To this M. Downam answereth not a word neither indeed could he for euery part and parcel is most euident and playne and therefore he was inforced to run to his old shift and to bring vs his wonted figure of petitio principij by which he desireth vs to graunt him his conclusion that the Pope is Antichrist without any further proofe But he must pardon vs because it importeth vs much to hould with Christ which we cannot see how we can possibly doe if we oppose our selues against his substitute and Vicegerent as though he were Antichrist as M. Downam would haue vs. To the third instance M. Downam answereth more formally denying that the Scripture speaketh of the carrying of this marke and the carrying of it indifferently either in the forehead or in the Antichrists Character may be caried either in the right hand or forehead hand But by M. Downams leaue the Scripture mentioneth both the forehead and the right hand that with disiunction that all must haue the marke in the one or in the other by which it is plaine that either of them will serue so that it is indifferent to Antichrist in which of them his marke be carryed so that it be carried in the one of them for that it must be carryed is euident by the Scripture euen according to M. Downams translation which is this That he may giue them a marke on their right hand or els on their foreheads For surely if he giue them a marke on either place they must carry it perforce Now as for his Mysticall interpretation that they shall receaue this marke on their forehead by profession or in the right This Character is not profession or practise hand by practize and operation first it is hard to vnderstand how profession is made with the forehead except there be some marke vpon the forehead and it will be no very easy matter for Antichrists Ministers to examine euery man that would 〈◊〉 or 〈…〉 practise and operation and finally those vactions which are assigned can hardly be drawne to either of these two heads if profession be taken properly for declaration by speach and practise for our owne actions and operations since they doe rather import a suffering and passiue receauing then any actiue operation in which notwithstanding they draw neerer to this marke which shal be giuen by Antichrist and receaued by all others and therefore neither profession not practise agreeth well to this M. Downam contradicteth himselfe marke Finally M. Downam seemeth to contradict himselfe for on the one side he will haue profession and practise to answere to the forehead and hand and consequently to be the marke and yet a little after he saith that the subiection it selfe is the marke which is not only contrary to the former but also foolish since that this subiection is the thing signified by the marke and not the marke it selfe For what wise man would euer say that subiectiō is a signe or marke but rather that other things are signes and markes of it as appeareth plainly to any that will consider the subiection of seruantes to their Maisters subiects to their Prince and of Christians to Christ and God c. To the fourth instance M. Downams answere is that Antichrist shall prohibite all Christians that haue not his marke to buy or sell c. but he will permit the Iewes c. But we find no such exceptiō in the Scripture which generally affirmeth that he shall not permit any little or great rich or poore free or bound vnder which diuisions no doubt not only the whole nation of the Iewes but euen euery particuler Iew is comprehended And besides we find no such rigour in the Pope towards M. Downams Christians for though that Bull of Martinus Quintus had ben generall for all The Bull of Martinus Quintus against the Hussites tymes and places as it was not yet doth it not exact that euery man should professe by word or worke his subiection to the Pope before he be admitted to buy or fell any thing at all especially such things as are necessary for daily sustenance but only excludeth all Hussites c. from all human conuersation when voility or decessity or some other lawfull circumstance doth not otherwise require which are openly manifestly and notoriously such which is farre lesse rigour then Antichrist shall vse and yet much more then we see vsed in many Countries now euen by Martinus Quintus his authority where Catholikes and Heretikes are permitted to liue peaceably togeather Yea euen in Italy Spayne Rome it selfe where they are most carefull to auoyd this contagion there is no such rigour vsed as M. Downam See part 2. cap. 8. §. 