call drunkennesse but the same with that which is said of Joseph and his brethren Gen. 43. 5. they dranke and were merry they drank more freely then they ought at that time though it might be lawfull at another time but however though there were these in such Churches Yet First I speak of the first constitution of a Church and what Churches should be not what they are degenerated into Secondly they were most spirituall sins that were laid to the charge of the seven Churches and other Churches as that they lost their first love countenanced false teachers c. not such grosse acts of prophanesse as whoring c. Yet Thirdly what heavy and sad threatnings are there denounced by God against these if the continued in that estate and what judgment did follow for God is very tender of his worship and what is become of all these Churches now how greatly hath God been displeased with them the Jewes might not enter into marriage with the daughters of a strange Land much lesse might they admit them to ordinances among them unlesse really converted and made proselytes now such are all not visible Saints in the judgment of the Saints unto those that are really called and joine together in the ordinances and they ought to be as shye of those as they were of them whatever a Church rightly constituted may fall into by defection I speak not of but what they ought to be such as the word calls Saints which can hardly be given by any knowing Saint to the most part of men in England For that he asketh whether we have not drunkards cozeners usurers c. members of our Churches I answer we know none and we should thank Master Pryn if he could discover any such account him our reall friend in it For that he saith where was there ever a Church of all elected ones that is a state for heaven not for this world I answer there 's none saith a Church must be all of elect but of such as can be judged by the Saints to be elect If men be not saved it s not because the Church is deceived but themselves the Church goes only on these probable rules of judging by which the word prescribes the visible Church in Scripture is called Heaven often times as Mat. 25. 1. Heb. 12. 26. Mat 13. and in Esa 4. 5. its called glory to intimate that none should properly be of the Church but should go to Heaven and it s called the body of Christ none should be admitted as members of that body but
members of Churches should be thus judged Saints because all the Ordinances that Christ hath left it s for to build up the Church they are to be administred in the Church now none have right to the Ordinances but Saints and therefore none may be admitted but such as can be judged so by the Saints Againe for the former which we say is consent or agreement whether by covenant or any other way we stand not on it we conceive first it ariseth from the nature of the thing the Church being a politick body wherein is rule and authority nothing but free consent or agreement to walk in such wayes can constitute it as in all other policies What makes England as a Common-wealth or as a Church to be such a policie but the consent of the people who have given up themselves to be governed by such Laws and Constitutions Secondly if this be not granted there can be no distinction of Churches in the world but all must be under one power for what makes England as a Church distinct from Scotland or Scotland from all Churches that they have no authoritative power over each other but onely this that the members of England or Scotland have not consented to walk under any other power but their own Surely the bounds of Seas or Rivers can no more distinguish Churches then a wall or a doore can if there be no other distinction and no other thing but consent can forme a Policie Besides Scripture is no way silent for the proof of this Not to urge many that place is famous and may serve for all in Act. 9. 26. Paul after he was converted it is said Assayed to joyne himselfe to the Disciples at Jerusalem and the word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth to be glewed to them Now observe Paul was converted and a Saint yet not joyned to the Church he was in that place where they were he was joyned to them as they were Saints yet he was not joyned to them as a Church and this joyning was not Physicall but Morall Now this must be done by free consent and willing subjection to the Ordinances or no way For the ordinary Officers of the Church they are Pastors Teachers 1 Cor. 12. 28. Ephes 4. 11. Teaching-Elders and Ruling-Elders 1 Tim. 5. 17. Deacons Acts 6. 1 Tim. 3. Widows 1 Tim. 5. 9. Rom. 16. 1. That the Church hath power of choosing its own Officers is cleare from Acts 1. 21. Acts 6. 3. and Chap. 14. 23. That a Church is but one Congregation having power within it selfe to exercise all the Ordinances is apparent in the new Testament neither do we read of any other there First the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used for the Church signifieth no other neither hath it any other signification in the new Testament when referred to any visible Company neither is it used by any profane Author for to note out a larger Society then could meet together in one place For the Church at Jerusalem it was but one Church Acts 2. 