an interest in this church of Jesus Christ Our Reverend Author professes that he hath but little to say to these things some exceptions he puts in unto some expressions used in the explication of my sense in this particular that which he chiefely insists upon is the accommodation of that promise Matth. 16. 28. upon this rock will I build my church to the Church in this sense which he concludes to belong to the visible Church of professors now as I am not at all concerned as to the truth of what I am in confirmation of to which of these it be applyed so I am far from being alone in that application of it to the Catholick Church which I insist upon All our Divines that from hence prove the perseverance of all Individuall believers as all do that I have met withall who write on that subject are of the same mind with me Moreover the Church is built on this rock in its Individuals or I know not how it is so built The building on Christ doth not denote a meer relation of a generall body to his truth that it shall allwaies have an existence but the union of the Individualls with him in their being built on him to whom the promise is made I acknowledg it for as unquestionable a truth as any we believe that Christ hath had and ever shall have to the end of the world a visible number of those that professe his name and subjection to his kingdome because of the necessary consequence of profession upon believing but that that truth is intended in this promise any farther but in respect of this consequence I am not convinced And I would be loath to say that this promise is not made to every particular believer and only unto them being willing to vindicate to the Saints of God all those grounds of consolation which he is so willing they should be made partakers of As to the union of this Church and the breach of it our Reverend Author hath a little to say because there may be some decaies in true grace in the members of this Church he affirms that in a sort there may be said to be a breach in this union and so consequently a schisme in this body He seemed formerly to be affraid lest all schisme should be thrust out of the world If he can retrive it on the account of any true believers failing in grace or falling for a season I suppose he needs not fear the losse of it whilst this world continues But it is fit wise and learned men should take the Liberty of calling things by what names they please so they will be pleasd withall not to impose their conceptions and use of tearms on them who are not able to understand the reasons of them It is true there may be a Schisme among the members of this church but not as members of this church nor with reference to the union thereof It is granted that schisme is the breach of union but not of every union much lesse not a breach of that which if there were a breach of it were not Schisme However by the way I am bold to tell this Reverend Author that this Doctrine of his concerning schisme in the Catholick invisible Church by the failings in Grace in any of the mēbers of it for a season is a new notion which as he cannot justify to us because it is false so I wonder how he will justify it to himselfe because it is new And what hath been obtained by the Author against my principles in this chapter I cannot perceive The nature of the church in the state considered is not opposed The union asserted not disproved the breach of that union is denyed as I suppose no lesse by him then my selfe That the instances that sōe Saints as mēbers of this Church may sometimes fail in grace more or lesse for some season that the members of this Church though not as members of this Church yet on other considerations may be guilty of Schisme concern not the businesse under debate himselfe I hope is satisfied CHAP. 7. OUr progresse in the next place is to the consideration of the Catholick Church visible Who are the members of this church whereof it is constituted what is required to make them so on what account men visibly professing the gospell may be esteemed justly devested of the priviledge of being members of this church with sundry respects of the church in that sense are in my treatise discussed The union of this church that is proper and peculiar unto it as such I declared to be the profession of the saving doctrine of the gospell not everted by any of the miscarriages errors or oppositions to it that are there recounted The breach of this union I manifest to consist in apostasy from the profession of the faith and so to be no Schisme upon whomsoever the guilt of it doth fall pleading the immunity of the Protestants as such from the guilt of the breach of this union and charging it upon the Romanists in all the waies whereby it may be broken an issue is put to that discourse What course our Reverend Author takes in the examination of this chapter the severalls of it whereon the strength of the controversie dothly is now to be consideed doth he deny this church to be a collection of all that are duly called Christians in respect of their profession to be that great multitude who throughout the world professe the Doctrine of the Gospell and subjection to Jesus Christ doth he denie the union of this church or that whereby that great multitude are incorporated into one body as visible and professing to be the profession of the saving doctrines of the Gospell of subjection to Jesus Christ according to them Doth he denie the dissolution of this union as to the interest of any member by it in the body to be by apostasy from the profession of the Gospell Doth he charge that apostasy upon those whom he calls Independents as such or if he should could he tolerably defend his charge Doth he prove that the breach of this union is under that formality properly Schisme nothing lesse as far as I can gather might not then the trouble of this Chapter have been spared or shall I be necessitated to defend every expression in my book though nothing at all to the main businesse under debate or else Independency must goe for a great Schisme I confesse this is somewhat an hard Law and such as I cannot proceed in obedience unto it without acknowledging his ability to compell me to go on further then I am willing yet I do it with this ingagement that I will so looke to my selfe that he shall never have that power over me any more nor will I upon any compulsion of useless needlesse cavils exceptions do so again so that in his reply he now knowes how to order his affairs so as to be freed from the
on the account of separation from the Catholick church let him prove that that church is not made up of the universality of professors of the Gospell throughout the world under the limitations expressed that the union of it as such doth not consist in the profession of the truth and that the breach of that union whereby a man ceases to be a member of that Church is Schismes otherwise to tell me that I am a Sectary a Schismatick to fill up his pages with vaine surmizes and supposalls to talke of a difference and schsme among the members of the catholick church or the like impertinencies will never farther his discourse among men either rationall solid or judicious All that ensues to the end of this chapter is about the ordination of ministers wherein however he hath beē pleased to deal with me in much bitternesse of spirit with many clamours and false Accusations I am glad to find him p. 120. renouncing ordination from the Authority of the church of Rome as such for I am assured that by his so doing he can claime it no waie from by or through Rome for nothing came to us from thence but what came in and by the Authority of that Church CHAP. IX WE are now gathering towards what seems of most immediate concernment as to this Reverend Authors undertaking namely to treate of the nature of a particular church its union and the breach of that union the description I give of such a church is this It is a society of men called by the word to the obedience of the faith in Christ and joint performance of the worship of God in the same individuall ordinances according to the order by him prescribed This I professe to be a generall description of its nature waving all contests about accurate definitions which usually tend very little to the discovery or establishment of truth after some canvassing of this description our Author tells us that he grants it to be the definition of a particular church which is more then I intended it for only he adds that according to this description their churches are as true as ours which I presume by this time he knowes was not the thing in Question His ensuing discourse of the will of Christ that men should joine not all in the same individuall congregation but in this or that is by me wholly assented ūto and the matter of it contended for by me as I am able what he is pleased to adde about explicite covenanting and the like I am not at all for the present concerned in I purposely waved all expressions concerning it one way or other that I might not involve the businesse in hand with any unnecessary contests it is possible somewhat hereafter may be spoken to that subject in a tendency unto the reconciliation of the parties at variance His argument in the close of the Section for a Presbyterian church from Acts 20. 17. because there is mention of more elders then one in that Church and therefore it was not one single congregation I do not understand I think no one single congregation is wholly compleated according to the mind of Christ unlesse there be more elders then one it there should be elders in every Church and for my part so we could once agree practically in the matter of our churches I am under some apprehension that it were no impossible thing to reconcile the whole difference as to a Presbyterian church or a single congregation And though I be reproved a new for my pains I may offer ere long to the candid consideration of godly men something that may provoke others of better abilities and more leasure to endeavour the carrying on of so good a work Proceeding to the consideration of the unity of this church he takes notice of three things laid down by me previously to what I was farther to assert all which he grants to be true but yet will not let them passe without his animadversions The two first are that 1. a man may be a member of the Catholick invisible church and 2 of the visible Catholick church and yet not be joyned to a particular Church These as I said he ownes to be true but askes how I can reconcile this with what I said before namely that the members of the Catholick visible Church are initiated into the profession of the faith by Baptisme but where lies the difference why saith he Baptisme according to his principles is an ordinance of worship only to be enjoyed in a particular Church whilst he will grant what yet he doth denie but will be forced to grant that a minister is a minister to more then his owne church even to the Catholick Church and may administer Baptisme out of a particular church as Phillip did to the Eunuch A. How well this Author is acquainted with my principles hath been already manifested as to his present mistake I shall not complaine seeing that some occasion may be administred unto it from an expression of mine at least as it is printed of which I shall speak afterwards for the present he may be pleased to take notice that I am so far from confining Baptisme subjectively to a particular congregation that I do not believe that any member of a particular church was ever regularly baptized Baptisme precedes admission into Church membership as to a particular Church the subject of it is professing believers and their seed as such they have right unto it whither they be joined to any particular church or no suitable to this judgment hath been my constant and uninterrupted practise I desire also to know who told him that I deny a minister to be a minister to more then his own Church or averred that he may perform ministeriall duty only in and towards the members of his own congregation for so much as men are appointed the objects of the dispensation of the word I grant a man in the dispensation of it to act ministerially towards not only the members of the Catholick church but the visible members of the world also in contradistinction thereunto The third thing laid down by me whereunto also he assentes is that every believer is oblieged to join himselfe to some one of those Churches that there he may abide in Doctrine and fellowship and breaking of bread and prayer but my reasons whereby I prove this he saies he likes not so well and truly I cannot helpe it I have little hope he should like any thing well which is done by me Let him be pleased to furnish me with better and I shall make use of them but yet when he shall attempt so to doe it is odds but that one or other will find as many flawes in them as he pretends to do in mine But this he saith he shall make use of and that he shall make advantage of and I know not what as if he were playing a prize upon a stage The third reason is that which he likes
