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A09101 A discouerie of I. Nicols minister, misreported a Iesuite, latelye recanted in the Tower of London Wherin besides the declaration of the man, is contayned a ful answere to his recantation, with a confutation of his slaunders, and proofe of the contraries, in the Pope, cardinals, clergie, students, and priuate men of Rome. There is also added a reproofe of an oratiuon and sermon, falsely presented by the sayd Nicols to be made in Rome, and presented to the Pope in his consistorye. Wherto is annexed a late information from Rome touchng [sic] the aute[n]tical copie of Nicols recantation. Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610. 1581 (1581) STC 19402; ESTC S120349 83,096 196

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Church true against heretickes Now then let vs examine bréefly both our marks and those of our aduersaries accordinge to these thrée properties and conditions● Our aduersaries bring two principal markes Cal. li. 4. in ca● 1. num 7. 8.9 whereby they would haue the true Church to be tryed the one is the true vse of Sacramentes the other the true interpretatiō and preaching of God his word which two thinges alb●it they be pri●iledges of the true Church and onely found in the same yet can they be no external markes to shew vnto vs the saied Church Heretical markes re●uted for that they want al those thrée properties of true markes before recited For first they are as vnknowen to vs as the thinge we séeke for it being as hard and obscure and as much in cōtrouersie who doe preach the worde sincerely and administer the Sacramentes aright as it is whi●h is the true Church Secondly these two thinges are not soe proper to the true Church but that euery heretical congregation may and doth in the sight of the world chalēg the same vnto it selfe consequētly it can not be a good marke to distinguishe their cōgregations from the true Church Thirdly the holy Fathers did neuer vse thes two marks against the hereticks of their time but rather did reiect thē when they were brought for marks by hereticks as they are now Li. 3. ca. 19. de bap con Don. ep 48. ad Rog. li. 1. ca. 29. cont Cresc as it may appeare by S. Austē in diuers places against the Donatists Rogatistes and other here●ickes which did labour as he sayeth That their error may be named truth ther wikednes iustice for the sacramēts scripturs which they hold for a shew not to saluation The Catholickes on the other side doe alleag more certaine easie and manifest marks for trial of the Church which markes haue al the properties before recited albeit they vse to bring 15. or 16● s●ueral notes or signes al foūded in the scripturs by vew wherof it is most esie to discerne the true Church from al other yet for breuities sake I wil name only fower thrée whereof are impugned by Iohn Nicolls in his booke The first marke is that the true Church is Catholicke as our Créed teacheth vs 1 Catholicke Au● ep 170. ad Seuer Lirin li. aduer here which word S. Austē expoundeth thus The Catholicke Church is that which is spread ouer the whole world an other father not long a●ter him expon̄deth that to be the Catholike or vniuersal Church which holdeth that faithe ●ero dial con Lucif Pacian ep ● ad Simp. Aug. li de vera religi cap. 7 tract 118. in Ioh. in psal 49. 147. li. 2. cont Pet. cap. 55. ser. 131. de tempore that hath bene h●lde generally by Christians euerye where and in all times since the beginning● And generally al the holy Fathers doe vse and vrge this marke against all heretiques prouing that church onlye to be the true church which being planted by the Apostles and their successors was spread ouer al partes of the world or the chéefe partes therof wherby it tooke the name of Catholique and that all other congregations which afterwarde began in corners or by some one or fewe men contrarie to the more parte of Christianitie can not be the true Church but hereticall Sinagogues Li. de vtili cre cap. 7. Whereas there be many heresies amongest Christians saith S. Austen and all wil seeme to be catholiques calling other men heretiques besides them selues the Catholique Churche is but one more plentifull in multitude if we consider the whole world as al men will graunt And againe Ep. 165. ad gen If an Angel frō heauen should saye leaue the Christianitie of the whole world and hould the partes of Donatus he ought to be accursed for that he goeth about to cutt thee from the whole and to thrust thee into a part And againe Li. 4. de simb ca. 10. Whatsoeuer Congregation of heresie sitteth in a Corner she is a harlot and noe mother Now