46. and 5. 12. and 6. 1. and 15. 25. and 21. 22. and 25. 22. so the Church of Antiochia was but one Church Acts 14. 27. they are said to gather the Church together now that could not be the Elders for for Elders onely the word Church is never used and the same persons that are called the Church vers 27. are in vers 28. called the Disciples and Chap. 15. 1. the Brethren so Acts 11. 26. the same persons are called the Church Disciples and Christians Besides the Church of Corinth was but one Church was but one particular Congregation 1 Cor. 5. 4. 1 Cor. 14. 25. 1 Cor. 11. 17. vers 23. In uno codem loco neither can the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ever be shewed to signifie any thing else besides one particular Assembly as learned Baines wel observes I shal conclude this with quoting of what that judicious Divine D. Ames saith in this particular Med. p. 190. Hine variae Congregationes fixae ejusdem Regionis ac Provinciae plurali numero semper appellantur Ecclesiae non una Ecclesia etiam in Judaea quae tota fuit antea una Ecclesia Nationalis Act. 2. 46. 15. 12. 14. 27. 1 Cor. 5. 4 11. 17. 23. 1 Thes 2. 14. Acts 14. 23. and 15. 41. Rom. 16. 4. 5. 16. 1 Cor. 16. 1. 1. 19. 2 Cor. 8. 1. 18. 19. Gal. 1. 2. 22. 1. Rev. Ecclesiae enim illae particulares quae in N. T. commemorantur convenice solent 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 neque in toto N. T. legitue de institutione Ecclesiae amplioris a quo minores Congregationes penderent c. Thus you see a short description and discovery of what we hold about Church-government with some Scriptures in stead of others that move us to this way The Reasons and Grounds I doubt not but we shall see at large when that shall be made publike which our Brethren have urged in the Assembly and presented to the Parliament But to proceed For that part wherein he saith I should have proved that Christ hath set one immutable forme of government and have made it out by direct Scriptures besides what is laid down in the Observations which I doubt not to make good against his cavills I thought Master Prin had read learned Master Parker de Eccles Pol. Cartwright and the most of the Nonconformists who though Presbyteriall in their judgement yet have largely proved that to whom I shall refer him for larger satisfaction I know none that ever writ against the immutablenesse of a forme of Church-government in the new Testament but Episcopall and Pontificiall men as Hooker Bilson The judgement of the Church of Scotland is quite contrary For they assert their Presbytery to be Jure Divino and holds its Title onely from heaven it seems the Presbyterians differ as well as the Independants and they are also various in their judgements some think there is no forme of government others that there is But to the Arguments First Exod. 25. 40. I said if this were granted the Gospel would be straiter then the Law Heb. 8. 5. Christ more unfaithfull then Moses and the Argument lies thus according to his own drawing if God set a pattern to Moses of every thing to be done in the Church from which he was not to vary upon any termes these being but carnall Ordinances comparatively Heb. 9. 10. then he hath prescribed a forme of government in the new Testament to all Churches Nations c. from which they may not vary but the former Ergo the Medium or ground of arguing between these two is from the care that God hath of the Church at all times being one and the same rather more in the new Testament God had shewed lesse care over his Churches now than then if he had not prescribed a set Government for them also besides their Ordinances had been more spirituall far then ours
onely on the will of God and there is no necessity in the nature of the things for their appointment As for example why God would be worshipped by Sacraments why excommunication or other acts of discipline should be appointed as a meanes to save the soule there is no reason to be given from the thing but onely Gods will now that is onely exprest in the word or naturally to be drawne from it as for things civill such as he instanceth as temporall Magistrates Parliaments c. It s left by God to every Common-wealth to sit themselves and dispose of things as may be most for their peace and profit and consonancie to the Morall and Politick rules of justice and equity is enough to warrant these undertakings From this he passeth to my Anti-quaeries First If no prescript forme of Church-government in the word why not Episcopacie especially regulated and moderated as well as Presbytery To which he Answers If you meane it of Lordly Episcopacie there are abundant Texts against it if of moderated and regulated Episcopacie the same with Presbytery if the Parliament by the Synods advice unanimously establish c. I shall readily submit to it and why not you and all others In which first let all the world observe That Master Pryn grants that Presbytery is but a regulated Episcopacie Oh noble hearted Saints and well bred Christians of England who have felt so much the power of Episcopacie which was the Lion let go about without its chaine think what Presbytery will be which is but the same Lion in a fetter if ever it break