call the place so B. I deny that proposition prove it W. The People of God are alone his House God dwells in the Hearts of his Saints B. I Answer the House of God is either the Spiritual House or the Material House The Hearts of his Elect People are the Spiritual House wherein it pleaseth God to dwell and reside This place built by our pious Ancestors and separated from other uses to his Honour and Service may without offence be called his Material House W. This House was not built for the Honour and Service of God B. I expect your proof of that Proposition W. Thus The House built in the reign of Popery and for the Honour and Adoration of Saints was not built for the honour and Service of God But this House was built in the reign of Popery and for the Honour and Adoration of Saints Therefore this House was not built for the Honour and Service of God B. I repeat The House built c. And I answer to the major by distinguishing of the end for which the House was built The End is either principal or less principal This House was built for the Honour and service of God as the principal End it was built for the Honour and Adoration of Saints as the less principal End In the Reformation of Religion our Church reteined the first End and rectifyed the second Honouring the Saints with a pious Memory not Adoring them with divine Worship Hear the Church her self speak in her excellent Liturgy W. H. Away with it we will hear none of your Liturgy and old Forms B. But I must clear the Church from all suspicion of Adoring the Saints and make the Truth evident out of the Collect for All-Saints day and 't is worthy to be heard of All Almighty God which hast knit together thy elect in one Communion and fellowship in the mystical body of thy Son Jesus Christ our Lord grant us grace so to follow thy holy Saints in all vertuous and Godly living that we may come to those unspeakable joys which thou hast prepared for them that unfeignedly love thee through Jesus Christ our Lord Amen I beseech you All to take notice that our Church is free from that superstition or whatever it be called wherewith the Church of Rome is justly charged The Saints are in our Prayers for imitation not for adoration Our Houses therefore being truly built at first for God's Service and now used by us for the right end the setting apart of such places for divine Worship makes them relatively holy and gives God a peculiar Title to them and he owns them for his My House shall be called a House of prayer W. Your own House may be as well used so and called Gods House and a holy place B. No Though God may be served in every place and I serve him dayly in my own house yet the publick place separated for his service I say becomes his by a peculiar right All the world is his but our Churches are his to a singular and holy purpose by a singular dedication As he hath his Day so also a place for his Worship both Holy Keep ye my Sabbath and reverence my Sanctuary For your satisfaction see Mr. Mede's Divine Treatise upon Hallowed be thy name and his letter to D. Twiss Now let us Hoc agere and come to the business of the day H. To the Question of the day my first Argument is this That it is not lawfull to administer the Sacrament in your Parish-Churches thus I prove If you have not a true calling in your Church of England then it is not lawfull for you to administer the Sacrament in your Parish-Churches But you have not a true Calling in your Church of England Therefore it is not lawfull for you to minister the Sacrament in your Parish-Churches B. I repeat If we have not c. I deny your minor and affirm we have a true calling in our Church of England H. If in your calling by the Bishops you are engaged to superstitious and unlawful practices then your calling in the Church of England is not a true Calling but in your calling by the Bishops you are engaged to superstitious and unlawful practices Therefore your Calling in the Church of England is not a true Calling B. I deny your minor and affirme we are not engaged to any superstitious and unlawfull practices is our Calling by the Bishops H. The keeping of Holy-dayes I do not mean Holy-dayes upon occasion as our Thanksgiving dayes but your set holy-dayes the keeping of your holy-dayes is an unlawfull practice But in your Calling by the Bishops you are ingaged to the keeping of Holy-dayes Therefore in the Calling by the Bishops you are ingaged to unlawfull practices B. I deny your major and affirm that the keeping of our holy-dayes is not an unlawfull practice H. A practice against Gods command is an unlawfull practice But your practice is against Gods command Therfore your practice is an unlawfull practice B. Not against God's command how prove you that H. My text is in 20. Exod. where you shall find it a part of the fourth Commandement Six dayes shalt thou labour and do all that thou hast to do Therefore it is against Gods command to keep any one of the six dayes holy B. I answer two wayes 1. By retortion 2. By interpretation 1. By retortion I say your Argument rebounds upon your self and condemnes your own practice and that Text in your sense that we are commanded to labour six dayes takes away as well occasionall holy-dayes as set and recurrent For our Thanksgiving dayes are