AN INQVIRIE AND ANSVVER Of Thomas VVhite his Discoverie of Brovvnisme By Francis Iohnson Pastor of the exiled English Church at Amsterdam in Holland Psal. 55.12.13.14 Suerly myne enemy did not defame me for I could haue 〈◊〉 it neither did mine adversarie exalt himself against me for I would have hid me frō him But it was thou O man even my companiō my guide my 〈…〉 Which delighted in consulting together and went into the house 〈…〉 companions 1606. TO THE CHRISTIAN READER grace and peace from Christ our Lord Saviour TWo sorts of adversaries the Church still hath among men The one of such as be without the other of such as arise from within the Church it self Both heavie enemies but the latter far the more grievous many wayes By both of them haue we as others before vs ben exercised a long time and in straunge maner Yet in and against them all hath the Lord by his power and of his mercy hitherto preserved vs and I trust will so do vnto the end Of late hath risen vp one Thomas White despitefully reviling vs and wickedly blaspheming the Name and tabernacle of the Lord. A man that was himself heretofore separated from the Church of England holding the Prelacy Ministery worship and confusion thereof to be antichristian VVho also was a joyned member of a Church in the VVest parts of England professing the same faith with vs And afterward coming over to Amsterdam and desiring to be partaker of the Lords supper with vs did in our publick meeting before vs all with his owne mouth testify his consent with vs in the same faith we professe From which he is now revolted and of which he is become a notable adversarie setting himself tooth and nayle what he can against vs and our cause and that both privately publickly as now himself hath manifested to the world So as in himself though it may seem straunge are found both the extremities whereof he speaketh in his Preface which bring no small annoyance to the Church of God hypocrisie and prophanenes His hypocrisie now layd open in the particulars aforesaid and many other knowen vnto vs concerning him His prophanenes plainly appearing both in forsaking the truth of Christ as Esau sold his birthright for a messe of pottage and in oppugning it in this maner which sheweth in him a despising if not a despiting also of the trueth as Esau contemned the birthright when he had sold it And thus the instance which he would falsely give in others may fitly be observed in himself for both the extremities aforesaid As also that howsoever they seem to differ the one from the other yet indeed they strengthen harden each other with a mutuall reciprocation and proceed also the one from the other howsoever for a while envy do cloak it self vnder the name of zeale c. VVhich that it may yet the better appeare both in and from himself I will here set down a letter of his written while he held our cause to a Minister of the Church of England And to vse his owne wordes as Christ alleadged against the Pharisees the example of their owne children that they might be their iudges so will I against himself his own writing dealing that they as his children may be his judges The letter is this which followeth taken from his own originall copie A letter written by Thomas VVhite to Mr I. A. Minister at M. in VViltshire Ps. 7.9.59.2.140.5 Oh let the malice of the wicked come to an end but guide thou the just Deliver me from the wicked doers and save me from the bloudy men The proud have laid a snare for me and spred a net with cords in my pathway and set grennes for me Selah Sir the pillars of the kingdome of darknes haue ben especially three ignorance falsehood and violence How far your self have waded with others in these in your late dealing against vs by sermons conference letters let the sequele shew 1. For the first you in conference at W.VV. would vndertake to prove the reading Ministery to be a true Ministery though you refused to iustify your owne and that by this argument Whosoever preaches the Gospell is a true Minister but the reading Minister preach the Gospell Therefore a true Minister For answer to your argumēt I denyed the first propositiō especially in that sence as you took preaching for any publishing of the Gospel which you presently left without defence But if the reading Ministery be a true Ministery then is it the ordinance of God and if it be the ordinance of God then may not the Magistrate remove such a Ministery vnder any pretence without sinne An ignorant Proctor for an ignorant Ministery an vnfit tyme for such a doctrine of desolation to keep darknes still in the Land when the Lord hath shaken his sword against it 2. Your ignorance further appeares in the expounding of the parable you entreated on Math. 13.24.1 In expounding field for the Church whē as though there by kingdome of heaven be meant the Church yet by field must be meant the world for the kingdome of heavē is in the field except the Church should be in the Church or our Saviours exposition were vntrue verse 38. where field is expounded to be the world 2. In that you would vndertake to expoūd a dark parable not by playne places of Scripture but contrary to the tenour of the Scriptures and ordinance of God both in Church common wealth for if by tares be meant open offenders which may not be plucked vp then may not open offenders be cast out in the Church nor put to death by the Magistrate 3. You said in conference that all that preached the Gospel Act. 8.4 had extraordinary gifts which you went about thus to prove Philip. Act. 8.5 had extraordinary gifts therefore all the rest had Which argument you could not then nor ever will be able to prove the very recitall of it is sufficient answer vnto it 4. And your insufficiency was even confessed by one of your owne fellowes as I heard who when he heard that you were to preach on that parable said that he marvelled that you would vndertake it being so vnfit he would some more sufficient man would vndertake it with many such words tending to the like effect Thus have you shewed your self not alone ignorāt so acknowledged after a sort by some of your selves but also are become an vpholder and pleader for darknes in others But if your dealing had ben alone of ignorance your fault had not ben so great but you have added falsehood deceit therevnto as may appeare 1. In that you were not ashamed openly in the pulpit which you made the chaire of falsehood to teach that excōmunicatiō had no ground from the 18. of Math. contrary to the coherence drift circumstances consequence of that scripture by cōference also with other Scriptures as shal be shewed if you
of his own lippes Of the second head of Thâ— White his Treatise HItherto of the first â—ead of his 〈…〉 â—hat he saith we cut of from being true Curches in our account all the Churches of Christ that ever have ben since the Apostles dayes or now are yâ—â— and our selueâ— also His proof of all this he would fetch partly from the description aforesaid partly from a 〈◊〉 Treatise entituled A true description out of the word of God of the visible Church His instances are three 1. of the Chruches that haue ben since the Apostles dayes 2. of the Churches that now are 3. of our selues Touching which omitting that I haue answered before to his former exception which may here agayn be remembred though I repeat it not let the Reader now first obserue and marke it well how he saith the Churches that haue ben since the Apostles dayes and not the Churches that were in their dayes Beliâ—◠〈…〉 that th◠〈…〉 said cutteth not them of And if not them then not any other at all For that which made them to be true visible Churches doth and must make all other so to be to the end of the world namely the calling of Christ and their mutuall covenant and communion in his Gospell as we haue shewed before out of the Scriptures Wherevpon I reason thus If the description aforesaid cut not of the Primitive Churches planted by the Apostles from being true visible Churches of Christ then doth it not cut of any other which since that tyme haue bene are or shal be to the end of the world But the former is true Therefore the latter The Proposition is vndenyable from the Scriptures and demonstration aforesaid It is one and the same thing that giveth being to all true visible Churches of Chrâ—â—t That which gave being to the Churches of Ierusalem Antioch Rome c. gaue also being to the Churches of Galatia Corinth Ephesus c. notwithstanding the corruptions they fell into And that which then gave being to them giveth being to all that haue ben since or ever shal be The Church is the body of Christ and every one members for their part He is th◠〈◊〉 â—f the body from him doth all the life power thereof pâ—oceed He is not devided The Assumption is as certaâ—ne 〈◊〉 will appearâ— in that the Primitive Churches planted by the Apostles were companies of faithfull people by the word of God called out and separated from the world and the false vvayes thereof gathered and ioyned together in fellovvship of the Gospell by a voluntary profession of the faith and obedience of Christ. This is proved by the Acts of the Apostles and their Epistles throughout And if this man or his Maisters of whome he learned to object against this description do deny it as by their exceptions reasons is implyed may not we justly returne vnto them that which vnjustly they would impute vnto vs and say Are not they then the blasphemers of the Christians and their Churches Or is not this to robbe Christ of his honour Or may not that saying be verifyed of themselues He that despiseth his neighbour is a foole Pro. 11.12 But let vs come to his proof concerning the Churches spoken of by himself Thus he concludeth it If no Church that hath bene since the Apostles dayes or novv is that we read of be separate from all false vvayes in their account then by this description and in tho◠〈…〉 Churches But the former is true Therefore the latter Answ. The