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world_n catholic_n church_n visible_a 3,605 5 9.5506 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A04207 An attestation of many learned, godly, and famous divines, lightes of religion, and pillars of the Gospell iustifying this doctrine, viz. That the Church-governement ought to bee alwayes with the peoples free consent. Also this; that a true Church vnder the Gospell contayneth no more ordinary congregations but one. In the discourse whereof, specially Doctor Downames & also D. Bilsons chiefe matters in their writings against the same, are answered. Jacob, Henry, 1563-1624. 1613 (1613) STC 14328; ESTC S117858 154,493 335

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be_v it_o be_v superabundant_o recompense_v with_o far_o great_a blessing_n when_o we_o practice_v christ_n ordinance_n and_o true_o this_o must_v be_v so_o be_v such_o a_o bishop_n to_o such_o a_o church_n must_v be_v if_o the_o do._n opinion_n be_v true_a that_o christ_n have_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n appoint_v a_o universal_a church_n visible_a be_v but_o one_o body_n subject_a to_o government_n as_o above_o we_o have_v see_v he_o add_v these_o reason_n may_v suffice_v yea_o true_o they_o suffice_v to_o make_v 10000_o papist_n but_o they_o will_v never_o reclaim_v one_o unto_o this_o we_o may_v add_v that_o the_o very_a nature_n of_o a_o diocesan_n or_o provincial_n church_n and_o of_o a_o universal_a have_v no_o essential_a difference_n in_o they_o the_o very_a form_n and_o order_n of_o administer_a they_o differ_v not_o in_o any_o substantial_a point_n only_o a_o church_n limit_v to_o one_o ordinary_a congregation_n differ_v essential_o from_o a_o universal_a church_n as_o 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ecclesiae_fw-la forniam_fw-la quam_fw-la apostol_n constituerunt_fw-la in_fw-la quà_fw-la tamen_fw-la unicum_fw-la habemus_fw-la verae_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la exemplar_n à_fw-la quo_fw-la si_fw-la quis_fw-la vel_fw-la minimùm_fw-la deflectit_fw-la ab●rat_fw-la i_o will_v not_o press_v you_o so_o precise_o as_o to_o call_v you_o back_o to_o that_o form_n of_o the_o church_n which_o the_o apostle_n set_v in_o which_o form_n notwithstanding_o we_o have_v the_o only_a pattern_n of_o a_o true_a church_n from_o which_o if_o any_o decline_n never_o so_o little_a he_o err_v he_o mean_v be_v will_v take_v it_o well_o at_o the_o cardinal_n hand_n if_o he_o can_v reduce_v he_o to_o the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n which_o 4.4_o which_o instit_fw-la 4.4_o the_o father_n use_v suppose_v about_o 200._o till_o 300._o year_n after_o christ_n &_o after_o for_o some_o while_n howbeit_o he_o absolute_o affirm_v that_o in_o the_o form_n which_o the_o apostle_n set_v in_o the_o scripture_n the_o only_a 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congregation_n there_o all_o reason_n and_o rule_n of_o religion_n will_v require_v christ_n say_a church_n to_o be_v no_o less_o than_o universal_a for_o no_o man_n can_v ●hew_v that_o christ_n say_v church_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v limit_v and_o restrain_v to_o a_o diocese_n or_o province_n only_o test._n no_o limit_v of_o a_o dioces-church_n in_o the_o n._n test._n &_o that_o it_o be_v there_o forbid_a to_o be_v a_o universal_a church_n our_o adversary_n seem_v not_o to_o desire_v to_o show_v it_o for_o as_o they_o weak_o and_o slight_o affirm_v