predetermination_n or_o against_o it_o stephen_n bishop_n of_o rome_n hold_v it_o as_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o apostolic_a tradition_n that_o heretic_n give_v true_a baptism_n other_o there_o be_v and_o they_o as_o good_a catholic_n as_o he_o that_o hold_v that_o this_o be_v neither_o matter_n of_o faith_n nor_o matter_n of_o truth_n justin_n martyr_n and_o irenaeus_n hold_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o millenaries_n as_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o though_o justin_n martyr_v deny_v it_o yet_o you_o i_o hope_v will_v affirm_v that_o some_o good_a christian_n hold_v the_o contrary_n s._n augustine_n i_o be_o sure_a hold_v the_o communicate_v of_o infant_n as_o much_o apostolic_a tradition_n as_o the_o baptise_v of_o they_o whether_o the_o bishop_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n of_o his_o time_n hold_v so_o too_o or_o hold_v otherwise_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o determine_v but_o sure_o i_o be_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n at_o this_o present_a hold_v the_o contrary_a the_o 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the_o opposite_a part_n err_v damnable_o and_o deny_v god_n truth_n sufficient_o propound_v or_o they_o do_v not_o if_o they_o do_v than_o they_o which_o do_v deny_v god_n truth_n sufficient_o propound_v may_v go_v to_o heaven_n and_o than_o you_o be_v rash_a and_o uncharitable_a in_o exclude_v we_o though_o we_o be_v guilty_a of_o this_o fault_n if_o not_o then_o there_o be_v no_o such_o necessity_n that_o of_o two_o disagree_v about_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n one_o shall_v deny_v god_n truth_n sufficient_o propound_v and_o so_o the_o major_a and_o minor_a of_o your_o argument_n be_v prove_v false_a yet_o though_o they_o be_v as_o true_a as_o gospel_n and_o as_o evident_a as_o mathematical_a principle_n the_o conclusion_n so_o impertinent_a be_v it_o to_o the_o premise_n may_v still_o be_v false_a for_o that_o which_o natural_o issue_v from_o these_o proposition_n be_v not_o therefore_o one_o only_o can_v be_v save_v but_o therefore_o one_o of_o they_o do_v something_o that_o be_v damnable_a but_o with_o what_o logic_n or_o what_o charity_n you_o can_v infer_v either_o as_o the_o immediate_a production_n of_o the_o former_a premise_n or_o as_o a_o corollary_n from_o this_o conclusion_n therefore_o one_o only_o can_v be_v save_v i_o do_v not_o understand_v unless_o you_o will_v pretend_v that_o this_o consequence_n be_v good_a such_o a_o one_o do_v something_o damnable_a therefore_o he_o shall_v certain_o be_v damn_v which_o whether_o it_o be_v not_o to_o overthrow_v the_o article_n of_o our_o faith_n which_o promise_v remission_n of_o sin_n upon_o repentance_n and_o consequent_o to_o ruin_v the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o the_o cardinal_n to_o determine_v for_o if_o against_o this_o it_o be_v allege_v that_o no_o man_n can_v repent_v of_o the_o sin_n wherein_o he_o die_v this_o muce_n i_o have_v already_o stop_v by_o show_v that_o if_o it_o be_v a_o sin_n of_o ignorance_n this_o be_v no_o way_n incongruous_a 13._o ad_fw-la 6._o §_o in_o your_o six_o parag._n i_o let_v all_o pass_v save_v only_o this_o that_o a_o persuasion_n that_o man_n of_o different_a religion_n you_o must_v mean_n christian_n of_o different_a opinion_n or_o communion_n may_v be_v save_v be_v a_o most_o pernicious_a heresy_n and_o even_o a_o ground_n of_o atheism_n what_o strange_a extraction_n chemistry_n can_v make_v i_o know_v not_o but_o sure_o i_o be_o he_o that_o by_o reason_n will_v infer_v this_o conclusion_n that_o there_o be_v no_o god_n from_o this_o ground_n that_o god_n will_v save_v man_n in_o different_a religion_n must_v have_v a_o high_a strain_n of_o logic_n than_o you_o or_o i_o have_v hitherto_o make_v show_v of_o in_o my_o apprehension_n the_o other_o part_n of_o the_o contradiction_n that_o there_o be_v a_o god_n shall_v much_o rather_o follow_v from_o it_o and_o i_o say_v and_o will_v maintain_v that_o to_o say_v that_o christian_n of_o different_a opinion_n and_o communion_n such_o i_o mean_v who_o hold_v all_o those_o thing_n that_o be_v simple_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n may_v not_o obtain_v pardon_n for_o the_o error_n wherein_o they_o die_v ignorant_o by_o a_o general_a repentance_n be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v a_o ground_n of_o atheism_n that_o to_o say_v the_o contrary_a be_v to_o cross_v in_o diameter_n a_o main_a article_n of_o our_o creed_n and_o to_o overthrow_v the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n 14._o ad_fw-la 7._o §_o to_o what_o you_o say_v of_o some_o protestant_n that_o hold_v it_o necessary_a to_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v a_o perpetual_a visible_a church_n distinct_a from_o you_o i_o answer_v some_z perhaps_o undertake_v to_o do_v so_o as_o a_o matter_n of_o courtesy_n but_o i_o believe_v you_o will_v be_v much_o to_o seek_v for_o any_o one_o that_o hold_v it_o necessary_a for_o though_o you_o say_v that_o christ_n have_v promise_v there_o shall_v be_v a_o perpetual_a visible_a church_n yet_o you_o yourselves_o do_v not_o pretend_v that_o he_o have_v promise_v there_o shall_v be_v history_n and_o record_n always_o extant_a of_o the_o professor_n of_o it_o in_o all_o age_n nor_o that_o he_o have_v any_o where_o enjoin_v we_o to_o read_v those_o history_n that_o we_o may_v be_v able_a to_o show_v they_o 17._o to_o your_o ensue_a demand_n though_o some_o of_o they_o be_v very_o captious_a and_o ensnare_a yet_o i_o will_v give_v you_o as_o clear_v and_o plain_a and_o ingenuous_a answer_n as_o possible_o i_o can_v 18._o ad_fw-la 11._o §_o to_o the_o first_o then_o about_o the_o perpetuity_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n my_o answer_n be_v that_o i_o believe_v our_o saviour_n ever_o since_o his_o ascension_n have_v have_v in_o some_o place_n or_o other_o a_o visible_a true_a church_n on_o earth_n i_o mean_v a_o company_n of_o man_n that_o profess_v at_o least_o so_o much_o truth_n as_o be_v absolute_o necessary_a for_o their_o salvation_n and_o i_o believe_v that_o there_o will_v be_v somewhere_o or_o other_o such_o a_o church_n to_o the_o world_n end_n but_o the_o contrary_a doctrine_n i_o do_v at_o no_o hand_n believe_v to_o be_v a_o damnable_a heresy_n 19_o ad_fw-la 12._o §_o to_o the_o second_o what_o visible_a church_n there_o be_v before_o luther_n disagree_v from_o the_o roman_a i_o answer_v that_o before_o luther_n there_o be_v many_o visible_a church_n in_o many_o thing_n disagree_v from_o the_o roman_a but_o not_o that_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n disagree_v from_o she_o because_o she_o herself_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o whole_a though_o much_o corrupt_v and_o to_o undertake_v to_o name_v a_o catholic_n church_n disagree_v from_o she_o be_v to_o make_v she_o no_o part_n of_o it_o which_o we_o do_v not_o nor_o need_v not_o pretend_v and_o for_o man_n agree_v with_o protestant_n in_o all_o point_n we_o will_v then_o produce_v they_o when_o you_o shall_v either_o prove_v it_o necessary_a to_o be_v do_v which_o you_o know_v we_o absolute_o deny_v or_o when_o you_o shall_v produce_v a_o perpetual_a succession_n of_o professor_n which_o in_o all_o point_n have_v agree_v with_o you_o and_o disagree_v from_o you_o in_o nothing_o but_o this_o my_o promise_n to_o deal_v plain_o with_o you_o i_o conceive_v and_o so_o intend_v it_o to_o be_v very_o like_o he_o who_o undertake_v to_o drink_v up_o the_o sea_n upon_o condition_n that_o he_o to_o who_o the_o promise_n be_v make_v shall_v first_o stop_v the_o river_n from_o run_v in_o for_o this_o unreasonable_a request_n which_o you_o make_v to_o we_o be_v to_o yourselves_o so_o impossible_a that_o in_o the_o very_a next_o age_n after_o the_o apostle_n you_o will_v never_o be_v able_a to_o name_v a_o man_n who_o you_o can_v prove_v to_o have_v agree_v with_o you_o in_o all_o thing_n nay_o if_o you_o speak_v of_o such_o who_o work_n be_v extant_a and_o unquestioned_a who_o we_o can_v prove_v
authority_n of_o universal_a tradition_n that_o we_o will_v have_v they_o believe_v scripture_n but_o then_o as_o for_o the_o authority_n which_o you_o will_v have_v they_o follow_v you_o will_v let_v they_o see_v reason_n why_o they_o shall_v follow_v it_o and_o be_v not_o this_o to_o go_v a_o little_a about_o to_o leave_v reason_n for_o a_o short_a turn_n and_o then_o to_o come_v to_o it_o again_o and_o to_o do_v that_o which_o you_o condemn_v in_o other_o it_o be_v indeed_o a_o plain_a impossibility_n for_o any_o man_n to_o submit_v his_o reason_n but_o to_o reason_n for_o he_o that_o do_v it_o to_o authority_n must_v of_o necessity_n think_v himself_o to_o have_v great_a reason_n to_o believe_v that_o authority_n therefore_o the_o confession_n cite_v by_o brere_o you_o need_v not_o think_v to_o have_v be_v extort_a from_o luther_n and_o the_o rest_n it_o come_v very_o free_o from_o they_o and_o what_o they_o say_v you_o practise_v as_o much_o as_o they_o 115._o and_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o a_o protestant_n admit_v of_o father_n council_n church_n as_o far_o as_o they_o agree_v with_o scripture_n which_o upon_o the_o matter_n be_v himself_o i_o say_v you_o admit_v neither_o of_o they_o nor_o the_o scripture_n itself_o but_o only_o so_o far_o as_o it_o agree_v with_o your_o church_n and_o your_o church_n you_o admit_v because_o you_o think_v you_o have_v reason_n to_o do_v so_o so_o that_o by_o you_o as_o well_o as_o by_o protestant_n all_n be_v final_o resolve_v into_o your_o own_o reason_n 116._o nor_o do_v heretic_n only_o but_o romish_a catholic_n also_o set_v up_o as_o many_o judge_n as_o there_o be_v man_n and_o woman_n in_o the_o christian_a world_n for_o do_v not_o your_o man_n and_o woman_n judge_v your_o religion_n to_o be_v true_a before_o they_o believe_v it_o as_o well_o as_o the_o man_n and_o woman_n of_o other_o religion_n oh_o but_o you_o say_v they_o receive_v it_o not_o because_o