whether this marke agrée to our churche or theirs let our aduersaries iudge The second marke of the true church is Antiquitie 2 Antiquitie For as God was before the diuel and as the good séede was sowē in the gospel before the cockle Math. 13. soe was Christ his true church before al heresie and al heresies haue sprong vp since our Catholique faithe was planted whiche thing may be shewed in this māner See of this Aug. li. cō Ep. funda cap. 4. Ierō ep ad Pam. Ocean dial con Lucif Hillar li. 6. de trin ante medium For that in euery notable change or alteration of religion these six thinges maye be shewed First the authore of that newe religion secōdly the new doctrine which he taught thirdly the time when he began fowerthly the place or coūtrie wher he began fiftly that some men resisted and impugned this newe doctrine at the beginning sixthly that some other fewe men first began to embrace the same And al these six thinges we can shewe in euery heresie since Christes time as also of the doctrine of our aduersaries But they can neuer shewe the same of the beginning of our doctrine And therfore it appeareth that their doctrine is new and h●retical and ours auncient and Catholique This argument of antiquitie al the Fathers haue vsed against heretiques of their time Lib. de prescrip con here What are you saith Tertuliā to certaine heretiques whēce whē came you where haue you beene hidden soe longe Lib. 2. And Optatus against Parmenian Shew the beginning of your chayre which will challenge the holy Church vnto you The third marke vsed by the ould Fathers to know the true Church 3 Succession is succession of Bishopes frō the Apostles time especially in the sea of Rome Lib. 3. con her cap. 3. For so saieth Ireneus aboue 1300 yeares past reconinge vpp all the Bishopes of Rome from S. Péeter vnto his time And adding that by that succession of Bishopes all heretiques were confounded The same saythe Tertulian Lib. de prescrip Let heretiques laye forthe the beginninge of their churches let them tourne ouer the order of their Bishopes comminge doune by succession● cet Epi. her 27. Epiphanius also vseth this argument of reconing vpp the Bishopes of Rome for proofe of the Catholiqu● faythe and confutation of heresie The like dothe Optatus and S. Augustine against the Donatistes Oopt li. 2. cont Pa●m Au. ●p 165. 42. Willing them to doe the like if they meane to aquite them selues from heresie And the reasone of this is for the Christ leauing his Churche to be gouerned by his Apostles whiche were Bishopes and they by their successors whosoeuer came in afterward not by this lawfull and ordinarie dore of ordination succession Iohn 10 except he bring extraordinarie
proofe of his extraordinarie vocation must néedes be a theef a wolfe as Christe noteth and as all heretiques haue bene seeking to intrud them selues by extraordinarie wayes and meanes starting vp in particuler countries and making them selues gouerners without anye lawfull calling The fowerth marke of the true church is vnitie consent of doctrine 4 Vnitie and consente For as the deuill is authore of dissention soe is God authore of vnitie and concord 1 Cor. 14. Math. 12. Vide. Aug. Li. 18. de tri Li. 52. 41. the true Church being the bodye of Christ ruled by his holy spirite which is alwaies one and the same must néedes kepe one faith and one doctrine And heretiques beinge gouerned by the contrary spirit must néedes change their opinions as the malice of that spirite changeth For which cause the holy Fathers haue alwayes vsed this as an inuincible argument against heretiques For that the Churche hath indured soe manye ages in great varietie of times and infinite men haue written in diuers countries in diuers tongues and vpon diuers occations And yet in al thes writings they haue agréed in all pointes of faith soe manye hundred yeares together which is a signe of one holy spirite gouerninge their doeinges from time to time Contrariewise heretiques albeit they began but in some one countrie yet could they neuer agrée any space of time in one opinion but would range from one thinge to another vntil by dissention they were all extinguished again Soe Ireneus writethe of the first heretique Simon Magus Iren. li. 1. ca. 21. cont her whose heresie was soone deuided into the sectes of Menandrins Bisilidians and Saturnians Li. de bap cap. 6. Soe S. Austen writeth of the Donatistes whose first heresie was quickly deuided into many secttes Epi. li. 1. cō her to 3. Soe Epiphanius testifieth of the Marcionistes of whom in smal time sproung the Lucianistes the Appellians and Seuerians The very same doth IIreneus write of the Ualentinians