want but the contempt of baptisme is damnable In the Church of Thessalie as Socrates writeth they did baptize onely at Easter ob quam causam saith he Lib. 5. cap 20. omnes paucis admodum exceptis absque baptismate moriebantur for which cause all excepting a fewe died without baptisme Would the Church of Thessalie haue done thus if it had thought baptisme simply necessarie vnto saluation If you obiect Augustines authoritie I answer first that he thought the Eucharist necessarie also as I prooued before and if he erred in one why might he not erre in the other secondly the same man saith tunc invisibiliter impletur cum misteriuÌ„ baptismi Lib. 4. cap. 2â— non contemptus religionis sed articulus necessitatis excludit then it is inuisibly fulfilled when the point of necessitie doth exclude baptisme and not contempt of religion S. Augustine therefore did vrge baptisme to be necessarie against the Pelagians who thought it superfluous and not against those that were preuented with ineuitable necessitie The contempt therefore is damnable and not the want of baptisme I might also oppose Vincentius iudgement to that of Augustine if he be of another minde but I let it alone Catharin the Papist assigneth neither heauen nor hell to infants but a third place and so sheweth himselfe a flat Pelagian as I might shew but I referre the reader to August serm 14. de ver Apost lib. 1. de poena mor. cap. 28. To be briefe it is admirable to consider the varietie of popish opinions about this point Bellar. lib. 6. de amiss grat cap. 1. Agree amongst your selues you that teach so seuerally concerning Infants before you come to charge the Protestants doctrine with bare negatiues Next to baptisme we must speake of inherent Iustice which we doe not denie to be in men for this inherent righteousnes is sanctification but we teach this inherent righteousnes to be imperfect and cleaue onely to the righteousnes of Christ whose righteousnes is the very thing that causeth a man to stand righteous before God and to be accepted to life euerlasting This doctrine I maruell you dare once barke against being so holy and so comfortable as it is I will giue you reasons of it In the 3. to the Rom. we are saide to be iustified freely by his grace through the redemption which is in Iesus Christ whome God hath set forth to be a reconciliation through faith in his blood By grace here Bellarmine will haue inherent grace vnderstood because the fauour of God is sufficiently set forth by the word freely as though to fortifie and amplifie a matter one thing may not be vttered in diuers wordes which I might plentifully prooue Secondly saith he the word by cannot be applied to the fauour of God but to the formall cause or meritorious cause or instrumentall cause this is likewise false as I might shew by some examples but let this be graunted that by grace is not meant the fauour of God in this place Paul expoundeth himselfe saying through the redemption which is in Iesus Christ And to retort Bellarmine his reason if by the fauour of God we must vnderstand inherent righteousnes then the Apostle needed not to haue added through faith because faith is a part of inherent righteousnes Hence I thus conclude if we are iustified formally and meritoriously by the redemption which is in Iesus Christ then are we not iustified by inherent iustice but we are iustified formally and meritoriously by the redemption that is in Christ ergo In the same chapter we are said to be iustified without workes some answer works ceremoniall are to be vnderstood this answer Bellarmine refuteth because the Apostle speaketh simply without the workes of the law What works doth Bellarmine vnderstand workes that goe before faith But by his owne reason we must vnderstand all works for the Apostle speaketh simply not restraining his speach to Moses his law or to workes going before faith Againe such workes are excluded as we may boast in but we may boast in the works which follow faith especially seeing they proceede partly of our selues and not onely of grace as the Papists teach Augustine is worthie to be heard speaking against Pelagius vpon the like place of scripture Non ait ex praeteritis operibus De praedest gra cap. 7. sed cum generaliter dixerit non ex operibus ibi praeterita intelligi voluit futura he saith not of workes which are past but seeing he speaketh generally of works he will haue both workes that are past and to come vnderstood So say I to the Papist the Apostle speaketh generally why shouldest thou then restraine his speach to works that are past I let passe the arguments taken out of the 4. chap. which are many and come to the place in the 2. of the Cor. the 5. chap. where Paul writeth that Christ was made sinne for vs that we might be