there was any hope from his errors Num tu solus sapu Art thou onely wise The Answer 1 The Protestants will readily yeeld that we ought to giue more credit to the vniuersall company of Catholickes that haue bin in all times spread ouer the world in all places then to one priuate man or some few his fellowes as the Iesuite requireth but when they haue done they will tell him again that he and his faction is not that company nor Luther and themselues those priuate men I grant the Papacy was spread ouer the world as the frogs were spread ouer all Egypt and the multitudes great that followed it but the Catholicke company is not defined by that as Luther and we are not proued to be priuate men either because we were but a few or because we stood opposed to the Church of Rome 2 But the next point is false Vox populi est vox Dei It should be Vox populi Dei est vox Dei but then the Iesuite will be troubled to assure vs that he and his people are this populus Dei They are a Apoc. 17.15 populus turbae gentes linguae But that will do them no good maruell if it condemne them not But yet he hath englished his vox populi false For all men say it not that Papistry is the truth but as I haue shewed in all ages many haue misliked it and at this day do and most heauily complained vnder the burthen of it and long wished for the reformation that God wrought in Luthers time Who opposed himselfe I grant against many but not against all in his time and much lesse against the generall voice of ancient times which saw not the Papacy And the obiectiō mētioned by Luther to haue bene made vnto him in his minde when he began against the Pope was not any worke of Gods spirit to reclaime him from his error which was none but it was the temptation of the flesh that set before his eyes what iudgement the world would giue of his doings which alwaies pleadeth for the multitude and stumbleth at the litle flocke of Christ The which thought his heart apprehending but not following his case was all one with b Exod. 4.1.10 Moses c Ier. 1.6 and Ieremie that were not a little troubled when God would send them so few against so great multitudes Luther wanted neither the diuel nor men to hinder him § 61. Luthers words be these Praefat. de abroganda Missa priuata ad fratres August ord in Coenob Wittenberg Quoties mihi palpitauit tremulū cor reprehendens obiecit fortissimum illud argumentum Tu solus sapis Totne errant vniuersi Tot secula ignorauerunt Quid si tu erres tot tecum in errorem trahis damnandos aeternaliter How often said he did my trembling heart pant and reprehēding me did obiect that most strong forcible argument Art thou alone wise Haue there so many vniuersally erred Haue so many ages bene blind liued in ignorance What rather if thou thy selfe erre and drawest so many after thee into errors who for this cause shall be damned eternally This did almightie God obiect to Luther and this may well be obiected to anie priuate man or anie few that leauing the Kings streete or beaten way of the Catholike Church will seeke out a by-path as being in their conceit a better and easier and more direct way to heauen to them I say may be said Are you onely wise Are all the rest in all former ages fooles Haue you onely after so many hundred yeares after Christ found out the true faith and the right way to heauen Haue all the rest liued in blindnesse darknesse and errors And consequently are you onely them that please God and shall be saued Sine fide impossibile est placere Deo Without the right faith it is vnpossible to please God Heb. 11. And were all the rest so many millions of our forefathers and ancestors manie of which were most innocent and vertuous liuers and some of which shed their bloud for Christ his sake were I say all those hated of God And did all those perish Were all those damned Shall all these endure vnspeakeable torments in hell for euer O impious cruell and incredible assertion The Answer 1 Luthers words alledged were nothing else but a suggestion wherby Satan laboured to hold him still in ignorance by putting feare into his heart when he should consider the generality and antiquitie of the errors against which he was to deale and the poore conceit that the world ouergrowen with the said errors would haue of him d Ier. 20 7. So said Ieremy O God thou hast deceiued me and I am deceiued Thou art stronger then I and hast preuailed against me I am in derision all day long and the whole people mocketh me The which to be the sence of his words appeareth by looking into the place And if Luther had not apprehended the motion in this sence it had bene small discretion for him to reueale it Besides there is nothing in the words sufficient to induce any man of reasonable vnderstanding to Papistry which is a certaine token that Gods spirit did not suggest thē to draw him thereunto For if the Papacy were the truth God would moue men therunto by such reasons as were effectuall Here is the argument e Symmach relat apud Prud. Ambr. that the Pagans vsed in defence of their Idolatrie word for word If long continuance may bring authoritie to religions our faith made to so many ages must be obserued and let vs follow our forefathers who so happily haue followed theirs but who seeth not the weakenesse of such kinde of reasoning 2 Moreouer supposing that which the Iesuite saith might be obiected to priuate men leauing the beaten way of the Catholicke Church to seeke out a by-path of their owne yet we deny the Papacy to haue bin that beaten way or the religion of the Protestants any by-path It was I grant much troden bare worn with trauell but let all Papists take heed of that and be well aduised who were the trauellers f Mat. 7.13 For wide is the gate and spacious is the way that leadeth to destruction and many there be that go it Other high way then this we haue forsakē none But whē the Church of Rome led men out of that way wherein Christ and his Apostles walked the whole Primitiue Church after them into a new way of her owne so craftily misleading them that few in comparison saw the error the rest whom God directed had good reason to call them backe againe into the true way of the Church which though it were much growen vp and made difficult for want of vse yet was it the old way still for all that wherinto God himselfe calleth men g Ier. 6.16 Stand by the waies behold and see and aske for the old paths which is the good way and walke
Romish multitude and though their persons were not the rule yet when they followed that which is the rule we beleeued them § 13. The fourth and last conclusion of this question is that this infallible rule which we ought obediently to follow in all points of faith is the doctrine and teaching faith and beliefe of the true Church This I proue Because to this agree all the conditions which I said to be requisite in the rule of faith First this is a thing infallible as shal be proued Secondly it is a thing easie to be knowne Thirdly it is such a thing as may vniuersally resolue and determine vs in all questions and doubts and instruct all sorts of men in all points of faith And consequently whosoeuer will obediently yeeld assent to this rule in all points as we all professe in our Creed saying Credo Ecclesiam catholicam shall not erre in anie point That these three conditions of the rule of faith agree to the doctrine and teaching of the vniuersall or catholike Church I proue The Answer 1 We would not stand with the Iesuite about this conclusion but freely grant it if no more were meant thereby then the words make shew of that the doctrine and faith of the vniuersall Church is the rule of faith For that doctrine is onely the contents of the Scripture which we yeeld to be the rule For a In 1. Ep. Ioh. tract 3. Austin saith Our mother the Church giueth her children milk out of her two brests the old and new Testament But he hath a further reach and meaneth a higher matter First that the Churches word and authoritie is the rule without referring the same to the Scripture Secondly that the Church of Rome is this true and vniuersall Church Thirdly that all the authoritie and efficacy therof is in the Pope alone This is the plaine English of the conclusion howsoeuer the words be faire and cleanely and the Iesuite defending it must shew all the properties of the rule to appertaine to the present Church and Pope of Rome or else he doth but trifle and spend time Digression 16. Shewing how the Papists pretending at euerie word the Catholicke Church meane nothing thereby but the Popes determination 2 First howsoeuer these words be tollerable the doctrine teaching faith and beliefe of the true Church is the infallible rule in all points to be followed yet the Popish meaning is absurd that whatsoeuer the Church teacheth though it be not contained in the Bible must be accepted as matter of faith and that vpon her owne authoritie Yet thus they hold as I haue b Digress 1. c. 6.9 shewed and may further be perceiued by the Iesuites words in this section Whosoeuer will yeeld assent to the Church in all points as we professe in our Creed saying I beleeue the Catholicke Church shall not erre in any point Which words of the Creed meaning no more but c Ruffin expos Symbo that we beleeue there is one holy Catholicke Church whereof our selues are members he expoundeth of yeelding assent in all points to it which exposition may be further vnderstood by that which d Staplet def eccles potest adu Whitak l. 1. cap 9. Rhem. annot 1. Tim. 3.15 Bristo dem 44. other Papists say more fully I beleeue the Catholicke Church the literall sence whereof is that thou beleeuest whatsoeuer the Catholicke Church holdeth and teacheth are to be beleeued Which exposition is a glosse beside the text And yet this is tollerable in comparison of the next 3 For hauing deuolued all power ouer to the Church in the next place they define this Church to be the Romane company For e Mot. 12. in marg Bristo saith The Romane Church is the Catholicke Church and f Annot. Rom. 1 8. idem B. roÌ„ Annal. tom 1. an 58. nu 49. See Posseu bibl select lib. 4. c. 13. â— Interdum quoqueâ—aud sâ—â—iâ— the Rhemists The Catholicke and Romane faith is all one Wherein their meaning is to win authoritie to the Romish faction perswading men there is no saluation but in that religion and making roome for themselues in all those places of Scripture which commend vnto vs the Catholicke Church of Christ Which is a iest so grosse that it deserueth to be smiled at rather then confuted And yet it stayeth not here neither but goeth a degree further which me thinketh is a note aboue éla 4 For as they take all authoritie and sufficiency from the Scripture and giue it the Church so all the Churches authoritie they giue to the Pope So saith Gregory of Valence g Dispuâ— theo tom 3 â—isp 1. â—u 1. punct 1. p. 24. Item Cater 22 q. 1. art 9. 10. Dom. Ban ibid. apud D. Tho nam Pro eodem omnino reputatur authoritas Ecclesiae vniuersalis authoritas concilij authoritas sum mi pontificis By the Church we meane her head that is to say the Romane Bishop h Analys fidei pag. 136. In whom resideth that full authoritie of the Church when he pleaseth to determine matters of faith whether he do it with a Councell or without Thomas saith i 22. q 1. art 10. The making of a new Creed belongeth to the Pope as all other things do which belong to the whole Church k 22. qu 1 â— art 2.3 Yea the whole authoritie of the vniuersall Church abideth in him l Defens fid Triâ—ent lib. 2. Andradius saith All power to interpret the Scripture and reueale the hidden mysteries of our religioÌ„ is giuen from heauen to the Popes and their Councels Yea m Decis aur cas part 2 l. 2. c 7 nu 40 saith Graffius The common opinion is he may do it without them And so n De Christ l. 2 c. 28. saith Bellarmine Himselfe without any Councell may decree matters of faith And o Sum Syluest verbo fides nu 2. Syluester The power of the Catholicke Church remaineth all in him And p De Planctu Eccl. lib. 1. artic 6. Aluarus Pelagius We are bound to stand to his iudgement alone rather then to the iudgement of all the world beside And the canon Law saith q In Sext. extt. Ioh. 22 tit 14 c. cum inter in gloss It were heresie to thinke our Lord God the Pope might not decree as he doth r Dist 19. in Canonicis glos ibid. Yea his rescripts and decretall Epistles are canonicall Scripture Stapleton Å¿ Praefat. Princip fidei doctrinal saith The foundation of our religion is of necessitie placed vpon the authoritie of this mans teaching in which we heare God himselfe speaking And finally the Iesuite himselfe t §. hereafter saith All Catholicke men must necessarily submit their iudgement and opinions either in expounding the Scripture or otherwise to the censure of the Apostolicke seate and God hath bound his Church to heare the chiefe Pastor in all points By all which we see what is
meant by those importunate bragges of the Catholicke Church and why the Papists rely so much vpon it x Audito Ecclesiae nominâ— hostis expalluit Campian tat 3. apud Posseu bibl select lib. 7. c. 19. they make their vaunts that the very name of the Church appalleth vs and good reason if the Pope be it Gods enemie and ours But in the meane time themselues might blush thus to tell the ignorant a tale of the Church and will the foolish Protestants be wiser then the Catholicke Church y Nomen callide retinuit tem ipsam funditus desiniâ—ndo fustulit Camp vbi supra and yet this Church when things come to the reckoning is nothing else but the Pope § 14. And first that the doctrine of the vniuersall Church in all points is infallible thus I reason If our Sauiour Christ haue promised to any company of men the assistance of himselfe and of his holy Spirit for this speciall purpose to teach and instruct them in euery truth giuing withall peculiar commission to them to teach all nations and warrant and commandement to all to heare them and to do in all things according to their saying and further threatning that he that will not heare them and do in all things according to their saying should be accounted as an Ethnicke and Publican then certainly the doctrine and the teaching of this companie of men is in all points infallible and most true For looke what he promiseth must needs be performed and whatsoeuer he warranteth or commandeth to be done may safely and without danger of error be done nay must of necessitie be done especially when he threateneth those that will not do it and consequently if he promise to send his holy Spirit to teach anie companie of men all truth it is not to be doubted but that he sendeth this his Spirit and by him teacheth them all truth And since the teaching of this Spirit is infallible we haue not to doubt but that this companie to which this promise should be made should in all points be infallibly taught the truth If also the same our Sauior gaue warrant and commandement that we should heare and do in all points according to the saying of this companie of men being thus infallibly taught and hauing commission to teach we may not likewise doubt but that they shall infallibly teach vs the truth in all points For otherwise by this his commandement we should sometimes be bound to heare and beleeue that which were not true and to