supposition that it is a Church which yet I utterly deny to be a schismaticall Church upon the account of the intestine divisions of all sorts or what other accounts other men urge them with the same guilt I suppose he knows by this that I am not concern'd Having finished this exploit because I had said if I were unwilling I did not understand how I might be compelled to carry on the notion of Schisme any farther he tells me though I be unwilling he doubts not but to be able to compell me but who told him I was unwilling so to do do I not immediately without any compulsion very freely fall upon the worke did I say I was unwilling Certainly it ought not to be thus of his abilities in other things I do not doubt in this discourse he is pleased to exercise more of something else There is but one passage more that needs to be remarked and so this Chapter also is dismissed He puts in a Caveat that I limit not Schisme to the worship of God upon these words of mine the consideration of what sort of union in reference to the worship of God where he inserts in the repetition marke that is instituted by Jesus Christ is the foundation of what I have further to offer whereto he subjoined the designe of this in that he may have a fair retreat when he is charged with breach of union in other respects and so with Schisme to escape by this evasion this breach of union is not in reference to the worship of God in one assembly met to that end I wish we had once an end of these mistakes and false uncharitable surmises By the worship of God I intend the whole compasse of institutions and their tendency thereunto And I know that I speak properly enough in so doing I have no such designe as I am charged withall nor do I need it I walke not in feare of this Authors forces that I should be providing before hand to secure my retreat I have passed the bounds of the precise notion of Schisme before insisted on and yet doubt not but God assisting to make good my ground If he judge I cannot let him command my personall attendance on him at any time to be driven from it by him let him by any meanes prove against me at any time a breach of any union instituted by Jesus Christ and I will promise him that with all speed I will retreate from that state or thing whereby I have so done I must professe to this Reverend Author that I like not the cause he mannages one whit the better for the way whereby he mannageth it We had need watch and pray that we be not lead into temptation seeing we are in some measure not ignorant of the devices of Sathan Now that he may see this door of escape shut up that so he may not need to trouble himselfe any more in taking care least I escape that way when he intends to fall upon me with those blowes which as yet I have not felt I shall shut it fast my selfe beyond all possibility of my opening againe I here then declare unto him that when ever he shall prove that I have broken any union of the institution of Jesus Christ of what sort soever I will not in excuse of my selfe insist on the plea mentioned but will submit to the discipline which shall be thought meet by him to be exercised towards any one offending in that kind yet truely on this engagement I would willingly contract with him that in his next reply he should not deale with me as he hath done in this neither as to my person nor as to the differences between us CHAP. 6. HAving declared and vindicated the Scripture proper notion of Schisme and thence discovered the nature of it with all its aggravations with the mistakes that men have run into who have suited their apprehensions concerâ—ing it unto what was their interests to have it thought to be and opened a way thereby for the furtherance of peace among professors of the Gospell of Jesus Christ for the further security of the consciences of men unjustly accused and charged with the guilt of this evill I proceeded to the consideration of it in the usuall common acceptation of the word and things that so I might obviate what ever with any tollerable pretence is insisted on as deduced by a parity of reason from what is delivered in the Scripture in reference to the charge managed by some or other against all sorts of Protestants Hereupon I grant that it may be looked on in generall as {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} a branch of union so that it be granted also that that union be an union of the institution of Jesus Christ To find out then the nature of Schisme under the consideration of the condescention made and to discover wherein the guilt of it doth consist it is necessary that we find out what that union is and wherein it doth consist whereof it is the brcadth and interruption or is supposed so to be over and above the breach above mentioned and described Now this union being the union of the Church the severall acceptations of the Church in scripture are to be investigated that the union inquired after may be made known The church in scripture being taken either for the Church Catholick or the whole number of elect beleivers in the world for we lay aside the consideration of that part of this great family of God which is already in heaven from this distinction or else for the generall visible body of those who professe the gospell of Christ or for a particular society joining together in the celebration of the ordinances of the new testament instituted by Christ to be so celebrated by theÌ„ The union of it with the breach of that union in these severall respects with the application of the whole to the businesse under consideration was to be enquired after which also was performed I began with the consideration of the Catholick invisible Church of Christ and the union thereof having declared the rise of this distinction and the necessity of it from the nature of the things themselves as to the matter of this church or the church of Christ as here militant on earth I affirme and evince it to be all and only elect believers the union of this church consists in the inhabitation of the same spirit in all the members of it uniting them to the head Christ Jesus and therein to one another The breach of this union I manifested to consist in the losse of that spirit with all the peculiar consequences and effects of him in the hearts of them in whom he dwels This I manifest according to our principles to be impossible and upon a supposition of it how remote it would be from Schisme under any notion or acceptation of the word so closing that discourse with a charge on the Romanists of their distance from
that 's the phraseology this Author in his love to unity delights in have broken the union of their churches which we have no more done then they have broken the union of ours for we began our reformation with them on even tearms and were as early at work as they yet what coulour what excuse can be invented to alleviate the guilt of the latter part of it that we have separated from all the reformed churches as no churches and yet he repeats this again pag. 106. with especiall reflexion on my selfe I wonder not saith he that the Doctor hath unchurched Roome for he hath done as much to England and all forraign protestant churches and makes none to be members of the church but such as are by covenant and consent joyned to some of their congregations Now truly though all righteous laws of men in the world will afford recompence and satisfaction for calumniating accusations and slaunders of much lesse importance then this here publickly ownd by our Reverend Author yet seeing the gospell of the blessed God requires to forgive and passe by greater injuries I shall labour in the strength of his grace to bring my heart unto conformity to his will therein notwithstanding which because by his providence I am in that place and condition that others also that fear his name may be some way concern'd in this unjust imputatiō I must declare that this is open unrighteousness wherein neither love nor truth hath been observed How little I am concernd in his following parallell of Independentisme and Donatisme wherein he proceeds with the same truth and candor or in all that followes thereupon is easy for any one to judg He proceeds to scan my Answers to the Romanists as in reference to their charge of Schisme upon us and saies I do it sutable to my own principles And truly if I had not I think I had been much to blame I referre the Reader to the Answers given in my book and if he like them not notwithstanding this Authors exceptions I wish he may fix on those that please him better in them there given my conscience doth acquiesce But he comes in the next place to Arguments wherein if he prove more happy then he hath done in Accusations he will have great cause to rejoyce By a double Argument as he saies he will prove that there may be Schisme besides that in a particular Church His first is this Schisme is a breach of Union but there may be a breach of union in the Catholick visible church His second this where there are differenccs raysed in matter of faith professed wherein the union of the Catholick Church consists there may be a breach of union but there may be differences in the Catholick or among the members of the Catholick church in matter of faith professed Ergo Having thus laid down his Arguments he falls to conjecture what I will answer and how I will evade but it will quickly appear that he is no lesse unhappy in arguing and conjecturing then he is and was in accusing For to consider his first Argument if he will undertake to make it good as to its forme I will by the same way of arguing ingage my selfe to prove what he would be unwilling to find in a regular conclusion But as to the matter of it 1. Is Schisme every breach of union or is every breach of Union schisme Schisme in the Ecclesiasticall notion is granted to be in the present dispute the breach of the union of a church which it hath by the institution of Christ and this not of any union of Christs institution but of one certaine kind of union for as was proved there is an union whose breach can neither in the language of the Scripture nor in reason nor common sense be