they_o think_v it_o agreeable_a to_o scripture_n but_o because_o the_o church_n tell_v they_o so_o but_o then_o i_o hope_v they_o believe_v the_o church_n because_o their_o own_o reason_n tell_v they_o they_o be_v to_o do_v so_o so_o that_o the_o difference_n between_o a_o papist_n and_o a_o protestant_n be_v this_o not_o that_o the_o one_o judge_n and_o the_o other_o do_v not_o judge_n but_o that_o the_o one_o judge_n his_o guide_n to_o be_v infallible_a the_o other_o his_o way_n to_o be_v manifest_a this_o same_o pernicious_a doctrine_n be_v teach_v by_o brentius_n zanchius_n cartwright_n and_o other_o it_o be_v so_o in_o very_a deed_n but_o it_o be_v teach_v also_o by_o some_o other_o who_o you_o little_o think_v of_o it_o be_v teach_v by_o s._n paul_n where_o he_o say_v try_v all_o thing_n hold_v fast_o that_o which_o be_v good_a it_o be_v teach_v by_o s._n john_n in_o these_o word_n believe_v not_o every_o spirit_n but_o try_v the_o spirit_n whether_o they_o be_v of_o god_n or_o no._n it_o be_v teach_v by_o s._n peter_n in_o these_o be_v you_o ready_a to_o render_v a_o reason_n of_o the_o hope_n that_o be_v in_o you_o last_o this_o very_a pernicious_a doctrine_n be_v teach_v by_o our_o saviour_n in_o these_o word_n if_o the_o blind_a lead_n the_o blind_a both_o shall_v fall_v into_o the_o ditch_n and_o why_o of_o yourselves_o judge_v you_o not_o what_o be_v right_a all_o which_o speech_n if_o they_o do_v not_o advise_v man_n to_o make_v use_n of_o their_o reason_n for_o the_o choice_n of_o their_o religion_n i_o must_v confess_v myself_o to_o understand_v nothing_o last_o not_o to_o be_v infinite_a it_o be_v teach_v by_o m._n knot_n himself_o not_o in_o one_o page_n only_o or_o chapter_n of_o his_o book_n but_o all_o his_o book_n over_o the_o very_a writing_n and_o publish_v whereof_o suppose_v this_o for_o certain_a that_o the_o reader_n be_v to_o be_v judge_n whether_o his_o reason_n which_o he_o bring_v be_v strong_a and_o convince_a of_o which_o sort_n we_o have_v hitherto_o meet_v with_o none_o or_o else_o 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to_o support_v the_o foundation_n will_v not_o campian_n have_v cry_v out_o at_o it_o ecce_fw-la quos_fw-la gyros_fw-la quos_fw-la maeandros_fw-la and_o to_o what_o end_n be_v this_o go_v about_o when_o you_o may_v as_o well_o at_o first_o have_v conclude_v the_o church_n infallible_a because_o she_o say_v so_o as_o thus_o to_o put_v in_o scripture_n for_o a_o mere_a stale_n and_o to_o say_v the_o church_n be_v infallible_a because_o the_o scripture_n say_v so_o and_o the_o scripture_n mean_v so_o because_o the_o church_n say_v so_o which_o be_v infallible_a be_v it_o not_o most_o evident_a therefore_o to_o every_o intelligent_a man_n that_o you_o be_v enforce_v of_o necessity_n to_o do_v that_o yourself_o which_o so_o tragical_o you_o declaim_v against_o in_o other_o the_o
in_o particular_a admonish_v that_o for_o so_o small_a a_o cause_n propter_fw-la tam_fw-la modicam_fw-la causam_fw-la he_o shall_v not_o have_v cut_v off_o so_o many_o province_n from_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n and_o last_o see_v the_o eccesiastical_a story_n of_o those_o time_n mention_n not_o other_o notable_a example_n of_o any_o such_o schismatical_a presumption_n but_o this_o of_o victor_n certain_o we_o have_v great_a inducement_n to_o imagine_v that_o irenaeus_n in_o this_o place_n by_o you_o quote_v have_v a_o special_a aim_n at_o the_o bishop_n and_o church_n of_o rome_n once_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a of_o that_o the_o place_n fit_v he_o and_o many_o of_o his_o successor_n as_o well_o as_o if_o it_o have_v be_v make_v purposely_o for_o they_o and_o this_o also_o that_o he_o which_o find_v fault_n with_o they_o who_o separate_v upon_o small_a cause_n imply_v clear_o that_o he_o conceive_v their_o might_n be_v such_o cause_n as_o be_v great_a and_o sufficient_a and_o that_o then_o a_o reformation_n be_v to_o be_v make_v notwithstanding_o any_o danger_n of_o division_n that_o may_v ensue_v upon_o it_o 12._o last_o s._n denis_n of_o alexandria_n say_v indeed_o and_o very_o well_o that_o all_o thing_n shall_v be_v rather_o endure_v than_o we_o shall_v consent_v to_o the_o division_n of_o the_o church_n i_o will_v add_v rather_o than_o consent_v to_o the_o continuation_n of_o the_o division_n if_o it_o may_v be_v remedy_v but_o then_o i_o be_o to_o tell_v you_o that_o he_o say_v not_o all_o thing_n shall_v rather_o be_v do_v but_o only_o all_o thing_n shall_v rather_o be_v endure_v or_o suffer_v wherein_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o the_o evil_a of_o sin_n but_o of_o pain_n and_o misery_n not_o of_o tolerate_v either_o error_n or_o sin_n in_o other_o though_o that_o may_v be_v lawful_a much_o less_o of_o join_v with_o other_o for_o quietness_n sake_n which_o only_o be_v to_o your_o purpose_n in_o the_o profession_n of_o error_n and_o practice_n of_o sin_n but_o of_o suffer_v any_o affliction_n nay_o even_o martyrdom_n in_o our_o own_o person_n rather_o than_o consent_v to_o the_o division_n of_o the_o church_n omnia_fw-la incommoda_fw-la so_o your_o own_o christophorson_n enforce_v by_o the_o circumstance_n of_o the_o place_n translate_v dionysius_n his_o word_n all_o misery_n shall_v rather_o be_v endure_v than_o we_o shall_v consent_v to_o the_o church_n division_n 13._o ad_fw-la §_o 9_o in_o this_o paragraph_n you_o tell_v we_o first_o that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o total_a deficiency_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n maintain_v by_o many_o chief_a protestant_n imply_v in_o it_o vast_a absurdity_n or_o rather_o sacrilegious_a blasphemy_n answ_n but_o neither_o do_v the_o protestant_n allege_v by_o you_o maintain_v the_o deficiency_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o only_o of_o the_o church_n visibility_n or_o of_o the_o church_n as_o it_o be_v visible_a neither_o do_v they_o hold_v that_o the_o visible_a church_n have_v fail_v total_o from_o its_o essence_n but_o only_o from_o its_o purity_n and_o that_o it_o fall_v into_o many_o corruption_n but_o yet_o not_o to_o nothing_o you_o say_v second_o that_o the_o reason_n which_o cast_v they_o upon_o this_o wicked_a doctrine_n be_v a_o desperate_a voluntary_a necessity_n because_o they_o be_v resolve_v not_o to_o acknowledge_v the_o roman_a to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n and_o be_v convince_v by_o all_o manner_n of_o evidence_n that_o for_o diverse_a age_n before_o luther_n there_o be_v no_o other_o but_o this_o be_v not_o to_o dispute_v but_o to_o divine_a and_o take_v upon_o you_o the_o property_n of_o god_n which_o be_v to_o know_v the_o heart_n of_o men._n for_o why_o i_o pray_v may_v not_o the_o reason_n hereof_o rather_o be_v because_o they_o be_v convince_v by_o all_o manner_n of_o evidence_n as_o scripture_n reason_n antiquity_n that_o all_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o the_o world_n but_o above_o all_o the_o roman_a have_v degenerate_v from_o the_o purity_n of_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n and_o thereupon_o do_v conclude_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n mean_v by_o no_o church_n none_o free_a from_o corruption_n and_o conformable_a in_o all_o thing_n to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n 14._o ad_fw-la §_o 10._o neither_o be_v there_o any_o repugnance_n but_o in_o word_n only_o between_o these_o as_o you_o be_v please_v to_o style_v they_o exterminate_v spirit_n and_o those_o other_o who_o out_o of_o courtesy_n you_o entitle_v in_o your_o 10._o §_o more_o moderate_a protestant_n for_o these_o affirm_v the_o perpetual_a visibility_n of_o the_o church_n yet_o neither_o deny_v nor_o doubt_n of_o she_o be_v subject_a to_o manifold_a and_o grievous_a corruption_n and_o those_o of_o such_o a_o nature_n as_o be_v they_o not_o mitigate_v by_o invincible_a or_o at_o least_o a_o very_a probable_a ignorance_n none_o subject_a to_o they_o can_v be_v save_v and_o they_o on_o the_o other_o side_n deny_v the_o church_n visibility_n yet_o plain_o affirm_v that_o they_o conceive_v very_o good_a hope_n of_o the_o salvation_n of_o many_o of_o their_o ignorant_a and_o honest_a forefather_n thus_o declare_v plain_o though_o in_o word_n they_o deny_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o true_a church_n yet_o their_o meaning_n be_v not_o to_o deny_v the_o perpetuity_n but_o the_o perpetual_a purity_n and_o incorruption_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n 17._o ad_fw-la §_o 11._o you_o ask_v to_o what_o congregation_n shall_v a_o man_n have_v recourse_n for_o the_o affair_n of_o his_o soul_n if_o upon_o earth_n there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n answ_n if_o some_o one_o christian_a live_v alone_o among_o pagan_n in_o some_o country_n remote_a from_o christendom_n shall_v we_o conceive_v it_o impossible_a for_o this_o man_n to_o be_v save_v because_o he_o can_v have_v recourse_n to_o any_o congregation_n for_o the_o affair_n of_o his_o soul_n will_v it_o not_o be_v sufficient_a for_o such_o a_o one_o salvation_n to_o know_v the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n and_o live_v according_a to_o it_o 18._o obj._n to_o imagine_v a_o company_n of_o man_n believe_v one_o thing_n in_o their_o heart_n and_o with_o their_o mouth_n profess_v the_o contrary_n as_o they_o must_v be_v suppose_v to_o do_v for_o if_o they_o have_v profess_v what_o they_o believe_v they_o will_v have_v become_v visible_a be_v to_o dream_v of_o a_o damn_a crew_n of_o dissemble_a sycophant_n but_o not_o to_o conceive_v aright_o of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n answ_n what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n may_v not_o the_o church_n be_v invisible_a and_o yet_o these_o that_o be_v of_o it_o profess_v their_o faith_n no_o say_v you_o their_o profession_n will_v make_v they_o visible_a very_o true_a visible_a in_o the_o place_n where_o and_o in_o the_o time_n when_o they_o live_v and_o to_o those_o person_n unto_o who_o they_o have_v necessary_a occasion_n