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world_n catholic_n church_n communion_n 5,870 5 9.6775 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A61627 Several conferences between a Romish priest, a fanatick chaplain, and a divine of the Church of England concerning the idolatry of the Church of Rome, being a full answer to the late dialogues of T.G. Stillingfleet, Edward, 1635-1699. 1679 (1679) Wing S5667; ESTC R18131 239,123 580

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there_o be_v in_o the_o world_n before_o julius_n caesar_n some_o civil_a society_n in_o which_o it_o be_v necessary_a for_o a_o man_n to_o live_v for_o his_o own_o preservation_n but_o this_o be_v not_o the_o roman_a empire_n for_o that_o rise_v up_o after_o he_o therefore_o it_o be_v the_o roman_a commonwealth_n but_o do_v not_o this_o imply_v that_o there_o be_v no_o other_o civil_a society_n in_o the_o world_n wherein_o a_o man_n can_v preserve_v himself_o but_o the_o roman_a commonwealth_n but_o i_o will_v put_v the_o case_n a_o little_o far_a home_n after_o britain_n be_v make_v a_o province_n it_o become_v a_o member_n of_o the_o roman_a empire_n and_o depend_v so_o much_o upon_o the_o strength_n and_o arm_n of_o rome_n that_o it_o be_v not_o able_a to_o defend_v itself_o it_o be_v sore_o distress_v by_o enemy_n and_o in_o danger_n of_o ruin_n send_v to_o rome_n for_o help_v there_o it_o be_v deny_v and_o the_o britain_n force_a to_o look_v out_o for_o help_v elsewhere_o now_o after_o t._n g.'s_n way_n of_o reason_v the_o britain_n must_v return_v to_o the_o roman_n because_o once_o they_o have_v be_v member_n of_o the_o roman_a empire_n the_o case_n be_v alike_o in_o the_o church_n the_o time_n be_v when_o the_o western_a church_n be_v unite_v under_o one_o head_n but_o by_o degree_n this_o head_n grow_v too_o heavy_a and_o lay_v too_o great_a a_o load_n on_o the_o member_n require_v very_o hard_a and_o unreasonable_a condition_n from_o they_o upon_o this_o some_o of_o the_o member_n seek_v for_o relief_n this_o be_v deny_v they_o they_o take_v care_n of_o their_o own_o safety_n and_o do_v what_o be_v necessary_a to_o preserve_v themselves_o the_o head_n and_o some_o corrupt_a member_n conspire_v denounce_v excommunication_n if_o they_o do_v not_o present_o yield_v and_o submit_v these_o part_n stand_v upon_o their_o own_o right_n and_o ancient_a privilege_n that_o it_o be_v not_o a_o union_n of_o submission_n but_o association_n original_o between_o several_a national_a church_n and_o therefore_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n assume_v so_o much_o more_o to_o itself_o than_o do_v belong_v to_o it_o and_o deal_v so_o tyrannical_o upon_o just_a complaint_n our_o church_n have_v reason_n to_o assert_v she_o own_o freedom_n and_o to_o reform_v the_o abuse_n which_o have_v creep_v either_o into_o her_o doctrine_n or_o practice_n and_o that_o this_o be_v lawful_a proceed_n it_o offer_v to_o justify_v by_o scripture_n and_o reason_n and_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n now_o the_o question_n of_o communion_n as_o it_o be_v state_v between_o t._n g._n and_o dr._n st._n come_v to_o this_o whether_o any_o person_n be_v baptize_v in_o this_o church_n aught_o in_o order_n to_o his_o salvation_n to_o forsake_v the_o communion_n of_o it_o for_o that_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o this_o be_v the_o true_a state_n of_o it_o i_o pray_v where_o lie_v the_o force_n of_o the_o argument_n dr._n st._n yield_v communion_n with_o some_o church_n to_o be_v necessary_a and_o what_o follow_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v so_o to_o one_o baptize_v in_o it_o why_o must_v any_o such_o