called or accounted schisme nor ever was by any man in the world nor can be without destroying the particular nature of schisme and allowing only the generall notion of any separation good or bad in what kind soever So that secondly it is granted not onlie that there may be a breach of union in the Catholick church but also that there may be a breach of the union of the Catholick church by a deniall or relinquishment of the profession wherein it consists but that this breach of union is sehisme because sehisme is a breach of union is as true as that every man who hath two eyes is every thing that hath two eyes For his second it is of the same importance with the first there may be differences in the Catholick church and breaches of union among the members of it which are far enough from the breach of the union of that church as such Two professors may fall out and differ and yet I think continue both of them professors still Paul and Barnabas did so Chrysostome and Epiphanius did so Cyrill and Theodoret did so That which I denied was that the breach of the union of the catholick church as such is Schisme He proves the contrary by affirming there may be differences among the members of the catholick church that do not break the union of it as such But he saies though there be Apostasy or Heresy yet there may be Schisme also but not in respect of the breach of the same union which only he was to prove Besides evill surmizes reproaches false criminations and undue suggestions I find nothing wherein my discourse is concerned to the end of this chap. pag. 109. upon the passage of mine we are thus come off from this part of Schisme for the relinquishment of the Catholick church which we have not done and so to do is not schisme but a sin of another nature and importance he adds that the ground I goe upon why separation from a true church he must meane the catholick church or he speaks nothing at all the businesse in hand is no schisme is that afore mentioned that a schisme in the Scripture notion is onely a division of jugment in a particular assembly But who so blind as they that will not see the ground I proceeded on evidently openly solely was taken from the nature of the Catholick church its union and the breach of that union and if obiter I once mention that notion I do it upon my confidence of its truth which I here againe tender my selfe in a readinesse to make good to this Reverend Author if at any time he will be pleased to command my personall attendance upon him to that purpose To repeat more of the like mistakes and surmizes with the wranglings that ensue on such false suppositions to the end of this chapter is certainly needlesse for my part in and about this whole businesse of separation from the catholick church I had not the least respect to Presbyterians or Independents as such nor to the differences betweē them which alone our Author out of his zeale to truth and peace attends unto If he will fasten the guilt of Schisme on any
A REVIEW of the true Nature of SCHISME WITH A Vindication of the Congregationall Churches in England from the imputation thereof Unjustly charged on them by Mr D. Cawdrey Preacher of the Word at BILLING in NORTHAMPTON-SHIRE By JOHN OWEN D. D. {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} 2 Tim. 2. 24. {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Tit. 1. 7. OXFORD Printed by HENRY HALL Printer to the UNIVERSITY for THOMAS ROBINSON M. DC LVII Christian Reader IT is now about three weekes since that there was sent unto me a book intituled independency a great schisme as the frontispeece farther promiseth undertaken to be mannaged against something written by me in a treatise about the true nature of schisme published about a yeare agoe with an addition of a charge of inconstancy in opinion upon my selfe of the one and the other the ensueing discourse will give a farther and full account Coming unto my hands at such a season wherein as it is knowne I was pressed with more then ordinary occasions of sundry sorts I thought to have deferred the examination of it untill farther leasure might be obtained supposing that some faire advantage would be administred by it to a farther Christian debate of that discovery of truth and tender of peace which in my Treatise I had made Engaging into a cursory perusall of it I found the Reverend Authors designe and discourse to be of that Tendency and nature as did not require nor would admit of any such delay His manifold mistakes in apprehending the intention of my Treatise and of the severalls of it His open presumption of his owne principles as the sourse and spring of what pretends to be argumentative in his discourse arbitrarily inferring from them without the least attempt of proofe whatever tenders its assistance to cast reproach on them with whom he hath to do his neglect in providing a defence for himselfe by any principles not easily turned upon him against the same charge which he is pleased to mannage against me His avowed laying the foundation of his whole fabrick in the sand of notoriously false suppositions quickly delivered me from the thoughts of any necessity to delay the consideration of what he tendred to make good the Title of his discourse The open and manifest injury done not only to my selfe in laying things to my charge which I know not lading me with reproaches tending to a rendring of me odious to all the ministers and Churches in the world not agreeing with me in somefew things concerning Gospell administrations but also to all other Churches and persons of the same judgment with my selfe called for a speedy account of the true state of the things contended about Thou hast therefore here Christian Reader the product through the grace of him who supplyeth seed to the sower of the spare houres of foure or five daies in which space of time this ensuing discourse was begun and finished Expect not therefore any thing from it but what is necessary for the refutation of the book whereunto it is opposed and as to that end and purpose I leave it to thy strictest judgment Only I shall desire thee to take notice that having kept my selfe to a bare defence I have resolvedly forborne all recharge on the Presbyterian way either as to the whole of it whence by way of distinction it is so called or as to the differences in judgment and practise of them who professe that way among themselves which at this day both in this and the neighbour nation are more and greater then any that our Author hath as yet been able to find amongst them whom he doth principally oppose As the ensuing sheets were almost wrought of at the presse there came to my hand a Vindication of that eminent servant of God Mr John Cotton from the unjust imputations and charge of the Reverend person with whom I have now to do written by himselfe not long before his death The opportunity of publishing that discourse with the ensueing being then lost I thought meet to let the Reader know that a short season will furnish him with it Farewell and love truth and peace Ch Ch Coll OXON July 9. 1657. A VINDICATION OF THE TREATISE about the true nature of SCHISME c. CHAP. 1. THe present State of things in the Christian world will on a slight consideration yeeld this account of controversies in Religion that when they are driven to such an issue as by forraigne coincidences to be rēdered the interest of parties at variance there is not any great successe to be obtained by a mannagement of thē though with never so much evidence and conviction of truth An answering of the profession that is on us by a good and lawfull meanes the paying of that homage and tribute we owe to the truth the tendring of assistance to the safe-guarding of some weaker professours thereof from the sophismes and violence of adversaries is the most that in such a posture of things the most sober writers of Controversies can well aime at The winning over of men to the truth we seeke to maintaine where they have beene preingaged in an opposition unto it without the alteration of the outward state of things whence their engagements have insensibly sprung and risen is not ordinarily to be expected How farre I was from any such thoughts in the composing and publishing my Treatise of the nature of Schisme I declared in sundry passages in the treatise its selfe Though the thing contended about whatsoever is pretended to the contrary will not be found amongst the most important heads of our Religion yet knowing how farre on sundry accounts the stated fixed interest of severall sorts of men ingageth them to abide by the principles they owne in reference thereunto I was so farre from hoping to see speedily any visible fruits of the efficacie of the truth I had mannaged that I promised my selfe a vigorous opposition untill some urgent providence or time altering the frame of mens spirits should make way for its acceptance Freely I left it in the hand of him whose truth I have good security I had in weaknesse maintained to dispose of it with its issues and events at his pleasure I confesse knowing severall parties to be concerned in an opposition to it I was not well able to conjecture from what hand the first assault of it would arise Probability cast it on them who looked on themselves in the nearest proximitie of advantage by the common notion of Schisme opposed The truth is I did apprehend my selfe not justly chargeable with want of charity if I thought that opposition would arise from some other principles than mere zeale for a supposed truth and therefore tooke my aime in conjecturing at the prejudices that men might feare themselves and interests obnoxious unto by a reception and establishment of that notion of Schisme which I had asserted Mens contentednesse to make use of their quietnesse in reference to Popery Socinianism Arminianism
from one end of it to the other and called partly in down right termes partly by oblique intimations whose reflections are not to be waved Sathan Atheist Sceptick Donatist Heretick Schismaticke Sectarie Pharisee c. and the closure of the Book is merely an attempt to blast my reputation whereof I shall give a speedy account 2. The professed designe of the whole is to prove Independency as he is pleased to call it which what it is he declares not nor as he mannages the businesse do I know to be a great Schisme and that Independents by whom it is full well knowne whom he intends are Schismaticks Sectaries the troublers of England So that it were happy for the Nation if they were out of it or discovering sanguinary thoughts in reference unto them and these kinds of discourses fill up the booke almost from one end to the other 3. No Christian care doth seeme to have been taken nor good conscience exercised from the beginning to the ending as to imputation of any thing unto me or upon mee that may serve to help on the designe in hand Hence I think it is repeated neare an hundred times that I deny their Ministers to be Ministers their Churches to be Churches that I deny all the reformed Churches in the world but onely our owne as he calls them to be true Churches all which is notoriously untrue contrary to my knowne judgement professedly declared on all occasions contrary to expresse affirmations in the booke he undertakes to confute and the whole designe of the booke its selfe I cannot easily declare my surprizall on this account What am I to expect from others when such Reverend men as this Author shall by the power of prejudice be carried beyond all bounds of moderation and Christian tendernesse in offending I no way doubt but that Sathan hath his designe