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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
world_n	call_v	church_n	society_n	1,842	5	9.0865	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A52138	Plain-dealing, or, A full and particular examination of a late treatise, entituled, Humane reason by A.M., a countrey gentleman.	Marvell, Andrew, 1621-1678.	1675 (1675)	Wing M876; ESTC R23029	77,401	164

High-Commission amongst them Was ever man thus confident to assert things thus palpably false which he and every one else must know to be so unless he knows nothing of any History I suppose this was one of those Truths which he smelt out from the bottom viz. That this quiet and happiness which was enjoyed four thousand years amongst the Heathen continued so long and so uninterrupted because every man following the rules of his own judgment allowed that liberty to others which he found so necessary for himself as he saith pag. 9. in fine For the Reason is onely the quite contrary viz. because they were so careful to preserve the Publick Unity of Religion by the execution of their Laws For I think I may justly challenge our Author to shew me if he can any of the ancient Heathens that ever gave a publick toleration of all Religions though if he could prove it Christians ought not to follow their Examples because we have a positive and stated Religion given us by God in a most clear and infallible Revelation which our Governors ought to establish and maintain so that whatsoever he hath said to the contrary it is evident by the consent of the whole World that were there not Laws to restrain particular mens publick discourses there would soon be as many Religions as there are men and so the Argument remains as tragical as ever it did For it appears by the Votes of all Nations that varieties and alterations in Religion were always thought to be inconsistent with the publick peace and safety As for that slie insinuation with which he concludes that Paragraph pag. 10. That even the Stoicks themselves that enslaved the Will durst never attempt this violence to the understanding I would fain know of this Gentleman whether the Church of England goes about to enslave any mans understanding hath not every one in her Communion a liberty of thinking what he pleases All that the Church of England enjoyns us is that we shall worship God decently and orderly and shall consent to the Articles of the Christian Faith and not contradict those few Articles which she hath given us but for peace sake shall quietly submit to them and to her most moderate Discipline I appeal even to this Author himself whether the Members of any Society in the World either Heathen or Christian have a greater freedom of exercising their understandings then those of the Church of England If he cannot produce me any that have then to what purpose doth he talk to English men of violence to their understandings unless it be fortiter calumniari ut aliquid haereret which is a practice so much below a Gentleman that sure our Author should be ashamed of it or else he is a shame to the Honourable Title of an English Gentleman I pray you Sir tell me upon your Reputation what you meant and of whom you spáke those things Pag. 12 13. If you meant the Church of England I must tell you that you do not know any thing of Her though She be your own Mother Doth the Church of England teach her Followers to damn all that are not of their way So far is She from it and so prodigiously charitable that She doth not exempt even those that die in a wilful separation from her unless they be actually excommunicated from Her most Christian Form of Burial in which She professeth to hope of their salvation Is there any Son of the Church of England that believes some Errours that are the inseparable companions of Humane Nature do exclude men from the Communion of the present Church or the hope of the future And as for that which he saith that then we could not be so cruel to persecute those faults to which God is so merciful and from which we our selves are not exempt I answer That our Church punisheth no man for any Errour unless it be accompanied with contumacy and contempt of Authority and does not every Society in the World do the same If then he will needs call this cruelty and Persecution he not onely accuseth our Church but all the Nations of the World of those hard words He might I think well have spared all that Discourse from Pag. 10 to the 14. about the causes of so much bloudshed since the Reformation unless he intended to make the Reformation guilty of all the bloud shed ever since it first-began However sure I am he cannot lay it at the door of our Church since there is none of her true Sons that ever was so mad to be guilty of any of those Causes which he gives of it As for his confident Assertion with which he concludes that Section it is much more applicable to the Papists and Fanaticks then to the truly Reformed For there are no men living that so much tie Infallibility to what they think Truth and Damnation to what they think Errours as they do at Rome and Geneva and such amongst us who have listed themselves under their Banners As for his peaceable Doctrine he so much boasts of Pag. 11 12. viz. That every man should be suffered quietly to enjoy his own Opinion and his own Opinion is this that he should suffer others to do the same As to the first part of it I answer it is granted him For there is no Society in the World that can take notice of matters of meer opinion but when those Opinions break out into practice so as to disturb the publick peace or at least to endanger a disturbance when men make use of them to draw Parties after them and to make Factions in a Nation then those Governours must be blind that will not see to suppress them And this is not punishing men for their Opinions but their Practices in divulging and propagating those Opinions which are contrary to the Laws and publick safety As for the second Part of it that every man should have that Opinion implanted in him to suffer all others to enjoy their Opinions I answer First That it is almost impossible to suppose this to be or that it ever can be the Opinion of every man For if men do sincerely believe that their Opinion is the Truth and necessary to Happiness then they must also think themselves bound to propagate it to all others But Secondly Could we suppose this Opinion to be in every man yet this would not maintain the Peace of a Nation if there were no Laws to restrain men from being led by their Passions and Interest to act contrary to their Opinions For I appeal to themselves to know whether the Papists and Presbyterians do not act contrary to their own Principles in promoting a toleration of all Opinions If they dare deny it it will be easily proved against them For the Grand Turk himself doth not more violently persecute the Christians then both these do all such as differ from them in Religion where they have power enough to do it Witness the Inquisition at this