made the righteousnes of God in him As Christ was made a sinner so are we made righteous but Christ was made a sinner by imputation ergo we are made righteous by imputation To this text semblably suteth Augustine Ipse ergo peccatum cap. 41. vt nos iustitia he was made sinne that we might be made iustice not our iustice but Gods iustice neither in vs but in him Againe 3. tract in Ioh. omnes qui per Christum iustificati iusti non in se sed in illo all that are instified in Christ are righteous in him not in themselues Lastly for breuitie sake I thus dispute That righteousnes which must answer Gods iustice must be pure and perfect but ours is impure ergo Augustine saith 19 lib. de civ c. 17. our righteousnesis such that it consisteth rather of remission of sinnes then of perfection of vertues ergo it is not perfect Optatus speaketh thus Onely Christ is perfect lib. 2. caeteri omnes semiperfecti sumus all other of vs are but halfe perfect The testimonies of Fathers are many in this case I conclude with Bernard 61 in Cant. The righteousnes of Christ is not a short cloake which cannot couer two Thus I haue giuen you a few reasons why we cleaue onely to the righteousnes of our blessed Sauiour Christ I desire you M. Doctor as you loue the saluation of your soule that you cleaue onely to it and leaue your stained righteousnes for your conscience tâ—lleth you that your inherent righteousnes is imperfect Quantaelibet fuisse virtutis antiquos praedices iustor non eos salvos fecit nisi fides mediatoris What vertues soeuer you preach that the auncient iust men had nothing saued them but faith in the Mediatour Lib. 1. cont Pelag cap. 21. saith Augustine Except therefore you be better then the righteous men Abraham Noe others onely faith in Christ must bring you to saluation Concerning workes of preparation if by them you vnderstand workes by which God bringeth vs to repentance
established Church bowe much more might it be suffered when as Ecclesia sit constituenda the church is to be constituted Thus hauing defended the calling of protestants let vs see what notes of hereticks and false prophets the scriptures giue Paul in the first of Tim. and 4. chap. giueth these notes of false Prophets to forbidde marriages and to command abstinence from meates Where are these to be found at this day in papists or protestants in protestāts no man will affirme The Manichees did not simply forbid marriage neither condemned they simply meats For Auditores qui appellantur apud Manichaeos carnibus vescuntur si voluerint vxores habent Their hearers did eate flesh and if they would had wiues It remaineth then that these notes be found in Papists Another note of false prophets is to draw men to the seruice of idols Deut. 13.2 Doth this agree any way to Protestants who abandō all monuments of Idolatrie to the Papists it agreeth because they teach that the very wood of the Crosse is to be worshipped with diuine honour Polidor Virgil. lib. 6. cap. 13. speaking of worshipping Saints images saith Haec pars pietatis parum differt ab impietate this pietie differeth little from impietie The third note of false teachers is to despise Dominion as Iude speaketh vers 8. doth not the Pope so who will not be subiect to the Emperour no not to a generall Councell as Witnesseth Eugenius who would not yeeld to the Councel of Basil Yea the papists suborne traytours to murder their lawfull Prince as their own writings prooue The booke I haue named before The fourth note of false Apostles is to teach iustification by the works of the lawe as it is manifest by the Epistle of Paul to the Galat. Doe we so or the papists neither can the papists answer that Paul excludeth the workes of nature onely and not of grace For Paul excludeth not onely the workes of nature but the workes of the ceremoniall and morall lawe as it is plaine For who can imagine that the Galathians beeing instructed in Christ would wholly exclude him from iustification and seeke for iustification either by the works of nature or by the ceremoniall law without Christ Fiftly the false Prophets speake visions of their own hearts Ierem. 