them To all these I have answered formerly in this Treatise and therefore now I shall touch them more lightly That the Roman Church is the Catholick Church he proveth thus because it is a company of Christians instituted by Christ spread over the World and intirely united in the profession of faith and communion of his Sacraments under his Officers And therefore he bids us out of St. Austin either give or take either receive their Church or shew one of our own as good This Argument is grounded upon a wrong supposition that the Catholick Church is a Church of one denonination as Roman or Grecian c. which we doe altogether deny as implying an evident contradiction Secondly we deny that the Roman Church including the Papacy in respect of which it challengeth this universality and to be the Foundation of Christian Religion and the Mistris of all other Churches is instituted by Christ or by his Church this is their own usurpation Thirdly we deny that the Roman Church is spread over the World Divide Christendome into five parts and in four of them they have very little or nothing to doe Perhaps they have here a Monastery or there a finall handfull of Proselytes But what are five or six persons to so many millions of Christian soules that they should be Catholicks and not all the others This was not the meaning of Saint Austin in the place alleged Date ni hi hanc Ecclesiam si apud vos est ostendite vos ommunicare omnibus Gentibus quas jam videmus in hoc semine benedici Date hanc aut furore deposito accipite non a me sed ab illo ipso in quo benedicuntur omnes Gentes Give me this Church if it be with you Shew that you communicate withall Nations which we see to be blessed in this seed It is not a few particular persons nor some hand-fulls of Proselites but multitudes of Christian Nations that make the catholick Church The Romanists are so farre from communicating with all these Nations that they excommunicate the far greater part of them Fourthly we deny that such an exact entire union in all points and opinions which are not essentialls of Christian Religion is necessary to the being of the catholick Church or that the Romanists have a greater unity among themselves or with others then sundry of those Churches which they have excommunicated Fiftly I deny that the Officers of the Conrt of Rome or any of them qua tales are either the Officers of Christ or of his Church And lastly if all this were true well might it prove the Church of Rome a catholick Church that is a part of the catholick Church but not the catholick or universall Church Still there would want universality To be spread through the Christian World is one thing and to be the common faith of the Christian World another thing Secondly he proveth that they did not exclude us but that we did separate our selves because England denyed the Popes sovereignty by divine right before the Pope excommunicated them And so though it was not perfectly Protestant yet it was substantially Protestant I take him at his word Then all the Eastern Northern and Ethiopick Christians are substantially Protestants as well as we for they all deny the Popes sovereignty either by divine or humane right Then all the world were substantially Protestants in the time of the Councells of Constance and Basile except the Court of Rome that is the Pope and his Officers Then we want not bretheren that are substantially Protestants as well as we in the bosome of the Roman Church at this day To seek to obtrude this spirituall Monarchy upon us was causall Schism to excommunicate us for denying it was actuall Schism To prove that we have departed from them in essentialls he only saith that we have left them simply absolutely nay wholy in the communion of Sacraments and publick worship of God and the entire profession of faith which are essentialls to a Church How often hath this been answered already That every Opinion which a particular Church doth profess to be essentiall is either an essentiall or a truth or that every abuse crept into the administration of the Sacraments is of the essence of the Sacraments is that to which we can never give asâ—ent Let them keep themselves to the ancient Creed of the Church as they are commanded by the Councell of Ephesus and we shall quickly join with them in profession of faith Let them use the ancient formes of administration of the Sacraments which the primitive Roman Church did use and we shall not forbear their communion in Sacraments Did the ancient Roman Church want any essentialls Or are the primitive Roman and the present Roman Church divided in essentials If they differ in essentialls then we ought not to joyn in Communion with the present Church of Rome If they differ not in essentialls no more doe we Thirdly he proveth that the other Patriarchates are not the Catholick Church not true parts thereof because they are divided in profession of faith in communion of Sacraments and in Church Officers Yea saith he it were dotage to think that the Catholick Church can consist of hereticall and schismaticall Churches as I cannot deny but they are except I will deny the thirty nine Articles of the Church of England to which I have sworn I answer that those Churches which he is pleased to undervalue so much doe agree better both among themselves and with other Churches then the Roman Church it self both in profession of Faith for they and we