'le tell you how I know it Somewhat above four hundred years after Innocentius made his Comment upon the two great Lights the Sun and the Moon the Pope and the Emperor a Spanish Friar follows the same resemblance between the Monarchies of Rome and Spain in a Tract of his intitled The Agreement of the two Catholike Monarchies and Printed in Spanish in Madrid Anno 1612. In the Frontispiece or Title-page of this Book there are set out two Scutchions The one bearing the Cross-Keys of Rome The other the Arms of Castile and Leon both joyned together with this Motto In vinculo pacis in the bond of peace On the one side of this there is a Portraiture resembling Rome with the Sun shining over it and darting his beams on S. Peters Keys with this Inscription Luminare Majus the greater Light that it may govern the City that is Rome and the whole world And on the other side there 's another Image designing Spain with the Moon shining over that and spreading forth its Rays upon the Spanish Scutchion with this Impress Luminare minus the less Light that it may be subject to the City of Rome he means and so be Lord to govern the whole world besides And over all this in the top of the Title-page there is Printed in Capital Letters Fecit-Dens duo Luminaria magna God made two great Lights There follows after in this Author a Discovery at large of this Blazoning of these Arms but this is the Substance of it and abundantly enough to shew what is aimed at by whom and for whom And this Book was not stollen out without the will and consent of the State For it hath Printed before it all manner of Licence that a Book can well have For it hath the approbation of Father Pedro de Buyza of the Company of the Jesuites Of John de Arcediano Provincial of the Dominicans Of Diego Granero the Licencer appointed for the Supreme Councel of the Inquisition And some of these revised this Book by Order from the Lords of that Councel And last of all the Kings Priviledge is to it with high Commendation of the Work But the Spaniards had need look to it for all this lest the French deceive them For now lately Friar Campanella hath set out an Eclogue upon the Birth of the Dolphin and that Permissu Superiorum by Licence from his Superiors In which he says expresly That all Princes are now more afraid of France than ever for that there is provided for it Regnum Universale The Universal Kingdom or Monarchy Num. 13 But 't is time to Return For A. C. in this passage hath been very Careful to tell us of a Parliament and of Living Magistrates and Judges besides the Law-Books Thirdly therefore the Church of England God be thanked thrives happily under a Gracious Prince and well understands that a Parliament cannot be called at all times And that there are Visible Judges besides the Law-Books and One Supreme long may he be and be happy to settle all Temporal differences which certainly he might much better perform if his Kingdoms were well rid of A. C. and his fellows And she believes too That our Saviour Christ hath left in his Church besides his Law-book the Scripture Visible Magistrates and Judges that is Archbishops and Bishops under a gracious King to govern both for Truth and Peace according to the Scripture and her own Canons and Constitutions as also those of the Catholike Church which cross not the Scripture and the Just Laws of the Realm But she doth not believe there is any Necessity to have one Pope or Bishop over the Whole Christian world more than to have one Emperour over the whole world Which were it possible She cannot think fit Nor are any of these intermediate Judges or that One which you would have Supreme Infallible But since a Kingdom and a Parliament please A. C. so well to patern the Church by I 'le follow him in the way he goes and be bold to put him in minde that in some Kingdoms there are divers Businesses of greatest Consequence which cannot be finally and bindingly ordered but in and by Parliament And particularly the Statute-Laws which must bind all the Subjects cannot be made and ratified but there Therefore according to A. C.'s own Argument there will be some Businesses also found Is not the setling of the Divisions of Christendom one of them which can never be well setled but in a General Councel And particularly the making of Canons which must binde all Particular Christians and Churches cannot be concluded and established but there And again as the Supreme Magistrate in the State Civil may not abrogate the Laws made in Parliament though he may Dispense with the Sanction or penalty of the Law quoad hic nunc as the Lawyers speak So in the Ecclesiastical Body no Bishop no not the Pope where his Supremacie is admitted hath power to disanul or violate the true and Fundamental Decrees of a General Councel though he may perhaps dispense in some Cases with some Decrees By all which it appears though somewhat may be done by the Bishops and Governors of the Church to preserve the unity and certainty of Faith and to keep the Church from renting or for uniting it when it is rent yet that in the ordinary way which the Church hath hitherto kept some things there are and upon great emergent Occasions may be which can have no other help than a lawful free and well composed General Councel And when that cannot be had the Church must pray that it may and expect till it may or else reform its self per partes by National or Provincial Synods as hath been said before And in the mean time it little beseems A. C. or any Christian to check at the wisdom of Christ if he have not taken the way they think fitting to settle Church-Differences Or if for the Churches Sin or Tryal the way of Composing them be left more uncertain than they would have it that they which are approved may be known 1 Cor. 11. 19. But the Jesuite had told me before that a General Councel had adjudged these things already For so he says F. I told him that a General Couneeâ— to wit of Trent had already Judged not the Roman Church but the Protestants to â—â—lâ— Errours That saith the B. was not a Lawful Councel B. § 27 Num. 1 It is true that you replyed for the Councel of Trent And my Answer was not onely That the Councel was not Legal in the necessary Conditions to be observed in a General Councel but also That it was no General Councel which again you are content to omit Consider it well First is that Councel Legal the Abettors whereof maintain publikely That it is lawful for them to conclude any Controversie and shake it be deside and so in your Judgement Fundamental though it
