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world_n catholic_n church_n visible_a 3,605 5 9.5506 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A27045 The successive visibility of the church of which the Protestants are the soundest members I. defended against the opposition of Mr. William Johnson, II. proved by many arguments / by Richard Baxter ; whereunto is added 1. an account of my judgement to Mr. J. how far hereticks are or are not in the church, 2. Mr. Js. explication of the most used terms, with my queries thereupon, and his answer and my reply, 3. an appendix about successive ordination, 4. letters between me and T.S., a papist, with a narrative of the success. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.; Johnson, William, 1583-1663. 1660 (1660) Wing B1418; ESTC R17445 166,900 438

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have_v prove_v it_o by_o this_o argument_n that_o either_o he_o have_v that_o supremacy_n or_o some_o other_o church_n deny_v that_o he_o have_v always_o have_v it_o have_v be_v always_o visible_a and_o that_o church_n you_o require_v shall_v be_v name_v i_o reply_v 1._o have_v not_o you_o despair_v of_o make_v good_a your_o cause_n you_o shall_v have_v go_v on_o by_o argumentation_n till_o you_o have_v force_v i_o to_o contradict_v some_o common_a principle_n 2._o if_o you_o shall_v show_v these_o paper_n to_o the_o world_n and_o tell_v they_o that_o you_o have_v no_o better_a proof_n of_o the_o succession_n of_o your_o papacy_n then_o that_o we_o prove_v not_o that_o it_o have_v always_o be_v deny_v by_o the_o visible_a church_n you_o will_v sure_o turn_v thousand_o from_o popery_n if_o there_o be_v so_o many_o rational_a consider_v impartial_a man_n that_o will_v peruse_v they_o and_o believe_v you_o for_o any_o man_n may_v know_v that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v expect_v that_o the_o church_n shall_v deny_v a_o vice-christ_n before_o he_o be_v spring_v up_o why_o do_v not_o all_o the_o precedent_a roman_a bishop_n disclaim_v the_o title_n of_o universal_a bishop_n or_o patriarch_n till_o pelagius_n and_o gregory_n but_o because_o there_o be_v none_o in_o the_o world_n that_o give_v occasion_n for_o it_o how_o shall_v any_o heresy_n be_v oppose_v or_o condemn_v before_o it_o do_v arise_v but_o you_o fair_o yield_v i_o somewhat_o here_o and_o say_v that_o you_o oblige_v i_o not_o to_o prove_v a_o continue_a visible_a church_n formal_o and_o express_o deny_v it_o but_o that_o it_o be_v of_o such_o a_o constitution_n as_o be_v inconsistent_a with_o any_o such_o supremacy_n or_o can_v and_o do_v subsist_v without_o it_o reply_v i_o confess_v your_o first_o part_n be_v very_o ingenuous_a and_o
from_o we_o be_v but_o the_o opinion_n of_o a_o faction_n among_o they_o before_o luther_n and_o that_o the_o western_a church_n before_o luther_n be_v protestant_n even_o in_o those_o particular_a controversy_n though_o this_o be_v a_o thing_n that_o we_o need_v not_o prove_v and_o as_o dr._n potter_n tell_v they_o pag._n 68_o the_o roman_a doctor_n do_v not_o full_o and_o absolute_o agree_v in_o any_o one_o point_n among_o themselves_o but_o only_o in_o such_o point_n wherein_o they_o agree_v with_o we_o in_o the_o other_o dispute_v between_o we_o they_o differ_v one_o from_o another_o as_o much_o almost_o as_o they_o differ_v from_o we_o he_o appeal_v for_o this_o to_o bellarmine_n tome_n though_o i_o can_v undertake_v to_o make_v this_o good_a in_o every_o point_n