DEMANDS TO BE PROPOVNDED OF CATHOLICKES TO THE HERETIKES By Richard Bristow Priest and Doctour of Diuinity Taken partly out of his late English booke of Motiues to the Catholicke faith partely out of his printed Latin booke of the same matter For Iohn Heigham With permission Anno 1623. Mat. 16. Aedificabo Ecclesiam meam portae inferi non praeualebunt aduersus eam I will build vp my Church and hell gates shall not preuaile against it Marc. 1.3 Caelum terra transibunt verba autem mea non transibunt Heauen and earth shall passe but my wordes shall not passe Hic libellus est Catholicus elegans apprimè vtilis praelo dignus Ita testor Gulielmus Alanus S. Theol. Duaci Professor Regius DEMANDES TO BE Propounded vnto all Heretikes VNDERSTANDING gentle Reader that many are desirous of my late booke of Motiues to the Catholike faith who notwithstandinge cannot come therby partly because there were but few printed partely because a great parte of those few fell into the Heretickes handes God so ordaining it in testimonium ills for a witnesse vnto them and not minded to repaire the Printe although of som desired I thought good for some satisfaction of the saide and for further propagatiō of the truth to the saluation of my deare deceaued countrimen to set out this litle Pāflet which albeit to some may for the quantity seme but a trifle yet whosoeuer will voutsafe to peruse it shal finde it I trust full of most iust weightie considerations to beleeue the Catholikes of this time also and not the Heretikes The maner of it I haue conceaued by way of Demaundes to be made by Catholickes vnto Heretickes to confound therwith the obstinate and to conuert thē that be more tractable And although in these Demandes I wil be very briefe as only to put the learned in minde of that they haue read or may read and to shew them how to vse it to profite both thē selues others yet shall I touch the matter in euery one of them by the grace of God sufficiently for all sortes But if any man desire a larger declaration of them he shall in my late booke of Motiues for most of thē find enough and for all of them much more in my latine book which work thē only promised he hath since most learnedly performed of the same mater and that somewhat of an other sort in another order thē I did before in English which by these Demaundes may partly be coniectured Beseeching moste hūbly the deceuers if they shall clearely see in their consciences that they can not replie to these Demaundes that then they will for Christes sake vouchsafe to be good to their owne soules and to spare the seely people The 1. Demaund Touching the disputation made at Carthage FIRST then in the name of God let it be demanded of the sayd deceauers or of any other Heretike and especially of them that will seeme to be learned whether they haue not read or heard of Collatio Carthaginensis The conference or disputation made a Carthage in Africke almost twelue hundred years ago betweene Saint Augustine on the one side and his fellowes the other Catholike Bishopes of that Countrey and on the other side the Bishoppes of the Donatistes who were Heretiks likewise of that Countrey Which disputation being then presently taken word for word of diuers swift Notaries was afterwarde more breifly written by S. Augustine himselfe and is at this day to be seene in the seuenth Tome of his workes in his booke called Breuiculus Callationis An abridgment of the Conference If they knowe of the said conference let them then be asked whether the Question there betweene the Catholickes and the Donatists were not the same that is now betweene the Catholicks and the Protestants with al other Heretickes of this time to wit VVhich of vs haue the Church of Christ wherher we or they And because these Hereticks call earnestly for plaine Scripture and make as though they would yeeld most gladly therunto Let them say whether those Catholickes did not bring for their church very many most plaine testimonies of holy Scripture as is more orderly to be seene there in another booke of S. Augustins named De vnitate Ecclesiae Of the Churches vnitie Whether S. Augustine I say and those other Catholickes did not there most manifestly and most mightily out of the Scriptures proue a visible Church begining visibly at Hierusalem lasting visibly not only vnto their time but also vnto our time and euen so continually to the worlds end And whether such a Church make not as much against the Protestantes and all other Heretickes as against the Donatistes and as much for vs that be Catholickes now and for such as shall be Catholickes at any time to the worldes end as for S. Augustine and the other Catholikes of that time because neither the Protestantes nor no other Heretickes no more thā the Donatists haue so lasted or euer shal so laste cōtinually nor no other company of Christians but onely ours Finally if they will say that S. Augustine and his felowes there did not nor coulde not out of the Scripture proue