C's words are very considerable For he charges the Protestants to be the Authors of the Schism for obstinate holding and teaching contrary Opinions To what I pray Why to the Roman Faith To the Roman Faith It was wont to be the Christian Faith to which contrary Opinions were so dangerous to the Maintainers But all 's Roman now with A. C. and the Jesuite And then to countenance the Business S. Bernard and S. Augustine are brought in whereas neither of them speak of the Roman and S. Bernard perhaps neither of the Catholike nor the Roman but of a Particular Church or Congregation Or if he speak of the Catholike of the Roman certainly he doth not His words are Quae major superbia c. What greater pride than that one man should prefer his judgment before the whole Congregation of all the Christian Churches in the world So A. C. out of Saint Bernard But Saint Bernard not so For these last words of all the Christian Churches in the world are not in Saint Bernard And whether Toti Congregationi imply more in that Place than a Particular Church is not very manifest Nay I think 't is plain that he speaks both of and to that particular Congregation to which he was then preaching And I believe A. C. will not easily find where tota Congregatio the whole Congregation is used in Saint Bernard or any other of the Fathers for the whole Catholike Church of Christ. And howsoever the meaning of S. Bernard be 't is one thing for a private man Judicium suum praeferre to prefer and so follow his private Judgment before the Whole Congregation which is indeed Lepra proprii Consilii as S. Bernard there calls it the proud Leprosie of the Private Spirit And quite another thing for an Intelligent man and in some things unsatisfied modestly to propose his doubts even to the Catholike Church And much more may a whole National Church nay the whole Body of the Protestants do it And for S. Augustine the Place alledged out of him is a known Place And he speaks indeed of the Whole Catholike Church And he says and he says it truly 'T is a part of most insolent madness for any Man to dispute whether that be to be done which is usually done in and through the whole Catholike Church of Christ Where first here 's not a word of the Roman Church but of that which is tota per Orbem all over the World Catholike which Rome never yet was Secondly A. C. applies this to the Roman Faith whereas S. Augustine speaks there expresly of the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church and particularly about the Manner of Offering upon Maundy Thursday whether it be in the Morning or after Supper or both Thirdly 't is manifest by the words themselves that S. Augustine speaks of no Matter of Faith there Roman nor Catholike For Frequentat and Faciendum are for Things done and to be done not for Things believed or to be believed So here 's not One Word for the Roman Faith in either of these Places And after this I hope you will the less wonder at A. C's Boldness Lastly a right sober man may without the least Touch of Insolencie or Madness dispute a Business of Religion with the Roman either Church or Prelate as all men know Irenaeus did with Victor so it be with Modesty and for the finding out or Confirming of Truth free from Vanity and purposed Opposition against even a Particular Church But in any other way to dispute the Whole Catholike Church is just that which S. Augustine calls it Insolent Madness Num. 5 But now were it so that the Church of Rome were Orthodox in all things yet the Faith by the Jesuite's leave is not simply to be called the Roman but the Christian and the Catholike Faith And yet A. C. will not understand this but Roman and Catholike whether Church or Faith must be one and the same with him and therefore infers That there can be no just Cause to make a Schism or Division from the whole Church For the whole Church cannot universally erre in Doctrine of Faith That the whole Church cannot universally erre in the Doctrine of Faith is most true and 't is granted by drivers Protestants so you will but understand it s not erring in Absolute Fundamental Doctrines And therefore 't is true also that there can be no just Cause to make a Schism from the whole Church But here 's the Jesuite's Cunning. The whole Church with him is the Roman and those parts of Christendom which subject themselves to the Roman Bishop All other parts of Christendom are in Heresie and Schism and what A. C. pleases Nay soft For another Church may separate from Rome if Rome will separate from Christ. And so far as it separates from Him and the Faith so far may another Church fever from it And this is all that the Learned Protestants do or can say And I am sure all that ever the Church of England hath either said or done And that the whole Church cannot erre in Doctrines absolutely Fundamental and Necessary to all mens Salvation besides the Authority of thoso Protestants most of them being of prime Rank seems to me to be clear by the Promise of Christ S. Matth. 16. That the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it Whereas most certain it is that the Gates of Hell prevail very far against it if the Whole Militant Church universally taken can Erre from or in the Foundation But then this Power of not Eâ—ring is not to be conceived as if it were in the Church primò per se Originally or by any power it hath of it self For the Church is constituted of Men and Humanum est errare all men can erre But this Power is in it partly by the vertue of this Promise of Christ and partly by the Matter which it teacheth which is the unerring Word of God so plainly and manifestly delivered to her as that it is not possible she should universally fall from it or teach against it in things absolutely necessary to Salvation Besides it would be well weighed whether to believe or teach otherwise will not impeach the Article of the Creed concerning the Holy Catholike Church which we profess we believe For the Holy Catholike Church there spoken of contains not only the whole Militant Church on earth but the whole Triumphant also in Heaven For so S. Augustine hath long since taught me Now if the whole Catholike Church in this large extent be Holy then certainly the whole Militant Church is Holy as well as the Triumphant though in a far lower degree in as much as all Sanctification all Holiness is imperfect in this life as well in Churches as in Men Holy then the whole Militant Church is For that which the Apostle speaks of Abraham is true of the Church which is a Body Collective made
must in reason be perfecter than that which is but the Childe of one mans sufficiency If then a General Councel have no ground of Not erring from the Men or the Meeting either it must not be at all or it must be by some assistance and power upon them when they are so met together And this if it be less than the Assistance of the holy Ghost it cannot make them secure against Errour Num. 1 Thirdly I Consider That the Assistance of the Holy Ghost is without Errour That 's no Question and as little there is That a Councel hath it But the Doubt that troubles is Whether all the assistance of the Holy Ghost be afforded in such a High manner as to cause all the Definitions of a Councel in matters Fundamental in the Faith and in remote Deductions from it to be alike Infallible Now the Romanists to prove there is infallible assistance produce some places of Scripture but no one of them infers much less inforces an Infallibility The places which Stapleton there rests upon are these I will send you the Spirit of Truth which will lead you into all Truth And This Spirit shall abide with you for ever And Behold I am with you to the end of the world To these others adde The founding of the Church upon the Rock against which the gates of Hell shall not prevail And Christ's Prayer for S. Peter That his Faith fail not And Christ's Promise That where two or three are gathered together in his Name he will be in the midst of them And that in the Acts It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us