the king as vnto the chiefe And to conclude he saieth Honour all men Loue brotherly felowship feare God honoure the king Markâ— also howe Tertullian a godlie Father agreeth with the Apostle against your supâ—rioritie We honour saith he the Emperoures maiestie as a man next vnto GOD for so is the Emperour greateâ— then all men while he is lesse then onelie the true God. Of this minde waâ— Pope Gregory as hee sheweth in an Epistle which he writeth vnto Mauritiuâ— the Emperour Beholde saith he Thuâ— will Christe answeare you by me beinâ— both his and your most humble seruantâ— I haue committed my priests into youâ— handes as for my parte I beyng subiect vnto your Maiesties commaundâ—ment haue caused your order to be senâ— throughout diuerse parts of the world â–ª So that by the premisses it plainelâ— appeareth what dangerous errours and corrupt doctrine moste repugnant to Christe your Churche of Rome hath taught the people of God. Papist 18 LET anie Protestante in the whole worlde prooue vnto me that their Churche coulde rightly be called Catholike which was so particular that â— man aliue coulde name a place where â—y such churche was or that it might bee â—lled holie which had neither Baptisme â—r anie other sacrament to sanctifie anie â— her felowes withall or that it coulde bee â—e which as it grewe vp in the worlde was â—uided into so manie sundrie sectes â–ª or that â— might be called Apostolike which coulde â—uer make an accompt by orderly successiâ— from anie apostolike man or that the seâ—ete base and disordered congregation was â—er of that maiestie that it might require â—e obedience of all nations or that it was â—er able to gather generall councels or exâ—cise discipline vpon offendours or that â—hese titles proper by scripture and doctours â— the true church could euer be chaleÌ„ged by â—ght to their congregation I meane these â—itles following Corpus Christi the bodie of Christ Sponsa Christi the spouse of Christ â—nicè dilecta Christo the dearely beloued of Christ Amica Christi Christes louer Doâ—us dei Gods house Columba speciosa the beautifull Doue Columna veritatis thâ— piller of truth Ciuitas Dei the citie of Godâ— Ciuitas super montem posita a Citie set vpoâ— a hill Hortus conclusus a close garden Fons signatus a fountaine sealed vp Sponsa agnt The spouse of the Lambe Answeare 18 YOu doe vâ—ge often this Catholike Church and doe seme as of right to challenge iâ— to be your Churche of Rome but how vntruely I haue partely touched before This worde Catholike doth signifie vniuersall as in deede the true church of God is vniuersally spread and scattered abroade in all coastes and countries of the worlde and so doe diâ—erse good writers speake of it Saint Augustine sayeth That the catholike Churche is dispearsed throughout the whole earth And iâ— another place hee sayeth That the Church is called Catholike because she is vniuersally perfect and halteth in nothing and is poured throughout the whole worlde An other saith That the vniuersall Churche is Hierusalem the citie of the liuing God which comprehendeth the congregation of the electe and chosen written in heauen An other sayeth That the churche is truely called catholike which is separated by sincere pure and vnspotted communion or felowship from all vnfaithful persons and from their successours and companions These thinges of duetie appertaine vnto the Churche First that it is vniuersall and therefore as I haue sayde before it is not limited eyther to place time or person Secondarily that it is of â—he elect whome God in his secrete and â—rcane knowledge hath sealed vnto life eâ—erlasting Thirdly that it hath no felowâ—hippe with the vnfaithfull and with such â—s will not beleeue the trueth Neuerâ—helesse in the visible churche there be of â—ll sortes mixte together both good and â—adde beleeuers and hypocrites darâ—ell and pure wheate But to answeare â—our interrogation You woulde knowe Howe the Protestantes churche can be calâ—d the true Catholike and Apostolike â—hurche And I woulde demaund the like â—f you howe your Churche of Rome can â— knowne to be the true churche of god â—ruly there is an vnfallible rule set down readie howe the true Churche of God may be knowne and howe this controuersie may easily be decided For if we will beleeue the holie Apostle of God he telleth the Ephesians That they are no more straungers and Forrenners but citizens with the sainctes and of the howshould of God and are built vppon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophetes Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe corner stone in whome all the building coupled together groweth to an holy temple in the Lorde So that you may see that the true Church of God is discerned and knowen by the Scriptures The true sheepe doe heare the voice of Christ and will not heare a stranger And so the godly father Augustine saith That in the scriptures wee learneâ— Christ in the Scriptures wee learne the Churche Wherefore doe wee not then reteine in them both Christe and his Church And writing against the Donatists being notorious heretikes he saith Betwixt vs and you this cometh in question where the church is what shall wee doe nowe in this matter â–ª Shall wee seeke for the church in our owne words or in the words of her heade which is our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke that wee ought to seeke it rather in his woords who is the truth and doth best of all knowe his owne body So Chrisostome saith That since the time that Heresies inuaded the church there can bee no triall of true Christianitie neither any other refuge of Christians which woulde know the true faith but onely the scriptures of God and therefore he which will know the true Church of God howe shall he know it but onely by the Scriptures Thus it appeareth that the true Church of God dooth defend her selfe onely by the Scriptures and woord of God which your Church of Rome doeth vtterly refuse for that you boldly affirme that the Scriptures haue not their strength neither receiue their authoritie from god But from the Church of Rome Yea moreouer you say That the holy Church of Rome hath power by a singular priuiledge graunted vnto her to open and to shut vp the gates of the Kingdome of heauen from whom shee listeth and that this power of binding and loosing is no lesse in your church of Rome then it is in Christ But you will say that I doe sclaunder you in saying That you affirme the Scriptures of God to haue their strength and authoritie from the church of Rome Truly one of your owne writers hath these wordes Who soeuer leaneth not sayth he to the doctrine of the Romaine church and to the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome as vnto the vnfallible rule of God of which Doctrine the holy Scripture taketh her force and authoritie he is an heretike He saith further That
hath cast away Gods holie â— worshipping images and idols and goâ—horing from God after her owne inâ—ns hath rebelled against the words â— Lord and despised the counsell of the â— high Therefore came the iust iudgeâ— of God vppon her as it did vppon the â—sh church of old Where the Lord saith your iniquities are ye solde and for â—r transgressions is your mother forsaken Againe Pleade with your â—ther pleade with her for shee is not wife neither am I her husband buâ— her take away her fornications c. I make her like a wildernesse and â— her for thirst and I wil haue no pitieâ— on her children for they are childreâ— fornication Loe this is the iudgemeâ— that Romish harlot which hath her dâ—ling in that great citie which ruleth â— the Kings of the earth who hath â— the kings of the earth drunken with cuppe of her fornication who is the â—rie mother of whoredome and of all the hominations of the earth which is druâ— with the bloud of the Saintes and with bloud of the martyrs of Christ who with tenne kings doeth fight against the Laâ— But the Lambe shall ouercome them â— they that be on his side the chosen â— faithful for he is the king of kings and Lord of lords To him be all honour and glorie for euer â— An answeare vnto the â–ª Papist which made this Offer or Challenge Papist CHrist did commit at his departing hence the testimonie of that trueth whiche he 〈◊〉 for the câ—â—uersion of all nations to the beliefe in him â—â—trâ—â— church of God which then stoode â—â—pally and almost onely in the persoâ—â— of â— Apostles and of a fewe moe that by their â—ching and others afterwarde of their â—ng the Christian religion might be planâ—â— all nations coastes and corners of the â—â— Wherefore I aske the Protestant â—t Church that was which conuerted all â—sâ— countries that nowe be Christen to the â—th of Christe and let him shewe me that â—er his Churche conuerted anie people or â—nde in the earth from Idolatrie or Gentiâ—â— or Iudaisme to the true religion of Christ or that this his faith was taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie or anie other Churche but the knowne Catholike Church to haue done this And I recant Answeare TRue it is that Christ did commit