whole Sillogisme fayleth as he hath propounded it In the Proposition or first 〈…〉 thaâ— which in the description is particularly specified and needfull alway to be observed namely to be companies by the word of God called out from the world and false wayes thereof gathered and ioyned together in fellowship of the Gospell c. Wherfore his Proposition is not so vndenyable as hâ— supposâ—th from thaâ— description And when these particulars which now he hath omittâ—d be 〈…〉 to be implyed yet then also by further following of â—he AssumptioÌ„ may there be occasion to obserue more concerning it And for the Assuption it self or second part of the Reason it must needs fayle in like maner because of that omitted in the Proposition aforesaid His reason therefore if he would haue reasoned soundly and to the purpose should haue bene framed thus If no Church that hath bene since the Apostles dayes or now is that we read of be in their account by the word of God called out and separated from the world and the false wayes thereof gathered and ioyned together in fellowship of the Gospell by voluntarie profession of the faith and obedience of Christ then by his description and in their account must they be no true Churches But the former is true Therefore the latter Answ. 1. The very propounding of the Reason thus sheweth the weaknes of it 2. And what if we would not be drawen to speak of the Churches since but onely of them that were in the Apostles dayes keeping onely to the word of God and that which is recorded therein If they cannot by it or the example of those Churches disproue our testimony what would it help them or hurt vs if we answered them no further 3. Yet to answer this Reason notwithstanding and to omit the Proposition as is aforesaid I requier proof of the Assumption because all that he hath brought for confirmation of it doth not yet proue it as will appeare by discussing his allegations concerning the Churches he speaketh of 1. that were then 2. that now are 3. and our selues For the first viz the Churches heretofore since the Apostles dayes all that he saith is that we account the very saying of the Lords Prayer as a prayer to be a false way which was vsed from the Apostles age c. Ans. 1. Is this all he can alledge against vs concerning those Churches tymes Others 〈…〉 would perswade they have it by 〈◊〉 also of those wâ—iteâ—s that Archbishops Primates Metropolitans Archdeacons stinted formes of prayer the vse of the signe of the crosse and a number of such like things haue ben from the Apostles age Should we therefore believe them herein And how cometh it that this Antiquarie hath never a word of all these for those tymes Is it that he thinketh we hold them not now for false wayes of governing the Church and worshipping the Lord Or is it not in deed because the Hypocrite would not yet be seen to speak for these and would notwithstanding so dissâ—mble the matter as yet may please all sorts that are against vs 2. To speake of that he alledgeth admitting all he saith here to be true yet is not the Assumption thereby proued For in all true Churches the calling of Christ and the Churches covenant to obey the Gospell bindes them from all errour and false wayes notwithstanding that both the members and the whole body be subject to fall into them from
will vndertake the defence of your own doctrine In that scripture is shewed a power which Christ hath given to his Church ver 17.20 for the removing out of their communion ver 17. such as remayne vnrepentant and obstinate in their sinnes ver 16.17 and therefore excommunication To what end should this doctrine tend if not to bereave the Church of that power which Christ hath left for the sweeping of vncleannes out of the house of God But this shall be further shewed from whose breasts you suckt this poisoned milk which now you give others to drinck if you will not leave the doctrine to the wide world without defence 2. In that you trussed vp another false doctrine on the same Scripture that the party offēder Mat. 18.17 should be an heathē publican only to the party first offēded not to the whole Church Whē as the whol Church hath as much cause to be offended as the party that was first offended yea more cause thē that party had at first to be offended by reason of the continuance in his sinne which the offender hath added to his former sinne If you had vnderstood what had bene meant by trespasse verse 15 you would not haue thus abused this Scripture as may also be further shewed In this point one of your Ministers but of greater wisdome discretion then your self hath signifyed his contrary iudgment to you thereon as I have heard as knowing I doubt not the falsehood and vanity of your assertion thereon Yea I dare vndertake that many of your our owne Ministers of best reformed iudgments will be ashamed of these black drops which falls from your lipps 3. In that you published in like sort that though open offenders did communicate with true Christians yet were they not defiled thereby traducing Mr Iohns 〈◊〉 affirming the contrary And yet when you came to the triall of it in conference between you and my self you said your meaning was of a true Christian in the sight of God not of a true Christian in the sight of men as he is a member of the visible Church and that such a Christian could not sinne or be defiled with sinne in that he was regenerate or borne of God which was never the question betweene vs and so a true Christian did not sinn though he should commit Idolatry Adultery or the like in that sence that you tooke sinning Yea a true Christian might as much be defiled with sinne in communicating with open offenders as by committing adultery for any thing you have said in that conference which is vnder your hand This was your miserable shifting I feare against the light of your conscience Yet Mr Ies. a few dayes after in a conference betweene Mr Pow. and himself at Mr Bayl. on the same question took it in an other sense yea in that sence as which you said you meant not neither could I bring you vnto it as may appeare in that conference Such confusion of languages doth well become the builders of Babell 4. For that in your letter to Mr St. S.W.W.N. dated the 20. of Ian 1603. you would vndertake though no other would assist you yet your self by word or writing or howsoever against whomsoever to iustify your Ministerie doctrine c. and yet by word in conferring you refused to iustify your Ministery whē you were provoked therevnto yea when I offred to prove it false in those particulars you mentioned and to be separated from I offred also to prove your doctrine false on the 18. of Mat. and 13. of Mat. but you refused I desired that I might propose one argument concerning the question between vs but you would deale no further except you might put downe some proof further of that which we never doubted of viz that a true Christian in the sight of God did not sinne in the regenerate part as he was borne of God Was this timorous fearefull dealing answerable to your bombasted boastings let others iudge These be the doctrines of desolation which you do scatter Let others now iudge what cause we haue to account you a false prophet and they in miserable case that are led by such blind guides Did you not tremble to wish in the pulpit that the Lord would stop your mouth if you spake not the truth Your dealing hath confirmed vs and bene a meanes through Gods goodnes to gaine others to the trueth we professe and for your self remember seing you care not what you teach nor how you take the name of God in vaine that which is written Ion. 2.8 that they that wayt vpon lying vanities forsake their owne mercy 3. And yet least the measure of your iniquity were not full already you add violence persecution to your former evill dealing When you are not able to stand by the word you try whether you can suppresse vs by the sword 1 Your self would not suffer Mr Pow. to make answer to you at Slaughtens fearing least your falsehood should be discovered thereby 2 Afterward Mr Ies. by letters intreated him not to make you answer publikly that you might speak what you would without controlement 3 And seing these meanes would not prevayle your self to shew whose servant you are with others went vp againe againe as if much paynes had bene too little to procure a warrant to attach him Will We. told Mr Pow. that Mr Aw was the procurer of the warrant Thus do you by falsehood violence seek to vphold your ruinated kingdome when truth verity hath forsaken her And you shew yourself in deed to be an Edomite red with bloud Ob. 1.10 like the scarlet coloured beast who hath a mouth like a Dragon 4 Your associate Mr At. could tell me that an other place was fitter for me meaning the prison To whō I answered that if I had the gift of dissembling which he had to subscribe against my conscience as he did I told him then whē wher I might live longe enough inioy Achans wedge as himself doth without abridgement of liberty You of all others may be ashamed to dissemble thus with the Prelates knowing how basely you have thought spoke of them 5 You Mr Aw could call vs brethren afterward being vrged for your dissembling you could expound your meaning that it was in respect of creation and so Cayn Ismaell Antichrist be your brethren too yea nearer of kin then so by persecution too 6 Your self could say not long since that of all sects on some conditions you could soonest joyne to vs as being nearest the truth yet a little after call vs rebells but rebellion being a high degree of treason your self if you conceale it 24. houres will incurr the danger thereof looke you to it 7 You promised by writing to put downe reasons to iustify your Ministerie and doctrine betweene vs conferred of but we thought before how slack we should find you in performance At your next comming to Slaughtens