Num. 2 For the first which is Leading into all truth and that for ever All is not always universally taken in Scripture Nor is it here simply for All Truth For then a General Councel could no more erre in matter of Fact than in matter of Faith in which yet your selves grant it may erre But into All Truth is a limited all Into all Truth absolutely necessary to Salvation And this when they suffer themselves to be led by the Blessed Spirit by the Word of God And all Truth which Christ had before at least fundamentally delivered unto them He shall receive of mine and shew it unto you And again He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance which I have told you And for this necessary Truth too the Apostles received this Promise not for themselves and a Councel but for themselves and the whole Catholike Church of which a Councel be it never so General is a very little part Yea and this very Assistance is not so absolute not in that manner to the whole Church as it was to the Apostles neither doth Christ in that place speak directly of a Councel but of his Apostles Preaching and Doctrine Num. 3 As for Christ's being with them unto the end of the world the Fathers are so various that in the sense of the Ancient Church we may understand him present in Majestie in Power in Ayd and Assistance against the Difficulties they should finde for Preaching Christ which is the native sense as I take it And this Promise was made to support their weakness As for his Presence in teaching by the Holy Ghost few mention it and no one of them which doth speaks of any Infallible Assistance farther than the succeeding Church keeps to the Word of the Apostles as the Apostles kept to the Guidance of the Spirit Besides the Fathers refer their Speech to the Church Universal not to any Councel or Representative Body And Maldonate addes That this His presence by teaching is or may be a Collection from the place but is not the Intention of Christ. Num. 4 For the Rock upon which the Church is founded which is the next Place we dare not lay any other Foundation than Christ Christ laid his Apostles no question but upon Himself With these S. Peter was laid no man questions and in prime place of Order would his claiming Successours be content with that as appears and divers Fathers witness by his particular designment Tu es Petrus But yet the Rock even there spoken of is not S. Peter's person either onely or properly but the Faith which he professed And to this besides the Evidence which is in Text and Truth the Fathers come with very full consent And this That the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it is not spoken of the Not erring of the Church principally but of the Not falling away of it from the Foundation Now a Church may erre and dangerously too and yet not fall from the Foundation especially if that of Bellarmine be true That there are many things even de fide of the Faith which yet are not necessary to Salvation Besides even here again the Promise of this stable edification is to the whole Church not to a Councel at least no further than a Councel builds as a Church is built that is upon Christ. The next Place is Christ's Prayer for S. Peter's Faith The native sense of which Place is That Christ prayed and obtained for S. Peter perseverance in the grace of God against the strong temptation which was to winnow him above the rest But to conclude an Infallibility hence in the Pope or in his Chair or in the Romane Sea or in a General Councel though the Pope be President I finde no one Ancient Father that dare adventure it And Bellarmine himself beside some Popes in their own Cause and that in Epistles counterfeit or falsly alledged hath not a Father to name for this sense of the Place till he come down to Chrysologus Theophylact and S. Bernard of which Chrysologus his speech is but a flash of Rhetorick and the other two are men of yesterday compared with Antiquity and lived when it was God's great grace and Learned mens wonder the corruption of the time had not made them corrupter than they are And Thomas is resolute That what is meant here beyond S. Peter's Person is referred to the whole Church And the Gloss upon the Canon-Law is more peremptory than he even to the Denial that it is meant of the Pope And if this Place warrant not the Popes Faith where is the Infallibility of the Councel that in your Doctrine depends upon it Num. 6 The next Place is Bellarmine's choice one and his first and he says 't is a proper place for Proof of the Infallibility of General Councels This Place is Christ's Promise Where two or three are gathered together in my Name there am I in the midst of them S. Matth. 18. And he tells us The strength of the Argument is not taken from these words alone but as they are continued with the former and that the Argument is drawn à Minori
we may be the more certain that you think concerning the Faith as We do Ut ego etiam persuasus sim inhaesitantèr That I also may be perswaded without all doubting of those things which you shall be pleased to Command me Now I would fain know if the Pope at that time were or did think himself Infallble how he should possibly be more certainly perswaded of any Truth belonging to the Faith by Athanasius his concurring in Judgement with him For nothing can make Infallibility more certain than it is At least not the concurring judgement of that is Fallible as S. Athanasius was Beside the Pope Complemented exceeding low that would submit his unerring Judgement to be commanded by Athanasius who he well knew could Erre Again in the Case of Easter which made too great a noise in the Church of old Very many men called for S. Ambrose his Judgement in that Point even after the Definition of the Church of Alexandria and the Bishop of Rome And this I presume they would not have done had they then conceived either the Pope or his Church infallible And thus it continued down to Lyra's time For he says expresly That many Popes as well as other Inferiours have not onely erred but even quite Apostatized from the Faith And yet now nothing but Infallibility will serve their turns And sometimes they have not onely taken upon them to be Infallible in Cathedrâ in their Chair of Decision but also to Prophesie Infallibly out of the Scripture But Prophetical Scripture such as the Revelation is was too dangerous for men to meddle with which would be careful of their Credit in not Erring For it fell out in the time of Innocent the third and Honorius the the third as Aventine tells us That the then Popes assured the world that Destruction was at hand to Saracens Turks and Mahumetans which the Event shewed were notorious untruths And 't is remarkable which happened anno 1179. For then in a Councel held at Rome Pope Alexander the third Condemned Peter Lombard of Hereste And he lay under that Damnation for thirty and six years till Innocent the third restored him and condemned his Accusers Now Peter Lombard was then condemned for something which he had written about the humane Nature of our Saviour Christ. S◠here was a great Mysterie of the Faith in hand something about the Incarnation And the Pope was in Cathedrâ and that in a Councel of three hundred Archbishops and Bishops And in this Councel he