not dayes of labour 2. By interpretation the words you urge are not preceptive but permissive God requires one day in seven and allowes us six not denying us the liberty if we be so devout as to consecrate some part of them also to his publick Service The Jewes had among their holy-dayes the feast of Dedication of human Institution which yet we read that Christ himself observed H. Worship not instituted by God is unlawfull Worship But your Holy-dayes are a Worship not instituted by God but by human authority therefore your holy-dayes are unlawfull Worship B. I answer to the minor and say that our holy-dayes are not the Worship it self but a circumstance of the Worship and circumstances of Gods Worship may be ordained lawfully by men H. Well your calling by the Bishops however is not lawfull and thus I prove it If the Scripture allowes of no Diocesan Bishops then your calling by the Bishops is not lawfull But the Scripture allowes of no Diocesan Bishops Therefore c. B. I deny your minor and affirme the Scripture does allow Diocesan Bishops H. There is not so much as the name of a Diocesan Bishop in all the Scripture B. But there is more than the Name there is the Thing there is the Office The word Trinity is not in the Scripture yet we Believe the Trinity H. Where doth the
Stepmother seeing that the greatest worldly hopes which are proposed unto the chiefest kind of learning yee seek utterly to extirpate as weeds and have grounded your platform on such Propositions as do after a sort undermine those most renowned habitations where through the goodness of Almighty God all commendable Arts and Sciences are with exceeding great industry hitherto and so may they for ever continue studied proceeded in and profest To charge you as purposely bent to the overthrow of that wherein many of you have attained no small perfection were injurious Only therefore I wish that your selves did well consider how opposite certain your positions are c. Master Edward Leigh a dilligent Collector in his Body of Divinity P. 454 c. THe Socinians say Cum adhuc nova c. The Apostles had a call when the Gospel was newly published there needs not a Ministry now that the Gospel is generally taught and it is promised we shall be all taught of God If we should look for a Ministry where shall we find it Our Ministets were ordained by Bishops they by the Pope Therefore their Calling is Anti-Christian But That there is such an Institution of Christ and this to continue till the worlds end may be thus proved First there are some to whom the word of reconciliation is committed and not to others 1 Cor. 5. 18. Rom. 10. 15. there is a peculiar mission Men cannot Preach as the Embassadors of Christ unless sent Jo. 20. 21. Gal. 1. 1. Secondly because a special authority is committed to such by vertue of their office they have the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven Is 22. 22. Mat. 16. 19. The Brownists say our Ministers are not rightly called into their offices because we received it from Rome Ans Not every thing ordained by Anti-Christ is forthwith to me rejected but only that which he doth qua Antichristus as he is Antichrist But Bishops were before ever Antichrist appeared in the world Brown the father of the Brownists was the first of note that did separate himself from the Church of England and said that we had no Church he meant a true Church But after he went into France and being at Geneva he saw the Sabbath much prophaned and the wafer-cake given in the Sacrament instead of bread whereupon he began to think better of the Church of England and returning home he became Pastor of a Church in Northhampton-shire called Achurch The Church of Rome was a true Church the Reformed Churches separated from it becoming a false Church Though Ministers were ordained in the most corrupt estate of the Church of Rome yet if they forsake the corruptions of the Church of Rome they are true Ministers as the Church of Rome it self if it would cast off its Corruptions should be a true Church There is a double Calling necessary to a dispensor of the Mysteries of salvation Inward and Outward The Inward enableth men the Outward authorizeth them to discharge their sacred function Where there are Gifts if God encline the heart of the party to enter into the Ministry there is an inward Calling Yet this alone sufficeth not without an outward Calling either Ordinary or Extraordinary We are not now to expect extraordinary callings since Miracles are ceased The Ordinary calling is by the Imposition of the hands of the Presbytery Jer. 14. 14. 27. 15. Rom. 10. 5. No other Ordination was heard of for fifteen hundred years or at lest approved of Dr. Featly's distinction of Clergy and Laity In the Reformed Churches of France and Geneva the people give no voice in the Election of Ministers but are only permitted if they have any causes of dislike or exception to make them known to the pastors guides of the Church and the power of judging such exceptions resteth wholly in them When one Morelius a phantasticall companion sought to bring the Elections of Bishops and Ministers to be popular and swayed by the most voices of the people he was condemned by all the Synods in France as Beza sheweth Epist 83. In Scripture we find Election and Ordination frequently distinguished not only as distinct acts but oft-times in distinct hands Deut. 1. 