to_o make_v their_o profession_n but_o not_o visible_a to_o all_o or_o any_o great_a or_o considerable_a part_n of_o the_o world_n while_o they_o live_v much_o less_o conspicuous_a to_o all_o age_n after_o they_o now_o it_o be_v a_o church_n thus_o illustrious_o and_o conspicuous_o visible_a that_o you_o require_v by_o who_o splendour_n all_o man_n may_v be_v direct_v and_o draw_v to_o repair_v to_o she_o for_o the_o affair_n of_o their_o soul_n neither_o be_v it_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n absolute_o but_o this_o degree_n of_o it_o which_o the_o most_o rigid_a protestant_n deny_v which_o be_v plain_a enough_o out_o of_o the_o place_n of_o napper_n cite_v by_o you_o in_o your_o 9_o part._n of_o this_o chap_a where_o his_o word_n be_v god_n have_v withdraw_v his_o visible_a church_n from_o open_a assembly_n to_o the_o heart_n of_o particular_a godly_a man_n and_o this_o church_n which_o have_v not_o open_a assembly_n he_o call_v the_o latent_fw-la and_o invisible_a church_n now_o i_o hope_v papist_n in_o england_n will_v be_v very_o apt_a to_o grant_v man_n may_v be_v so_o far_a latent_fw-la and_o invisible_a as_o not_o to_o profess_v their_o faith_n in_o open_a assembly_n nor_o to_o proclaim_v it_o to_o all_o the_o world_n and_o yet_o not_o deny_v nor_o dissemble_v it_o nor_o deserve_v to_o be_v esteem_v a_o damn_a crew_n of_o dissemble_a sycophant_n obj._n but_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n can_v but_o make_v a_o church_n visible_a and_o these_o be_v inseparable_a note_n of_o the_o church_n i_o answer_v they_o be_v so_o far_o inseparable_a that_o wheresoever_o they_o be_v there_o a_o church_n be_v but_o not_o so_o but_o that_o in_o some_o case_n there_o may_v be_v a_o church_n where_o these_o note_n be_v not_o again_o these_o note_n will_v make_v the_o church_n visible_a but_o to_o who_o certain_o not_o to_o all_o man_n nor_o to_o most_o man_n but_o to_o they_o only_o to_o who_o
church_n to_o communicate_v in_o her_o corruption_n or_o you_o suppose_v her_o communion_n uncorrupted_a if_o the_o former_a and_o yet_o will_v take_v for_o grant_v that_o all_o be_v schismatic_n that_o leave_v her_o communion_n though_o it_o be_v corrupt_v you_o beg_v the_o question_n in_o your_o proposition_n if_o the_o latter_a you_o beg_v the_o question_n in_o your_o supposition_n for_o protestant_n you_o know_v be_v peremptory_a and_o unanimous_a in_o the_o denial_n of_o both_o these_o thing_n both_o that_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v then_o uncorrupted_a and_o that_o they_o be_v true_o schismatic_n who_o leave_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n if_o corrupt_v especial_o if_o the_o case_n be_v so_o and_o luther_n be_v so_o that_o they_o must_v either_o leave_v her_o communion_n or_o of_o necessity_n communicate_v with_o she_o in_o her_o corruption_n 26._o beside_o although_o it_o be_v grant_v schism_n to_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o what_o state_n or_o case_n so_o ever_o it_o be_v and_o that_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n be_v schismatic_n for_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o all_o visible_a church_n yet_o you_o fail_v exceed_o of_o clear_v the_o other_o necessary_a point_n undertake_v by_o you_o that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v then_o the_o visible_a church_n for_o neither_o do_v protestant_n as_o you_o mistake_v make_v the_o true_a preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o due_a administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n the_o note_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o only_o of_o a_o visible_a church_n now_o these_o you_o know_v be_v very_o different_a thing_n the_o former_a signify_v the_o church_n catholic_n or_o the_o whole_a church_n the_o latter_a a_o particular_a church_n or_o a_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n and_o therefore_o suppose_v out_o of_o courtesy_n we_o shall_v grant_v what_o by_o argument_n you_o can_v never_o evince_v that_o your_o church_n have_v these_o note_n yet_o will_v it_o by_o no_o mean_n follow_v that_o your_o church_n be_v the_o visible_a church_n but_o only_o a_o visible_a church_n not_o the_o whole_a catholic_n but_o only_o a_o part_n of_o it_o 27._o last_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o protestant_n must_v either_o grant_v that_o your_o church_n then_o be_v the_o visible_a church_n or_o name_v some_o other_o disagree_v from_o you_o and_o agree_v with_o protestant_n in_o their_o particular_a doctrine_n or_o acknowledge_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n it_o be_v all_o one_o as_o if_o to_o use_v s._n paul_n similitude_n the_o head_n shall_v say_v to_o the_o foot_n either_o you_o must_v grant_v that_o i_o be_o the_o whole_a body_n or_o name_v some_o other_o member_n that_o be_v so_o or_o confess_v that_o there_o be_v no_o body_n to_o which_o the_o foot_n may_v answer_v i_o acknowledge_v there_o be_v a_o body_n and_o yet_o that_o no_o member_n beside_o you_o be_v this_o body_n nor_o yet_o that_o you_o be_v it_o but_o only_o a_o part_n of_o it_o and_o in_o like_a manner_n say_v we_o we_o acknowledge_v a_o church_n there_o be_v corrupt_v indeed_o universal_o but_o yet_o such_o a_o one_o as_o we_o hope_v by_o god_n gracious_a acceptance_n be_v still_o a_o church_n we_o pretend_v not_o to_o name_v any_o one_o society_n that_o be_v this_o church_n and_o yet_o we_o see_v no_o reason_n that_o can_v enforce_v we_o to_o confess_v that_o you_o be_v the_o church_n but_o only_o a_o part_n of_o it_o and_o that_o one_o of_o the_o worst_a then_o extant_a in_o the_o world_n in_o vain_a therefore_o have_v you_o trouble_v yourself_o in_o prove_v that_o we_o can_v pretend_v that_o either_o the_o greek_n waldenses_n wickliffite_n hussites_n muscovite_n armenians_n georgians_n abyssine_n be_v then_o the_o visible_a church_n for_o all_o this_o discourse_n proceed_v from_o a_o false_a &_o vain_a supposition_n and_o beg_v another_o point_n in_o question_n between_o we_o which_o be_v that_o some_o church_n of_o one_o denomination_n and_o one_o communion_n as_o the_o roman_a the_o greek_a etc._n etc._n must_v be_v always_o exclusive_o to_o all_o other_o communion_n the_o whole_a visible_a church_n and_o though_o perhaps_o some_o weak_a protestant_n have_v this_o false_a principle_n settle_v in_o he_o that_o there_o be_v to_o be_v always_o some_o visible_a church_n of_o one_o denomination_n pure_a from_o all_o error_n in_o doctrine_n may_v be_v wrought_v upon_o and_o prevail_v with_o by_o it_o to_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o protestant_n yet_o why_o it_o shall_v induce_v he_o to_o go_v to_o you_o rather_o than_o the_o greek_a church_n or_o any_o other_o which_o pretend_v to_o perpetual_a succession_n as_o well_o as_o you_o that_o i_o do_v not_o understand_v unless_o it_o be_v for_o the_o reason_n which_o aeneas_n silvius_n give_v why_o more_o hold_v the_o pope_n above_o a_o council_n than_o a_o council_n above_o the_o pope_n which_o be_v because_o pope_n do_v give_v bishopric_n and_o archbishopric_n but_o council_n give_v none_o and_o therefore_o sue_v in_o forma_fw-la pauperis_fw-la be_v not_o like_a to_o have_v their_o cause_n very_o well_o maintain_v for_o put_v the_o case_n i_o shall_v grant_v of_o mere_a favour_n that_o there_o must_v be_v always_o some_o church_n of_o one_o denomination_n and_o communion_n free_a from_o all_o error_n in_o doctrine_n and_o that_o protestant_n have_v not_o always_o such_o a_o church_n it_o will_v follow_v indeed_o from_o thence_o that_o i_o must_v not_o be_v a_o protestant_n but_o that_o i_o must_v be_v a_o papist_n certain_o it_o will_v follow_v by_o no_o better_a consequence_n than_o this_o if_o you_o will_v leave_v england_n you_o must_v of_o necessity_n go_v to_o rome_n and_o yet_o with_o this_o wretched_a fallacy_n have_v i_o be_v sometime_o abuse_v myself_o and_o know_v many_o other_o poor_a soul_n seduce_v not_o only_o from_o their_o own_o church_n and_o religion_n but_o unto_o you_o i_o beseech_v god_n to_o open_v the_o eye_n of_o all_o that_o love_v the_o truth_n that_o they_o may_v not_o always_o be_v hold_v captive_a under_o such_o miserable_a delusion_n 28._o let_v we_o come_v now_o to_o the_o argument_n which_o you_o build_v upon_o d._n potter_n own_o word_n out_o of_o which_o you_o promise_v unanswerable_a reason_n to_o convince_v protestant_n of_o schism_n 29._o but_o these_o reason_n will_v easy_o be_v answer_v if_o the_o reader_n will_v take_v along_o with_o he_o these_o three_o short_a memorandum_n 30._o first_o that_o not_o every_o separation_n but_o only_o a_o causeless_a separation_n from_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o any_o church_n be_v the_o sin_n of_o schism_n 31._o second_o that_o impose_v upon_o man_n under_o pain_n of_o excommunication_n a_o necessity_n of_o profess_v know_v error_n and_o practise_v know_v corruption_n be_v a_o sufficient_a and_o necessary_a cause_n of_o separation_n and_o that_o this_o be_v the_o cause_n the_o protestant_n allege_v to_o justify_v their_o separation_n from_o which_o church_n of_o rome_n 32._o three_o that_o to_o leave_v the_o church_n and_o to_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o a_o church_n be_v not_o the_o same_o thing_n that_o be_v do_v by_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o member_n of_o it_o by_o cease_v to_o have_v those_o requisite_n which_o constitute_v a_o man_n a_o member_n of_o it_o as_o faith_n and_o obedience_n this_o by_o refuse_v to_o communicate_v with_o any_o church_n in_o her_o liturgy_n and_o public_a worship_n of_o god_n this_o armour_n if_o it_o be_v right_o place_v will_v repel_v all_o those_o battery_n which_o you_o threaten_v we_o with_o all_o 33._o ad_fw-la §_o 13.14_o 15._o the_o first_o be_v a_o sentence_n of_o s._n austin_n against_o donatus_n apply_v to_o luther_n thus_o if_o the_o church_n perish_v what_o church_n bring_v forth_o donatus_n you_o say_v luther_n if_o she_o can_v not_o perish_v what_o madness_n move_v the_o sect_n of_o donatus_n to_o separate_v upon_o pretence_n to_o avoid_v the_o communion_n of_o bad_a man_n whereunto_o one_o fair_a answer_n to_o let_v pass_v many_o other_o be_v obvious_a out_o of_o the_o second_o observation_n that_o this_o sentence_n though_o it_o be_v gospel_n as_o it_o be_v not_o be_v impertinent_o apply_v to_o luther_n and_o lutheran_n who_o pretence_n of_o separation_n be_v it_o true_a or_o be_v it_o false_a be_v not_o as_o that_o of_o the_o donatist_n only_o to_o avoid_v the_o communion_n of_o bad_a man_n but_o to_o free_v themselves_o from_o a_o necessity_n which_o but_o by_o separate_n be_v unavoidable_a of_o join_v with_o bad_a man_n in_o their_o impiety_n 34._o ad_fw-la §_o 16._o your_o second_o onset_n drive_v only_o at_o those_o protestant_n who_o hold_v the_o true_a church_n be_v invisible_a for_o many_o age_n which_o doctrine_n if_o by_o the_o true_a church_n be_v understand_v the_o pure_a church_n as_o you_o do_v understand_v it_o be_v a_o certain_a truth_n &_o it_o
