Selected quad for the lemma: world_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
world_n	catholic_a	church_n	visible_a	2,933	5	9.1820	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A06199	Cum bono Deo Raine from the clouds, vpon a choicke angel: or, A returned answere, to that common quæritur of our adversaries, VVhere was your church before Luther? Digested into several meditations, according to the difference of points. Extorted off the author, for stilling the vncessant, and no lesse clamorous coassation of some patmicke frogges, against the lawfulness of our calling.	Logie, Andrew.	1624 (1624)	STC 16694; ESTC S108810	39,602	80

the matter prooveth easier with our Adversaries who haue CHRIST with them bodilie still present in the Hostie for-sooth vpon the Priestes intention and the Sainctes and Angles semblablie in their representing Images Nay to deale heere well liberallie with our Adversaries and giue them that that which is but the most ignoble part of the Church which repit or serpit humi which is but a edolating exasciating effigiating or efforming heere but by piece-maile may bee called by the name of the Catholicke Church I pray you may all these particular Churches so diverslie dispersed throughout the whole world gathered of every Trybe Nation Kinred Language bee together and at once pointed at by finger for it is headilie to bee observed how our Adversaries confound in this argument 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 visibile 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 videri taking 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 visibile non de potentia sed de actu c. As to that their Palmarie or maine Argument heere Quod cujus partes omnes sunt visibles ipsum totum tale sit and so that the Catholicke Church must needs bee visible because of the visibilitie of all the particulare Churches Truelie this argument non tam habet paralogismum quam sapit redolet helleborismum as if all the particulare Churches throughout the world Locorum intervallis tam dissitae simul semel digito notari possent But to binde our Adversaries heere I argue thus Quod desideratur vel in toto Physico illud frustra requiritur malè exigitur in to●o mystico That is What is found wanting or is not findable in a physicall bodie is ill required and sought for in a mysticall But so it is vel in toto Physico even in a Physicall bodie quantitatis scilicet ita discretae ut partes longissimis locorum intervallis à seinvicem distent partes omnes simul semel digito notari non possunt Ergo farre lesse is this findable in a mysticall bodie yea in such a bodie quod simul continuum discretum praedicatur esse in Scripturis as which is named by the names of things quantitatis utriusque continuae discretae as of an House of a Flocke c. I leaue to show How the Church may bee called visible and invisible in different regards respectis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 materialis or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 formalis respectu formae internae or externae which externall forme againe variis mutationum vicibus ac gyris obnoxia ac infesta est Quartum Meletema IF so bee That the Church may suffer such eclipse as to her externall forme or visible face as that shee cannot bee espyed and discerned there remaining but a remanent through the election of Grace then it followeth that this demand of our Adversaries Concerning the being of our Church before LVTHER as to that her externall forme or visible face is but idle But wee may see the possibilitie of this hypothese vnder both the Testamentes in the dayes of Eli vnder the olde Testament 1. King 19 and in Sainct Pauls time vnder the newe Covenant Rom. 11. vers 5. Then the question turneth to this to see When and where this case hath behappened the Church wherefore from hence thus I reason In the dayes of Eliah there was a true Church in Israel which the LORDS owne answere returned to Eliah vpon that his complaint instructeth to the full except that seaven thousand Numerus definitus pro indefinito can not make vp a Church with our Adversaries heere who can cut her shorter at tymes to their owne advantage as in their private Communion But so it is this Church suffered eclipse as to her outward forme or visible face for howe could shee else haue escaped even the sight of the Prophet cui erant ad videndum oculi Ergo a Church ceaseth not to bee simplie whilst eclipsed as to her externall forme or visible face Thus you may perceiue evidentlie how our Adversaries heere deceiue the simpler sort vrging still the visiblitie of the Church for what hath alreadie behappened the Church the same case may againe befall her and so their quaestion resolveth in the winde Our Adversaries heere perceiving and feeling themselves straited as touching the Church in Israel are forced to bethinke with themselues of some escape here whitherto to haue their refuge wherefore they grant this to bee true of the Church of Israel or of Samaria but they pretende that there was then a flowrishing Church in Hierusalem vnder the reigne of Asa and Iosaphat godlie Princes and so that this instance proveth nothing for the whole Church vnder the Law For answere First wee alleadge not hitherto that instance that therevpon wee may conclude