do that which were not right and good which without blasphemie to Christs veritie and goodnesse can no way be taught But so it is that Christ our Sauiour hath in holy Scripture promised giuen commission warranted commanded and threatened in maner aforesaid therefore we haue not to doubt but that a certaine companie of men there be to wit that companie which is called the true catholike Church which both is in all points taught infallibly by the holy Spirit and is in like maner to teach vs all truth The promise we haue Mat. vltim Ego vobiscum sum omnibus diebus vsque ad consummationem seculi I am with you all the dayes vnto the end of the world In which words is promised the continuall presence of Christ himselfe the maister of truth with his holy Church not for a while then nor for a while now but all the dayes vnto the end of the world Also we haue another promise Ioh. 14. Ego rogabo Patrem meum alium paracletum dabit vobis Spiritum veritatis vt maneat vobiscum in aeternum I will aske my Father and he will giue you another paraclete that he may remaine with you not onely for sixe hundred yeares but for euer And to shew vs for what purpose he would haue his holy Spirit to remaine with vs for euer he saith againe Cum autem venerit ille Spiritus veritatis docebit vos omnem veritatem Iob. 16. And when the Spirit of truth shall come he shall teach you all truth The commission we haue Mat. vltim Euntes docete omnes gentes The warrant also we haue Luc. 10. Qui vos audit me audit By which words appeareth plainely that our Sauiour Christ would haue vs to heare and giue credit to his Church no lesse then to himselfe The commandement we haue Mat. 23. Super cathedram Mosis sedent Scribae Pharisaei omnia ergo quaecunque dixerint vobis seruate facite Out of which words we may gather that we are commanded in all points to do according to the doctrine of the Prelates of the catholike Church though it should happen that their liues should not be coÌ„mendable or good For though in this place our Sauiour do onely speake of the chaire of Moses in which the priests of the old law did sit yet it must be vnderstood à fortiori of the chaire of S. Peter in which the Priests of the new law do succeed So did the ancient Fathers vnderstand and especially S Austin Epist 165. who saith thus In illum ordinem Episcoporum qui ducitur ab ipso Petro ad Anastasium qui nunc in eadem cathedra sedet etiamsi quisquam traditor per illa tempora subrepsisset nihil praeiudicaret Ecclesiae innocentibus Christianis quibus Dominus prouidens ait de praepositis malis quae dicunt facite quae faciunt facere nolite Into the order of Bishops which is deriued from S. Peter himself vnto Anastasius who now sitteth vpon the same chaire although some traitor had crept in for the time he should nothing hurt or preiudice the Church of the innocent Christians vnto whom our Lord prouiding saith of euill Prelates what they say do what they do do not The threats we may gather out of Luc. 10. where our Sauiour saith Qui vos spernit me spernit He that despiseth you despiseth me signifying what sinne it were not to heare but to despise the preaching of our Sauiour Christ himselfe that we should account it the same sinne to despise and not to giue heed and credite to his catholike Church insinuating thereby a threat of like punishment for the said contempt Also Mat. 18. the same our Sauiour saith Si Ecclesiam non audierit sit tibi sicut Ethnicus Publicanus Thus you see our Sauiour Christ hath promised vnto his Church the continuall assistance of himselfe and of his holy Spirit to teach vs all truth Moreouer that he hath giuen commission to it to teach vs yea and hath warranted and commanded vs in all points to heare and to do according to the saying of his Church and hath threatened greatly those that will not heare the Church which proueth that it pertaineth to this Church to instruct vs in all points of faith that we ought to learne of it in all matters of religion the infallible truth The Answer 1 The drift of all this section is to proue that the doctrine of the vniuersal Church in
from going and enquiring to her Nay rather we aduise all people desirous of the truth to follow Austins counsell howsoeuer such as the Iesuite is to make vs odious giue out the contrary For Austin first attributeth the perfection of truth to the Scripture onely Secondly then he alloweth vs to go to no Church but that which from the Scripture is demonstrated to be a true Church Thirdly he saith neuer a word that the Church should be the rule or free from all error but onely that they should enquire her iudgement which in that questioÌ„ at that time he knew to be sound though possible he were not ignorant that x Euseb hist l. 7. c. 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. many famous Churches formerly had not bene so but had decreed the very error that he now confuted Lastly y Aduer Cresc l. 2. c. 21. within fiue leaues of the place alledged he hath these words The Church is subiect to Christ and therefore may not preferre her selfe before him for he alway iudgeth rightly but Ecclesiasticall iudges being but men for the most part are deceiued Let the Iesuit yeeld vs thus much and he shall find himselfe a great deale short of that he reckoneth for the certaintie of his Churches teaching and that Austin maketh not the Church the rule as he would haue it but a meanes to direct vs in things obscure by the Scriptures whose iudgement is to be followed vpon their authoritie and onely so long as she determineth according to them Which point I feare the Iesuite will mislike 6 Yet thus the Church it selfe teacheth vs. For what Bishops what Pastors what Councels what men what Churches haue not erred though z Mal. 2.7 Eph. 4 11. Heb. 13.17 God haue bidden vs enquire their iudgement and seek vnto them The Papists will say particular Churches may erre but how did the Councels of Ephesus Seleucia and Remino misse it a The Bishops at Ephesus were 132. at Selculeucia 16â— at Ariminum 400 whereof aboue 300. were Catholicke Bishops where the flower of all the Christian Pastours of the world were assembled whereof b Dial. aduer Lucifer Ierome complained The whole world groned and wondred to see it selfe Arrian Which imperfection hath hung so fast vpon all Councels and Churches that c Ep. ad Proco Nazianzen writing to a friend of his saith He neuer saw any councel haue a good end And d Adu profanâ— nou c. 4. Vincentius confesseth that not onely some portion of the Church but the whole Church it selfe is blotted with some new contagion So that the very Papists themselues some of them conuinced by experience and the Churches owne confession are driuen in the point to come home vnto vs. For thus writeth e Turrecrem sum de Eccl l. 2 c. 91. l. 3. c. 60 a learned Cardinall That which we say the Church cannot erre in faith or manners must thus be taken according to the doctrine of the fathers that God doth so assist his Church to the end of the world that the true faith shall neuer faile out of the same For to the worlds end there shall be no time wherein some though not all shall not haue true faith working by loue Doth not the Iesuite see here that though all of them lay downe the conclusion that the Church cannot erre yet some of them expound it so that they come roundly home to vs and do as good as deny it againe Therefore let the Iesuite iarre no more about this matter but submit himselfe to the Cardinals exposition and so we will both sit down friendly together at his feete awaiting till either he or some other speake Protestant againe and so agree vs in the rest of the questions that are depending § 16. The first condition therefore of the rule of faith to wit to be infallible agreeth to the teaching of the Church Now that the doctrine and teaching of the Church hath the other conditions to wit that it is such as may be easily knowne to all sorts of men and such as may vniuersally teach them in all points will easily be seene after I shall set downe and proue that this Church is alway visible and further what particular companie of men be those which be this true Church For hauing by this meanes assigned a particular companie of men who according as I haue proued are in all points taught by the holy Ghost and are by God his appointment in stead of Christ in all points to teach vs the infallible truth there will no doubt remaine but that their teaching is such as may be vnderstood of all since they are liuing men that can conforme their teaching to the capacitie of all sorts and such as may sufficiently in all points instruct vs in the right faith that the appointment and ordinance of God by which as I haue proued they are ordained to teach vs in all points may not be in vaine and frustrate of the effect intended by him Let vs therefore first see whether the Church or companie of faithfull men of which I haue alreadie spoken be alway visible or not The Answer 1 The first condition of the rule of faith to be infallible agreeeth not to the teaching of the Church because the Iesuite by the Church meaneth a See Digress 16. nu 4 onely the Pope and all Papists hold b Propterea enim sedes Apostolica seu Romana Ecclesia infallibilis dicitur quia is qui prae est illi authoritateÌ„ habet per se infallibilem Gr. de Val. comment Theol tom 3. p. 247. D. the infalliblnes therof consists in his authority that caÌ„not erre and nothing else Neither can he assigne any company or state of men whereby she may be supposed to manifest her teaching but the same may be subiect to error and in experience hath erred as we see in Councels and Doctors and all other meanes which she hath vsed in teaching vs except that of the Scriptures onely as I haue shewed 2 Next though it were granted to be infallible and the next also yeelded which the Iesuite now beginneth to take so much paines to proue that it were both easie to be knowne and could teach vs vniuersally in all points yet were it not proued thereby to be the rule because there is more required to the rule then this as I haue shewed and this it borroweth from the Scripture as the Moone doth her light from the Sun which sheweth against all exception that the Scripture it selfe is the rule and of greater authoritie then the Church in that these things are originally in the Scripture from whence the Church but borroweth whatsoeuer she partaketh thereof though c Igitur quicquid habet boni aâ— perficit Scriptura quicquid pleni ac solidi id habet ab Ecclesia quae implet eum qui implet omnia pag. 434. Ecclesia aâ—unt coÌ„stituta est vt tertimonium exhibeat diuinis libris quis
whereby all men at all times may come to the true faith must be alway visible to all sorts of men But Christ appointed the Church to be the rule whereby all men at all times may come to the true faith Ergo the Church must be alway visible to all sorts of men This argument is faultie two wayes first in the assumption for the Church is not this rule as l Digr 3. § 14 per totum I haue shewed at large neither hath the Iesuite alreadie proued it but onely said it as here he beggeth it to proue that which before he brought to proue this 5 But yet it is a subordinate meanes for the bringing men to saluation in that God teacheth his elect by the ministerie thereof m Ad ipsam salutem ac aeternam vitam nemo peruenit nisi qui habet caput Christū habere autem caput Christū nemo poterit nisi qui in eius corpore fuerit quod est ecclesia Aug. de vnit eccl c. 16. neither can any man be made the child of God except first he be conceiued in the wombe of the Church But hence it followeth not that the Church is therefore visible or knowne to all sorts of men because visiblenesse and inuisiblenesse are but differences of the Catholicke Churches outward state here vpon earth and the elect may partake her ministery in either of these estates that is to say he may be effectually ioyned to the Catholicke Church though it do not visibly appeare in outward shew by the ditection of Gods word and spirit and by the teaching of a few faithful Christians that lie hid in the world as wheate doth in his chaffe and so consequently Gods elect neuer want necessary meanes of knowledge saluation because some part of the Church or other first or last though hidden from the world is manifested to them 6 As for the reprobate I grant that many times the Church is neither knowne to them nor yeeldeth them any meanes whereby the faith may be knowne And I adde further that this is Gods very ordinance whereby he vseth to punish their obstinacie For as sometime n Esa 6.9 Ioh. 12.40 he taketh away their heart and sometime o 2. Thess 2.11 giueth them ouer to strong delusions to beleeue lies so sometime he sends p Amos 8.12 a famine of the word of God that they shall wander from sea to sea and from the North to the East they shall runne to and fro to seeke the word of the Lord and shall not find it and sometime q Apoca. 2.5 compared with 1.20 taketh away the candlesticke which is the visible Church as I haue touched r § 3. nu 2. before All which notwithstanding it is true that God would haue all men saued and come to the knowledge of the true faith This I say is true not vniuersally in euery sence but as the Apostle meant it whose sence is declared by ſ Enchir. c. 103. cont Iulian. l. 4. c 8. de praedest sanct c. 8. de corrept grat c. 14 Austine thus No man is saued but whom he will saue not that there is no man whom he would not haue saued but that none is saued but whom he willeth and therefore is to be intreated that he would because what he willeth of necessitie must be done And by t De incarnat grat c. 31. Fulgentius thus By all these men whom God would haue come to saluation is meant not altogether all mankind but the vniuersitie of all that shal be saued who therefore are called All men because them all the goodnesse of God saueth out of the number of All and that out of euery nation condition age language and prouince The same exposition is also giuen by u Aug. vbi supra Haymo Anselm in 1. Tim. 2 Mag. 1. d. 46. others and commended by x Alliac c. 1. q. 14. art 1. ad 1. pag. 206. Durand 1. d. 46. qu. 1. ad 2. p. 134. Greg. de Valent. tom 1. p. 325. tom 2 p. 894 Biel. lect 68. lit f. pa. 189. Vocabul theol verbo voluntas Dei anteced Greg. Arimin 1. d. 40. art 2. ad 4. learned Papists But Thomas preferreth it before all others and y Lect. 1. in 2. c. 1. ep ad Timot. saith it agreeth best with the Apostles intent And Emmanuel Sa is of the same mind God saith z Notat in 1. Tim. 2 4 he would all men be saued he would All men that is All kind of men not euery man for if he would absolutely then he would do it Which being so the Iesuite may see there is no such necessitie that God should prouide the meanes of a visible Church to instruct all men vniuersally forasmuch as he neuer willed absolutely that all men vniuersally should be saued but as Saint Austine a Ep. 107. ad Vital post mediū speaketh It is euen by children manifest that many be not saued not because themselues but because God will not confuting the contrary as Pelagianisme And it is no absurditie to say of such that they wanted b Mat. 10.5 Act. 14.16 16.6 17.30 through Gods iudgement many times secret but alway iust c Rom. 1.16 1. Cor. 1.21 Rom. 10.14 Act. 2.47 necessarie meanes whereby they should attaine to faith and saluation God willing the meanes no otherwise then he doth the end that is by no absolute will formally abiding in himselfe but onely conditionally Whereas his will concerning the elect being his absolute purpose to giue them eternall life is alway ioyned with such works as make it not onely possible or conditionall but also certaine to be effected And if nothing else can teach the Iesuite thus much yet he might haue learned it of his owne words For if God will nothing which he knoweth impossible then doth he not will the saluation of such as he knoweth to be d Rom. 9.22 1. Pet. 2.8 Iude vers 4. the vessels of wrath prepared to destruction And if the Iesuite thinke yet to answer and vnfold the matter by applying e Magist 1. d. 46 47. ibi Scolast communiter omnes Damascen l. 2. orthod fid c. 29. the schoole distinction of will antecedent and consequent then let him open his eyes and consider that this Antecedent will taking it as f Voluntas Dei antecedens est qua dat alicui naturalia vel aliqua bona antecedentia quibus potest aliquid consequi Ockā Camerac 1. q. 14. art 1. and so the rest it is described g Quod vult Deus voluntate antecedente solùm non simpliciter vult Dur. 1.46.1.2 neither is any will simply properly and formally as the Apostle saith God willeth in the place alledged neither doth it necessarily include the certaine publishing of the Gospell or reuelation of the Church But h Interna vocatio Gentibus nunquā defuit nam iuxta opinionem Scoti
