the preaching of the Church as touching the Proposition of things to be beleeued but not as the reason of beleeuing For they who propound the doctrine of Faith withall admonish that that doctrine is revealed from God and that God not themselues is to be beleeved And what Is not the holy Catholike Church it selfe an Article of the Creed If it bee why should the rest of the Articles need to be sustained by an higher Principle more then it For if you may be bold to question any of them vntill it be resolued by the Churches authoritie I hope I may be as bold to question the Churches authoritie vntill it be warranted by some farther Principle I demand therefore why you beleeue the Church Because forsooth her authority is infallible And how know you that it is infallible Here of necessity you must either vouch her owne testimonie or betake you to some other thing To stick vpon her testimonie without farther enquirie is absurd For seeing her voice is not the first veritie that being the Prerogatiue of him only who is from all eternity her veracity must needs bee as doubtfull as her infallible authority And indeed this as a very learned Divine exemplifieth it were as if one whose authority is questioned taking vpon him to bee a law-giuer should first make a law and thereby giue himselfe power and afterward by vertue of that power exercise authority over others But if to establish the Churches authority you seek out of her to some other thing as suppose the Scriptures for so I remember you answered me being demanded the same Question then haue I obtained what I would namely that the Church is not the first ground of Faith because by your owne confession there is a former to wit the Scripture Neither is it true that Catholike men hold the Churches authority to be the first Ground For although some pretended Catholikes those I meane who call themselues Roman catholikes may so conceaue of their Church vnderstanding by the Church the Roman church yet neither are they true Catholikes neither is the Roman church the Catholike church neither doe any true Catholikes ground their Faith so True catholikes they are not because they hold a new Faith not that which Catholikely hath beene held in all ages as appeareth by those twelue new Articles lately added to the Creed vnknown vnto the purer times of the Primitiue church Neither is the Roman church the Catholike Church Not in regard of time for Christ had his Church when Rome was not yet Christian. Nor in respect of place for Catholike is Universall Roman Particular that the Church of the whole world this of one Citie or Diocese only Nor lastly in regard of her authority ouer al other Churches for that which she challengeth is but vsurped the Church of Africk in a Councell of two hundred and seuenteene Bishops of whom S. Augustine was a principall with much indignation reiected it and the Greeke church hitherto could never be drawne to acknowledge it And as for those that are true Catholikes they build not their Faith vpon so weake a Ground but rest both it and the Church her selfe vpon the Scriptures The Apostle S. Paul buildeth the whole Houshold of God vpon no other foundation then that of the Prophets and Apostles Knowe thou saith Origen that Christ alwaies appeareth on the mountaines and hills to teach thee that thou seeke him no where but in the mountaines of the Law and Prophets And the Auhor of the imperfect worke on Mathew The Lord knowing the confusion of things that would happen in the latter daies commandeth that such Christians as will receaue assurance of faith fâ—ie to no other thing but the Scripture And Tertullian Take from Hereticks that which they haue common with the heathen that they be content to stint all questions by the scriptures only and they cannot stand And S. Hierom The church of Christ hath for her cities the Law the Prophets the Gospell Apostles she passeth not beyond her limits that is the holy scriptures S. Augustine in the scriptures we learne Christ in the scriptures we learn the Church And againe I say not if we but if an Angell froÌ„ heauen shall deliuer any thing of Christ or his Church or of faith manners besides that which ye haue receiued in the Scriptures of the Law and Gospell let him be accursed And againe he affirmeth that the Church is to be proued by the Canonical bookes of Scripure and nothing else and that they only are the Demonstration of our cause the very foundation and ground plot whereon we are to build N. N. For proofe of this ground Saint Augustine handleth this matter in a speciall booke to his friend Honoratus deceiued by the Manichees as himselfe also sometimes had bin and he entituleth his booke De vtilitate credendi His discourse is this Suppose that wee now first of all did seeke vnto what Religion we should commit our soules to bee purged and rectified Without all doubt wee must begin with the Catholike Church for that shee is the most eminent now in the world there being more Christians in her this day then in any other Church of Iewes Gentiles put together And albeit among these Christians there be Sects and Heresies and all of them would seeme to be Catholikes and doe call others besides themselues Hereticks yet all grant that if wee consider the whole Body of the World there is one Church among them more eminent then all other and