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world_n catholic_n church_n universal_a 3,343 5 9.1066 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A49714 A relation of the conference between William Laud, late Lord Arch-bishop of Canterbury, and Mr. Fisher the Jesuite by the command of King James, of ever-blessed memory : with an answer to such exceptions as A.C. takes against it. Laud, William, 1573-1645.; Fisher, John, 1569-1641. 1673 (1673) Wing L594; ESTC R3539 402,023 294

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to_o the_o contrary_a make_v the_o error_n appear_v and_o until_o thereupon_o another_o council_n of_o equal_a authority_n do_v reverse_v it_o well!_o i_o say_v it_o again_o but_o be_v there_o any_o one_o word_n of_o i_o in_o the_o caution_n that_o speak_v of_o our_o know_v of_o this_o error_n sure_o not_o one_o that_o be_v a._n c_n addition_n now_o suppose_v a_o general_n council_n actual_o err_v in_o some_o point_n of_o divine_a truth_n i_o hope_v it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o this_o error_n must_v be_v so_o gross_a as_o that_o forthwith_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v know_v to_o private_a man_n and_o doubtless_o till_o they_o know_v it_o obedience_n must_v be_v yield_v nay_o when_o they_o know_v it_o if_o the_o error_n be_v not_o manifest_o against_o fundamental_a verity_n in_o which_o case_n a_o general_n council_n can_v easy_o err_v i_o will_v have_v a._n c._n and_o all_o wise_a man_n consider_v whether_o external_n obedience_n be_v not_o even_o then_o to_o be_v yield_v for_o if_o 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and_o malice_n with_o obstinacy_n which_o some_o have_v against_o the_o know_a truth_n and_o all_o or_o some_o of_o these_o in_o different_a degree_n in_o every_o particular_a man_n and_o that_o in_o the_o whole_a latitude_n of_o mankind_n from_o the_o most_o wise_a and_o learned_a in_o the_o school_n of_o christ_n to_o the_o simple_a idiot_n that_o have_v be_v so_o happy_a as_o to_o be_v initiate_v into_o the_o faith_n by_o baptism_n now_o the_o church_n have_v not_o this_o knowledge_n of_o all_o particular_n man_n and_o condition_n nor_o can_v she_o apply_v the_o condition_n to_o the_o men._n and_o therefore_o can_v teach_v just_a how_o far_o every_o man_n must_v believe_v as_o it_o relate_v to_o the_o possibility_n or_o impossibility_n of_o his_o salvation_n in_o every_o particular_a and_o that_o which_o the_o church_n can_v teach_v man_n can_v learn_v of_o she_o she_o can_v teach_v the_o foundation_n and_o man_n be_v happy_a if_o they_o will_v learn_v it_o and_o the_o church_n more_o happy_a will_v she_o teach_v nothing_o but_o that_o as_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n for_o certain_o nothing_o but_o that_o be_v necessary_a now_o than_o whereas_o after_o all_o this_o the_o jesuit_n tell_v we_o that_o f._n upon_o this_o and_o the_o precedent_a conference_n the_o lady_n rest_v in_o judgement_n full_o satisfy_v as_o she_o tell_v a_o confident_a friend_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n faith_n yet_o upon_o frailty_n and_o fear_n to_o offend_v the_o king_n she_o yield_v to_o go_v to_o church_n for_o which_o she_o be_v after_o very_o sorry_a as_o some_o of_o her_o friend_n can_v testify_v b._n §_o 39_o num._n 1_o this_o be_v all_o personal_a and_o how_o that_o honourable_a lady_n be_v then_o settle_v in_o conscience_n how_o in_o judgement_n i_o know_v nor_o this_o i_o think_v be_v make_v clear_a enough_o that_o that_o which_o you_o say_v in_o this_o and_o the_o precedent_a conference_n can_v settle_v neither_o unless_o in_o some_o that_o be_v settle_v or_o settle_v before_o as_o little_o do_v i_o know_v what_o she_o tell_v any_o confident_a friend_n of_o she_o approve_v the_o roman_a cause_n no_o more_o whether_o it_o be_v frailty_n or_o fear_v or_o other_o motive_n that_o make_v she_o yield_v to_o go_v to_o church_n nor_o how_o sorry_a she_o be_v for_o it_o nor_o who_o can_v testify_v that_o sorrow_n this_o i_o be_o sure_a of_o if_o she_o repent_v and_o god_n forgive_v she_o other_o sin_n she_o will_v more_o easy_o be_v able_a to_o answer_v for_o her_o come_n to_o church_n than_o for_o she_o leave_v of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o follow_v the_o superstition_n and_o error_n which_o the_o roman_a church_n have_v add_v in_o point_n of_o faith_n and_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n for_o the_o lady_n be_v then_o live_v when_o i_o answer_v thus_o num._n 2_o now_o