yet_o that_o proper_a popery_n be_v hold_v but_o by_o a_o faction_n in_o the_o western_a church_n even_o at_o its_o height_n before_o luther_n be_v easy_o make_v good_a he_o that_o read_v but_o the_o writer_n before_o luther_n and_o in_o history_n note_v the_o desire_n of_o emperor_n king_n and_o university_n and_o bishop_n for_o reformation_n of_o the_o thing_n that_o we_o have_v reform_v may_v soon_o see_v this_o to_o be_v very_o true_a it_o be_v avitas_fw-la leges_fw-la &_o consuetudines_fw-la angliae_fw-la as_o rog._n hoved●n_n and_o matth._n paris_n in_o h._n 2._o show_n that_o the_o pope_n here_o damn_v and_o anathematise_v all_o that_o favour_a and_o observe_v they_o o_o tender_a father_n even_o to_o king_n o_o enemy_n of_o novelty_n the_o german_a history_n collect_v by_o reuberus_n pistorus_fw-la freherus_fw-la and_o goldastus_n show_v it_o as_o plain_a as_o day_n light_n that_o a_o papal_a faction_n by_o fury_n and_o turbulence_n keep_v under_o the_o far_o great_a part_n of_o the_o church_n by_o force_n that_o indeed_o dissent_v from_o they_o even_o from_o hildebrand_n day_n till_o luther_n or_o near_o say_v the_o apologia_fw-la henrici_fw-la 4._o imperat._v in_o m._n fr●heri_fw-la tom._n 1._o p._n 178._o behold_v pope_n hildebrand_n bishop_n when_o doubtless_o they_o be_v murderer_n of_o soul_n and_o body_n such_o as_o deserve_o be_v call_v the_o synagogue_n of_o satan_n yet_o they_o write_v that_o on_o his_o and_o on_o their_o side_n or_o party_n be_v the_o holy_a mother_n church_n when_o the_o catholic_n that_o be_v the_o universal_a church_n be_v not_o in_o the_o schism_n of_o any_o side_n or_o party_n but_o in_o the_o universality_n of_o the_o faithful_a agree_v together_o by_o the_o spirit_n of_o peace_n and_o charity_n and_o p._n 179._o see_v how_o this_o minister_n of_o the_o devil_n be_v beside_o himself_o and_o will_v draw_v we_o with_o he_o into_o the_o ditch_n of_o perdition_n that_o write_v that_o god_n holy_a priesthood_n be_v with_o only_o 13._o or_o few_o more_o bishop_n of_o hildebrand_n and_o that_o the_o priesthood_n of_o all_o the_o rest_n through_o the_o world_n be_v separate_v from_o the_o church_n of_o god_n when_o certain_o not_o only_o the_o testimony_n of_o gregory_n and_o innocent_n but_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o the_o holy_a father_n agree_v with_o that_o of_o cyprian_a that_o he_o be_v a_o alien_n profane_a a_o enemy_n that_o he_o can_v have_v god_n for_o his_o father_n that_o hold_v not_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n which_o he_o after_o describe_v to_o have_v one_o priesthood_n et_fw-fr p._n 181._o but_o some_o that_o go_v out_o from_o we_o say_v and_o write_v that_o they_o defend_v the_o party_n of_o their_o gregory_n not_o the_o whole_a which_o be_v christ_n which_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n of_o christ._n and_o p._n 180._o but_o our_o adversary_n that_o go_v from_o we_o not_o we_o from_o they_o use_v thus_o to_o commend_v themselves_o we_o be_v the_o catholic_n we_o be_v in_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n so_o the_o writer_n call_v they_o catholic_n and_o we_o that_o hold_v the_o faith_n of_o the_o holy_a father_n that_o consent_n with_o all_o good_a man_n that_o love_n peace_n and_o brotherhood_n us_o he_o call_v schismatic_n and_o heretic_n and_o excommunicate_a because_o we_o resist_v not_o the_o king_n and_o p._n 181._o isidore_n say_v etym._n l._n 8._o the_o church_n be_v call_v catholic_n because_o