other of our enemies think their case the better because of our sinnes or troubles or weak walking in the faith whereoÌ„ they do so much insist Concerning which my answer shall be with the words of the Prophet Reioyce not against me ô myne enemie though I fall I shall arise wheÌ„ I sit in darknes the Lord shall be a light vnto me I will beare the wrath of the Lord because I have sinned against him vntill he plead my plea execute iudgement for me he will bring me forth to the light I shall see his righteousnes And he will look vpon myne enemie and cover her with shame which said vnto me Where is the Lord thy God Myne eyes shall looke vpon her now shall she be troden downe as the myre in the streetes And in this will we rest and wayt vpon the Lord the God of our salvation trusting in him that notwithstanding our vnworthines and his chastising which we have deserved yet he will look vpon vs in mercy and make all things worke for good vnto vs in Christ And that thus the vttermost opposition of all our enemies howsoever they set them selves against vs whether against our cause or against our persons against our faith or our walking in it shall turne to our good to the furtherance of the truth witnessed by vs which we have much found that adversaries of all sorts have a long time and many wayes oppugned as they yet daily do and cease not though all in vaine For great is the truth and will prevaile and greater is he that is with vs then they all that are against vs. To him be praise and glorie for ever and ever Amen Esay 54 15.16.17 Behold he shall gather together but without me whosoever shall gather himself in thee against thee shall fall Behold I have created the smith that bloweth the coales in the fire and him that bringeth forth an instrument for his work and I haue created the stroyer to destroy But all the weapons that are made against thee shall not prosper and every tongue that shall rise against thee in iudgement thou shalt condemne This is the heritage of the Lords sâ—rvants and their righteousnes is of mâ— saith the Lord. AN INQVIRIE AND ANSVVER Of Thomas VVhite his Discovery of Brownisme or as he calleth it also his declaration of some of the errors and abhominations daily practised encreased among the English company of the separation remayning for the present at Amsterdam in Holland TO any that are exercised in the word of God or know the nature and power of sinne in themselues or the doctrine pledges of remissioÌ„ of sinnes by Châ—ist in his Church or the power vse of excoÌ„munication for impenitent sinners or the Churches duty vpon their repentance to receive them againe etc. To any such I say it cannot seem strange that in true Churches and Christians sinnes enormities sundry and great should fall out be found The condition of the Church of the Iewes before Christ of the Primitive Churches after Christ yea of the whole Church and people of God from the beginning of the world to this day shew it plainly and certainly so to haue ben Which work of God so disposing and case of his Churches and the members therof so being howsoever many haue stumbled thereat abused it to their own destruction deceiving of others yet thus would God preach vnto the world and have his own people learne and lay to hart other better things thereby As namely how sinfull miserable we are in our selves how subtilly and continually Sathan seeketh to devoure vs how fast we had need alway to hold faith in Christ and to fight the good fight thereof against all enemies of our salvation and obedience how needfull it is to live in the Church of Christ vnder his conduct and governmeÌ„t how carefull we had need be to make an end of our owne salvation with feare trembling also how exceeding great the mercy of God is vnto vs in Christ his SoÌ„ne by whom not only when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by his death but being also reconciled are saved by his life and finally how infinite his power wisedome is both in preserving his elect to salvation through the middest of so great corruption and in bringing the wayes of the wicked vpon their own heads to their iust destruction and all to the praise glory of his Name These and the like good vses may should we make of the foresaid condition of the Church here on earth Neyther did we ever think or professe otherwise of our selves but that we are sinfull prone to evill in our selues aswell as others obteyning salvation onely by Iesus Christ. Yet may not our or any weaknes of man praejudice the truth of God So that admitting it were with vs as this Adversarie Thomas White hath written against vs yet ought none therefore to be turned away from the truth professed by vs but to make other vse thereof for their own good as we our selues also ought But now if the things he obiecteth be many of them notorious lyes divers of them purposely perverted few of them truely related and all of them as all may see maliciously abused against vs how iustly shall that returne vpon his own head which he would in â—his manner bring vpon vs according as it is said He that diggeth a pit shall fall therein and he that roleth a stone it shall return vpon him His mischief shall returne vpon his owne head and his iniury shall descend vpon his owne pate Prov. 26.27 Psal. 7.15.16 TO come to the Libell it self he beginneth it with blasphemy in the very title thereof calling it A discovery of Brownisme What our cause and testimony is we haue long since published in the Confession of our faith which this man knoweth well hath in his book alledged the 17. Article thereof If then he take our cause for which we are reviled vnder the name of Brownists to be errour why did he not confute it If it be the truth why doth he thus blaspheme it But so to be reproached hath ben the case of the Apostles and Christians of old And at this day are the Protestants thus dealt with by the Papists who blaspheme the truth vnder the name of Zuinglianisme Lutheranisme Calvinisme c. And well it fitteth the Priests of England that as they partake with the Papists in so many other things they should also follow their steps in blaspheming the truth and witnesses thereof That which he annexeth calling his book also A declaration of some of the erros and abhominations among vs as it enlargeth the title of his Book so it increaseth the wickeâ—nes of his sinne For may not the Reader hereby gather that he would perswade eyther that we hold and haue many other errours abhominations besides them that here he imputeth vnto vs or that all our cause and
testimony is nothing els but error and abhomination As also when he saith the errors and abhominations be dayly practised encreased And that not onely in some particular persons but even among the company of the separation and as he speaketh in his Preface in that congregation wherein he would give his instance of prophanenes and hypocrisie This congregation he nameth to be the English company of the separation remayning for the present at Amsterdam Where the Reader is to know that we who by some are termed Brownists of a mans name who heretofore witnessed this cause are by others called the company of the separatioÌ„ because we do separate froÌ„ the Prelacy Priâ—sthood worship Confusion of the Church of England as being Antichristian do also practise the ordinance of Christ which he hath given for the government ministery worship and order of his Church THis for the Title Like therevnto is his Treatise also Where for his generall accusations of debate malice adulteryes cousonages and other enormities c. this may serue in generall to be answered 1. If he meane of some particular persons among vs falling into such sinnes it hath ben and is the case of all the Churches of Christ vpon earth as may be seen in those of Corinth Galatia Ephesus c. And what need or vse els should there be of the rules power given by Christ to his Church for casting out obstinate sinners and receiving the repâ—ntant in againe But if he meane of the body of the Church as if we approved or reteyned such being coÌ„vinced vnrepentant himself knoweth it is a malicious sclander and his own objections afterward in his book of sundry persons whom for their sinnes and obstinacy therein we have cast out from among vs may shew it also to others so to be We are carefull he hath seen it himself that such be not reteyned or allowed among vs. And we find that even our carefulnes herein is abused against vs because when any of vs are knowen to haue fallen into sinne and are dealt with according as the case requireth whether they repent so remayne in the Church or whether they persist in their evill and so are cut of it is still objected against vs and we are published to abound with such sinnes enâ—rmities Thus might the best Churches that ever wâ—re in the world be traduced as hereafter there is further occasion to shew in some particulars 2. For our selues as I said before we confesse and professe it also that we are subiect to sinne and infirmity as other men looking for salvation not by our own righteousnes which is of the Law but onely by the righteousnes which is of God through the faith of Christ. Yet notwithstanding all the sinnes and vnworthynes of vs let this still be held firme at least till vve be soundly confuted that our cause is the truth of the Gospell of Christ witnessed against the errors of the defection of Antichrist 3. The accusations made against vs are to be considered with their proofs which will afterward come to be seen In the meane time let it be observed whether if some would set themselues to collect particular instaÌ„ces of debate malice adulteries cousonages such other like enormities daily coÌ„mitted by many in the Church wherevnto this man is now revolted though they wrote no vntrueths as he doth many but noted onely the truth of things as they are indeed neyther took the space of thirteen or fourteen yeares as he hath done but of any one yeare among them how might they fill I will not say a few