as_o because_o you_o impose_v they_o and_o will_v allow_v your_o communion_n to_o none_o but_o to_o those_o that_o will_v hold_v they_o with_o you_o and_o have_v so_o order_v your_o communion_n that_o either_o we_o must_v communicate_v with_o you_o in_o these_o thing_n or_o nothing_o and_o for_o this_o very_a reason_n though_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o these_o protestant_n hold_v this_o doctrine_n which_o you_o impute_v to_o they_o and_o though_o this_o error_n be_v as_o damnable_a and_o as_o much_o against_o the_o creed_n as_o you_o pretend_v yet_o after_o all_o this_o this_o disparity_n between_o you_o and_o they_o may_v make_v it_o more_o lawful_a for_o we_o to_o communicate_v with_o they_o than_o you_o because_o what_o they_o hold_v they_o hold_v to_o themselves_o and_o refuse_v not_o as_o you_o do_v to_o communicate_v with_o they_o that_o hold_v the_o contrary_n 41._o thus_o we_o may_v answer_v your_o argument_n though_o both_o your_o former_a supposition_n be_v grant_v but_o then_o for_o a_o second_o answer_n i_o be_o to_o tell_v you_o that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o grant_v either_o of_o they_o for_o neither_o do_v these_o protestant_n hold_v the_o fail_n of_o the_o church_n from_o its_o be_v but_o only_o from_o its_o visibility_n which_o if_o you_o conceive_v all_o one_o then_o must_v you_o conceive_v that_o the_o star_n fail_v every_o day_n and_o the_o sun_n every_o night_n neither_o be_v it_o certain_a that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n fail_v be_v repugnant_a to_o the_o creed_n for_o as_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o article_n of_o the_o remission_n of_o sin_n depend_v not_o upon_o the_o actual_a remission_n of_o any_o man_n sin_n but_o upon_o god_n readiness_n and_o resolution_n to_o forgive_v the_o sin_n of_o all_o that_o believe_v and_o repent_v so_o that_o although_o unbelief_n or_o impenitence_n shall_v be_v universal_a and_o the_o faithful_a shall_v absolute_o fail_v from_o the_o child_n of_o man_n and_o the_o son_n of_o man_n shall_v find_v no_o faith_n on_o the_o earth_n yet_o shall_v the_o article_n still_o continue_v true_a that_o god_n will_v forgive_v the_o sin_n of_o all_o that_o repent_v in_o like_a manner_n it_o be_v not_o certain_a that_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o article_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n depend_v upon_o the_o actual_a existence_n of_o a_o catholic_n church_n but_o rather_o upon_o the_o right_n that_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n or_o rather_o to_o speak_v proper_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n have_v to_o be_v universal_o believe_v and_o therefore_o the_o article_n may_v be_v true_a though_o there_o be_v no_o church_n in_o the_o world_n in_o regard_n this_o notwithstanding_o it_o remain_v still_o true_a that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v a_o church_n and_o this_o church_n ought_v to_o be_v catholic_n for_o as_o of_o these_o two_o proposition_n there_o be_v a_o church_n in_o america_n and_o there_o shall_v be_v a_o church_n in_o america_n the_o truth_n of_o the_o latter_a depend_v not_o upon_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o former_a so_o neither_o do_v it_o in_o these_o two_o there_o be_v a_o church_n diffuse_v all_o the_o world_n over_o and_z there_o shall_v be_v a_o church_n diffuse_v all_o the_o world_n over_o 44._o ad_fw-la §_o 17._o the_o next_o section_n in_o three_o long_a leaf_n deliver_v we_o this_o short_a sense_n that_o those_o protestant_n which_o say_n they_o have_v not_o leave_v the_o church_n external_a communion_n but_o only_o her_o corruption_n pretend_v to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v impossible_a because_o these_o corruption_n be_v inherent_a in_o the_o church_n external_a communion_n and_o therefore_o he_o that_o forsake_v they_o not_o but_o forsake_v this_o 45._o ans_fw-fr but_o who_o be_v they_o that_o pretend_v they_o forsake_v the_o church_n corruption_n and_o not_o her_o external_a communion_n some_o there_o be_v that_o say_v they_o have_v not_o leave_v the_o church_n that_o be_v not_o cease_v to_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n but_o only_o leave_v her_o corruption_n some_o that_o they_o have_v not_o leave_v the_o communion_n but_o the_o corruption_n of_o it_o mean_v the_o internal_a communion_n of_o it_o and_o conjunction_n with_o it_o by_o faith_n and_o obedience_n which_o disagree_v from_o the_o former_a only_o in_o the_o manner_n of_o speak_v for_o he_o that_o be_v in_o the_o church_n be_v in_o this_o kind_n of_o communion_n with_o it_o and_o he_o that_o be_v not_o in_o this_o internal_a communion_n be_v not_o in_o the_o church_n some_o perhaps_o that_o they_o leave_v not_o your_o external_a communion_n in_o all_o thing_n meaning_n that_o they_o leave_v it_o not_o voluntary_o be_v not_o fugitivi_fw-la but_o fugati_fw-la perron_n casaubon_n in_o ep._n ad_fw-la card._n perron_n as_o be_v willing_a to_o join_v with_o you_o in_o any_o act_n of_o piety_n but_o be_v by_o you_o necessitate_v &_o constrain_v to_o do_v so_o because_o you_o will_v not_o suffer_v they_o to_o do_v well_o with_o you_o unless_o they_o will_v do_v ill_a with_o you_o now_o to_o do_v ill_o that_o you_o may_v do_v well_o be_v against_o the_o will_n of_o god_n which_o to_o every_o good_a man_n be_v a_o high_a degree_n of_o necessity_n but_o for_o such_o protestant_n as_o pretend_v that_o de_fw-fr facto_fw-la they_o forsake_v your_o corruption_n only_o and_o not_o your_o external_a communion_n that_o be_v such_o as_o pretend_v to_o communicate_v with_o you_o in_o your_o confession_n and_o liturgy_n and_o participation_n of_o sacrament_n i_o can_v but_o doubt_v very_o much_o that_o neither_o you_o nor_o i_o have_v ever_o meet_v with_o any_o of_o this_o condition_n and_o if_o perhaps_o you_o be_v lead_v into_o error_n by_o think_v that_o to_o leave_v the_o church_n and_o to_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o it_o be_v all_o one_o in_o sense_n and_o signification_n i_o hope_v by_o this_o time_n you_o be_v disabused_a and_o begin_v to_o understand_v that_o as_o a_o man_n may_v leave_v any_o fashion_n or_o custom_n of_o a_o college_n and_o yet_o remain_v still_o a_o member_n of_o the_o college_n so_o a_o man_n may_v possible_o leave_v some_o opinion_n or_o practice_n of_o a_o church_n former_o common_a to_o himself_o and_o other_o and_o continue_v still_o a_o member_n of_o that_o church_n provide_v that_o what_o he_o forsake_v be_v not_o one_o of_o those_o thing_n wherein_o the_o essence_n of_o the_o church_n consist_v whereas_o peradventure_o this_o practice_n may_v be_v so_o involve_v with_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o this_o church_n that_o it_o may_v be_v simple_o impossible_a for_o he_o to_o leave_v this_o practice_n and_o not_o to_o leave_v the_o church_n external_a communion_n 46._o you_o will_v reply_v perhaps_o that_o the_o difficulty_n lie_v as_o well_o against_o those_o who_o pretend_v to_o forsake_v the_o church_n corruption_n and_o not_o the_o church_n as_o against_o those_o who_o say_v they_o forsake_v the_o church_n corruption_n and_o not_o her_o external_a communion_n and_o that_o the_o reason_n be_v still_o the_o same_o because_o these_o suppose_a corruption_n be_v inherent_a in_o the_o whole_a church_n and_o therefore_o by_o like_a reason_n with_o the_o former_a can_v not_o be_v forsake_v but_o if_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v forsake_v 47._o ans_fw-fr a_o pretty_a sophism_n and_o very_o fit_a to_o persuade_v man_n that_o it_o be_v impossible_a for_o they_o to_o forsake_v any_o error_n they_o hold_v or_o any_o vice_n they_o be_v subject_a to_o either_o peculiar_a to_o themselves_o or_o in_o common_a with_o other_o because_o forsooth_o they_o can_v forsake_v themselves_o and_o vice_n and_o error_n be_v thing_n inherent_a in_o themselves_o the_o deceit_n lie_v in_o not_o distinguish_v between_o a_o local_a and_o a_o moral_a forsake_v of_o any_o thing_n for_o as_o it_o be_v a_o absurdity_n fit_a for_o the_o maintainer_n of_o transubstantiation_n to_o defend_v that_o a_o man_n may_v local_o and_o proper_o depart_v from_o the_o accident_n of_o a_o subject_n and_o not_o from_o the_o subject_n itself_o so_o be_v it_o also_o against_o reason_n to_o deny_v that_o a_o man_n may_v by_o a_o usual_a phrase_n of_o speech_n forsake_v any_o custom_n or_o quality_n good_a or_o bad_a either_o proper_a to_o himself_o or_o common_a to_o himself_o with_o any_o company_n and_o yet_o never_o true_o or_o proper_o forsake_v either_o his_o company_n or_o himself_o thus_o if_o all_o the_o jesuit_n in_o the_o society_n be_v give_v to_o write_v sophistical_o yet_o you_o may_v leave_v this_o ill_a custom_n and_o yet_o not_o leave_v your_o society_n if_o all_o the_o citizen_n of_o a_o city_n be_v addict_v to_o any_o vanity_n they_o may_v either_o all_o or_o some_o of_o they_o forsake_v it_o and_o yet_o not_o forsake_v the_o city_n if_o all_o the_o part_n of_o a_o man_n body_n be_v dirty_a or_o filthy_a nothing_o hinder_v but_o that_o all_o or_o some_o of_o they_o may_v