the generall or in the generall of the whole ancient Church vnder the Law but onlie to proue that these may suffer yea and haue reapse suffered divorce that is That a Church may remaine simplie a Church though eclipsed as to her externall policie outward forme or visible face which our Adversaries flatlie deny because of the errand in hand Next it is sufficient for probation of our Theme and decyding the quaestion betwixt them and vs to prooue this of anie particular Church for why may not the same case befall anie sister Church So frustra sunt Adversarii whereas they except that this alleadged instance by vs prooveth nothing for the Catholicke Church or for the whole Church vnder the Law for wee are not so swollen vp as to acclaime to vs the name of the Catholicke Church but humblie acknowledge our selues but Daughters of that Mother Last ut dejiciamus eos hoc praesidio that wee may driue them from this starting hole I would pose our Adversaries if the Church of Iudah had anie farther Priviledge heere Truelie wee may see Iudah to haue surpassed her Sister Samaria in her abhominations nay to haue exceeded Sodome and her daughters Ezech. 16. yea wee finde her revolts so generall as that Prince Priest and People all in common abandoned the Law of GOD declined from His service fell away to Idolatrie and followed after the same Ezech. 7. vers ultino But because that generals cannot binde nor worke with our Adversaries let vs instance the matter more particularlie Whereas King Ahaz set vp a strange Altar after the fashion of that of Damascus in the house of GOD nay the Priest himselfe Vriiah made it and set it vp at the wicked Kinges commaundement and sacrificed therevpon vnto the gods of the Damasconians yea last whereas this wicked King gathered together the Vessels of the House of GOD brake them and shut vp the doores of the House of the LORD made him Altars in everie corner of Hierusalem and in everie Citie of Iudah made high places to burne Incense vnto other gods 2. King 16. Item 2. Chron. 28. vers 23.24.25 I would pose our Adversaries heere where was the visible face of the Church of Iudah whilst Idolatrie thus occupied and filled the

Temple nay filled everie corner and everie high place And because una birundo non facit ver I would inquire yet farther Where was the visible Church of Iudah whereas Manasseh restored Idolatrie as lykewyse vnder Amon If our Adversaries would except heere That there remained still a Church throughout all those dayes and times to wit in some certaine persons as Prophets and others of the same note the answere should prooue easie The quaestion is not of the Church simplie for there remaineth still a Church while there remaine anie two or three qui Patrem in CHRISTO per Spiritum invocent but of the Church as to her externall policie If shee remaine alwayes so visible as to her externall forme as that shee may bee straight discerned or internosced by the eye from other companies whether acclaiming or not acclaiming to them this name for our Adversaries cannot away that anie Church receiue the name of a true Church which is not instructed with this externall policie furnished with this outward visibilitie eutaxie and constitution If you could bee pleased heere to eye a little with mee the Church throughout her whole marching from Families to the Tabernacle and from thence to the Temple as lykewyse throughout her whole estate before the Law vnder the Law and vnder Grace you should see her still to haue suffered eclipses and deliquies as to her externall forme or visible face so that our Adversaries denying That a Church can turne invisible quoad externam ' 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 politiam and yet continue a Church bewray an inexpiable anistoresie or ignorance of the sacred historie Reade you not in the third Chapter of Genesis of the fall of our first Parents and at the closure of the fourth Chapter howe men began to call vpon the Name of the LORD as Enoch was borne to Seth which importeth a prior suppression of Religion How long continued the true Religion vnviolated Etiam in sanctâ illâ gente even in that holie posteritie of SHEM Were not ABRAHAMS Fathers Idolaters and himselfe called out of VR of the CHALDAEANS being an Idolater Againe Did not the people followe Idolatrie the space of two hundreth yeares in AEGYPT without so much as anie open opposite Ezechiel 23. Vers 3. and 19. Heere both the Daughters IVDAH as ISRAEL or SAMARIA idolatred and committed Fornication as is cleare from the alleadged place What will our Adversaries say heere where the whole people idolatred and worshipped the golden Calfe etiam ARAONE duce Exod. 32. For as to that That MOSES was free heere it is nothing for hee is Ecclesiae but non Ecclesia BELLARMINE here affirmeth yet farther That the whole Levites remained pure and free from this contagion because that the whole sonnes of LEVI are sayde to haue gathered themselues vnto him Vbi ultionem pararet poenas exigeret Idolomanias illius For aunswere BELLARMINE playeth the Sophist heere for the Text serveth to show indeede who they were that adjoyned themselues to MOSES that they were Levites but it sayeth not that the Levites were all to one pure and free from this contagion nay it is not probable that all