If so then the argument that he was not a Minister because ignorant falls to the ground To this nothing was replyed that we could call to minde But they might all prophecy one by one 1 Cor. 14. 31. It was answered that that was cleerly meant of the Prophets amongst them who were officers and had an extraordinary gift of prophesie by revelation given them verse 30. and not of every one of the people at large 1 Cor. 12. 29. Ephes. 4. 11. No it was not extraordinary for they were to speak to edification exhortation and comfort As if extraordinary officers might not speak to those ends It was further answered that the text in the Ephes. was not exclusive of others and therefore others might preach though not enumerated for elsewhere others were mentioned namely helps governments 1 Cor. 12. It was replied first that though there was mention made of helps and governments which many did interpret of ruling officers Ephes. 4. speaks of officers designed for preaching of doctrine though all officers might not be set downe here yet none ever questioned whether all for doctrine were not set downe Secondly that this must be a full enumeration of all officers for preaching for the Apostle mentions the gifs Christ gave to his Church at his Ascension and if here were not all then Christ at the time of his Ascension did not give all gifs sufficient for his Church which could not be imagined whereupon in the opening of that place four particulars were observed first the time when Christ received and gave these gifts to men Psalm 68. 18. at the time of his Ascension when he led captivity captive it being an expression taken from triumphs of Conquerors after great victories it was their custome then to give gifts and largesses to the people so Christ ascending into Heaven and leading the devill hell and death as it were in triumph having destroyed them and delivered his people from their power at that time gave gifts unto his Church Secondly the gifts given were Apostles c. which were officers for the good of his Church Thirdly the end to which they were given the perfecting the body of the Saints c. Fourthly the time how long they were to continue till we all come c. that is to the end of the world while there shall be any that must be brought into the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of Christ and to be perfected in him which alwaies will be as long as the world doth last so that Christ at that time when hee led captive all his enemies that did oppose him in his state of humiliation received gifts and gave them to men that it might appear that in spight of all those enemies he would provide such gifts and officers as were necessary for his Church Now the Apostle reckoning up those gifts in particular and pointing out the ends for which they were given and the time how long they were to last it cannot be supposed that eyther Christ did not then receive and give all gifts necessary or that the Holy Ghost in enumerating those he received and gave should not enumerate all so that they who are not within the number of those officers there mentioned are none of the gifts given to the Church at the time of Christs ascension for the end specified and therefore there must be some other time when Christ gave those to the Church who are only gifted brethren for those ends of perfecting the Saints the worke of the Ministry the edifying of the body of Christ or else it must be acknowledged that themselves not preaching by way of office according to their former answer cannot have so good authority to preach in publick as they have who are the Officers designed by Christ Thirdly whereas it was answered that in the very same chapter the members are said to edifie one another the reply was this by edifying was not in faith and knowledge by preaching but it was edifying in love for so the words are verse 16. it was answered by Master Earbury that those were given ex abundanti though the works they were to doe were in other hands before This being a begging of the question it was further said all are not Apostles c. and that private men were not allowed to doe the works of Apostles and Evangelists and therefore not of Pastors and Teachers if some parts of the text were exclusive so were others it was added that then it will follow if Christ had never given Apostles Prophets c. yet the Saints might have been perfected the body of Christ edified and all brought into the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God unto a perfect man unto the measure of the stature of the fulnesse of Christ which seemeth very strange to us We were ready to have pressed other arguments to prove that private men have no authority to preach but the multitude of Souldiers in a violent manner called upon us to prove our calling whereupon it was thus argued They who were qualified approved called ordained according to the minde of Christ are the Ministers of Christ But some Ministers in the Church of England are qualified approved c. Ergo some Ministers in the Church of England are the true Ministers of Christ The minor was denied In the proof of which he began with qualifications which were set down 1 Tim. 3. Titus 1. They who have the qualifications there set down are qualified according to the mind of Christ but some Ministers in the Church of England have those qualifications Ergo it is true that some Ministers in the Church of England are qualified according to the mind of Christ The minor was denied It was demanded what qualifications were wanting the answer was made by Master Earbury that it was one qualification that Ministers must be no strikers but all the Ministers in England are strikers The reply Master Reynolds Master Harris Master Wilkinson are no strikers therefore all are not Master Earbury said they are and all are strikers which hee laboured to prove thus They who destroy the communion of Saints and inflict temporall punishments upon spirituall weaknesse are strikers but all the Ministers of England do so Ergo Both propositions were denied first the major because the Apostle in both places means it of fighting striking according to the usuall acception of the word and of outward violence secondly the minor was denied with this confirmation they that have faith and love do not destroy the communion of the Saints but many Ministers in the Church of England have true faith and love Ergo It was answered by Master Earbury that the Ministers of the Church of England had not Gospel faith and love Ergo It was sayd to that by one of the Ministers that hee himself had a saving justifying faith of the same kinde with that of Abraham therefore hee had a Gospel faith But it was said by Mr.