them and to no more the order is giuen Tell the Church Besides this speech is like that of d Cap. 2. v. â— Malachie The Priests lips shall preserue knowledge and the people shall seeke the law at his mouth whereas notwithstanding e Mat. 5.21 inde Ioh. 11.50 sometime they had no Priest to aske and f otherwhiles such as they had wanted knowledge and deliuered that which was not law But the meaning was that this order should be obserued for the peoples instruction to preserue them in obedience if they did not fall from it So to tell the Church is a rule prescribed to be vsed when the Church enioyeth her libertie and outward gouernement but when the externall state thereof and publicke entercourse of the faithfull with the same shal ceasse when the communion of the faithfull shall be in secret and all Ecclesiasticall order lie buried the altars forsaken the Church emptie then it bindeth not because the meanes faile Neither doth it imply any such perpetuall visiblenesse as the Iesuite would tie the Church to For it was a law that men should come to Ierusalem and worship there yet this implied not any perpetuall glorie to that citie it was also a law that euery male child should be circumcised the eight day and yet vpon necessitie it was omitted fortie yeares And the Papists confessing that sometimes none can discerne the Church but such as very wisely esteeme of things hereby grant that all men at all times cannot tell the Church specially if you adde another point f Ema Sa. not in Math. 18.17 Fr. Victor relect 2. parum ante finem that by the Church is meant the Pastors onely for they may be scattered or hidden that we cannot haue them ready to tel them euery time a brother trespasseth Lastly this commandement may be fulfilled by the faithfull among themselues in the same maner as I said before of confession For g Math. 18.20 where the true professors are there is the Church either all or a part and they so many as liue together see and know one another and can tell the Church though the world heare not their voice § 21. Fourthly it is certaine that once the Church was visible to wit when it first began in Ierusalem in the Apostles and Disciples of our Sauiour Christ and that companie which by their preaching were conuerted to the faith But there can no reason of difference be shewed why it should be visible then and not now The Answer 1 He might as well say it is certaine that once the Sunne was visible but there can no reason be giuen why it should not be so alwayes for as reasons may be giuen why the Sunne though sometime cleare yet sometime may be eclipsed or departed out of our horizon so may there as euident differences be yeelded why the Church afterward and the Church at Ierusalem were not alike visible h Esa 2.3 Mic. 4.2 First the Church of the new Testament was then to begin and therefore it was meete the Pastors and people thereof should appeare to the world Next persecutions were not then so grieuous as afterward they were Thirdly the apostacy foretold by Saint Paul was not then begun but ensued long after which Apostasie was the cloud that hid the Church And yet if another conceit of the Papists be true i Alexand. p 3. qu. vlt. nu 5. art 2. Panorm de elect electi poâ—c significasti Durand â—at l. 6. c. 72 nu 25. TurrecreÌ„ sum l. 3. c. 61. that about the time of Christs passion the true faith remained in none but the virgin Marie the Iesuites argument here wil fall and our Church at the worst hath alway bene as visible as then it was For as for this present time and age we thinke it k Hem fieri potuit vt tot Germani Angli Scoti Bohemi Vngari Dani Succi Gotthi Noâ—uegienses Prusli Lithuam Liuonij eò caecitatis peâ—uenerint Tho. Boz de Sign Eccl. l. 19 c. 1. pag. 606. as visible all ouer the world as the Church of Rome is And if the Iesuite thinke we hold otherwise he is deceiued § 22. Fiftly the onely reason and ground by which heretickes hold the Church to be inuisible is because they imagine the Church to consist onely of the elect or at least of the good But this is a false ground for it is euident that the Church militant consisteth of the good and bad as is signified by those parables wherein it is compared to a floore wherein are mixed wheate and chaffe Mat. 3. and to a net wherein are gathered all sorts of fishes good and bad Mat. 13. and to a mariage to which came good and bad Matth. 22. and to ten virgins whereof fiue were foolish and excluded from the celestiall mariage Mat. 25. This also is gathered out of S. Paule who 1. Cor. 5. commandeth them to expell an incestuous person out of the Church and therefore it doth not consist of those onely which be good The Answer 1 Here the Iesuite grosly bewrayeth either his ignorance or malice in that he saith this is the onely ground wherupon heretickes hold the inuisible Church because it consists of the elect onely For the question betweene vs now is about the inuisiblenesse not of the vniuersall Church but of the militant as he himselfe acknowledgeth And let him if he can for the credit of his word shew where any one of those whom he calleth heretickes maketh the mixture of good and badde in the Church militant the reason why it is sometime hidden from the world For our proper grounds are these a Luc. 18.8 â— Thes 2.3 Apoc 9.1 12.6 13 3.7 the Prophecies and b 1. Reg. 19.2 Reg. 2.2 ChroÌ„ 15.3 28.20 24.2 Reg. 21. examples of the Scripture the experience of times and euents shewing it the blindnesse of the world the nature and necessitie of the Church all which conuince it to be true that we say Whereas the mixture of euill men is so far from holding vs in the point that we confesse hypocrites may also in secret professe with true beleeuers and so be part of this inuisible Church Let him therefore recall his ouersight and forbeare these forgeries which tend to nothing but the stealing away of their affections that know not how things stand betweene vs. 2 Indeed another position of ours that saith the Catholicke Church is inuisible that is to say the Church mentioned in the creed euery member whereof is saued is inuisible and consisteth not of any externall assembly that we see is grounded on this that it containeth none but the elect but not as the Iesuit vntruly saith on this alone we haue other grouÌ„ds beside First because the triumphant Church is part of the Catholick which being in heauen no earthly eye seeth or knoweth Next no man knoweth Gods elect yet none but they are the verie Catholicke Church Thirdly all the persons and companies in the world professing Christ were neuer assembled into one place so that they might all of them be seene Fourthly we vse this reason also that in the visible assemblies many badde are mingled with the good and therefore of necessitie we must allow another Church whereto
they properly belong which can be none but an inuisible Church But the Iesuite auouching the mixture of good and badde in the militant Church which we grant to proue the Catholicke Church consisteth of all sorts reasoneth to no purpose For the militant and Catholicke Churches are not all one by reason whereof that may be in one which is not in another Neither can any thing be concluded for the later out of those Scriptures which speake onely of the former And let him know that this ground of ours is so true which he calleth a false ground that many learned Papists confesse it with vs. Many grant c de Eccl. mild 3. c. 9. saith Bellarmine that euill men are no true members neither simply of the body of the Church but onely * Secundum quid aequiuoceÌ„ in some respect and equiuocally So saith Ioannes de Turcremata prouing it out of Alexander Hales Hugh and Saint Thomas The same also is taught by Petrus à Soto Canus and others Now that which is so equiuocally d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Arist Categ c. 1. Phauorin Lexic is not so in deed but in name or likenesse onely As a painted man is called a man § 23. Lastly the testimonie of the Fathers proueth the same Origenes homilia 30. in Mat Ecclesia saith he plena â—st fulgore ab Oriente vsque ad Occidentem Cyprian lib. de Vnitate Ecclesiae Ecclesia inquit Domini luce perfusae radios suos per orbem terrarum spargit Chrysost hom 4. in cap 6. Esaiae Facilius est inquit Solem extingui quam Ecclesiam obscurari August lib. 3. contra Epist Parmeniani cap. 5. Nulla inquit est securitas vnitatis nisi ex promissiâ— Dei Ecclesiae declaratis quae supra montem vt dictum est constituta abscondi non potest Tract 1. in Epist Ioan. Nunquid digito ostendemus Ecclesiam fratres mei nonne aperta est Et tract 2. Quid amplius dicturus sum quà m caecoâ— qui tam magnum montem non vident qui contra lucernam in candelabro positam oculos claudunt By which places of the Fathers doth euidently appeare how that they did suppose as certaine that the Church was visible such as might be cleerely seene and could not be hidden The Answer 1 The iudgement teaching of the fathers we acknowledg a Eph. 4 1â— must reuerently be accounted of and followed as they follow the truth froÌ„ which as other later Pastors in Gods Church so they haue swarued somtime so manifestly that Canus a Papist himselfe whose iudgement is commended by b Qua de rectuâ—â—tè mihi scripâ—iâ—ie videtur Canus lib. â— de locis Theologicis c 3. tom 3 cap. 239. Gregory of Valence c Loc. Theolâ— 7. c. 3. concl 2. writeth The Canonicall authors indeed as being from aboue heauenly diâ—â—â—e do alwayes hold a perpetuall and stable constancie in their writings but other holy writers are inferiour and humane failing sometimes and now and then contrary to the course of nature they bring foorth a monster Which being granted then their testimonie proueth not alwayes but only sheweth what they supposed And the common distinction of the Papists here applyed that d Greg Valent. tom 3. p. 290. it is infallibly true which they deliuer with one consent though it seeme reasonable yet sometime it is but a stale to deceiue For this consent cannot euer be knowne and they that keepe such a stirre with it e Quod si per sententiam doctoruÌ„ aliqua fidei controuersia non satis commode coÌ„poni posset eo quod illorum consensu â—on aperte constaret sua tunc constâ—â— authoritas pon â—fici pag 293. lit B. themselues place it at the length in the Popes sole authoritie More shall be said of this matter f § Digress 47. nu 5. ad 12. hereafter but here I touch it that it might appeare the Scripture onely is iudge 2 But allow them what authoritie you will yet by the places alledged it appeareth neither euidently nor at all that they thought any thing against our assertion but they speake either of the inward light of the Church consisting in truth and obedience or of the outward estate as it was in their time or as the godly that liue therein at all times see it as will appeare by examining their particular words 3 Origen whom yet I maruell that he would alledge seeing they g Baron An. 232. nu 10. tom 3. count him an hereticke and h An. 256. nu 40 ibid reproue all that speake for him saith The Church is full of brightnesse from the East to the West But this brightnesse was not meant of the outward estate or appearance thereof but of the truth professed which we say may be done in secret as his words in the beginning of that homily declare We must vnderstand that the brightnesse of truth appeareth out of euerie place of Scripture and going out from the East that is from the birth of Christ it appeareth vntill the accomplishment of his passion wherein is his Sun-setting And though this brightnesse were cleare to the world also when Origen wrote this yet hence it followeth not that it should alway be so a cloud of Apostasie might after his time come and obscure it Cyprian saith The Lords Church being enuironed with his light reacheth his beames ouer all the world Which words being in all points like Origens receiue the same answer For by this light he meaneth the vnitie of the Church as appeareth by his next words This light is one which is spred euery where and the vnitie of the bodie is not separated now this vnitie as all other inward graces and ornaments of the Church may with her selfe be spred all ouer the world and yet not visibly to the view of all therein but by being retained in the hearts of her children scattered all ouer the world Yet I deny not but the Church was openly knowne in Cyprians time though very poore and persecuted but that proueth not it should alway be so Chrysostome saith The Sunne shall sooner be put out then the Church obscured but by obscuring he meaneth not the hiding of it for a time out of the sight of her enemies but the totall extinguishing and vtter abolishing of it Which will easily appeare if the greeke word vsed for obscuring be looked now that may be hidden for a time which is not extinguished as we see in the Sun wherwith Chrysostome compareth the Church Againe it is neuer obscured from those that liue in it which professe the faith and yet the world may be ignorant of it as a blind man seeth not the
