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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
world_n	church_n	communion_n	separate_v	1,835	5	9.4254	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A10173	Protestants demonstrations, for Catholiks recusance All taken from such English Protestant bishops, doctors, ministers, parlaments, lawes, decrees, and proceedings, as haue beene printed, published, or allowed among them in England; since the cominge of our king Iames into this kingdome: and for the most parte within the first six or seuen yeares thereof. And euidentlie prouinge by their owne writings, that english Catholiks may not vnder damnable syn, co[m]municate with English Protestants, in their seruice, sermons, or matters of religion: and soe conuincinge by the[m]selues, their religio[n] to be most damnable, & among other things, their ministery to bee voide, false & vsurped.	Broughton, Richard, attributed name.	1615 (1615)	STC 20450; ESTC S112509	81,861	158

expect an Impossibilitie larkes if the skye falleth wee should bee then in as desperate a case by their Religion as before For in their publick article and Rule they haue thus defined generall councells may ●rr euen in things pertayning● Articl of Relig ●rt 21. Feild l. of the church pag. vnto God Vnto which I will add the publicke protestant opinion sett downe by D. Feild in these wordes Bishops ass●mbled in a generall councell haue aut●oritie to interprett scriptures and by their authoritie to supresse all them that gaynesay such interpretation and subiect euery man that shall disobey such determination as they consent vppon to Excommunication and censure of like nature This is the desolate estate of protestants Religion by their owne testimonies without hope of hop●ls generall councell there is noe hope of truthe or saluation in their Religion And with hope of that which can neuer bee the misery is still remaininge for wee are still left in daunger of error to condemne vs and perill of separation from the church out of which as they teach before there is noe saluation remission of sinnes or hope Couell def pa. ●6 Feild pag. 69. of eternall life Therfore seing by vnion and communion in Religion with protestants both by their Iudgments and our owne alsoe wee should bee in this damnable perplexitie and certaine daunger of euerlastinge hell And by remayning in vnitie with the church of Rome in which wee comfort our selues and offer to mayntaine against all opponents herericks or Infidells that the church of Christ Popes and generall Councells cannot iudicially erre in matters of faith wee are freed from those desperate conditions and lyue in moste comfortable hope of true Religion in earth and euerlastinge saluation in heauen wee may not forsake the catholicke church Vr●is orbis of Rome and the whole christian world to ioyne with the parlament and soe miserable protestant church of England and one kingdome For confirmation of this though not needinge to bee confirmed and for further demonstration in this question I argue thus Noe men in time of controuersie about Religion may with securitie and conscience forsake the communion of the superior mother and Apostolick commaunding church or that is taught to haue especiall assistance of God in matters of Religion or that vnto which to adhere by the Iudgment of the primatiue fathers was taken for a suer taken of a true catholick euen by the cōfession of protestants to Ioyne with an Inferior commaunded and subiect church vtterly destitute of such prerogatiues and acknowledged by the doctors thereof to bee erroneous But the Catholicks of England by forsakinge vnion with the church of Rome and communicatinge with english protestants should bee in this conscionles and irreligeous condition Therefore they may not doe yt The maior proposition is three fold contayning in effect three propositions as the argument for breuitie three demonstratiue arguments The first proposition is this The mother superior and commaundinge church may not vvithout greater authoritie bee forsaken to Ioyne vvith a subiect Inferior and commaunded church And it is euidently true otherwise yt should not bee the Mother superior and commaundinge church but the contrary inferior subiect commaunded The second proposition is this That church which in the Iudgment of many hath especiall assistance from God and freedome from error in religion i● rather to bee communicated with then that which by all men euen the best learned of it self is condemned of error and confessed to be fallible and deceauing iudgment And this alsoe is manifestly true for in the first there is either assurednes or contenting hope to bee free from error and obtaine salualtion in the other noe true hope thereof at all but a