the preaching of the Gospell vnto the Apostles and vnto a few moe and gaue them this commaundemeÌ„t That they should go vnto all the world and preach the same Gospel vnto al nations who very painfully executed their office conuerted manie of sundrie countries to the truth Neuerthelesse suche was the rage of the wicked Emperoures Tyrantes of that time that the doctrine of the Gospel was not vniuersally receiued nor generally taught as it appeareth at large by the historie of the Acts of the Apostles as by the assembling of the Apostles in corners by their preaching in the night season in priuat houses Yet we confes that the voice of the Apostles was sounded abroad to al the world so that as Tertullian saith the Parthians the Medians the Elamites the people of Mesopotamia of Armenia c and many other nations and prouinces known vnknowen haue receiued the Gospel of Christ Saint Paule tooke comfort and reioyced in his imprisoment for that there were some euen in Neros court that beganne to geue eare to the Gospell Of the same matter writeth Eusebius that the court of Valerian the Emperour was now become the church of god so he saieth because that some of his familie beleued the truth albeit the Emperour himself was a tyrant Euen in that sense it might haue bene truelie saide that the churche of God was in king Achab his house when wicked Iezabel his wife did most of all persecute Goddes children and when Elias complained that he onelie was left aliue seeing that Obadiah gouernour of Achabs house feared God and fed an hundred Prophetes with the meate whiche came from Iezabels table But for breâ—ities sake I will answeare to youre queâ—ion which seemeth to consist on these two â—ointes First What Church it was which â—onuerted all countries that nowe be Chriâ—ten to the faith of Christe Secondarilie whether the religion or faith of the Protestantes was euer taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie Whosoeuer shall diligently peruse the ecclesiasticall histories or the bookes of the auncient Fathers of the churche they shall easily perceaue with what difficultie Christianitie was embraced sith that the name of Christ was so odious to the Emperour of Rome whose Empire was exceeding large thaâ— whosoeuer professed himselfe to be a Christian was tormented moste cruelly vnto death So that it cannot bee proued that manie nations or countries were wholly christened or receiued the gospel of Christ but in secrete manner vntill the time of Constantine the great which was three hundred yeares after Christ or thereabout For before that time whosoeuer sincerelie preached the Gospell hee was forthwith accused of sedicion of preaching heresie and of new strange doctrine They were charged commonly by the Heathen to bee adulterers against kinde Manquellers Killers of children Churchrobbers most wicked most hurtful the enimies of mankinde guiltie of all kinde of wickednesse Enimies against the Goddes against the Emperoures against the lawes against good order against nature it selfe whatsoeuer mischiefe happened the Ethnikes 〈◊〉 impute it alwayes to the Christians The citie of Athens which had beene the â—â—â—taine of all knowledge was become the sinke of most horrible idolatrie Where Pâ—ule preaching Christ the Philosophers â—â—â—e Epicures and Stoikes resisted him 〈◊〉 saide what will this babler say â–ª Others said he semeth to be a setter forth of strange Gods Others saide may we nâ—t know what this new doctrine wherâ—â— thou spekest is in such rage the Ethniks and Infidels continued against the Christians vntill God of his mercie raised vp that worthie Emperour Constantine who aduaunced mightely the Gospell suppresâ—â—â— the enimies thereof and gaue the truth free passage throughout his dominion and â—mpire In his time all nations were called from Idolatrie Gentilitie and Iudaisme so continued manie hundred yeares vntill the Diuel was let loose and superstiâ—on inuaded the churche so that albeit â—e name of Christianitie remained afterâ—arde vnder the Popes gouernement yet Christes religion was abolished and abanâ—oned It is faith in Iesus Christe and â—he profession of true religion whiche maketh a Christian and not the outward name and therefore suche as were falle away from Christ his Gospell vnto the inuentions of man or suche as were coÌ„uerte onelie in name not being instructed in trâ— doctrine were no more Christians then the shadowe of a man is a man orâ— picture the thing which it doth represenâ— so that it was Nomen sinere Christian iâ— name and not in deede By the Turke aâ— so both the name and profession of a Christian was altogether vanquished Thuâ— much for