the sonnes of LEVI gathered themselues to MOSES for so if omnes sese ad ultionem accinxissent majorem indubiè edidissent stragem for a little after Habito eorum censu they are reckoned foorth about nine thousand Alwayes the first answere serveth the turne What can our Adversaries say to their manifolde and most frequent revolts vnder the IVDGES Nay What can they possible except heere whereas wee reade Iudg. Cap. 8. Vers 27.33.34 of the generall revolt of the Iudge and people in common whilst even GIDEON one of the Iudges of no slender note made an Ephod and put it in EPHRATH his Citie where all ISRAEL went a-whoring after it Yea and not staying heere after his death went a-whoring after Baalim and made Baal-Berith their god By the waye heere it is observeable what aunswere that ARCHI-RABBI BELLARMINE returneth to this exception of our men to wit Of the generall inveighing of the Prophets against the generall defection of the whole bodie in common of the whole people head and tayle as it were to wit That that is directed to all oratorio more which pertayneth but to the greater part that is per 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nowe then to take but what hee giveth it holdeth then still true Ecclesiam deficere saltem secundum rationem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or in respect of the greater part Aufugiente subducente se interim muliere in desertum the Woman taking her flight in the meane time to the Wildernesse ubi à DEO mirabiliter pascitur rationibus nobis saepe occultis sibi autem ut notissimis ita facillimis But to come a little nearer I would learne of our Adversaries Where the visible face of the Church was whereas CHRIST came into the worlde If this was to bee measured ex visibili illa Sacerdotum successione from that visible succession of the Priestes Againe I would vnderstand heere What shall bee the visible or externall forme or face of the Church whereas CHRIST shall come to judgement whiles Hee hath fore-prophesied Himselfe Hee shall scarse finde Fayth on the Earth This I vrge onelie ad sensum currentem I grant indeede that there may bee such a visible Church as our Adversaries require and holde to wit As consisting of members devoyde of Fayth Hope and Charitie for I would haue you to remember heere that of BELLARMINE de Ecclesiae Lib. 3. Cap. 2. Sect. ultima where hee sayeth Non requiri ad hoc ut quis sit membrum Ecclesiae ut habeat Fidem Spem Charitatem And yet Si diis placet this Church shall bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Whereas the Church rested as some of themselues even acknowledge in the person of the blessed Virgine where was then the visible face of the Church I would farther pose our Adversaries If the Kingdome of GOD may not admit and suffer translation from one Nation to another nay and if it hath not indeede suffered the same What follie or yet madnesse is it then so pertinaciouslie to pretende heere That a Church cannot suffer such eclipse as to her externall forme as that shee may not bee espyed Wherefore to deale a little more presslie here I would vnderstand if What hath behappened to anie one part of the Catholicke Church that is to this or that particular Church may not befall another or else the reason of the difference heere But so it is This or that particular Church may suffer this eclipse yea admit this translation as the Church of EPHESVS to mention it exemplarlie for Nonne CHRISTVS hoc ipsum interminatur in Epistolis ad Asiaticas Ecclesias tollam Candelabrum doeth hee not thus menace the Church of EPHESVS Revel Cap. 2. vers 5. that hee will come against her shortlie and remooue her Candle-sticke out of his place except shee amende Then it remayneth

That the lyke case may befall anie Church else To vse yet a fewe particulare instances for the fuller and clearer conviction of our Adversaries Vbi Mahumetismus omnia in Oriente obtinuit nay Vbi totus orbis ingemuit sese Arrianum factum esse miratus est ubi visibilis illa Ecclesiae facies quaeso videris Whereas Mahumetisme obtayned throughout the whole East nay and the whole worlde groaned vnder the heavie Yoake and Burden of Arrianisme vvhere was the visible face of the Church Truelie there is nothing more certaine than that there were manie most flowrishing Churches in the East which are to daye proh dolor transformed in Muscetas Mahumetanorum Nay I haue it of those who had it ex 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that they saw in Greece manie flowrishing Cities wherein there was not so much as the least trace of anie Church nor vestige of anie Christian doctrine omnia quippe occupaverat Mahumetica colluvies But lest I might seeme heere vel è sinu proferre testem as is ordinarie with our Adversaries I sticke not to deferre this to their owne testimonie or the testimonie to themselues I pray you then what letteth mee to reason heere by way of Analogie and so conclude That what hath behappened this or these particular Churches may befall others their Sisters nothing more heere priviledged against the same danger That wee may come yet nearer and strike home let mee demande of our Adversaries Whether or not the Church vnder Grace should haue her flight to the Wildernesse and that with Eagles wings not onlie for pernicitie in flying