the particular Churches set down and name the articles of their faith the which confessions if the Iesuite can shew to iarre as he saith in dogmaticall points of faith I am content you beleeue him in all the rest Or if he can shew the Church of England since Papistry was first abolished hath altered one article of the present faith now professed 2 I will not deny but there are iarres among vs but this is that we say and for triall thereof we challenge all the Seminaries this day in England from whom the worst of our fallings out is not hid that these iarres are not in points of faith nor yet any contrarietie betweene Church and Church but onely they are quarels and dissentions betweene some particular men and me thinketh the Iesuite should not be so absurd as to hold the Church it selfe guiltie of euery fault committed by any priuate man therein no more then a ciuill state ordered by good lawes and wholesome gouernment can be discredited by some suites and quarels that now and then fall out betweene the subiects And yet it is false he saith that scarce three learned men among vs are in all points of one opinioÌ„ for that breach which is is not so great as these words imply but onely toucheth some particular men in matters not concerning faith the body of the Church in the meane time continuing in the vnitie of faith and vpholding her gouernment And for further proofe hereof our enemies haue taken infinit paines to collect and blaze abrode these our supposed dissentions but how haue they sped in the iourney what haue they performed the mountaine trauelled and was deliuered of a mouse For one part of these dissentions are falsly laid to our charge through the ignorance and fury of our aduersaries as drunken men in the pangs of their giddinesse speake of things not as they are indeed but as the impression is in their idle fancie Another part are not the iarres of the Church but the defects of some few therein whereof the Church is not guilty The rest are not dissentions in things of faith but strife about ceremonies kindled and nourished specially by the cunning of secret Papists lurking as the remnant of the Canaanites among vs wherein if any among vs haue exceeded yet f Ezek. 16.51 the Church of Rome iustifieth vs againe where neither three learned men nor three Popes can be giuen of one mind in all points but as Platina g In Steph. vi writeth This hath bin for the most part the maner that the later Popes haue either infringed or wholly taken away the decrees of the former And Papists h D. 40. Si Pap. edit GregoriaÌ„ in Annot. desiring to fetch religion rather from the Popes mouth then from holy writ cannot but change as they haue changed 3 Therefore the discord among vs being of no higher degree we say as Prudentius a Christian poet said of the vnitie of his time i Concordia laesa est Sed defensa fide quin concordia sospes Germanam comitata fidem sua vulnera ridet Psychom It hath receiued some hurt but is defended by faith her sister in whose company being safe come home she laugheth at her wounds And though we excuse not the oppositions of any who as k the twinnes of Rebecca shooke each others in their mothers wombe whereby she is made afraid and her burden becometh heauier and painefuller to her yet let not our enemies flatter themselues in this l Gen. 25.22 for Rebecca the Church among vs shall be safe God shall giue her Isaack the sonne of the promise and make her a fruitful mother after all her sorow Whose children though in some things they varie yea reproch one another yet so did Cyril and Theodoret Chrysostome and Theophilus Ierome and Ruffin and there is no impossibilitie why in the pursuite of their passion they may not be deceiued both For two brothers being in choler may one renounce the other yet still they remaine brothers for all that and their angry words proceeding not of iudgement but of choler l 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Aeschyl Sept. ad Theb. cannot make voide the band of nature Digression 21. Shewing that Gods true Church in all ages hath now and then bene troubled with contentions as great as are now among vs. 4 And because our enemies may hope by vrging these contentions such as they are to discredit our profession they must be put in mind that the vnitie of Gods Church was neuer so perfect or entire but sometime it hath bene blemished with dissention yea miserably rent in sunder with the inconsiderate strife of her owne children Saint Paul m Rom. 16.17 testifieth of the Church of Rome that there were therein which caused diuisions and offences contrarie to the doctrine And of the Corinths he n 1. Cor. 3.3 saith there was among them enuying strife and contention some holding of Paul some of Apollo some of Cephas and he o 1. Cor. 11.19 writeth to them that there must be heresies among them for the trial of such as were faithfull So p Act. 15.39 Paul and Barnabas yea q Gal. 2.11 Paul and Peter had their iarres so Polycrates and Victor Cyprian and Cornelius Cyril and Theodoret Chrysostome Theophilus and Epiphanius Hierome and Ruffin Paulinus and Meletius Leo and the Councell of Calcedon Nazianzen and the Councell of Constantinople all bishops of the Catholicke Church were at extreme contention one with another r Euseb hist l. 5 c. 23. inde Niceph. l. 4 c. 37. inde The strife betweene the East and West Churches about the keeping of Easter was such that they excommunicated each other Å¿ Euseb hist l. 7 c. 3. inde Cypr. ep 74. ad Pomp. Sabrat Concil Carth. apud Cypt. apud Cypr. ep 75 Hieron de script in Dionysio The question of rebaptization bred the like broiles betweene the Bishop of Rome and the Westerne Bishops on the one part and Cyprian Dionysius and Firmilianus three metropolitans with the most Bishops in Affricke Aegypt Cappadocia Galatia and Cilicia on the other part there was no Church or Catholicke Bishop therein which was not intangled in this opposition But the broiles stirred vp by Theophilus against Chrysostome were more then tragicall and rent in sunder all the Churches in the world yet were they the Bishops of the Catholicke Church that thus contended In this variance Theophilus the Patriarke of Alexandria and Epiphanius the Bishop of Cyprus were chiefe against Chrysostome and with them ioyned the other Bishops of the Prouinces as they fancied the euent was this t Socr. l. 6. c. 21. Chrysostome lost both his Bishopricke and life in banishment u Niâ—eph l. 13. c. 13 Epiphanius and he most grieuously cursed one another x Socr. l. 6. c. 17. Niceph. l. 13. cap. 17. 21. Many were slaine in the taking of parts y Sozo l.
c Caiet 22. pag 144. Tolet. Sum p. 700. Graff part 1. p. 349. As that prisoners may breake the iayle and vse what meanes they can to escape though they be lawfully committed A point well practised by Priests in England That d Tolet. Sum. pag. 548. children may marry without consent of parents e Greg. à Val. tom 3. p. 1090. That parents cursing or banning their owne children sinne but venially as long as they do it without deliberation f Tolet. p. 583. That women or seruants scolding or rayling one at another sinne not g Tolet. p. 540. That it is lawfull on the Sabboth day to follow fuites trauell hunt dance keepe faires and such like This is it that hath made Papists the most notorious Sabboth breakers that liue Infinite other doctrines of this sort might be added but I will end with that which a h Coâ—nel Agripp de van c. 64. Papist himselfe saith of Shrift because the Iesuite standeth so confidently for the holinesse of it and offereth it for so soueraigne a medicine I could saith he by many examples fresh in memorie shew how fit this shriuing is for baudry for Priests Monkes and Nunnes haue this speciall prerogatiue that vnder pretence of religion they may go vp and downe when and whither they will vnder colour of confession talke with any woman whom they oftentimes entertaine but homely And thus closely they go to the Stewes rauish virgins and widowes yea many times which my selfe haue seene and knowne runne away with mens wiues and carrie them to their fellowes And thus whose soules they should win to God their bodies they sacrifice to the diuell 7 By this you may see what doctrine lieth in the Church of Rome veiled with the title of the Catholicke faith whereby their hypocrisie is noted that so blasphemously haue charged the truth of Christ which we professe with libertie And whosoeuer shall attentiuely consider the whole course of Papistry I meane the doctrine and gouernment both in the Church of Rome with the rising and progresse thereof and the manner of aduancing it forward shall finde it to be nothing else but a very iest wittily deuised to delude the world and in euery point prouiding for the satisfying of the ambition couetousnesse and sensualitie of such as should haue the greatest stroke in that Church And let any man make the triall compare one part of the religion with another marking the coherence and how one point issueth out of another and the policies whereby the world is inhibited to listen to it and they shall easily perceiue it driueth all at this to make the Pope and his clergy absolute Lords of the world and of all the greatnesse and pleasures therein For the effecting whereof it was an easie matter for them to set learned men aworke and with faire rewards to make them shew their wit in perswading men which they haue done in all ages accordingly but neuer better then now of late by the Iesuites Hence it is that in the course of Poperie you see the Pope himselfe Lord of all his clergie aboue the temporalty his Bishops the peers of Princes i See Palmer Floren. Chron. ann 1334. touching the wealth of Iohn 22. his treasurie richer then any in the world beside the consciences of men at his deuotion their substance obedience and very lookes at his command and to effect this first he slideth into the consciences of men vnder the faire pretence of being Saint Peters successor then he blindeth their eyes by taking away the Scriptures and preaching and stoppeth their eares by disswading them from hearing any but himselfe Then he plotteth them a religion fitting mens carnall affection euery way the greatest part whereof standeth in easing them from taking any pains in spiritual things which of all other are most burthensome to flesh and blood They must indeed serue God if they should say otherwise no man would beleeue them but there be wayes to dispense and to turne the spirituall seruice into corporall which is easier And sinners must haue Gods pardon or they cannot be saued but the dispensation thereof is committed with the keyes to Christs vicar who hath power to release them by applying the sacraments of the Altar and Penance to their sinnes Nothing in all the religion but it standeth them in good stead Their Latin seruice and praiers to blindfold men for seeing the fraude The massing pompe and Church musicke to delite the senses the images and relickes and Pilgrimages to bring in their offerings the shrift to discouer the secret inclinations of people which would serue theÌ„ for a thousand purposes whereof this was one that therby the Pope knew the counsels of kings and secrets of euery state and wrought vpon them Their fasting dayes and prohibition of mariage to some persons to draw mony for dispensations Their merits to make men franke toward religious houses their purgatory to supply the Popes kitchin Their holidaies to please youth and renew their offerings their pardons to deliuer men from the feare of sinne and to draw money when they would And the stirre they keepe with writing and pleading in their schooles and abroade about religion is lest the world should thinke they haue no religion § 44. Thirdly the Protestants Church is not Catholicke that is to say vniuersall neither in Time nor in Place for it came vp but of late and is but in few places of Christendome Neither in points of doctrine for it consisteth chiefly of Negatiues that is to say in denying of diuerse points of doctrine which haue bene held for truth in all former ages by the ancient Fathers as appeareth by the Chronicles made by the Magdeburgenses the Protestants owne Doctors who confesse in their Centuries that the Fathers held this and that which they denie The Answer 1 That our Church came vp of late the Iesuite saith but sheweth not as the Iewes a Ioh 8.57 said to Christ Thou art not yet fiftie yeares old and hast thou seene Abraham And b Nunc dogma nobis Christianum nascitur post euolutos mille demum consules Prud. Peristep hym 10. the Gentiles to the Christians that Now after I know not how many thousand yeares their religion was sprong vp But against his speech I reply two things First that our faith is in all points the same that is contained in the Scripture and so consequently of the same antiquitie and therfore all they that say it came vp but of late should first proue it contrary to the word of God or else hold their peace SecoÌ„dly as it agreeth with the Scriptures so hath it had in all ages those which haue professed it as I haue shewed c Sect. 17. digr 17. already and more distinctly will shew in the fiftieth section In the meane time let it suffice for this place which our aduersaries themselues vnawares haue written The first is Bristo who d Mot. pref
mot 45. saith The truth is that some there haue bene in many ages in some points of the Protestants opinion in so much that scarce any peece or article there is of our whole faith but by one or other first or last it hath bene called in question and that with such liking for the time that they haue all in a manner drawne after them great heards of followers I know Bristo meaneth they were hereticks that in all ages did this but that can he neuer proue yet in the meane time belike he saw some that were of the Protestants faith before of late The second is Reynerius that liued three hundred yeares ago who discoursing of the Waldenses a people for substance of the Protestants religion e Refert Illyric catal tom 2. p. 543. saith They are in all the cities of Lombardy and Prouince and other countries and kingdomes They haue many followers and dispute publickely we haue numbred fortie Churches of theirs and ten schooles in Parish No sect hath continued so long some say it hath bene since the time of Syluester some since the Apostles and there is almost no country wherein it spreadeth not They haue great shew of pietie liuing vprightly before men and beleeuing all things aright concerning God and all the articles in the Creed onely they hate and blaspheme the Church of Rome c. In this testimonie of Reynerius you may see our Church was Catholicke both in place and persons and time and doctrine and that the Church of Rome was resisted and the religion thereof refused afore Luther The true cause why it was not so frequent and publicke as now it is either in place or persons was the persecution of the Pope and the generall corruption of the Papacie which as a leprosie infected and as a mist obscured welnigh all places and persons that sometimes not the true beleeuers themselues such I meane as are come to our knowledge were void of error in euery point though they firmly held the foundatiō as these Waldenses did And if it pleased God in processe of time to giue more libertie to the persons and more puritie to the doctrine what iust occasion is this to say we are not all one Church when the true faith of Christ is not alwayes alike visibly and purely professed Minutius Felix f Octau pa. 401. saith Why are we vnthankfull and why enuie we if the truth of God hath grown ripe in our age let vs enioy our good and let superstition be bridled and wickednes expiated and true religion maintained 2 The next point that our Church is but in few places of Christendome is both false and impertinent First impertinent for if it were so yet were it no hindrance to the note of vniuersalitie