confessed certainetie of error seducing and to bee damned The third proposition is this That church which by the primatiue fathers had that priuiledge ●s the aduersaries doe graunt that to adhere vnto yt was a signe of a true beleeuing catholicke is reather to bee communicated with then that which neuer had or claymed such prerogatiue And this proposition is likwise apparantlie true for in the former there is securitie from error and in the second euident certaintie to fall into error and state of damnation Now that the case of english catolicks should bee this in all this three propositions if they should communicate with english protestans I doe thus demonstrate by thes protestans them selues and first how the romane church was and still is this mother superior commaundinge Church may appeare by the sentence of his maiestè concerninge that church in this K speach in parlam wordes it is our mother church it was a rule to all both in doctrine and ceremonies when it was in her florishinge and best estate And in the conference Conference at Hamptō pag. 75. at Hampton Court their Bishop Barlowe relateth thus T●e kings resolution is that noe church ought further to seperate it selfe from the church of Rome either in doctrine or ceremonies then shee hath departed from herselfe when shee was in her florishinge and best estate and from Christ our Lord and deade D. Downame Downam l. 1. Anticor ca. 3 pa. 36. denieth not but bothe Iustinian the Emperor and the generall councell of Calcedon in the primatiue church did attribute to the Pope of Rome to bee heade of the churche And the same D. Downame D. Couell D. Sutcliffe Porkins Down supr pag. 106. ●07 Couell plea of Innoc pa. 65. Sutcliff sub vi●p 19 Perk probl pag. 237. 238. and others wittnes that at such time wherein they confesse that church a Rule to all both in doctrine and ceremonies and not to bee separated from it exercised this supreame iurisdict●on in all partes of the worlde Asia Africke and Europe Therefore this Rule to all is not in ruling departed from her selfe or Christ our heade and soe wee m●y not bee seperated from yt Which M. Ormerod proueth further assuring vs that in the Apostles time it claymed thes priuiledges of preeminence indefectibilitie from the irreuocable graunte of Christ in holy Ormer pict pap pag. 78. scriptures his wordes bee thes To proue that the church of Rome hath the preeminence ouer all churches Anacletus lyuing in the Apostles time a blessed Saint and martyr alleageth Math. 16. vers 18. vppon this rocke vvill I build my church and hee expounde●h it thus super hanc petram id est super ecclesiam Romanam vppon this rocke that is vpon the church of Rome vvill I build my church Therfore for any man to say that wee may sepearate our selues from the church of Rome because it is departed from it selfe when it was in her florishing and best estate is not onely a very friuolous and vaine excuse but in their opinion and Relation manifestly false because this church of Rome euen in that her best estate did clayme and by the warrant and graunt of Christ registred in holy scriptures as ample

soe by breakinge any of them Scisme is contracted if I shall but onely proue they haue broken this vnitie in one they are proued Scismaticks by their owne proceedings But to proue them to bee in the highest degree of Scisme I will make demonstration that they are guiltie in breakinge all these vnities And first concerninge their first vnitie of subiection to lawfull Pastors I argue thus At the begynning of protestancie either the pastors of the Romane church namely the Pope when they reuolted from him were true pastors or not if they were not then their pretended ordination and Episcopalitie from thence is voyde if they were their true pastors then they are Scismaticks for their reuolt and disobedience vnto him Secondly I proue yt thus euery church not clayminge to bee supreame the superior mother or commaunding church and yett submitting yt selfe and obedient vnto none is scismaticall for not to obey a lawfull superior Pastor is scisme and their Bishop Barlowe hath told vs before that maioritie of Bishops is Barl. serm Sept. 21. 