but for continuing of the flight in respect of tract of tyme and so lurke there for a goodlie space I hope our Adversaries dare not so farre foorth rubbe their fore-heads heere as openlie to disavow this the Scripture beeing heere so expresse and formall Now this beeing laide the answere to the maine quaestion prooveth easie Our Church was lurking in the Desert fleeing the persecution of the Dragon as that Church of Israel lurked vnder that persecution of Achab and Iezabel Nay this affordeth vs an infallible demonstration for vs and against our Adversaries to this sense That must needs bee the true Church which according to Sainct Iohns prophesie hath had her flight to the Wildernesse But so it is such onlie is ours and not theirs according to their owne confession and concession whereas they stand to the constant visibilitie thereof Ergo with vs still is the true Church Thus who seeth not except a borne-blinde that our Adversaries wrong their cause mightilie through imprudencie or impudencie whereas they contende That their Church was not onlie visible but still actuallie seene for differunt haec duo quantum actus potentia adeoque non statim desinit esse visibile quod non actu videtur it ceaseth not straight to bee visible which is not actuallie seene which our Adversaries still confound in this argument as who deny straight the visibilitie of a Church except shee may bee still actuallie pointed at by the finger as if the Sunne ceased to bee visible whiles the sight thereof is intercepted from vs by the interjection of a Cloude or through the weaknesse of our seeing facultie vnseene of vs. Thus you see how variable a Church is and may bee us to her outward policie so that our Adversaries haue heere no just matter offered them of offence whereas tracing heerein the Fathers in whose words else they sweare yea their fayth resolveth wee liken the Church to the Moone propter varios labores defectus eclipses deliquia Hitherto Sainct AUGUSTINE Ipsa est quae aliquando obscuratur tanquam obnubilatur multitudine scandalorum aliquando tranquillitate temporis quieta libera apparet aliquando tribulationum tentationum fluctibus operitur atque turbatur But let vs heare the Church of her selfe and for her selfe Micab Chap. 7.8 Rejoyce not against mee O mine Enemie though I fall I shall aryse when I shall sit in darknesse the LORD shall bee a light vnto mee c. Heere this is spoken in the person of the Church which calleth the malignant Church her enemie Now 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 praesupponeth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Est of the third adjacent Est of the second Then the true Church may fall and sit in darknesse Hitherto reade we Isaiah Chap. 1. vers 8 where the Daughter of Zion is likened to a Cottage in a Vine-yarde to a Lodge in a Garden of Cucumbers and to a besiedged Citie c. which if committed with these other places importing at least poynting at her conspicuitie and visibilitie serue to shew foorth her variablenesse and shadowing by turning I know that our Adversaries except against the former part of my Discourse where I concluded from the Iewish Church to the Christian because of the great oddes heere and diverse priviledges of the Christian Church aboue the Iewish wherefore it standeth vs vpon to eye a little into these alleadged Priviledges as wee would haue my prior Discourse to remayne in its full vigour The Priviledges of the Christian Church aboue the Iewish at least alleadged vnto in this Argument I finde in speciall to bee these two The first The vniversalitie of the one aboue the other and this to this sense As that there is no salvation without the Christian but was not so of the Iewish The seconde is That the Christian hath farre fayrer and larger promises made to her As to the first taken from the vniversalitie of the Christian Church lest they might seeme heere to stand but to a bare and naked Assertion they thus instance the matter from Iob and some yet from Melchisedecke That I may proceede heere the more orderlie first I will treate a little in the generall of the whole matter and then come to the particulare exceptions and their probations To the generall then I would first inquire and learne of our Adversaries Whether the Church vnder the Law and vnder Grace bee two different Churches or but one and the same in matter and substance though differing in respect of the externall scheme or Vesture Iewish or Christian as still the grace dispensed vnder both the Covenantes was but one and the same the manner of dispensation but varying Next I would vnderstand Whether or not Eadem fit analogia partium similarium so that what behappeneth anie one part may befall another and so all in common are lyable to the same dangers Last the Apostle vvideth this processe heere to our advantage Rom. 11. where hee showeth That the Christian Church of the Gentiles is capable of excision incase shee persevere not as was the Iewish Synagogue nay hee reasoneth from rhe more to the lesse Now to the particular exceptions As to the first I avouch That the Iewish Church ceedeth not the least heere to the Christian and That without her there was no salvation For proofe heereof besides diverse other passages making heerevnto let vs advise the Apostle Ephes