faith saythâ— thus In this battaile of diuells notwithstanding the godly Princes the souldiers the Ecclesiasticall Prelats subiectes be ouerthrowen yet euermore some remaine in whom the truth of faithe and the righteousnesse of a good conscience is preserued And although there remaine but two men in the world yet in the same church then al meÌ„ yong old for those yeres perished with out hope of mercy because they coulde not vnite them selues and be incorporate to the companie and congregation whereof they neuer hearde nor coulde by anie meanes surmise Therefore let anie man aliue proue me that either anie man could euer out of the trewe Churche be saued or that anie other companie could bee knowne for the true and onely Church but our common catholike societie or that all men were damned for a thousand yeares togither because they coulde not surmise of anie other Church then that which practised all holie functions which Christ left for our saluation â—n the worlde And I recant Answeare 12 COncerninge your question whether anie man for the space of a thousande â—eeres of blindnesse could be saued out of the Protestantes Churche wee doe not yeld so much vnto you that your blinde Church continued a thousande yeares but of that I haue sufficiently spoken before and haue shewed in what manner it began howâ— iâ— grewe and increased and when it came to full perfection You haue moreouer framed albeit vncunningly a dilemma or captious proposition wherein you meanâ— to intrappe vs in these words If say you for the space of a M. yeres the people could be saued by the popish sacraments then theâ— was away to heauen without Gods church â— then al are daÌ„ned which died within the â—â—â— passe of these M. yeres Whiche argumeâ— is vntrue in either parte for wee neitheâ— can ascribe saluation to your sacramenteâ— neither do we coÌ„demne those which died â— the time of ignoraunce but referre them â— God 's secret iudgement Furthermore â— answere that without the Church of Goâ— there is no saluation but this Churche â— not bounde nor tied to place time or peâ—son but is inuisible not knowne saue onlâ— to GOD who causeth his lighte to shinâ— forthe of darknesse who doth by his holâ— spirite breathe where he thinketh goodâ— Who is no accepter of persons as Pâ—ter saith But in euerie nation he that feareth God and worketh righteousnes is accepted of him Who is sure in his promises cannot denie himselfe And Saint Paule groundinge vpon Gods election and mans faith saith That the foundation of God remaineth sure hath his seale that the Lord knoweth who are his Man cannot iudge whom God hath chosen For although Elias supposed all the children of God in Israel to haue been murdered by wicked Iesabell and cried out I onely am left aliue Aunswere was made him by God That hee had seuen thousande in Israell that had not bowed there knees vnto Baall And therefore we will not iudge those which haue died in ignorance for want of knowledge but referr al to Gods secret Iudgement who knoweth whom he hath chosen Touching the visible church Saint Augustine saith That acording to gods secret predistination there be manie sheepe without the Church and manie wolues within the Church for he knoweth them and hath them marked that knowe neither God nor them selues So that we neither condemne olde nor younge rich nor poore noble nor simple but leaue them vnto the Lorde who knoweth his God is able in a moment to turne mans harte The theife that did hang vppon the right hande of our sauiour Christ when he desired him to remember him when he shoulde come into his kingdom was most louingly receiued I haue knowen sundry persons which haue ben trained vp al their life time in your popish religion and vppon their deathbed when they did see no waye but one they haue renounced all your trumperie and popish woorship and haue dyed faithfull Christians to mans iudgement Therefore I ende this matter with that saying of the Apostle That Christ is able to haue compassion vppon them that be ignorant So we referre all things vnto Christ as vnto our onely heade and Captaine who hath conquered all our enemies and reconciled vs to God his father You repose a trust and confidence in your Sacramentes wherevnto you doo ascribe saluation vsing them as a way or meanes to climbe vp to heauen as though they coulde sanctificand conferre grace which albeit you did vse them according vnto Christes