13. The people chuse them who shall be Rulers but Moses makes them Rulers Act. 6. 3. The people chuse the Apostâ—es appoint the Deacons The chusing of a person to an office is not the authorizing of the person elected but the designation of the person to be authorized See Mr. Gillesp Miscell e. 4. The Socinians acknowledge it is fit for Order and Decency to retain Ordination in the Church Peradventure many of the Sectaries of this time will hardly acknowledge thus much Some think that the Ceremony of laying on of hands may be omitted sometimes we must be tyed to example in the lest gesture though not prescribed and yet men presume to dispense in a circumstance prescribed Tit. 1. 5. Timothy was ordained by laying on of hands and enjoyned to lay hands on others in their Ordination 1 Tim. 5. 22. Thus were the Deacons ordained Act. 6. 6. and thus were Paul and Barnabas set apart for the execution of their calling Act. 13. 3. Augustin and Chrysostom preached every day in the week and year at least once or twice without fail Ye heard yesterday yee shall hear to morrow is common in their Tractates and Homilies Mr. Bull 's trial of Separat p. 81. The Papists by way of scoff called the Evangelical Ministers praedicantici Wheras Paul judged preaching his chief Office and would not baptize lest it should be an impediment Bellarmine and the Councill of Trent style preaching praecipuum Episcopi officium The Question saith Mr. Mode on Act. 5. 3 4 5. should not be Whether Tithes are due to the Ministers of the Gospel meaning as a duty of the people unto them but rather Whether they be not due to God for so is the style of the Scripture All the Tithes are mine These I give to Levi and not you There are many other uses for the employment of Bona sacra if they be more than is competent for them and theirs That men though gifted without being called to the Ministry and by Ordination set apart for it should take upon them the office or ordinary exercise of preaching seems repugnant to those Scriptures Rom. 10. 15. Heb. 5. 4. 1 Tim. 5. 22. Christ therefore frequently urgeth this That he was sent from his Father Punishments have been inflicted on those that have medled beyond their call as Uzziah Apage vaesanam illam prophetandi libertatem imo licentiam blasphemandi ut liceat maleferiato cuique tyroni prodigiosissima cerebri sui phantasmata in apricum producere populo commendare praelo Concio D Halli ad Syn. nat Dord Such as want Authority from the Church 1. are none of Christs Officers Ephes 4. 11. 2. They are expresly forbidden it Jer. 23. 21. 3. The blessing on the Word is promised only to sent Teachers Rom. 10. 15.
invested with the ordinary lasting power of ordaining Elders of binding and loosing and of setting things in order herein who were their Successors you may see if you will inform your selves in the book of binding and loosing and in the Latin dissertations against Blondellus Pray take it not ill that we often assert this it is of such concernence that with this truth the Ministers of England must either stand or fall We speak not for Bishops to be Lords of Lands but Fathers of the Church You must all mark that Tr. The differonce 'twixt us appears plainly you are for Bishops which you call the Primitive Apostolical Bishops and in them you place the power which Christ hath left to his Church We are for the Bodies of Congregations which we say are under no superiors neither Bishops nor Presbyters but absolute and independent in respect of man and immediatly under Jesus Christ Col. A. Bishops and Presbyters are all one in the New Testament namely Acts 20. 17. Paul sent to Ephesus and called the Elders of the Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and v. 28. the holy Ghost hath made you overseers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Therefore Presbyters and Bishops are all one P. Noble Sir I answer Bishops in the new Testament are also called Presbyters but they are more than those we now call Presbyters who are to be ordained and governed by the Bishops Any Presbyter may be called Bishop or Overseer of his own Parish but those we eminently stile Bishops now who are Bishops or Overseers and Rulers of those Parish Bishops or Presbyters The Presbyters St. Paul sent for from Ephesus were properly Bishops Tr. No Hear my Argument The Church of Ephesus was but one Congregation I prove it out of Eph. 2. the two last verses In whom Jesus Christ all the building fitly framed together c. A building fitly framed together is but one Congregation But the Church of Ephesus was a building fitly framed together Therefore c. B. To the Major Not only one single Congregation but many united under one Bishop may be so called And that Ephesus was not a single Independent Congregation but a Metropolitical Church you may learn of the most Reverend Primate Dr. Usher a man I think of great Authority among you also as among all Scholars most justly I refer you to his Geographical Tract of the Asian Diocese Tr. Return to the Text Mat. 18. v. 19. I shall prove it undeniably that a single Church hath an independent power But first will you grant me that two or