condemned Peter Lombard and in him his Opinion about the Incarnation And therefore of necessity either Pope Alexander erred and that in Cathedrâ as Pope in Condemning him or Pope Innocentius in restoring him The truth is Pope Alexander had more of Alexander the Great than of S. Peter in him And being accustomed to Warlike Employments he understood not that which Peter Lombard had written about this Mystery And so He and his Learned Assistants condemned him unjustly Num. 8 And whereas you profess after That you hold nothing against your Conscience I must ever wonder much how that can be true since you hold this of the Pope's Infallibility especially as being Prophetical in the Conclusion If this be true why do you not lay all your strength together all of your whole Society and make this one Proposition evident For all Controversies about matters of Faith are ended and without any great trouble to the Christian World if you can but make this one Proposition good That the Pope is an Infallible Judge Till then this shame will follow you infallibly and eternally That you should make the Pope a meer man Principium Fidei a Principle or Author of Faith and make the mouth of him whom you call Christs Vicar sole Judge both of Christ's Word be it never so manifest and of his Church be she never so Learned and careful of his Truth And for Conclusion of this Point I would fain know since this had been so plain so easie a way either to prevent all Divisions about the Faith or to end all Controversies did they arise why this brief but most necessary Proposition The Bishop of Rome cannot erre in his Judicial Determinations concerning the Faith is not to be found either in letter or sense in any Scripture in any Councel or in any Father of the Church for the full space of a thousand years and more after Christ For had this Proposition been true and then received in the Church how weak were all the Primitive Fathers to prescribe so many Rules and Cautions for avoidance of Heresie as Tertullian and Vincentius Lirinensis and others do and to endure such hard Conflicts as they did and with so many various Haereticks To see Christendom so rent and torn by some distempered Councels as that of Ariminum the second of Ephesus and others Nay to see the whole world almost become Arrian to the amazement of it self And yet all this time not so much as call in this Necessary Assistance of the Pope and let the world know That the Bishop of Rome was infallible that so in his Decision all Differences might cease For either the Fathers of the Church Greek as well as Latine knew this Proposition to be true That the Pope cannot Erre Judicially in matters belonging to the Faith or they knew it not If you say they knew it not you charge them with a base and unworthy Ignorance no ways like to over-cloud such and so many Learned men in a Matter so Necessary and of such infinite use to Christendom If you say they knew it and durst not deliver this Truth how can you charge them which durst die for Christ with such Cowardise towards his Church And if you say they knew it and with-held it from the Church you lay a most unjust Load upon those Charitable souls which loved Christ too well to imprison any Truth but likely to make or keep peace in his Church Catholike over the world But certainly as no Divine of Worth did then dream of any such Infallibility in Him so is it a meer Dream or worse of those Modern Divines who affirm it now And as S. Augustine sometimes spake of the Donatists and their absurd limiting the whole Christian Church to Africa onely so may I truely say of the Romanists confining all Christianity to the Romane Doctrine governed by the Pope's Infallibility I verily perswade my self That even the Jesuites themselves laugh at this And yet unless they say this which they cannot but blush while they say they have nothing at all to say But what 's this to us we envie no man If the Pope's Decision be infallible Legant Let them read it to us out of the Holy Scripture and we 'll believe it Num. 9 In the mean time take this with you That most certain it is That the Pope hath no Infallibility to attend his Cathedral Judgement in things belonging to the Faith For
would fain through Master Roger's sides wound the Church of England as if she were unsetled in the Article of Christs Descent into Hell pag. 21. And he endeavours the same in this pag. 46. In the first he is very earnest to prove That the Schism was made by the Protestants pag. 23. And he is as earnest for it in this pag. 55. In the first he lays it for a Ground That Corruption of Manners is no just Cause of separation from Faith or Church pag. 24. And the same Ground he lays in this pag. 55. In the first he will have it That the Holy Ghost gives continual and Infallible Assistance to the Church pag. 24. And just so will he have it in this pag. 53. In the first he makes much adoe about the Erring of the Greek Church pag. 28. And as much makes he in this pag. 44. In the first he makes a great noyse about the place in St. Augustine Ferendus est disputator errans c. pag. 18. and 24. And so doth he here also pag. 45. In the first he would make his Proselytes believe That he and his Cause have mighty advantage by that Sentence of S. Bernard 'T is intolerable Pride And that of S. Augustine 'T is insolent madness to oppose the Doctrine or Practice of the Catholike Church pag. 25. And twice he is at the same Art in this pag. 56. and 73. In the first he tells us That Calvin confesses That in the Reformation there was a Departure from the whole world pag. 25. And though I conceive Calvine spake this but of the Roman world and of no Voluntary but a forced Departure and wrote this to Melancthon to work Unity among the Reformers not any way to blast the Reformation Yet we must hear of it again in this pag. 56. But over and above the rest one Place with his own gloss upon it pleases him extreamly 'T is out of S. Athanasius his Creed That whosoever doth not hold it entire that is saith he in all Points and Inviolate that is saith he in the true unchanged and uncorrupted sense proposed unto us by the Pastors of his Catholike Church without doubt he shall perish everlastingly This he hath almost verbatim in the first page 20. And in the Epistle of the Publisher of that Relation to the Reader under the Name of W. I. and then agian the very same in this if not with some more disadvantage to himself page 70. And perhaps had I leasure to search after them more Points than these Now the Reasons which moved me to set down these Particulars thus distinctly are two The One that whereas the Jesuite affirms that in a second Conference all the speech was about Particular matters and little or nothing about the main and great general Point of a Continual Infallible Visible Church in which that Lady required satisfaction and that therefore this third Conference was held It may hereby appear that the most material both Points and Proofs are upon the matter the very same in all the three Conferences though little be related of the second Conference by A. C. as appears in the Preface of the Publisher W. I. to the Reader So this tends to nothing but Ostentation and shew The Other is that Whereas these men boast so much of their Cause and their