sufficiently such a Church let them be demaunded whether they dare take parte with the Donatistes against those Catholickes and whether they will or be able to answere their Scriptures for and in behalfe of those Heretiks At leastwise because they talke so much of scripture and of onely Scripture whether they be able all the packe of thē as S. Augustine also there requireth of the Donatistes to alleage for their owne Church or Churches so much as one plaine text of Scripture as he there alleageth for our church in maner aforesaide very many and very plaine shewing also there that it cannot erre whether they can bring vs I say in so weightie a matter as wherupon dependeth al our cōtrouersie any one plaine saying of holy Scripture to proue that Christes Church beginning visibly at Hierusalem shoulde so continue but a time and then afterward should vtterly either perish or vanish away that many hundred yeeres after one Luther in Saxonie or one Caluine at Geneua or any other in any other countrey should bring it to life or to light againe The 2. Demaund Building of the Church VVHEREAS Christ his Christians haue besides Schismatikes and Heretikes two other kindes of enemies to wit Panimes Iewes wheras the aunciēt writers haue made many goodly books against those enemies either to confound them or to perswade them that Christ is God as it was then in the first beginning of Christians very necessary for them so to doe Let the learned Protestantes be likewise demaunded whether those christian writers in those books haue not made amongst others this argument to proue that christ is God namely Saint Chrysostome both against the Panimes in his booke named Contra Gentiles demonstratio quod Christus sit Deus A plaine demonstracion against the Gentiles
question yea or no 16. Thinges vnwritten ordered If no Traditions ought to be receiued shew me where those thinges are written which S. Paul promised to set in order at his comming to the Corinthians 1. Cor. 11. for if all thinges were contayned in the written word which the Corinthians had receiued what needed S. Paul to promise to putt the rest in order at his cominge chiefly cōcerning our Lords supper 16. Church not inuisible Seeing Christ saith If thy brother will not heare thee tell it vnto the Church and if he will not heare the Church let him be to thee as a heathen publican and therfore apoints his Church to be iudge in controuersies concerning doctrine and maners how shal a man finde the church if it be inuisible And why affirme yee it so to haue bene seeing no recourse can be had to an inuisible iudge 17. Their Church how long How long esteeme you your Church to haue beene inuisible And during the tyme of the inuisibility therof if ther were any of your Ministers that preached the word of God administred the Sacraments in the realm of Scotland Also who they were that during that time opposed themselues to al heresies and confuted them seeing yee acknowledge with vs sundrie heresies to haue beene euen almost in all ages 18. The Sinagogue visible Seeing Christ hath reiected the Sinagogue of the Iewes erected and builded to himselfe a Church of the Gentills Mat. 28 which he hath promised to asist and maintaine to the end of the world how it is possible that the church of Christ against his said promise hath beene so many yeares inuisible as yee suppose Seeing that the aforsayd Synagogue notwithstanding the reiection thereof hath euer beene visible and is yet at this present in diuers countreyes so that by this your false doctrine yee giue vnto it euen after the reiection of it greater prerogatiue then yee vouchsafe to giue to the church of Christ 19. Tyme of decaying Seeing yee confes with your master Caluin l. 4. Inst. c. 2. n. 3. the Romane Church somtime to haue bene the true Church in what time age suppose yee that it decayed so that the adherents thereof by reasō of idolatrie could not be saued 20 Sucession of theirs Seeing God hath giuen some Apostles some Prophets Ephes 4. Euangelists and Pastors for the gathering to gether of the Saints and for the edification of the body of Christ which is his Church to the end of the world I require you if you be the members of the said body of Christ to shew your Doctors and Pastors who haue succeeded one another since the Apostles with continuance of any Vniforme doctrine as the Catholiques haue already done 21 Condemning herefies Why rayle yee so much against the seate of Rome seeing by that seate all heretiques haue bene conuicted and condemned hier ep 17. ad Dama s Aug. cont Pelag an euident token that it is of God And if yee haue the true Curch as yee alleadge shew that euer any of yours haue opposed your selues against any heresie before our dayes 22 Imitation of heretiques Why follow yee the footsteps of the Donatists who called the chaire of Rome Aug. cōt lit Petil. l. 2. c. 51. the chaire of pistilence Or how could it haue bene possible that the seat of Rome could haue withstood and prenailed