23.16 so doe the papists deceiue people with lying visions doctrines of men as I haue proued They teach that the Pope cannot erre that he is aboue Councels where hath the Lord euer taught these things in his word Not to stād vpon any more notes of false Apostles Prophets I desire thee Christian Reader to iudge euen thine owne selfe whether the scripture hath not set downe these notes and whether they can any way agree to the Protestants or no. The 19. reason Lyars slaunderers and reuilers The Protestants are here charged either to haue no conscience at all or els if they haue any it is seared with an hotte iron because they are lyars slaunderers and reuilers Yea they make lying their helpe These M. Doctor are grieuous accusations but before I haue done with you I will turne them vpon your owne head it shall be manifest who are lyars and who haue no conscience whether Papists or Protestants I will first answer your lies which you heape vpon the Protestants The first lie is that Luther saith before his comming the Gospel lay in the dust and was hidden vnder the bench M. Doctor satin sanus es Are you sound to charge all Protestants with Luthers sayings shall one mans speech be the speech of all men apage istas nugas out vpon these follies Luther had this meaning that the Gospel lay in the dust from the time that Antichrist did sit in the temple of God vntil his time and yet it did not so lie in the dust but that many in those times renounced the Pope his speech is comparatiue in regard of the cleere knowledge that now is it lay in the dust Behold now what a lyar Luther is The second lie is this Protestants charge the Papists with Idolatrie yea they inculcate and dull the cares of the people with often telling them of the Idolatrie of their elders And why should we not doe so for proofe of this I will deale syllogistically They which offer sacrifices vnto Images are Idolaters But the papists offer sacrifices vnto Images ergo The proposition is playne because Sacrifice is due onely to God Exod. 22.20 The assumption is testified by Bellarmine lib. 1 de sanct Be◠cap. 13. We offer saith he sweete odours in the Church vnto Images Secondly they which put their hope in wood are Idolaters But the Papists put their hope in wood ergo The assumption is prooued by Aquinas 3. par quaest 15. art who saith that the Church praied to the very wood of the crosse thus O Crosse our only hope create iustice in the Godly giue pardon to the guiltie Thirdly they which dedicate Churches vnto Saints are Idolaters But Papists dedicate Churches to Saints ergo The proposition is plaine out of Augustine lib 1. Read Lud. Vi◠i◠9. lib. de ciuit cap. vlt. cont Maxim Arrian Episc cap. 11. where he prooueth that the holy Ghost is God becaue he hath a temple the assumption is plaine by Erasmus annotations who hath noted in the margent Hoc nunc fit quibuslibet Diuis This is now done to some Saints The Doctor himselfe in his 20. chapter confesseth that parish churches are dedicated vnto Saints When you haue answered these syllogismes M. Doctor you shall haue more proofes of your Idolatrie Bellarmine ingeniously confesseth that pictures of God are not deliuered to the people without daunger except they be instructed of their prelates but the world knoweth that in diuers places of Popery like Priest like People to haue bin and Priests haue bin very Idols themselues The third lie is that some protestants say that the Catholikes hould that Christ satisfied onely for originall sinnes and that hee ordained the Masse for other sinnes which to be a manifest lie all the bookes written of this matter by Catholike diuines doe plainly testifie M. Doctor for triall of this lie these are Canus his words concerning Catharine Amborsij Chatharini deliratio patet peccata ante Baptismum adonissa per crucis sacrificium remitti 433. post baptismum vero per sacrificium altaris The dotage of Ambrose Catharine is manifest that sinnes before baptisme are remitted by the sacrifice of the crosse but sinnes after baptisme by the sacrifice of the alter Marke M. Doctor that your own man Canus chargeth Catharine with dotage in that he held that sinnes onely committed before baptisme were remitted by the sacrifice of the crosse thus the lie is turned vpon your selfe Remember also that your schoolemen teach that Christ came principally to take away originall sin and so doth Bellarmine also lib. 4. de Rom. pont cap. 10. in fine The fourth lie is the protestants assime that the Catholikes
speake Aut verò congregatione synodi opus erat vt aperta pernicies damnaretur quasi nulla haeresis aliquando nisi Synodi congregatione damnata sit cum potius rarissimae inveniantur propter quas damnandas necessitas talis extiterit multoque sint atque incomparabiliter plures quae vbi extiterunt illic improbari damnarique meruerunt atque indè per caeteras terras devitandae innotescere potuerunt Was it necessarie a Councell should be gathered to condemne open mischiefes as if no heresie had beene condemned without a Councell whereas very few are found for the condemning of which there hath bin such necessitie and there are without comparison moe which deserued to be condemned where they did spring vp that being so condeÌ„ned they might be made known vnto other countries Out of this testimonie I gather these two things first that it may be an heresie though not condemned by a Councell