Ability to defend it It cannot but appear by this and their handling of other Points in Divinity that they labour indeed but no otherwise then like an Horse in a Mill round about in the same Circle no farther at night then at noon The same thing over and over again from Tu es Petrus to Pasce oves from thou art Peter to Do thou feed my Sheep And back again the same way F. The Lady asked Whether she might be saved in the Protestant Faith Upon my soul said the Bishop you may Upon my soul said I there is but one saving Faith and that is the Roman B. § 38 Num. 1 So it seems I was consident for the Faith professed in the Church of England else I would not have taken the salvation of another upon my soul. And sure I had reason of this my Confidence For to believe the Scripture and the Creeds to believe these in the sense of the Ancient Primitive Church To receive the four great General Councels so much magnified by Antiquity To believe all Points of Doctrine generally received as Fundamental in the Church of Christ is a Faith in which to live and die cannot but give salvation And therefore I went upon a sure ground in the adventure of my soul upon that Faith Besides in all the Points of Doctrine that are controverted between us I would fain see any one Point maintained by the Church of England that can be proved to depart from the Foundation You have many dangerous Errours about the very Foundation in that which you call the Roman Faith But there I leave you to look to your own soul and theirs whom you seduce Yet this is true too That there is but one saving Faith But then every thing which you call De Fide of the Faith because some Councel or other hath defined it is not such a Breach from that One saving Faith as that he which expresly believes it not nay as that he which believes the Contrary is excluded from Salvation so his Disobedience therewhile offer no violence to the Peace of the Church nor the Charity which ought to be among Christians And Bellarmine is forced to grant this There are many things de Fide which are not absolutely necessary to salvation Therefore there is a Latitude in the Faith especially in reference to different mens salvation To set Bounds to this and strictly to define it for particular men Just thus far you must believe in every Particular or incur Damnation is no work for my Pen. These two things I am sure of One That your peremptory establishing of so many things that are remote Deductions from the Foundation to be believed as Matters of Faith necessary to Salvation hath with other Errours lost the Peace and Unity of the Church for which you will one day Answer And the other That you of Rome are gone farther from the Foundation of this One saving Faith than can ever be proved we of the Church of England have done Num. 2 But here A. C. bestirs himself finding that he is come upon the Point which is indeed most considerable And first he answers That it is not sufficient to beget a Confidence in this Case to say we believe the Scriptures and the Creeds in the same sense which the Ancient Primitive Church believed them c. Most true if we onely say and do not believe And let them which believe not while they say they do look to it on all sides for on all sides I doubt not but such there are But if we do say it
necessary it is not that therefore or for prevention thereof there should be such a Certainty an Infallible Certainty in these things For he understood himself well that said Oportet esse Haereses 1 Cor. 11. There must there will be Heresies And wheresoever that Necessity lies 't is out of doubt enough to prove that Christ never left such an Infallible Assurance as is able to prevent them Or such a Mastering Power in his Church as is able to over-awe them but they come with their Oportet about them and they rise and spring in all Ages very strangely But in particular for that which first caused and now continues the loss of Unity in the Church of Christ as I make no doubt but that the Pride of men is one Cause so yet can I not think that Pride is the adaequate and sole Cause thereof But in part Pride caused it and Pride on all sides Pride in some that would not at first nor will not since submit their private judgments where with good Conscience they may and ought And Pride in others that would not first nor will not yet mend manifest great and dangerous errours which with all good Conscience they ought to do But 't is not Pride not to submit to known and gross Errours And the Definitions of some Councels perhaps the Lateran Constance and Trent have been greater and more urgent Causes of breach of Unity than the Pride of men hath been which yet I shall never excuse where-ere it is Num. 25 How far this one soul-saving Faith extends A. C. tells me I have confessed it not a work for my Pen But he says it is to be learned from that One Holy Catholike Apostolike always Visible and Infallible Romane Church of which the Lady once doubting is now fully satisfied c. Indeed though A. C. sets this down with some scorn which I can easily pass over 't is true that thus I said There is a Latitude in Faith especially in reference to different mens Salvation But to set a Bound to this and strictly to define it Just thus far you must Believe in every particular or incur domnation is no work for my Pen. Thus I said and thus I say still For though the Foundation be one and the same in all yet a Latitude there is and a large one too when you come to Consider not the Foundation common to all but things necessary to many particular mens Salvation For to whomsoever God hath given more of him shall more be required S. Luc. 12. as well in Belief as in Obedience and Performance And the gifts of God both ordinary and extraordinary to particular men are so various as that for my part I hold it impossible for the ablest Pen that is to express it And in this respect I said it with Humility and Reason That to set these Bounds was no work for my Pen. Nor will I ever take upon me to express that Tenet or Opinion the denial of the Foundation onely excepted which may shut any Christian out of heaven And A. C. I believe you know very well to what a narrow Sâ—antling some Learned of your own side bring the very Foundation it self rather than they will lose any that lay hold on Christ the Son of God and Redeemer of the World And as Christ Epitomizes the whole Law of Obedrence into these two great Commandments The love of God and our Neighbour S. Mat. 22. So the Apostle Epitomizes the whole Law of Belief into these two great Assents That God is and That he is a rewarder of them that seek him Heb. 11. that seek him in Christ. And S. Peter was full of the Holy Ghost when he exprest it That there is no salvation to them that seek it in or by another Name Act. 4. Num. 26 But since this is no work for my Pen it seems A. C. will not say 't is a work for his But he tells us 'T is to be learned of the One Holy Catholike Apostolike always Visible and Infallible Romane Church ' Titles enough given to the Romane Church and I wish she deserv'd them all for then we should have peace But 't is far otherwise One she is as a particular Church but not The One. Holy she would be counted but the world may see if it will not blinde it self of what value Holiness is in