For Gods Church vnder the law was shut vp within the narrow bounds of Iudaea and g Digr 17. nu 31 the Papists say theirs in the dayes of their supposed Antichrist shall be openly seene but in few places and h Dried dogm eccl l. 4. c. 2 par 2. Bellar. not eccl c. 7. confesse it is not required to the vniuersalitie of the Church that of necessitie there be at all times in euery countrey some beleeuers it sufficeth if there be successiuely Whence it followeth that if only one prouince did retaine the true faith yet should it truly and properly be called the Catholicke Church as long as it might be shewed that it were the same which it was at other times in other places of the world the which we can shew of our Church how small soeuer the compasse thereof may fall out to be at some time Next it is false for there is no place in Christendome but there are some of our religion therein as not onely experience but our aduersaries owne reports beare witnesse wherein they i Boz sign eccl l. 19. c. 1. Bell. de Rom. Pont. praefat li. 3. c. 21. item de verb. Dei praefat habit in Gymn Rom. complaine how our heresie so heretickes style it possesseth many and large prouinces England Scotland Denmark Norwey Sweden Germanie Pole Boheme Hungary Prussia Lituania Liuonia whereto they may adde France and the Low countries yea Italy and Spaine it selfe where the barbarous Inquisition dayly findeth the profession of our religion euen at their doores 3 The third point that our Church is not Catholick in doctrine neither is as ill proued as the former For negatiue doctrine so farre as it is euil standeth not in denying some points which the fathers held but in denying that which they held according to the Scriptures and which they taught and maintained to be certain and necessary matter of faith deliuered in the Scriptures wherein neither we nor the Centuries euer refused them Neither haue we denied any one point which they held in all ages for the truth as our aduersaries haue For though the Centuries reiect this and that which the Father 's held yet they deny neither this nor that which was holden for the truth in all ages as appeareth by their historie wherein they shew the succession of our faith in all ages and note how it was many times corrupted and mistaken euen by some of the ancient Fathers which is all for substance that the Magdeburgenses can be charged with wherein they haue neither denied the doctrine of the Catholicke Church nor offered the Fathers any wrong to say they had some errors as all men haue and themselues confesse which gaue occasion to others to erre likewise which errors the Centuries sometimes more then was cause noting they did not thereby notwithstanding accuse the whole Church of error because euery thing was not the Churches doctrine that some particular men therein held and what they noted of some particular Fathers must not be stretched to be meant against them all as their censuring somtimes ouermuch of many together for some things written against the truth must not be expounded to be the deniall of all they held beside for if it be and the Centuries be thus censured let this Iesuite say directly without shrinking why doth k Cathar tract de concep virg Suar. to 2. disp 3 sect 6. the Church of Rome hold the virgin Marie was conceiued without sinne l Capreol 3. d. 3. Ban. par 1. p. 75. Paul Cortes in sent which all the Fathers with one consent deny Let them looke my demaund in the face that thinke it heresie to deny the Fathers yea all the fathers consenting in one Digression 47. Of the authoritie of the ancient Fathers in matters of our faith and religion Wherein it is shewed what we ascribe to them and how farre forth we depend vpon them And the practise of our aduersaries in contemning eluding and refusing both them and their owne writers is plainly discouered 4 But this is a point that must be further looked into and not suffered to passe away thus Our aduersaries neuer make an end of boasting of the Fathers and by
Bellarmine themselues were confuted by l Defens Ioan. Marsil Respon docto theolo Apolo P. Pauli the Diuines of Venice in the maine point of the Popes supremacy and m Apol. P. Pauli p. 479. one of the confuters telleth Bellarmine that he bringeth against him no other doctrine but the same which the Apostles and holy Doctors taught in all ages successiuely Which if it be true then the doctrine of the Cardinals was false and erronious 15 But if you would see them in their kind yet a litle better looke into the story of Honorius concerning his falling into the heresie of the Monothelites and you shall see thē without all shame respect cast off most violently whatsoeuer is brought to proue it onely because they will not be said to haue yeelded Councels fathers histories their owne writers are no body with them but like a hunted Bore they breake through with one answer they are all forged or deceiued First we obiect the sixt generall Councell Turrecremata n Sum. de eccl l. 2. c. 93. §. Tertia via answereth They condemned him through false information that deceiued thē But o Pigh diatrib de act 6. Synod Bell. Pon. Rom. l. 4 c 11. Baron an 681 nu 13. others say that part of the Councell which containeth his condemnation is forged by the Greekes Then we obiect the second Councell of Nice And p Pigh Bell. vbi supra they answer as before either that the Councell is forged or that it condemned him erroniously Thirdly we alledge the eight generall Councell But they reply that it was deceiued by the false copies of the sixt Synode Fourthly we alledge two epistles of Honorius which containe the heresie wherewith he is charged Bellarmine saith Possible those epistle were deuised by hereticks against him Fiftly we alledge an epistle of Leo wherein he writeth to the Emperour Constantinus Pogonatus the same that we say and q Baron ann 683. n 5. Bell. vbi supra they answer that epistle is forged Sixtly we alledge diuers authenticke stories that say it r Bell. ib. To all which they answer in a word by denying their authority and saying that Honorius name was so foysted in among others whom the stories had registred Lastly we alledge some of their owne writers that acknowledge it as Canus for example but Baronius reiecteth him and * Quem voluissem sensibus potius canum quà m nomine an 681. nu 31. descanting vpon his name wisheth he had had more wit then to be so headlong in giuing his verdit vpon so great a matter By this one example if there were no more you may see what reckoning they make of antiquitie if it runne against them neuer so little And that notwithstanding their bigge pretences of the ancient fathers they are faine to reiect them at euery turne and fall into the same inconuenience wherwith the Iesuit chargeth the Centuries And therefore sometime they sticke not plainly to giue it out that the controuersies are to be determined by the present Church at Rome Allen ſ Apol. pro Iesuit p. 99. Bell. de effect Sacr. c. 25. Testimonium Cōcilij Trid. etiā si nullum haberemus aliud deberet sufficere Nam si tollamus authoritatem praesentis Ecclesiae praesentis Concilij in dubium reuocati poterunt omnium aliorum Conciliorum decreta tota sides Christiana saith the Apostolicke sea with the Rulers and Councels of our time must be reputed for our iudges to whose power and iurisdiction all Christian people this day are subiect Which sheweth that the fathers are not the maine thing whereupon they relie but the Popes will whereby they can qualifie the fathers when they will the which libertie so to do being allowed them they may boldly crie out t Greg. à Valent tom 3 p. 290. The Catholickes in the questions this day controuerted haue on their side the iudgment of the fathers yea the cōmon iudgement of all the fathers consenting in one I say they may be the more confident in bragging thus if the liberty thus to correct and vsher them be allowed them as in euery question they are driuen to vse it § 45. And all the learned of them will confesse that they cannot assigne a visible companie of men professing the same faith that they do euer since Christs time without interruption till now and consequently will they nill they they must confesse that theirs is not vniuersall and therfore not the Catholicke Church For the true Catholicke Church of Christ must as I haue proued before out of Scripture be continually from Christs time all the dayes vntill the end of the world and being must needs alwayes visibly professe that faith which it doth hold Now their 's not being thus vniuersally and visibly in all times it cannot be that Church which Christ our Sauior in Scripture described and assigned for his The Protestants Church therefore is not Catholicke The Answer 1 In the affirmatiue that is in matters of faith and godly life necessary to saluation we hold the very same that alway was held but in the negatiue which denieth many points as false superstitious or not certaine of diuine faith necessary to saluation we confesse we cannot shew a perpetuall continuance And the reason is because the things that we deny came in by degrees in later times one after another and were not held anciently as matters of faith needfull to saluation but were either wholy vnknowne or at the most the fathers deliuered them onely as probable opinions and humane coniectures The which distinction being laid my mind is that it be vnderstood in all my answers to this obiection throughout this booke And thus the learned among vs confesse and proue against all that contradict it that euer since Christs time without interruption there haue bin a company of men visibly professing the same faith that we do though the Church of Rome degenerating into the seat of Antichrist persecuted them and so many times draue them out of the sight of the world that to it they were not visible but onely as the persecutors of euery age light vpon them and suppressed them by reason whereof when they were seene the world which cannot discerne the children of light knew them not to be the Church of God And this we proue by the consent of our doctrine in euery point with the Scriptures for such doctrine must needes be granted to haue alwaies bene without interruption and in euery substantiall point with the doctrine of some that are knowne to haue liued in euery age Other visibilitie then this the Church is not alwaies bound vnto as I haue shewed a Sect. 17. inde in place where all that the Iesuite here saith is answered Digression 48. contayning a briefe and direct answer to our aduersaryes when they say we cannot assigne a visible company professing the same faith in euery poynt that we do euer
vniuersall doctrine of God of Angels of all other creatures specially of man of his first framing of his finall end and of all things pertaining to his nature of his fall by sinne of his reparation by grace of lawes prescribed vnto him of vertues which he ought to imbrace of vices which he ought to eschue of Christ our redeemer his incarnation life and passion and his coming to iudgement of the Sacraments and all other points that anie way pertaine to Christian religion The Answer 1 That the Iesuites Romane Church hath continually held the present faith it now professeth is false and confuted a Sect. 35. Digr 22. 23. alreadie And I wonder he might for shame say it For is any so mad as to beleeue his Popes supremacie his Latine seruice his reall presence hath alway bene visible from the beginning when there is not so much as any mention of them in antiquitie All that religion therfore which the Romane Church maintaineth against vs came in by peece-meale through the faction conueyance of certaine persons which in all ages corrupted the truth and increased the corruptions by degrees till at length they obtained the name of the Romane faith 2 Next whereas he saith it is proued Catholicke in place by this that it hath and alway had some in euery coast that communicate in profession with it we must distinguish the times For in the Primitiue Church and long after the Christian world indeed communicated with the faith professed in the Romane Church but then it was not the same it is now and so the present Church of Rome is not iustified by this communion but condemned rather Afterward the nations of the world ioyned in profession with it likewise as it degenerated and grew vp in corruption but marke how One part being the smaller and obscurer liued in the middest thereof and communicated with no more then was the truth excepting some small errors like b 1 Cor. 3.12 hay or stubble builded on the foundation and this is not properly any communion with the Papacie but with the true Church whereto the Papacie in the Church of Rome grew as a scab or as a disease Another part communicated with it in the errors also as they grew and embraced the Papacie c Apo. 17.2.4.15 13.14 18.9 2. Thess 2.11 but this was the seduced world which the whore of Babylon made drunke with the wine of her fornication and deceiued with strong delusions And yet this communion was not so great but that many famous Churches in the world refused it and departed from it as soone as the alteration into the faith it now holdeth began visibly to appeare as the Churches of Greece and Armenia for example which to this day would neuer communicate with it Maginus d Geogr. descr pag. 166. saith The Greekes long since departed from the Church of Rome and appointed themselues Patriarkes whom they acknowledge to be their heads and not onely the Greekes obey them but all the Prouinces also that follow the Greekes religion Circassia Walachia Bulgaria Moscouia Russia the more part of Pole Mingrelia Brosina Albania Illyricum part of Tartarie Seruia Croatia and all the Prouinces lying vpon the Euxin sea Whereby it is plaine that many famous countries and infinite people neuer allowed of the Romane faith but haue kept possession against it to this day though many reâ—eiued it as in times past many communicated with Arius and Mahomet and yet they are not proued Catholicke thereby 3 To the last point concerning the vniuersall doctrine taught in the Romane Church I answer that it is not the holding of certaine heads and articles of religion which maketh a Church Catholicke but the holding them truly according to the Scripture Which truth being remoued the more is holden the worse and lesse Catholick is the Church that holdeth them For as much therefore as the Romane Church by adding and detracting hath corrupted the vniuersall doctrine of Christian religion and especially the points mentioned by the Iesuite and patched thereunto innumerable abuses errors and superstitions to the certaine damnation of all that beleeue them it is not proued Catholicke by teaching all the doctrine of religion but manifestly Antichristian because it teacheth euery point vntruly § 47. Neither doth it at this day denie any one point of doctrine which in former times was vniuersally receiued for verity or the Catholicke Church The which if anie will take vpon him to denie let him shew and proue first what point of doctrine the Catholicke Romane Church doth deny or hold contrarie to that which by the Church hath bene vniuersally held as we can shew the Protestants do The Answer 1 The Iesuit needed not to haue bidden vs shew the points holden in his Church against that which the Church of Christ vniuersally held in former ages for we name and shew euery point of his faith wherein he dissenteth from vs and proue that it came in contrary to the doctrine of the Church through the conueyance of some therein being neuer vniuersally receiued of all but maintained and aduanced by the power and contention of some against the rest which either resisted it or receiued it doubtfully And I VNDERTAKE TO SHEW THIS IN ANIE QVESTION OF HIS RELIGION THAT HE WILL NAME VNTO ME BY PROVING THE SAME TO BE AGAINST THE SCRIPTVRE FIRST AND THEN CONTRARIE TO THE PRIMITIVE CHVRCH AND FINALLY TAVGHT BY THE SHOOL-MEN AND OTHERS IN THE ROMANE CHVRCH IT SELFE OTHERWISE THEN NOW THE IESVITES AND TRENT COVNCELL DELIVER IT This is enough to answer the present chalenge and I haue performed it in euery question handled in this booke and namely Digress 32. to 42. Digression 49. Obiecting eight points for example wherein the Church of Rome holdeth contrary to that which formerly was holden The conception of the virgin Marie Latine seruice Reading the Scriptures Priests mariage Images Supremacie Communion in one kind Transubstantiation 1 First touching the conception of the virgin Marie which all the ancient fathers beleeued to be in original sin and the elder Schoolmen vniuersally as I shewed vpon another occasion out of Dominicus a Part. 1. in Tho. q. 1. art 8. dub 5. Bannes and b De consecr d. 4 Firmissime nu 11. Turrecremata contrarie to c Sixt. 4. c. Cum prae excelsa Graue nimis in Extrau commun Concil Trid. sess 5. § Declarat tameÌ„ haec Galatin Arcan l. 3 pag. 490. the present beliefe of the Church of Rome 2 Next touching Latin seruice which is vsed in the Church of Rome against all antiquitie and the iudgement of many d 1. Cor. 14. The Apostle saith If an instrument of musicke make no distinction in the sound how shall it be knowne what is piped So likewise you except by the language you vtter words that haue signification how shall it be vnderstood what is spoken For you shall speake in the ayre I will pray and sing with the