whereas_o i_o say_v the_o lady_n will_v far_v more_o easy_o be_v able_a to_o answer_v for_o her_o come_n to_o church_n than_o for_o she_o leave_v the_o 73._o church_n of_o england_n to_o this_o a._n c._n except_v and_o say_v that_o i_o neither_o prove_v nor_o can_v prove_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o one_o persuade_v especial_o as_o the_o lady_n be_v to_o go_v to_o the_o protestant_a church_n there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o cunning_a and_o as_o much_o malice_n in_o this_o passage_n but_o i_o shall_v easy_o pluck_v the_o sting_n out_o of_o the_o tail_n of_o this_o wisp_n and_o first_o i_o have_v prove_v it_o already_o through_o this_o whole_a discourse_n and_o therefore_o can_v prove_v it_o that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v a_o orthodox_n church_n and_o therefore_o with_o the_o same_o labour_n it_o be_v prove_v that_o man_n may_v lawful_o go_v unto_o it_o and_o communicate_v with_o it_o for_o so_o a_o man_n not_o only_o may_v but_o aught_o to_o do_v with_o a_o orthodox_n church_n and_o a_o romanist_n may_v communicate_v with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n without_o any_o offence_n in_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n thereby_o incur_v but_o if_o his_o conscience_n through_o misinformation_n check_v at_o it_o he_o shall_v do_v well_o in_o that_o case_n rather_o to_o inform_v his_o conscience_n than_o forsake_v any_o orthodox_n church_n whatsoever_o second_o a._n c._n tell_v i_o plain_o that_o i_o can_v prove_v that_o a_o man_n so_o persuade_v as_o the_o lady_n be_v may_v go_v to_o the_o protestant_a church_n that_o be_v that_o a_o roman_a catholic_a may_n not_o go_v to_o the_o protestant_a church_n why_o i_o never_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v that_o a_o roman_a catholic_a being_n and_o continue_v such_o may_v against_o his_o conscience_n go_v to_o the_o protestant_a church_n for_o these_o word_n a_o man_n persuade_v as_o the_o lady_n be_v be_v a._n c_n word_n they_o be_v not_o i_o i_o be_v not_o simple_o that_o the_o lady_n may_v or_o that_o she_o may_v not_o but_o comparative_a they_o be_v that_o she_o may_v more_o easy_o answer_v to_o god_n for_o come_v to_o than_o for_o go_v from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o that_o be_v every_o way_n most_o true_a for_o in_o this_o doubtful_a time_n of_o she_o when_o upon_o my_o reason_n give_v she_o go_v again_o to_o church_n when_o yet_o soon_o after_o as_o you_o say_v at_o least_o she_o be_v sorry_a for_o it_o i_o say_v at_o this_o time_n she_o be_v in_o heart_n and_o resolution_n a_o romano_n catholic_a or_o she_o be_v not_o if_o she_o be_v not_o as_o it_o seem_v by_o she_o doubt_v she_o be_v not_o then_o full_o resolve_v than_o my_o speech_n be_v most_o true_a that_o she_o may_v more_o easy_o answer_n god_n for_o come_v to_o service_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n than_o for_o leave_v it_o for_o a_o protestant_n she_o have_v be_v and_o for_o aught_o i_o know_v at_o the_o end_n of_o this_o conference_n so_o she_o be_v and_o than_o it_o be_v no_o sin_n in_o itself_o to_o come_v to_o a_o orthodox_n church_n nor_o no_o sin_n against_o her_o conscience_n she_o continue_v a_o protestant_n for_o aught_o which_o then_o appear_v to_o i_o but_o if_o she_o than_o be_v a_o roman_a catholic_a as_o the_o jesuit_n and_o a._n c._n seem_v confident_a she_o be_v yet_o my_o speech_n be_v true_a too_o for_o than_o she_o may_v more_o easy_o answer_n god_n for_o come_v to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n which_o be_v orthodox_n and_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o be_v superstitious_a than_o by_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o england_n