Selected quad for the lemma: world_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
world_n	church_n	congregation_n	visible_a	1,843	5	9.2353	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A74651	The clergie in their colors or, the pride and avarice of the Presbyterian clergie hindering reformation: shewing, how from time to time they have not onely been the fomenters of this first and second war, but also by their horrid fallacies have to this present time deluded the common-vvealth. Discovered in a plain and familiar dialogue betvveen Philalethes and Presbyter.; Pride and avarice of the clergie.	Boun, Abraham.	1651 (1651)	Wing B3835; Thomason E1416_1; ESTC R209447	53,245	199

the Parents at least one of them were believers And touching that place in the Acts which onely seemes so plain to you If I should admit the promise there mentioned to be that which you meane which may verie well be questioned it makes nothing to prove that for which its intended by the men of your opinion who will have all the children in their Parish if their parents come to Church to be baptized The next words clear it from such construction and give you a full answer The promise is made to you and to your children and to such as are a far off but the Apostle further addes even as manie as the Lord our God shall call so that by your construction this must be concluded Converts have right to the promise and so have their children c. You conceive the State hath done well in debarring the wicked and abominable from the Lords Table and if the Parents be separated or excommunicate so I account them who are debarred from that Sacrament how can their children have right to the other as being born of believing Parents Pr. We conceive we have sufficient warrant to baptize all Infants that are brought to us being offered in the Church to be baptized For although their immediate Parents were neither of them Beleivers yet some of their ancestors might be and we are bound in charitie to believe they were Believers for God sheweth mercy to thousands of generations of them that love him Ph. You are without doubt singular in your opinion and upon this ground all the children of Turks are to be baptized if offered in the Congregations because they proceed from Abraham by Hagar and all the Jews because they proceed from Sem yea and all the Gentiles because they proceed from Japheth and all the world because they proceed from Adam I never heard asserted untill of late nor do I think any Orthodox Divine will maintain it I confess I once heard something to that purpose from a Minister whom you know very confidently affirmed But afterwards he having to deal with the Anabaptists forsook that hold and stood onely upon that point to prove that some Infants had right to or might be baptized which he then and at other times proved by Doctor Featleys arguments against the Anabaptists Pr. How ever it may be with the children of Turks and other Infidels yet there is no doubt but the children of such as are members of the Church by outward profession although we see not the signes of grace and election in them have right to Baptism Ph. I account godless impenitent persons living in the bosome of the Church as Infidels and Heathens and the Apostles rule is so and in the language of the Scripture they are dogs and swine to whom holy things are not to be given nor the childrens bread to be cast to them Matth. 7.6 And their children where neither Parent can be judged a believer which no notorious wicked man or woman can be are pronounced unclean 1 Corinth 7.14 How ever God may shew mercie the Church ought to judge according to outward appearance and not to admit the wicked Parents to the one Sacrament nor their children to the other without reformation in the Parents or one of them But I pray you why was not the child baptized which was brought from another Parish to your Congregation to be baptized I understand the Minister refused to baptize it Pr. It s true but it was not refused upon your ground the Minister consulted with the heads of the Parish and upon debate of the matter they concluded it was not fit it should be baptized there least it might be chargeable to the Parish Ph. I am sorrie to hear this carnal resolution from such a Minister and so long taught a people It seems some Ministers and people dare transgress the Law of God if it be for advantage As the Pharisees taught upon pretence of their Corban the Box But how doth this agree with that tenet that all children of such as are members of the Church by outward profession which all are in that Parish where that Childe was born ought to be baptized Pr. If it be a fault let him or them answer for it who did it it may be they are able to give satisfaction therein But touching that which you said before that some are to be accounted unclean we cannot censure any as profane or unclean nor keep them from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper the Minister cannot do it of himself without the Elders Church-Officers joyn with him Although the Minister know the Communicants to be prodigiously wicked or ignorant and in all probabilitie eat and drink their own judgment or damnation he cannot keep them from the Sacrament Such must be suspended by the Church before the Minister can refuse to admit them and untill then their children ought not to be denied the Sacrament of Baptisme for the reason before alledged Ph. Touching admitting all to the Lords Supper upon that ground because the Minister cannot refuse them not being prohibited by the Church you mean the Presbyterie I answer the Minister is bound to forbear to administer the Sacrament to them whom he knowes eat and drink their own judgment for the reasons aforesaid Although you have not the power of the Church-censures in your hand The reason is clear because it is alwaies a sin to give holy things to dogs and to prophane Gods Ordinances But it s no sin to forbear to administer a Sacrament upon just occasion for a time The Jews were not reproved for omission of Circumcision in the Wilderness Joshua 5.5 and the Passeover upon just occasion might be deferred for a moneth Numb 9.9.10 And although I think it no sin to communicate with the wicked in the Ordinances where I am not a personal actor nor approver of their sin but a partaker Yet it s without doubt a sin to be an actor in such a case for the actor transgresseth the rule and causeth others to transgress Pr. It seems you stumble at mixt Congregations do you ever think to finde a Church on earth so clean as not to have wicked men in it The tares will grow in the field with the wheat untill the harvest which is the end of the world Ph. I confess your mixt Parochiall Congregations do so far make mee stumble that I much question whether they can be reputed true visible Churches of Christ And I hold that manie of them are not having not the essentials either the material nor formal causes of a Church in Gospel sense but are rather the Synagogues of Satan like Priests like people and the best are leprous and very unclean I know the Tares shall grow with the wheat Matth. 13.38 but if you mean by Tares profane wicked men they shall grow in the field that is in the world not in the Church the Tares which shall be in the Church untill the harvest are hypocrites profane men shall be