that Court and Country Catholike she is not in any sense of the word for she is not the Universal and so not Catholike in extent Nor is she sound in Doctrine in things w ch come neer upon the Foundation too so not Catholike in Belief Nor is she the Prime Mother-Church of Christianity Jerusalem was that and so not Catholike as a Fountain or Original or as the Head or Root of the Catholike Num. 27 And because many Romanists object here though A. C. doth it not that S. Cyprian called the Romane Church The Root and Matrix of the Catholike Church of Christ I hope I shall have leave to explain that difficult place also First then S. Cyprian names not Rome That stands onely in the Margin and was placed there as his particular judgement led him that set out S. Cyprian Secondly the true Story of that Epistle and that which led S. Cyprian into this Expression was this Cornelius then chosen Pope expostulates with S. Cyprian That his Letters to Rome were directed onely to the Clergie there and not to Him and takes it ill as if S. Cyprian had thereby seemed to disapprove his Election S. Cyprian replies That by reason of the Schism mov'd then by Novation it was uncertain in Africk which of the Two had the more Canonical Right to the See of Rome and that therefore he nam'd him not But yet that during this uncertainty he exhorted all that sailed thither ut Ecclesiae Catholicae Radicem Matricem agnoscerent tenerent That in all their carriage they should acknowledge and so hold themselves unto the Unity of the Catholike Church which is the Root and Matrix of it and the onely way to avoid participation in the Schism And that this must be S. Cyprian's meaning I shall thus prove First because This could not be his meaning or Intention That the Sea of Rome was the Root or Matrix of the Catholike Church For if he had told them so he had left them in as great or greater difficulty than he found them For there was then an Open and an Apparent Schism in the Church of Rome Two Bishops Cornelius and Novation Two Congregations which respectively attended and observed them So that a perplexed Question must needs have divided their thoughts which of these Two had been that Root and Matrix of the Catholike Church Therefore had S. Cyprian meant to pronounce Rome the Root and Matrix of the Catholike Church he would never have done it at such a time when Rome it self was
off de Vite from this Catholike Vine still as unprofitable Branches Ipsa autem but this Catholike Church remains in Radice suâ in in its own Root in its own Vine in its own Charity which must needs be as ample and as Catholike as it self Or else were it any Particular All Heretical Branches could not be cut off from one Root And S. Augustine says again That the Donatists did not consider that they were cut off from the Root of the Eastern Churches Where you see again 't is still but One Root of many Churches And that if any man will have a Particular Root of the Catholike Church he must have it in the East not in the West at Rome And now lastly besides this out of S. Cyprian to prove his own meaning and sure he is the best interpreter of himself and other assisting Proofs 't is most evident that in the prime and principal sence the Catholike Church and her Unity is the Head Root or Matrix of Rome and all other Particular Churches and not Rome or any other Particular the Head Root or Matrix of it For there is a double Root of the Church as there is of all things else That is Radix Essentiae the Root Head or Matrix of its Essence And this is the prime sence For Essence and Being is first in all things And then there is Radix Existentiae the Root of its Existence and formal Being which always presupposes Being And is therefore a sense less Principal Now to apply this The Catholike or Universal Church is and must needs be the Root of Essence and Being to Rome and all other Particulars And this is the Principal Root Head or Matrix that gives Being And Rome but with all other Particular Churches and no more then other Patriarchal Churches was and is Radix Existentiae the Root of The Churches Existence And this agrees with that known and received Rule in Art That Universals give Essence to their Particulars and Particulars supply their Universals with Existence For as Socrates and every Particular man borrow their Essence from the Species and Definition of a man which is Universal but this Universal Nature and Being of Man hath no actual Existence but in Socrates and all other particular men so the Church of Rome and every other particular Church in the world receive their very Essence and Being of a Church from the Definition of the Catholike Universal Church of Christ But this Universal Nature and Being of the Church hath no actual Existence but in Rome and all other Particular Churches and equal Existence in all her particulars And should all the Particular Churches in the world fall away from Christ save onely One which God forbid yet the Nature Essence and Being of the Universal Church would both Exist and Subsist in that one Particular Out of all which to me most clear it is That for the Churches Being the Catholike Church and that in Unity for Ens Unum Being and Being one are Convertible is Radix the Root Head Matrix Fountain or Original call it what you will of Rome and all other Particular Churches But Rome is no more than other Churches the Root or Matrix of the Catholike Churches Existence or Place of her actual Residence And this I say for her Existence only not the purity or form of her Existence which is here not considered But if the Catholike she be not nor the root of the Catholike Church yet Apostolike I hope She is Indeed Apostolike She is as being the Sea of One and he a Prime Apostle But then not Apostolike as the Church is called in the Creed from all the Apostles no nor the Only Apostolike Visible I may not deny God hath hitherto preserved Her but for a better end doubtless than they turn it to But Infallible She was never Yet if that Lady did as the Jesuite in his close avows or others will rest satisfied with it who can help it Sure none but God And by A. C's leave this which I said is no work for my Pen cannot be learned no not of the One Holy Catholike and Apostolike Church much less of the Roman For though the Foundation be one and the same and sufficiently known by Scripture and the Creeds Yet for the building upon the Foundation the adding to it the Detracting from it the Joyning other things with it The grating upon it Each of these may be damnable to some and not to others according to the Knowledge Wisdome means of Information which some have and others want And according to the ignorance simplicity and want of Information which some others have and cannot help And according to the Negligence Contempt Wilfulness and Malice with Obstinacy which some have against the Known Truth and all or some of these in different degrees in every particular man And that in the whole Latitude of mankinde from the most wise and learned in the School of Christ to the simplest Idiot that hath been so happy as to be initiated into the Faith by Baptism Now the Church hath not this knowledge of all particulars Men and Conditions nor can she apply the Conditions to the Men. And therefore cannot teach