more plentifull in number and as they which know her doe affirme more sincere also in the truth But as concerning truth wee shall dispute more afterward now it is sufficient for them that desire to learne that there is a Catholike Church which is one in it selfe wherevnto diverse Heretickes doe faine and devise divers names whereas they and their Sects are called by peculiar names which themselues cannot deny Whereby all men that are indifferent and not letted by passion may vnderstand vnto what Church the name Catholike which all parts desire and pretend is to bee given Thus St Augustine c. I. D. So maine a point as is the last resolution of faith ought to haue beene better warranted then by the single authority of one Father who how eminent soever hee was in his time yet is not his sole word of strength enough to beare vp such a weight Why did you not vouch the testimony of Saint Paul or Saint Peter or some other of the holy penmen of Gods booke which cannot deceiue you then Saint Augustine or any other of the antient Fathers who both haue erred themselues and may mislead you But thus it is with Papists the more the shame the bare name of a Father swayes them more then the clearest passage of holy writ Howbeit this I say not as if we feared the triall of the Fathers for be it known vnto you wee haue more
As the heavenly bread which is the Flesh of Christ after its manner is called the Body of Christ being in truth the Sacramentâ— of Christs Body Marke that which is called Body is not so in truth but only in signe and after a manner Pope Leo Christ being lifted vp into heaven set an end to his Bodily Presence being to abide at the right hand of his Father vntill the times appointed by God for the multiplying of the Sonnes of the Church be accomplished If till then he haue set an end to his Bodily presence then till that time he is no more here Fulgentius the holy Catholike Church throughout the whole world ceaseth not to offer vnto Christ the sacrifice of Bread and Wine in Faith and Charity If a Sacrifice of bread and wine then is it bread and wine after consecration Pope Gelasius certainly the Sacraments of the body and bloud of Christ which wee receiue is a divine thing wherefore by them are wee made partakers of the divine nature and yet the substance or nature of Bread and Wine cease not to bee And verily the image and similitude of the body and bloud of Christ are celebrated in these mysteries And They passe by the worke of the holy Ghost into a divine substance continuing notwithstanding in the propriety of their nature Lo the Substance and Nature of bread remaine and the Sacrament is but an image and Similitude of Christs body What can be more plaine Theodoret Himselfe hath honoured the Visible Symbols with the name of his body and bloud not changing their nature but adding grace vnto nature And againe disputing against an Eutychian Heretike who to overthrow the Humanity of Christ had thus argued that as the signes in the Eucharist are after Consecration changed so the body of our Lord after the assumption thereof was changed into the Divine substance hee bringeth in Orthodaxus thus answering Thou art taken in thine owne nets for the mysticall signes after consecration depart not from their proper nature For they remaine in their former substance and figure and forme and are visible and tangible as formerly they were but are vnderstood to bee thee things they are made and beleeued and are honoured as being the things they are beleeued These passages of Gelasius and Theodoret are the very racke gibbet of you Papists wherevnto the best of you know not what to answere but only that by substance Accident is meant An incredible obstinacy and madnesse and needing rather a Physitian to cure it then a disputer to confute it For with as good reason may you say that by white blacke is meant and by Heaven Hell and any thing by whatsoever Lastly Gregory the Great proueth the truth of Christs body against Eutychius by those words of our Saviour Handle mee and see Can you proue the truth of Christs body in the Sacrament by the same argument Verily if that which is neither felt nor seene be not Flesh Bone neither is the Flesh of Christ in the Sacrament for it is neither felt nor sâ—ene And if bread bee transubstantiated only by vertue of those words This is my body then in the Apostles time there was no Transubstantiation at all For as Gregory saith The manner of the Apostles was only by the Lords prayer to consecrate the host of the Oblation And thus haue you a full grand Iury of the ancient Fathers all of them liuing within sixe hundred yeares after Christ and with joynt consent crossing your new vpstart fiction of the Reall Presence To these I might easily adde a long list of those who succeeded in after times as Bede Rabanus Maurus Walafridus Strabo Bertram Waleram Bishop of Medburg Druthmarus and others not one of them in their times taxed for errour in this point But I will only relate what the Doctrine of the Church of England was about seauen hundred yeares after Christ as appeareth by those Homilies that then were publikely read vnto the people The holy Font water that is called the well-spring of life is like in shape to other waters and is subiect to corruption but the holy Ghosts might cometh to the water through the Priests