doe generally acknowledge the same ancient Creeds and no other and in inferior questions being free from the intricate and perplexed difficulties of the Roman Schools In point of Discipline they have no complaint against them saving that they we doe unanimously refuse to acknowledge the spiritual Monarchie of the Roman Bishop And concerning the administration of the Sacraments I know no objection of any great moment which they produce against them How should they when the Pope allowed the Russians the exercise of the Greek Religion It is true that they use many Rites which we forbear But difference in Rites is no breach of communion nor needeth to be for any thing that I know if distance of place and difference of Language were not a greater impediment to our actuall communion so long as the Sacraments are not mutilated nor sinfull duties injoined nor an unknown tongue purposely used How are they then schismaticall Churches only because they deny the Popes Supremacie Or how are they hereticall Churches Some of them are called Nestorians but most injuriously who have nothing of Nestorius but the name Others have been suspected of Eutychianism and yet in truth orthodox enough They doe not add the word filioque and from the son to the Creed and yet they acknowledge that the holy Ghost is the Spirit of the Son which is the
interessed And that which was uncharitably begun and schismatically may be charitably piously and necessarily continued as by many reasons and instances may be made appear but that it is besides our question CHAP. 9. A defence of our Answers to the objections of the Romanists IN the first place he observeth a difference between Protestants and Roman Catholicks That Protestants doe not charge Roman Catholicks with formall Schism but only with causall Schism whereas Roman Catholicks doe charge Protestants with formall Schism To which I give three answers First if Protestants doe not charge them with formall Schism their charity is the greater and the Roman Catholicks are the more obliged to them Certainly we have better grounds to charge them with formall Schism then they have to charge us But indeed Protestants doe charge the Roman Court and all Roman Catholicks who maintain it and adhere unto it out of ambitious avaritious or other sinister ends and not out of simplicity of heart and invincible or at least probable ignorance with formall Schism Secondly causall Schism may be and in this case of the Romanists is as well formall nay sometimes more formall then actuall Schism or to speak more properly then actuall separation Whosoever give just cause of separation to others contrary to the light of their knowledge out of uncharitable or other sinister ends are causall and formall Schismaticks Whereas they who seperate actually and locally upon just cause are no criminous Schismaticks at all and they who separate actually without just cause may doe it out of invincible ignorance and consequently they are not formall but only materiall Schismaticks Thirdly when the case comes to be exactly weighed it is here just as it is in the case of possibility of Salvation that is to say the very same Protestants doe not charge all Roman Catholicks with formall Schism but only such as break the bond of unity sinfully whether it be by separating themselves or others unduely from the Catholick Communion or giving just cause of separation to others Nor doth R. C. himself charge all Protestants with formall Schism For he confesseth that all those Protestants who erre invincibly doe want neither Church nor Salvation Formall Schismaticks whilest they continue formall Schismaticks want both Church and Salvation therefore whosoever want neither Church nor Salvation are no formall Schismaticks The reason of his former assertion is this because Protestants can name no Church out of whose communion the present Church of Rome departed His reason shewes that he confounds materiall and formall Schism with causall and actuall Schism Whereas actuall Schism may sometimes be only materiall and causall Schism may also sometimes be formall To his reason I give two clear answers First Protestants can name a particular Church out of whose Communion the present Roman Church departed even the pure and uncorrupted Church of Rome which was before it by introducing errors abuses and corruptions into it There is a morall departure out of a Church as well as a locall and acknowledged by themselves to be culpable and criminous Schism Secondly That Church which departs out of the Communion of the Catholick or universall Church is more schismaticall then that which departs only out of the Communion of a particular Church both because our Obligation is greater to the Catholick Church then to any particular Church and because the Catholick or universall Church doth comprehend all particular Churches of one denomination in it When the Court of Rome by their censures did separate three or four parts of the Christian World who were as Catholick or more Catholick then themselves then they departed out of the Communion of the Catholick Church as the Donatists did of old There is but this difference between the Donatists and them that the Donatists did it only by their uncharitable opinions and verball censures but the Court of Rome did it moreover by a solemn Juridicall Decree which is much the greater degree of Schism He telleth us That it