1606. an apostolicall tradition in all the vvorlde enacted for succedinge posteritie a canon or constitution of the vvhole Trinitie Therefore the english protestant church neuer clayminge this maioritie aboue others and yett obstinately repugnant and disobedient to that which euer had this Maioritie which as is proued by them before is the Romane church must needs bee scismaticall Thirdly D. Feild and these his protestants Feild l. 4. ●● 5 p 202. haue assured vs That amonge those different degrees of obedience which wee must yeeld to them that commaunde and teache vs in the church of God wee must more especially respest the church of Rome then Catholicke Doctors the authoritie of catholicke Bishops or other churches though apo●●olicke Therefore the english protestants soe willfully and maliciously disobedient and contumelious vnto yt are Scismaticks by their owne iudgment Secondly concerning his second vnitie whose breach maketh Scisme and is as hee saith The connexion and Communion vvhich many particular Feild l. 3. pag 70. sup churches and pastors of t●●m haue among● themselues The english protestants haue not communion or connexion with any either true or pretended churche in the worlde in their cheefest poynts of connexion communion or coordination as namely in their pretended Bishops and the manner of making them in Rulinge their congregation in the temporall princes supreamacie c. Therefore by breach of this vnitie alsoe they are Scismaticks by their owne Rule For Confirmation whereof D. Couell setteth downe the doctrine of other protestant churches in these words there is no● Couell def of Hook pa. 33. church where the gouernment by elders or presbytery wanteth this being as essentiall as either the Worde or sacraments And the protestant Author of the booke called Suruey writeth thus The Suru of comm B. pag. 24. english churches differ from all other reformed churches That they differ from the Romane and all other churches they willingly acknowledge therefore they are Scismaticks by their owne Censure For here wee see that there is noe true and reall connexion and communion of the english protestant congregation or pretended Pastors Bishops or ministerie with any either true or pretended church catholicke or protestant reformed or not reformed pastors presbyterie or whatsoeuer they will terme them in all the world And by this alsoe it is euident that they are Scismaticks by breakinge the third protestant vnitie In holdinge the same Rule of faith for these english protestants agreing with noe other church true or false in the Rule of faith as before must needs be Scismaticks alsoe by this title And soe moste notorious in this offence of scisme hauinge obstinately dissolued all christian vnities by their owne confession Further I argue thus whosoeuer by mayntayninge their sect or faction in Religion are forced to such absurdities that by the testimonies of their owne Brethren in Religion they make themselues and all of their doctrine to bee Scismaticks are to bee esteemed such But the english protestants are in this case therefore Scismaticks by their owne sentence The maior proposition is euident And the minor alsoe proued by them before and now breefely in this maner The protestant authors of the offer of Conference supposing that the english parlament protestants will defend their proceedings as they doe write in these words They cannot see how possibly by the Rules of diuinitie Offer of Conference pag. 11. t●e seperation of our churches from the church of Rome and from the Pope supreame heade thereof can bee iustified Then by their owne Rules before they are scismaticks which the same protestants protest expressely in this maner They protest to all the world that the Pope and the c●urch of Rome and in them God and Christ sup pag. 16. Iesus himsel●e haue had greate wronge and indignitie offered vnto them and that all the protestant churches are scismatic●ll in ●orsakinge vnitie and communion with them Which is further confirmed by an other of their reformed brethren though writinge somewhat later then my sixe yeares limitation whoe speaketh in this order As wee haue saide vnto you called Brounists soe Declaratiō of the misterie of iniquitie An. 1612. pag. 156. wee say to England and to the presbytery holdinge of the Pope and that profession as you do● Then haue you of England and all the nations of the earthe synned gr●ately to seperate from Rome in that you were all of one bodie and members one of an other and being bele●uers in Christ Iesus they are your brethren and ought not to seperate from Rome as you haue done If you of England and the presbyterie and you called Brouni●●s did make any conscience to walke by the Rules of Christs ●erein you ●ould not wal●e towards Rome as you doe Againe I argue in this maner whosoeuer are ●ither by themselues or others that bee in their opinion learned and consenting with them in all essentiall and materiall points condemned and censured to bee Scismaticks are to bee adiudged and auoyded as such in spirituall communications But these english protestants both parlamentaries and puritanes are in this state Therefore to bee as such adiudged and forsaken in Religeous communications The maior is euidently true because to bee in Scisme which excludeth forth of the true church out of which by these protestants before there is noe hope of saluation is a point both materiall and essentiall in Religion The minor proposition is proued by these protestants and puritanes mutually condemning themselues their essentially agreing brethren to bee scismaticks First their late protestant Archbishop of Canterbury D. Bancroft then of London in their publick Conference before the kinge calleth them scismaticks yt is thus recorded for action by their Bishop Barlowe in these wordes Cōferēce at Hampton Court p. 26. The Bishop of London kneelinge downe moste humbly desired his maiestie that the auntient Canon might bee remembred which saith that