was true which he can never prove that God would not punish us for our wilful errours yet since the consequence of errours doth naturally lead us into the most damnable sins it therefore behooveth us if we tender our eternal happiness to take care to preserve our selves from errour which may be not only of dangerous but of damnable consequence to us What then is the wisest way for the most of men to guard themselves from these dangers This is a question well worth our consideration if we think we have such souls in us as are endangered by errour to be eternally lost and miserable What then must the common people here amongst us the greatest part of which have scarce reason enough to demonstrate themselves to be men do to secure themselves I answer It is the safest way for them to relie upon the Church especially in all matters of indifferency and of unnecessary disputes and upon some of those Guides which the Church hath lawfully called and authorized in all cases of conscience For since as this Gentleman tells us many nay most of men and the wisest of men have erred though they have had all the advantages to improve their reasons that this world could afford them how should any ordinary man who is void of all helps but his own natural reason dare to rely upon it alone in business of so great concern as his eternal happiness or misery Especially since he doth not think it convenient to rely upon it in business of lesser concern viz. That of his health or estate Now I appeal to all men that in difficult cases do consult their Lawyer and Physician whether they do not think it safer to rely upon their judgements then to be governed only by themselves they must say they do so else they were mad to consult them and give them mony for nothing So that this Author hath the suffrage of all wise men against his opinion when he tells us that upon the account of safety we ought to commit our selves wholly to our own reason in the search of truth Nay I will refer it to himself and challenge him upon his reputation if he hath any left to tell me whether his own practise doth not contradict his opinion that is whether or n● he consults his own reason and commits himself wholly to the guidance of it in cases that concern his life and estate or whether he is guided by the Doctor and the Barrister To this perhaps he will answer that he limits his discourse to the serch of Religious truths in which it is most safe for us to rely upon our own Reason But I pray you Sir why not then in all other can you shew me any cause of difference If you say because Religion is grounded upon probabilities I Answer so is Physick upon much more uncertainty then Religion and the Law is no less built upon uncertainties in many cases which have not been determined by presidents But suppose that religious matters are more intricate and obscure and less certain then other things since errours in Religion are no less dangerous to our Souls then errours in Law and Physick are to our Estates and Lives if we believe we have any souls We ought then to be more carefull to consult our Guides of Conscience then we are to take advice of our Lawyer or Physician But experience and practise is the best teacher Let us now suppose every private person to be wholly committed to the guidance of his own reason according to this Author's Doctrine and let us see what safety he enjoys thereby For then supposing he meets with a cunning Gentleman from Rome that hath been brought up in all advantages of Learning and Education that should baffle his reason for the defence of Protestantism then if he will act rationally he must presently turn Papist and so vice versâ The same thing would also hold if he should be baffled by any Jesuit under the disguise of any other Sectary whatsoever for he must so often change his Religion as he meets with more crafty Disputants than himself By which means he might every hour have a several religion and change so often till at last he had quitted all religion and turn'd Atheist which we see to be the ordinary consequence of frequent changes Nay further suppose he meets with some subtle Jesuit in disguise whose business it is to convert men first to debauchery then to Atheism and so by degrees to Popery who should baffle all his reasons for the practice of vertue nay for the immortality of his Soul and for the being of God as it may well be suppos'd where there is so great a difference in the advantages of the persons What then will become of him if he commits himself only to the guidance of his own reason he must then presently commence Brute and believe that he hath no more soul then his horse or any other beast and that he shall die and perish like one of them nay he must turn Atheist and not only deny the Lord that bought him but that God that made him and so be left altogether without any excuse Is not this person now very safe think you under the guidance of his own reason If therefore it be safe for us to run into Popery Heresie and Atheism let us follow our own Reasons and wholly commit our selves to our own guidance if not Let us follow the Church of England and those guides which she hath set over us in all difficult cases of which we our selves can be no competent judges and when we are press'd with any argument for a change in our religion which we are not able to answer let us repair to our own lawful Minister or to some other that shall direct us for a satisfaction of our doubts and objections And though this may seem a Paradox in this Age of Schism and Faction yet the relying on the Church is the very same direction that St. Paul gives 2 Tim. 3. 15. where he calls the Church of God The pillar and ground of truth For if so then all that are Christians ought to rely upon this pillar and to build their faith upon that which is the ground of truth But I know he there means the Universal Church But you 'l say how should I who am an illiterate person or a private Gentleman and understand not the languages in which the Scriptures and other Church writings are pen'd know what the Doctrine of the Universal Church is for I am not able to search for the Christian Doctrine my self I answer Read the Scriptures in English and practise those things that are plain and easie in them and as for difficult disputes either let them quite alone or else consult in all difficulties the directions of your own Church the Church of England by those guides which she hath set over you But may not these deceive me too as well as my own Reason I Answer It is