three may be taken for a small Congregation B. Yes I desire to grant you all I can without injury to the Truth Tr. Then thus I argue Where is the Duty and the Blessing there is the Power But in a small Congregation where two or three c. is both the duty and the Blessing Therefore there is also the Power namely of Excommunication B. Where is the duty c. You leave out a very necessary word Independent For supposing that a power of Excommunication were in a particular Congregation I cannot grant it is there independently but there may be an Appeal But did you ever hear of an Indepent Church of two or three Tr. Yes there may be a Church of so few and that independent B. A private Church I grant not a publick enabled with power of Excommunication a power supreme Lo you here is Popery in a little volume an independent absolute supreme Church made up of two or three H. Did you not grant to Mr. Tr. that two or three may be taken for any small number now you recall your words You know if there be twenty in a company we sometimes say there be two or three B. No indeed that 's too far wide Let the people judge of this whether any will say there be two or three if there be twenty persons met in a room Two or three that is twenty silence I pray But Sir the words of Christ are verified if there be but barely two And therefore I may justly think it too small a number to make the Church mentioned v 17. It cannot be for this reason The Church in the 17. v. is of more authority and more in number than the two or three mentioned in the second admonition v. 16. But two or three v. 19 20. are not of more authority nor more in number than the two or three mentioned v. 16. Therefore the two or three v. 19 20. are not the Church mentioned v. 17. Answer this and you shall hold your Supremacy to the worlds end for me H. You hold an Appeal from the Church to the Civil Power which is plain Erastianism B. Erastianisme I shall make it appear to be Christianisme But what was Erastus pray H. I came not here to be Catechized by you B. Erastus was one that denied the power of Excommunication in the Church which I do not but desire it may come into practice upon true Rules If you would know Erastus see the Book of Binding and loosing at large And noble Sir you that are a Civil Magistrate let me call you to witness that I stand here an Advocate truly to plead for the Supreme authority of this Land and I undertake to shew that the Highest powers in the Commonwealth have also the Highest Rule of the Church and may receive Appeals from any Christians that complain of wrong in any Congregation whatsoever Col. A. The Highest Powers haply doubt of that Authority and forbear to execute any such till they be more fully satisfied B. Were I worthy I would request them to know their power and use it for the restitution of Primitive Episcopacy They doubt you say but Sir these men flatly deny that authority of the Civil Magistrate in matters of Religion H. And how I pray do you prove it B. Let every soul be subject to the Higher Powers Every man saith St. Chrysostome whether Lay or Clergy Col. A. There is no such distinction of Lay and Clergy in the Scripture All the Lords people are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his Portion B. Sir you say most true that All the Lords people are his Portion that is as selected and called out of the World but his Ministers are more peculiarly his as called from among his People and admitted nearer to him being separated for the Ministration of Holy things But however all sorts of men I say whether Ministers or others must be subject to the Highest powers Tr. Yea in Civil things they must be subject not in Ecclesiastical The Powers are distinct B. They are distinct in their Objects or Matters about which they are exercised they are united in the same Subjects or Persons that are supreme in all causes both Eccleclesiasticall and Civill W. You were wont to pray for the King in that stile B. Yes when the King was and now they that have the Kingly power may withall assume the same title if they please W. By no means
Mr. B. and Mr. To. retired to their Inn whither the Baylifs and Churchwardens and some other honest men of the Town came to them and gave them thanks The next morning was deliver'd to a Servant of the Parish a Paper to be presented to Mr. H. and published declaring that some Neighbouring Ministers would be ready by Gods help on the Monday following to make good in the same place against Mr. H. and his brethren this necessary Truth which they deny That Parish-Churches of England are the true Churches of Jesus Christ They came but could not prevail with Mr. H. to come forth to Answer Wherefore after some little conference with him at his own house with the Account whereof I shall not now detein you Mr. B. departed and Preacht at Sudeley concluding with an exhortation to Peace and Unity and with an earnest Request to the Congregation that they would give no offence neither by word nor deed to the other party When the Account of the former Dispute was come down Mr. B. sent two Copies one to Mr. H. another to Mr. W. enclosed in these Letters which being come unto my hand I think fit not to conceal and shall adde unto them some other since to the end you may the better understand the Temper of the Author and in what condition he is at this present December 17. 