leave_v it_o for_o that_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n yes_o say_v t._n g._n there_o be_v a_o distinct_a church_n before_o luther_n who_o communion_n be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o what_o then_o what_o have_v we_o to_o do_v with_o luther_n we_o be_v speak_v of_o the_o present_a church_n of_o england_n which_o be_v reform_v by_o itself_o and_o not_o by_o luther_n why_o be_v it_o necessary_a to_o leave_v this_o church_n in_o which_o person_n be_v baptize_v and_o not_o in_o that_o before_o luther_n here_o lie_v the_o main_a hinge_n of_o the_o controversy_n to_o which_o t._n g._n aught_o to_o speak_v and_o not_o to_o run_v to_o a_o church_n before_o luther_n the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v the_o church_n of_o england_n before_o the_o reformation_n as_o well_o as_o since_o but_o it_o have_v now_o reform_v itself_o be_v a_o entire_a body_n within_o itself_o have_v bishop_n to_o govern_v it_o priest_n and_o deacon_n to_o administer_v sacrament_n to_o preach_v the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o officiate_v in_o the_o public_a liturgy_n in_o which_o all_o the_o ancient_a creed_n be_v read_v and_o own_v the_o question_n now_o be_v whether_o salvation_n can_v be_v have_v in_o the_o communion_n of_o this_o church_n or_o all_o person_n be_v bind_v to_o return_v to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n this_o be_v the_o point_n if_o t._n g._n have_v any_o more_o to_o say_v to_o it_o r._n p._n t._n g._n urge_v far_o nothing_o can_v render_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n not_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n 74._o but_o either_o heresy_n or_o schism_n not_o heresy_n because_o she_o hold_v all_o the_o essential_a article_n of_o christian_a faith_n not_o schism_n because_o then_o dr._n st._n must_v assign_v some_o other_o distinct_a church_n then_o at_o least_o in_o be_v from_o who_o unity_n she_o depart_v p._n d._n a_o right_a douai_n argument_n one_o will_v take_v t._n g._n for_o a_o young_a missioner_n by_o it_o it_o be_v so_o exact_o cut_v in_o their_o form_n but_o it_o proceed_v upon_o such_o false_a supposition_n as_o these_o 1._o that_o communion_n with_o the_o roman_a church_n as_o such_o i._n e._n as_o a_o body_n unite_v under_o such_o a_o head_n be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n which_o we_o utter_o deny_v and_o it_o can_v never_o be_v prove_v but_o by_o show_v that_o christ_n appoint_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v head_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v a_o argument_n i_o do_v not_o find_v that_o now_o adays_o you_o be_v willing_a to_o enter_v upon_o be_v so_o threadbare_a and_o baffle_v a_o topick_n 2._o that_o no_o doctrine_n but_o such_o as_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n can_v be_v any_o reason_n to_o hold_v off_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o a_o church_n but_o we_o think_v the_o require_v doubtful_a thing_n for_o certain_a false_a for_o true_a new_a for_o old_a absurd_a for_o reasonable_a be_v ground_n enough_o for_o we_o not_o to_o embrace_v the_o communion_n of_o a_o church_n unless_o it_o may_v be_v have_v on_o better_a term_n than_o these_o 3._o that_o no_o church_n can_v be_v guilty_a of_o schism_n unless_o we_o can_v name_v some_o distinct_a church_n from_o who_o unity_n it_o separate_v whereas_o we_o have_v often_o prove_v that_o impose_v unreasonable_a condition_n of_o communion_n make_v the_o church_n so_o impose_v guilty_a of_o the_o schism_n sure_o t._n g.'s_n stock_n be_v almost_o spend_v when_o he_o play_v the_o same_o game_n so_o often_o over_o these_o be_v not_o such_o