thence haue giuen testimony to vs who remain behinde that they are safely arriued there you I say are vnwise that will leaue this way to aduenture the liues not of your bodies but of your soules in a path found out by your selues neuer tracked before In which whosoeuer haue gone yet God knoweth what is become of them since we neuer had letter or miracle or euident token or any word from them to assure vs that they passed safely that way I may account you most vnwise men that will aduenture such a pretious iewell as your soule is to be transported by such an vncertaine and most dangerous way I must needs think that since there is but one way and that the way of the Catholike Church is a sure and approued way you are very vnwise that leaue it The Answer 1 They are vnwise that leaue the way of the Catholicke Church they are no wiser but the very same that follow the way of the Romane Church the reason is because the Roman is not the Catholick Church And therfore we that haue left it and the waies thereof that we might trauell towards the heauenly Ierusalem reioyce in the goodnesse of God that hath called vs to this mercy and daily craue of his heauenly maiestie that he will continue vs therein to our liues end though Papists cal vs to follow them Whose miracles as a Digress 44. I haue shewed giue no testimony that any man in the Popish religion euer came to heauen The miracles of Christ and of his Apostles and of the Primitiue Church belong not to them but vs in that our faith is the same that theirs was that did them The rest contained in the Legends and Indian Newes which are all that Papists can properly challenge are the delusions of Satan and forgeries of men And so the diuell and the Frier playing the Carriers loded their packe-horse with such stuffe and because the Pope paied them well for the deuice they made silly Papists such as the Iesuite is beleeue they came from their friends in heauen This therefore is no sure way to finde the truth vnlesse it be certain that these miracles were sent indeed and then as certaine that they which sent them died in the present Popish religion 2 As for our selues we are not so destitute of letters and tokens as the Iesuite pretendeth sent vs not from men that are departed but from God that gaue them entertainment whose certificate to vs is b 2. Pet. 1 1◠more worth then all the miracles of the world because he sent it vs by his owne Sonne that best could tell who arriued in his fathers house And these letters are the Scriptures God our King c Hom. 39. saith Macarius hath sent the diuine Scriptures as it were letters vnto vs. And Saint Austin saith d Enarr Psal 90. conc 2. These are the letters which are come to vs frō that Citie whither like Pilgrims we are trauelling So that as long as by these Scriptures we can iustifie our faith we haue letters from heauen sufficient to assure vs that all which embrace and obey the faith we professe are safely arriued in the kingdome of heauen This is the reason why the Pope forbiddeth his people the reading of them lest thereby they should know so much and knowing it should forsake him and his lying miracles § 63. I must thinke that since the Catholicke Church is as I haue proued the light of the world and rule of faith the pillar and ground of the truth that you leauing it leaue the light and therefore walke in darkenesse forsaking the true faith and therefore are misled in the mist of incredulity into the wildernesse of misbeliefe Finally hauing lost the sure ground of truth fall into the ditch of many absurdities must needs be drowned in the pit of innumerable errors And erring thus from the way the veritie the life which is Christ residing according to his promise in the Catholicke Church must needs vnlesse you will returne to the secure way of the same Catholicke Church incurre your owne perdition death and endlesse damnation of body and soule from the which sweet Iesus deliuer vs all to the honour and perpetuall praise of his name Amen Laus Deo beatae virgini Mariae The Answer 1 The Church of Rome is not the Catholike Church but the seate of Antichrist and therfore what danger soeuer there be in forsaking the Catholicke yet there is none in refusing the Romane Church Nay t 2. Cor. 6.17 Apoc. 18.4 all such as will be saued must forsake it And they that will abide therein shall find by experience at the last that all the inconueniences which the Iesuite saith belong to such as leaue the Catholicke Church will fall vpon them And therefore blessed be God the Father of lights who hath restored among vs the publicke ministery of the Gospel for the calling of his people out of the damned errors of the Romane Sea into his owne Church And let the earth reioyce and euery child of God therein and giue him thankes who hath made the light of his Church to breake out when the tyranny of the Church of Rome had thought to haue smothered it in eternall darkenesse and with the innumerable errors that it bred to haue seduced misled and drowned it for euer wherby mankinde should haue incurred perdition death and endlesse damnation of body and soule And let my deare countrimen know among whom vnto whom I write these things and for whose sake I will expose my selfe to the vndiscreet fury of seducers and many seduced refusing no paines or dutie that may tend to the enlightning of their conscience and confirming of the vndoubted faith of Iesus Christ wherof I am called to be the meanest preacher that liueth among them LET THEM I SAY AND ALL THE PEOPLE OF OVR LAND WHOM THESE HAPPY DAIES HAVE RECLAIMED FROM THE CHVRCH OF ROME COVNT THIS THEIR CHIEFEST HAPPINES AND WE ARE IT AS THEIR CROWNE that God hath thus made them partakers of his Gospell when the other side euen vnder their eyes lie plunged in ignorance of mind error of faith and vilenesse of conuersation so horrible and prodigious that it needeth teares to bewaile it rather then a pen to report it In recompence wherof let them be CONSTANT AND FAITHFVLL to the end and continue in the things that they haue learned making no question but our faith which could bring so visible a reformation of manners into our countrey so certaine knowledge so vnspeakeable comfort into our minde which could bring the light of Gods owne word the maiesty of elder times the reuerent countenance of the first antiquitie and the perpetuall testimony of our aduersaries themselues for her iustification wil saue their soules if they will obey it For want of which obedience they may and shall perish eternally when the faith it selfe is in no fault And let them LABOVR WITH LOVE AND
admonish one another that there is more strength to confute heretickes in traditions then in the Scripture yea all disputations with them must be determined by traditions so little hope haue they of receiuing any vantage by the Scripture Therfore Bristow dealt surely and circumspectly for his Romane faith a Mot. vltim where teaching his scholler how to deale with a Protestant he biddeth him first get the proud hereticke out of his weake and false castle of onely Scripture into the plaine field of traditions miracles Councels and Fathers and then like cowards they shal not stand For I dare vndertake on a Papists behalfe that put the Scripture to silence and set the Pope as iudge and giue him authoritie to make and repeale lawes to vse traditions approue Councels expound Fathers and Scriptures declare the Churches mind b Papa dicitur coeleste habere arbitrium sententiam quae nulla est facit aliquam De translat episco C. Quanto in Glossa make something of that which is nothing and to vse his will for a lawfull reason and finally as Stapleton c Princip doctr fidei in praefat speaketh let vs imagine that we heare God himselfe speaking in him and therefore vpon his authoritie teaching vs the foundation of our religion must be laid and as Bristow wisely foreseeth the Protestants shall be proued to be cowardly conuicted hereticks indeed Saue that he did not foresee how by confessing so much of his religion to rely onely on tradition and the credit of his Church he hath debarred himselfe and all Papists for alledging the text for it and any man of meane capacitie will easily conceiue what small comfort can be in that religion which is thus acknowledged to haue no warrant from the Scripture And we Protestants cannot but note their conscience and smile at their confidence which are so loud in alledging texts for that which they know and graunt cannot be proued but by tradition and D. Saunders was but in an Irish fit when he cried out so vehemently d Rock of the Church pa. 193. How vnhappie are men now a dayes that hauing most plaine Scriptures not such as possible needs the Churches declaration but most plaine and expresse Scripture not in some which e Multoque maxima pars euangelij peruenit ad nos traditione perexigua literis est mandara Hosius confess c. 92. vide Eck. ench c. 4. de scriptur other Papists could haue bene câ—ntent with but in all points for the Catholicke faith and none at all against the same yet they pretend by the very Scriptures to ouercome the Catholickes If this had bene true traditions should haue bene in lesse account then now they are and the Scriptures more allowed Digress 5. Wherin against the Iesuits conceit secretly implied in his first conclusion it is shewed that the Scriptures ought to be translated into the mother tongue and so read indifferently by the lay people of all sorts 9 If the Iesuite by his generall exception against our English translation meant also to gird at the reading of the Scriptures in the mother tongues and the permission thereof to the common people according to the conceit of f Bellarm. de verbo Dei l. 2. c. 15. Rhem. praefat Staphy apol Petes de tradit part 2. assert 3. pag 43. Ouand breuilo in 4. dist 13. prop. 13. l. edesima c. such as very odiously exclaime against it for that the translated Bibles be in the hands of euery husbandman artificer prentise boy girle mistris maid man c you haue at hand wherewith to answer him For in vaine were the Scriptures giuen vs g Mat. 4 4.7 10. Ephes 6.17 to be our armour against Satan if we might not be exercised in them in vaine are we commaunded h Deut. 6.7 13.12 Ios 1.8 Ioh. 5.39 to search them if they may not be translated for our vnderstanding in vaine are we taught i Col. 3.16 2. Cor. 8.7 2. Pet. 1.5 Heb. 5.12 to abound in knowledge and vnderstanding if the Scripture k Psa 19.7 Prou. 1.2 2. Tim. 3.15 the meanes thereof be holden from vs and in vaine haue the words of Christ and his Church called them l Digress 3. the Rule if we may not vse them or if as Duraeus m Confut. resp Whitak 1. â—at 5. pag. 148. writeth God had left vs not the bookes of the Scriptures but Pastors and doctors or as n Apolo part 2. transl by Stapl. pag. 76. Staphylus counselleth a Portesse containing I know not what parcels were sufficient or if Hosius the Cardinall lie not that o De sacr Vernac legend ignorance of the things we beleeue is worthy not onely of forgiuenesse but also of reward and p De express Dei verbo pag. 91. it is fitter for women to meddle with their distaffe then Gods word 10 But whatsoeuer the conceit of these men may be certaine it is and the Ecclesiasticall stories make it cleare that in the Primitiue church the word of God was not onely permitted the lay people to reade but also for that cause translations were prouided and they called vpon to be diligent in them of what estate soeuer they were q 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Socrat. l. 4. c. 33. Vlphilas a Bishop of the Goths translated the Scriptures into their language that so the barbarians might learne the words of God saith Socrates Auentinus r Annal. l. 4. sayth that Methodius translated them into the Slauonian tongue Å¿ Homil. 1. in Ioh. Chrysostome mentioneth Syrian Egyptian Indian Persian and Ethiopian translations yea others innumerable t De Curand Graecorum affect l. 5 Theodoret saith the Bible was turned into all languages vsed in the world Greeke Latin Egyptian Persian Indian Armenian Scythian Sarmatian which is also proued by this that diuers bookes and fragments of them are extant to this day And concerning our owne nation u Eccles hist gent. Angl. l. 1. c. 1. Bede sheweth that of old it had the Scriptures in all the languages thereof And finally x Rhem. praefac the Papists themselues cannot denie but this was the vse of those auncient times Let the testimonie of Austine be noted for the clearing of the point y De doctrin Christian l. 2. c. 5. It is come to passe that the Scripture wherewith so many diseases of mens wil are holpen proceeding from one tongue which fitly might be dispersed through the world being spread farre and wide by meanes of the diuers languages whereunto it is translated is thus made knowne to nations for their saluation the which when they reade they desire nothing else but to attaine to the mind of him that wrote it and so to the will of God according to the which we beleeue such men spake And what is more common with z Chrysos hom 3. de Laz. ho. 9. ad Coloss hom 2. 5. in Matth. hom 29.