cleanse_v themselves_o and_o yet_o continue_v part_n of_o the_o body_n and_o what_o reason_n then_o in_o the_o world_n be_v there_o if_o the_o whole_a visible_a church_n be_v overcome_v with_o tare_n and_o weed_n of_o superstition_n and_o corruption_n but_o that_o some_o member_n of_o it_o may_v reform_v themselves_o and_o yet_o continue_v still_o true_a member_n of_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n and_o not_o be_v make_v no_o member_n but_o the_o better_a by_o their_o reformation_n 50._o we_o acknowledge_v that_o we_o can_v as_o matter_n now_o stand_v separate_a from_o your_o corruption_n but_o we_o must_v depart_v from_o your_o external_n communion_n for_o you_o have_v so_o order_v thing_n that_o whosoever_o will_v communicate_v with_o you_o at_o all_o must_v communicate_v with_o you_o in_o your_o corruption_n but_o it_o be_v you_o that_o will_v not_o perceive_v the_o difference_n between_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o church_n and_o be_v in_o external_a communion_n with_o all_o the_o other_o part_n of_o it_o take_v for_o grant_v that_o which_o be_v certain_o false_a that_o no_o two_o man_n or_o church_n divide_v in_o external_a communion_n can_v be_v both_o true_a part_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n 51._o we_o be_v not_o to_o learn_v the_o difference_n between_o schism_n and_o heresy_n for_o heresy_n we_o conceive_v a_o obstinate_a defence_n of_o any_o error_n against_o any_o necessary_a article_n of_o the_o christian_a faith_n and_o schism_n a_o causeless_a separation_n of_o one_o part_n of_o the_o church_n from_o another_o but_o this_o we_o say_v that_o if_o we_o convince_v you_o of_o error_n and_o corruption_n profess_a and_o practise_v in_o your_o communion_n than_o we_o can_v be_v schismatic_n for_o refuse_v to_o join_v with_o you_o in_o the_o profession_n of_o these_o error_n and_o the_o practice_n of_o these_o corruption_n and_o therefore_o you_o must_v free_v yourselves_o from_o error_n or_o we_o from_o schism_n 52._o last_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o you_o have_v demonstrate_v against_o we_o that_o protestant_n divide_v themselves_o from_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n add_v which_o external_a communion_n be_v corrupt_v and_o we_o shall_v confess_v the_o accusation_n and_o glory_n in_o it_o but_o this_o be_v not_o that_o quod_fw-la erat_fw-la demonstrandum_fw-la but_o that_o we_o divide_v ourselves_o from_o the_o church_n that_o be_v make_v ourselves_o outlaw_n from_o it_o and_o no_o member_n of_o it_o and_o moreover_o in_o the_o reason_n of_o your_o separation_n from_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o your_o church_n you_o be_v mistake_v for_o it_o be_v not_o so_o much_o because_o she_o your_o church_n as_o because_o your_o church_n external_a communion_n be_v corrupt_v and_o need_v reformation_n 53._o that_o a_o pretence_n of_o reformation_n will_v acquit_v no_o man_n from_o schism_n we_o grant_v very_o willing_o and_o therefore_o say_v that_o it_o concern_v every_o man_n who_o separate_v from_o any_o church_n communion_n even_o as_o much_o as_o his_o salvation_n be_v worth_a to_o look_v most_o careful_o to_o it_o that_o the_o cause_n of_o his_o separation_n be_v just_a and_o necessary_a for_o unless_o it_o be_v necessary_a it_o can_v very_o hardly_o be_v sufficient_a but_o whether_o a_o true_a reformation_n of_o ourselves_o from_o error_n superstition_n and_o impiety_n will_v not_o justify_v our_o separation_n in_o these_o thing_n our_o separation_n i_o say_v from_o they_o who_o will_v not_o reform_v themselves_o and_o as_o much_o as_o in_o they_o lie_v hinder_v other_o from_o do_v so_o this_o be_v the_o point_n you_o shall_v have_v speak_v to_o but_o have_v not_o as_o for_o the_o sentence_n of_o the_o father_n to_o which_o you_o refer_v we_o for_o the_o determination_n of_o this_o question_n i_o suppose_v by_o what_o i_o have_v say_v above_o the_o reader_n understand_v by_o allege_v they_o you_o have_v gain_v little_a credit_n to_o your_o cause_n or_o person_n and_o that_o if_o they_o be_v competent_a judge_n of_o this_o controversy_n their_o sentence_n be_v against_o you_o much_o rather_o than_o for_o you_o 56._o but_o your_o argument_n you_o conceive_v will_v be_v more_o convince_a if_o we_o consider_v that_o when_o luther_n appear_v there_o be_v not_o two_o distinct_a visible_a true_a church_n one_o pure_a the_o other_o corrupt_v but_o one_o church_n only_o ans_fw-fr the_o ground_n of_o this_o be_v no_o way_n certain_a nor_o here_o sufficient_o prove_v for_o whereas_o you_o say_v history_n be_v silent_a of_o any_o such_o matter_n i_o answer_v there_o be_v no_o necessity_n that_o you_o or_o i_o shall_v have_v read_v all_o history_n that_o may_v be_v extant_a of_o this_o matter_n nor_o that_o all_o shall_v be_v extant_a that_o be_v write_v much_o less_o extant_a uncorrupted_a especial_o consider_v your_o church_n which_o have_v lat_o all_o power_n in_o her_o hand_n have_v be_v so_o pernitious_o industrious_a in_o corrupt_v the_o monument_n of_o antiquity_n that_o make_v against_o she_o nor_o that_o all_o record_n shall_v remain_v which_o be_v write_v nor_o that_o all_o shall_v be_v record_v which_o be_v do_v last_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o suppose_v a_o visible_a pure_a church_n luther_n must_v be_v a_o schismatic_a who_o separate_v from_o all_o visible_a church_n i_o tell_v you_o if_o you_o will_v suppose_v a_o visible_a church_n extant_a before_o and_o when_o luther_n arise_v conformable_a to_o he_o in_o all_o point_n of_o doctrine_n necessary_a and_o profitable_a then_o luther_n separate_v not_o from_o this_o church_n but_o adjoin_v himself_o to_o it_o not_o indeed_o in_o place_n which_o be_v not_o necessary_a not_o in_o external_a communion_n which_o be_v impossible_a but_o by_o the_o union_n of_o faith_n and_o charity_n upon_o these_o ground_n i_o say_v that_o the_o ground_n of_o this_o argument_n be_v no_o way_n make_v certain_a yet_o because_o it_o be_v not_o manifest_o false_a i_o be_o content_a to_o let_v it_o pass_v and_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v it_o be_v very_o safe_a for_o i_o to_o do_v so_o for_o you_o build_v nothing_o upon_o it_o which_o i_o may_v not_o fair_o grant_v for_o what_o do_v you_o conclude_v from_o hence_o but_o that_o see_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n but_o corrupt_v luther_n forsake_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o corrupt_a church_n can_v not_o but_o forsake_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n well_o let_v this_o also_o be_v grant_v what_o will_v come_v of_o it_o what_o that_o luther_n must_v be_v a_o schismatic_a by_o no_o mean_n for_o not_o every_o separation_n but_o only_o a_o causeless_a separation_n from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n we_o maintain_v to_o be_v schismatical_a hereunto_o may_v be_v add_v that_o though_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v corrupt_v yet_o proper_o speak_v it_o be_v not_o true_a that_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n forsake_v the_o whole_a corrupt_a church_n or_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o it_o but_o only_o that_o he_o forsake_v that_o part_n of_o it_o which_o be_v corrupt_v and_o still_o will_v be_v so_o and_o forsake_v not_o but_o only_o reform_v another_o part_n which_o part_v they_o themselves_o be_v and_o i_o suppose_v you_o will_v not_o go_v about_o to_o persuade_v we_o that_o they_o forsake_v themselves_o or_o their_o own_o communion_n and_o if_o you_o urge_v that_o they_o join_v themselves_o to_o no_o other_o part_n therefore_o they_o separate_v from_o the_o whole_a i_o say_v it_o follow_v not_o in_o as_o much_o as_o themselves_o be_v a_o part_n of_o it_o and_o still_o continue_v so_o and_o therefore_o can_v no_o more_o separate_v from_o the_o whole_a than_o from_o themselves_o thus_o though_o there_o be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o people_n of_o rome_n to_o who_o the_o plebeian_n join_v themselves_o when_o they_o make_v their_o secession_n into_o the_o aventine_n hill_n yet_o they_o divide_v themselves_o from_o the_o patrician_n only_o and_o not_o from_o the_o 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condition_n with_o we_o and_o why_o then_o may_v not_o we_o be_v certain_a of_o a_o obscure_a thing_n as_o well_o as_o you_o 51._o but_o then_o beside_o i_o be_o to_o tell_v you_o that_o you_o be_v here_o every_o where_o extreme_o if_o not_o affect_o mistake_v in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o protestant_n who_o though_o they_o acknowledge_v that_o the_o thing_n which_o they_o believe_v be_v in_o themselves_o as_o certain_a as_o any_o demonstrable_a or_o sensible_a verity_n yet_o pretend_v not_o that_o their_o certainty_n of_o adherence_n be_v most_o perfect_a and_o absolute_a but_o such_o as_o may_v be_v perfect_v and_o increase_v as_o long_o as_o they_o walk_v by_o faith_n and_o not_o by_o sight_n and_o consonant_n hereunto_o be_v their_o doctrine_n touch_v the_o evidence_n of_o the_o object_n whereunto_o they_o adhere_v for_o you_o abuse_v the_o world_n and_o they_o if_o you_o pretend_v that_o they_o hold_v the_o first_o of_o your_o two_o principle_n that_o these_o particular_a book_n be_v 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because_o they_o will_v not_o have_v that_o to_o be_v have_v and_o embrace_v for_o truth_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o their_o wilful_a desire_n it_o be_v a_o hard_a matter_n for_o they_o to_o relinquish_v their_o honour_n and_o set_v at_o naught_o other_o commodity_n which_o thing_n they_o know_v they_o ought_v to_o do_v if_o they_o admit_v of_o christ_n doctrine_n and_o obey_v what_o he_o have_v command_v and_o this_o be_v the_o rather_o to_o be_v note_v of_o they_o for_o that_o many_o other_o historical_a narration_n be_v approve_v by_o they_o to_o be_v true_a which_o notwithstanding_o be_v only_o manifest_a by_o authority_n and_o not_o by_o any_o such_o strong_a proof_n and_o persuasion_n