not all five there were none It was answered that Apostles c. were extraordinary Officers but Pastours and Teachers were ordinary Officers to be continued in the Church for the making of Saints by the blessing of God upon their ministery nay for the edefying and perfecting of Saints all Saints for the edefying of the whole body till wee all come not onely into the unity of the faith but to the perfection of the fulnesse of Christ and therefore no Saint is so perfect or excellent a scholar or disciple but he may be taught by the Ministers of Christ for though there be a great deale of variety in regard of those severall degrees of perfection wch are to be found in severall Saints yet the highest perfection of the most accomplished Saint here below is said to be according to the measure of the gift of Christ Ephes. 4. 7. who gave Pastours and Teachers vers. 11 to bring the Saints to the highest perfection attainable in this life verse the 12. Finally it was made most cleare and evident to Master Erbury and all the company that Christ did not only make promises to the Apostles themselvs but to such as were to succeed them in their ordinary Ministery that is to such as were to teach and baptize even unto the end of the world Mat. 28. 19 20. And when enquiry was made who were the successors of the Apostles the answer was that the Elders were the successors of the Apostles because the Apostle when he was to take his leave Act. 20. sent to Ephesus for the Elders of the Church verse 17. and recommended the oversight of the Church to them acknowledging that the Elders were Bishops or overseers of the Holy Ghosts making here is if we may so call it a kind of resignation a most manifest recommendation of the people to whom he had preached to the care of the Elders when Saint Paul was to see their faces no more Acts 20. 25. There was something else objected about the order of the Corinthian-Churches from the 1 Cor. 14. And to that objection there were very many satisfying answers given some of them shall be related First it is evident that the Apostle doth rebuke the disorders in those Churches which did manifestly tend to confusion though caused or occasioned by such as did pretend to Revelation verse 26. How is it then brethren when yee come together every one of you hath a Psalme hath a doctrine hath a tongue hath a revelation hath an interpretation let all things be done unto edifying The Apostle doth declare that he who pretended a revelation was to be tried and judged by the Prophets verse 29. for the spirits of the Prophets are to be subject to the Prophets verse 32. Moreover it is manifest that the Apostle doth not presse the observation of this order as a meer prudential matter but presses it as one of the commandments of the Lord which doth oblige even Prophets and spirituall men verse 37. If any man think himselfe be a Prophet or spirituall let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandements of the Lord Finally there were these four points distinctly proved First that divers amongst the Corinthians were endued with the gift of Prophesie which was as extraordinary as the gift of Tongues or Miracles and no argument taken from an extraordinary example and an extraordinary gift doth prove that ungifted men are authorised to Preach or Prophesie in an ordinary course Secondly divers among the Corinthians were enriched by Christ in every thing in al utterance and in al knowledge 1 Cor. 1. 5. but sure every Saint is not inriched in utterance and all knowledge Thirdly it is most manifest that every Saint did not ordinarily preach or prophesie amongst the Corinthians 1 Cor. 12. 29. Are all Apostles are all Prophets are all teachers are all workers of miracles and verse 30. Have all the gifts of healing c. all the Saints did not teach but only they that had the gift of teaching even as all did not work miracles all did not interpret no more then they did all speake with tongues Fourthly it is most evident that they only did teach whom God set or appointed to teach in the Church and God did set some not all to teach in the Church 1 Cor. 12. 28. Every member is not an eye for where then were the hearing verse 17. Now God hath set the members every one of them in the body even as it hath pleased him verse 18. and every member must be content with its place and observe that order which God hath set The Saints may find themselves work enough if they prepare for hearing and heare as they ought and practise what they heare and therefore they should not take the work of Preaching upon them which is sufficient to take up the whole man but leave it to them whom God hath appointed to give themselves wholly to prayer and preaching It was also declared unto them that Reverend Mr Cotton of New-England was now brought to see their opinion which was once his own to be an error and subscribes to our judgement with a great deale of ingenuity and sweetnesse in his Booke of the Keyes the 20th page The opponents were not able to reply any thing to these answers but desired to know when we would meet again we told them that we could not meet untill that day three weeks because the monethly Fast was to be observed upon the next week and the fifth of November the next week after whereupon it was desired by some of Master Erbury his adherents that our next question might be to this effect Whether there was any Ministry committed to the hands of select persons in the Church of Christ When we came to the place of meeting and the question formerly agreed upon at the last meeting was red which was to be the subject of the present conference it was decried by the Soldiers who denied that to be the question yet we are most assured that it was resolved upon to be then disputed It was desired that we might read the Theses in which the question was fully stated because they did give much light to the clearing of that question which they so much desired at length after much importunity it was yeelded to that we should read them which was done as followeth 1. Almighty God hath and will have a Church on earth unto the end of the world 2 The Father hath committed unto his Son Jesus Christ a the second Person in the blessed Trinity both b God and c man d all power and judgement over this Church and hath appointed him to be a e king a f priest and a g prophet thereunto h so long as the Church shall continue here on earth 3 The Lord Jesus doth not only teach his Church inwardly but hath also appointed external ordinances viz. i preaching the word and