sheeds of paper but even many volumes of books therewith And if T. White were asked according to his own words here whether he had not himself partaken with their abominatioÌ„s vnfruitfull works of darknes and whether he would give warning to others of their leaders evill dealing whereby their people are devoured would he not think you verify his own other sayings here shewing himself to be far from repentance seeking to cover hide cloake reproach and revile vsing falsehood shiftings contrarieties etc. All which are knowen to be so true and comon both in himself and the Church whereto he is returned as I need not write thereof at all their estate dealing proclayme it to all that hâ—ue eares to heare and hearts to regard it Our banishment poverty whereof he speaketh encreaseth his their sinne against vs yet much the more For are not they the persons that bring these afflictions vpon vs and is it not onely because we witnesse the truth of our Lord Iesus Christ against the falsehood of Antichrist yet remayning among them in the ministery worship order government of their Church But let them know that he which judgeth iustly the sonnes of men will remember his banished and execute justice and judgment to all that are oppressed For the poore shall not alway be forgotten nor the hope of the afflicted perish for ever And in the meane tyme even in the middest of all our afflictions are we comforted in the Lord for whose sake we endure them great benefit do we further reap by them not only for our own good many other wayes but in this in particular that these our troubles are a speciall meanes to keep discover and remove from among vs a number of hypocrites such as this T. White who if it were not for our poverty and banishment would flock faster vnto vs and lurk longer among vs vnder a painted colour of holynes making show as if they would depart from iniquity call vpon the Name of the Lord and who more then they when in deed their harts be fraight full of the leaven of hypocrisy contention maliciousnes and all maner of iniquity which in such case and estate of things doth oftentimes both sooner and more appeare then otherwise it may be ever would The calumniation of condemning all other Churches and men we haue often answered and cleared heretofore this also knowen to himself Yet thus he writeth that in this as in the rest of his dealing all might see how it is himself that runneth into fearfull extremities and reproacheth with a virulâ—nt and venemous tounge For our selves besides our reverend estimation of other Churches and good perswasion of other men so often published to the world we haue also shewed it in our walking towards them and namely in our dealing with the Dutch â—nd French Churches of this citie as with true Churches Which had we not so esteemed of them we neither could nor would so haue done and dealt with them as we haue THe letter he speaketh of I haue still with me His falsehood and other bad dealing therein I will here omit save onely about the doctrines by him layd vpon vs. 1. The first is that we held it lawfull for a man to live with her that is not his wife rather then to reveale himself This he saith but how
accounted true visible Churches of Christ. And hitherto of his false blasphâ—mous doctrines objected against vs in his letter Which in his Libell he saith I promised to ansvver performed it not Yet in the letter it self he writeth that I said I had spoken vnto him both privately publickly now would not further haue to do vvith him And concerning his letter my answer was to this effect as I remember sent him by I.L. one of his own company besides my speach vnto himself That the contents of his letter vvere partly private partly publick that for the private I required proof and for the publick I vvould not deale privaely Wishing also the said I.L. to deale with him for some reports ascribed to him in the letter concerning me which he denyed and to end it between themselves who were of one company together And as I should heare thereof so I should consider what to do for the rest This let him aske of I.L. his own companion and let himself now look vnto it who it is that falsifyeth For not ansvvering his letter by vvriting I had good reason as may appeare by that which before is alledged And Wisdome teacheth there be persons who are not to be answered according to their foolishnes and times also when to speak and when to be silent Pro. 26.4 Eccles. 3.7 vvith 2 King 18.36 The dumbe Ministers spoken of in the place here cited by him he hath now consorted himself withall being returned to his old vomit and become as dumbe as any of them for defending the truth against the aduersaries thereof yet opening his mouth above all his fellowes in blaspheming the truth and witnesses of it Wherein the case of the worst dumbe dog in England is ten thousand fold better then his And happy it had ben for him if his toung had cleaved to the roof of his mouth and his hand never vsed pen more then theirs whereas now his sin is vnspeakably greater his estate infinitely more miserable But leaving him to the iudgmeÌ„t of God I will proceed to the other particulars of his book desiring the Reader for all his pretence of due proof of his charges to remember that saying of Salomon He that is first in his ovvn cause is iust then cometh his neighbour and maketh inquirâ— of him Prov. 18.17 Of the first head of Th White his Treatise THat which followeth in his Treatise himself reduceth to fower heads In which order I will also handle them The first is that he saith vve haue betrayed our ovvn cause in vvriting And to prove it he alledgeth that I erre in the description of a true visible Church and thereby overthrovv the mayn drift of my vvritings I answer 1. His reason followes not For may not I or any other of vs erre in some thing yet our generall cause not be betrayed Agayne did not Nathan the Prophet erre about the building of the Temple and Peter the Apostle about the Gentiles calling and comunion Could now an Edomite or Pharisee have iustly gathered that they had therefore betrayed the cause of Israel or of the Christians witnessed by them against the adversaries To come nearer to our owne times it is well knowen that Mr. Calvine Luther Beza Fulk Powell Sutcliff c. writing against the Papists Anabaptists and the like haue in sundrie things erred even concerning the very pointes of the difference between them Shall vve say therefore that they have betrayed the cause handled betvveen them and their aduersaries and overthrovven the mayne drift of their ovvn vvritings Not to speak of the Martyrs put to death by the Papists how both many of them and in many things have erred even concerning the causes controverted in their tymes Should we therefore conclude that they betrayed their own cause Or that they did not witnesse the truth notwithstanding faithfully even vnto death 2. Our cause towching the Church of England is that the estate thereof is such in their Prelacy Priesthood worship confusion c. as it is not lawfull by the word of God for any to ioyne or continue with them in such estate And moreover that it is the duty of all Christians to receive and keep the faith and ordinances of Christ vvherein the Primitive Churches vvere planted by the Apostles To discusse and make these things more playne I reduced our whole cause to seaven questions and so propounded them viz 1. Whether the Lord Iesus Christ have by his last testament given vnto and set in his Church sufficient ordinary Offices with their Callings Workes Maintenance for the administration of his holy things and for the sufficient ordinary instruction guidance and service of his Church to the end of the world or no 2. Whether the Offices of Pastors Teachers Elders Deacons and Helpers be those Offices appointed by Christ in his Testament as aforesaid Or whether the present ecclesiasticall Offices of Archbishops Lordbishops Suffragans Deanes Prebendaries Canons Petticanons Priests Deacons Archdeacons Doctors of divinitie Bachelers of divinity Chapleins or housepriests Commissaries Officialls Proctors Apparitors Parsons Vicars Curates Vagrant or Mercenary preachers Church-wardens Sidemen Clerkes Sextins and the rest now had in the Cathedrall and Parishionall assemblies be those Offices appointed by Christ in his Testament as is aforesaid or no 3. Whether the Calling and entrance into these Ecclesiasticall offices aforesaid their Administration and MaintenaÌ„ce now had and reteyned in England be the manner of calling administration maintenance which Christ hath appointed for the offices of his Church above named or no 4. Whether every true visible Church of Christ be not a company of people called and separated out from the world the false worship and wayes thereof by the word of God ioyned togeather in fellowship of the Gospell by voluntary professioÌ„ of the faith and obedience of Christ And whether the Ecclesiasticall Assemblies of the Land be such or no 5 Whether the Sacraments being seales of righteousnes which is by faith may be administred to any other but to the faithfull and their seed or in any other ministery manner then is appointed by Iesus Christ the Apostle and high Priest of our profession And whether they be not otherwise administred in the Cathedrall parishionall Assemblies of England at this day 6. Whether the Book of Common prayer with the Feasts Fasts Holy dayes stinted prayers and Leiturgy prescribed therein and vsed in these Assemblies be the true worship of God commaunded in his word or the devise and invention of man for Gods worship and service 7. Whether all people and Churches without exceptioÌ„ be not bound in Religion only to receive submit vnto that Ministery worship and order which Christ as Lord and King hath given and appointed to his Church Or whether any may receive or ioyne vnto another devised by man for the service of God And consequently whether they which ioine to the present ecclesiasticall Ministery worship and order of