or_o token_n as_o do_v declare_v the_o history_n of_o christ_n to_o be_v true_a which_o be_v evident_a partly_o by_o the_o confession_n of_o those_o jew_n that_o be_v yet_o alive_a and_o partly_o in_o those_o company_n and_o congregation_n of_o christian_n which_o be_v any_o where_n to_o be_v find_v whereof_o doubtless_o there_o be_v some_o cause_n last_o see_v the_o long_a duration_n or_o continuance_n of_o christian_a religion_n and_o the_o large_a extent_n thereof_o can_v be_v ascribe_v to_o no_o human_a power_n therefore_o the_o same_o must_v be_v attribute_v to_o miracle_n or_o if_o any_o deny_v that_o it_o come_v to_o pass_v through_o a_o miraculous_a manner_n this_o very_a get_v so_o great_a strength_n and_o power_n without_o a_o miracle_n may_v be_v think_v to_o surpass_v any_o miracle_n 52._o and_o now_o you_o see_v i_o hope_v that_o protestant_n neither_o do_v nor_o need_v to_o pretend_v to_o any_o such_o evidence_n in_o the_o doctrine_n they_o believe_v as_o can_v well_o consist_v both_o with_o the_o essence_n and_o the_o obedience_n of_o faith_n let_v we_o come_v now_o to_o the_o last_o nullity_n which_o you_o impute_v to_o the_o faith_n of_o protestant_n and_o that_o it_o be_v want_v of_o prudence_n touch_v which_o point_n as_o i_o have_v already_o demonstrate_v that_o wisdom_n be_v not_o essential_a to_o faith_n but_o that_o a_o man_n may_v true_o believe_v truth_n though_o upon_o insufficient_a motive_n so_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o i_o shall_v make_v good_a that_o if_o prudence_n be_v necessary_a to_o faith_n we_o have_v better_a title_n to_o it_o than_o you_o and_o that_o if_o a_o wise_a than_o solomon_n be_v here_o he_o shall_v have_v better_a reason_n to_o believe_v the_o religion_n of_o protestant_n than_o papist_n the_o bible_n rather_o than_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n but_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o you_o can_v say_v 53._o ad_fw-la §_o 31._o you_o demand_v then_o first_o of_o all_o what_o wisdom_n be_v it_o to_o forsake_v a_o church_n confess_o very_a ancient_n and_o beside_o which_o there_o can_v be_v demonstrate_v no_o other_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n upon_o earth_n i_o answer_v against_o god_n and_o truth_n there_o lie_v no_o prescription_n and_o therefore_o certain_o it_o may_v be_v great_a wisdom_n to_o forsake_v ancient_a error_n for_o more_o ancient_a truth_n one_o god_n be_v rather_o to_o be_v follow_v than_o innumerable_a world_n of_o man_n and_o therefore_o it_o may_v be_v great_a wisdom_n either_o for_o the_o whole_a visible_a church_n nay_o for_o all_o the_o man_n in_o the_o world_n have_v wander_v from_o the_o way_n of_o truth_n to_o return_v unto_o it_o or_o for_o a_o part_n of_o it_o nay_o for_o one_o man_n to_o do_v so_o although_o all_o the_o world_n beside_o be_v mad_o resolute_a to_o do_v the_o contrary_n it_o may_v be_v great_a wisdom_n to_o forsake_v the_o error_n though_o of_o the_o only_a visible_a church_n much_o more_o the_o roman_a which_o in_o conceive_v herself_o the_o whole_a visible_a church_n do_v somewhat_o like_o the_o frog_n in_o the_o fable_n which_o think_v the_o ditch_n he_o live_v in_o to_o be_v all_o the_o world_n 54._o you_o demand_v again_o
trouble_v you_o take_v the_o next_o boat_n and_o go_v to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n because_o that_o bespeak_v you_o first_o you_o impute_v to_o i_o as_o i_o hear_v that_o the_o way_n i_o take_v be_v destructive_a only_o and_o that_o i_o build_v nothing_o which_o first_o be_v not_o a_o fault_n for_o christian_a religion_n be_v not_o now_o to_o be_v build_v but_o only_o i_o desire_v to_o have_v the_o rubbish_n and_o impertinent_a lumber_n take_v off_o which_o you_o have_v lay_v upon_o it_o which_o hide_v the_o glorious_a simplicity_n of_o it_o from_o they_o which_o otherwise_o will_v embrace_v it_o remember_v i_o pray_v averro_n his_o say_n quandoquidem_fw-la christiani_n adorant_fw-la quod_fw-la comedunt_fw-la sit_fw-la anima_fw-la mea_fw-la cum_fw-la philosophis_fw-la and_o consider_v the_o swarm_n of_o atheist_n in_o italy_n and_o then_o tell_v i_o whether_o your_o unreasonable_a and_o contradictious_a doctrine_n your_o forge_a miracle_n and_o counterfeit_a legend_n have_v not_o in_o all_o probability_n produce_v this_o effect_n second_o if_o it_o be_v a_o fault_n it_o be_v certain_o your_o own_o for_o your_o discourse_n intend_v for_o the_o proof_n of_o a_o positive_a conclusion_n that_o we_o must_v be_v papist_n prove_v in_o deed_n and_o in_o truth_n nothing_o but_o even_o in_o show_n and_o appearance_n no_o more_o but_o this_o negative_a that_o we_o must_v not_o be_v protestant_n but_o what_o we_o must_v be_v if_o we_o must_v not_o be_v protestant_n god_n know_v you_o in_o this_o discourse_n i_o be_o sure_a do_v not_o show_v it_o mr._n lewgar_n reply_v §_o 1._o the_o minor_a of_o mr._n chillingworths_n argument_n against_o my_o ground_n be_v very_o weak_a be_v frame_v upon_o a_o false_a supposition_n that_o a_o protestant_n can_v name_v no_o other_o church_n profess_v a_o diverse_a faith_n etc._n etc._n from_o the_o greek_a church_n which_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n for_o if_o he_o can_v not_o indeed_o name_v any_o other_o the_o title_n will_v remain_v to_o the_o greek_a church_n but_o he_o have_v the_o roman_a to_o name_n and_o so_o my_o ground_n can_v conclude_v either_o for_o the_o greek_a or_o abyssine_n or_o any_o other_o beside_o the_o roman_a but_o for_o that_o it_o do_v except_o he_o can_v name_v some_o other_o §_o 2._o his_o second_o answer_n be_v weak_a likewise_o for_o my_o minor_n be_v always_o true_a at_o least_o they_o think_v it_o to_o be_v so_o who_o authority_n i_o produce_v in_o confirmation_n of_o it_o as_o will_v appear_v to_o any_o one_o that_o consider_v they_o well_o how_o their_o force_n lie_v in_o thesi_fw-la not_o in_o hypothesi_fw-la not_o that_o the_o church_n be_v not_o then_o divide_v into_o more_o society_n than_o one_o but_o that_o she_o can_v never_o be_v §_o 3._o as_o for_o his_o instance_n to_o the_o contrary_a wherein_o he_o believe_v i_o will_v not_o say_v the_o church_n excommunicate_v by_o victor_n cease_v to_o be_v a_o true_a member_n of_o the_o catholic_n if_o i_o say_v so_o i_o say_v no_o more_o than_o the_o ancient_a father_n say_v before_o i_o iraeneus_n when_o he_o desire_v victor_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d not_o to_o cut_v off_o so_o many_o and_o great_a church_n and_o ruffinus_n reprehendit_fw-la eam_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la benè_fw-la fecisset_fw-la abscindere_fw-la ab_fw-la unitate_fw-la corporis_fw-la etc._n etc._n §_o 4._o but_o howsoever_o the_o case_n of_o excommunication_n may_v be_v the_o division_n of_o external_a communion_n which_o i_o intend_v and_o the_o father_n speak_v of_o in_o the_o allege_a authority_n be_v that_o which_o be_v make_v by_o voluntary_a separation_n §_o 5._o whereby_o the_o church_n before_o one_o society_n be_v divide_v into_o several_a distinct_a society_n both_o claim_v to_o be_v the_o church_n of_o which_o society_n so_o divide_v but_o one_o can_v be_v the_o catholic_n and_o this_o be_v prove_v by_o the_o authority_n allege_v which_o authority_n must_v not_o be_v answer_v by_o disprove_v they_o as_o he_o do_v for_o that_o be_v to_o change_v his_o adversary_n and_o confute_v the_o father_n say_n instead_o of_o i_o but_o by_o show_v their_o true_a sense_n or_o judgement_n to_o be_v otherwise_o than_o i_o allege_v it_o §_o 6._o to_o his_o demand_n upon_o the_o place_n allege_v i_o answer_v that_o i_o do_v not_o build_v my_o whole_a faith_n of_o this_o conclusion_n upon_o the_o authority_n of_o those_o father_n for_o i_o produce_v they_o not_o for_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o thing_n but_o of_o the_o exposition_n the_o thing_n itself_o be_v a_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n unam_fw-la catholicam_fw-la ground_v in_o express_a scripture_n columba_n mea_fw-la unica_fw-la but_o because_o there_o be_v difference_n in_o understand_v this_o prophecy_n i_o produce_v these_o authority_n to_o show_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n how_o they_o understand_v it_o and_o the_o proper_a answer_n to_o this_o be_v either_o to_o show_v that_o these_o word_n be_v not_o there_o or_o at_o least_o not_o this_o meaning_n and_o so_o to_o show_v their_o meaning_n out_o of_o other_o place_n more_o pregnant_a §_o 7._o and_o i_o promise_v that_o whensoever_o a_o equal_a consent_n of_o father_n can_v be_v show_v for_o any_o thing_n as_o i_o can_v show_v for_o this_o i_o will_v believe_v it_o as_o firm_o as_o i_o do_v this_o §_o 8._o but_o this_o be_v not_o the_o answerers_n part_n to_o propound_v doubt_n and_o difficulty_n but_o to_o satisfy_v the_o proof_n object_v §_o 9_o and_o if_o this_o course_n be_v any_o more_o take_v i_o will_v save_v myself_o all_o far_a labour_n in_o a_o business_n so_o likely_a to_o be_v endless_a §_o 10._o his_o second_o answer_n to_o the_o place_n be_v whole_o impertinent_a for_o therein_o will_v he_o disprove_v they_o from_o watch_v a_o necessity_n of_o rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n whereas_o i_o produce_v they_o only_o to_o show_v that_o among_o several_a society_n of_o christian_n only_o one_o can_v be_v the_o catholic_n and_o against_o this_o his_o second_o answer_n say_v nothing_o §_o 11._o in_o his_o three_o answer_n he_o make_v some_o show_n of_o reply_n to_o the_o authority_n themselves_o but_o he_o commit_v a_o double_a error_n one_o that_o he_o impose_v upon_o i_o a_o wrong_a conclusion_n to_o be_v prove_v as_o will_v appear_v by_o compare_v my_o conclusion_n in_o my_o paper_n with_o the_o conclusion_n he_o will_v appoint_v i_o §_o 12._o another_o that_o he_o impose_v upon_o the_o authority_n a_o wrong_a interpretation_n no_o way_n ground_v in_o the_o word_n themselves_o nor_o in_o the_o place_n whence_o they_o be_v take_v nor_o in_o any_o other_o place_n of_o the_o same_o father_n but_o mere_o forge_v out_o of_o his_o own_o brain_n for_o first_o the_o place_n