diocesan_n and_o provincial_n church_n to_o be_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n yea_o even_o against_o grammar_n so_o they_o open_o acknowledge_v that_o christ_n have_v upon_o earth_n 126.132_o earth_n see_v before_o pag_n 112._o &_o hook_n 126.132_o one_o whole_a church_n be_v but_o one_o body_n subject_a to_o government_n so_o that_o they_o yield_v the_o church_n not_o to_o be_v limit_v to_o a_o diocese_n or_o a_o province_n and_o what_o can_v the_o papist_n wish_v more_o they_o will_v never_o desire_v more_o to_o be_v yield_v they_o from_o protestant_n if_o we_o stick_v to_o our_o own_o word_n then_o to_o acknowledge_v all_o christ_n diocesan_n and_o provincial_n church_n and_o therefore_o our_o own_o in_o england_n to_o be_v but_o membrall_a church_n not_o entire_a and_o independent_a not_o endue_v with_o authority_n for_o the_o government_n of_o themselves_o immediate_o from_o christ_n but_o to_o be_v part_n and_o dependent_n of_o one_o whole_a church_n be_v one_o body_n subject_a to_o government_n for_o they_o we_o must_v by_o christ_n ordinance_n refer_v ourselves_o for_o religion_n and_o spiritual_a government_n to_o that_o one_o body_n visible_a whereof_o we_o say_v we_o be_v a_o part_n here_o a_o hundred_o 179._o hundred_o before_o pag._n 179._o difficulty_n will_v come_v upon_o us._n the_o doct._n acknowledge_v also_o 3.5_o also_o def._n 3.5_o a_o high_a senate_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n for_o the_o government_n of_o it_o and_o certain_o in_o all_o true_a reason_n there_o must_v be_v so_o for_o there_o must_v be_v by_o christ_n ordinance_n a_o correspondent_a government_n to_o the_o body_n of_o every_o church_n which_o be_v of_o christ_n master_n hooker_n true_o acknowledge_v it_o say_v there_o 3.132_o there_o hook_n 3.132_o must_v be_v a_o correspondent_a church-polirie_a to_o every_o visible_a church_n but_o doct._n downame_n will_v perhaps_o turn_v this_o to_o a_o universal_a council_n or_o synod_n if_o he_o do_v it_o be_v yet_o a_o simple_a evasion_n first_o i_o note_v 178._o note_v pag._n 113._o &_o 178._o before_o that_o there_o never_o be_v right_a universal_a synod_n how_o so_o ever_o some_o have_v be_v so_o name_v but_o if_o any_o synod_n have_v be_v hold_v for_o universal_a yet_o such_o be_v exceed_o rare_a and_o extraordinary_a in_o deed_n in_o these_o day_n not_o to_o be_v have_v but_o the_o church_n body_n be_v ordinary_a and_o continue_v always_o it_o must_v have_v a_o correspondent_a government_n as_o be_v say_v that_o be_v ordinary_a daily_a and_o continual_a and_o this_o be_v it_o which_o we_o speak_v of_o if_o the_o doctor_n will_v grant_v such_o a_o high_a senate_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n that_o be_v ordinary_a constant_a and_o daily_o exercise_v government_n to_o this_o constant_a body_n them_z what_o be_v this_o else_o but_o a_o college_n of_o cardinal_n and_o in_o every_o such_o consistory_n or_o senate_n i_o hope_v he_o will_v grant_v a_o precedent_n yea_o constant_a and_o during_o life_n not_o for_o a_o week_n or_o a_o short_a time_n and_o what_o be_v he_o but_o a_o pope_n neither_o be_v it_o material_a whether_o this_o precedent_n be_v subject_a to_o his_o senate_n or_o not_o which_o he_o idle_o cast_v in_o a_o little_a 6._o little_a pag._n 6._o after_o many_o papist_n do_v hold_v the_o pope_n to_o be_v inferior_a to_o his_o council_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v very_a papist_n and_o the_o doct._n hold_v