against all kindes of perpersecutions since the begining and against so many infidels and heretiques if it had bene the chaire of pestilence as yee say The 23. Sacraments seales If the Sacraments be only outward tokens and seales as yee teache what prerogatiue giue yee to the Sacraments of the gospell Cal. l 4. Inst c. 10.1 aboue the Sacraments of the old law 24. Faith assures not grace Seeing yee teach that faith assureth you of grace receiued before the reception of the Sacraments how can you say but that they be altogether vnprofitable and can giue no fur ther confirmation For as much as where assurance of grace is already no confirmation is required 25. Value of Sacraments Why affirme yee the Sacraments to be of no valor except they be receiued by faith and not withstāding baptise infants who can receiue nothing by faith 26. Necessitie of Baptisme Why abuse yee the people teaching that infants without baptisme obtaine remission of their sinnes by the faith of their parēts sith the faith of the parents cannot hinder them to be borne in originall sinne Rō 3.5 Ephes 2. and to be the sonnes of wrath as S. Paul affirmeth 27. Preachatiue Baptisme Seeing Baptisme Cal. l. 4. Inst ca. 14. n. 4. as yee teache can not consist without preaching and for as much as no preaching was made at the time yee were baptised by the Catholiques what assurance haue yee that yee ar yet baptised Or what doth preaching auaile to alitle infant who wants the vse of vnderstanding 28. Baptisme of Infidels infants Why affirme yee with your master Caluin In Antid cō Trid. that the Sacrament of Baptisme ought only to be ministred to them who haue already obtained the remission of their sinnes Seeing therof it followes most euidently that infants begotten of Infidel parents should not at all be baptised because they cannot receiue remission of their sinnes by the faith of their parents when they are Infidels or vnfaithfull 29. Ceremonies of Baptisme Why reiect yee the ceremonies of Baptisme which alwayes a Dionis Ar. c. 2. c. Hier. haue bene vsed in the church of God since the dayes of the Apostles name what age soeuer you please Or how can yee defend your maister Caluin b l. 4. Inst c. 15 n. 19. who is not ashamed to affirme that in the primitiue church the right lawfull administration of Baptisme was already corrupted 30. Confirmation Why deny yee the Sacrament of Confirmation seing it is so clearly expressed in the Acts of the Apostles Act 1.19 who by the imposition of handes gaue the holy Ghost and also confirmed by all ancient writers yea and as yet retayned by the English Protestants 31. Reall presence If the body of our Lord Iesus Christ be not really in the B. Sacramēt l. 4. Inst. c. 17. n. 10. 14 why affirme yee with your master Caluin that in this Sacrament by the spirit of God those thinges are conioyned together which are seperat to wit the body of Christ which is in heauen with vs who are beneath in earth 32. Receiuing by faith Why affirme yee Cal. l. 4. Inst c. 17. n. 10. that we receiue the body of Christ really by faith if it be not really present in the Sacrament seing our faith cannot make that thinge to be which is not If therfore his body be not there really we cannot beleeue that we receiue it really except we flatly deceiue our selues 33. lifting vp to heauen In what scripture reade yee that which yee profes with your master Caluin
Churches handes Aske them againe Whereas some auncient writers haue bene iustly noted for certaine errors whether our Church may be taxed with any of those errors yea whether our Churches Faith be not the Rule whereby both Protestants and all others safely may and do now read those writers and so most easilye auoide those errors being nothinge moued with the authoritie nor antiquitie of those writers nor with the greate showe of many Scriptures which either those writers or also sundrye olde Heretikes made for their errors knowing vndoubtedly by the Rule of our Churches faith that those Scriptures haue not that meaning being otherwise like to thinke as any indifferent man will beare me recorde that the Scriptures make for those olde errors heresies no lesse yea much more then for Luther or Caluine or any other Heretikes of our time And whether it be not plaine by this that our Church is that Depositorium diues Iren. l. 3. cap. 4. that Riche Storehouse wherein all Truth either by the Apostles or by any other 2. Tim. 1. d 14. hath bene laide vp and wherein euery man that will may without danger and without labour finde what soeuer Truth he seeketh The 38. Demaund Old Heresies VVHETHER on the contrarie side amongst the Protestantes any other Truth be to be found but only such as they receued of vs yea further whereas very many Falsehoodes Errors Heresies haue bene from time to time by the Church noted and condemned whether a greate number of the same Heresies be not now to bee founde amongest the Protestantes So many olde Heresies I saye whereas one were enough to proue