do_v not_o only_o say_v that_o the_o society_n of_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o church_n but_o that_o the_o church_n can_v be_v divide_v into_o more_o society_n than_o one_o and_o they_o account_v society_n divide_v which_o be_v either_o of_o a_o diverse_a faith_n or_o a_o diverse_a communion_n neither_o do_v they_o define_v heretic_n or_o schismatic_n in_o that_o manner_n as_o he_o do_v §_o 13._o for_o a_o heretic_n in_o their_o language_n be_v he_o that_o oppose_v partinacious_o the_o common_a faith_n of_o the_o church_n and_o a_o schismatic_a he_o that_o separate_v from_o the_o catholic_n communion_n never_o make_v any_o mention_n at_o all_o of_o the_o cause_n §_o 14._o and_o if_o his_o definition_n of_o a_o schismatic_a may_v stand_v then_o certain_o there_o be_v no_o schismatic_a ever_o in_o the_o world_n nor_o none_o be_v at_o this_o day_n for_o none_o do_v none_o do_v separate_v without_o some_o pretence_n of_o error_n or_o unlawfulness_n in_o the_o condition_n of_o the_o church_n communion_n §_o 15._o and_o so_o i_o expect_v both_o a_o full_a and_o direct_a answer_n to_o my_o argument_n without_o excursion_n or_o diversion_n into_o any_o other_o matter_n till_o the_o judgement_n of_o antiquity_n be_v clear_v in_o this_o point_n mr._n chillingworths_n answer_n ad_fw-la §_o 1._o the_o minor_a of_o my_o argument_n you_o say_v be_v very_o weak_a be_v ground_v upon_o a_o false_a supposition_n that_o a_o protestant_n can_v name_v no_o other_o church_n profess_v a_o diverse_a faith_n from_o the_o greek_a which_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n and_o your_o reason_n be_v because_o he_o may_v name_v the_o roman_a but_o in_o earnest_n mr._n lewgar_o do_v you_o think_v that_o a_o protestant_n remain_v a_o protestant_n can_v esteem_v the_o roman_a church_n to_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n or_o do_v you_o think_v to_o put_v trick_n upon_o we_o with_o take_v your_o proposition_n one_o while_n in_o sensu_fw-la composito_fw-la another_o while_n in_o sensu_fw-la diviso_fw-la for_o if_o your_o meaning_n be_v that_o a_o protestant_n not_o remain_v but_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o
creed_n without_o the_o former_a can_v be_v possible_o guard_v from_o fall_v into_o they_o and_o continue_v obstinate_a in_o they_o nay_o so_o far_o be_v this_o creed_n from_o guard_v they_o from_o these_o mischief_n that_o it_o be_v more_o likely_a to_o ensnare_v they_o into_o they_o by_o seem_v and_o yet_o not_o be_v a_o full_a comprehension_n of_o all_o necessary_a point_n of_o faith_n which_o be_v apt_a as_o experience_n show_v to_o misguide_v man_n into_o this_o pernicious_a error_n that_o believe_v the_o creed_n they_o believe_v all_o necessary_a point_n of_o faith_n whereas_o indeed_o they_o do_v not_o so_o now_o upon_o these_o ground_n i_o thus_o conclude_v that_o creed_n which_o have_v great_a commodity_n and_o no_o danger_n will_v certain_o be_v better_a then_o that_o which_o have_v great_a danger_n and_o want_v many_o of_o these_o great_a commodity_n but_o the_o former_a short_a creed_n propose_v by_o i_o i_o believe_v the_o roman_a church_n to_o be_v infallible_a if_o your_o doctrine_n be_v true_a be_v of_o the_o former_a condition_n and_o the_o latter_a that_o be_v the_o apostle_n creed_n be_v of_o the_o latter_a therefore_o the_o former_a if_o your_o doctrine_n be_v true_a will_v without_o controversy_n be_v better_a than_o the_o latter_a 83._o whereas_o you_o say_v if_o the_o apostle_n have_v express_v no_o article_n but_o that_o of_o the_o catholic_n church_n she_o must_v have_v teach_v we_o the_o other_o article_n in_o particular_a by_o creed_n or_o other_o mean_n this_o be_v very_o true_a but_o no_o way_n repugnant_a to_o the_o truth_n of_o this_o which_o follow_v that_o the_o apostle_n if_o your_o doctrine_n be_v true_a have_v do_v better_a service_n to_o the_o church_n though_o they_o have_v never_o make_v this_o creed_n of_o they_o which_o now_o we_o have_v if_o instead_o thereof_o they_o have_v command_v in_o plain_a term_n that_o for_o man_n perpetual_a direction_n in_o the_o faith_n this_o short_a creed_n shall_v be_v teach_v all_o man_n i_o believe_v the_o roman_a church_n shall_v be_v for_o ever_o infallible_a yet_o you_o must_v not_o so_o mistake_v i_o as_o if_o i_o mean_v that_o they_o have_v do_v better_a not_o to_o have_v teach_v the_o church_n the_o substance_n of_o christian_a religion_n for_o then_o the_o church_n not_o have_v learn_v it_o of_o they_o can_v not_o have_v teach_v it_o we_o this_o therefore_o i_o do_v not_o say_v but_o suppose_v they_o have_v write_v these_o scripture_n as_o they_o have_v write_v wherein_o all_o the_o article_n of_o their_o creed_n be_v plain_o deliver_v and_o preach_v that_o doctrine_n which_o they_o do_v preach_v and_o do_v all_o other_o thing_n as_o they_o have_v do_v beside_o the_o compose_v their_o symbol_n i_o say_v if_o your_o doctrine_n be_v true_a they_o have_v do_v a_o work_n infinite_o more_o beneficial_a to_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n if_o they_o have_v never_o compose_v their_o symbol_n which_o be_v but_o a_o imperfect_a comprehension_n of_o the_o necessary_a point_n of_o simple_a belief_n and_o no_o distinctive_a mark_n as_o a_o symbol_n shall_v be_v between_o those_o that_o be_v good_a christian_n and_o those_o that_o be_v not_o so_o but_o instead_o thereof_o have_v deliver_v this_o one_o proposition_n which_o will_v have_v be_v certain_o effectual_a for_o all_o the_o aforesaid_a good_a intent_n and_o purpose_n the_o roman_a church_n shall_v be_v forever_o infallible_a in_o all_o thing_n which_o she_o propose_v as_o matter_n of_o faith_n 84._o whereas_o you_o say_v if_o we_o will_v believe_v we_o have_v all_o in_o the_o creed_n when_o we_o have_v not_o all_o it_o be_v not_o the_o apostle_n fault_n but_o our_o own_o i_o tell_v you_o plain_o if_o it_o be_v a_o fault_n i_o know_v not_o who_o it_o shall_v be_v but_o they_o for_o sure_a it_o can_v be_v no_o fault_n in_o i_o to_o follow_v such_o guide_n whether_o soever_o they_o lead_v i_o now_o i_o say_v they_o have_v lead_v i_o into_o this_o persuasion_n because_o they_o have_v give_v i_o great_a reason_n to_o believe_v it_o and_o none_o to_o the_o contrary_n the_o reason_n they_o have_v give_v i_o to_o believe_v it_o be_v because_o it_o be_v apparent_a and_o confess_v they_o do_v propose_v to_o themselves_o in_o compose_v it_o some_o good_a end_n or_o end_n as_o that_o christian_n may_v have_v a_o form_n by_o which_o for_o matter_n of_o faith_n they_o may_v profess_v themselves_o catholic_n so_o putean_n out_o of_o thomas_n aquinas_n that_o the_o faithful_a may_v know_v what_o the_o christian_a people_n be_v to_o believe_v explicit_o so_o vincent_n filiucius_n that_o be_v separate_v into_o divers_a part_n of_o the_o world_n they_o may_v preach_v the_o same_o thing_n and_o that_o that_o may_v serve_v as_o a_o mark_n to_o distinguish_v true_a christian_n from_o infidel_n so_o cardinal_n richlieu_n now_o for_o all_o these_o and_o for_o any_o other_o good_a intent_n i_o say_v it_o will_v be_v plain_o uneffectual_a unless_o it_o contain_v at_o least_o all_o point_n of_o simple_a belief_n which_o be_v in_o ordinary_a course_n necessary_a to_o be_v explicit_o know_v by_o all_o man_n so_o that_o if_o it_o be_v a_o fault_n in_o i_o to_o believe_v this_o it_o must_v be_v my_o fault_n to_o believe_v the_o apostle_n wise_a and_o good_a man_n which_o i_o can_v do_v if_o i_o believe_v not_o this_o and_o therefore_o what_o richardus_fw-la de_fw-fr sancto_fw-la victore_fw-la say_v of_o god_n himself_o i_o make_v no_o scruple_n at_o all_o to_o apply_v to_o the_o apostle_n and_o to_o say_v si_fw-mi error_n est_fw-la quod_fw-la credo_fw-la à _fw-la vobis_fw-la deceptus_fw-la sum_fw-la if_o it_o be_v a_o error_n which_o i_o believe_v it_o be_v you_o and_o my_o reverend_a esteem_n of_o you_o and_o your_o action_n that_o have_v lead_v i_o into_o it_o for_o as_o for_o your_o suspicion_n that_o we_o be_v lead_v into_o this_o persuasion_n out_o of_o a_o hope_n that_o we_o may_v the_o better_o maintain_v by_o it_o some_o opinion_n of_o our_o own_o it_o be_v plain_o uncharitable_a i_o know_v no_o opinion_n i_o have_v which_o i_o will_v not_o as_o willing_o forsake_v as_o keep_v if_o i_o can_v see_v sufficient_a reason_n to_o induce_v i_o to_o believe_v that_o it_o be_v the_o will_n of_o god_n i_o shall_v forsake_v it_o neither_o do_v i_o know_v any_o opinion_n i_o hold_v against_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o i_o have_v more_o evident_a ground_n than_o this_o whereupon_o to_o build_v it_o for_o let_v but_o these_o truth_n be_v grant_v that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v independent_a on_o your_o church_n and_o dependent_a only_o in_o respect_n of_o we_o upon_o universal_a tradition_n that_o scripture_n be_v the_o only_a rule_n of_o faith_n that_o all_o thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n be_v plain_o deliver_v in_o scripture_n let_v i_o say_v these_o most_o certain_a and_o divine_a truth_n be_v lay_v for_o foundation_n and_o let_v our_o superstruction_n be_v consequent_a and_o coherent_a to_o they_o and_o i_o be_o confident_a peace_n will_v be_v restore_v and_o truth_n maintain_v against_o you_o though_o the_o apostle_n creed_n be_v not_o in_o the_o world_n chap._n v._o the_o answer_n to_o the_o five_o chapter_n show_v that_o the_o separation_n of_o protestant_n from_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v upon_o just_a and_o necessary_a cause_n be_v not_o any_o way_n guilty_a of_o schism_n 1._o ad_fw-la §_o 1.2_o 3_o 4_o 5_o 6_o 7._o in_o the_o seven_o first_o section_n of_o this_o chapter_n there_o be_v many_o thing_n say_v and_o many_o thing_n suppose_v by_o you_o which_o be_v untrue_a and_o deserve_v a_o censure_n as_o 2._o first_o that_o schism_n can_v not_o be_v a_o division_n from_o the_o church_n or_o that_o a_o division_n from_o the_o church_n can_v not_o happen_v unless_o there_o always_o have_v be_v and_o shall_v be_v a_o visible_a church_n which_o assertion_n be_v a_o manifest_a falsehood_n for_o although_o there_o never_o have_v be_v any_o church_n visible_a or_o invisible_a before_o this_o age_n nor_o shall_v be_v ever_o after_o yet_o this_o can_v not_o hinder_v but_o that_o a_o schism_n may_v now_o be_v and_o be_v a_o division_n from_o the_o present_a visible_a church_n as_o though_o in_o france_n there_o never_o have_v be_v until_o now_o a_o lawful_a monarch_n nor_o after_o he_o ever_o shall_v be_v yet_o this_o hinder_v not_o but_o that_o now_o there_o may_v be_v a_o rebellion_n and_o that_o rebellion_n may_v be_v a_o insurrection_n against_o sovereign_a authority_n 3._o that_o it_o be_v a_o point_n to_o be_v grant_v by_o all_o christian_n that_o in_o all_o age_n there_o have_v be_v a_o visible_a congregation_n of_o faithful_a people_n which_o proposition_n howsoever_o you_o understand_v it_o be_v not_o absolute_o certain_a but_o if_o you_o mean_v by_o faithful_a as_o it_o be_v plain_a you_o do_v free_a from_o all_o error_n in_o faith_n than_o