loose with what redoubled might will it tear and devoure Episcopacie to be cut off root and branch was one part of that first noble Petition of this famous City signed with 15000. hands and doth not that reach Master Pryns Presbytery This was the great suggestion both in Parliament and elsewhere among the judicious and godly that if they should cut the Bishops Locks a little regulate them their hair would soon grow again and pull down the house of the Common-wealth about us all in a Presbytery there is no more according to Mr. Pryns own judgement the Bishops nails will be cut a little to grow out the faster to claw the sorer or rather the Bishops power in a Presbytery is dilated from 26. unto 600. what one could not reach to do you may be sure many will and as the Bishops would call men Puritans and Non-Conformists and so persecute them so will the Presbytery call men Schismaticks Hereticks Antinomians Separatists and do the like And whereas it may be said The Presbytery will be godly men I Answer so were the first Bishops of Rome in the beginning and these which are now good may leave the government next to as bad men as may be and then the misery will be greater by how much the multitude that have power are greater I do not think the Pope is called Antichrist so much because of his Temporall power as because of his taking such power of jurisdiction over the Consciences of men prescribing for them Laws to walk by and punishing men for disobeying Neither was the Episcopacie unlawfull so much because of their Lordships as for their supream power they arrogated over the Church and Consciences of men and because there were no footsteps for it in the word Whereas he saith if the Parliament and Synod shall establish a Presbytery he shall readily submit and asketh why not we Let him know if he can sell away his Judgement and Conscience we cannot yet though we cannot go against our Conscience to obey actively we have learned to submit to Authority passively if they can in Conscience take any such course with us 2. Antiquerie was if Church-government be to be suited to States whether Politicians are not more fit to consult about it and why is an Assembly of Divines called To which he answers That his Position is that Church-government ought to be suitable to the Word as also to the Civill State and therefore Polititians and Statesmen and divines are to be consulted with c. In this Answer Master Pryn give the greatest ground to hold up the Bishop powers in States and so of Ministers also to be Statesmen as can be if the civill power and Ecclesiasticall have such a dependence on each other that the one must be suited to the other If by suiting to States he meanes that the government of Christs Church must be suited to every forme of civill government then there must be as many sorts of Church-government as there are of civill which is the greatest confusion that can be and then you need not put in that clause that it be suitable to the word for that is suitable to the word which suits the State for either there is but one government in the word set down to all and then it is no matter where it suit the State for that must be followed what ever States say or else that government which suits the State is suitable to the word and then what need such calling and urging the patterne of the best reformed Churches what have we to doe with a Scottish government or French or any seeing our civill government dissers from both this conceit is the greatest doctrine of Liberty in the world If by suiting of States he meanes that the government of Christ should be no disturbance to the proceedings or peace of a State it s granted and so the congregationall way is as suitable to States as Presbyterie or any other government in the world To the third question he answers That it is more fit that the State should be subject to Christs rule then Christ to it but this question saith he is besides the question untill you prove a set unalterable Government which I have done sufficiently yet to say somewhat to what he saith in the following words whether Christian Princes Parliaments Synods under the Gospel have not power to bind all the Churches under their dominions as the major part of an Independent Church to bind their own members To which I answer First if majoritie be considered absolutely in it self that where there is the greater number or greater part of the Catholick Church they may make Laws for other Churches then another kingdome if it be greater then this and the numbers of the Church more may make Ecclesiasticall Laws for this kingdome yea then that must call in all the Churches in the world in every matter For where there is more there is authoritie yea onely the Catholick Church must rule and make laws for it self Secondly the reason why the major part of a congregation binds yet onely in particular actions which concerne themselves not in prescribing a rule of Church government unto others is because of the promise which God hath made with them Matth. 18. where two or three are gathered together in my Name I will be in the midst saith Christ when he speaks of the