7. speaketh of the reason of which we shall afterward declare more at large But though all this be true yet we must not omit to obserue that Bellarmine in this instance only impugneth three of the markes which M. Downams brethren assigned viz. Chrisme the Oath of Fidelity and Preisthood All which three it is euident that not only all Iewes but likewise very many Christians yea Catholikes also haue not and yet are permitted to buy and sell neither are they once questioned withall about any of them All which M. Downam could not choose but see though because he could find no solution for Bellarmines instance thus lymited he thought best to runne to generalityes where he might roue a◠randome and make his Reader belieue that he had something to say though he saw himselfe that he could say nothing directly to the purpose M. Downam hauing this dispatched the first argument commeth to the second where first he affirmeth that though those things had bene vsed in the Catholike Church before the reuelation of Antichrist yet that hindereth not but that now they may appertayne to the marke of the beast because he doubteth not to affirme that there were many corruptions crept into the Church before the reuealing of Antichrist which he was to retayne with increase So that as you see the marke of Antichrist was in the world before himselfe yea in the Catholike Church which consequently must The Church of God cannot haue the marke of Antichrist needes belong to Antichrist and be a great freind of his as indeed she is to the Pope and euer was and wil be as to her chiefe Pastour vpon earth But how she should beare and vniuersally imbrace any marke or corruption of Antichrist seemeth as vnpossible as that Christ and Antichrist shall haue both one marke or one Church and therefore M. Downam must either perswade vs that euen from the Apostles tymes the Church of Christ bare Antichrists marke and consequently that he was then come or els he must graunt that his brethren haue not rightely assigned the markes of Antichrist but rather haue vttered an horrible M. Downams blasphemy blasphemy charging Christs Church and consequently Christ himselfe who teacheth his Church with the markes and
Church but only their owne fancies because so it seemed necessary for their reputation and credit or some other human and priuate respect how much soeuer they pretend to be only moued by Scripture for of this they admit no more The Protestants haue no probable rule of faith nor any true faith at al. then they please and for the interpretation they haue no other rule then their owne pruate spirit or fancy which is far of from being any probable rule of truth much lesse so certaine as is necessary for the certainty of diuine and supernatural faith to be built vpon And this is the true reason why the Church of God is but one because there is but one rule of fayth from which whosoeuer falleth cannot haue any true faith at all nor belong to the true Church of God The other comparison which M. Downam vseth is much les to the purpose for it is not the Church but the Bishop of Sardis as he himselfe saith that it is agreed by In his Sermō at Lābeth pag. 2. Apoc. ◠1. Interpreters both new and old who had a name that he liued but indeed was dead neither was this death for want of faith but of charity and good workes as is manifest and though it were otherwise yet M. Downam could proue nothing by this comparison except we would belieue his bare word that the Church of Rome were in this case which is our chiefe question and M. Downams wonted figure to take it as granted Wherfore since he can argue no better let vs see how he can answere 7. To Bellarmines first reply vpon Caluins deuise that the Roman Church is not the true Church but that there VIII remaine in it only the ruines and reliques of a true Church M. Downam granteth that all visible Churches may faile and fall away but not the inuisible Church of Christ which he calleth the Catholike Church nor any one sound Christian that is of this inuisible Church In which answere he graunteth Bellarmine as much as he went about to proue that the gates of hell in his opinion haue preuailed against Christs visible Church so that in a whole thousand yeares Christ had not so much as one constant professor of his truth and though I might easily proue that Christ spake of his visible Church and that it The visible Church is to endure to the end of the world was to endure vntill the worlds end yet now I will not trouble my Reader with so needles a digression since the matter is so plaine and euident in it selfe that me thinks any man which maketh accompt of Christ his passion and glory or of his desire to saue soules and to prouide for their conuersion and faith should stop his eares not to heare so great a blasphemy vttered as M. Downam is not ashamed to affirme yet if any man haue any doubt or desire to be more fully satisfied in this point let him read Bellarmine him selfe lib. 3. de Ecclesia militant cap. 12. 