other_o i_o hope_v have_v chair_n beside_o s._n peter_n and_o therefore_o he_o be_v a_o schismatic_a who_o against_o that_o one_o single_a chair_n erect_v another_o viz._n in_o that_o place_n make_v another_o bishop_n of_o that_o diocese_n beside_o he_o who_o be_v lawful_o elect_v to_o it_o 100_o obj._n but_o he_o style_v s._n peter_n head_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o say_v that_o from_o thence_o he_o be_v call_v cephas_n answ_n perhaps_o he_o be_v abuse_v into_o this_o opinion_n by_o think_v cephas_n derive_v from_o the_o greek_a word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d a_o head_n whereas_o it_o be_v a_o syriack_n word_n and_o signify_v a_o stone_n beside_o s._n peter_n may_v be_v head_n of_o the_o apostle_n that_o be_v first_o in_o order_n and_o honour_n among_o they_o and_o not_o have_v supreme_a authority_n over_o they_o and_o indeed_o that_o s._n peter_n shall_v have_v authority_n over_o all_o the_o apostle_n and_o yet_o exercise_v no_o one_o act_n of_o authority_n over_o any_o one_o of_o they_o and_o that_o they_o shall_v show_v to_o he_o no_o sign_n of_o subjection_n methinks_v be_v as_o strange_a as_o that_o a_o king_n of_o england_n for_o twenty_o five_o year_n shall_v do_v no_o act_n of_o regality_n nor_o receive_v any_o one_o acknowledgement_n of_o it_o as_o strange_a methinks_v it_o be_v that_o you_o so_o many_o age_n after_o shall_v know_v this_o so_o certain_o as_o you_o pretend_v to_o do_v and_o that_o the_o apostle_n after_o that_o those_o word_n be_v speak_v in_o their_o hear_n by_o virtue_n whereof_o s._n peter_n be_v pretend_v to_o have_v be_v make_v their_o head_n shall_v still_o be_v so_o ignorant_a of_o it_o as_o to_o question_v which_o of_o they_o shall_v be_v the_o great_a yet_o more_o strange_a that_o our_o saviour_n shall_v not_o bring_v they_o out_o of_o their_o error_n by_o tell_v they_o s._n peter_n be_v the_o man_n but_o rather_o confirm_v it_o by_o say_v the_o king_n of_o the_o gentile_n exercise_v authority_n over_o they_o but_o it_o shall_v not_o be_v so_o among_o they_o no_o less_o a_o wonder_n be_v it_o that_o s._n paul_n shall_v so_o far_o forget_v s._n peter_n and_o himself_o as_o that_o first_o mention_v he_o often_o he_o shall_v do_v it_o without_o any_o title_n of_o honour_n second_o speak_v of_o the_o several_a degree_n of_o man_n in_o the_o church_n he_o shall_v not_o give_v s._n peter_n the_o high_a but_o place_v he_o in_o equipage_n with_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o say_v god_n have_v appoint_v not_o first_o peter_n than_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o apostle_n but_o first_o apostle_n second_o prophet_n certain_o if_o the_o apostle_n be_v all_o first_o to_o i_o it_o be_v very_o probable_a that_o no_o one_o of_o they_o be_v before_o the_o rest_n for_o by_o first_o all_o man_n understand_v either_o that_o which_o be_v before_o all_o or_o that_o before_o which_o be_v nothing_o now_o in_o the_o former_a sense_n the_o apostle_n can_v not_o be_v all_o first_o for_o then_o every_o one_o of_o they_o must_v have_v be_v before_o every_o one_o of_o the_o rest_n and_o therefore_o they_o must_v be_v first_o in_o the_o other_o sense_n and_o therefore_o no_o man_n and_o therefore_o not_o s._n peter_n must_v be_v before_o any_o of_o they_o three_o and_o last_o that_o speak_v of_o himself_o in_o particular_a and_o perhaps_o compare_v himself_o with_o s._n peter_n in_o particular_a rather_o than_o any_o other_o he_o shall_v say_v in_o plain_a term_n i_o be_o in_o nothing_o inferior_a to_o the_o very_o chief_a apostle_n but_o beside_o all_o this_o though_o we_o shall_v grant_v against_o all_o these_o probability_n and_o many_o more_o that_o optatus_n mean_v that_o s._n peter_n be_v head_n of_o the_o apostle_n not_o in_o our_o but_o in_o your_o sense_n and_o that_o s._n peter_n indeed_o be_v so_o yet_o still_o you_o be_v very_o far_o from_o show_v that_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o optatus_n the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n be_v to_o be_v at_o all_o much_o less_o by_o divine_a right_n successor_n to_o s._n peter_n in_o this_o his_o headship_n and_o authority_n for_o what_o incongruity_n be_v there_o if_o we_o say_v that_o he_o may_v succeed_v s._n peter_n in_o that_o part_n of_o his_o care_n the_o government_n of_o that_o particular_a church_n as_o sure_o he_o do_v even_o while_n s._n peter_n be_v live_v and_o yet_o that_o neither_o he_o nor_o any_o man_n be_v to_o succeed_v he_o in_o his_o apostleship_n nor_o in_o his_o government_n of_o the_o church_n universal_a especial_o see_v s._n peter_n and_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o apostle_n by_o lay_v the_o foundation_n of_o the_o church_n be_v to_o be_v the_o foundation_n of_o it_o and_o according_o be_v so_o call_v in_o scripture_n and_o therefore_o as_o in_o a_o build_n it_o be_v incongruous_a that_o foundation_n shall_v succeed_v foundation_n so_o it_o may_v be_v in_o the_o church_n that_o any_o other_o apostle_n shall_v succeed_v the_o first_o 101._o ad_fw-la §_o 37._o obj._n what_o you_o here_o cite_v out_o of_o s._n austin_n if_o it_o be_v apply_v to_o luther_n separation_n be_v impertinent_a for_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o separate_v from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o whole_a world_n another_o to_o separate_v from_o all_o the_o communion_n in_o the_o world_n one_o thing_n to_o divide_v from_o they_o who_o be_v unite_v among_o themselves_o another_o to_o divide_v from_o they_o who_o be_v divide_v among_o themselves_o now_o the_o donatist_n separate_v from_o the_o whole_a world_n of_o christian_n unite_v in_o one_o communion_n profess_v the_o same_o faith_n serve_v god_n after_o the_o same_o manner_n which_o be_v a_o very_a great_a argument_n that_o they_o can_v not_o have_v just_a cause_n to_o leave_v they_o according_a to_o that_o of_o tertullian_n variasse_n debuerat_fw-la error_n ecclesiarum_fw-la quod_fw-la autem_fw-la apud_fw-la multos_fw-la unum_fw-la est_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la erratum_fw-la sed_fw-la traditum_fw-la but_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n do_v not_o so_o the_o world_n i_o mean_v of_o christian_n and_o catholic_n be_v divide_v and_o subdivide_v long_o before_o he_o divide_v from_o it_o and_o by_o their_o division_n have_v much_o weaken_v their_o own_o authority_n and_o take_v away_o from_o you_o this_o plea_n of_o s._n austin_n which_o stand_v upon_o no_o other_o foundation_n but_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o whole_a world_n communion_n 102._o ad_fw-la §_o 38._o obj._n if_o luther_n be_v in_o the_o right_n most_o certain_a those_o protestant_n that_o differ_v from_o he_o be_v in_o the_o wrong_n answ_n but_o that_o either_o he_o or_o they_o be_v schismatic_n it_o follow_v not_o or_o if_o it_o do_v then_o either_o the_o jesuit_n be_v schismatic_n from_o the_o dominicans_n or_o they_o from_o the_o jesuit_n the_o canonist_n from_o the_o jesuit_n or_o the_o jesuit_n from_o the_o canonist_n the_o scotist_n from_o the_o thomist_n or_o they_o from_o the_o scotist_n the_o franciscans_n from_o the_o dominicans_n or_o the_o dominicans_n from_o the_o franciscans_n for_o between_o all_o these_o the_o world_n know_v that_o in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n there_o be_v plain_a and_o irreconcilable_a contradiction_n and_o therefore_o one_o part_n must_v be_v in_o error_n at_o least_o not_o fundamental_a thus_o your_o argument_n return_v upon_o yourself_o and_o if_o it_o be_v good_a prove_v the_o roman_a church_n in_o a_o manner_n to_o be_v make_v up_o of_o schismatic_n but_o the_o answer_n to_o it_o be_v that_o it_o beg_v this_o very_a false_a and_o vain_a supposition_n that_o whosoever_o err_v in_o any_o point_n of_o doctrine_n be_v a_o schismatic_a 103._o ad_fw-la §_o 39_o in_o the_o next_o place_n you_o number_v up_o your_o victory_n and_o tell_v we_o that_o out_o of_o these_o premise_n this_o conclusion_n follow_v that_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n be_v schismatic_n from_o the_o visible_a church_n the_o pope_n the_o diocese_n wherein_o they_o be_v baptize_v from_o the_o bishop_n under_o who_o they_o live_v from_o the_o country_n to_o which_o they_o belong_v from_o their_o religious_a order_n wherein_o they_o be_v profess_v from_o one_o another_o and_o last_o from_o a_o man_n self_n because_o the_o self_n same_o protestant_n be_v convict_v to_o day_n that_o his_o yesterday_n opinion_n be_v a_o error_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n separate_v from_o many_o of_o these_o in_o some_o opinion_n and_o practice_n but_o that_o they_o do_v it_o without_o cause_n which_o only_o can_v make_v they_o schismatic_n that_o be_v the_o only_a thing_n you_o shall_v have_v prove_v and_o to_o that_o you_o have_v not_o urge_v one_o reason_n of_o any_o moment_n all_o of_o they_o for_o weight_n and_o strength_n be_v cousin-germans_a to_o this_o pretty_a device_n wherewith_o you_o will_v prove_v they_o schismatic_n from_o themselves_o because_o the_o self_n same_o protestant_n to_o