will never punish any man for the not obeying that he searcheth after prayeth God to reveale and yet cannot find it to be the mind of God much lesse should men force men who not only have no light in the thing but their light is against it to obey what they conceive is the mind of God 2. That Doctrine that puts upon any man an inevitablenesse of sinning may not be admitted but such doth this that men must obey what superiours command in the Worship of God though their judgements be against it and the minor is proved thus by instance to go against my light and conscience is sin and to disobey the Magistrates commands is sin and one I must doe yea it s the greatest hypocrisie that can be to follow that authority commands which yet mans conscience thinks is not to be done besides what do I know but the light I have is from the Spirit of God and if I go against it I am guilty of resisting and grieving the Spirit which is the greatest sin that can be 3. It is the greatest tyranny over mens souls that can be what can be greater then to make other mens judgments the rule of my conscience to sweare obedience to that my understanding is against surely its the greatest soul-inquisition that can be however Master Pryn saith I infer a blind obedience from his Position I know not how to infer otherwise for that must needs be blind obedience when a man must obey take it in what you will of this kind that which he seeth not either exprest or any way warranted by the Word it s to put men above God at least in this place for if I must obey because higher Powers judge it so their power must be the rule of my conscience which alone is subject to the Word and it s the greatest basenesse of spirit it dis-ennobles mens spirits hinders and utterly crusheth the growth of any ones gifts for if other mens judgments must be my rule and I sin in not submitting to it what need any man study to find out truth or with the noble Bereans to search the Scripture to see whether these things be so give men eyes and they will soon follow you else never call for such unlimited obedience Againe what if the Parliament and Synod should erre in setting up a Government must every one be bound to joine with them To which he answers First such an oversight is not to be presumed untill it be actually committed and it s neither Christian charitable nor any way of Christ thus to prejudge their resolutions And yet you to presume to determine what the Congregationall way is and censure what effects will follow though you professe you know not what they hold and never saw the way exercised we know as much of Presbyteriall and its effects as ever any can speak of the Congregationall therefore leave off your scandalous Titles of this way which yet you never saw did commit any thing worthy of them As for your sufferings you speak of I never mentioned them as your shame though you have made the honour of them lesse then the World thought it was in that you say you suffered not for opposing any Ceremony legally established or the Bishops calling but their Lordly power however you suffered and now we are glad we know for what you suffered yet holy Master Burton for his part confesseth the contrary that he suffered for preaching against the Bishops Government and the Ceremonies I doubt not but if ever God shall call us to suffer for this truth we shall have as much comfort and strength in standing for the Prerogative of King Jesus as ever you had for maintaining any Statute-Law whatsoever In the fifth saith he he grants that Independency will overthrow all Nationall Churches and Synods 1. Is it not even a turbulent dangerous Schismaticall unquiet that I say not insufferable Government which will admit no equall nor corrivall and thus he goes on with his uncivill calumnies for many lines But bona verba quaeso if you understand the words thus that in the judgments of these that are of this way there can be no Nationall Churches according to the Word so it overthrowes it but yet only in intellectu as I may say they cannot think it to be a Gospel Institution of a Church as the holding one opinion overthrowes another so is this that all Nationall Churches will be overthrowne by your Congregationall way and this sense which I meane deserves not such unworthy Language but if you take it as it seems you do that the Congregationall way cannot live by the other Government or in a Nation which is a Church but it will endeavour by force and armes to extirpate overthrow unchurch them that disturbe their peace slay their members c. It hath not as yet conceived such a thought and its contrary to its nature to bring it forth there is nothing so detestable to our judgements and I doubt not that should be more contrary to our practice then the disturbing the peace of a Nation what ever scandall men fasten on us To the sixth he sayes I returne no answer but plainly yeeld that there was never any Independent Church in any age or nation whatever totally converted to the Christian faith c. If Mr. Pryn understand the words thus That the congregationall way hath not beene set up as the government of any one Nation it s granted but that there was never a congregationall Church in any one nation is denied and it will put him to it to make it out Nay for the first foure or 500. yeeres I durst challenge him to produce any other then particular Churches that had the power of censures within themselves Justin and Irenaeus knew no kinde of Church in the world which did not assemble on the Sabbath and as learned Mr. Baines proves out of Euseb l. 3. 