a_o provincial_n bishop_n to_o be_v by_o divine_a ordinance_n superior_a to_o his_o provincial_n synod_n why_o then_o may_v not_o the_o universal_a bishop_n be_v superior_a likewise_o to_o his_o universal_a whether_o synod_n or_o senate_n without_o question_n he_o ought_v to_o be_v as_o well_o thus_o no_o marvaill_n if_o popish_a walsingham_n who_o confer_v with_o this_o doctor_n go_v from_o he_o worse_o than_o he_o come_v for_o hold_v such_o ground_n he_o can_v never_o make_v any_o sufficient_a defence_n against_o popery_n as_o i_o have_v say_v his_o four_o other_o reason_n of_o difference_n between_o a_o provincial_n and_o a_o universal_a bishop_n which_o he_o set_v down_o pag._n 6._o be_v as_o frivolous_a as_o that_o which_o be_v most_o first_o he_o allege_v calvins_n authority_n but_o what_o be_v that_o to_o a_o papist_n or_o to_o one_o tempt_v that_o way_n and_o yet_o he_o abuse_v calvin_n also_o for_o though_o calvin_n say_v 4.6.2_o say_v instit_fw-la 4.6.2_o there_o be_v not_o a_o like_a reason_n of_o one_o nation_n and_o of_o the_o whole_a world_n yet_o he_o mean_v this_o upon_o supposition_n that_o be_v if_o a_o nation_n have_v god_n word_n for_o their_o warrant_n as_o the_o jew_n have_v &_o if_o the_o whole_a world_n have_v not_o divine_a warrant_n as_o the_o catholic_a visible_a church_n now_o in_o deed_n have_v not_o then_o there_o be_v not_o the_o like_a reason_n between_o a_o nation_n and_o the_o whole_a world_n but_o otherwise_o very_o there_o be_v for_o a_o bishop_n to_o both_o be_v necessary_a if_o both_o have_v god_n ordinance_n for_o itself_o a_o bishop_n to_o neither_o be_v lawful_a if_o neither_o have_v god_n ordinance_n and_o this_o calvin_n himself_o plain_o signifi_v in_o sect._n 9_o say_v nihil_fw-la proficiunt_fw-la papistae_fw-la nisi_fw-la prius_fw-la ostender_n in_o it_o hoc_fw-la ministerium_fw-la vniversale_fw-la 〈◊〉_d christo_fw-la esse_fw-la ordinatum_fw-la note_v by_o this_o that_o it_o be_v christ_n ordinance_n that_o make_v the_o difference_n between_o a_o nation_n and_o the_o whole_a world_n not_o the_o odds_n of_o the_o circuit_n but_o this_o the_o do._n whole_o suppress_v as_o also_o calvins_n second_o answer_n to_o the_o papist_n immediate_o follow_v in_o the_o former_a place_n say_v he_o est_fw-la altera_fw-la citamnum_fw-la ratio_fw-la cut_n illud_fw-la judaicum_fw-la in_fw-la imitationem_fw-la trahi_fw-la non_fw-la debeat_fw-la cease_v the_o high_a priest_n be_v a_o figure_n of_o christ_n which_o now_o cease_v summum_fw-la illum_fw-la pontificem_fw-la typum_fw-la fuisse_fw-la christi_fw-la nemo_fw-la ignorat_fw-la nune_fw-fr traslato_fw-la sacerdotio_fw-la ius_fw-la illud_fw-la trasferri_fw-la convenit_fw-la wherefore_o calvin_n reject_v the_o jew_n high_a priest_n national_a ministry_n and_o deny_v the_o use_n of_o the_o like_a now_o for_o another_o reason_n which_o the_o doct._n also_o dissemble_v so_o that_o his_o abuse_n of_o calvin_n herein_o be_v manifest_a again_o these_o last_o mention_v word_n of_o calvin_n do_v confute_v the_o do._n in_o another_o place_n where_o to_o resist_v 5._o resist_v reas._n for_o reform_v pag._n 5._o i_o 25._o i_o def._n 25._o he_o deny_v the_o jew_n high_a priest_n government_n to_o have_v be_v a_o type_n second_o the_o doct._n make_v this_o difference_n between_o a_o provincial_n and_o a_o universal_a bishop_n say_v he_o no_o mortal_a man_n be_v able_a to_o wield_v the_o government_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n it_o be_v true_a nor_o yet_o