in this whole businesse He knowes how apt we are to fixe on such provocations and to contribute thereupon to the increase of our differences Can he according to the course of things in the world expect any other issue but that in the necessary defensative I am put upon I should not wave such reflexions and retortions on him and them with whom I have to do as present themselves with as faire pleas and pretences unto me as it is possible for me to judge that the charges before mentioned I meane of Schisme Heresie and the like did unto him For as to a returne of any thing in its owne nature false and untrue as to matter of fact to meet with that of the like kind wherewith I am entertained I suppose the Divell himselfe was hopelesse to obtaine it Is he not filled with envie to take notice in what love without dissimulation I walk with many of the Presbyterian judgment What Christian entercourse and communion I have with them in England Scotland Holland France fearing that it may tend to the furtherance of peace union among the Churches of Christ God assisting I shall deceive his expectations and though I be called Schismatick and Heretick a thousand times it shall not weaken my love or esteeme of or towards any of the godly Ministers or people of that way and judgment with whom I am acquainted or have occasion of converse And for this Reverend Author himself I shall not faile to pray that none of the things whereby he hath I feare administred advantage unto Satan to attempt the exasperations of the spirits of Brethren one against another may ever be laid to his charge For my owne part I professe in all sincerity that such was my unhappinesse or rather happinesse in the constant converse which in sundry places I have with Persons of the Presbyterian judgment both of the English and Scottish Nation utterly of another frame of spirit then that which is now shewed that untill I saw this treatise I did not believe that there had remained in any one godly sober judicious person in England such thoughts of heart in reference to our present differences as are visible and legible therein Tantaené animis coelestibus irae I hope the Reverend Author will not be offended if I make bold to tell him that it will be no joy of heart to him one day that he hath taken paines to cast oyle on those flames which it is every ones duty to labour to extinguish But that the whole matter in difference may be the better stated and determined I shall first passe through with the generall concernments of the book it selfe and then consider the severall Chapters of it as to any particulars in them that may seem to relate to the businesse in hand It may possibly not a little conduce towards the removall of those obstructions unto peace and love laid in our way by this Reverend Author and to a clearer stating of the controversie pretended to be ventilated in his discourse to discover and lay aside those mistakes of his which being interwoven with the main discourse from the beginning to the end seeme as principles to animate the whole and to give it that life of trouble whereof it is partaker Some of them were as absolutely considered remarked before I shall now renew the mention of them with respect to that influence which they have into the Argumentative part of the Treatise under consideration 1. First then it is strenuously supposed all along that I deny all or any Churches in England to be true Churches of Christ except only the Churches gathered in the Congregationall way and upon their principles then that I deny all the reformed Churches beyond the Seas to be true Churches of Christ This supposition being laid as the foundation of the whole building a confutation of my treatise is fixed thereon a comparison is instituted betweene the Donatists and my selfe Arguments are produced to prove their Churches to be true Churches and their Ministers true Ministers The charge of Schisme on this bottome is freely given out and asserted the proofe of my Schismaticall separation from hence deduced and many termes of reproach are returned as a suitable reply to the provocation of this opinion How great a portion of a small treatise may easily be taken up with discourses relating to these heads is easie to apprehend Now lest all this paines should be found to be uselesse and causlesly undergone let us consider how the Reverend Author proves this to be my judgment Doth he evince it from any thing deliver'd in that treatise he undertakes to confute doth he produce any other testimonies out of what I have spoken deliver'd or written else where and on other occasions to make it good This I suppose he thought not of but took it for granted that either I was of that judgment or it was fit I should be so that the difference between us might be as great as he desired to have it appeare to be Well to put an end to this controversie seeing he would not believe what I told the
I am also very remote from mannaging any opposition unto it I thinke it necessary by vertue of precept and that to be continued in a way of succession It is I say according to the mind of Christ that he who is to be ordained unto office in any Church receive imposition of hands from the Elders of that Church if there be any therein And this is to be done in a way of succession that so the Churches may be perpetuated That alone which I oppose is the denying of this successive ordination through the Authority of Antichrist Before the blessed and glorious Reformation begun â—nd carried on by Zuinglius Luther Calvin and others there were and had been two States of men in the world professing the name of Christ and the Gospell as to the outward profession thereof The one of them in glory splendor outward beauty and order calling themselves the Church the only Church in the world the Catholike Church being indeed and in truth in that state wherein they so prided themselves the mother of harlots the beast with his false Prophet The other party poore despised persecuted generally esteemed and called Hereticks Schismaticks or as occasion gave advantage for their farther reproach Waldenses Albigenses Lollards and the like As to the claime of a successive ordination down from the Apostles I made bold to affirme that I could not understand the validity of that successive ordination as successive which was derived downe unto us from and by the first partie of men in the world This Reverend Authors reply hereunto is like the rest of his discourse pag. 118. He tels me this casts dirt in the face of their Ministry as do all their good friends the Sectaries and that he hath much a doe to forbeare saying The Lord rebuke thee How he doth forbeare it having so expressed the frame of his heart towards me others will judge the searcher of all hearts knowes that I had no designe to cast dirt on him or any other godly man's ministry in England Might not another answer have been returned without this wrath This is so or it is not so in reference to the ministry of this Nation If it be not so and they plead not their successive ordination from Rome there is an end of this difference If it be so can Mr. C. hardly refraine from calling a man Sathan for speaking the truth It is well if we know of what spirit we are But let us a little farther consider his answer in that place He asketh first Why may not this be a sufficient foundation for their Ministry as well as for their Baptisme if it be so be so acknowledged whence is that great provocation that arose from my enquiry after it For my part I must tell him that I judge their Baptisme good and valid but to deale clearly with him not on that foundation I cannot believe that that Idolater murtherer man of sin had since the dayes of his open Idolatry persecution and enmity to Christ any authority more or lesse from the Lord Jesus committed to him in or over his Churches But he addes secondly That had they received their ordination from the woman flying into the wildernesse the two witnesses or Waldenses it had been all one to mee and my party for they had not their ordination from the people except some extraordinary cases but from a Presbytery according to the institution of Christ So then ordination by a Presbytery Is it seemes opposed by me and my party but I pray Sir who told you so when wherein by what meanes have I opposed it I acknowledge my selfe of no party I am sory so grave a Minister should suffer himselfe to be thus transported that every answer every reply must be a reflection and that without due observation of truth and love That-those first reformers had their Ordination from the people is acknowledged I have formerly evinced it by undeniable testimony So that the proper succession of a Ministry amongst the Churches that are their off-spring runs up no higher than that rise Now the good Lord blesse them in their Ministry and the successive ordination they enjoy to bring forth more fruit in the earth to the praise of his glorious grace But upon my disclaiming all thoughts of rejecting the ministry of all those who yet hold their ordination on the accompt of its successive derivation from Rome he cries out egregiam verò laudem and saies that yet I secretly derive their pedigree from Rome well then he doth not so why then what need these exclamations we are as to this matter wholly agreed nor shall I at present farther pursue his discourse in that place it is almost totally composed and made up of scornefull revilings reflections and such other ingredients of the whole He frequently very positively affirms without the least hesitation that I have renounced my own ordination adds hereunto that what ever else they pretend unlesse they renounce their ordination nothing will please me that I condemn all other Churches in the world as no Churches but who I pray told him these things did he enquire so far after my mind in them as without breach of charity to be able to make such positive and expresse assertions concerning them A good part of his book is taken up in the repetition of such things as these drawing inferences and conclusions from the suppositions of them and warming himselfe by them into a great contempt of my selfe and party as he calls them I am now necessitated to tell him that all these things are false and utterly in part and in whole untrue and that he is not able to prove any one of them And whether this kind of dealing becomes a minister of the Gospell a person professing Godlinesse I leave it to himselfe to judge For my owne part I must confesse that as yet I was never so dealt withall by any man of what party soever although it hath been my unhappinesse to provoke many of them I do not doubt but that he will be both troubled and ashamed when he shall review these things That whole Chapter which he entitles Independentisme is Donatisme as to his application of it unto me or any of my perswasion is of the same importance as I have sufficiently already evinced I might instance in sundry other particulars wherein he ventures without the least check or supposition to charge me with what he pleaseth that may serve the turn in hand so that it may serve to bring in he and his party are Schismaticks are Sectaries have separated from the church of God are the cause of all our evills and troubles with the like tearmes of reproach and hard censures lying in a faire subserviency to a designe of widening the difference between us and mutually exasperating the spirits of men professing the Gospell of Jesus Christ one against another nothing almost comes amisse His sticking upon by matters diverting from the maine