theÌ„ heretiks as be enough to proue them almost Apostatates As Against a Epip haer 75. Aug. haer 53. Praying for the dead Against prescripte Fasting daies Against b Aug to 6. de fide con Manich. c. 9.10 Aug. haer 82. Ret l. 2. c. 22. Free wil Against c Merite of Single life Against c the Vow of the same at least tweÌ„ty more And therefore whether as our Church is the storehouse of Truth so their Sinagogue bee not the Sinke of false hood and of Heresie The 29. Demaund VVhere grew their doctrine AGAINE whether the Persons that of olde professed the said pointes of these mens doctrine and were of the Church therfore noted for Heretiks were not also otherwise most notorious Heretickes for certaine other pointes I say confessed also by the Protestants to be heresy As whether a Epip haer 75. Aug. haer 52. Aerius who held with them against praying and offeÌ„ring for the dead and against all the prescript fasting dayes were not besides that also an Arian the like of all their other Parteners Aske them now what it meaneth that their doctrine alwayes hath been found in such naughty ground and with such stinking weedes And contrarywise our doctrine touching the same pointes found also at the same tyme in such as they confesse themselues to haue beene good ground as in S. Augustine in S. Epiphanius and others who did so hold our sayed doctrine that they with the whole Church coÌ„demned Aerius of heresy for denying the same The 40. Demand They neuer afore new VVHETHER of this it follow not that they must needes coÌ„fesse that their church was neuer in the world neuer I say at no tyme before this our tyme Or else let them say whether one that is an Arrian denying Godes Sonne to be Consubstantiall that is to say Of the same substance with his Father may be of their Church Yea also of VViclef and Husse themselues do you aske theÌ„ how they could be of this their Church holding with Pelagius Iustification a Tho. wald to 3. cap. 7. Melanct. hom ad Friden Micon by mans owne merits and also b Heu Syl. in hist Bohe c. 35. that a King or Queene committing any mortall sinne leeseth streight his office and is no longer to be obied The 41. Demaund Studying all Truth VVETHER our Church to keepe safely all Truth in manner aforesayd doe not diligently studdy all Truth her Masters therefore in their Bookes and Schooles teaching all Truth her scholers therfore learning all Truth to defend I say all Truth of Christ against all enemyes against Painyms against Iewes and against all Heresyes And whether Protestantes on the contrary side but a few of theÌ„ God wot do study any more then a few questions of this tyme onely and that so lightly that they be afrayd to reason with common Catholickes Being all rather occupyed about wyuing and thriuing in the world then sincerely and learnedly to defend Religion Or let them tell vs why else our Countrey is so ful of Atheists Achristes and all kinds of most detestable heretikes Aske them whether in their vniuersityes they haue the whole course of Diuinity within a certaine tearme of yeares yea or in Anno Platonis proceding as they do all read ouer Yea whether their Students or Doctours also and Readers can tel you almost what the course of diuinity meaneth And againe aske them who for christian study and increase of godly knowledg fouÌ„ded those vniuersityes builded those Colleges and instituted those degrees of learning whether our Church or theirs and who hath authority to make Doctours of Diuinity whether Kinges and Queens or only Bishops And therefore if our Church haue againe taken from them her graunt and annullated their degrees as it a Bulla Pij 5. Anno 1564. hath done aske them by what title they will clayme the same The 42. Demaunde Vnsent VVHETHER the Preachers euer of the Church of Christ did take vpon them to preach and teach without a IoaÌ„ 20. c. 21 Act. 15. cap. 24. Rom. 10 cap. 15. sending And whether euer any all this while had authority to send forth Teachers but only the Apostles and their Successors and such as receaued it of them And if they say their sending to be extraordinary aske theÌ„ why all this tyme God did so send non other but only to barre such as they be from so saying Aske theÌ„ likewise where then be their Miracles Or whether any also afore Christes Church beganne were sent out of order without the gift of Miracles or of prophecy or of both Finally you may aske them what warrant they haue to hold such an office of a Lay Prince Or how without that office they can pretend to be the true Church of Christ The 43. Demaund Succession VVHETHER it be not euident in the a Act. 1. d 21. 14. d 22. Actes and b Tit. 1. b. 5. Epistles of the Apostles with the c Eus l. 2. cap. 13.15.23 l. 3. c. 2.4.10 Ecclesiasticall historyes of the tymes that followed that the Church once begunne by and in the Apostles did afterward grow on as Christ d Mat 13. c. 14. f. 4. â—6 c. 18. did promise that it should and spread it selfe ouer all places and through all ages by