terrible_a argument_n to_o be_v produce_v afresh_o as_o if_o they_o have_v never_o be_v hear_v of_o when_o there_o be_v not_o a_o missioner_n that_o come_v but_o have_v they_o at_o his_o finger_n end_n r._n p._n but_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v once_o the_o true_a church_n 78._o rom._n 1._o and_o the_o christian_a world_n of_o all_o age_n believe_v it_o to_o be_v the_o only_a true_a church_n of_o christ_n but_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v not_o to_o be_v the_o true_a one_o by_o a_o evidence_n equal_a to_o that_o which_o once_o prove_v it_o true_a therefore_o we_o be_v bind_v to_o be_v of_o the_o communion_n of_o that_o church_n p._n d._n o_o the_o virtue_n of_o sodden_a colewort_n how_o often_o be_v they_o produce_v without_o shame_n to_o be_v short_a sir_n 1._o we_o deny_v that_o the_o church_n of_o which_o the_o pope_n be_v head_n be_v ever_o commend_v by_o st._n paul_n or_o in_o any_o one_o age_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n be_v own_v by_o it_o to_o be_v the_o only_a true_a church_n which_o be_v very_o much_o short_a of_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n of_o all_o age_n 2._o since_o the_o evidence_n be_v so_o notorious_o faulty_a about_o prove_v the_o roman_a church_n to_o be_v the_o only_a true_a church_n a_o small_a degree_n of_o evidence_n as_o to_o its_o corruption_n may_v exceed_v it_o and_o consequent_o be_v sufficient_a to_o keep_v we_o from_o return_v to_o its_o communion_n but_o what_o do_v t._n g._n mean_v by_o repeat_v such_o stuff_n as_o this_o which_o i_o dare_v say_v dr._n st._n only_o pass_v by_o on_o account_n of_o the_o slightness_n and_o commonness_n of_o it_o they_o be_v argument_n every_o day_n bring_v and_o every_o day_n answer_v and_o if_o he_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o see_v dr._n st.'s_n mind_n about_o they_o he_o may_v have_v see_v it_o at_o large_a in_o his_o defence_n of_o archhishop_n laud_n and_o do_v you_o think_v it_o fair_a for_o he_o every_o book_n he_o write_v to_o produce_v afresh_o every_o argument_n there_o which_o have_v receive_v no_o answer_n r._n p._n i_o perceive_v you_o begin_v to_o be_v out_o
in_o you._n i_o pray_v show_v the_o difference_n r._n p._n you_o will_v fain_o bring_v i_o back_o again_o to_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n but_o you_o shall_v not_o for_o i_o say_v their_o idolatry_n lie_v in_o worship_v god_n as_o unite_v to_o the_o part_n of_o the_o world_n and_o give_v divine_a worship_n to_o they_o on_o that_o account_n p._n d._n will_v you_o stand_v to_o this_o r._n p._n why_o not_o p._n d._n then_o i_o will_v prove_v worship_v the_o host_n to_o be_v idolatry_n on_o the_o same_o ground_n for_o in_o both_o case_n there_o be_v a_o supposition_n real_o false_a but_o which_o be_v true_a will_v justify_v the_o act_n of_o worship_n and_o if_o notwithstanding_o that_o supposition_n that_o god_n be_v the_o soul_n of_o the_o world_n the_o worship_v of_o god_n as_o so_o unite_v be_v idolatry_n than_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o host_n notwithstanding_o the_o supposition_n of_o christ_n body_n be_v unite_v to_o the_o species_n be_v idolatry_n too_o they_o be_v both_o act_n of_o adoration_n give_v to_o those_o object_n which_o in_o themselves_o deserve_v no_o worship_n but_o yet_o be_v adore_v upon_o such_o a_o supposition_n which_o be_v true_a will_v justify_v the_o performance_n of_o they_o r._n p._n you_o be_v much_o mistake_v in_o your_o parallel_n for_o as_o t._n g._n well_o observe_v in_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o host_n etc._n the_o act_n of_o adoration_n be_v not_o formal_o terminate_v upon_o the_o