it_o be_v not_o as_o the_o conventicle_n of_o heretic_n confine_v in_o certain_a country_n but_o diffuse_v through_o the_o whole_a world_n therefore_o they_o have_v not_o the_o catholic_n faith_n that_o be_v in_o a_o part_n and_o not_o in_o the_o whole_a which_o christ_n have_v redeem_v and_o must_v reign_v with_o christ._n they_o that_o confess_v in_o the_o creed_n that_o they_o believe_v the_o holy_a catholic_n church_n and_o be_v divide_v into_o party_n hold_v not_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n which_o unity_n believer_n be_v of_o one_o heart_n and_o one_o soul_n proper_o belong_v to_o the_o catholic_n church_n so_o this_o apol._n one_o objection_n i_o must_v here_o remove_v which_o be_v all_o and_o n●thing_n viz._n that_o the_o armenian_n greek_n georgian_n abassine_n and_o many_o other_o here_o name_v differ_v from_o protestant_n in_o many_o point_n of_o faith_n and_o therefore_o they_o can_v be_v of_o the_o same_o church_n ans._n 1._o they_o differ_v in_o nothing_o essential_a to_o our_o church_n or_o religion_n nor_o near_o the_o essence_n 2._o protestant_n differ_v in_o some_o lesser_a point_n and_o yet_o you_o call_v they_o all_o protestant_n yourselves_o 3._o i_o prove_v undeniable_o from_o your_o own_o pen_n that_o man_n differ_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n be_v all_o take_v to_o be_v of_o your_o church_n and_o so_o of_o one_o church_n and_o therefore_o you_o contradict_v yourselves_o in_o make_v all_o point_n of_o faith_n to_o be_v essential_o of_o the_o christian_a religion_n or_o church_n 1._o the_o council_n of_o basil_n and_o constance_n differ_v the_o fide_fw-la with_o the_o pop●_n and_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n and_o florence_n they_o express_o affirm_v their_o doctrine_n to_o be_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la that_o the_o council_n be_v above_o the_o pope_n and_o may_v depose_v he_o etc._n etc._n and_o the_o contrary_a heresy_n and_o pighius_fw-la hierarch_n eccles._n lib._n 6._o say_v that_o these_o council_n go_v against_o the_o undoubted_a faith_n and_o judgement_n of_o the_o orthodox_n church_n itself_o 2._o their_o saint_n tho._n aquinas_n and_o most_o of_o their_o doctor_n with_o he_o differ_v from_o the_o second_o council_n of_o nice_a in_o hold_v the_o cross_n and_o image_n of_o christ_n to_o be_v worship_v with_o latria_n which_o that_o council_n determine_v against_o see_v more_o argument_n in_o my_o key_n for_o cath._n p._n 127_o 128._o and_o after_o i_o will_v now_o add_v a_o testimony_n sufficient_a to_o silence_v papist_n in_o this_o point_n and_o that_o be_v the_o determination_n of_o the_o theological_a faculty_n of_o paris_n under_o their_o great_a seal_n against_o one_o johan._n de_fw-la montesono_fw-it ordinis_fw-la praedic_fw-la as_o you_o may_v find_v it_o after_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o error_n reject_v by_o that_o university_n in_o the_o end_n of_o lombard_n print_v at_o paris_n 1557._o pag._n 426._o their_o 3._o conclusion_n be_v that_o saint_n thom._n aquin._n doctrine_n be_v not_o so_o approve_v by_o the_o church_n as_o that_o we_o must_v believe_v that_o it_o be_v in_o no_o part_n of_o it_o erroneous_a de_fw-fr fide_fw-la in_o matter_n of_o faith_n or_o heretical_a they_o prove_v it_o because_o it_o have_v many_o contradiction_n even_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o therefore_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o believe_v it_o not_o