he will yet proceed and Sec. 13. informe his Reader that in that Treatise I aver that two things are required in a teacher as to formall ministeriall teaching 1. Gifts from God 2 Authority frō the Church well what then I am of the same mind still but now I cry down ordination by Presbytery what is not this a great alteration and signe of inconstancy Truly Sir there is more need of humiliation in your selfe then triumphing against me for the assertion is most untrue and your charge altogether groundlesse which I desire you would be satisfied in and not to be led any more by evill surmises to wrong mee and your owne soule He addes sect. 14. two cautions which in that treatise I give to private Christians in the exercise of their gifts and closeth the last of them with a Juvenile Epiphonema divinely spoken and like a true Presbyterian and yet there is not one word in either of these cautions that I do not still own and allow which confirmes the unhappinesse of the charge Of all that is substantiall in any thing that followes I affirme the same as to all that which is gone before Onely as to the liberty to be allowed unto them which meet in private who cannot in conscience joyne in the Celebration of publike ordinances as they are performed amongst us I confesse my selfe to be otherwise minded at present than the words there quoted by this Author do expresse But this is nothing to the difference between Presbytery and independency and he that can glory that in 14. yeares he hath not altered or improved in his conception of some things of no greater importance then that mentioned shall not have me for his rivall And this is the summe of M◠C. Appendix the discourse whereof being carried on with such a temper of spirit as it is and suited to the advantage aimed at by so many evill surmises false suggestions and uncharitable reflections I am perswaded the taking of that paines will one day be no joy of heart unto him CHAP. 3. A Review of the chargers Preface HIs first chapter consists for the most part in a repetition of my words or so much of the discourse of my first Chapter as he could wrest by cutting off one and another parcell of it from its coherence in the whole with the interposure of glosses of his own to serve him to make biting reflexions upōthem with whom he hath to deale How unbecoming such a course of procedure is for a person of his worth gravity and profession perhaps his {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} have by this time convinced him If men have a mind to perpetuate controversies unto an endlesse fruitlesse reciprocation of words and cavils if to provoke to easie and facile retorsions if to heighten and aggravate differences beyond any hope of reconciliation they may do wel to deale after this manner with the writings of one another Mr. C. knowes how easie it were to make his owne words dresse him up in all those ornaments wherein he labours to make me appeare in the world by such glosses inversions additions and interpositions as he is pleased to make use of but meliora speramus Some particulars that seem to be of any importance to our businesse in hand may be remarked as we passe through it pag. 1. He tels us the Donatists had two principles 1. that they were the onely Church of Christ in a corner of Africk and left no Church in the world but their owne 2. That none were truly baptized or entred members of the Church of Christ but by some Minister of their party These Principles he saies are againe improved by men of another party whom though yet he name not yet it is evident whom he intends and pag 3. he requires my judgement of those principles Because I would not willingly be wanting in any thing that may tend to his satisfaction though I have some reason to conjecture at my unhappinesse in respect of the event I shall with all integrity give him my thoughts of the principles expresséd above 1. Then if they were considered in reference to the Donatists who owned them I say they were wicked corrupt erroneous principles tending to the disturbance of the communion of Saints and everting all the rules of love that our Lord Jesus Christ hath given to his disciples and servants to observe if he intend my judgment of them in reference to the Churches of England which he calls independent I am sorry that he should thinke he hath any reason to make this inquiry I know not that man in the world who is lesse concerned in obteining Countenance to those principles then I am Let them who are so ready on all occasions or provocations to cast abroad the solemne formes of reproach Schismaticks Sectaries Hereticks and the like search their owne hearts as to a conformity of spirit unto these principles It is not what men say but what men doe that they shall be judged by As the Donatists were not the first who in story were charged with Schisme no more was their Schisme confined to Africk The agreement of multitudes in any principles makes it in its selfe not one whit better and in effect worse For my part I acknowledge the Churches in England Scotland and France Helvetia the netherlands Germany Greece Muscovia c. as far as I know of them to be true Churches such for ought I know may be in Italy or Spaine and what pretence or colour this Reverend person hath to fix a contrary perswasion upon me with so many odious imputations and reflections of being one of the Restorers of all lost Churches and the like I professe I know not These things will not be peace in the latter end shall the sword devour for ever I dare not suppose that he will aske why then do I separate from them he hath read my booke of Schisme wherein I have undeniably proved that I have separated from none of them and I am loath to say though I feare before the close of my discourse I shall be compelled to it that this Reverend Author hath answered a matter before he understood it confuted a book whose maine and chiefe designe he did not once apprehend The rest of this chapter is composed of reflections upon me from my owne words wrested at his pleasure and added to according to the purpose in hand and the taking for granted unto that end that they are in the right we in the wrong that their Churches are true churches and yet not esteemed so by me that we have separated from those churches with such like easie suppositions He is troubled that I thought the mutuall chargings of each other with Schisme between the Presbyterians and Independents was as to its heat abated and ready to vanish wherein he hath invincibly compelled me to acknowledge my mistake and I assure him I am heartily sorry that I was mistaken it will not be
separation into parties in the politicall use of the word why it may not so be used in the ecclesiasticall sense I see no reason but if this be the way of begging the Question I confesse I know not what course to take to prove what I intend Such words are used sometimes in warm disputes causelessely it were well they were placed where there is some pretence for them Certainly they will not serve every turne Before I asserted the use of the word I instanced in all the places where it is used and evinced the sense of it from them if this be begging it is not that lazy trade of begging which some use but such as a man had as good professedly worke as follow How well he hath disproved this sense of the word from Scripture we have seen I am not concerned in his seeing no reason why it may not be used in the ecclesiasticall sense according to his conception my enquiry was how it was used not how it might be used in this Reverend Authors judgment And this is the substance of all that is offered to overthrow that principle which if it abide and stand he must needs confesse all his following pains to be to no purpose He sees no reason but it may be as he saies After the declaration of some such suspitions of his as we are now wonted unto and which we cannot deny him the liberty of expressing though I professe he do it unto my injurie he saies this is the way on the one hand to free all church-separation from schisme and on the other to make all particular churches more or lesse inschismaticall well the first is denyed what is offer'd for the confirmation of the second saith he what one congregation almost is there in the world where there are not differences of judgment whence ensue many troubles about the compassing of one common end and designe I doubt whether his owne be free therefore If my testimony may remove his scruple I assure him through the grace of God hitherto it hath been so and I hope it is so with multitudes of other Churches those with whome it is otherwise it will appear at last to be more or lesse blameable on the account of Schisme Omitting my farther explication of what I had proposed he passes unto p. 27. of my book and thence transcribes these words they had differences among themselves about unnecessary things on these they engaged into disputes and sidings even in the solemne assemblies probably much vaine janglings alienation of affections exasperations of spirit with a neglect of due offices of love ensued hereupon whereunto he subjoines that the Apostle charges this upon them is true but was that all were there not divisions into parties as well as in judgments we shall consider that ere long But I am sorry he hath waved this proper place of the consideration of this important assertion the truth is hic pes figâ—ndus if he remove not this position he labours in vain for the future I desire also to know what he intends by divisions into parties if he intend that some were of one party some of another in these divisions and differences it is granted there can-be no difference in judgment amongst men but they must on that account be divided into parties but if he intend thereby that they divided into severall churches assemblies or congregations any of them setting up new churches on a new account or separating from the publick assemblies of the church whereof they were and that their so doing is reproved by the Apostle under the name of Schisme then I tell him that this is that indeed whose proofe is incumbent on him Faile he herein the whole foundation of my discourse continues firme and unshaken the truth is I cannot meet with any one attempt to prove this which alone was to be proved if he intended that I should be any farther concerned in his discourse then onely to find my selfe revil'd and abused Passing over what I produce to give light and evidence unto my assertion he proceeds to the consideration of the observations and inferences I make upon it p. 29. and onward The first he insists upon is that the thing mentioned is entirely in one Church amongst the members of one particular society no mention is made of one church divided against another or separated from another To this he replies 1. that the church of Corinth was a collective church made up of many congregations and that I my selfe confesse they had solemne assemhlies not one assembly onely that I beg the Question by taking it for one single congregation But I suppose one particular congregation may have more then one solemne assembly even as many as are the times wherein they solemnly assemble 2. I supposed I had proved that it was only one congregation that used to assemble in one place that the Apostle charged this crime upon and that this Reverend Author was pleased to overlook what was produced to that purpose I am not to be blamed 3. Here is another discovery that this Reverend person never yet clearly understood the designe of my treatise nor the principles I proceed upon Doth he think it is any thing to my present businesse whither the church of Corinth were such a church as Presbyterians suppose it to be or such a one as the Independents affirme it whilst all ackowledge it to be one church be that particular church of what kind it will if the Schisme rebuked by the Apostle consisted in division in it and not in separation from it as such I have evinced all that I intended by the Observation under consideration Yet this he againe persues and tells me that there were more particular churches in and about Corinth as that at Cenchrea and that their differences were not confined to the verge of one church for there were differences abroad out of the Church and saies that at unawares I confess that they disputed from house to house and in the publick assemblies but I will assure the Reverend Author I was aware of what I said Is it possible he should suppose that by the verge of one Church I intended the meeting place and the assembly therein was it at all incumbent on me to prove that they did not manage their differences in private as well as in publick is it likely any such thing should be did I deny that they sided and made parties about their divisions and differences is it any thing to me or to any thing I affirme how where and when they managed their disputes and debated their controversies it is true there is mention of a church at Cenchrea but is there any mention that that church made any separation from the church of Corinth or that the differences mention'd were between the members of these severall churches is it any thing to my present designe though there were 20 particular congregations in Corinth supposing that on any consideration they were one Church