institution which you haue cleane altered and doo not agree therewith in anie one pointe yet they were but visible signes of inuisible grace So we say that they bee true significations of Gods eternall grace beeing ministred according to the rule which Christ hath left But if grace were necessarily ioyned with the outwarde Sacramentes then the wicked receiuing the Sacramentall signes shoulde also receiue grace which is farre from them I will not vrge you with manie authorities for the proofe hereof whether the sacraments conteine grace or no Reade but your owne writers and they can satisfie you herin Bonauenture one of your own side saith Wee maye not in anie case saye that the grace of God is conteined in the Sacramentes substantially as water in the vessell or medicine in the boxe for to vnderstaÌ„d it so it were erronious But the Sacraments are saide to conteine the grace of God because they signifie the grace of God. An other of your schoole-doctors saith The speciall grace of the passion of Christ is conteined in the Sacraments of the Church euen as the power of the woorkeman is conteined in the instrument or toole wherewith he woorketh Euen as the children of the Prophets sayde to Elizeus the Prophet O thou man of god death is in the pot for that they feared some poisoning herbe to be in the pot because of the bitternes And as the wise man saith Death and life are in the power of the tongue and they that loue it shall eate the fruite thereof His meaning is that by the well or euill vsing of the tongue commeth eyther good or bad But thus much of these matters Papist 13 AGaine shew me anie church or immagin if you can by good reason a Church of Christ in which there is no gathering together for preaching no spirit of prophesying no rodde of correction no order of ministring nor anie spirituall function that can be named prooue me that there can be a true Church for a thousande yeares togeather and lacke all thâ—se things and withall that there was one vntrue Church which for those many yeares onelye practised these offices to the saluatioÌ„ of many And geue me a good reason why this church that alwaies hath had these functions should be a false Church and the other that wanted them all shoulde be a true Church and I recant Answeare 13 THese be verie base childish reasons to prooue the true
the comming of Christ sauing Iohn Bapâ—iste and he thirty yeares of age before hee preached was there no churche or was Gods spirite decayed and his trueth vanâ—uished all this while â–ª God forbid that â—ee shoulde bee so rashe in iudgement as â—nce to thinke so For Gods spirite which â—s the coÌ„forter of the faithful hath instrucâ—ed the churche of God whether it hath appeared or bene hidde whether it hath beene close or open whether in manie or â—n fewe euer since the beginning So Christe Iesus hath promised that his spirit shoulde remaine with the children of God though the wicked would not receiue him because they see him not neither knowe him The comfortable Spirite of God doeth woorke saluation â—oth adopt into Gods fauoure doth puriâ—â—e our heartes doeth moue vs to all good and godlie actions doth comforte vs in al daungers and confirmeth vs to expecte the comming of our sauiour Christ Therfore to this spirite with the Father and the Sonne be all honour laude and praise Papist 16 SHewe me againe whether anie man can be saued except he beleeue the catholike Church and that is it which in the face of all the world hath practised preaching the conuersion of nations to the obedience of the Gospell that hath alwayes had the ministring of the Sacramentes the hearing of matters in coÌ„trouersie the orderly succession of Bishoppes vniformitie in solemne ceremonies vnitie in faith that hath in her selfe all holy functions of the spirite a woorking of miracles remission of sinnes the true sense and interpretation of Gods word that is beawtified with diuersitie of states commended by Christ in the Gospell as with virgins martirs with confessors and the rest Prooue vnto me that this is not the true Church or that we be bounde to obey this Church and none other in all controuersies and doubts raised by the difficultie of the scripture or by the vaine contention and pride of heresie And I recant Answeare 16 Suppose that there was neuer any man which would looke to haue saluation by â—ods mercies in Christ that euer denied â—e Church of god So we beleeue that â—od hath had his Church euer since the â—ginning which Church is the Company â— the faithfull dispersed