is vain to liken them to the Donatists because the Donatists said that the Catholick Church of that time was but a part of the Church as Protestants say now of the Roman for which Saint Austine laughed at them The truth is the Donatists said that they being but a small part of the catholick Church if any part were the true catholick Church and that the true catholick Church was no catholick Church nor any part of it which is expresly contrary to what he saith here Just as the Romanists say now that they themselves being with all their dependents not a fourth part of the Christian World are the catholick Church and that the Patriarchate of Constaentinople which is as large as theirs and the Patriarchate of Alexandria which including the seventeen Kingdomes of Prester Iohn all Christians and dependents upon that Patriarchate is likewise as large and the Patriarchates of Antioch and Hierusalem and all the lesser Patriarchates in the East and the whole Empire of Russia and all the Protestants in Europe are no parts of the catholick Church Is not this to make the part to be the whole and the whole to be nothing beyond that part as the Donatists did Ovum ovo non similius And therefore Saint Austine might well laugh at them or rather pitty them as indeed he did for speaking such evident absurdities Si mihi diceres quod Ego sim Petilianus non invenirem quomodo te refellerem nisi aut jocantem riderem aut insanientem dolerem Sed quia jocari te non Credo vides quid restet If thou shouldest tell me that I am Petilian or any such thing that is evidently fals I should not know how to confute thee unlesse I should either laugh at thy folly or pity thy frenzie But because I believe not that thou jeastest thou seest what remaineth When they tell us in such earnest that the Roman Church is the catholick Church they might even as well tell us that Petilian was Saint Austine Their first objection is that we have separated our selves from the Communion of the Catholick Church to which I gave this answer that we had not separated our selves from the Communion of the Catholick Church for we are ready to beleeve and practise whatsoever the Catholick Church doth unanimously beleeve and practise No nor yet from the Roman Church in the essentialls of Christian Religion or any of them but only in their errors and innovations and that it was the Court of Rome that made the separtion To this answer he takes great exception but as it seemeth to me in a most confused manner For method sake I will reduce all which he saith to four heads First that the Church of Rome is the true Catholick Church Secondly That we have separated our selves from it in essentialls Thirdly That all the other Patriarchates except the Roman are no parts of the Catholick Church Fourthly That we hold no Communion with
Common Prayer from the beginning as an appendix to it Upon this pretended omission Bishop Bonner excepts against Bishop Horne's Ordination nor against the validitie of it what have Parliaments to doe with the essentials of Ordination but against the legality of it as to the Realm of England by reason of the former pretended omission So to take away scruple the Parliament enacted that it should be deemed good in the eye of our English Law The Parliament knew well that they had no power to make that Ordination valid in it self which was invalid in it self nor to make that invalid which was valid This had been to alter the essentials of Ordination But they had power for more abundant caution which never doth hurt to take away that scruple which was occasioned by a Statute of Queen Mary which in truth was sufficiently removed before What is this now to our Registers whether they be authentick or not No we beg no help from any civil Acts or Sanctions to maintain our Ordinations either for matter or form But we are ready to justifie them by those very rules which he saith the Councel of Trent offered to the Protestants namely Scripture Tradition Councels Fathers and especially the practice of the catholick Church But he saith we are not ordered to offer true substantial sacrifice Not expresly indeed No more were they themselves for eight hundred years after Christ and God knows how much longer No more are the Greek Church or any other Christian Church in the World except the Roman at this day Yet they acknowledg them to be rightly ordeined and admit them to exercise all offices of their Priestly Function in Rome it self which was alleged by me in the vindication and is passed over in silence by R. C. in this survey The Greeks have no more mention of a Sacrifice in their Ordination then we The grace of God promotes such a venerable Deacon to be a Presbyter yet the Church of Rome approveth their Ordination and all their other Rites so they will but only submit to the Popes spiritual Monarchy as we have seen in the case of the Patriarch of Muzall and the Russians subject to the Crown of Polonia and the like favour was offered to Queen Elizabeth upon the same condition It is not so long since Pope Gregory erected a Greek College at Rome to breed up the youth of that Nation where they have liberty of all the Greekish Rites only acknowledging the Supremacy of the Pope But though we have not express words for offering of Sacrifice nor the tradition of the Patine and the Chalice no more had their own Ancestors for a thousand yeers yet we have these words