13. To Bellarmines second reply M. Downam answereth that it proueth nothing except he suppose that the Church of Rome is the only true Church But he should haue answered it in forme admitted only that which Caluin auoucheth that the Papists hold the ruines of the Church and the foundations yea the buildings themselues halfe throwne downe for out of this only Bellarmine argueth and sheweth that the Protestants can neither haue the whole intire church since in their opinion it is fallen nor the part which remaineth of it since they grant The Protestants cannot haue the Church of Christ but only some new building of their own it to be amōg the Papists to which delēma M. Downā answereth not a word but only braggeth that the Church of Rome may fall yet the Catholicke Church of God may stand yea shall stand c. But he forgetteth himselfe marketh not what his Maister Caluin hath graunted that not only the Church of Rome but euen the very Church of Christ is fallen and that the Papists haue as much as is left of it cōsequētly the Protestāts can only haue some new hereticall building of their owne though M. Downam be neuer so loth to acknowledge it Neither will the example of the Church of Iuda vnder Iosias serue his turne for that was only a reformation of manners and a destruction of Idolatry without any departing from the ancient Church of God in which remained the true succession of Priests and Gods true religion after a visible manner no otherwise then if it should please his Maiesty to put downe heresie and aduance Catholike Religion in his Kingdome which were only to imbrace the true Church of Christ and not to erect any new building as the Protestants haue done as Bellarmine conuinceth 8. M. Downam hauing thus impugned Bellarmines arguments commeth to refute his solutions to their obiections and wheras Bellarmine gaue three solutions to the first See part 2. cap. 2. M. Downam passeth two of them ouer in silence telling vs that he hath taken thē away in another place which how true it is the Reader shall be iudge when we come to that encounter Now let vs see how he refuteth the second solution which Bellarmine giueth that the harlot of which S. Iohn speaketh is Rome Ethnick raigning worshiping Idols and persecuting Christians and not Rome Christian the Apoc. 17. contrary of which M. Downam neuer goeth about to proue with any new argument as he should haue done it being his turne now to argue but only contenteth himselfe to answere Bellarmines proofe which he doth also by halfes for Bellarmine proueth his exposition euidently by the authority of Tertullian S. Hierome and sheweth the impudency of heretikes that are not ashmed to alleadg those authours altogeather against their meaning to proue that S. Iohn speaketh of Rome Christian To all which M. Downam giueth him not a word but is very well content to be thus beaten so that it may not be spoken of but to the other proofe he thinketh himselfe able to say something therfore answereth two wayes 1. that though Popish Rome had not dominion ouer the Kings of the earth and were not drunke with the blould of the Saints and martyrs of Iesus yet we might vnderstand the Apostle thus that that Citty which then had dominion ouer the Kings of the earth and then persecuted the Saints is called Babylon because it was to be the seate or sea of Antichrist So that as you see M. Downam will haue Rome to be called Babylon because it was to be the seate or sea of Antichrist which he supposeth as manifest though Bellarmine in this third solution and before also in one of his arguments both which M. Downam passeth ouer in silence sheweth manifestly that Antichrist shall hate this Babylon and not make it the seat of his kingdome So that this first solution is nothing but M. Downams wonted