through out the â—ce of the whole earth which church is the â—ouse of Christ builded vppon the doctrine â— the Apostles and Prophets Christ him â—fe beeing the heade corner stone Yet â—e vtterly denye your Church of Rome to â— this true Church of god The reasons â—d causes why we will not close handes â— agree with your Church be these First â—ur Church dooth refuse Christ Iesus to â— her head in that she setteth vp her Pope â— be her head wherin she wil be gouerned â— all things euen against gods holy word â—erefore your Church is not of god That â—hrist is the heade of the true church not â— but the spirit of God testifieth that God â—ath appointed Christ ouer all things â— be the head to the Church which is â—s body And again The husband is the â—yues head euen as Christ is the heade â—f the Church and he is the same which â—eueth saluation vnto his body Your church appointeth otherwaies to be saueâ— by then onely Christes death and passion yea doth persecute Christ in his members taketh away the key of knowledge whiâ— is the woorde of God from Gods people for that ye wil not suffer them to haue it â— their knowne tongue you feede them nâ— with the sweete pastures of the holy scriptures but with the dregges of your blind Ceremonies and vayne traditions yoâ— teach them to pray in a straunge languagâ— to woorship the creature in steede â— the Creator you mixe the woorde of Goâ— with your owne deuises not to the benefite of Gods people but to get mony anâ— to enrich your selues with the spoile â— their soules You sett out all your practises as you call them to sale For of youâ— church it is saide Omnia Romae vaenaliaâ— All thinges are to bee had for monye aâ— Rome The Poet saith That Templeâ— Priestes altars sacrifices crownes fierâ— frankencense yea heauen is to be soldâ— and God him selfe But you giue smalâ— credit vnto this author Will you hearâ— what one of your approoued doctors saith Roma dat omnbus omnia dantibus omnia Romae cum praecio Rome doth â—iue to al men which doo giue all things â—o her all thinges are there to be had for â—ony at Rome Your owne decretales â—y That Rome is the head of coueteousâ—esse and therefore all thinges are there â—o be solde Your Popedome is in part â—ainteined with the tribute of Curtesans â—r common stues which is the rewarde of â—niquitie Thus you forbid lawfull matriâ—onie and mainteine open lecherie And â—hereas you would haue the worlde to beâ—eeue that your Church of Rome hath alwayes had the due and right administratiâ—n of the Sacramentes vnitie in faith orâ—erly succession of Bishoppes euen from Peter vniformitie in solempne ceremonies â—ebating of matters in controuersie all holy functions commended by Christ as virgins martirs and confessors and that all Churches are bound to obey the Church of Rome in all controuersies and doubtes raysed by the difficulty of the scriptures it shall appeare to all men that these are but vaine ostentations and shewes without truth But you wil aske me who shal iudge this matter for sometimes you stay vpon Counceles sometimes vppon Fathers sometimes vpoÌ„ customes Truly I would but wishe you and euery indifferent reader to examine whether your masse doe agree worde by worde with the last supper of our sauiour Christe You haue culleâ— foorth these woordes Hoc est corpus meum This is my bodie And therevppoâ— haue framed your masse The wordes be comfortable if you would take theÌ„ in a spirituall sense and meaning to signifie vnto vs the bodie of Christe as the godlie Father Augustine doth expouude those same woordes Non dubitauit dominus dicere hoc est corpus meum cum daret signum corporis sui Our Lord saieth hee doubted not to say This is my bodie when as he gaue a signe of his bodie Likewise Tertullian saith Hoc est corpus meum hoc est figura corporis mei â–ª This is my bodie that is to say This is a figure of my body But what shal I speak of al the abuses of your masse as the consecration the eleuation the aduocation the priuate receiuing the vnknowen tongue the ministration in one kinde keeping the â—uppe from the Laie people making it a propiciatorie sacrifice for the quicke and dead which all are moste contrarie vnto Christe his institution in his last supper Furthermore you haue corrupted Baptisme and haue deuised fiue other Sacraâ—entes more then Christe hath ordained â—d appointed in his worde Touhcing your succession of bishopes â—d vnitie in religion they are two things â—hich sound verie well together If so bee â—u can proue your succession out of the â—orde