so they might enjoy their Estates that would descend to them by Inheritance Now was there not a Conscience and secret dread of Religion that awed the minds of Children from the thoughts of so horrid Villanies it would be too easie for those that live under the same roof and have all opportunities of secresie in their crimes to act any Villany so privately that their interest should lead them to as that they should never without a Miracle be discovered But supposing they should be discovered it is onely death which is the utmost punishment they can fear which according to the Atheists Principles would be no such dreadful matter for it would onely put an end to all those troubles and disquiets they here labour under Now that this would be the consequence that would ensue if mens minds were free from Religious dreads is evident from the practice of debauched persons who have run themselves into Atheism For we see they stick not to hazard their lives daily for the satisfaction of their lusts by the perpetration of any Villanies even Theft and Murder not excepted for hopes of a very small and inconsiderable gain in comparison of that which the death of a Father would afford the next Heir nay we see that amongst wise and sober men the Merchant doth expose his life and estate to the most uncertain of all things even the Winds and the Wave sor the hopes of a far more uncertain gain then this would be to the Heir and the Souldier doth daily bid defiance to Death in the open Field onely for the sake of a poor livelyhood What then could preserve our Houses Towns and Cities from Fire our Lives or our Estates from perjury or our Persons from poyson and poniard ot our Wives from abusing our Beds or our Neighbours from cheating us was all Religion rooted out of the World Would not a Commonwealth of Men be soon worse then a Desert of Beasts Reason enabling men to do more mischief one to another and to act it more privately and effectually then the Brutes We cannot then but see by this time how absolutely necessary Religion is to the good and welfare of all Mankind and all Societies Wherefore those Gentlemen that delight to promote Atheistical Discourses sorry I am to think this Age should afford any such of that quality do expose themselves to be thought Enemies to all Mankind by all wise men and never to be trusted by any but inconsiderate Fools Had they therefore a true sense of their own reputation they would never be guilty of that gross folly to say there is no God or openly to countenance Atheism I hope this Gentleman our Author hath no such Design though by his excusing Atheism before as well as by his words in this place he hath given me too much Reason to suspect it I pray God our Magistrates may take care to revive those Laws that may put a stop to the growth of Atheism amongst us which they are obliged to do even for their own present preservation unless they can think it safe that our Nation should be quite overrun with such a sort of Villains that will stick at nothing though never so hellish a crime when their present interest or the satisfaction of some bruitish lust shall prompt them to it For if these grow numerous they themselves will not be in a much safer condition then the meanest Subject For they that once come to that heighth of madness to contemn their own lives and estates out of Atheistical Principles are Masters of the lives and estates of all other men Secondly To come to something more directly in answer to our grand Politician I must be forced to tell him as he did his extraordinary friend T. H. in plain English rhat it is false that Religion hath been so much as the pretence of all Wars that have been of late years amongst us Was it not a dispute betwixt the Rights and Liberties of the Subject and the prerogatives of the Crown that was the first pretence of the late dismal and unnatural War amongst our selves though it is never to be forgotten that Religion was afterwards drawn in to countenance Rebellion even by some of those very persons that are still Praters in unlawful Conventicles and do as far as they can still continue Leaders of Faction and Sedition Was it Religion or the vindication of our just Rights that was the cause or so much as the pretence of our late Wars against the Dutch Is it Religion or Interest and desire of Dominion that at this present sets the greatest part of Christendome in a Flame and causeth so much effusion of Christian Blood by the French Armies From whence nothing can be clearer then this That it is Interest and Propriety Right and Liberty Power and Dominion that are the Causes and Pretenses of Wars not Religion Shall we therefore acrording to the Reason of our Author 's grand Politicks remove all Power and Dominion and all Right Liberty and Propriety out of the world because if they were removed the people could never thereby be drawn into a civil or forreign War Are not the most necessary the best of things always most ready to be abused and the most destructive when they are so Go thy ways Sir Politick for if thou hast not deserved to be knighted for this Book I believe thou art very much mistaken in thy own modest thoughts of thy self What pity is it thou art not a Privy Councellour Ingrateful age that will not raise him fifty Cubits higher then other men who hath well deserved it certainly it is a great deal of pity that the Gentleman should not be preferr'd according to his Merits Plato in his Phaedo tells us that nothing drives us to fightings wars and feditions but the body and its lusts And does not St. James if happily he may be of any credit or authority with this Gentleman tell us the very same thing James 4. 1. From whence says he come wars and fightings among you come they not hence even of your lusts that war in your Members c. So then all wars brawlings seditions strifes dissentions are raised and promoted not properly and truly for Religions sake which does not cannot authorize or countenance any thing of that nature but for the sake of mony ambition or profit or some such like temporary worldly and carnal consideration and yet I suppose our Sir Pol. loves his body his lusts and his mony a little too well to have them removed out of the world lest they should be the cause of wars and seditions But supposing what he saith was true viz. That Religion was really or at least in pretence the cause of all Wars since I have demonstrated it so absolutely necessary to the peace of all Societies what ought to be done with it ought it to be removed out of the world or rather ought not such care to be taken by establishing the Church of England