will permit no other Gods besides himselfe cap. 14. 11. 12. He shall commit the greatest sinnes when he cannot all cap 14. n. 12. How he may extoll himselfe aboue God ibid. he shall not worship or honour many Gods c 14 n. 14. He shall adore the diuell secretly c. 14. n. 14. his disposition ibid. He shall worke many signes c 15. n. 1. he is not proued to be King of the Iewes because Antiochus was so c. 16. n. 9. he shall arise from base estate cap. 16. n. 14. sequ He shall ouercome ◠Kings cap. 16. n 12. he shall subdue the 7 Kings which remayne after the three and so he shal be monarch of the whole world cap. 16. n 14. he shall persecute the Christians through the whole world with an innumerable army cap. 16. n. 1◠c. 17. per totum Antichristianisme is not Atheisme c. 4. n. 12. Antiochus Epiphanes is not spoken of at all in the 7. 11. chap of Daniel cap 7 n. 7. he was an Idolater c. 14. n. 12. he impugned not the Gods of Syria c. 14. n. 16. he worshipped many Gods ibid he was a type of Antichrist only in some principall points cap. 16. n. 3. Only he among the Kings of Syria is in the Scripture accounted a persecutour of the Iewes c 16. n. 7. how he arose from base estate cap. 16. n. 14. seq he inuaded not Egypt oftner then twice c. 16. n. 13. Antiochus Magnus Seleucus Philopater his elder sonne were the Iewes benefactors c. 16. n. 7. Arias Montanus cap. 6 n. 3. S. Augustine answereth Downams obiection c. 6 n 5. 8. he maketh no more doubt that Elias shall come then that S. Iohn Baptist is come ibid. The Apostasy is not the mistery of iniquity c. 2. n. 16. c. 14. n. 3. B BELL ARMINES aduantage in this controuersie cap. 1. n. 1. He agreeth with former Catholikes c. 1. n. 2. he is vniustly charged by Downam cap. 7. n. 5. c. 8. n. 5. c. 10 n. 7. c 14 n 10. c 16. n. 11. he vrgeth Downams obiection further then he doth himselfe c. 11. n. 9. his sincere dealing cap. 12. n. 1. He reuerenceth the Fathers c. 14. n 7. C CALVIN thinketh that only Christ is in heauen and that others stay without cap. 6. n. 6. The Canons of the generall Coūcell c ◠n. 4. Catholike doctrine standeth not so much vpon denyalls as the Protestants doth c. 12. 13. The Character of Antichrist shall be common to all in his Kingdome c. 11. n. 4. It shal be carryed not only by Christians but also by Iewes ibid. It may be carryed in the right hand or in the forhead ib. It is not profession or practise ibid. It shal be visible c. 11. n. 12. Christs first comming was not terrible as his second shall be c. 6. n. 3. His power and knowledge are not to be limited by that which he did cap. 2. n. 17 He and Antichrist cānot haue both one marke c. 11. n. 7. The Church of Christ cānot haue the marke of Antichrist c. 11 n. 5. The Church was alwayes subiect to the Pope ibid. The Church cōprehendeth not all that professe the name of Christ cap. 13. n. 4. There is one visible Catholike Church cap. 13. n. 5. It is to endure to the end of the world cap. 13. n. 7. Chrisme vsed in the Church before the yeare 607 c 11. n 6. how it maketh vs Christians ib. how it is more to be reuerenced then Baptisme ibid. The Conuerting of one argueth more power then the peruerting of many cap 6. n. 6 The Councell of Chalcedon cap. 3. n. 4. D THE Tribe of Dan fell not first to Idolatry c. 12. n. 2. Why it is omitted Apoc 7. ib. Dayes are not taken for yeares cap. 8. n. 7. The Diuell is signified by the beast Apoc 17. c. 15. n 5 6. M. Downam seemeth not to haue read so much of Bellarmine as he impugneth cap. 3. n. 4. he omiteth Bellarmines proofes and answereth his owne cap 4 n. 4. 5. 6. 7. he changeth Bellarmines argument c. 5. n ◠3. c. 8 n. 7. c 13. n. 9. he taketh the obiection and omitteth the answere c. 6 n. 4. c. 13 n 9. 10. He cannot defend his fellowes c. 2. n. 14. c. 6 n. 6. c 8. n. 7. c. 14. n. 12. 19. c. 16. n. 14. he impugneth his fellowes cap. 8 n 7. c. 10. n. 7. He impugneth himselfe cap. 12. n. 2. 9. c. 15. n. 5. ◠he contradicteth himselfe cap. 5. n 5. c. 10. n. 3. 4. 6. c 11. n. 4. 12. c. 13. n. 1. c. 16. n. 5. 7. 12. he speaketh from the purpose c. 2. n 12. 15. c 14. n. 6. 8. 10. c. 16. n. 4. 8. his petitio principij c. 2. n. 17. 20. c. 5. n. 3. c. 6. n. 4. c 7. n. 3. 7. c. 10 n. 4. 5. 7. c. 11. n. 4. 7. c. 13. n. 6. 8. 10. he dissembleth the difficulty c. 2. n. 20. c. 4. n. 7. c. 7. n. 4. c. 16. n. 11. his poore shifts c. 3. n. 1. 5. c. 6. n 4. his iuggling c. 10. n. 2. c. 12. n. 2. c. 13 n. 1. 2. he translateth not well c 3. n. 1 c. 5. n. 4. c. 15. n. 3. he expoundeth the Scripture childishly c. 4. n. 8 He mangleth the scripture c. 5 n. 5. c. 6. n. 5. he admitteth what translation interpretation he listeth c. 6. n. 3. he condemneth Ecclesiasticus the Iewes of his time c 6. n 4. he condemneth the Apostles and in some sort our Sauiour himselfe c. 6. n. 5. he ioyneth with Porphiry an Apostata against all ecclesiasticall writers and Iewes also c. 5. n. ◠6. 7. n. 7. c. 16. n. 5. Our Sauiours words in his opinion are not true c. 14. n. 7. his boldnes with the Scripture c. 14. n. 16. he ioyneth with the Iewes in impugning the Pope c. 16. n. 3. his exposition contrary to all others euen his owne fellowes c 16. n. 7. he belyeth the Primitiue Church against the testimonies of the Fathers c 13 n. 9. he scoffeth at S. Gregory cap. 6 n. 7. c 8. n. 6. he corrupteth S. Ireraeus his words and meaning c 10. n. 7. he impugneth the fathers authority c. 12. n. 2. he acknowledgeth the Fathers to be against him c. 14. n. 19. he abuseth S. Hierome c. 16 n. 9 he maketh much account of one Father if he fauoureth his fancy c. 4. n. 1◠he forgetteth what he impugneth c 5. n. 2 c. 7. n. 6. he confirmeth one absurdity with another far greater c 5. n. 2. he cutteth of those wordes which make most to the purpose c 6. n. 3 he proueth an vniuersall by a particuler c 10 n 3. he rūneth to generalities when he cannot answere the particuler argument c. 1◠n. 4. his strange paradexe cap. 14. n. 9. he belyeth the Pope and Church of Rome c. 14.