bread_n suppose_v it_o to_o remain_v but_o upon_o god_n but_o we_o conceive_v the_o bread_n not_o to_o be_v there_o at_o all_o 433._o but_o in_o place_n thereof_o the_o only_a true_a and_o eternal_a god_n and_o whatever_o be_v take_v for_o a_o object_n of_o worship_n the_o understanding_n must_v affirm_v either_o true_o or_o false_o to_o be_v but_o catholic_n whether_o mistake_v or_o not_o in_o the_o belief_n of_o transubstantiation_n do_v not_o in_o their_o mind_n affirm_v the_o bread_n to_o be_v but_o not_o to_o be_v because_o they_o believe_v it_o to_o be_v convert_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ._n but_o they_o who_o worship_v the_o part_n of_o the_o world_n with_o a_o respect_n to_o god_n as_o the_o soul_n of_o it_o do_v however_o believe_v those_o to_o have_v a_o real_a be_v and_o not_o to_o be_v turn_v into_o the_o substance_n of_o god_n p._n d._n all_o that_o this_o prove_v be_v that_o you_o do_v not_o take_v the_o bread_n itself_o for_o god_n no_o more_o do_v they_o who_o worship_v the_o part_n of_o the_o world_n as_o member_n of_o that_o body_n to_o which_o god_n be_v unite_v as_o the_o soul_n take_v those_o part_n for_o god_n but_o in_o both_o case_n there_o be_v a_o supposition_n equal_a to_o justify_v the_o worship_n if_o true_a and_o if_o notwithstanding_o this_o supposition_n the_o heathen_n be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n why_o be_v not_o you_o upon_o a_o far_o more_o unreasonable_a supposition_n than_o that_o if_o christ_n body_n be_v present_a in_o the_o eucharist_n you_o say_v you_o may_v worship_v it_o as_o there_o present_a so_o say_v they_o if_o god_n be_v the_o soul_n of_o the_o world_n we_o may_v lawful_o worship_v the_o several_a part_n of_o it_o but_o you_o say_v whatever_o be_v a_o object_n of_o worship_n must_v be_v suppose_v to_o be_v whereas_o you_o suppose_v the_o bread_n not_o to_o be_v but_o to_o be_v convert_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n which_o alter_v not_o the_o case_n for_o the_o question_n be_v not_o about_o the_o bare_a be_v or_o not_o be_v of_o the_o thing_n but_o of_o the_o be_v or_o not_o be_v of_o a_o fit_a object_n of_o worship_n i_o will_v make_v the_o matter_n plain_a to_o you_o by_o this_o instance_n one_o of_o the_o most_o common_a idolatry_n of_o the_o heathen_a world_n be_v the_o worship_n of_o the_o sun_n they_o who_o do_v worship_v it_o do_v suppose_v it_o to_o be_v a_o fit_a object_n for_o worship_n but_o they_o who_o look_v on_o the_o sun_n as_o a_o mere_a creature_n can_v not_o think_v so_o therefore_o to_o make_v any_o creature_n a_o fit_a object_n for_o worship_n there_o must_v go_v a_o far_a supposition_n viz._n of_o the_o divinity_n be_v in_o it_o or_o unite_v to_o it_o now_o the_o main_a point_n lie_v here_o whether_o on_o supposition_n that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o sun_n do_v not_o remain_v it_o will_v not_o be_v idolatry_n but_o on_o supposition_n that_o it_o do_v remain_v it_o will_v be_v idolatry_n i_o pray_v then_o answer_v i_o will_v it_o be_v idolatry_n or_o not_o to_o worship_v the_o sun_n suppose_v a_o man_n believe_v the_o very_a substance_n of_o the_o sun_n to_o be_v turn_v into_o the_o divinity_n r._n p._n no_o sure_o for_o that_o be_v our_o own_o case_n p._n d._n how_o come_v it_o then_o to_o be_v idolatry_n suppose_v the_o divinity_n unite_v to_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o sun_n r._n p._n in_o one_o case_n we_o may_v be_v suppose_v to_o worship_v a_o thing_n which_o be_v but_o in_o the_o other_o we_o can_v be_v suppose_v to_o worship_v that_o which_o at_o the_o same_o time_n we_o believe_v not_o to_o be_v p._n d._n if_o it_o be_v idolatry_n to_o