onely allowance by a woman vncapable either to haue or giue such power therefore because men in protestants religion may not bee papists nor lyers nor say that soe many of their worthies Bishopps and doctors assuring vs before that they doe not differ in any one essentiall or materiall point bee lyers and dissemblers in religion wee must needs agree with them that say the english ministers haue noe callinge or admittance but by Queene Elizabeth which by them is none at all Againe both vpon the same ground and the like extremitie in their doctrine they are inforced to renownce all ordination from the Pope and church of Rome by this their owne demonstration Noe man can giue that to an other which hee hath not But by them the Pope hath not true ordination Therfore cannot giue yt to others The maior is euidently true and their owne grounde and principle The minor proposition hath beene a common protestant doctrine and must bee iustified by their receaued opinion that the Pope is Antichrist a thinge in religion essentiall for Antichrist that is quite contrary vnto Christ cannot by any meanes bee iudged a true preist and bishop of Christ Thirdly D. Sutcliffe maketh this matter moste cleare in these his wordes Th● Turkes musty i● Sutcliff suru pa. 48. as good a Bishop as the P●pe therefore in his doctrine neither of them a Bishop or able to make either Bishop or preist Therefore in an other worke with publick allowance as also this hath hee writeth of vs in this maner in Sutcliff ag D. kell pa. 4 the Popes church our aduersaries neither haue man●r of ordination nor substance of function they haue not imposition of handes by bishops because they haue not lawfull Bishops Therfore their pretended Bishops if made by such noe Bishops bee not true bishops And soe there bee neither true Bishops nor true and lawfull preists or ministers in the english protestant congregation and soe noe true church nor spirituall communion to bee vsed with them by their owne iudgments And this their new deuise of clayminge a consecration de iure diuino and not their old admittance from Queene Elizabeth was the Protest offer of confer pag. 11. motiue that vrgeth their owne brethren in Religion first to write in thes wordes If prelacie bee de iure diuine by the lawe of God it receaueth breathe and life from the Religion of Rome Whose prelacie and preisthood is euen by our greatest aduersaries acknowledged to bee by diuine institution And this supposed graunted by thes parlamentary protestants thus they add They cannot see how possibly by the rules of diuinitie the separation of our churches from the church of Rome and from the Pope supreame heade thereof can bee iustified And againe in this maner They protest to all the world that the Pope and the church of Rome and in them God 〈◊〉 pa. 16. and Christ Iesus himselfe haue had greate vvronge and that the protestants churches are sc●smaticall in forsakinge the vnion and communion vvith them And this hee that would bee named Archbishop of Canterbury euen by his owne groundes before should rather haue resolued vppon then contrary to his owne iudgment vnderstanding and conscience if I may vse that worde in such proceedings maintayne and aggrauate soe straunge and vnchristian persecutions against sacred and lawfull preisthood in others which though onely imputatiue pretended and vsurped in himselfe hee would haue soe much honored or rather by their Religion Idololatrated and worshipped as an Idoll ens rationis chymaera and noe reall thinge And this is one of his vnholy purchases by directinge Frauncys Mason in soe durtie a dawbinge woorke as his booke of pretended ordination is An other noe lesse prophane is this to demonstrate himselfe and all of his opinion before for the vnitie and generall accorde and agreement of all both english and other protestants in all essentiall substantiall and materiall points of Religion to bee prophane dissemblers seducers and men of noe Religion For in this soe essentiall and substantiall a question of a true and lawfull preisthood or ministery fundamentall or foundation in true worship they are soe diametrically and contradicto●ily d●●ided and