44. lib. See Bains diocesan triall 4. cap. 21. and lib. 2. cap. 6. that Churches at first were but Parishes and Parishes within Cities and he quotes Saint John lib. 3. cap. 23. saying to the Bishop Redde juvenem quem tibi ego Christus teste Ecclesia tua tradidimus Tertullian Apol. c. 39. knew no Churches which had not power of censures within themselves and we hold no more Saith Cyprian lib. 4. ep 1. Schismes were said to be from hence Quod Episcopo universa fraternitas non obtemperat And the same Author Epist 55. tota fraternitas i. e. unius congregationis tota multitudo ex qua componitur Ecclesia particularis Sabino de universae fraternitatis suffragio Episcopatus fuit delatus And againe lib. 1. epist 47. 58. 68. Ecclesiae igitur circuitus non fuit major quam ut Episcopatus totam plebem fuam in negotiis hujusmodi convocare potuerit He which is skil'd in Antiquity I doubt not but may bring forth multitudes of such testimonies as these all that we say is that a
the meetings of Hereticks and Schismaticks who separate themselves c. Though your passion would not yet your charity might have given us better language You and your Party are very full of these tearms though you nor they ever define what Schisme or Heresie is We desire and challenge you to tell us what Heresies we have broached in these Conventicles In what Fundamentalls do we differ from you which is Heresie What Acts against the power of godlinesse can you manifest against us What Treasons have we plotted against the Parliament in our meetings Should I call you Heretick and Schismatick c. because your judgement is Presbyteriall would you take it well The Lord learn you meeknesse and a more sober Spirit not to tax so highly and slander so insufferably unlesse you make it out that we are such To the eighth he saith I answer negatively and well I may My first Answer was that the nationall Church of the Jews cannot be a pattern for us now because the Covenant of the Gospel is not made with any one particular nation but to all in every nation that beleeve you have no promise nor Prophesie of any nation to be holy to God but the Jews when they shall be called again To which he Replyes 1. That the Independents have not the least Precept or Example for a solemn Covenant but in the old Testament and Church of the Israelites and that no private Congregationall but publike nationall Covenant prescribed by the supream temporall Magistrate and Assembly yea the principall Precepts and Presidents for sanctifying the Sabbath publike or private Fasts you likewise derive from the old Testament and that Church Why should not therefore their nationall Church be a pattern for us c. To which I Answer First For the Covenant we hold not that such a formall Covenant constitutes a Church this is enough that there be an union whether by Covenant explicite or implicit or consent that is certain the Union is Morall as all other must be that constitute a Policie yet for that he saith there is no Precept or pattern but in the old Testament for a Covenant it s answered Secondly That its ground enough for such a practise the Covenant not being Ceremoniall but Morall and that which of necessity goes to such a Constitution it did not constitute the Church as nationall but as a Church Indeed the Covenant was nationall because the Church was so but that was accidentall It s no part of the essence of a Covenant that it should be nationall that doth accedere to it as it constitutes such a Policie and the same or which is equivalent must constitute a particular Church the same formall Constitution that was in that Church as a Church must be in every Church also and though the dispensation in Churches be different yet the same constitutive Principles remain in all For that he saith the principall Precepts for a Sabbath and Fasts we take out of the old Testament and therefore why should not their 〈…〉 Church be a pattern for us to imitate as well as their nationall Covenant Sabbaths c. I Answer We keep the Sabbath onely as it is a Morall Precept in the Decalogue not as peculiar to the Jews for where there was any ceremonialnesse in it as the seventh day it s changed among us and for Fasts there is as great equity that when we have displeased God we should solemnly humble our selves before him But that the Church was Nationall was meerly accidentall and he might as well argue and it will as rightly follow that there must be but one visible Church in all the world and that one nation as the Jews were for if he argue from one part which is accidentall he must argue from another that is so likewise Besides if this be a property of a Church that it be nationall then there is no Church but what is nationall if that did convenire to the Church of the Jews as a Church that it was nationall then it doth so unto every Church and the same may be said that there was but that one Church in the world then therefore there is but one now Many such absurdities will necessarily follow such an Argument To that that I say that the Covenant of the Gospel is made with no particular nation but with every one in every nation that beleeves and that there is no Prophesie or Promise of any one nation to be converted but the Jews He Answers That this Reason is both absurd and false the Covenant extending not only to particular persons but to all nations c. And for this he quotes many Scriptures in the Margent the summe of which is contained in Psal 2. 