communicate_v with_o all_o the_o superstition_n of_o rome_n now_o the_o cunning_a and_o the_o malignity_n of_o a._n c._n lie_v in_o this_o he_o will_v fain_o have_v the_o world_n think_v that_o i_o be_o so_o indifferent_a in_o religion_n as_o that_o i_o do_v maintain_v the_o lady_n be_v conscientious_o persuade_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o romish_a doctrine_n may_v yet_o against_o both_o her_o conscience_n and_o against_o open_a and_o avow_a profession_n come_v to_o the_o protestant_a church_n num._n 3_o nevertheless_o in_o hope_n his_o cunning_a malice_n will_v not_o be_v discover_v against_o this_o his_o own_o sense_n that_o be_v and_o not_o i_o he_o bring_v divers_a reason_n as_o first_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o one_o affect_v as_o that_o lady_n be_v that_o be_v for_o one_o that_o be_v resolve_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n to_o go_v to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n there_o and_o in_o that_o manner_n to_o serve_v and_o worship_n god_n because_o say_v a._n c._n that_o be_v to_o halt_v on_o both_o side_n to_o serve_v two_o master_n ●3_n and_o to_o dissemble_v with_o god_n and_o the_o world_n true_o i_o say_v the_o same_o thing_n with_o he_o and_o that_o therefore_o neither_o may_v a_o protestant_n that_o be_v resolve_v in_o conscience_n that_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o true_a faith_n be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n go_v to_o the_o romish_a church_n there_o and_o in_o that_o manner_n to_o serve_v and_o worship_v god_n neither_o need_v i_o give_v other_o answer_n because_o a._n c._n urge_v this_o against_o his_o own_o fiction_n not_o my_o assertion_n yet_o since_o he_o will_v so_o do_v i_o shall_v give_v a_o particular_a answer_n to_o each_o of_o they_o and_o to_o this_o first_o reason_n of_o he_o i_o say_v thus_o that_o to_o believe_v religion_n after_o one_o sort_n and_o to_o practice_v it_o after_o another_o and_o that_o in_o the_o main_a point_n of_o worship_n the_o sacrament_n and_o invocation_n be_v to_o halt_v on_o both_o side_n to_o serve_v two_o master_n and_o to_o dissemble_v with_o god_n and_o the_o world_n and_o other_o than_o this_o i_o never_o teach_v nor_o ever_o say_v that_o which_o may_v infer_v the_o contrary_a but_o a._n c._n give_v i_o leave_v to_o tell_v you_o your_o fellow_n jesuit_n 1616._o azorius_fw-la affirm_v this_o in_o express_a term_n and_o what_o do_v you_o think_v can_v he_o prove_v it_o nay_o not_o azorius_fw-la only_a but_o other_o priest_n and_o jesuit_n here_o in_o england_n either_o teach_v some_o of_o their_o proselyte_n or_o else_o some_o of_o they_o learn_v it_o without_o teach_v that_o though_o they_o be_v persuade_v as_o this_o lady_n be_v that_o be_v though_o they_o be_v roman_a catholic_n yet_o either_o to_o gain_v honour_n or_o save_v their_o purse_n they_o may_v go_v to_o the_o protestant_a church_n just_a as_o the_o jesuit_n here_o say_v the_o lady_n do_v out_o of_o frailty_n and_o fear_n to_o offend_v the_o king_n therefore_o i_o pray_v a._n c._n if_o this_o be_v gross_a dissimulation_n both_o with_o god_n and_o the_o world_n speak_v to_o your_o fellow_n to_o leave_v persuade_v or_o practise_v of_o it_o and_o leave_v man_n in_o the_o profession_n of_o religion_n to_o be_v as_o they_o seem_v or_o to_o seem_v and_o appear_v as_o they_o be_v let_v we_o have_v no_o mask_n wear_v here_o a._n c_n second_o reason_n why_o one_o so_o persuade_v as_o that_o lady_n be_v may_v not_o go_v to_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v because_o that_o be_v outward_o to_o profess_v 73._o a_o religion_n in_o conscience_n know_v to_o be_v false_a to_o this_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o if_o this_o reason_n be_v true_a it_o concern_v all_o man_n as_o well_o as_o those_o that_o be_v persuade_v as_o the_o lady_n be_v for_o no_o man_n may_v outward_o profess_v a_o religion_n in_o conscience_n know_v to_o be_v false_a for_o with_o the_o heart_n man_n believe_v to_o righteousness_n and_o with_o the_o mouth_n he_o confess_v to_o salvation_n rom._n 10._o now_o to_o his_o own_o 10._o