the Cathedrall and parishionall Assemblies can be assured by the word of God that they ioyne to the former ordeined by Christ and not to the latter devised by man even the man of sinne for the worship and service of God Now reducing our cause to these heads if it were so that I erred in one of them is therefore our cause betrayed Or should my particular error be imputed to the whole Church or reputed the betraying of our generall cause Is there not difference to be put between erring through ignorance if this were an errour and betraying with knowledge Or if this maner of reasoning which he vseth might be admitted who can deny but the Protestants of England and of all sorts have an hundred and an hundred tymes betrayed their own cause and overthrovven the very drift of their owne writings And if they think it not of weight against them for their multitude of knowen errours with what face can it be vrged against vs for one supposed errour 3. For the description it self which was given of a visible Church I still hold it to be good It was thus A true visible Church of Christ is a company of faithfull people by the word of God called out from the vvorld and the false vvayes thereof gathered together in fellovvship of the Gospell by a voluntary profession of the faith and obedience of Christ. This is the description which he would proue to be false partly by gathering my meaning thereof in other places of that other books partly and particularly by my judgment concerning the Israelites in Egypt spoken of in the Ans. to Mâ— Ia. pag. 47. Where before I answer him let me advertise the Reader that if there be any weight in this exception it was found out not by Th. White as by his book might be supposed but by some of the Ministers in VViltshire specially by one Mr Io. Ie. and other his fellowes there who have bestowed much labour in reading our writings vvhether for love to the truth or that they might finde somewhat thereby the more to cavill against it let their walking and dealing shew VVhose disciple novv this White is become having heretofore stood as opposite against them as white is to black Now therfore to answer them all vnder one I will write somewhat touching this matter referring the further handling of it if there be need till some other adversaries with whom we haâ—â— to deale concerning it and the other heads of our cause give further occasion Two things as I said about this description are specially noted and vrged the first about the meaning the other about my vvriting of the Israelites in Egypt For the first the meaning is plaine by the words themselues and by the drift of that and all other of our booâ—s as may appeare not onely by the places here cited by him but by many other compared together and particularly by an expresse declaration annexed vnto it in our Apologie against the Oxf Doct. pag. 36.44.45 Yet now againe to explane and proue the truth of that description I will here treat a litle more thereof To esteem and describe aright a true visible Church we must look especially to two things 1. the calling of Christ 2. the covenant and coÌ„munion of the Church To Christ his calling like as the Apostles every where describe the Churches according to it As namely the Churches of Ephesus Corinth Rome c. For which see these Scriptures Rom. 1.5.6.7 1 Cor. 1.2.9.24 Gal. 1.6 5.8.13 Ephe. 1.1 with 4.1.4 Col. 3.15 1 Thes. 2.12 5.24 2 Thes. 1.11 2.14 Heb. 3.1 1 Pet. 1.15 2.9.21 2 Pet. 1.1.3 Iude ver 1. Now it caÌ„not be denyed but Christs calling of his Churches people is vnto the whole faith of the Gospell willing obedience thereof fâ—oÌ„ all evill iniquity that is any way repugnant therevnto therefore froÌ„ the false worship wayes of the vvorld whatsoever they be or wheresoever And herevpon did the Apostles reproue the Churches still when they fell into any sinne eyther against the first or second Table as not walking worthy the holy calling whervnto they were called in Christ and required of them also obedience to all the coÌ„maundements ordinances of Christ fâ—oÌ„ tyme to tyme. Therefore should White and his teachers have better observed that clause of the description aforesaid by the vvord of God called out etc. So might they have perceived if they had love to the truth both that the description is good and that the abberrations of true Chuâ—ches are so far from proving it any way false as they do in deed approue the truth of it in asmuch as the verie being of a Church by the calling of Christ requireth of them to walk otherwise Another thing that we are to look vnto yet also depending vpon the former is the Churches covenant and coÌ„munion This covenant is to be considered as made by them vnto the Lord and one with another to walk together in the truth of the Gospell in all the coÌ„maundements and ordinances of the Lord And therefore to forsake and avoid whatsoever is there against As may appeare by these Scriptures Exod. 19.3 8. 2 King 23.2.3 Esa. 2.2.3 14.1 and 44.5 Ier. 50.4.5 Act. 2.41.42.47 and 11.21.24 Rom. 12.5 2 Cor. 9.13 Ephes. 4.4.5.6 Phil. 1.1.5 Therefore also the description aforesaid is good And so might the adversaries haue perceived if they had well observed that other clause therein of being gathered and ioyned together in fellowship of the Gospell c. And what els is it that giveth the being to a true visible Church but the calling of Christ the Churches covenant according thervnto Wherevpon in a true Church may and ought these things following alway to be observed 1. That it hath Christ alone for the Mediatour that is for the Prophet Priest and King thereof 2. That it is to be accounted the spouse and body of Christ the househould citie and kingdome of God the ground and pillar o truth a Church of Saints c. 3. That the promises and pledges of Gods covenant presence blessing do appertayne vnto them in that estate 4. That it apperteyneth to Christ to remove his Candlestick take away his kingdome from a Church when and as he pleaseth 5. That every true visible Church hath authority and power froÌ„ Christ to receive in members willingly professing the same faith with them to cast out obstinate offenders from among them 6. That the want or transgression of Christs ordinances doth not simply or presently disanull them from being a true Church For example When a people are so called and covenanted as aforesaid though yet they have none in office amoÌ„g theÌ„ eyther Pastors Teachers Elders etc. they are notwithstanding a true visible Church And by their calling and covenant they have power in Christ as he giveth them fit men and meanes to chuse and enjoy these as any other of his ordinances Likewise
out of his place and to take his kingdome froÌ„ amoÌ„g the requiring also of such as are willing to obey the truth voice of Christ now to save themselves from such a froward generation to walk in obedience of his faith commaundements Rev. 2.5 Mat. 21.42.43 Esa. 8.12 16. Act. 2.40.41.42 13.46.51 18.5.6 19.8.9 And according to this would I be vnderstood wheresoever I speak concerning this argument For the Iewes in Egypt rebelling after admonition besides the difference to be put between obstinacy persisted in and that which is repented of which is thought to haue bene their estate I have here before shewed how we are to discerne between their estate in respect of their owne desert and the Lords mercy vnto them for his Nameâ— sake notwithstanding Which diversity of respect being now revealed vnto vs in the word of God concerning them we are therin to rest and so to speak and esteem of their estate as the Scriptures teach vs. Ezech. 20.7.8.9 with Exod. 4.22 and 3.10.18 8 22. and 12. chap and 15.16 Hos. 11.1 For the Iewes in Christs time and after his death what I think and my reasons thereof the Reader may find also in the Treatise aforesaid both in the Preface sect 4. 5. and in the book it self pag. 161.195 For that he objecteth here about their estate after admonition two things are to be obserued the one concerning that people the other concerning their admonition For the first touching the people God had chosen that nation out of all the nations of the earth to be his he had done great wonderous things for them he had given them his word and statutes he had promised that of them and to them he would send the Messiah him they expected for refusall of him they were to be cut of and the Gentiles to be graffed in many were the cities and Synagogues of them to to Ierusalem the males came but thrice a yeare c. And for the second towching admonition God would haue them fully taught admonished and convinced that the Messiah was now come that Iesus was he therefore was Iohn Baptist appointed to shew him vnto them and to baptise in his name therefore did Christ send his disciples into their cities to preach testifie it vnto them therfore also did Christ himself every where among them teach confirme it by his doctrine and miracles and being the true Passeover shadowed out by all their types was put to death at their feast of Passeover rose againe the third day accoâ—â—ing â—o the scâ—iptuâ—es to accomplish the promises made vnto the Fathers and to leave â—he Iewes without all colour o◠〈…〉 â—â—lief and obstinacy they should be cut off These things and the like noted of them in the Scripture are to be observed of vs that we may aright esteem of their estate and of the Lords account of them and dealing with them Yea the Scriptures here cited by himself shew this very thing how the Lord did not at first cut of that people but after he had vsed sundry meanes vnto them and that also many tymes Luk. 7.30.31 c. Mat. 23.37.38 And the same is playnely declared Mar. 21.33 43. and throughout the history of the Evangelists and Actes of the Apostles Besides for admonition also obserue how God requireth that a particular man for a private â—â—nne be admonished in the 〈◊〉 secoÌ„d and third place before he be cast out Mat. 18.15.16.17 And in rejecting an heretick that it be done after the first and second admonition Tit. 3.10 Also in the Lord his owne dealing with the particular Churches of the Gentiles that he gave them space to repeÌ„t after the admonitions given vnto them before he would remoue the candlestick out of his place Rev. 2.4.5.16.21 3.3.16.18.20.22 And what then should let that we should not likewise obeserve Gods dealing with the Iewes at that tyme and accordingly esteem of their estate Concerning whom note also when now they had despised all the former meanes and crucified Iesus then the Apostles testifying vnto them that he was the Christ did first at Ierusalem after wheresoever they came and found the disobedient teach all to separate and save themselves from such a froward generation Act. 2.14 40. 