8. Ask of me and I will give thee the heathen for thine inheritance and the utmost parts of the earth for thy possession And that in Esay 2. 2 3. The mountain of the Lord shall be exalted on the top of the mountains and all nations shall flow to it Therefore God hath made a Covenant with particular nations to be Churches To which I answer 1. That if these Texts be to be understood so Jesus Christ never had a Church since the dissolution of the Jewish State for there hath been no nation in the world yet wholly given to Christ none that may be called a holy nation as yet that Prophesie is not fulfilled what may be hereafter I know not Secondly You may as well say that the Covenant of the Gospel is made with all nations and that all nations are or shall be Churches to Christ for so the words run in the generall I will give thee the heathen for thine inheritance and the utmost parts of the earth c. and all nations shall flow in unto the Church and become such Thirdly That in Psalm 2. is not meant of God covenanting with any people but it shews that all the world is in subjection to Christ and that the Father hath given him all rule and power from one end of the earth to the other and the following words imply so much for he saith He shall rule them with a rod of iron now it s not meant so much of the Church as of the Kings and Potentates and great men of the world that band themselves against Christ Christ rules not his Church with a rod of iron but with a golden Scepter and if all nations were given to Christ that is really converted and in Covenant there would not be so many Potentates Kings and great ones to band themselves against Christ and his Church and for that place Esay 2. That all nations shall flow into the Church when once it s exalted it s no more then what was fulfilled in Acts 2. where men of every nation under heaven beleeved and so is the word commonly used for some of all nations and the utmost that can be said of them and all the other places brought is but this that when Jews and Gentiles
those who can really be judged to be so if prophane persons must be in the Church as you say then I know no reason but all may be in the Church and no man in the world may be said to be out of the Church for the most are ungodly if ungodly ones do steal in among the Saints to a Church they prosper not and Christ will discover them to their everlasting shame and more dreadfull judgments follow none as these Christ dwells in his house which is the Church and it s no pleasure to Christ to see a mixture among his owne he that made a whip of cords to drive out the buyers and sellers out of the materiall Temple will take rods of iron to whip out such ungodly wretches I am sure Christs bread belongs to no such dogs only the children are welcome and he hath given power to his Church to keep out these that have not a judged right Againe if prophane persons and such as walke not like Saints are to be cast out of the church then such as are judged so must not be admitted into the church but the former is true Ergo. That they are to be cast out of the Church is cleer from the Scriptures Mat. 18. 1 Cor. 5. that therefore they ought not to be admitted is as cleare for the same ground is in both they are admitted in because they walke as Saints and so are judged to be Saints they are cast out because they walk not as such the truth is this principle will soon lessen a Nationall Church and therefore no wonder the Presbyterians are shye of holding it for they must cast out the most of their members assoon as they receive them in It s the strangest thing to me and I startle at it many times what strict rules the Presbyterians have laid down in their Sermons in print Master Dâ—…s preparation to the Sacrament and their Sermons before the Sacrament every moneth in which they lay on men such qualifications both habituall and actuall that there is not one in a hundred of the best Saints can follow them and yet blame their brethren for keeping of there which they cannot judge to have the least degree of these qualifications they tell them it belongs not to them they will eate and drinke their owne damnation on and yet cry out in these that would not have these poor souls contract such guilt and draw on such ruine on their own souls and therefore keep them back do you take in these who are drunkards whoremongers c. into communion in the ordinances blame us not if we keep our selves from such defilements For his answer saith he to that of Act. 15 all ages Churches till this present have held it as an expresse warrant for provinciall and nationall Synods and their making Cannons in Church affaires I shall not say much to this not doubting but we shal see these things shortly