1653. Master Helm HAd you hearkned unto me and embraced my motion for a private conference both you and I had saved some trouble but since the matter is come thus far I intreat you to peruse the account with judgement and let me receive from you any thing that may serve for the perfecting of it I have not wronged you nor do I remember any greater provocation in my former Letters but that I once said Your simple Disciples which word I have cause to retract finding by experience that they have much more of the Serpent than of the Dove From them I suppose rather than from your self is a tempest a raising against me in the Higher Region The opinion I have had of your Moderation and Ingenuity yea and some degree of friendship with you formerly enclines me to hope that by your discretion all may be calmed However being not conscious to my self of any evill Doing either against private or publick persons I do securely wait for the Event I am enemy to no man that 's my Religion They that make it a part of their Religion to persecute Dissenters must take heed lest at their great peril they do good to those they malign for that Good will accrew to those that suffer for the Truth is out of question with Your Servant C. B. Decem. 9. Master Wells IF so high a comparison may be used it may be said of us as it was of two great Romans by the Historian They learned in the same that which in contrary camps they practized You and I were collegues in our Youth and lately had some clashing But Sir I wish you to use no carnal weapons for I am informed there is some intent of force to be offered me Forbear I pray and take off any such prosecution Let us proceed in debate of what is in controversy if you please to proceed without any other arms but such as become Scholars and Divines that is reasons and Arguments You shall find me I assure you on the word of a Christian very willing to yield to any thing I cannot answer Read the enclosed as if you were not a party but a judge and remember the conclusion in Minutius Faelix if you cannot forget you are a party Tu victor mei ego erroris Do not disdain to write your mind to your old acquaintance and Countryman and if you permit Loving friend still Cl. Barksdale Decem. 9. To the Right Worshipful Richard Aylworth Esquire and to the rest of the worthy Justices met at Winchcomb Decem. 17. 1653. Noble Sir TO you I address my self and by you to the rest of the worthy Justices present with you protesting my readiness to wait on you and to be obedient to the present Governours in all lawful things and namely in using or not using the Book of Common Prayer I am ready to use it if it be permitted as I suppose it is by Order of the Council of State November 12. last and I am ready †Never with contempt to lay it aside if they require it to be laid aside For I never thought it the only way of serving God I have done nothing in contempt of any Act or Ordinance of State I have ever Preacht Obedience to Superiours Nor do I desire to live any longer than I may be a profitable Member of this Common-wealth in my little sphear And you will be so tender I hope of the Honour of publick Justice as not to condemn such a man unheard Let not Christian Gentlemen and Englishmen be less equal than Pagan Romans You will in your piety and wisdom I hope give a check to the violence of my Accusers whose Religion is Revenge You will in your Charity and Goodness endeavour so far as lawfully you may the preservation of Gods Servant and your poor Friend Cl. Barksdale Decem. 17. 1653. To Master William Towers Decem. 17. 1653. Dear Sir AS God hath vouchsafed us the honour to appear for some Great Truths in our Religion so it seemeth by the Justices proceeding at Winchcomb we shall have this second honour to suffer for them Te Deum laudamus I have sent them a Letter this morn to put them in mind of the manner of the Romans I hope 't will not seem to them Antichristian not to condemn men unheard I do not find in my self any fear of them Though I cannot say as the good Archbishop Whitgift said He had two things to give him courage against his potent Adversaries Orbitatem Senectutem being in the midst of my Course and being call'd Father by six little motherless children Yet I can say Si Deus nobiscum and take courage enough from the Cause If all the world oppose it Truth is Truth and God is Truth To whose Grace and protection I commend us and all ours Your assured friend and Brother C. B. C. B. to D. W. December 19. 53. SIR It is very true that I told you the first draught of that dispute was the work but of one day while the memory of it was fresh and the carefull observer is no other than the Respondent himself who is not ashamed to own as well the penning as the publishing of it My worthy friend that stood in subsidiis if he hath noted any considerable Defect in it may do well as I requested him to send me his supplement But the setting down an Enthymen for a Syllogism and the omission of little matters on the by I conceive is no very considerable want Indeed there was a passage between him and the opponents concerning the Institution of the Sacrament which because I found not