salvation_n no_o man_n can_v confess_v a_o know_v false_a religion_n second_o if_o the_o religion_n of_o the_o protestant_n be_v in_o conscience_n a_o know_a false_a religion_n than_o the_o romanist_n religion_n be_v so_o too_o for_o their_o religion_n be_v the_o same_o nor_o do_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o protestant_n set_v up_o a_o different_a religion_n for_o the_o christian_a religion_n be_v the_o same_o to_o both_o but_o they_o differ_v in_o the_o same_o religion_n and_o the_o difference_n be_v in_o certain_a gross_a corruption_n to_o the_o very_a endanger_n of_o salvation_n which_o each_o side_n say_v the_o other_o be_v guilty_a of_o three_o the_o reason_n give_v be_v most_o untrue_a for_o it_o may_v appear_v by_o all_o the_o former_a discourse_n to_o any_o indifferent_a reader_n that_o religion_n as_o it_o be_v profess_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v near_a of_o any_o church_n now_o in_o be_v to_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o therefore_o not_o a_o religion_n know_v to_o be_v false_a and_o this_o i_o both_o do_v and_o can_v prove_v be_v not_o the_o deafness_n of_o the_o asp_n upon_o the_o
necessary_a it_o be_v not_o that_o therefore_o or_o for_o prevention_n thereof_o there_o shall_v be_v such_o a_o certainty_n a_o infallible_a certainty_n in_o these_o thing_n for_o he_o understand_v himself_o well_o that_o say_v oportet_fw-la esse_fw-la haereses_fw-la 1_o cor._n 11._o there_o must_v 19_o there_o will_v be_v heresy_n and_o wheresoever_o that_o necessity_n lie_v it_o be_v out_o of_o doubt_n enough_o to_o prove_v that_o christ_n never_o leave_v such_o a_o infallible_a assurance_n as_o be_v able_a to_o prevent_v they_o or_o such_o a_o master_v power_n in_o his_o church_n as_o be_v able_a to_o over-awe_n they_o but_o they_o come_v with_o their_o oportet_fw-la about_o they_o and_o they_o rise_v and_o spring_n in_o all_o age_n very_o strange_o but_o in_o particular_a for_o that_o which_o first_o cause_v and_o now_o continue_v the_o loss_n of_o unity_n in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n as_o i_o make_v no_o doubt_n but_o that_o the_o pride_n of_o man_n be_v one_o cause_n so_o yet_o can_v i_o not_o think_v that_o pride_n be_v the_o adequate_a and_o sole_a cause_n thereof_o but_o in_o part_n pride_n cause_v it_o and_o pride_n on_o all_o side_n pride_n in_o some_o that_o will_v not_o at_o first_o nor_o will_v not_o since_o submit_v their_o private_a judgement_n where_o with_o good_a conscience_n they_o may_v and_o aught_o and_o pride_n in_o other_o that_o will_v not_o first_o nor_o will_v not_o yet_o mend_v manifest_a great_a and_o dangerous_a error_n which_o with_o all_o good_a conscience_n they_o ought_v to_o do_v but_o it_o be_v not_o pride_n not_o to_o submit_v to_o know_a and_o gross_a error_n and_o the_o definition_n of_o some_o counsel_n perhaps_o the_o lateran_n constance_n and_o trent_n have_v be_v great_a and_o more_o urgent_a cause_n of_o breach_n of_o unity_n than_o the_o pride_n of_o man_n have_v be_v which_o yet_o i_o shall_v never_o excuse_v where-ere_a it_o be_v num._n 25_o how_o far_o this_o one_o soulsaving_a faith_n extend_v a._n c._n tell_v i_o i_o have_v confess_v it_o not_o a_o work_n for_o my_o pen_n but_o he_o say_v it_o be_v to_o be_v 72._o learn_v from_o that_o one_o holy_a catholic_a apostolic_a always_o visible_a and_o infallible_a roman_a church_n of_o which_o the_o lady_n once_o doubt_v be_v now_o full_o satisfy_v etc._n etc._n indeed_o though_o a._n c._n set_v this_o down_o with_o some_o scorn_n which_o i_o can_v easy_o pass_v over_o it_o be_v true_a that_o thus_o 1._o i_o say_v there_o be_v a_o latitude_n in_o faith_n especial_o in_o reference_n to_o different_a man_n salvation_n but_o to_o set_v a_o bind_v to_o this_o and_o strict_o to_o define_v it_o just_o thus_o far_o you_o must_v believe_v in_o every_o particular_a or_o incur_v domnation_n be_v no_o work_n for_o my_o pen._n thus_o i_o say_v and_o thus_o i_o say_v still_o for_o though_o the_o foundation_n be_v one_o and_o the_o same_o in_o all_o yet_o a_o 8._o latitude_n there_o be_v and_o a_o large_a one_o too_o when_o