Receive the holy Ghost whose sins thou doest remit they are remitted c. Be thou a faithfull dispenser of the Word and Sacraments then which the Scriptures and Fathers did never know more which their own Doctors have justified as comprehending all essentials which being jointly considered doe include all power necessarie for the exercise of the Pastoral Office We acknowledge an Eucharistical Sacrifice of Praise and Thanksgiving a commemorative Sacrifice or a memorial of the Sacrifice of the Cross a representative Sacrifice or a representation of the Passion of Christ before the eies of his heavenly Father an impetrative Sacrifice or an impetration of the fruit and benefit of his Passion by way of reall Prayer and lastly an applicative Sacrifice or an application of his merits unto our soules Let him that dare goe one step further then we doe and say that it is a suppletorie Sacrifice to supply the defects of the Sacrifice of the Cross. Or else let them hold their peace and speak no more against us in this point of Sacrifice for ever Yet in his margent he hath placed a cloud of our Doctors Whitakers Morton Chillingworth Potter Fulke Reinolds Latimer without citing a syllable of what they say saving only Latimer and Reynolds that the name of Priest importeth Sacrifice or hath relation to Sacrifice In good time to doe him a courtesie we will suppose that all the rest say as much Such Sacrifice such Priest Let the Reader learn not to fear dumb shews There is nothing which any of these say which will either advantage his cause or prejudice ours Here he professeth to omit the survey of my last chapter yet because he toucheth some things in it upon the by I am obliged to attend his motion First I wonder why he should term us fugitives If we be fugitives what is he himself No we are Exules excluded out of our Countrie not profugi fugitives of our own accord from our Countrie And we hope that he who goeth on his way weeping and beareth forth good seed shall return with joy and bring his sheaves with him If not God will provide a resting place for us either under heaven or in heaven We praise thee O God we acknowledg thee to be the Lord. In the conclusion of my Treatise I proposed three ready meanes for the uniting of all Christian Churches which seemed to me very reasonable One of them was That whereas some Sects have contracted the Christian Faith over much by reviving some Heresies condemned by the primitive Church and on the other side the Church of Rome had enlarged the Christian Faith over much by making or declaring new Articles of Faith in this last age of the World the Creed or Belief of the Church containing all points of Faith necessary to be known of all Christians should be reduced to what it was in the time of the first four generall Councells I might adde and many ages after No man dare say that the Faith of the primitive Fathers was imperfect or insufficient Against this he maketh three objections first That there are no such fundamentall points of faith as Protestants imagine sufficient to salvation though other points of faith sufficiently proposed be not beleeved This objection is compounded of truth and falsehood That there are such fundamentals he himself confesseth elsewhere which are necessary not only necessiate paecepti but necessitate medii And if he did not confess it the authority of the Apostle would evince it That the belief of these alone is sufficient for the salvation of them to whom no more is revealed he dare not denie And that the beleef of these is sufficient to them who doe not beleeve other truths which are reveled unto them no Protestants did ever imagine Observe how cunningly he confounds the state of the question The question is not what is necessarie for a man to beleeve for himself This is as different as the degrees of mens knowledg but what may lawfully be imposed upon all men or what may be exacted upon other men to whom it is not revealed or to whom we doe not know whether it be revealed or not Then if he would have objected any thing materiall to the purpose he should have said That the beleef of
counterfeit and if genuine whether Melancthons words be rightly rehearsed and if rightly rehearsed at what time it was written whether before he was a formed Protestant or after It appeareth plainly in the words here cited that Melancthon was willing to acknowledge the Papacy only as a Canonicall pollicy And so we doe not condemn it whilest it is bounded by the Canons of the Fathers But then where is their jus divinum or the institution of Christ Where is their absolute or universall Sovereignty of Power and Jurisdiction In all probability if these be the words of Melancthon his meaning was confined to the Roman Patriarchate which was all the Church that he was much acquainted with And that either these are none of his words or that they were written before he was a formed Protestant or that he intended only the Roman Patriarchate is most evident from his later and undoubted writings wherein he doth utterly and constantly condemn the Papall universall Monarchy of the Roman Bishop And lastly what Melancthon faith is only in point of prudence or discretion he thinks no wise man ought to dislike it We are not so stupid as not to see but that some good use might be made of an exordium unitatis Ecclesiasticae especially at this time when the Civill Power is so much divided