heretical_a here_o fol._n 426_o 427._o they_o give_v six_o example_n of_o his_o contradiction_n and_o therefore_o they_o conclude_v that_o though_o he_o be_v no_o heretic_n because_o not_o pertinacious_a yet_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o believe_v that_o his_o doctrine_n be_v in_o no_o part_n heretical_a or_o erroneous_a in_o the_o faith_n they_o further_o argue_v thus_o if_o we_o must_v believe_v his_o doctrine_n not_o heretical_a etc._n etc._n this_o shall_v be_v chief_o because_o it_o be_v approve_v by_o the_o church_n but_o there_o be_v some_o doctrine_n much_o more_o approve_a by_o the_o church_n than_o the_o doctrine_n of_o s._n tho._n which_o yet_o be_v in_o some_o part_n of_o it_o heretical_a or_o erroneous_a in_o the_o faith_n therefore_o the_o minor_a they_o prove_v by_o many_o example_n the_o first_o be_v of_o peter_n doctrine_n gal._n 2._o i_o own_v not_o this_o by_o cite_v it_o the_o second_o be_v of_o cyprian_a the_o three_o of_o hierom_n and_o they_o add_v that_o the_o same_o may_v be_v say_v of_o augustine_n and_o many_o more_o approve_a doctor_n the_o four_o example_n be_v lombard_n himself_o who_o they_o say_v have_v somewhat_o erroneous_a in_o the_o faith_n the_o five_o be_v gratian_n who_o have_v he_o pertinacious_o adhere_v to_o his_o doctrine_n they_o say_v have_v be_v a_o manifest_a heretic_n and_o say_v they_o some_o say_v the_o
protestant_n be_v chief_a member_n be_v clear_o prove_v and_o the_o papist_n exception_n against_o it_o confute_v london_n print_v in_o the_o year_n 1660._o qu._n whether_o the_o church_n of_o which_o the_o protestant_n be_v member_n have_v be_v visible_a ever_o since_o the_o day_n of_o christ_n on_o earth_n aff._n the_o term_n explain_v 1._o the_o church_n sometime_o signify_v a_o particular_a congregation_n actual_o meet_v or_o associate_v for_o such_o personal_a meeting_n for_o communion_n in_o god_n worship_n 2._o sometime_o it_o signify_v a_o association_n of_o church_n and_o that_o either_o of_o sewer_n or_o of_o more_o as_o they_o have_v opportunity_n of_o communion_n or_o correspondency_n by_o their_o pastor_n and_o also_o the_o assembly_n of_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o particular_a church_n so_o associate_v scripture_n use_v it_o in_o the_o first_o sense_n and_o late_a custom_n whether_o scripture_n also_o i_o omit_v in_o the_o late_a 3._o both_o scripture_n and_o custom_n have_v use_v the_o word_n to_o signify_v the_o church_n universal_a of_o which_o all_o particular_a church_n be_v member_n this_o be_v the_o church_n that_o we_o speak_v of_o in_o the_o question_n defin._n the_o universal_a church_n of_o which_o the_o protestant_n profess_v themselves_o member_n be_v the_o kingdom_n of_o jesus_n christ_n or_o the_o whole_a company_n of_o believer_n or_o true_a christian_n upon_o earth_n subject_v to_o jesus_n christ_n their_o head_n the_o constitutive_a part_n or_o the_o relate_v and_o correlate_n be_v as_o in_o every_o politic_a body_n the_o parson_n imperans_fw-la and_o pars_fw-la subdita_fw-la which_o be_v christ_n and_o christian_n the_o form_n consist_v in_o the_o mutual_a relation_n the_o end_n be_v the_o common_a good_a of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o glory_n of_o the_o head_n and_o the_o accomplishment_n of_o the_o will_n of_o god_n 2._o the_o protestant_n defin._n protestant_n be_v christian_n protest_v against_o or_o disow_a popery_n the_o word_n protestant_n express_v not_o the_o essence_n of_o our_o