you_o come_v to_o consider_v not_o the_o foundation_n common_a to_o all_o but_o thing_n necessary_a to_o many_o particular_a man_n salvation_n for_o to_o whosoever_o god_n have_v give_v more_o of_o he_o shall_v more_o be_v require_v 3._o s._n luc._n 12._o as_o well_o in_o belief_n as_o in_o obedience_n and_o performance_n and_o the_o gift_n of_o god_n both_o ordinary_a and_o extraordinary_a to_o particular_a man_n be_v so_o various_a as_o that_o for_o my_o part_n i_o hold_v it_o impossible_a for_o the_o able_a pen_n that_o be_v to_o express_v it_o and_o in_o this_o respect_n i_o 1._o say_v it_o with_o humility_n and_o reason_n that_o to_o set_v these_o bound_n be_v no_o work_n for_o my_o pen._n nor_o will_v i_o ever_o take_v upon_o i_o to_o express_v that_o tenet_n or_o opinion_n the_o denial_n of_o the_o foundation_n only_o except_v which_o may_v shut_v any_o christian_a out_o of_o heaven_n and_o a._n c._n i_o believe_v you_o know_v very_o well_o to_o what_o a_o narrow_a scantling_n some_o 37._o learned_a of_o your_o own_o side_n bring_v the_o very_a foundation_n itself_o rather_o than_o they_o will_v lose_v any_o that_o lay_v hold_v on_o christ_n the_o son_n of_o god_n and_o redeemer_n of_o the_o world_n and_o as_o christ_n epitomize_v the_o whole_a law_n of_o obedrence_n into_o these_o two_o great_a commandment_n the_o love_n of_o god_n and_o our_o neighbour_n s._n mat._n 22._o so_o the_o apostle_n epitomize_v the_o whole_a law_n of_o belief_n into_o these_o two_o great_a assent_n that_o god_n be_v and_o that_o he_o be_v a_o rewarder_n of_o they_o that_o seek_v he_o heb._n 11._o that_o seek_v he_o in_o christ._n and_o s._n 6._o peter_n be_v full_a of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n when_o he_o express_v it_o that_o there_o be_v no_o salvation_n to_o they_o that_o seek_v it_o in_o or_o by_o another_o name_n act._n 4._o 12._o num._n 26_o but_o since_o this_o be_v no_o work_n for_o my_o pen_n it_o seem_v a._n c._n will_v not_o say_v it_o be_v a_o work_n salvation_n for_o he_o but_o he_o tell_v we_o 72._o it_o be_v to_o be_v learn_v of_o the_o one_o holy_a catholic_a apostolic_a always_o visible_a and_o infallible_a roman_a church_n '_o title_n enough_o give_v to_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o i_o wish_v she_o deserve_v they_o all_o for_o than_o we_o shall_v have_v peace_n but_o it_o be_v far_o otherwise_o one_o she_o be_v as_o a_o particular_a church_n but_o not_o the_o one._n holy_a she_o will_v be_v count_v but_o the_o world_n may_v see_v if_o it_o will_v not_o blind_v itself_o of_o what_o value_n holiness_n be_v in_o that_o court_n and_o country_n catholic_a she_o be_v not_o in_o any_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n for_o she_o be_v not_o the_o 18._o universal_a and_o so_o not_o catholic_a in_o extent_n nor_o be_v she_o sound_v in_o doctrine_n &_o in_o thing_n w_z ch_n come_v near_o upon_o the_o foundation_n too_o so_o not_o so_o catholic_a in_o belief_n nor_o be_v she_o the_o prime_a mother-church_n of_o christianity_n patriarchate_n jerusalem_n be_v that_o and_o so_o not_o catholic_a as_o a_o fountain_n or_o original_a or_o as_o the_o head_n or_o root_n of_o the_o catholic_a num._n 27_o and_o because_o many_o romanist_n object_n here_o though_o a._n c._n do_v it_o not_o that_o s._n cyprian_n call_v the_o 8._o roman_a church_n the_o root_n and_o matrix_fw-la of_o the_o catholic_a church_n of_o christ_n i_o hope_v i_o shall_v have_v leave_n to_o explain_v that_o difficult_a place_n also_o first_o then_o s._n cyprian_n name_v not_o rome_n that_o stand_v only_o in_o the_o margin_n and_o be_v place_v there_o as_o his_o particular_a judgement_n lead_v he_o he_o that_o set_v out_o s._n cyprian_n second_o the_o true_a story_n of_o that_o epistle_n and_o that_o which_o lead_v s._n cyprian_n into_o this_o expression_n be_v this_o cornelius_z then_o choose_a pope_n expostulate_v with_o s._n cyprian_n that_o his_o letter_n to_o rome_n be_v direct_v only_o to_o the_o clergy_n there_o and_o not_o to_o he_o and_o take_v it_o ill_o as_o if_o s._n cyprian_n have_v thereby_o seem_v 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