blessing and it can after wash the body and soule from all sin through Ghostly might Behold now wee see two things in this one creature After true nature that water is corruptible water and after ghostly mystery hath hollowing might So also if wee behold that holy housel after bodily vnderstanding then see wee that it is a creature corruptible and mutable if we acknowledge therein ghostly might then vnderstand wee that life is therein and that it giueth immortality to them that eate it with beleefe Much is betwixt the invisible might of the holy housel the visible shape of his proper nature It is naturally corruptible Bread and corruptible Wine is by might of Gods word truly Christs Body and his bloud not so notwithstanding bodily but Ghostly Much is betwixt the body Christ suffered in and the body that is hallowed to housel The body truly that Christ suffered in was borne of the flesh of Mary with bloud and with bone with skinne and with sinews with humane limmes with a reasonable soule liuing and his Ghostly body which we call the housel is gathered of many cornes without bloud and bone without limme without Soule And therefore nothing is to bee vnderstood therein bodily but all is Ghostly to be vnderstood Thus the Homily and thus much thereof haue I thought good here at large to set downe to the end you may know that our Ancestors in this Iland notwithstanding your loud craks to the contrary haue not alwaies at leastwise in this point beene Papists Besides these testimonies of antiquity wee haue their customes also against you St Hierom reporteth that in the Primitiue times after the holy Communion was ended they were wont to feast together in the Church and to spend the residue of the Eucharist that remained Hesychius saith that it was the custome not to reserue till the morrow as your manner now adaies is but to burne what fragments soeuer remained of the consecrated Elements Evagrius and Nicephorus both doe testifie that the ancient custome of the Church of Constantinople was to send for little children from the schoole such as otherwise were barred from the Communion to giue the remainders of the Sacrament to them Had the Church in those daies verily beleeued that it had been the true and Real body of Christ doe you thinke they would so haue profaned it by feasting vpon it and bestowing it on children Or that they would with such impietie and sacrilege haue burned and consumed it in the fire It is altogether incredible As incredible therefore that they held it to be the Lords Body But of Antiquity enough Fiftly and lastly it implieth in it innumerable contradictions which according to the rule of Logick cannot
this you will remaine during life and then if your life hinder not as you hope it will not you shall enioy everlasting life I. D. What you professe you will not doe that you haue already done Very weake wavering haue you shew'd your selfe in forsaking that religion which is descended vnto vs by succession from Christ and his Apostles and hath alwaies beene taught and maintained in the Catholike Church to embrace a new vpstart superstition vtterly vnknowne to the Primitiue times and growne out of the earth but some two or three nights agoe What Motiues you then had for your revolt I knowe not They that knewe you well speake of some other thing rather then Conscience The best construction I can set vpon it is this you had beene but badly informed in the truth And now least you should incurre the imputation of levitie and inconstancie if you returned to vs againe I feare you haue obstinately resolved to close your eyes and not to see the truth how brightly soever it shine vpon So that the saying which I thinke I haue some where read in Tertullian is verified vpon you Miserable is the case of that man who was perswaded before hee was instructed and afterward refuseth to be instructed because hee is perswaded The sayings of Vincentius Lirinensis and S. Augustin we well allow of but the application of them to your selfe hath more face then forehead in it For as of old Dioscorus the Heretike cryed out in the Councell of Chalcedon I am cast out with the Fathers I defend the doctrine of the Fathers I passe not beyond them in any point and I haue their testimonies not barely but in their very bookes even so you and wish no more modesty nor truth then he I follow vniversality antiquitie and consent in my Beleefe I stand to the Faith that hath beene held in all places in all seasons by all or the most Bishops Priests Doctors in Christianitie I follow a Church begun by entrance of nations authorized by miracles encreased by charitie established by continuance in which is succession from Saint Peters Chaire and knowne of all by the name Catholike But soft good sir how is all this proued For you cannot bee ignorant that we deny al these things affirming the clean contrary that the Romish Synagogue is not the Church S. August speakes of but altogether degenerated from it that the points in difference betwixt vs were neither Vniversall nor Ancient but sprung vp of late ever as they rose vp mightily opposed by the most famous Clerks of their times If you would perswade vs otherwise you may not thinke to prevaile with your strong imaginations but you must convince vs with sound demonstrations wherein God wot the best of you all are as