of_o a_o province_n nor_o of_o a_o diocese_n for_o the_o least_o pastor_n of_o these_o shall_v be_v a_o huge_a pluralist_n and_o nonresident_a 3_o see_v pag._n 150_o and_o reas._n for_o refor_n reas._o 3_o which_o be_v contrary_a to_o christ_n as_o before_o have_v be_v show_v the_o cause_n then_o of_o all_o this_o unablenes_n be_v the_o want_n of_o christ_n ordinance_n which_o to_o both_o be_v alike_o as_o i_o have_v say_v and_o so_o their_o unablenes_n be_v both_o alike_o otherwise_o both_o shall_v be_v able_a and_o sufficient_a for_o such_o a_o charge_n well_o enough_o the_o doctor_n three_o exception_n be_v as_o the_o last_o before_o say_v he_o it_o will_v prove_v dangerous_a and_o pernicious_a if_o that_o one_o head_n shall_v fall_v into_o error_n so_o also_o it_o be_v dangerous_a and_o pernicious_a to_o many_o thousand_o when_o a_o provincial_n bishop_n fall_v into_o error_n yet_o the_o d._n will_v not_o hold_v this_o a_o reason_n to_o prove_v he_o simple_o unlawful_a and_o therefore_o neither_o be_v it_o for_o the_o universal_a special_o see_v a_o provincial_n bishop_n can_v not_o make_v unity_n a_o universal_a may_v as_o i_o have_v say_v his_o four_o exception_n be_v likewise_o a_o very_a fancy_n viz._n that_o it_o be_v infinite_a trouble_n &_o much_o inconvenience_n to_o repair_v from_o all_o part_n of_o the_o world_n to_o one_o place_n there_o be_v no_o such_o matter_n if_o christ_n ordinance_n for_o it_o be_v manifest_a if_o any_o inconvenience_n may_v seem_v therein_o to_o
cut_v off_o and_o excommunicate_a from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n he_o can_v not_o after_o that_o have_v any_o power_n as_o derive_v from_o they_o to_o make_v minister_n nor_o to_o do_v any_o other_o bishoplie_o act_n second_o we_o all_o know_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v the_o very_a antichrist_n chief_o in_o respect_n of_o their_o clergy_n and_o spiritual_a government_n and_o most_o chief_o of_o all_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o pope_n from_o who_o all_o the_o rest_n as_o from_o the_o head_n do_v take_v their_o power_n and_o authority_n now_o shall_v we_o say_v that_o very_a antichrist_n can_v have_v power_n from_o christ_n to_o make_v minister_n or_o that_o we_o can_v have_v a_o lawful_a ministry_n derive_v from_o those_o who_o have_v their_o power_n only_o from_o he_o it_o can_v not_o be_v 15._o be_v 2._o cor._n 6.14_o 15._o what_o communion_n have_v light_a with_o darkness_n what_o concord_n have_v christ_n with_o belial_n and_o so_o what_o have_v christ_n to_o do_v with_o antichrist_n nothing_o at_o all_o thus_o than_o our_o conscience_n can_v have_v no_o assurance_n we_o can_v not_o have_v confidence_n in_o such_o estate_n of_o the_o ministry_n but_o certain_o christ_n true_a minister_n among_o we_o in_o england_n have_v a_o better_a original_a they_o this_o wherefore_o this_o answer_n of_o our_o state_n protestant_n must_v needs_o be_v false_a yet_o in_o this_o answer_n who_o see_v not_o how_o the_o papist_n do_v rejoice_v triumph_n and_o insult_v who_o see_v not_o how_o by_o this_o they_o be_v encourage_v strengthen_v and_o multiply_v among_o we_o exceed_o true_o it_o will_v pity_v a_o man_n heart_n to_o behold_v how_o this_o one_o point_n put_v life_n into_o thousand_o to_o stand_v up_o against_o christ_n gospel_n &_o the_o liberty_n of_o their_o country_n also_o for_o when_o they_o hear_v ourselves_o open_o to_o ascribe_v to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o