administration of Sacraments for the edifying of his Church to the k end of the world 4 For this preaching of the word and administration of Sacraments Christ hath l appointed some select persons unto whom he hath m committed the Ministry of Reconciliation 5 Of these some had a more n large commission reaching to all Nations as the Apostles others were appointed as o Pastors and Teachers to p some more particular and speciall places 6 These Pastors and Teachers are q officers of Christs appointment r distinct from the flock whom they teach and take care of as the severall names which are given them in Scripture do import viz. s Elders Stewards Watchmen Overseers Ministers Rulers Ambassadours men that must give an account who are therefore as persons intrusted to give themselves wholly unto this worke 7 These Officers thus instituted are to continue in the t Church so long as Christ hath a Gospel to be preached Sacraments to be administred Saints to be perfected a body to be edified gain-sayers to be convinced a flock to be fed that is to say unto the end of the World 8 Notwithstanding this publique office and ordinance of Christ for the edification of the Church there lyeth a duty upon private Christians within the bounds of private Christians to teach and build up one another as parents their children masters their servants and one Christian another in their communion one with another After the Theses were read some of the Commanders sayd that they did not differ from us in them and therefore would have us to prove our call we told them that although we were ready to do that yet since this was the Question agreed upon on both sides and Mr. Earbury for his part embraced it and wee had stated it in our Theses wee could not yield to the altering of it but by the clamours reproaches and uncivill language and behaviour of some present we were born down and another Question was yielded unto which was Whether those that are called Ministers had any more authority to Preach in publique then private Christians which were gifted whereupon since the Souldiers would have it so one of our company undertook to prove that they had no authority to Preach what ever we had His argument was this They that had authority to Preach have such names and titles importing an office and calling which are given to Preachers in the Scripture But they had not those names and titles that are given to Preachers in the Scripture therefore they had no authority to Preach The minor being denyed it was thus proved The names and titles that are given to Preachers in the Scripture are such as these viz. Pastors Teachers Stewards Watch-men Ambassadours Over-seers Ministers Rulers and such as must give an account c. But these names and titles did not agree to them therefore they had no authority to Preach The major was denyed this was undertaken to be proved by the parts and first it was proved that Pastours and Teachers were names and titles given to Preachers Ephes. 4. 11. was produced for the proof of it hee gave some Apostles c. some Pastors and Teachers these name and titles of Pastours and Teachers were given here to Preachers and men in office and not to gifted brethren as appears by the connexion and scope of the place First it was answered that this place did not prove the thing for then Preachers must be Prophets and Apostles c. also To this was replyed that that did not follow in regard Prophets and Apostles were extraordinary officers pro tempore for the first planting and founding of the Church and therefore though Preachers were not Prophets and Apostles yet they were Pastours and Teachers and were ordinary officers and to continue in the Church Secondly it was sayd there was no such distinction of extraordinary and ordinary in the Scripture and that the answer was not sufficient It was replyed that we read not the word ordinary neither yet it follows not that therefore there were not ordinary neither read we the word Trinity yet it follows not that there are not three Persons Thirdly another said they did not preach as men in office but only as gifted brethren and therefore though those names did agree to men in office yet that did not hinder but that they might be Preachers in another capacity It was replyed that did imply a contradiction to preach publickly and yet to be a private man in regard that to preach implyed a publicke office and mission Rom. 10. 14. so that for any man to take upon him a publick office which was not an officer did usurpe as if a common Souldier should do the work of a Colonel without a Commission or a call though he be never so skilfull shall be thought to usurpe and a Barrister though hee be more able then the Judge on the bench yet must not take upon him the Judges office before hee is called to it as well as qualified for it Every man must use his gifts in his own sphere and compasse a Pastour in a publick way and a private man in private wayes of edification each member of the body according to its own measure Ephes. 4. 16. But they were not out of their station in this as a private man should be in the work of a Magistrate Judge or Colonel because they find that private men in Scripture have taught publickly without an office and therefore they may do so too for proof hereof was produced the example of those Acts 4. It was answered that it doth not appeare that they who preached were private men Philip who was named was an Evangelist the rest might be Elders in office at Jerusalem there used to be Apostles Elders and Brethren and if all were dispersed but the Apostles then Elders as well as private Brethren beside whoever they were in probability they had instructions and commission from the Apostles to do what they did and so they did it not without a mission however the case was extraordinary and it doth no way follow if where no officers are to doe a work private persons being furnished with more notable gifts then any now ordinarily are may endevour to propagate the Gospel where it was not at all therefore in ordinary times of the Church where officers are who are furnished with greater abilities and a speciall call others should take their work out of their hands and do that in a constituted Church which others did where there was no Church at all nor officers to gather one But Apollo preached Acts 18. 26. true But how prove they hee was no Minister hee is called so in expresse tearms 1 Cor. 3. 5. They prove hee was none because he was ignorant and instructed by Aquila and Priscilla But did hee well to preach being ignorant yes hee was able to make out Jesus Christ being eloquent and mighty in the Scriptures