in print which our brethren have urged in the Assembly How that can be a formall Synod I could never see yet made forth For First This was not a gathering of the Elders of many Churches who make a Synod but only some messengers whether Elders or no the Text speaks not occasionally sent up to Jerusalem to that Church there Secondly here was the whole multitude viz. the Brethren present besides the Apostles and Elders and the Letter that is sent is as much written in their name as of any of the Elders now the Brethren or multitude are not usuall to be Members of Synods Thirdly the Message is sent as the mind of the Holy Ghost and not their bare judgments but that which they had principally received by inspiration from the Spirit and is not now ordinary to any Synod for what Synod I can say it seemeth good to the Holy Ghost and us to lay such things on you Fourthly if this were a Synod made up of Elders of severall Congregations and that Paul and Barnabas went not up to prove the false Apostles lyars but to have the truth manifested which they could not do then a Synod of Elders have more power then bare Apostles to order things in the Church Paul and Barnabas were men very unfit to be Apostles if they could not have determined such a question whether it was necessary for the Gentiles to be circumcised who were to plant and order things in all the Churches and who had power over all Churches and were to write the man I of God to them surely one Apostle had more knowledge of the things of God and of matters of controversie in the Church then all the Synods in the world besides nay all are to follow what they loft to the Churches it were greatly to diminists the Apostles power and the highnesse of that office to think than they could not determine such a question but must go to a Synod to have it cleared up to them Besides it was an Apostle when they came up to Jerusalem viz. Peter who decided the controversie and Paul and Barnabas were men of as great judgement and had as much power as he However we think not that to be a Synod yet the convening of Assemblies and Synods for advice and counsell we deny not but that any Synod or Councell hath an authoritative jurisdiction to impose Laws and Canons for all Churches to walk by we conceive cannot be proved neither from this of Acts 15. or any other Text Yea even this Assembly now among us the Parliament have called onely for advice not intending to give them a power of jurisdiction over them and all the Kingdome Master Pryn saith and takes much pains to prove in his late triumphing book that Synods and Councells and Magistrates have ever used to make Laws for the Church to exercise a coercive power in matters of Religion De Facto and he might have saved himself labour to have proved it but whether De Jure there is such a power invested in them and from what Scripture I have not yet seen and should be glad to be informed by him To my ninth Querie saith he and Argument in it he returns nothing worthy Reply but upon this Petitio principii that the Scriptures and the Apostles have prescribed a set form of Government c. which I have proved before and that the Churches in the Apostles dayes were Independent though doubtlesse saith he all Churches were then subject to the Apostles Laws and Edicts c. therefore not Independent What there is in this worthy of Reply I am ignorant of yet this is to be noted hwo the Presbyterians make a market of this scandalous name of Independents they have fastened on us viz. To make the world beleeve that we are subject to no Laws that neither Gods Word nor mans is a rule to us for this is the naturall sense of his words he saith The Primitive Churches were subject to the Apostles Laws Ergo Not Independent As if we held that we were
Independent from the Apostles Laws And if he put it as an Argument it runs thus if the Primitive Churches were subject to the Apostles Laws Rules then are all Churches now subject to a Presbytery and Synods the consequence we desire you to prove To whom should the Church be subject but to these who gave them the minde of God immediatly And here let the Reader observe that in this Head Master Pryn brought in many Arguments by way of absurdity upon the holding of the Primitive Churches to be a pattern of all other which it seems he is ashamed to mention and seeth now because of what was retorted on him that even they themselves are absurd For that he saith of my retorted That the Scriptures were written in the infancie of the Church therefore better might be written now that is a blasphemous conclusion It s confessed Yet had it as good a consequence as yours that the Churches now had a more perfect constitution then the Churches in the Apostles times because they were the first and as you call them Infant churches Whereas you say that the Scripture was writ by the Ancient of dayes who hath neither infancie nor imperfection as the Church hath I Answer That the Scripture was writ to be a Rule to perfect the Churches and the reason of the imperfection of the Churches is because it comes not up to that Rule and these Churches how ever you deemed them Infant had more knowledge of that Rule then ever any yet have had they receiving it more immediatly from Gods mouth then any since and their Churches must needs be more exactly constituted then any since who lived under the Apostles direction and had all they had from them as from God To that I say that he would make a Nationall Church more perfect then a Congregationall he saith he doubts not to averre it since warranted by direct * Eph. 4. 