it is from the world but we meane three other things First although it abide alwayes vpon the earth holding the whole faith without change and containing a certain number that constantly professe it yet this number may be very small and their profession so secret among themselues that the world and such as loue not the truth shall not see them they remaining so hidden as if they were not at all This point concerning the smalnes of the number is confessed by i Alexan. part 3. qu. vlt. nu 5. art 2. Dur. ration l. 6. c. 72. nu 25. Panorm de elect electi potest c. significasti Tur recrem de CoÌ„secr d. 2. semel Christus nu 4. theÌ„ that hold that about the time of Christs passion the true faith remained in none but onely the virgin Mary and by k Refert Fr. Suarez tom 2. difâ— 54. sect 6. pag. 649. such Catholicke writers as say that in the times of Antichrist the true faith shall perish throughout the whole world And the secretnesse of their profession is acknowledged by Pererius the Iesuite who l In Daniel pag. 714. writeth that in the time of Antichrist there shall be no sacrament in publick places neither shall any publicke honour be giuen it but priuately and priuily shall it be kept and honored And Ouandus the Frier m Breuiloqu in 4. Sent d. 18. prop. 3. p. 602. who thinketh the Masse at that time shal be celebrated but in very few places so that it shall seeme to be ceassed Secondly all the externall gouernement thereof may come to decay in that the locall and personall succession of the Pastors may be interrupted the discipline hindered the preachers scattered and all the outward exercise of gouernment and religion suspended whereby it shall come to passe that in all the world you cannot see any one particular Church publickly professing the true faith whereto you may safely ioyne your selfe by reason persecution and heresies shall haue ouerflowed all Churches as n Gen. 7.18 Noes floud did the world or obscured their light as the Sun is eclipsed or corrupted the sinceritie of religion as a leprosie or scab sometime groweth ouer the whole body of man and hideth euery member till by little and little it fall off againe Thus in effect say the Papists Acosta o De Temp. Nouiss l. 2. c. 15. saith All the light and reputation of Ecclesiasticall order lieth worne out and buried in the time of Antichrist the Priests lamenting the Church doores destroyed the altars forsaken the Church empty because there are none to come to the Lambes solemnitie And p Vpon 2. The. 2 3. the Rhemists It is verie like be it spoken vnder the correction of Gods Church and all learned Catholickes that this great defection or reuolt shall not be onely from the Romane Empire but specially from the Roman Church and withall from most points of Christian religion For that neare to the time of Antichrist and the consummation of the world there is like to be a great reuolt of kingdomes people and Prouinces froÌ„ the externall open obedience and communion thereof For the few dayes of Antichrists reigne the externall state of the Romane Church and publicke intercourse of the faithful with the same may ceasse q Aquipontan contra Sâ—hn de Antich pag. 23. Tho. Boz de Sign Eccl tom 3 l. 24 cap. 9.10 Others thinke that then the sacrifice of the Eucharist shall be taken away And r Dom. à Soto 4. d. 46. qu 1. art 1. some affirme The departure and reuolt of the whole world froÌ„ the sea of Rome shall be a signe of the end of the world the faith being extinguished by reason of this reuolt Thirdly Å¿ Apo. 13. 17. that which the world and the kingdomes thereof followeth as the Church may fall out to be the synagogue of Antichrist whose doctrine is poyson whose Pastours be Wolues in sheepes clothing and whose people be the bastards of the whore of Babylon that none can discerne the true beleeuers but such as are specially enlightened by Gods Spirit therunto Thus writeth Gregorie of Valence When we say the Church is alway coÌ„spicuous t Annal. fid l 6. c. 4 coÌ„ment Theol. tom 3. pag. 145. saith he this must not be taken as if we thought it might at euery season be discerned alike easily For we know that sometimes it is so tossed with the waues of errors schismes and persecutions that to such as are vnskilfull do not discreetly enough weigh the circumstances of times and things it shall be very hard to be knowne Which then specially fell out what time the falshood of the Arrians bare rule almost ouer all the world therefore we denie not but that it will be harder to discerne the Church at some times then at other some yet this we auouch that it alway might be discerned by such as could wisely esteeme things To the same effect u Relect. controâ— 1. q 3 pag. 30. writeth D. Stapleton 4 Whereby it appeareth that if our aduersaries would set contention aside the matter of the visible and inuisible Church were at an end for themselues thinke it may be driuen into the same straits that we complaine of as will appeare by examining the places alledged And no doubt they could haue bene contented to haue called it the inuisible Church too as we do buâ— that as in all other matters so in this it was their lucke to come after vs and we by euill hap vsed the terme before them and so matred x See Rhem. vpon 1. Tim. 6.20 2. Tim. 1.13 the Catholicke phrase that now it cannot relish in their mouthes But in the meane time let the Iesuite speake indifferently what fault we haue made that our Church must be condemned for no Church because it was sometime obscured and yet his be the Romane Catholicke Church though it be subiect to the very same inconueniences For though he say their Church is neuer thus obscured but in the times of Antichrist yet this granteth as much as we say that it may be hidden and then we reply that all those dayes of the Churches inuisibilitie were the dayes of Antichrist § 18. The second part to wit that Christs Church must as long as it is be alwayes visible I proue First because Christ our Sauiour ordained this his Church to be the light of the world according to these words Matth. 5. Vos est is lux mundi and to be a rule or meane by which all men at all times may come to an entire and infallible knowledge of the true faith as hath bene alreadie proued but how can it be the light of the world if it selfe be inuisible or how can it be a meane by which at all times the infallible truth in all points of faith should be made knowne to all sorts of men if it selfe at anie time could not be knowne of men Or if you
And Tertullian lib. de praescript And Optatus lib. 2. contra Parmen The Answer 1 The ancient Fathers affirme not one word of all this First they affirme not that the Romane Church was then gouerned by Popes as now it is For they saw not how it is gouerned now and therefore could not affirme it And that it was not in their time thus gouerned I haue shewed Digression 27. and 49. num 6. and 51. num 9. The Bishops of Rome in their time I graunt were called Popes and Occumenicall as a Ep. Arsen apud Athan. apol 2. Basil ep 52. Iustin Nouell 3. 5. in tit Balsam respons in iure Graecorsi Ioan. Aquipont de Antichr p. 107. other Bishops also were but they had no such authoritie as now they vsurpe Their owne b Concord l. 2. c. 12. Cusanus may teach them that he is gotten beyond the ancient obseruations not hauing that power belonging to him which certaine flatterers giue him And Duarenus a Papist likewise yet c De sacris eccles benef l. 1. c. 16. confesseth as much as I say that Phocas made him the vniuersall Bishop which authority his successors haue maruellously increased 2 Next albeit they affirme the Church of Rome to be the lawfull and Apostolike Church yet they affirmed not the present Romane Church which they neuer saw so to be He that affirmed Lais to be a virgine when she was ten yeares old did not say she was so at tweÌ„tie Rome since their death hath plaied the whore and lost that name and reputation which the fathers had of her Which answereth all the places cited out of Irenaeus Austine Ambrose Hierome and Cyprian For calling Rome the Apostolike Church they spake of their owne time and not of ours 3 Thirdly they do not affirme the Romane Church in their dayes to be lawfull and Apostolike for no other reason but because it had a lineall succession from the primitiue Church but as I haue answered d Sect. 53. n. 2. inde before because it had withall the succession of doctrine which the present Papacie hath not Neither did they thinke that therefore it had succession of doctrine because it had succession of Priests as if the former must needs be inseparably ioyned with the later For their words expresse no such thing as I haue shewed They reuoke schismatickes to the succession indeed of the Romane Church as they did likewise of others and obiect it against them but not it alone nor so as they would assume all succession for euer to be ioyned with the true faith though then in the Churches named it was Neither did they beleeue the Priests whom they so called to be sacrificers or Massing Priests They vsed the name but they gaue it not the definition which the Church of Rome now vseth Vpon all which it followeth that the ancient fathers affirmed not the Romane Church at this day to be the true Apostolicke Church though you see into the places cited an hundred times the which are answered Sect. 53. principally for this cause that the reasons whereupon they so commended it then hold not now in our dayes as they did in theirs If our aduersaries will take benefite by that which the fathers say in commendation of the Romane Church in their dayes they must proue their succession as inuiolated and their doctrine as sound as then it was which they can neuer do § 57. Now to make an end considering all this which I haue said and proued to wit that there is but one infallible and entire faith the which is necessarie to saluation to all sorts of men the which faith euerie one must learne by some knowne infallible and vniueâ—sall rule accommodate to the capacitie of euerie one the which rule can be no other but the doctrine and teaching of the true Church which Church is alway to continue visible to the worlds end and is to be knowne by these foure markes aforesaid agreeing onely to the Romane Church whereupon it followeth that it only is the true Church of which euery one must learne that faith which is necessarie to saluation considering I say all this I would demaund of the Protestants who will not admit the authoritie or doctrine of the Church how they can perswade themselues to haue that faith whereby they may be saued or by what right they can chalenge vnto themselues the title of the true Church since as I now haue proued they haue neuer a one of these foure markes which by the common consent of all are the true markes of Christs true Church How can theirs be the true Church which neither is one because it hath no meanes to keepe it in vnitie nor holy because neither was there euer man of it which by miracle or by some other vndoubted testimonie can be proued to be truly holy Neither is their doctrine such as those that most purely obserue it do without faile become holy nor catholike because it teacheth not all true things which haue bin held in former times but denieth many of them Neither is it spread ouer all the Christian world but euery particular sect is contained in some few corners therof neither hath it bene euer since Christ but sprong vp of late the first founder being Martin Luther an apostata Frier a man after his apostasie knowne both by his writings words and deeds and maner of his death to haue bene a notable euill liuer nor Apostolike because the preachers thereof cannot deriue their pedegree lineally without interruption from anie Apostle but are forced to begin their line if they will haue anie from Luther or Caluin or some later How can they then bragge that they only haue the true holy Catholike and Apostolike faith Since this is not found but only in the true holy Catholike Apostolike Church and remaining alwayes as S Augustine said in ventre Ecclesiae in the bellie of the Church It is vnpossible that they which are not of this Church should haue the true faith according to the saying of the same Augustin afore cited Quisquis ab hoc ventre separatus est necesse est vt falsa loquatur whosoeuer is separated from this bellie of the Church he must needs speake false For who can once haue true faith vnlesse he first heare it because fides est ex auditu Rom. 10. Faith cometh of hearing But how can one heare it sine praedicante without one to preach it truly vnto him The Answer 1 That which the Iesuite hath said and proued is granted him to wit that there is indeed but one true faith which is necessarie to saluation to all sorts of men the which as it must so it may be learned by that rule which God hath left infallible vniuersall and accommodate to the capacitie of euery one the which rule is the Scriptures contained in the bookes of the old and new Testament and not that which the Iesuit meaneth by the doctrine and teaching of the