discipline instituted by Christ is corrupted among them with which corruption he dares not defile himselfe is no where in the Scripture called Schisme nor is that case particularly exemplified or expressely supposed whereby a Judgment may be made of the fact at large but we are left upon the whole matter to the guidance of such generall rules and principles as are given us for that end and purpose Such is my meanesse of apprehension that I could not understand but that either this assertion must be subscribed unto as of irrefragable verity or else that instances to the contrary must have been given out of the Scripture for on that hinge alone doth this present controversie and that by consent turne it selfe But our Reverend Author thinks good to take another course for which his reasons may easily be conjectured and excepts against the assertion it selfe in Generall first as ambiguous and fallacious And then also intimates that he will scan the words in perticular Mihi jussa capessere c. 1. He saies that I tell not whither a man may separate where there is corruption in some one of these onely or in all of them nor 2. How farre some or all of these must be corrupted before we separate A. This is no small vanity under the sunne that men will not onely measure themselves by themselves but others also by their own measure Our Author is still with his finger in the sore and therefore supposes that others must needs take the same course Is there any thing in my assertion whither a man may separate from any church or no any thing upon what Corruption he may lawfully so do any thing of stating the difference betwixt the Presbiterians and Independants do I at all fix it on this foâ—t of account when I come so to doe I humbly beg of this Author that if I have so obscurely and intricately delivered my selfe and meaning that he cannot come to the understanding of my designe nor import of my expressions that he would favour me with a command to explain my selfe before he engage into a publicke refutation of what he doth not so clearly apprehend Alas I do not in this place in the least intend to justify any separation nor to shew what pleas are sufficient to justify a separation nor what corruption in the church separated from is necessary thereunto nor at all regard the controversie his eye is allwaies on but onely declare what is not comprised in the precise Scripture notion of Schisme as also how a Judgment is to be made of that which is so by me excluded whither it be good or evill Would he have been pleased to have spoken to the businesse in hand or any thing to the present purpose it must not have been by an inquiry into the grounds reasons of separation how farre it may be justified by the plea mentioned or how farre not when that plea is to be allowed and when rejected but this only was incumbent on him to prove namely that such a separation upon that plea or the like is called Schisme in the Scripture and as such a thing condemned What my concernment is in the ensuing observations that the Judaicall Church was as corrupt as ours that if a bare plea true or false will serve to justifie men all separatists may be justified he himselfe will easily perceive But however I cannot but tell him by the way that he who will dogmatize in this controversy from the Judaicall Church and the course of proceedings amongw them to the direction and limitation of duty as to the churches of the Gospel considering the vast important differences between t he constitutions of the one the other with the infallible obligation to certain principles on the account of the typicall institution in that Primitive Church when there neither was nor could be any more in the world must expect to bring other Arguments to compasse his designe then the analogie pretended For the justification of Separatists of the reason if it will ensue upon the examination for separation and the circumstances of the seperating whereunto I referre them let it follow and let who will complain But to fill up the measure of the mistake he is ingaged in he tells us pag. 75. that this is the pinch of the question whither a man or a company of men may separate from a true Church upon a plea of CorruptioÌ„ in it true or false set up another Church as to ordinances renouncing that Church to be a true Church This saith he is plainely our case at present with the Doctor and his Associates truly I do not know that ever I was necessitated to a more sad and fruitlesse imployment in this kind of labour and travaile Is that the question in present agitation is any thing word title or iota spoken to it is it my present businesse to state the difference between the Presbyterians and Independents do I anywhere do it upon this account do I not every where positively deny that there is any such separation made nay can common honesty allow such a state of a question if that were the businesse in hand to be put upon me are their ordinances and churches so denied by me as is pretended what I have often said must again be repeated The Reverend Author hath his eye so fixed on the difference between the Presbyterians and the Independants that he is at every turn lead out of the way into such mistakes as it was not possible he should otherwise be overtaken withall this is perhaps mentis gratissimus error But I hope it would be no death to him to be delivered from it When I laid downe the principles which it was his good will to oppose I had many things under consideration as to the settling of Conscience in respect of manifold oppositions and to tell him the truth least valued that which he is pleased to mannage and to look upon as my sole intendment if it be not possible to deliver him from this strong imagination that carries the images and species of Independency alwaies before his eies we shall scarce speak ad idem in this whole discourse I desire then that he would take notice that as the state of the controversy he proposes doth no more relate to that which peculiarly is pretended to ly under his consideration then any other thing whatever that he might have mentioned so when the peculiar difference between him and the Independents comes to be mannaged scarce any one terme of his state will be allowed Exceptions are in the next place attempted to be put in to my assertion that there is no example in the Scripture of any one Churches departure from the union which they ought to hold with others unlesse it be in some of their departures from the common faith which is not Schisme much with the same successe as formerly let him produce one instance and En Herbam I grant the Roman church on a
trouble of a Rejoinder His first attempt in this chapter is upon a short discourse of mine in my processe which I professe not to be needfull to the purpose in hand relating to some later disputes about the nature of this Church wherein some had affirmed it to be a Genus to particular churches which are so many distinct species of it and others that it was a totum made up of particular churches as its parts both which in some sense I denyed partly out of a desire to keep off all debates about the things of God frō being enwrapped and agitated in and under Philosophicall notions and faigned tearms of Art which hath exceedingly multiplied controversies in the world and rendred them endlesse and doth more or lesse streighten or oppose every truth that is so dealt withall partly because I evidently saw men deducing false consequents from the supposition of such notions of this Church for the first way our Reverend Author lets it passe onely with a remarke upon my dissenting from Mr Hooker of New England which he could not but note by the way although he approves what I affirme A worthy note as though all the brethren of the Presbyterian way were agreed among themselves in all things of the like importance or that I were in my judgment enthralled to any man or men so that it should deserve a note when I dissent from them Truly I blesse God I am utterly unacquainted with any such frame of spirit or bondage of mind as must be supposed to be in them whose dissent from other men is a matter of such observation One is my Master to whom alone my heart and judgement are in subjection for the latter I do not say absolutely that particular Churches are not the parts of the Catholique visible in any sense but that they are not so parts of it as such so that it should be constituted made up by thē of thē for the order and purpose of an instituted Church for the celebration of the worship of God and institutions of Christ according to the Gospell which when our Author proves that it is I shall acknowledge my selfe obliged to him He saies indeed that it was once possible that all the members of the Catholique Church should meet together to heare one sermon c. But he is to prove that they were bound to do so as that Catholique Church and not that it was possible for all the members of it under any other notion or consideration so to convene But he saies they are bound to do so still but that the multitude makes it impossible Credat Apella that Christ hath bound his Church to that which himselfe makes impossible Neither are they so bound they are bound by his own acknowledgement to be members of particular Churches in that capacity are they bound so to convene those churches being by the will of God appointed for the seat of ordinances And so what he adds in the next place of particular Churches being bound according to the institution of Christ to assemble for the celebration of ordinances is absolutely destructive of the former figment But he would know a reason why 40 or more that are not members of one particular church but only of the Catholick meeting together may not join together in all ordinances as well as they may meet to heare the word preached and often doe to which I answer that it is because Jesus Christ hath appointed particular Churches and there is more