weake as water For as for your selfe I cannot but wonder that knowing no more then you haue picked out of the writings of two or three sneaking Friers you yet talke so coÌ„fidently and presumptuously of Vniversalitie Antiquity and consent in all places and seasons of all Bishops Priests and Doctors as if either your selfe had liued all the while to see it with your eyes or had read all the story of the Church and whatsoever monuments they haue left behind them If you thinke you may be so bold and confident vpon your Author tell vs I pray you why we may not be as bold and confident on our The rather seeing your writers are open maintainers of Equivocation and I knowe not what pious frauds and lies which our men even from their hearts detest abhorre But why should either we or you trust so much vnto deceitfull man The safest course would be with the wise â—ereans to search the Scriptures whether these things be so or not He that shall doe this with an honest heart and out of the loue of truth cannot but finde satisfaction vnlesse hee fayle that hath promised seeke and yee shall finde Verily one testimonie from the mouth of God and his sacred word wil be of more force to settle the Conscience then ten thousand of those Topicall arguments probabilities wherewith your Author gulleth and beguileth you But where you say that the Roman Church is by all both friends and enimies knowne and called by the name Catholike you shew your selfe to be a pleasant and merry man It may bee some of vs at some times may haue called some Recusants Catholikes What then Doe we therefore indeed count you so Nothing lesse for wee call you not so in earnest as if you were so but only in jest and by way of Irony because you affect to bee called so Otherwise then thus wee never either count or call you or your Church Catholike Why Should wee seeing you your selues howsoever in word you retaine it yet in effect seeme to disclaime it calling your selues Roman Catholikes For Catholike is Vniversall Roman Particular that is of the whole world this of one Citty So that Roman Catholike is as much as to say Particular Vniversall that is Not catholike Catholike Whence it followeth evidently that while you restraine your Faith to Roman you vtterly cut it off and your selfe withall from being Catholike Hauing therefore lost the kernell why are you so greedy of the shell Of the name I mean being destitute of the thing Content your selfe with Roman leaue Catholike vnto vs. For wee are indeed the true Catholikes holding all that Faith and only that Faith which the Apostles preached and was generally beleeued throughout the World An ancient friend of mine and a worthy Scholler being demanded in a Stationers shop in Venice while there he followed the Lord Embassadour what was the difference betweene vs here in England and the Catholikes answered None at all for wee count our selues good Catholikes But the party being loth to be put of so pressed him againe to know the difference betwixt vs here and them there and was answered This that wee beleeue the Catholike Faith contained in the Creed but beleeued not the thirteenth Article which the Pope had added to it But it being replied that hee knew none such the Extravagant of Pope Boniface was brought where hee defines it to bee altogether of necessity to salvation to euery humane Creature to bee vnder the Bishop of Rome The beleefe of this thirteenth Article thus patched vnto the rest by your thirteenth Apostle may perhaps make you Bonifacian or Roman but the beleefe of the other twelue makes vs I am sure true and perfect Catholikes Whether you allow vs the name or not it matters nothing as neither whatsoever nicknames you impose vpon vs. For by the grace of God wee are what wee are and it is neither the one nor the other that can make vs other then wee are As neither can you by assuming the name of Catholike or any other Sectaries by calling themselues Illuminates or Vnspotted Brethren make your selues to be that which indeed you are not For as for Reformers although such Corruptions
Prince of Physitians saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 time is that wherein season is it may not be doubted but God hath ordained such a time for it as was every way most seasonable And truly did S. Augustin say Omnia proprijs locis temporibus gessit Saelvator our Saviour acted all things in their proper times and places Let vs therefore a little more particularly enquire touching this time and season and here first in what age of the world secondly in what yeare of his owne age thirdly and lastly in what time of that yeare he suffered As touching the age of the world it was not instantly vpon the creation thereof nor yet soone vpon the fall of man but a long time after euen towards the end of foure-thousand yeares and the beginning of the last age of the world called therefore in Scripture the fulnesse of time and the last daies This time was of old foretold by the Prophets For although the incarnation and suffering of the Messias was for a while preached indefinitely without designation of any certaine time as namely vnto Adam and Abraham yet afterward it pleased God to reveale it more definitely as by Iacob the scepter shall not depart from Iudah nor a law-giuer from betweene his feet vntill Shiloh come and by Daniel that