to_o their_o mean_n such_o a_o gift_n of_o grace_n even_o that_o which_o be_v our_o glory_n even_o the_o holy_a instrument_n of_o our_o faith_n to_o salvation_n for_o so_o be_v our_o ministry_n they_o will_v say_v if_o the_o branch_n be_v holy_a the_o root_n be_v more_o if_o the_o river_n be_v sweet_a the_o head-spring_n be_v delicious_a and_o so_o how_o can_v it_o be_v choose_v but_o the_o papist_n thus_o will_v be_v grace_v and_o get_v great_a advantage_n among_o we_o many_o here_o have_v another_o refuge_n but_o that_o also_o help_v nothing_o say_v they_o as_o popish_a baptism_n be_v so_o far_o acknowledge_v by_o we_o away_o the_o last_o refuge_n of_o our_o adversary_n take_v away_o as_o that_o with_o it_o only_o we_o be_v hold_v to_o be_v sufficient_o baptize_v &_o not_o to_o need_v baptise_v again_o when_o we_o come_v from_o they_o to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n so_o likewise_o we_o may_v acknowledge_v the_o popish_a ordination_n to_o the_o ministry_n thus_o far_o and_o yet_o nevertheless_o condemn_v their_o church_n and_o separate_v from_o they_o i_o answer_v the_o case_n be_v nothing_o like_o between_o baptism_n the_o sign_n of_o our_o initiation_n in_o christ_n and_o the_o call_v to_o the_o ministry_n in_o the_o word_n there_o be_v express_a warrant_n for_o not_o repeat_v the_o sign_n of_o our_o initiation_n in_o christ_n which_o of_o old_a be_v circumcision_n and_o baptism_n now_o be_v the_o same_o though_o minister_v by_o a_o false_a ministry_n and_o church_n as_o we_o may_v see_v in_o the_o 6.21_o the_o 2._o chron._n 30.11.18_o &_o 35.17.18_o ez●_n 6.21_o not_o recircumcise_n of_o such_o jew_n as_o have_v receive_v that_o sign_n in_o the_o apostasy_n of_o israel_n and_o turn_v from_o thesame_a to_o the_o truth_n but_o there_o be_v no_o warrant_n at_o all_o in_o god_n word_n for_o any_o to_o retain_v the_o outward_a call_v to_o the_o ministry_n or_o to_o stand_v in_o that_o power_n and_o authority_n which_o be_v derive_v from_o such_o a_o church_n there_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n can_v be_v show_v in_o all_o god_n book_n therefore_o we_o may_v not_o conclude_v the_o like_a in_o this_o matter_n of_o ordination_n to_o the_o ministry_n which_o may_v be_v do_v for_o not_o repeat_v of_o baptism_n for_o by_o god_n word_n ordination_n may_v be_v repeat_v yea_o certain_o after_o a_o ministry_n receive_v in_o christ_n true_a church_n much_o more_o after_o it_o have_v be_v receive_v in_o a_o false_a church_n so_o that_o these_o two_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n be_v nothing_o like_o in_o this_o point_n wherefore_o out_o of_o question_n ordination_n to_o the_o ministry_n as_o it_o be_v derive_v from_o antichrist_n must_v be_v whole_o revounce_v of_o every_o faithful_a man_n and_o may_v be_v as_o be_v say_v renew_v and_o repeat_v in_o christ_n true_a church_n as_o occasion_n serve_v at_o rome_n there_o be_v in_o it_o both_o a_o impiety_n and_o a_o nullity_n in_o their_o administer_a of_o baptism_n there_o be_v not_o a_o nullity_n altogether_o as_o in_o that_o correspondent_a example_n of_o israel_n in_o apostasy_n before_o allege_v it_o well_o appear_v and_o this_o be_v sufficient_a for_o this_o though_o other_o answer_n may_v be_v give_v also_o wherefore_o this_o remain_v that_o when_o we_o grant_v the_o descent_n of_o our_o ministry_n in_o england_n to_o come_v lineal_o from_o the_o church_n and_o pope_n of_o rome_n which_o we_o must_v grant_v will_v we_o will_v we_o