13.14 51. 18.5.6 19.8.9 28.25.26.27 Thus haue I touching this point shewed my mynd wherein if I erre let it be shewed by the word of God And though in some things I differ in judgment from Mr H Barrow that faithfull Martyr of Christ yet doth it not prejudice the truth testified by both of vs against the Antichristian estate of the Church of England This themselues may obâ—erue in theiâ— owne writers against the Papists in whom it were endles to recount the differences found amoÌ„g theÌ„ frivolous to pretend thereby approbatioÌ„ of the Romish Church in their estate We all here know but in part and who is he that erreth in nothing If then in this I were mistaken haue I therfore betrayed our cause or overthrowen the mayne drift of my writings Nay if this be all the errour in my writings that with all his searching he caÌ„ fynd I shall rather think our cause to be so approved and my drift atteyned therein for the truth of Christ against the present estate of their Church as they are not able eyther to defend themselues or convince vs by the word of God and therefore now set themselues to search snatch and cavill at something for objection against vs. Which also if they fynd and it be graunteâ— them albeit our defence therein were the weaker yet were theyr cause therefore never a whit the better To conclude this poynt besides personall abuse of divers of which 〈…〉 where he hath it agayne he objecteth against me that I condemne the Dutch and French Churches for despising our admonition c. But in what writing of â—â—nne hath he found this or in what words haue I spoken it to any or in what dealing towards them haue I shewed it Where is the due proof of his charges which ere while he told vs of How reverendly we think of these Churches we haue often shewed and published heretofore which I need not here repeat And what dealing hath passed between vs and the Elders of the Dutch and French Churches of this City I shall haue occasion hereafter to shew more particularly To which place I 〈◊〉 it Now onely let the Reader here consider how truely and fitly his shutting vp of this point may be applyed to himself who heretofore hath held and witnessed the same testimony with vs against the Church of England and corruptions of these Churches here but now wavereth or rather in deed is revolted in both as the world seeth and his walking sheweth He that wavereth in his owne testimony â—ow shall his witnes â—e received But thus is that verifyed in him which the wise man speaketh The â—vill man is snared by the wickednes
faith Howsoever therefore we haue erred or may erre in judgment or practise as we and all men in this life are alway subiect to do yet doth it not therefore follow eyther that the description aforesaid is not good or that we are not a true Church notwithstanding Further towching our selues we acknowledge professe before all men that divers things heretofore obserued amoÌ„g vs at the first we have since altered and do from tyme to time alter and amend as God giveth vs by his word to discerne better therein Yea and herevnto are we bound and haue power in Christ even by the constitution of our Church So free from all false wayes is the constitution it self and yet we that are in it subiect to erre notwithstanding many wayes So far are we also from the straunge opinion and impietie of them that having in this latter age of the world disclaymed the Popâ—s person and recâ—ivâ—d some truthes of the Gospell yet reteyning many abhominations of Antichrist withall would now stand still and admit of no further proceeding or alteration among them As if they had at first seen received the whole truth and all the ordinances of Christ. Or as if Antichrist should not now by degrees be discovered and consumed as heretofore he rose vp and was exalted 2 Thes. 2. Rev. 14. and 17. and 18. and 19. chap. with Ier. 51.25.26.45.46 And now by that which hath bene said let the Reader obserue whether this fellow haue not entrapped himself and his mother Church while he thought to haue ensnared vs. Neyther let any be so simple as to give credit in the cause of religion to any further or otherwise but as warrant and confirmation is brought out of the word of God which is the ground and rule of all trueth nor to refuse that which is approved by it for the aberration opposition or calumniation of any whosoever they be His abuse both here and other where in his book of that which we haue published in print I leave also to the Reader to observe and for himself to answer to him that knoweth his heart As for I. N. whom he nameth in particular more then others whom he would insinuate for borrowing and making no conscience to pay againe he hath called him before the Magistrates here as others before mentioned affirming offring to shew how in the very particular alledged by White when he was here demaunded his proof for thus divulging him he hath offred his creditour goods sufficient for his debt with overplus and having had to deale with him for much hath satisfyed all to a little yet remayning having also had hindrance by the sicknes and otherwise And for the generall we acknowledg that men ought to be carefull both how they borrow and how they pay againe and should measure these as all other affaires with judgment and conscience according to godlynes Psal. 37.21 and 112.5 Rom. 13.8 And we know also that yet notwithstanding it is the case sometime of men fearing God not onely to be but even to dy in debt As we read of one of the sonnes of the Prophets 2 King 4.1 But all this which hitherto he hath said being not ynough eyther for the vent of his owne rancour and malice against vs or to please our adversaries whose favour he would purchase by traducing of vs he now further pretendeth to frame an opposition between our practise the Treatise entituled A true description out of the vvord of God of the visible Church thus setting himself to seek and abuse against vs whatsoever he can out of any of our writings To shew his wicked dealing herein as it is would require to insist vpon the particulars of that description and to compare therewith the estate and walking of our Church that would aske a long treatise which here I purpose not It shall suffice that the Reader especially such as haue knowledg of our Church which he blameth and of the Church of England to which he is returned do compare them both with that description and accordingly esteem of both as he shall fynd the estate of them to be in deed and in truth Thereby also will plainely appeare how this adversarie neither writeth nor walketh in the feare of God to whom notwithstanding he must giue account of al these things And for the particulars he mentioneth that the equitie of our cause and iniquitie of his dealing may better appeare I will in the treating of them first set down the words of that description from whence he would draw his opposition and then speak of the particulars themselues And first for the body of the Church considered in her parts as here he would seem to except against vs from one to another through the severall parts of this body thus it is set downe in that description of a true Church Pag. 2. Suerly if this Church be considered in her parts it shall appeare most beautifull yea most wonderfull and even ravishing the senses to conceive much more to behold what then to enioy so blessed a communion For behold her King and Lord is the King of peace and Lord himself of all glorie She enioyeth most holy and heavenly lawes most faithfull vigilant Pastours most sincere pure Teachers most carefull and vpright Governours most diligent and trustie Deacons most loving and sober Relievers and a most humble meek obedient faithfull loving people every stone living elect and precious every stone hath his beautie his burden and his order All bound to edify one another exhort reproue comfort one another lovingly as to their owne members faithfully as in the eyes of God Thus it standeth in that description Towching which now I would aske 1. Whether he hold this description herein to be true and agreable to the word of God 2. Whether he dare deny Iesus Christ to be the King and Lord of our Church 3. Whether he acknowledg him onely to be the King Lord of every true visible Church vpon the earth 4. Whether these be the Offices and functions which he as Lord and King hath appointed to his Church namely Pastors Teachers Elders Deacons Relievers 5. Whether these be had in the Church of England to which he is now gone and in whom they are there to be found 6. Whether the Church Officers there be so qualified as here is set downe 7. Finally whether if any would compare the estate of that Church in the body officers members lawes and walking thereof with the description of a true visible Church out of the word of God he might not make another maner treatise and other maner of obiections against them then this Priest of theirs doth against vs. But to proceed for the Pastor with which office he beginneth first thus are his qualities and duties set down in that descriptioÌ„ of a true Church Pag. 3. Their Pastour must be apt to teach no yong Schâ—ler able to divide the word aright holding fast that