Irē li. 1. ca. 5. Aug. de her ca. 6. And S. Austen of the Manachies and Epiphanius of the Montanistes Epi. li. 2. to 1 her 80. and of the Massilians And Rufinus of the Arriās whoe almoste euery yeare changed their religion as S. Hillarie also witnesseth Hil. li. 1. ad Const. Eua. li. 3 .4 Finally of the Eutichians and other heresies of the east Euagrius and Damascen beare witnes Dam. li. de 100. heret And of our age it is euident also how many sectes haue begun since Luther Fredericus Staphilus counsailer to the Emporoure Staph. li. de concor Lu. shewethe how Luthers schollers were quickly deuided into thrée sectes that is into Anabaptistes Confessionistes and Sacramentaries and they againe sub-deuided into other sectes insomuche that in his time they were 34. but nowe are manie more Soe that by this marke it is easie to iudge whiche is the true Churche and which is the false Now then let vs examine what Ihon Nicols obiecteth against these markes of the Church which although if be soe impertynente and ridyculous as it is not worthe a confutation yet for the readers instructiō in their maner of dealing I will saye a worde or two about it Against the first marke Nicols obiections againste the ●irst marke which is Catholique fol. 25. he obiectethe out of Exodus 23. Ne insist ito vestigys potētiorum ad mala Follow not the stepes of stronger then thy selfe to doe yuel which he translateth thus Thou shalt not followe a multitude to doe yuell Which is not according to the wordes put downe And albeit it be according to the wordes in the very text yet is his fault double First to put down one thing in latine and an other in English This tricke he vseth in many other places and secondly to deuise latine wordes him selfe which are not in the text But to graun● this and al the rest which he bringeth against wicked multitudes as of Turkes Iewes Infidels heretiques Math. 7. 24 Luc. 12. which often times are more then the good also that Christe his flock was smal in the beginning often oppressed after by persecuton Iereni 18. Esa. 53. cet What is this to the purpose we talke not of al multitudes but o● Christiās nor of Christianitie in the beginning but after it was spread ouer the world nor of vices in manners but of error in faith In res●●●t therfore of Infidels other wicked of the world Christians are but few very mu●h fewer at the beginning in respect of the nomber which they are now for manners both now then the more parte parhapes licencious but this is nothing to our question For notwithstanding al this we say Catholique and priuate that after Christian faith was once spread ouer the world by the Apostles their successors and was receaued in vnitie by the followers therof and therby named Catholique whatsoeuer priuat Congregation began afterward among the said Christians or shal doe to the worldes ende teaching different doctrine from this first receaued general doctrine A sure marke to knowe an heretical Congregation and disagréeing to the vniversall multitude of Christianitie as Arrius Pelagius and Berengarius did in their times and Luther in his this priuate Congregaton I saye is conuicted to be heretical by this first marke of Catholique The Churche tried by Scripture Nether is that refuge of heretiques anye thinge worthe when they saye the Church muste be tryed by the Scripture for we graunte that further forthe then they doe and therfore wee bringe all oure markes out of the Scryptures as by examyninge of them maye appeare Against the seconde marke which is Antiquitie Nicols obiections agaynste Antiquitie Fol. 22. Nicols obiecteth out of Iob 32. Old men doe not alwaies vnderstand iudgemente which is not worth the answering for albeit priuate old men may lacke wit yet Christes old spouse which is the Church can not Secondly he alleageth out of Philip of Mornay Phillippe of Mornay translated by feild that the Church is compared to a shippe on the sea to a citie and to a mans body all which decay by old age and néede reparation and therefore the Church in like manner To which I answere that by as good consequente I mighte argue Io. 15. Apoc. 5. Christ is compared to a vyne and therfore néeded to be lopte also to a Lion and therfore néeded to be fedd with raw flesh which is absurde For similitudes must not be lyke in al things especiallye in the matter whereof we talke where comparison is made in perfections and not in defectes For the Church is compared to a shippe on the sea Math. 8.15 in that as a shippe is tossed by many waues and yet not drowned soe the Church by many persecutiōs is not ouerwhelmed Also to a citie and humane body for that as they haue