5.19 Whosoever shall break one of the least commandements and teach men so shall be least in the Kingdome of heaven which I take to be meant of the Church of God under the Gospell And it is to be therefore feared that reformation will be deferred untill the carcases of the chief of these men are fallen in the Wilderness that they may never see the promised land Pr. You censure the faithfull Ministers of the Church very uncharitablie why should you suspect their faithfulness in reforming Gods house seeing they are painfull in their callings and faithfull in that which is committed to them Ph. I honour the faithfull Ministers of the Gospel and I beseech the Lord to increase their number But besides what I have formerly said I will remember you of what passed in these last years and by that you may judge of their faithfulness whom you so much commend It s manifest in what condition the Parlament found this whole Nation at their first meeting even posting in all hast to Rome longing after the Garlick and Onions of Egypt and they had Captains made to lead them thither the whole Rabble of Prelates as their Captaines and cheifs And the inferiour Clergy Parsons Vicars Curates Priests c. with the rest of their Apocryphall Ecclesiasticall Orders as their Lieutenants and inferiour Officers And these faithfull men you speak of serving the time made no head against the rest but patiently bear what their Lords put upon them and so marched with the throng towards Egypt Pr. I cannot say but that the Church of England although the most famous Church in the World furnished with a most learned and orthodox Clergie had manie in it who were very corrupt and superstitious But these are removed and orthodox godly and learned Divines of whom we formerly spake put in their roomes and places Ph. You glorie like the Angell of the Church of Laodicea in your gifts and graces and know not your want and poverty Rev. 3.17 It s partly true that in some places the ignorant scandalous and others who would not take the Covenant have been removed and some of these orthodox men put in their roomes and that is and will be the bane of these Churches and Church-men Take but a view of their practices and let that speak how well they have carried themselves within five yeares past since they got their preferments I could instance in many places where superstitious and blind bussards were put out of their Livings and some of these Orthodox men put in their roomes and when they had got good Livings were they or are they contented Some hold livings in the Country and live in London hardly ever coming to the flock but to take the fleece Some hold two or three Livings a peece some leave one and run to another when they can finde a greater nay they will fight for a better Living rather then loose it And yet falsly bewitch the filly people to believe that its the call of God so to do when it s nothing els but the delusion of Satan and of their own wicked hearts to satisfie their ambition and avarice See but how these men presse the Committee for plundered Ministers for augmentations and removals from day to day and how they ingage Parlament men to act for them calling themselves in their Certificats and Petitions godly learned and orthodox Divines And it is observed in the Country that many of those who are thus put in prove more proud covetous and contentious then those which were put out And I doubt not but when these mens bellies are full and they at ease they will agree to make a golden Calfe and rise up to play as their Predecessors did And I do believe that those who serve their cures as they call them by a Deputy will without repentance go to heaven by a Deputy Pr. Although I will not excuse all the Clergie of the land who have two Livings nor their removal from place to place where they had sufficient maintenance before nor the pride contention or avarice of some of them yet I know many of the Clergy of whom I know there is no cause to fear their revolting or falling into popish errours or superstitions or other ill courses they being known to be religious and godly men It is true some are constrained to take two livings for that one will not maintaine them and others for a time to hold two Livings because they are not sure of the better holding it but during the Sequestration Ph. Sir I doubt you have been a little tacked with that Epidemicall disease of a pluralist and guilty of removing from place to place But I must tell you your excuse will not bear you out at Gods Tribunall The very Popish Doctors and Cannon Law condemn pluralitie of Benefices in a Presbyter men do not use to put away their wives nor take another to her which formerly he had upon such pretences The truth is the preaching of the gospel is meerly made a trade to get money they preach for hire run before they be called come in at the window like a thief and preach according to their pay provided they may have sufficient to keep contempt from the Clergie be as powerfull as the Popish Doctors and able through their abundance to contend with their whole Parish and swagger in their silks as their Predecessors did they will be content otherwise they will tell you you rob God in not paying their Tythes and do not allow them honorable maintenance Pr. These things which you charge the Ministers with are inconsistent with honestie and religion and I told you many of the Clergie who intend the reformation according to the foundation laid by the Parliament by advice of the Reverend Assembly of Divines are godly Orthodox and learned men whom in charitie you are bound to belive can never fall into damnable errors heresies or abominable practices Ph. Touching their final estate I will not judge but leave that to Almightie God yet this I dare say none of these men are better then Peter who once acted the Devils part nor better then Aaron who upon like pretence as these men have viz. necessitie or convenience joyned to make the golden Calf nor are they better then their predecessors whose mouths were stopped and their judgments blinded with honorable maintenance and preferment Consider but this Cranmer and Ridley although godly Bishops and Martyrs were two of those who opposed King Edward the fixt and his Councell in the case of Mr. Hooper when he would have omitted popish Ceremonies at his entrance into his Bishoprick Act. Mon. vo pa. 146. Also call to minde Jewell Babbington Chappell Mr. Hutton Davenant Morton Whitgift Ro Abbot Pilkington and Hall who all deserved well of the Church of God and better then most of these Orthodox men whom you so much admire whilest they continued in their uprightness before they were loaden with honor and honorable maintenance But see