in the worship of God but saith playnly if the coÌ„mandement Deut. 12. be moral which he cannot deny if he hold it morall for the Images and altars that then no civill vse of them may be had at all much lesse spiritual And yet I suppose he will not deny but Iehu the King of Israel put the house of Baal to a lawfull vse 2 King 10.27 7. The seaventh is that whereas we shewed the Dutch here that they vse a new censure of Suspension which Christ hath not appoynted yet we ourselves suspended M. S. many moneths together before his excoÌ„munication But this he should have proved so to have ben The Dutch suspend their members from the Lords supper and yet admit them to participation of the word and prayer so did not we But the case was thus The said Mat. Sl. having declined from the truth which before he professed with vs to sundry errors of the Dutch here it required many dayes to deale with him and convince him in them all which we were carefull to do Now when some of them being handled he was admonished by the Church to repent and returne to the truth and he notwithstanding obstinately persisted against the voyce of Christ so speaking vnto him there were some of vs who thought it not lawfull to have any more spirituall coÌ„munion with him when he came to our publik metings Whereabout there bâ—ing some question and all the particulars being not yet finished it was agreed for the present when he did so come to deale with him about the residue of the poynts yet remaining Which being donne and divers dayes week after week being so imployed for the convincing of him in all the Church did then excoÌ„municate him as here is said and so he remaineth at this day a man overcome with the love of this world here called his preferment and never a whit too good when he was at the best to be of our fellowship which is in the Gospell of Iesus Christ. For which he that thinketh any too good is himself stark naught 8. For the eight about non residency howsoever he speak of Mr Br. his absence frâ—m the Church and this without any leave thereof yet himself knoweth that he with some others of vs was vpon speciall occasion sent by the Church into England and there imployed a long time about that busines Wherein also what good paynes he took with what great carefulnes even this White himself was often a present beholder witnes When he stayed there vpon other occasion he saith it was not so long as here is deceitfully pretended though longer then he or we would have had it and that he could not then possibly do otherwise as things fell out But I will not here insist to speake what may be done in cases of necessitie or speciall occasion or to put difference between factours servants and men agreing together on mutuall conditions nor vpon the difference that is between Ministers of the word and the Deacons and specially the difference between one man having two three or fower benefices as they call them by reason whereof though he be still with some of those Churches yet must he needs be a non resident all his life and between one Church having two three or mo Deacons by meanes whereof though some be absent vpon occasion yet there are other vsually present to performe the duties apperteyning to the office notwithstanding But of these things I will not stand For that which we desier and approve is that he which hath an office should waite on his office Rom. 12.7.8 9. Now followeth the last of his instances but not the least for the lyes and sclanders conteined therein The first particular here spoken of is about this that we blamed in the Dutch Church of this towne that they receive vnrepentant excommunicants to be members of their Church which by this meanes becommeth one body with such as be delivered vnto Sathan But this man had no list to set it downe in our owne words because he hath no love to speak of things as the truth is And if there were no other corruption but this onely in the Church aforesaid let such as are of judgment consider whether we have not just cause to put difference between it the other Churches of these countreyes that stand not in like transgression of which we spake before pag. 25. and whether we which know these things and have had dealing with them thereabout may suffer the members of our Church to joyne with them in this estate in any part of their worship and Ministration be it the preaching of the word or any other whatsoever Yet notwithstanding it is false that he saith we excommunicated our owne members onely for hearing the word preached amongst the Dutch or French for those whome yet we haue cast out hereabout it hath bene partly for their revolting froÌ„ the trueth which they have professed with vs to the corruptions of these Churches which declining as they may shew in hearing the word preached among them in such estate so are we accordingly to esteem thereof and partly for other sinnes withall whereinto they have fallen And a most shamelesly it is that he saith we are our selves one body with an excommunicate from the French Church The party whom he intendeth now one of the Elders of our Church was not excommunicated by them but did himself leave them for their corruptions after he had long much dealt with them in all good manner to the vttermost of his power thereabout they persisted therein notwithstanding The next particular here spoken of is about our dislike of them for that they observe daies and times consecrating certaine dayes in the yeare to the Nativitie Resurrection Ascension of Christ c. Which this adversarie himself knoweth we do not though his conscience be so seared as he careth not how he bely vs and abuse the Reader so he may seem to say something against vs. And straunge it is if he were not impudent out of measure that he is not ashamed to say that we observe their holy dayes as much as they do A thing which is false in both the instances which himself giveth hereabout the one being about the shutting of shops the other about our publick meetings for worship on those dayes For towching the first such of vs as shut their shops do it not in respect of religion or with observance of publick worship as they do but partly thinking it to be a thing civill which may be done at the Magistrats appointment seing no spirituall observation is vrged vpon vs withall partly chusing rather so to do then to pay the penalty whereto otherwise they are lyable it being far more then in compasse of the day they could by their labour obteyn Others of vs do on those dayes follow their ordinary labour some have bene called and have answered it before the Magistrates alledging divers reasons of their
office and the thing before this tyme not knowen to the Church concerning him although if it had bene knowen consideration were to be had of the nature of the thing done of the condition of the person of the estate of the Church and other the like circumstances to be observed thereabout that both before and after his being in office he had well approved himself to and with the Church to the great help comfort of vs all c. 2. Yet notwithstanding they persisted and left of to participate with the Church in all his ministration therin 3. We entreated them that they would not so walk but to continew with vs as before at least till we might eyther among our selves or by others have further help and dealing about this matter but they would not Wherevpon they were for this leaving of communion with the Church together with other causes which he noteth not cast out and some of them a good while synce vpon their repentance received in againe For that which he saith of not answering the reasons in writing note these things 1. We were absent from the Church when we wrote the reasons aforesaid in a letter sent hither but now were here present with the Church to speak mouth to mouth with any that did or should make question thereabout 2. We also signified that if it were so that we were absent having like occasion as before we would then write as before we had done but being now present to speak and reason together we thought it best so to do Not to speak any thing now of the persons and their dealing that would have it otherwise 3. Yet when the matter was still vrged we further advised agreed about it of some particular circuÌ„stances or cautions to be observed therin Which were set down in writing and given to the ruling Elders for any that would come to read or reason thereabout And vpon occasion we gave the same also in writing to the Eldership of the Dutch Church here These things T. White himself knoweth and heretofore thought it sufficient to satisfy any that were reasonable howsoever now he write thereof And where he saith we would not suffer the reasons to be read in our meeting being requested there vnto sometimes in deed we did not suffer it wishing the parties that were contrary minded vnto vs to shew their reasons out of the word of God whether they were those conteyned in that writing or any other and so to reason from that ground which is the onely rule of our faith sometimes also for the more satisfying of all they were both read and reasoned of in our publik meeting As for playing Sathans part let him apply it to himself who hath heretofore both by word and writing out of the Scriptures approved our cause against the Antichristian estate of the Church of England and having now left and oppugning it yet hath not nor ever can vse as good meanes to disprove it and to approve the estate of that Church whither he is returned With whom also it is so common throughout his book to obiect against vs things very false to conceale or deprave the things he knoweth to be good and all this to calumniate the truth and vs that wiâ—nesse it before the world For that which he annexeth of Mr Ad. such as were here present do neyther remember