required to them then the occasionall meeting of some any or all if possible of the members of the Catholick church as such will afford His reflexions upon my selfe added in that place are now growne so common that they deserve not any notice In his ensuing discourse if I may take leave to speak freely to our Reverend Author he wrangles about termes and expressions adding to and altering those by me used in this businesse at his pleasure to make a talke to no purpose The summe of what he pretends to oppose is that this universall church or the universality of Professors considered as such neither formally as members of the church Catholick mistically Elect nor as any members of any Particular Church have not as such any Church forme of the institution of Christ by virtue whereof they should make up one instituted Church for the end and purpose of the celebration of the Ordinances of the Gospell therein If he suppose he can prove the contrary let him cease from cavilling at words and by expressions which is a facile taske for any man to engage in and no way usefull but to make controversies endlesse and answer my Reasons against it which here he passeth over and produce his testimonies and arguments for that purpose This triviall ventilation of particular passages cut off from their influence into the whole is not worth a nut-shell but is a businesse fit for them who have nothing else to employ themselves about Coming to consider the union that I assigne to this Church after whose breach an enquiry is to be made which is the maine and only thing of his concernment as to the aime he hath proposed to himselfe he passeth it over very slightly taking no notice at all of my whole discourse frō p. 116. top 133. of my treatise wherein I disprove the pretensions of other things to be the union or bond of union to this church he fixes a very little while on what I assigne to be that union This I say is profession of the faith of the Gospell and subjection to Jesus Christ according to it to which he adds that they are bound to more then this viz to the exercise of the same specificall Ordinances as also to love one another to subjection to the same discipline and where it is possible to the exercise of the same numericall worship All this was expresly affirm'd by me before it is all virtually contained in their profession so far as the things mentioned are revealed in the Gospell only as to the celebrating of the same numericall Ordinances I cannot grant that they are obliged hereunto as formally considered members of that Church nor shall untill our Reverend Author shall think meet to prove that particular congregations are not the institutions of Jesus Christ But hereupon he affirms that that is a strange assertion used by me pa 117. namely that if there be not an institution of joining in the same numericall ordinances the union of this Church is not really a Church union This is no more but what was declared before nor more then what I urged the testimony of a learned Presbyterian for no more but this that the universality of Christians throughout the world are not under such an institution as that to assemble together for the celebration of the same numericall Ordinances the pretence of any such institution being supplied by Christ's acknowledged institutiō of particular Churches for that purpose What I have offered
to church priviledges they are indeed in some places as to providentiall advantages of hearing the word preached but woe unto them on that account it shall be more tolerable for Mahumetans in that day of Christ then for them shall their Baptisme availe them though it were valid in its administration that is was celebrated in obedience to the cōmād of Christ is it not null to thē is not their circumcision uncircūcision shall such persons give their children any right to church priviledges let them if you please be so subjects to Christ as Rebells and Traitors are subject to their earthly princes they ought indeed to be so but are they so do they owne their Authority are they obedient to them do they enjoy any priviledge of Lawes or doth the Apostle anywhere call such persons as live in a course of wickednesse manifesting principles utterly inconsistent with the profession of the Gospell brethren God forbid we should once imagine these things so to be And so much for that chapter CHAP. VIII Of Independentisme and Donatisme THe Title of our Authors book is Independency a great Schisme of this chapter that it may be the better known what kind of schisme it is Independentisme is Donatisme Men may give what title they please to their books and chapters though perhaps few books make good their titles I am sure this doth not as yet nisi accusasse sufficiat Attempts of proof we have not as yet met withall what this chapter will furnish us withall we shall now consider He indeed that shall weigh the title Independentisme is Donatisme then casting his eye upon the first lines of the chapter it selfe find that the Reverend Author saies he cannot but acknowledge that what I plead for the vindication of protestants from the charge of schisme in their separation from Rome as the Catholick church to be rationall solid and judicious will perhaps be at a losse in conjecturing how I am like to be dealt withall in the following discourse a little patience will let him see that our Author laies more weight upon the Title then the preface of this chapter and that with all my fine trappings I am enrolled in the black booke of the Donatists but 1 quod fo rs feret feramus aequo animo or as another saith debemus optare optima cogitare difficulima ferre quaecunque erunt as the case is fallen out we must deal with it as we can 1. He saith he is not satisfied that he not only denies the Church of Rome so called to be a particular Church pag. 154. but also affirms it to be no Church at all That he is not satisfied with what I affirm of that Synagogue of Sathan where he hath his throne I cannot helpe it though I am sorry for it I am not also without some trouble that I cannot understand what he means by placeing my words so as to intimate that I say not only that the church of Rome is no particular church but also that it is no church at all as though it might in his judgment or mine be any Church if it be not a particular church For I verily suppose neither he nor I judg it to be that Catholick Church whereto it pretends But yet as I have no great reason to expect that this Reverend Author should be satisfied in any thing that I affirme so I hope that it is not impossible but that without any great difficulty he may be reconciled to himselfe affirming the very same thing that I do p. 113. It is of Rome in that sence wherein it claims it self to be a church that I speak in that sence he saies it is no church of Christs institution and so for my part I account it no church at all but he adds that he is far more unsatisfied that I undertake the cause of the Donatists and labour to exempt them from Schisme though I allow them guilty of other crimes But do I indeed undertake the cause of the Donatists do I plead for thē will he manifest it by saying more against them in no more words then I haved one do I labour to exempt them from Schisme are these the waies of peace love and truth that the Reverend Author walks in do I not condemne all their practises and pretensions from the beginning to the end can I not speak of their cause in Reference to the Catholick Church and its union but it must be affirmed that I plead for them But yet as if righteousnesse and truth had been observ'd in this crimination he undertakes as of a thing granted to give my grounds of doing what he affirms me to have done The first is as he saies His singular notion of Schisme limiting it only to differences in a particular Assembly 2. His jealousy of the charge of Schisme to be objccted to himselfe and party if separating from the true Churches of Christ be truly called Schisme A. What may I expect from others when so grave and Reverend a person as this Author is reported to be shall thus deal with me Sr I have no singular notion of Schisme but embrace that which Paul hath long since declared nor can you manifest any difference in my notion from what he hath delivered nor is that notion of Schisme at all under consideration in Reference to what I affirme of the Donatists who in truth were concerned in it the most of them to them to the utmost but the union of the Church Catholick and the breach thereof Neither am I jealous or fearfull of the charge ' of Schisme from any person living on the earth and least of all from men proceeding in church affaires upon the principles you proceed on Had you not been pleased to have supposed what you please without the least ground or colour or reason perhaps you would have as little satisfyed your selfe in the charge you have undertaken to manage against me as you have done many good men as the case now stands even of your own judgment in other things Having made this entrance he proceeds in the same way and pag. 164. laye's the foundation of the title of his booke this chapter of his charge of donatisme in these words This lies in full force against him and his party who have broken the union of our churches and separated themselves from all the protestant churches in the world not of their own constitution and that as no true churches of Christ this I say is the foundatiō of his whole ensuing discourse all the groūd that he hath to stand upon in the defence of the Invidious title of this chapter and what fruit he expects from this kind of proceeding I know not The day will manifest of what sort this work is Although he may have some mistaken apprehensions to countenance his conscience in the first part of his assertion or that it may be forgiven to inveterate praejudice though it be false namely that I and my party