seauenty weekes after the going forth of the Commandement to restore build Ierusalem being well neere expired the most holy should be annointed and Messias be cut off At the end of which time there was a generall expectation of the Messiaâ— among the Iewes as appeareth by Scripture 〈…〉 that very time he came and suffered in the flesh as by the same Scripture is purposely declared Some that are counted skilfull in Chronologie and the computation of times place the Passion of Christ in the yeare of the world three thousand nine hundred fiftie and three Others I knowe reckon otherwise but the numbâ—â— of yeares where in they differ is so small that it is little oâ— nothing at all to be reckoned of Haply you will demand why it pleased God rather to appoint this time then any other I answer because this time was of all other the most seasonable fitting The time before the fall and while man stood yet in his integritie could no way be fit For as our Saviour saith He came not to call the iust and againe the whole need not the Physitian There being therefore as yet no sicknesse nor wound neither was there any need of physicke or salue Had man persisted in his innocencie Christ had never beene incarnate nor had suffered To haue suffered soone after the fall would also haue beene very inconvenient For it was reason that man sinning by pride should haue a time to humble him to see his miserie to seeke helpe and to exercise his faith The dignitie also of our Saviours person was such and the worke of redemption so important that so much haste could not wel stand with either And if Christ suffering so lately shall at his second comming scarce finde faith on the earth what a scarcity of faith would there haue beene and how cold would charity haue waxed by this time had hee suffered so long agoe and presently vpon the fall For which cause also it was not to bee deferred vnto the last period of the world least in the interim religion and the knowledge of God should quite bee extinguished Besides it 〈◊〉 â—it that some time should be allowed betweene the worke of our redemption and glorification to the end that the power of God our Saviour might bee praised and spread abroad our faith exercised and tried not onely in regard of things past and present but future also and our thankfulnesse testified by our faithfull and diligent serving of him The duest time therefore was by the wisdome of God chosen and Christ came and suffered neither too soone nor too late but in that season when both Iewes and Gentiles were come to their ripenesse the one to be broken off by reason of their incredulitie the other to be grafted in through Gods goodnesse and mercy For as touching the Iewes they were now growne to such an height of impietie that as Iosephus saith had the Romans neuer so little deferred their desolation either the earth would haue swallowed them or a deluge of waters haue drowned them or fire from heaueÌ„ haue consumed them for Sodom was never so abominable As for the Gentiles their fulnesse was now come in they were growne white and ready for the harvest and the calling of them so long delayed was now to be commenced And so much for the age of the world As touching the yeare of his age wherein hee suffered it was if wee may beleeue Irenaeus about the fiftieth which he voucheth to be an Apostolicall tradition But indeed he is fowly mistaken as is generally agreed vpon by all Where by the way may bee obserued what small credit is to be giuen to Fathers in point of tradition The ground of his opinion was that of the Iewes Thou are not yet fiftie and hast thou seene Abraham But they spake at randome and after the manner of disputers grant him more then might well be admitted The common receaued opinion is that hee suffered being three and thirtie compleate in the beginning of his foure and thirtieth Howbeit Scaliger and that as it seemes not without good reason addeth one yeare more and placeth his Passion in the beginning of his fiue and thirtieth For taking it as granted that at his Baptisme he was full thirtie betweene that and his Passion he findes as hee supposeth fiue Passeovers The first in the second of Iohn And the Iewes Passeover was at hand The second in the first of Iohn After this there was a feast of the Iewes which he proueth to be Easter by that in the former Chapter Say not yee there are yet foure months and then commeth harvest The third in the twelfth of Mathew and the sixt of Luke where his Disciples walking through the corne fields plucked the eares of corne The fourth in the sixt of Iohn And the Passeouer a feast of the Iewes was nigh The fift and last was that wherein he was crucified Which being so then Christ being baptized in his thirtieth compleate and dying in the fift Passeouer after his suffering must of necessity be in the beginning of his fiue and thirtieth But about this I will not contend The oddes of one yeare cannot be great Enquire wee rather why hee suffered at this age First because it was vnfit that old age should creepe into that nature which was so neerely vnited vnto the eternall sonne of God Secondly to testifie how dearely he loued vs that was content then to die for vs when as yet he was in the very flowre and vigor of his age Thirdly mystically to teach vs that as hee grew in age and stature and then being come