p. 413. saith he will receiue whatsoeuer they bring consonant to the Scripture but what they bring dissonant from it he wil reiect with reuerence vpon the authoritie of the Scripture whereto he wil leane Turrecremata saith k In c. Sancta Romana d. 15 n. 12. The writings of the Doctors are to be receiued with reuerence yet they bind vs not to beleeue them in all their opinions but we may lawfully contradict them where by good reason it appeareth they speake against the Scripture or the truth l D. 9. Noli mei◠nu 4. And euen at this day there may some things be found in the Doctors worthy of reproofe and deseruing no credit c. And m Loc. l. 7. c. 3. Canus Euery one of the Saints except the writers of the Scripture spake with a humane spirit and erred sometime in things which afterward haue appeared to appertaine to the faith And n Bibliot select l. 12. c. 23. Posseuine Some things in the Fathers wherein vnwittingly they dissented from the Church are iudged and reiected Whereby we see not onely that the fathers haue their errors but also that we by the Scripture may be able to discerne and iudge of them and many times though vnwittingly they dissented from the doctrine of the Church that it is no such perillous matter if the Centuries denied sometime what they held The fathers themselues allowed vs this libertie Dionysius Alexandrinus o Apud Euseb hist l. 7. c. 24. saith Let it be commended and without enuie assented to which is rightly spoken but if any thing be vnsoundly written let that be looked into and corrected And p Hom. 13. 2. Cor. Chrysostom I pray beseech you all that leauing this and that mans opiniō you wil search all these things out of the Scripture And Saint Austine q Ep. 112. I will not haue you follow my authoritie to thinke it necessary you beleeue any thing therfore because I say it And put the state of this question as the Iesuits themselues do and this will answer it Gregory of Valenza r Tom. 3. p. 291. saith The question is whether at this day in the controuersies of faith the Christian people should assent to Saint Cyprian for example or to Saint Austine iudging their opinion to be agreeable with the Scripture or to Luther and Caluin and the sectaries thinking the same of their opinion notwithstanding that as well Luther and Caluin as Cyprian and Austine might erre and sometime in other things did erre In this case we pronounce that we must rather assent to Cyprian and Austine Wherein he speaketh absurdly and against that which not onely Austine and Cyprian but his owne Doctors also permit For you see it is agreed first that the fathers may erre then that many of them may erre together thirdly that the learned of this present time in many things haue more vnderstanding then they had and lastly that therefore with reuerence they may in some things be refused Which sheweth manifestly that we hold the truth and the same which the Papists themselues practise when we say Luther or Caluine or the Centuries are sometime to be beleeued rather then Cyprian and Austine The reason is because sometime they haue better meanes to see the truth then they had the which if it be denied then all libertie and possibilitie of discerning humane iudgements by the Scripture is taken away euen from our aduersaries and all For if the Papists in expounding the text or determining a question require sometime to be beleeued before a father yea many fathers yea all the fathers which they very ordinarily do as I will plainly demonstrate by and by why may not we take the same libertie 9 This being our iudgement touching the fathers now let vs proceed to see what our aduersaries ascribe vnto them and indeed it cannot be denied but they professe much subiection to them ſ Brist mot 14. They crie What they beleeued I beleeue what they held I hold what they taught I teach what they preached I preach But let vs enquire how they performe this Wherein the first point you haue to obserue is who they meane by the fathers And t Greg. à . Val. tom 3. pag. 29◠the Iesuites answer not onely the ancient Doctors that liued in the Primitiue Church but such also as euery age hath yeelded for the time present who are presumed neuer to haue swarued from the common consent of the auncient fathers And thus the Schoole-men are also to be put in the number And so to begin with you haue the Friers and Schoole-men Thomas Scot Biel Durand and such like that liued but yesterday and were parties which our aduersaries canonized for Saints and made them of the same companie with the auncient fathers that following their late conceits they shall yet be sayd to follow the fathers And indeede u Henriq sum mor. prooem they say Thomas of Aquine is the first Doctor of the Latine Church and the light of all the world who yet liued not foure hundred yeares since and shame not to say x Ban. part 1. pag. 79. the Schoole Doctors are the masters of the Church in things of faith and it is error in matter concerning faith or manners to contradict their sayings yea the matters wherein all of them agree may be defined as points of faith This is more then ridiculous first to talke so grauely of the auncient fathers and then to clap such Nouices into the definition 10 Next you shall obserue what they meane when they say All the Doctors or the fathers consenting in one For y Greg. à Val. vbi supra p. 293 the meaning is not that they know the iudgement at any time vnlesse it be very rare of all but this is it They are to be counted All the Doctors whose authoritie is such that the circumstances of their learning pietie and multitude considered they alone may iustly be regarded and the rest neglected as no body if they be compared with these And thus one or more Doctors erring may be pressed with the authoritie of the rest Thus you see another deuice that although they brag of all the fathers and say they will refuse nothing wherein they all consent yet when it cometh to scanning they haue no hope so much as to finde this consent of all but referre it to their owne discretion wisely to iudge by circumstances who are all and what the consent is that so when the streame of Doctors runneth against them they may turne it aside by this deuice 11 Thirdly you shall obserue that hauing defined their Doctors who they be then in the next place they giue soueraigne authoritie to the Pope ouer them to explane their meaning to allow them dissallow them purge them and fit them to their purpose and by his good permission euery Catholicke man may frame a fit exposition to that they say z Alua. Pelag. planct
l 1. art 6. One saith We are to stand to the Popes iudgement alone rather then to the iudgement of all the world besides a Greg. à Val. to 3. pag. 293. Another that when the question cannot be fitly decided by the opinion of the Doctors then it is free for the Pope to interpose his authoritie Another b Turrecrem Sum. l 3. c 44. Bell. de conc l. 2 c. 17. that the Pope is aboue all Councels and the vniuersall Church and acknowledgeth no iudge vpon earth ouer him c Quanto de translat Episc in Gloss Another that he hath a heauenly iudgement and maketh that to be the meaning that is not d Caiet 27. q. 1. art 9. Another that the authoritie of the vniuersall Church and of a Councell and of the Pope is reputed to be all one Whereby you may see that whatsoeuer the fathers say or howsoeuer they consent yet it is in the Popes power to assigne the meaning And as if all this were too little e Index expuâ—gat Belg. p. 12. they openly professe that in the ancient Catholicke writers they tollerate many errors they extenuate and excuse them and oftentimes deny them by deuising a shift and faining some handsome sense to giue them when in disputations they are opposed against them and in conflicts with their aduersaries What needed all this if they followed the fathers as they pretend and why vse they this excusing shifting denying eluding them and why are they faine to call in the Pope to charm them if they think they haue their vniuersall consent as they preteÌ„d Nay let them say bona fide why haue they purged and razed and changed the writings of their owne Schoolemen and later Diuines and in later impressions changed them in infinite places from that which the authors writ but that their conscience telleth them they are shrunk from that which the Church of Rome held euen in their daies 12 But all this will not serue their turne neither though men not acquainted with the practise of hereticks would haue little looked for it at their hands that so insolently bragge of the fathers You shall now see in that which followeth that they openly reiect them also and deny their doctrine as ordinarily as euer any did And iudge thereby if it were possible the Centuries should be more negatiue then themselues In the question touching the cause of Predestination f Sixt. Sen. bib l. 6. annot 251. one of them hauing reckoned vp eleuen fathers chargeth them that they held the prescience of merits The which opinion saith he was condemned in Palagius g Mich. Medin Orig. sacr hom l. 1. c. 5. Another saith that Hierome Austin Ambrose Sedulius Primasius Chrysostome Theodoret Oecumenius Theophylact which are the chiefest of the fathers in the question concerning the difference betweene a Priest and a Bishop held the same opinion that Aërius the Waldenses and Wickliffe did whom he counteth for heretickes and chargeth those fathers with the same heresie In the matter touching the baptisme of Constantine the great h Baron an 324 n. 43. 50. inde they reiect Eusebius Ambrose Hierom Theodoret Socrates Sozomen and the whole Councell of Ariminum and say They deserue no credit because they haue written the truth that he was baptized by Eusebius the Bishop of Nicomedia In the question about the conception of the virgin Mary i Almain potest Eccl. c. 16. Clictou super Damascen l. 3. c. 2. Fra. Titl Ioh. 2. they hold she had no originall sinne and that it is a point of our faith so to beleeue and that it is impietie to think otherwise and yet k Bann part 1. pag 75. they acknowledg all the fathers with one consent held the contrary l An. 395. n. 42. Baronius censureth all the Historiographers of the fourth age both humane diuine He saith Though there were abundance of them yet some were too obscure some too short some wanted order some diligence some pietie and truth and some for priuate affection writ lies Thus they encounter whole troopes of fathers together 13 Now you shall see how they entertaine them at single hand one by one or a few together as they meet them m Stapl. iustif lib. 2. c. vlt. Austin went beyond all good measure in this dispute with the Pelagians n Sixt. Sen. bibl lib. 5. pref he attributeth sometime too little to mans will o Alphons adu haer verb. Episcopus I will beleeue Anacletus a notable counterfet better then either Ierome or Austin No maruell if Ierome were deceiued when good Homer sometime is taken napping p Turrian scol Graec. in const p. 172. Though Chrysostome and Austin and some other fathers say Iudas receiued the sacrament yet the constitution of Clement q Balsam resp apud ius Graecorum tom 1. p. 363. another egregious counterfet is rather to be beleeued r Ban. 22. p. 630 Certaine moderne Diuines haue forsaken Saint Austin and Thomas in a matter of great weight and haue followed their owne false imaginations Å¿ Tolet. Rom. 9 p. 421. I do not in this point allow the doctrine of Austin Ambrose Chrysostome Theodoret and Photius t Maldonat Ioh. 6. Let the reader beware that when he readeth Chrysostome vpon this place he fall not into Pelagianisme u Baro. an 216. n. 16. An euill spirit so caried Tertullian that of euill being made worse and most filthy he spued out most horrible blasphemies x Bellar. Rom. Pont. l. 4. c. 8. Little credit is to be giuen Tertullian in this matter for he was a Montanist And yet y Baron ann 201. n. 7. I would not deny Saint Ieromes authoritie but that Tertullian saith otherwise z Errores articulat à Parrhisiens p 139. Cyprian and Ierome writ erronious and hereticall opinions which we do not reade they euer retracted a Ibid. It is plaine that Ieromes doctrine was erronious in some part and that in things pertaining to the faith and teaching of the Apostles b Can. loc l. 11. c 6. Pope Gregory and Bede the one in his dialogues the other in his English history misse it now and then c Baron ann 433. n. 30. They are deceiued which thinke Cassian was in euerie part a Catholicke And Gennadius was a Pelagian as well as he d Bellar. purg l. 2. c 8. Origen was seene in hell burning with Arrius and Nestorius e Baron ann 256. n. 40. I wonder certaine new writers dare still put forth apologies for him f Posseuin bibl sel l. 1. c 25. Eusebius was an ArriaÌ„ in al his works a man of a double mind g Baron annal tom 1. prefat He lied in many things he was full of Arianisme h Baron ann 324. n. 48. No remedy but we must needes say Eusebius lied falsely i Baron ann 395. n. 41.