if_o wedeny_v it_o to_o arise_v essential_o from_o the_o christian_a people_n consent_n in_o each_o congregation_n all_o the_o world_n see_v that_o we_o give_v the_o pope_n a_o main_a advantage_n against_o we_o and_o we_o put_v into_o his_o hand_n a_o strong_a engine_n to_o draw_v we_o back_o again_o unto_o he_o which_o also_o he_o effect_v daily_o upon_o many_o among_o we_o as_o woeful_a experience_n show_v in_o our_o land_n yea_o even_o upon_o some_o of_o my_o very_a friend_n and_o near_a acquaintance_n beside_o this_o there_o be_v another_o point_n of_o the_o church_n government_n unity_n the_o cause_v of_o unity_n namely_o their_o jurisdiction_n in_o compound_v schism_n in_o make_v peace_n and_o unity_n and_o consent_n among_o christian_a people_n which_o be_v ascribe_v as_o proper_a to_o diocesan_n and_o provincial_n bishop_n as_o they_o in_o england_n do_v say_v it_o be_v and_z as_o etc._n as_o def._n 3.36_o etc._n etc._n d._n downame_n with_o great_a vehemency_n defend_v certain_o true_a reason_n will_v carry_v it_o further_o it_o can_v not_o possible_o stay_v there_o this_o will_v serve_v a_o pope_n turn_n a_o great_a deal_n better_o and_o to_o such_o a_o one_o it_o belong_v in_o deed_n as_o a_o very_a true_a and_o forcible_a ground_n for_o his_o universal_a government_n over_o all_o christian_n in_o the_o world_n if_o there_o be_v any_o divine_a and_o evangelicall_n truth_n in_o it_o at_o all_o but_o there_o be_v no_o truth_n in_o it_o because_o this_o be_v no_o divine_a and_o evangelical_n way_n for_o unity_n in_o religion_n viz._n to_o constitute_v one_o visible_a head_n with_o absolute_a power_n of_o spiritual_a government_n whether_o diocesan_n or_o provincial_n or_o universal_a or_o to_o take_v from_o the_o christian_a people_n their_o free_a consent_n there_o be_v not_o in_o the_o gospel_n any_o such_o mean_n to_o unity_n it_o be_v a_o humane_a policy_n a_o carnal_a device_n it_o be_v no_o institution_n of_o christ_n jesus_n unity_n god_n write_v word_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o unity_n who_o in_o his_o word_n and_o by_o his_o word_n with_o the_o help_n of_o the_o ministry_n therein_o ordain_v provide_v sufficient_o for_o true_a peace_n and_o holy_a unity_n among_o all_o his_o people_n for_o he_o say_v 28.29_o say_v mat._n 28.29_o you_o err_v not_o know_v the_o scripture_n and_o 5.39_o and_o joh._n 5.39_o search_v the_o scripture_n for_o they_o be_v they_o which_o testify_v of_o i_o and_o 17._o and_o chap._n 14.6_o rom._n 16_o 17._o i_o be_o the_o way_n the_o truth_n and_o the_o life_n likewise_o the_o apostle_n testify_v that_o those_o be_v the_o maker_n of_o schism_n and_o division_n who_o teach_v and_o hold_v any_o thing_n beside_o the_o doctrine_n learn_v from_o the_o apostle_n so_o that_o indeed_o the_o mean_n appoint_v of_o god_n to_o make_v unity_n in_o the_o church_n be_v god_n word_n and_o not_o one_o superior_a overrule_a minister_n over_o many_o distinct_a ordinary_a congregation_n which_o the_o word_n know_v not_o but_o in_o truth_n such_o a_o one_o be_v the_o very_a proper_a cause_n of_o dissension_n and_o schism_n for_o he_o not_o willing_a to_o submit_v to_o god_n word_n by_o his_o power_n draw_v many_o with_o he_o &_o yet_o he_o can_v light_o prevail_v with_o all_o whereupon_o follow_v dissension_n and_o schism_n and_o then_o he_o with_o his_o company_n be_v the_o strong_a in_o the_o world_n may_v cry_v out_o loud_a against_o those_o few_o that_o dissent_v from_o he_o that_o they_o be_v