it nor think it to be true howsoever he affirme it And if it had so bene yet who knoweth not that alteration of practise doth vsually follow alteration of judgement And if in other cases why not in this also Finally we do here know but in part are subiect to erre both in our judgment and in our walking as I deny not but in these things thus much vrged vpon vs we may have done Yet our desire hath bene and I trust shal be alway to try all things by the word of God and to keep that which is good 4. The fourth instance is of W.A. cast out for recalling a former Schisme spoken of a little before in his first instance Whatsoever W.A. now say the Church heard and see what then he spake did If he do still repent of that Schisme standing to the acknowledgemeÌ„t he made that matter is soone ended To the writing of Th. White and others about this matter this answer was given by the Elders which the messengers can testify that it being about excomunicatioÌ„ it was a matter which coÌ„cerned the whole body of the Church and therefore if they had any thing to say thereabout they should come to the Church at our publick meeting and there they should have an answer But thither came they not So themselves kept back an answer from themselves And still Th. VVhite keepeth on his course to write falselie What the schisme here spoken of was whereabout see before pag. 65. As for appealing seing it is from an inferior Iudge to a superiour we hold it Antichristian to enterteyne or admit of such appeales from one Church to another because Christ the Lord hath given like equall power authority to all his Churches on the earth Yet notwithstanding may and ought one Church to help another by any good meanes they can as there is occasion But what is this to the appealing and tryall whereof he speaketh when such as be excoÌ„municated by this Church would have their matters and the like submitted to the Dutch and French Churches here or any other els where For which themselves could not by the word of God shew any warrant And against which we had have these reasons following 1. That the Iudge which God hath ordeyned in these cases is to be submitted vnto and not to any other Deut. 17.8.9.10.11.12 2. That the highest Iudge ordeyned now of the Lord for all sinners by Ecclesiasticall censure is the Church even that particular Church whereof the sinner is a member Mat. 18.17 with 1 Cor. 5.4.5.12.13 3. That all Churches of Christ haue equall power and are not one over another but have Christ himself over all and in middest of all Rev. 1.13 2.1 And therefore in vrging our Church to submit to another Church they sought to draw it into AntichristiaÌ„ bondage which we might by no meanes yeeld vnto Gal. 5.1 Rev. 14.9.12 4. The sinne and sinner being bound in heaven how may the cause be submitted to men on earth Mat. 18.18 5. If the censures of the Church then also other doctrines of the Gospell our faith in Christ might aswell by the same ground be brought to like submission 6. It is contrary also to the Confession of our faith published Artic. 24.25 7. And this way there would be no end of strife for if the two Churches disagreed a third higher must be sought vnto by like reason and if yet they agreed not an higher then that and thus might the vsurped Supremacy of the Romish Church and Pope grow and be established 8. Finally if we might
Idolatry of the heathen or to some false Christian worship And here further whether to the Papists Anabaptists Lutherans or other Protestants professing reformation in sundry things those of great moment c. 2. Whether at the first appearing receiving of the truth or when the adversaries haue ben soundly throughly convinced 3. Whether in dispersion and absence from the Church or living and remayning with it 4. Whether drawen circumvented overcome by others as Aharon and some of the Galatians Exod. 32.1.23.35 Gal. 1.6 or drawing intising seducing of others as they of whom we read Ezech. 44.12 Deut. 13.5.6.12.13 Such as now also be they which publish writings against the trueth the Church c. 5. Whether they did voluntarily yeeld of themselves or fainted being broken with troubles and persecutions 6. Whether they joyned themselves as members or were present onely at their worship 7 Whether being ioyned as members they did partake onely or did administer also and execute their worship themselves 8. Whether slipping aside for a tyme through infirmity or falling away long resisting the meanes offred for their recovery or labouring what they could to chaunge or abolish the true religion worship of God 9. Lastly whether before or after the Church hath discussed and agreed what to do in this matter For the quality of the persons 1. Whether they were in office before or not 2. VVhether they be fit for office or not Els what blot should they beare in this behalf who for their sundry defects are altogether vnfit therefore never to be taken into office though they never had fallen from the trueth As they of Aharons seed who had a blemish in their body might never be Priests though they did neuer fall to Idolatry Lev. 21.17 c. For the estate of the Church 1. VVhether it were but newly and weakly entred into the faith and way of Christ or had ben long and well established therein 2. VVhether as yet it were vnsetled and tossed hither and thither to and fro or were setled and well together 3. Whether it haue great and present need of some to be taken into office 4. VVhether it have others in all respects as fit to be chosen As Paul when he refused Iohn Mark had Silas whome he chose to take with him Act. 15.25.26.27.32.38.40 Secondly that the Church do well know or trie such as have so fallē afore they do afterward entertayn them into office As Paul may be noted to haue done with Mark whom yet Barnabas did sooner receive as being his sisters sonne well knowen vnto him before Col. 4.10 2 Tim. 4.11 with Act. 15.38.39 Finally that none be contentious but that all of vs duly considering the former cautions and the like we take the fittest whom God in this estate of the Church doth offer endeavouring to keep the vnity of the spirit in the bond of peace that we may with love and comfort proceed in that wherevnto we are come to the prayse of God and to the further building vpholding of the whole Church of all the members thereof in the trueth of the Gospell of Iesus Christ. 1 Cor. 11.16 Ephe. 4.2.3 Phil. 3.15.16 Gal. 6.16 This for the present so to be mynded observed as if others shall at any tyme shew vs better from the word of God we be alway ready to receive it in the Lord. An Answer to the Reasons alledged to prove the vse of the Lords prayer as a Prayer Objection 1. AN expresse commaundement neither contrary to nature nor analogie of Faith and agreable also to the drift and tenour of the place ought litterally to be vnderstood and obeyed But this Math. 6.9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. And Luk. 11.2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 say Our Father c. is such an expresse cōmaundement c. Ergo It is also so to be vnderstood and vsed Answer 1. This reason was alledged before Where see what is answered vnto it pag. 30. 2. The Assumption or second part of the reason is but barely affirmed not proved at all 3. How is it agreable to the nature of prayer and analogy of faith that one man or Church at any time should so pray as asking all things that ever any in the world haue needed or shall need vpon any occasion whatsoever Or that we now should offer such prayer and worship vnto God as we cannot have assurance by the Scriptures that ever the Apostles or other Christians approved of God did so vse at any time Or to keep alwayes a set forme of words for our prayer to God 4. How is it agreable to the drift and tenour of the place that Christ did so commaund it to be vsed as he pretendeth 1. For then it should be sinne to pray at any time and not to say it seing Christ hath thus given his commaundement concerning it Luk. 11.2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. When ye pray say Our father c. 2. And thus also we should be bound to say it twise over together at everie time we vse it because Mathew and Luke in some words and clauses recorded it diversly And who can say we ought to vse the words of the one more then of the other 3. But both the cōmaundement it self and the circumstances about it noted in the Evangelists shew it to be given for a rule of prayer and therefore so to vse it is that which is agreable to the tenour and drift of the place As we haue heretofore shewed in divers Treatises yet vnanswered 5. By literall vnderstanding of Christs words in the same sermon do the Anabaptists gather that it is vnlawfull for Christiās to take an oth to go to warre to beare Magistracy c. pleading the expresse words and commaundement of Christ. Math. 5.34.39 c. with many other pretences which they have thereabout Shall we therefore admit of their errors or vnderstand those Scriptures as they would have vs Not to speak of other as expresse speaches or any collections thereabout As Mat. 6.17 Ioh. 13.5.12.14.15 Objection 2. 2. If Christ had taught onely to pray to this effect then had he taught nothing but that which Iohns Disciples all the faithfull practised before for the Prayers of the Saints as of Salomon Nehemiah Daniel were to that effect before Answer 1. What if all this be graunted What would follow therevpon Doth not christ in the same sermō of his teach the very same things that Moses in effect had taught before But now by reason of the false gloses of the Pharisees he explaned them according to their true meaning Math. 5.17 c. 2. In like maner there being great abuse about prayer as is particularlie noted by Mathew Christ sheweth them how to vse it aright Math. 6.5.6.7 c. 3. If he meane that the prayers of the holy men in former tymes were of such things as here be cōprised it is true that they thē prayed to this