religion_n and_o therefore_o it_o must_v not_o denominate_v the_o universal_a church_n of_o which_o we_o be_v member_n we_o be_v not_o to_o call_v it_o a_fw-la protestant_n universal_a church_n nor_o do_v it_o signify_v a_o inseparable_a proper_a accident_n for_o when_o the_o catholic_n church_n have_v no_o popery_n there_o be_v none_o to_o protest_v against_o and_o therefore_o there_o can_v be_v no_o protestant_n and_o ethiopia_n india_n and_o other_o nation_n that_o never_o have_v popery_n or_o those_o nation_n that_o never_o hear_v of_o it_o have_v no_o occasion_n to_o protest_v against_o it_o nor_o do_v it_o signify_v any_o positive_a part_n direct_o of_o our_o religion_n but_o only_o the_o negation_n or_o rejection_n of_o popery_n even_o as_o when_o a_o man_n be_v call_v homo_fw-la purgatus_fw-la sanatus_fw-la liberatus_fw-la à_fw-la leprâ_fw-la peste_fw-la tabe_fw-la etc._n etc._n a_o man_n purge_v heal_v free_v from_o the_o leprosy_n plague_n consumption_n etc._n etc._n it_o be_v no_o positive_a part_n nor_o inseparable_a proper_a accident_n much_o less_o any_o essential_a part_n of_o the_o man_n that_o be_v signify_v by_o the_o word_n heal_v purge_v etc._n etc._n nor_o be_v it_o necessary_a in_o order_n to_o the_o prove_v he_o a_o man_n or_o a_o healthful_a man_n to_o prove_v that_o he_o be_v ever_o he_o purge_v or_o heal_v man_n we_o undertake_v not_o therefore_o to_o prove_v that_o there_o have_v be_v always_o protestant_n that_o be_v man_n protest_v against_o popery_n nor_o have_v we_o any_o need_n in_o order_n to_o the_o proof_n of_o our_o thesis_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o catholic_n church_n have_v all_o be_v free_a from_o popery_n in_o all_o age_n or_o in_o any_o age_n since_o the_o apostle_n no_o more_o than_o that_o it_o have_v be_v free_a from_o pride_n ambition_n or_o contention_n but_o yet_o we_o shall_v do_v it_o ex_fw-la abundanti_fw-la the_o religion_n then_o of_o a_o protestant_n be_v christianity_n and_o he_o know_v and_o ow_v no_o other_o which_o be_v call_v the_o protestant_n religion_n as_o cleanse_v from_o popery_n member_n that_o be_v true_a integral_a part_n of_o which_o be_v by_o profession_n we_o profess_v ourselves_o to_o be_v of_o no_o other_o church_n and_o before_o man_n a_o man_n be_v to_o be_v take_v to_o be_v of_o that_o religion_n and_o church_n of_o which_o he_o profess_v himself_o to_o be_v till_o he_o be_v prove_v false_a in_o that_o profession_n if_o a_o papist_n affirm_v himself_o a_o member_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o dispute_v with_o he_o we_o will_v take_v it_o for_o grant_v that_o he_o be_v so_o every_o man_n be_v best_o acquaint_v with_o his_o own_o mind_n and_o fit_a to_o describe_v the_o religion_n which_o he_o own_v so_o that_o two_o thing_n i_o here_o include_v 1._o it_o be_v only_o such_o a_o catholic_n church_n that_o have_v be_v still_o visible_a that_o protestant_n own_o 2._o and_o only_o such_o that_o real_o they_o be_v of_o their_o profession_n be_v valid_a note_v also_o that_o it_o be_v not_o direct_o the_o inexistency_n by_o internal_a invisible_a faith_n that_o be_v in_o question_n among_o we_o or_o that_o i_o mean_v but_o the_o inexistency_n by_o external_a visible_a profession_n bellarmine_n think_v the_o bare_a professor_n that_o be_v wicked_a be_v best_a term_v dead_n member_n and_o the_o true_a professor_n living_n member_n we_o will_v not_o stick_v needless_o on_o word_n we_o take_v the_o live_a member_n only_o to_o be_v in_o