because the seed of Gods word had bene cast into the world by the Apostles which fructifying and increasing by little and little was to replenish the whole world as one that had put fire to diuers parts of a Citty might trulie be said to haue set all the Cittie on fire because he had applied the fire which increasing by little and little was to consume the whole Cittie And this verie same signifieth the Apostle when he saith in the whole world it is fructifying and increasing for it had not taken possession wholie of the whole world seeing it was yet more and more spread afterward abroad and yet in a certaine manner it had taken possession that is vertuallie and not actuallie We might also answere with S. Hierome in Matth. 20. S. Thomas in Rom. 10. that the Ghospell came to all in two māners one way by fame another way by peculiar preachers and foundation of Churches and that in the first manner the Ghospell came to all Nations of the whole world then knowne in the tyme of the Apostles and that S. Paul speaketh of this in which sort also S. Chrysostome in Matth. 24. is to be vnderstood But in the second manner that it came not then but is to come in the tyme appointed and that our Lord Matth. 24. Luc. vlt. Act. 1. speaketh of this Adde lastlie that it is not absurd if we graunt that our Lord spake properlie and the Apostle figuratiuelie For the reasons which compell vs to take our Lordes wordes in a proper signification haue not the same force if they be applied to the wordes of S. Paul especiallie seeing our Lord spake of a thing to come and S. Paul of a thing past M. Dovvnams Ansvvere confuted 1. IT pleaseth M. Downam to be a little merrie about these 6. Demonstrations calling them six slender coniectures and thinking Bellarmyne troubled with melancholie for deeming otherwise But I will leaue it to the Readers iudgment if it be not more likely that he is loaden with folly Afterward he iesteth at Bellarmine for making Antichrists death the end of the world which shal be after his death to be two signes of his comming As though all this were not to fall out within 3. or 4. yeares after his comming and consequentlie did not plainelie demonstrate that he came not a 1000. yeares since which is that which Bellarmine goeth about to prooue and so might verie well vse these signes to demonstrate his not comming so long agoe 2. But comming to answere the first demonstration it is wonderfull to see how many wordes he spendeth in vaine and how few to the purpose For he being to answere Bellarmines proofes which I haue alleadged he scarse euer toucheth any of them but maketh a long discourse altogeather friuolous about the expositiō of that whole place Matth. 24. Wherefore I shal be inforced to gather vp heere and there some scattered denialls and so replie to this his broken and confused answere 3. And first to the Fathers which Bellarmine alleadgeth as his chiefest proofe I find only these wordes of his Or to what end saith he should I spend my tyme in answering the Testimonies of the Fathers who supposed that the Ghospell should be preached in all the world before the comming of Antichrist seing according to the meaning of our Sauiour Christ it was to be preached in all the world before the destruction of Ierusalem And is not this a wise answere thinke Downam reiecteth the Fathers you to accuse the Fathers to be against Christ because their doctrine is contrary to M. Downams But I take it few will belieue him vpon his bare word against Bellarmine alone much lesse hauing so manie ancient Fathers ioyned with him 4. Bellarmines other proofe was out of the text because by that great tribulation before which it is said that the Ghospell shal be preached in the whole world the Fathers and in particuler S. Augustine vnderstandeth Antichrists persecution But M. Downam neuer mentioning S. Augustine or other Father flatlie denieth their doctrine in this point as he had done in the former therefore indeed neuer goeth about to answere the argument but to denie the conclusiō whatsoeuer the proofes be 5. Yea that which is worse because he would seeme to say something he beareth the Reader in hand that Bellarmine had bene so simple as to prooue his conclusion only Downam omitteth Bellarmines proofes answereth his owne out of those wordes Matth. 