and distracted But the quere is even in point of prudence whether more good or hurt might proceed from it We have been taught by experience to fear three dangers First when we give an Inch they are apt to take an Ell Tyrants are not often born with their teeth as Richard the the third was but grow up to their excesse in processe of time Secondly when we give a free Alms as Peterpence were of old they streight-way interpret it to be a tribute and duty Thirdly what we give by humane right they challenge by Divine Right to the See of Rome And so will not leave us free to move our rudder according to the variable face of the Heavens and the vicissitude of humane affairs These are all the testimonies which he citeth but he presenteth unto us another dumb shew of English Authors in the margent Whitakers Laude Potter Chillingworth Mountague besides some forreiners But if the Reader doe put himself to the trouble to search the severall places notwithstanding these titles or superscriptions he will finde the boxes all empty without one word to the purpose as if they had been cited by chance and not by choise And if he should take in all the other writings of these severall Authors they would not advantage his cause at all Bishop Mountague is esteemed one of the most indulgent to him among them though in truth one of his saddest Adversaries yet I am confident he dare not stand to his verdict Habeat potestatem ordinis directionis consiliis consultationis conclusionis executionis dellegatam Subsit autem illa potestas Ecclesia auferibilis sit per Ecclesiam cum non sit in Divinis Scripturis instituta non Petro personaliter addicta Let the Bishop of Rome have delegated unto him that is by the Church a power of Order Direction Counsail Consultation Conclusion or pronouncing sentence and putting in execution But let that power be subject to the Church let it be in the Churches power to take it away seeing it is not instituted in the holy Scriptures nor tied personally unto Peter To conclude the same advise which he giveth unto me I return unto himself Attendite ad Petram unde excisi estis Look unto the rock whence ye are hewn Look unto the Church of Hierusalem and remember That the Law came out of Sion and the Word of the Lord out of Hierusalem Look unto the Church of Antioch where the Disciples were first called Christians Look unto the other Eastern Churches in whose Regions the Son of Righteousnesse did shine when the day of Christianity did but begin to dawn in your Caosts Look to the primitive Church of Rome it self Whose Faith was spoken of throughout the whole World and needed not the supplementall Articles of Pius the 4 th Lastly look unto the true catholick oecumenicall Church whose Priveleges you have usurped and seek not to exclude so many millions of Christians from the hope of Salvation and the benefit of Christs Passion In whom all the Nations of the World were to be blessed This indeed is the only secure way both to Unity and Salvation to keep that entire form of Doctrine without addition or diminution which was sufficient to save the holy Apostles which was by them contracted into a Summary and deposited with the Churches to be the true badge and cognisance of all Christians in all succeeding ages more then which the primitive Fathers or rather the representative Church of Christ did forbid to be exacted of any person that was converted from Jewism or Paganism to Christianity And as many as walk according to this rule of Faith Peace be upon them and Mercy and upon the Israell of God FINIS A REPLIE TO S. Ws. REFVTATION OF The Bishop of DERRIES just Vindication of the CHVRCH of ENGLAND THE most of S. W s. Exceptions have been already largely and particnlarly satisfied in the fotmer reply to the Bishop of Chalcedon Yet lest any thing of moment might escape an answer I will review them and answer them generally and succinctly as they are proposed by him To his Title of Downe derry I have nothing to say but that it were strange if he should throw a good cast who seals his bowle upon an undersong Sect. 1. In the first place he professeth to shew the impertinency of my grounds and to sticke the guilt of Schisme not only with colour but with undenyable evidence upon the English Church by the very position of the case or stating of the question between us and this he calleth a little after their chief Objection against us what then is stating of the question and objecting all one I confesse the right position of a case may dispell umbrages and reconcile controversies and bring much light to the truth But as the lion asked the man in the Fable who made the picture we may crave leave to demand who shall put this case surely he meaneth a Roman Catholick For if a Protestant state it it will not be so much for their advantage nor the bare proposition of it bear such undeniable evidence in it I hope a man may view this engine without danger In the beginning of Henry the eighths raigne and immediately before his sustraction of obedience from the See of Rome The Church of England agreed with the Church of Rome and all the resâ— of her Communion in two points which were then and still are the bonds of unity betwixt all her members the one concerning Faith the other Government For Faith her rule was that the Doctrines which had been inherited from their forefathers as the legacies of Christ and his Apostles were solely