separated that some of them considently and as matter of faith beleeue and teach they haue noe callinge or ordination but from a woman vtterly disabled eyther to haue or giue yt the rest as certainely affirme that which they pretend to haue is from Antichrist which likewise can neither giue nor haue yt soe that by noe possibilitie they can bee reconciled to haue any title to a true ministery and Religion Their onely way of Reconcilement in some parte but to their little comfort is this if they will agree that Queene Elizabeth was Antichrist But Concerning their pretended ordination it is aboundantly and demonstratiuely confuted out of their owne lawes writings and diuinitie in a particular booke of that subiect and for that cause I had here passed it ouer with silence had I not beene aduertised that being diners monethes synce readie for the presse it is fallen into their pretended Bishops hands that intend to suppresse it And therefore in the Authors name I request them truely and worde for worde to publish yt with the best answeare they can make vnto yt And his promise is to make noe further reply vnto them in that busines soe confident hee is his booke to bee vnansweareable and their cause vndefensible But for feare they will behaue themselues in this as to my greuous experience they haue verie often done in the like before I must add som●hat in this place And first I tell M. Frauncys Mason b. of Consecrat Mason his directors telling vs that Matthew Parker was consecrated by foure true Bishops or three and a Suffragane That no notorious and contradictory lyers are to bee beleeued in their owne cause especially of such moment But all or moste of the protestant Relators of this by their owne Testimonie are lyers Therefore not to bee beleeued The maior proposition is euidently true And the minor thus p●o●ed for first whereas I finde three relators of this pretended Consecration and Butler epdef of their mis●●on Su●cliff ag D. ●ell pag. 5. Parkers Register Doctor Butler D. Sutcliffe and directed M Mason The first saith that Ihon Suffragan of Do●er was one of these Consecrators D. Sutcliffe his wordes are thus Bishop Parker was consecrated hy imposition of hands of Bishop Barlowe Bishop Couerdale Bishop S●ory and twoe Suffragans of whome mention is made in the act of consecration yett to bee seene M. Mason Mason in ●ons Math. Park telleth there was but one Suff●agane there and hee was of Bedford Soe that in these three protestant cheife writers and allowed r●lators of this pretended consecration there bee thr●e diuers and quite repugnant narrations of which if not all three yett at the leaste twoe of necessitie are notorious lyes and corruptions and all of them cite Matthew

he ther reproueth haue thus con●eated of them it will bee pardonable in Catholicks to thinke of them as themselues doe and reporte and soe wee may not communicate with such hereticks especially when D. Couell againe writeth the like in this Couell des of Hooker pag. 24. maner The begynnings the proceedings the end of them both in England and Scotland serue to this end that order may cease Therefore they are hereticks And to passe ouer this generall state of heresie whereof they are thus manifestly conuicted by their owne testimonie I will breefely sett downe how by their owne confessionalsoe they are guiltie of diuers other particular and singular heresies errors and paradoxes in Religion suffered allowed and maintayned amonge them and soe consequently for that cause alsoe not to bee communicated with in matters of Religion some of them bee recorded or mayntayned by these protestants M. Ormerod setteth downe one of their doctrines in Ormer dial 1. these words children of hereticks and of such as by excommunication are cut from the church may not bee baptized By which opinion ioyned with their other protestant doctrines before the children of all protestants must needs bee damned because there is noe saluation without baptisme Their Bishop of Winchester D. Bilson Bilson suru p. 541. 552. writeth these I doe not finde any scriptures that allowe the Saincts deceas●d the same place of glorie where Christ now is at the right hand of God in the highest heauens till the laste day come Then if noe scriptures teach yt protestants receauing noe other rule cannot beleeue yt and soe by D. Couells sentence they dissolue that communion Couell ag Burg. p. 90. of Sainsts which wee professe to beleeue as an article of Gods truthe The doctrine of Christs discēt into hell is an article of our Creede the protestants censure puritans for heretick for denying of yt yett M. Ormerod a professed writer against puritans condemninge them of many heresies teacheth this doctrine The beleeso Ormer dial ● Ormer pa. ganot pag. of Christ discending