24. This ghospell of the Kingdome shal be preached in the whole world in testimony to all Nations And then he answereth verie grauelie But our Sauiour Christ doth not saie that the Ghospell shal be preached throughout the world before the comming of Antichrist but before the end And is not this to get himselfe out of his Aduersaries reach and then to shew great valour in playing his prize by himselfe alone and beating the ayre 6. Another tricke of M. Downās is to answere an argumēt which Bellarmine thought better for breuities sake to leaue vnproued that is that in Antichrists tyme the cruelty of the last persecution shall hinder all publike exercise of true Religion To which M. Downam answereth That it is not necessary that the Ghospell should be preached generally throughout the world at one tyme for it might suffice that in one age it were preached to one Nation and in another age to another people and so in Antichrists tyme it might be preached to some Nations where it had not bene formerly preached therfore might be preached to all Nations before the destruction of Antichrist though it were not before his comming But Bellarmine neuer affirmed that the Ghospell should be generallie preached throughout the world at one tyme but M. Downam dreameth it And if he would haue said any thing to the purpose he should haue tould vs how the Ghospell can be preached to any Nation when the persecution is so great and generall that all publike exercise of true Religion doth cease in all places throughout the whole world And this is all that he bringeth in answere to the arguments Wherfore only there remayneth that we see whether he proueth his owne exposition in those two pointes in which he is contrary to Bellarmine and the Fathers any better 7. For first he will needes haue the consummatiō of which Matth. 24. our Sauiour speaketh to be the destruction of Ierusalem and not the end of the world but yet neuer answereth to any of those argumēts which Bell. hath in his answere to the obiection three o◠the which namelie the authoritie of the Fathers and the two latter reasons are so manifest that M. Downam Downam dissembleth the difficultie delt very politikely in dissembling them since he could not answere them And to proue his owne expositiō he bringeth a conceited inuentiō of his owne to witt that our Blessed Sauiour would comfort his Disciples by telling them that the successe of their Ministry
vpon denials as his doth but rather vpon the affirmative Catholike doctrine standeth not so much vpoÌ„ denialls as that of ProtestaÌ„ts and so though we affirme and proue that the Ghospell is to be preached in the whole world before the end of the world yet we deny not but that it was in some sort so preached before the destruction of Ierusalem thinke that our Sauiour with his diuine wisdome comprehended both in the same wordes for the one being a figure of the other the same wordes may very well be vnderstood of both as we see they were by the Fathers though chiefly for the most WheÌ„ the proper expositioÌ„ is to bee preferred part of the proper distinct preaching in the whole world as the wordes properly taken doe import And wee thinke S. Augustins rule very true that when the wordes may be so taken without manifest absurditie that is the true sense most certaine for otherwise we should haue no certainty lib. 3. de doct christia cap 7. in vnderstanding Scripture at all and in this case admitting both senses may fitly be vsed that vulgar saying of the Mathematicians Quod fit in circulo fit in caelo that which agreeeth in a circle may due proportion obserued be applied to the Heauens which are like to a circle in being round as likewise the end of the world is to the destruction of Hierusalem in many thinges And thus much for the first difference about the word Consummation 13. But now there remaineth another about the great Tribulation which M. Downam likewise denieth to be any other then that of the Iewes and would faine father this exposition vpon S. Chrysostome also which as in the other wee may graunt to be probable but onlie M. Downam will deny that of S. Augustine and other Fathers for none of theÌ„ By the great Tribulation Matth. 