of church members of the right of the members of the Catholick church to all ordinances of the miscarriage of the Independents of church Matriculations and such like things not once considered by me in my proposall of the matter in hand are fallen upon By the way he fals upon my judgment about the inhabitation of the Spirit calls it an error and saies so it hath been reputed by all that are orthodox raising terrible suspitions and intimations of judgments on our way from God by my falling into that error when yet I say no more then the Scripture saith in expresse tearms forty times for which I referre him to what I have written on that subject wherein I have also the concurrence of Polanus Bucanus Dorchetus with sundry others Lutherans and Calvinists It may be when he hath seriously weighed what I have offered to the clearing of that glorious truth of the Gospell he may entertain more gentle thoughts both concerning it and mee The rest of the chapter I have passed thorow once and againe and cannot fix on any thing worthy of farther debate A difference is attempted to be found in my description of the union of a particular Church in this and another place because in one place I require the consent of the members to walke together in another mention only their so doing when the mention of that only was necessary in that place not speaking of it absolutely but as it is the difference of such a church from the church Catholick some impropriety of expression is pretended to be discovered id populus curat scilicet which yet is a pure mistake of his not considering unto what especiall end and purpose the words are used He repeats sundry things as in opposition to me that are things laid down by my selfe and granted Doth he attempt to prove that the union of a Church is not rightly stated he confesseth the form of such a Church consists in the obscrvance and performance of the same ordinances of worship numerically I aske is it the command of Christ that believers should so doe is not their obedience to that command their consent so to do are not particular churches instituted of Christ is it not the duty of every believer to join himselfe to some one of them was not this acknowledged above can any one do so without his consenting to do so is this consent any thing but his voluntary submission to the ordinances of worship therein As an expresse consent and subjection to Christ in generall is required to constitute a man a member of the Church Catholick visible so if the Lord Jesus hath appointed any particular church for the celebration of his ordinances is not their consent who are to walke in them necessary thereunto But the Topick of an explicite covenant presenting its selfe with an advantage to take up some leaves would not be waved though nothing at all to the purpose in hand After this my confession made in as much condescension unto compliance as I could well imagine of the use of greater assēblies is examined and excepted against as being in my esteem he saith though it be not so indeed a matter of prudence only But I know full well that he knows not what esteeme or disesteem I have of sundry things of no lesse importance The consideration of my postulata proposed in a preparation to what was to be insisted on in the next Chapter as influenced from the foregoing dissertations alone remaines and indeed alone deserve our notice My first is this The departing of any man or men from any particular Church as to the communion peculiar to such a Church is no where called Schisme nor is so in the nature of the thing it selfe but is a thing to be judged and recieve a title according to the circumstances of it to this he adjoines this is not the Question a simple secessiō of a man or mē upon some just occasion is not called schisme but to make causless differences in a Church and then separating from it as no Church denying communion with it hath the nature and name of schisme in all mens judgments but his own An. What Question doth our Reverend Author meane I feare he is still fancying of the difference between Presbyterians and Independents and squaring all things by that Imagination whether it be a Question stated to his mind or no I cannot tell but it is an assertion expressive of mine owne which he may do well to disprove if he can Who told him that raising causlesse differences in a Church and then separating from it is not in my judgment schisme May I possibly retaine hopes of making my selfe understood by this Reverend Author I suppose though that a pertinacious abiding in a mistake is neither schisme nor heresy And so this may be passed over My second is one Church refusing to hold that communion with another which ought to be between them is not Schisme properly so called The reply hereunto is twofold 1. That one Church may raise differences in and with another church and so cause Schisme 2 That the Independents deny any communion of churches but what is prudentiall and so that communion cannot be broken To the first I have spoken sufficiently before the latter is but an harping on the same string I am not speaking of Independent churches nor upon the principles of Independents much lesse on them which are imposed on them Let the Reverend Author suppose or aver what communion of churches he pleaseth my position holds in reference to it nor can he disprove it however for my part I am not acquaintcd with those Independents who allow no communion of churches but what is prudentiall and yet it is thought that I know as many as this Reverend Author doth Upon the last proposall we are wholly agreed so that I shall not need to repeat it only he gives me a sad farewell at the close of the Chapter which must be taken notice of is saith he not the design of his book to prove if he could and condemne us as no churches let the world be judge and I say let all the saints of God judge and Jesus Christ will judge whither I have not outragious injury done me in this imputation but saith he unless this be proved he can never justify his separatiō Sr. when your our brethren told the Bishops they thanked God they were none of them and defied the Prelaticall church did they make a separation or no were they guilty of Schisme I suppose you will not say so nor do I yet have I done any such thing in reference to you or your churches I have no more separated from you then you have done from me and as for the distance which is between us upon our disagreement about the way of reformation let all the churches of God judge on which side it hath been managed with more breach of love on yours or mine Let me assure you Sir through
by the free grace of God received our new birth through the preaching of the word neither they nor we as to the practice of our waies were in England so that their concernment as such in the concession is very small and we hope since in respect of others our owne ministry hath not been altogether fruitlesse though we make no comparison with them In rendring of the next passage which is concerning anabaptists and anabaptisme I shall not contend with him he hath not in the least impaired the truth of what I assert in reference to them and their way I cannot but take notice of that passage which for the substance of it hath so often occurred and that is this doth not himselfe labor in this booke to prove that the administration of ordinances in our assemblies is null our ordination null and antichristian For the proofe of which suggestion he referrs his Reader to page 197 of my book I confesse seeing this particular quotation I was somewhat surprised and began to feare that some expression of mine though contrary to my professed judgment might have given countenance to this mistake and so be pleaded as a Justification of all the uncharitablenesse and something else wherewith his book is replenished but turning to the place I was quickly delivered from my trouble though I must ingeniously confesse I was cast into another which I shall not now mention Page 167. we arrive at that which alone almost I expected would have been insisted on and quite contrary thereto it is utterly waved namely the wholebusinesse of a nationall Church upon which account indeed all the pretence of the charge this reverend Author is pleased to mannage doth arise Take that out of the way and certainly they and we are upon even termes and if we will be judged by them who were last in possession of the Reiglement of that church upon supposition that there is such a church still they are no more Interested in it then we yea are as guilty of schisme from it as we But that being set aside and particular churches only remaining It will be very difficult for him to raise the least pretence of his great charge But let us consider what he thinks meete to fasten on in that discourse of mine about a nationall church The first thing is my inquiry whether the denyall of the Institution of a nationall church which he pleads not for doth not deny in consequence that we had either ordinances or ministry amongst us to which I say that though it seemes so to do yet indeed it doth not because there was then another church state even that of particular churches amongst us with many kind reflections of my renouncing my ministry and rejecting of my jejune and empty vindication of their ministry which yet is the very same that himselfe fixes on he asks me how I can in my conscience beleive that there were any true ministers in this church in the time of its being nationall and so proceeds to inferre from hence my denying of all ministry and ordinances among them Truly though I were more to be despised then I am if that be possible yet it were not common prudence for any man to take so much paines to make me his enemy whether I will or no He cannot but know that I deny utterly that ever we had indeed whatever men thought a nationall church for I grant no such thing as a nationall church in the present sense contended about That in England under the rule of the prelates when they looked on the church as nationall there were true churches and true ministers though in much disorder as to the way of entring into the ministry and Dispensing of ordinances I grant freely which is all this reverend Author If I understand him pleads for and this he saies I was unwilling to acknowledge lest I should thereby condemne my selfe as a schismatick Truly in the many sad differences and divisions that are in the world amongst Christians I have not been without sad and jealous thoughts of heart lest by any doctrine or practise of mine I should occasionally contribute any thing unto them If it hath been otherwise with this Author I envy not his frame of spirit But I must freely say that having together with them weighed the reasons for them I have been very little moved with the clamorous accusations and insinuations of this Author In the meane time if it be possible to give him satisfaction I here let him know that I assent unto that summe of all he hath to say as to the Church of England namely that the true and faithfull ministers with the people in their severall congregations administring the true ordinances of Jesus Christ whereof baptisme is one was and is the true Church state of England from which I am not separated nor do I think that some addition of humane prudence or Imprudence can disanull the ordinances of Jesus Christ upon the disavower made of any other nationall Church state and the assertion of this to answer all intents and purposes I suppose now that the Reverend Author knowes that it is incumbent on him to prove that we have been members of some of these particular Churches in due order according to the mind of Christ to all intents and purposes of Church membership and that we have in our Individuall persons raised causelesse differences in those particular churches whereof we were members respectively and so separated from them with the condemnation of them or else according to his owne principles he failes in his brotherly conclusion {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} I suppose the reader is weary of pursuing things so little to our purpose if he will hear any further that Independents are schismaticks that the setting up of their way hath opened a door to all evills and confusions that they have separated from all churches and condemne all churches in the world but their owne that they have hindred Reformation and the setting up of the Presbyterian Church that being members of our Churches as they are members of the nation because they are borne in it yet they have deserted them that they gather Churches which they pretend to be spick and span new they have separated from us that they countenance Quakers and all other Sectaries that they will reforme a nationall church whether men will or no though they say that they only desire to reforme themselves and plead for liberty to that end If any man I say have a mind to read or heare of this any more let him read the rest of this chapter or else converse with some persons whom I can direct him to who talke at this wholsome rate all the day long What seems to be my particular concernment I shall a little further attend unto Some words for that is the manner of mannaging this controversie are culled out from pag. 259. 260. to be made the matter of farther contest Thus they lie in