just how far every man must believe as it relates to the possibility or impossibility of his salvation in every particular And that which the Church cannot teach men cannot learn of her She can teach the Foundation and men were happy if they would learn it and the Church more happy would she teach nothing but that as necessary to Salvation for certainly nothing but that is Necessary Now then whereas after all this the Jesuite tells us that F. Upon this and the precedent Conferences the Lady rested in judgment fully satisfied as she told a confident Friend of the Truth of the Roman Churches faith Yet upon frailty and fear to offend the King she yielded to go to Church for which she was after very sorry as some of her friends can testifie B. § 39 Num. 1 This is all personal And how that Honourable Lady was then setled in Conscience how in Judgement I know nor This I think is made clear enough That that which you said in this and the precedent Conferences could settle neither unless in some that were setled or setling before As little do I know what she told any confident friend of her approving the Roman cause No more whether it were frailty or fear or other Motive that made her yield to go to Church nor how sorry she was for it nor who can testifie that sorrow This I am sure of if she repent and God forgive her other sins she will more easily be able to Answer for her coming to Church than for her leaving of the Church of England and following the superstitions and errours which the Romane Church hath added in Point of Faith and the Worship of God For the Lady was then living when I answered thus Num. 2 Now
governs should carry weight enough with it to depress Imperial power lower than God hath made it Out of doubt he could not For he well knew that Omnis Anima every Soul was to be subject to the Higher Power Rom. 13. And the Higher Power there mentioned is the Temporal And the Ancient Fathers come in with a full consent That Omnis Anima every Soul comprehends there all without any Exception All Spiritual men even to the Highest Bishop and in Spiritual Causes too so the Foundations of Faith and Good Manners be not shaken And where they are shaken there ought to be Prayer and Patience there ought not to be Opposition by force Nay he knew well that Emperors and Kings are Custodes utriusque Tabulae They to whom the custody and preservation of both Tables of the Law for worship to God and duty to man are committed That a Book of the Law was by Gods own Command in Moses his time to be given the King Deut. 17. That the Kings under that Law but still according to it did proceed to Necessary Reformations in Church-Businesses and therein Commanded the very Priests themselves as appears in the Acts of Hezekiah and Josiah who yet were never Censured to this day for usurping the High-Priests Office Nay he knew full well That the greatest Emperors for the Churches Honour Theodosius the Elder and Justinian and Charles the Great and divers other did not only meddle now and then but did inact Laws to the great Settlement and Increase of Religion in their several times But then if this could not be the Reason why Innocentius made this strange Allusion what was Why truly I 'le tell you The Pope was now grown to a great and a firm height Gregory the Seventh had set the Popedom upon a broad bottom before this Innocents time So that now 't is the less wonder if he make so bold with the Emperor as to depress him as low as the Moon upon no better ground than a groundless Resemblance But beside this prime Reason there are divers other which may easily be drawn out of the same Resemblance For since Innocentius his main aim was to publish the Popes greatness over Kings and Emperors Why doth he not tell us That the Pope is as the Sun and the Emperor as the Moon Because as the Moon borrows all her light from the Sun So the Emperor borrows all his true light from the Pope Or because as the Moon still increases in light so long as she follows the Sun but so soon as ever she steps before the Sun she waines presently and her light decreases So the Emperor so long as he is content to follow the Pope and do all that he would have him his light and his power encrease but if he do but offer to step before though that be his proper place then his light and honour and power and all decrease And this Pope Gregory the Seventh made too good upon the Emperour Henry the Third And Pope Adrian the Fourth and Alexander the Fourth and Lucius the Third with some others upon Frederick Barbarossa And some other Emperours were alike serv'd where they did not submit And I hope no man will blame the Popes Holiness for this For if the Emperours kept the Popes under for divers years together whereas Bellarmine tells us it was against all right they should so do the Pope being never rightfully subject unto them I hope the Pope having now got power enough may keep the Emperors under and not suffer them any more to step before the Sun lest like Moons as they are they lose all their Light Or because as the Moon is but Vicaria Solis the Vicar or Substitute of the Sun as Philo tells us So the Emperor at least in all Spiritual Causes is but the Popes Substitute and that for the Night that his Holiness may sleep the quieter on the other side of the Sphere Or lastly if you will abuse the Scripture as you too often do and as Innocentius did in the Decretal very grosly you may say 't is because the Woman which all grant represented the Church Revel 12. is clothed with the Sun that is with the glorious rays of the Pope and had the Moon that is the Emperor under her feet For this is as good as literal as proper an interpretation of these words as that of Innocentius is of the words Gen. 1. God made two great Lights the greater light to Rule the day and the less to rule the night Thus he or you may give your wits leave to play if you will for the Popes Decretal is a meer fancie But the true reason indeed why Innocentius made it was that above mentioned He was now in that greatness that he thought he might pass any thing upon the Christian world that pleased him And was therefore resolved to bring it into the Body of the Canon that after-times might have a Law to legitimate and make good their Predecessors usurpation over Emperors and Kings And rather then fail of this he would not spare the abusing of Scripture it self Where by the way dares A. C. say this Pope did not erre in Cathedrâ when he was so dazled between the Sun and the Moon that he wanted light in the midst of it to expound Scripture Well I would have the Jesuites leave their practising and remember First that one Emperor will not always be able to establish and preserve one only Uniform practise and Exercise of Religion Secondly that supposing he both can and will so do yet the Jesuites cannot be certain that that one Uniform Exercise of Religion shall be the Romane Catholike And Thirdly That as there is a Body of Earth a world of Confusion to Eclipse their Moon the Emperor so in the same way and by like interposition the Moon when 't is grown too near in Conjunction may Eclipse their Sun the Pope And there is no great doubt but he will considering what some great Kings make of the Popes Power at this day when it pleases them Num. 12 And since we are in this Comparison between the Sun and the Moon give me leave a little farther to examine who A. C. and his fellow-Jesuites with some others would have to be this one Emperor I am not willing to meddle with any the secret Designes of Forein States but if they will express their Designes in print or publish them by Great and Full Authority I hope then it shall be neither unlawful nor unfit for me either to take notice or to make use of them Why then you may be pleased to know They would have another Translation of the Empire from Germany to Spain They think belike this Emperors line though in the same House is not Catholike enough And if you ask me how I know this secret I will not take it up upon any common report though I well know what that says But I