strict_a propriety_n member_n but_o sincerity_n and_o hypocrisy_n be_v know_v only_o to_o god_n and_o the_o possessor_n we_o speak_v of_o professor_n as_o professor_n abstractive_o from_o their_o sincerity_n or_o hypocrisy_n have_v be_v visible_a 1._o not_o visible_a to_o man_n in_o its_o internal_a faith_n but_o in_o its_o external_a profession_n 2._o not_o visible_a at_o once_o to_o any_o one_o man_n for_o no_o man_n can_v see_v all_o the_o christian_a world_n at_o once_o but_o visible_a in_o its_o part_n both_o in_o congregation_n and_o individual_a person_n 3._o not_o visible_a in_o the_o soundness_n of_o its_o profess_a faith_n unto_o infidel_n and_o heretic_n for_o they_o can_v see_v that_o faith_n to_o be_v sound_n which_o they_o take_v to_o be_v fabulous_a and_o false_a but_o visible_a in_o the_o soundness_n of_o its_o profess_a faith_n to_o themselves_o that_o know_v the_o soundness_n of_o faith_n 4._o not_o visible_a in_o the_o excellent_a degree_n of_o soundness_n in_o the_o better_a part_n unto_o the_o corrupter_n or_o infirmer_n part_n for_o though_o de_fw-fr facto_fw-la they_o may_v know_v what_o doctrine_n the_o better_a part_n do_v hold_v as_o infidel_n know_v what_o doctrine_n the_o church_n hold_v yet_o they_o know_v it_o not_o to_o be_v true_a and_o sound_a in_o the_o point_n wherein_o they_o differ_v and_o note_v again_o that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o visibility_n of_o every_o accident_n of_o the_o church_n nor_o of_o every_o truth_n or_o duty_n that_o be_v but_o of_o the_o integrity_n of_o religion_n and_o necessary_a only_a ad_fw-la melius_fw-la esse_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la to_o the_o better_o be_v of_o the_o church_n but_o it_o be_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n that_o we_o speak_v of_o last_o it_o be_v the_o body_n and_o not_o the_o head_n who_o visibility_n be_v in_o question_n by_o we_o though_o the_o head_n also_o be_v true_o visible_a in_o heaven_n and_o visus_n or_o see_v to_o the_o most_o excellent_a triumphant_a part_n of_o his_o body_n who_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v his_o courtier_n and_o in_o his_o presence_n and_o as_o much_o see_v on_o earth_n as_o the_o pope_n be_v to_o most_o of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v not_o at_o all_o ever_o since_o the_o day_n of_o christ_n on_o earth_n 1._o but_o not_o still_o in_o one_o and_o the_o same_o place_n on_o earth_n it_o may_v be_v in_o one_o age_n much_o of_o it_o in_o judea_n at_o ephesus_n sardis_n laodicaea_n colosse_n philippi_n and_o other_o part_n of_o asia_n and_o in_o other_o age_n remove_v thence_o either_o whole_o or_o for_o the_o most_o part_n it_o may_v be_v in_o one_o age_n in_o tendu●_n n●bia_n and_o other_o great_a kingdom_n where_o it_o shall_v af●er_o cease_v to_o be_v but_o in_o some_o part_n or_o other_o of_o the_o earth_n it_o have_v be_v still_o 2._o not_o equal_o visible_a in_o all_o time_n and_o place_n of_o the_o earth_n in_o some_o time_n as_o in_o the_o arrian_n prevalency_n it_o be_v so_o oppress_v and_o obscure_v that_o the_o world_n groan_v to_o find_v itself_o turn_v arrian_n and_o the_o arrian_n in_o general_a council_n and_o number_n of_o bishop_n to_o who_o the_o true_a christian_n be_v very_o few_o do_v seem_v to_o carry_v away_o the_o name_n and_o glory_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n so_o that_o in_o their_o eye_n and_o in_o the_o eye_n of_o slander_n by_o that_o be_v of_o neither_o