24. is meant the persecution of Antichrist a little before the end of the world are so forward as he in denying because they had not his spirit of contradiction and indeed the matter is so plaine that he had need to haue an hard forhead that should deny it S. Marke cap. 13. saith In illis diebus post tribulationem illam sol contenebrabitur c. In those dayes after that Tribulation the sunne shal be darkened c. which happened not after the destruction of Hierusalem except M. Downam will run to that shift to say that it happened after though it were long first which though it were very ridiculous and absurd in it self yet S. Matth. also wholy excludeth it with adding statim forthwith Statim autem post tribulationem dierum illorum sol obscurabitur c. And straight after the tribulation of those daies the sun shal be darkened c. And heere I leaue M. Downam in this strait hoping he will learne to attribute more to the Fathers expositioÌ„s hereafter seeing them so conformable to Gods word 14. And to conclude this Chapter let vs see what M. Downam hath replyed against Bellarmines answere to the obiection where we must note that he endeauoreth onlie to impugne the first answere and to the other two hath not so much as a word to saie for that indeed whatsoeuer he had said against them had byn also against himselfe as likewise against all experience and the proofes with which Bellarmine proued his Minor to wit that at none of those tymes which the heretikes assigne for Antichrists coÌ„ming and much lesse in the Apostles tymes the Ghospell had bene preached properlie in the whole world and therefore wheÌ„ the Apostle saith that it had bene preached in the whole world he were either to be vnderstood figuratiuelie or by fame which are Bellarmines two latter solutions not misliked by M. Downam though if his distinction of preaching but not receauing the Ghospell in the whole world were to the purpose he should graunt the preaching to haue bene properlie in the whole world and so contradict himselfe and fall into the absurdities before mentioned or els be inforced to yield to Bellarmines first solution also which he so eagerlie impugneth that S. Paul Rom. 10. tooke the tyme past for the tyme to come which he calleth a cauillation Rom. 10. thinking that he may be bould with Bellarmine but yet he might haue borne a little more respect to S. Augustine whose Downams immodesty solution it is especiallie hauing so little to say against it You shall heare his owne wordes But say I the Apostle proueth that the Iewes had heard the Ghospell because the sound of the preachers thereof was gone through all the earth and therefore they from whome the Ghospell proceeded to other Nations caâ—â—not be ignorant therof And now let any man iudge if it had not bene more wisdome modestie for M. Downam to haue alleadged S. Chrysostome whose exposition this is as Bellarmine did S. Augustine then to come out with an I say only affirming but prouing nothing neither by authoritie or reason as likewise to haue admitted both these expositions for probable as Bellarmine doth and not set one Father against another who agree well inough and are not so addicted to their owne priuate iudgment that they condemne any other probable opinion though they thinke their owne more probable Now whether of these two opinions is more probable I leaue to others to examine since it were from my purpose to discusse that question But if M. Downam will needes contend I remit him to Cardinall Tolets exposition vpon this place where he explicateth and defendeth S. Augustines opinion against whome if he hath any thing to say in this point he shall not goe vnanswered But I would wish him rather to prooue then to scoffe especiallie at S. Augustine other Fathers otherwise to any discret Reader he will seeme too ridiculous though he vseth all his Sophistrie as he doth heere by telling vs that the Ghospell could not bring How the Ghospell was in the whole world in the Apostles tyme. forth fruite vnlesse it were actuallie and to shew his great learning noteth the same sense in the margent both in latin and greeke But he must know that as it is necessary that the Ghospell should be actuallie in some place of the world before it bringeth forth fruit so is it sufficient that it be vertuallie in the whole world the verie increasing extending it selfe is one manner of â—ringing forth fruite of which the Apostle speaketh which could not be if already the Ghospell had bene actuallie in the whole world and therefore it is to be vnderstood only vertuallie in respect of the whole world as is well declared by the example of a Citty set on fire in some places which may trulie be said to be all on fire vertuallie though actuallie onlie some parts of it be soe And thus wee haue seene what M. Downam hath ben able to saie for himselfe not hauing omitted anie shift of his except he would haue vs