into hell to fetch prisoners t●ence is like the fable of Hercules greing to hell to setch thence Theseus Pirothous and Cerberus Thus hee hath written with publicke applau●e and priuiledge of this Article of our faith Therefore M. Parkes setteth downe their protestants Parkes p. 92 opinion herein in this maner Christs discent into hell is noe Article of our Creede but an intruded fable a patch which some Cobl●r or patcher patched to the Creede it is against the Analogie of our faith it ingēdreth many incōueniences many absurde opinions friuolous fables and p●antasticall visions The common opinion of protestants in their arguments against transsubstantiation Christs reall presence in the blessed sacrament of the altar is that the true naturall properties of a bodie cannot bee seperated from yt Yett M. Powell with priuiledge writeth thus The Powell de Antich pa. 499. bodie of Christ after his resurrection had not the naturall properties of a bodie Then by thei● doctrine yt was not a true bodie and soe noe true resurrection and that article of our Creede also is publickly denyed and soe there is noe resurrection of the bodie as followeth by S. Paules doctrine and reasoning thus by their owne translation if Christ bee not risen thē is our preaching 1. Corint 15 v. 14. 17. 18 vayne and your faith alsoe is vayne and if Christ bee not raised your saith is vaine you are yett in your synnes And soe they which are a sheepe in Christ are perished And soe there is noe Resurrection of the bodie noe immortalitie of the soule by this doctrine for a thinge perished is not but hath ceased to bee Therefore M. Parkes writeth of these protestant as before they strike at mayne points of saith shaking the Parkes epi. dedic foundation it self● and calling in que●tion heauen and hell the diuinitie and humanitie yea the verie soule and saluation of our sauiour himselfe And to make it apparant that they generally giue way to all infidelitie The same M. Powell highely commended by D. Sutcliffe writeth thus with publicke approbation it is noe more certaine Powell pref l. de Antic● that God is in heauen Crea●or of visible inuisible things and Iesus Christ the tru● m●ss●●● then that the pope of Rome is the greate Antichrist and the papall church the synagoge of Antichrist But I haue made euident demonstration before by their owne testimonies that it is soe far from truth or apparance thereof that the pope is Antichrist or the papall church his Sinagoge that they haue proued that church to bee the true church of Christ and the Pope to bee the true lawfull vicar of Christ supreame heade of his holy catholicke Church on earth and to whome all Christians in the worlde doe owe obedience in religeous busines Therefore these protestants by their owne published and priuiledged writing haue denyed God And Christ Iesus is not the true Messias by their doctrine Then noe meruayle though D. Feild D. Willet Feild l. 3. e 3 p. 139. will Antil p. 13. Po●ell l de Artichrist p. 494 c. apud parkes pa. sect 23. M. Powell and others deny the virginitie of our ladie for shame I omitt their vnseemely word● and others write Dauid is still in hell to this day when they teach that Christ delyuered none from thence neither is the Messias Yett other protestants sette all men at libertie to beleeue and lyue as they list to bee turkes Iewes pagans or whatsoeuer for they shall all bee saued not withstanding by Christ whome they haue these dishonored and denyed The words of the protestant Author of the booke called Suruey c. bee these The english protestants Suru of cō B pa. 119. teache that Christ hath actually and effectually redeemed all men whatsoeuer Therefore by them all men turkes Iewes pagans c. must needs bee saued because an act and effect acted and effected cannot bee vnacted or vneffected M. Wotton seing how other protestants had ouerthrowne the lawe and Religion of Christ laboureth for himselfe likewise to euacuate the promise to Abraham and the lawe of Moyses and leaue all mankinde in originall syn contracted from Adam and writeth thus Circumcision was not prouided for remedie of originall Wottō def of perk pag. 447. sinne any more then for actuall neither did it remedie the one or the other The like heresies and detestable errors publickly printed and priuiledged amonge them as alsoe their Authors and mayntayners are too many to bee alleadged therefore to giue some coniecture of the rest I will propose one Doctor and Professor of diuinitie in their church a man highly commended in protestants iudgment whoe to omitt all other his bookes and erroneous places in them in one onely place of his publickly warranted and priuiledged Antilogie This professor Doctor Willet writeth thus Tyndalls Willet Antil pag. 203 opiniōs are sounde good