worship_n that_o as_o god_n which_o be_v not_o god_n than_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o host_n may_v be_v idolatry_n though_o you_o suppose_v the_o bread_n not_o to_o be_v for_o to_o suppose_v that_o not_o to_o be_v which_o real_o be_v do_v no_o more_o alter_v the_o case_n than_o to_o suppose_v that_o to_o be_v god_n which_o be_v not_o for_o that_o be_v to_o suppose_v that_o not_o to_o be_v a_o creature_n which_o be_v for_o the_o worshipper_n of_o any_o part_n of_o the_o world_n may_v profess_v as_o solemn_o as_o you_o do_v about_o the_o bread_n that_o if_o they_o do_v believe_v the_o sun_n to_o be_v a_o mere_a creature_n they_o shall_v abhor_v the_o thought_n of_o worship_v it_o but_o believe_v it_o either_o to_o be_v god_n itself_o or_o at_o least_o that_o the_o godhead_n be_v unite_v to_o it_o why_o be_v not_o they_o as_o excusable_a as_o those_o who_o declare_v they_o abhor_v the_o thought_n of_o worship_v the_o bread_n but_o they_o believe_v it_o not_o to_o be_v bread_n but_o the_o body_n of_o the_o son_n of_o god_n r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n observe_v that_o the_o formal_a term_n of_o idolatrous_a worship_n be_v a_o undue_a object_n 328._o viz._n a_o creature_n instead_o of_o the_o creator_n but_o catholic_n in_o case_n of_o a_o mistake_n will_v have_v no_o other_o formal_a object_n in_o their_o mind_n but_o the_o creator_n himself_o p._n d._n as_o though_o the_o nature_n of_o idolatry_n do_v consist_v in_o the_o worship_n of_o a_o creature_n know_v it_o to_o be_v a_o mere_a creature_n may_v not_o the_o heathen_n have_v say_v they_o have_v no_o other_o formal_a object_n of_o adoration_n in_o their_o mind_n but_o god_n but_o suppose_v he_o unite_v to_o the_o part_n of_o the_o world_n they_o may_v worship_v they_o on_o his_o account_n as_o well_o as_o those_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n give_v adoration_n to_o that_o which_o appear_v to_o be_v mere_a bread_n if_o they_o who_o worship_v the_o sun_n on_o the_o account_n of_o the_o divinity_n which_o be_v in_o it_o or_o unite_v to_o it_o be_v yet_o guilty_a of_o idolatry_n because_o though_o on_o supposition_n the_o divinity_n be_v so_o unite_v the_o worship_n will_v be_v lawful_a yet_o the_o supposition_n be_v false_a they_o be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n why_o then_o shall_v not_o those_o be_v equal_o guilty_a of_o it_o who_o worship_n a_o divinity_n as_o present_v under_o the_o species_n of_o bread_n if_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n do_v still_o remain_v for_o then_o the_o worship_n however_o intend_v fall_v upon_o a_o mere_a creature_n as_o it_o do_v in_o the_o former_a case_n r._n p._n those_o who_o worship_v the_o sun_n do_v suppose_v the_o substance_n of_o the_o sun_n still_o to_o remain_v but_o catholic_n do_v not_o suppose_v the_o substance_n of_o bread_n to_o continue_v but_o in_o place_n thereof_o do_v worship_n the_o only_a true_a and_o eternal_a god_n p._n d._n it_o be_v true_a they_o do_v suppose_v the_o substance_n of_o the_o sun_n to_o remain_v but_o they_o do_v not_o intend_v to_o terminate_v their_o worship_n on_o that_o substance_n but_o on_o the_o divinity_n unite_v to_o it_o and_o to_o suppose_v that_o not_o to_o be_v bread_n which_o be_v real_o bread_n do_v no_o more_o excuse_n from_o idolatry_n than_o suppose_v that_o not_o to_o be_v a_o mere_a creature_n which_o real_o be_v no_o more_o but_o to_o drive_v this_o matter_n home_o to_o you_o i_o will_v ask_v a_o far_a question_n be_v those_o idolater_n who_o worship_v the_o part_n of_o the_o world_n as_o a_o part_n of_o the_o substance_n of_o god_n himself_o so_o that_o he_o be_v one_o and_o all_o r._n