for the Inference which you would draw out of it that 's answered at large already But than A. C. adds That I say but without any proof that the Romanists have many dangerous errours but that I neither tell them which they be nor why I think them dangerous but that I leave them to look to their own souls which he says they do and have no cause to doubt How much the Jesuite and A. C. have said in this Conference without any solid Proof I again submit to judgment as also what Proofs I have made If in this very place I have added none 't is because I had made proof enough of the self-same thing before Where lest he should want and call for Proof again I have plainly laid together some of the many Dangerous errours which are charged upon them So I tell you which at least some of which they be and their very naming will shew their danger And if I did remit you to look to your own souls I hope there was no offence in that if you do it and do it so that you have no cause to doubt And the reason why you doubt not A. C. tells us is Because you had no new device of your own or any other mens nor any thing contrary to Scripture but all most conformable to Scriptures interpreted by Union Consont of Fathers and Definitions of Councels Indeed if this were true you had little cause to doubt in point of your Belief But the truth is you do hold new Devices of your own which the Primitive Church was never acquainted with And some of those so far from being conformable as that they are little less than contradictory to Scripture In which particulars and divers others the Scriptures are not interpreted by Union or Consent of Fathers or Definitions of Councels unless perhaps by some late Councels packed of purpose to do that ill service I have given Instances enough before yet some you shall have here lest you should say again that I affirm without proof or Instance I pray then whose Device was Transubstantiation And whose Communion under one kinde And whose Deposition and Unthroning nay Killing of Princes and the like if they were not yours For I dare say and am able to prove there 's none of these but are rather contrary than conformable to Scripture Neither is A. C. or any Jesuite able to shew any Scripture interpreted by Union or Consent of Fathers of the Primitive Church to prove any one of these Nor any Definition of Ancient Councels but only Lateran for Transubstantiation and that of Constance for the Eucharist in one kinde which two are Modern at least far downward from the Primitive Church and have done more mischief to the Church by those their Determinations than will be cured I fear in many Generations So whatever A. C. thinks yet I had reason enough to leave the Jesuite to look to his own soul. Num. 11 But A. C. having as it seems little new matter is at the same again and over and over it must go That there is but one saving Faith That this one Faith was once the Romane And that I granted one might be saved in the Romane Faith To all which I have abundantly answered before Marry then he infers That he sees not how we can have our souls saved without we entirely hold this Faith being the Catholike Faith which S. Athanasius saith unless a man hold entirely he cannot be saved Now here again is more in the Conclusion than in the Premises and so the Inference fails For say there was a time in which the Catholike and the Romane Faith were one and such a time there was when the Romane Faith was Catholike and famous through the world Rom. 1. Yet it doth not follow since the Councel of Trent hath added a new Creed that this Romane Faith is now the Catholike For it hath added extranea things without the Foundation disputable if not false Conclusions to the Faith So that now a man may Believe the whole and entire Catholike Faith even as S. Athanasius requires and yet justly refuse for dross a great part of that which is now the Romane Faith And Athanasius himself as if he meant to arm the Catholike Faith against all corrupting Additions hath in the beginning of his Creed these words This is the Catholike Faith This and no other This and no Other then here follows And again at the end of his Creed This is the Catholike Faith This and no more than is here delivered always presupposing the Apostles Creed as Athanasius did and this is the largest of all Creeds So that if A. C. would wipe his eyes from the mist which rises about Tyber he might see how our souls may be saved believing the Catholike Faith and that entire without the Addition of Romane Leaven But if he cannot or I doubt will not see it 't is enough that by Gods grace we see it And therefore once more I leave him and his to look to their own souls Num. 12 After this A. C. is busie in unfolding the meaning of this great Father of the Church S. Athanasius And he tells us That he says in his Creed That without doubt every man shall perish that holds not the Catholike Faith entire that is saith A. C. in every Point of it and inviolate that is in the right sense and for the true formal reason of divine Revelation sufficiently applied to our understanding by the Infallible Authority of the Catholike Church proposing to us by her Pastors this Revelation Well we shall not differ much from A. C. in expounding the meaning of S. Athanasius yet some few things I shall here observe And first I agree that he which hopes for Salvation must believe the Catholike Faith whole and entire in every Point Next I agree that he must likewise hold it inviolate if to believe it in the right sense be to hold it inviolate But by A. C's leave the Believing of the Creed in the right sense is comprehended in the first branch The keeping of it whole and entire For no man can properly be said to believe the Whole Creed that believes not the Whole Sense as well as the Letter of it and as entirely But thirdly for the word inviolate 't is indeed used by him that translated Athanasius But the Father 's own words following the Common Edition are That he that will be saved must keep the Faith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Now 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the sound and entire Faith And it cannot be a sound Faith unless the Sense be as whole and entire as the Letter of the Creed And 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is compounded of the Privative particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is reproach or infamy So that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies the holding of the entire