11 12 13. 2 Cor. 13. 9. Heb 6. 1. 1 Pet. 9. 10. Phil. 3. 12. 2. Heb. 13. 21. James 1. 4. Scriptures to the which I shall refer the Reader but to look over and then let him learn hereafter to be taken with Master Pryns Marginall Quotations what shaddow there is of proof in these Scriptures but a cast of an eye will discern But yet I answer Imperfection in any thing ariseth more or lesse either from the defect of something essentiall or which is to the beauty and ornament and glory of a thing or both then is a thing more or lesse perfect when either its essentialls are more perfect or that which accidentally goes to the adorning of it What there is more of these two in a Nationall Church then in a Congregationall I know not unlesse the mixt multitude of beleevers and profane persons growing up together into a bitter bulk of sin should adde either to the essence or ornament of a Church if God had seen so much beauty in Nationall-churches above others he would not have destroyed the Jewish State or at least would have stablished the like in the Gospel and would have converted the heathen Empires and have took them in to be a Church to him It was the mixt multitude which came out of Egypt with the Israelites that brought them to so much wo indeed were a whole nation such as could be judged reall Saints it would be a lovely sight to behold so many Churches walking together in the unity of the faith but that never hath been yet we know not what may be we have little hopes of it untill the Jews be called if then And which is a more perfect State a company of visible Saints joyned together in love and walking in all the Ordinances of God according to their light or a whole nation wherein there is here and there a Saint walking with Whoremasters Drunkards and all sorts of ungodly ones without distinction and enjoying all these Ordinances that the most have no right unto The comparison between a grown experienced Christian and a babe in grace is no way proportionable to this thing Wherein lies the growth and perfection and experience in a Nationall-church that is not in a Congregationall Either it lies in the Presbytery and Nationall-assembly or in the distinct Parishes and the Members of them If in the Assembly that they are so experienced the people have little benefit by it unlesse to subject their necks to what they say and there is the same in many Congregationall-churches when met for advice if in the Parishes and the severall Congregations the same is in this way we speak of much more little is the edification the members have from the perfection of a Nationall-church seeing they cannot meet together or be present at the hearing of these experiences that others have the onely benefit the members have is from the enjoyment of the gifts of their own Pastour and it may be he one that they never chose as Pastour to them but was imposed on them and the truth is this is but to circumscribe the Church in the Ministers for else there may be more understanding men and experienced Christians in a Congregationall-church then generally thorowout a nation the common people being most ignorant every where One thing he urgeth more in this That a congregationall-Congregationall-church is forced to pray in the aid of other Churches for advice assistance c. which a nationall-Nationall-church need not Now here let all the world observe whether he or any of the Presbyterians have cause to call us Independent What more independent then a nationall-Nationall-church It s a Pope infallible needs no aid assistance of any Church in the world it hath a spirit of infallibility tied to its girdle We acknowledge we need help and assistance from other Churches they need none and here all you Presbyterians either renounce Master Pryns opinion and get some other Champion for you or else for ever cease to open your mouth to call any of the Congregationall way Independent In fine saith he He himself confesseth that the Apostles made new rules for Government and Discipline as occasion served and as God fitted occasions so he made known new rules successively by degrees not at once c. Therefore the Infant-Church in the Apostles dayes was not so compleat and perfect in all its parts as the multiplied and grown Churches afterwards A. How much he hath failed in the recitall of this let the Reader compare and judge I will not say wilfully as he saith of me for he hath left out that part which was the strength of all which if he had took in his Position had been overthrown which was that though the Apostles added by degrees according as occasion served new Rules and Offices for to what end should they adde untill there was occasion yet so as at length they discovered all the minde of God concerning his Churches Government and left it as a pattern to all the Churches As the Scriptures were not written all at once but