secondly I gather that in Augustines time there were few heresies for the condemning of which Councells were gathered together To proceede You say whosoeuer were condemned by Councells confirmed by the See Apostolicall were euer deemed and indeede were heretikes What say you to Cyprian De vnico lap cap. 14. whom as Augustine reporteth Stephanus Bishop of Rome censuit excommunicandum esse deemed to be excommunicated 8. book 4 chap. Bellar. lib. 2. de con cap. 5. Eusebius saith that scripsit vniuersis conterminis gentibus he wrote to all countries that were neare that he would not communicate with them because they did rebaptize heretikes Was Cyprian either an heretike or of that minde that whatsoeuer the Pope did condemne was heresie why did he not then yeild to Stephanus who was Pope For I thinke you meane by the See Apostolike the Pope otherwise you condemne Eugenius who saide as Aeneas Sylvius reporteth that tantum aebest vt generalibus Concilijs debeat obedire vt se dicat tunc maximè mereri cum concilij decreta contemnit It is so farre from him that he should obey generall Councells that he doth then best deserue when he doth contemne the decrees of the same But I reduce your Argument into a syllogisme They which are condemned by the Councell of Trent are heretikes But the Protestants are condeÌ„ned by the Councell of Trent Ergo they are heretikes I denie the proposition for it is against all reason that they which are parties that are partiall that are accused should be the onely iudges Augustine saith Solis Canonicis scriptis debeo sine vlla recusatione consensum I ought to consent onely to the Canonicall scriptures without any refusall De nâ—t grat â— Nicolaus de Clemangijs writeth that Ecclesia quandoque contraria determinat the Church doth sometimes determine contraries in Fas vâ—ta ex Againe Trita regula est ecclesia militans fallit fallitur it is an old rule the Church militant doth deceiue and is deceiued Gregorie his speach who saith that he doth reuerence the foure first Councells as the foure Gospels de alijs suspitionem in animis hominum relinquit leaueth a suspition in the minds of men of other Councels Saith the same man the councell of Neocaesaria condemned second marriages this is not confessed by Bellarmine in his tractate of councells least he should graunt that Councells may erre But in his first booke of marriage and 17. chap. he writeth that Concilium tractat de secundis nuptijs qua contrabuntur mortua priore vxore the Councell doth entreat of second marriages which are made the former wife beeing dead Hence I thus conclude That Councell which condemneth second marriages erreth but this Councell condemneth second marriages ergo And touching your Tridentine conuenticle why doe not your men stand to the decrees of the same Arias Montanus reiecteth the bookes from the bodie of the holy bible which we doe Catharin teacheth that a man may be certen of grace yet these opinions are condemned in your chapter of Trent if we beleeue Bellarmine Againe if your chapter of Trent teacheth rightly of originall sinne why doth the same Catharin teach that it is nothing els but Adams actuall transgression and disobedience Noli esse tam iniustus be not so vnequall M. Doctour to binde vs with your councell of Trent when your owne men dissent from the same Where you say that we shall vtterly vanish away because we haue no head to gather a generall Councell I acknowledge you to be a false and no true prophet We see the fall of Babylon daily more and more and the madnesse of them that seeke to vphold her daily more and more manifest You say also that we receiue fixe Councells â—hem Act. 15. yet your fellows maruell that we attribute much to the foure first and nothing to the rest it were good for you to agree amongst your selues before you charge vs with errour Lastly the libertie of our Gospel is such as Gods word doth teach 1â— epist ego saith Augustine solis eis scripturarum libris I haue learned to giue this reuerence and honour onely to the canonicall Scriptures that no author of them can erre The 10. reason Fathers The Doctour in the beginning of this chap. proijcit ampullos casteth out loftie and arrogant words after this manner The Catholike Romane religion is most plainly taught by all the ancient Fathers of the first second third fourth fift and sixt hundred yeares and hath beene euer without controuersie taught of the fathers of euery age since vntill this day This proud bragge I haue disprooued before by many testimonies and now by Gods helpe I will make it manifest to boyes Theophilus Alexandrinus is plaine against traditions in his 2. paschal sermon he writeth thus Daemoniaci est spiritus instinctus aeliquid extra scripturarum authoritatem putare divinum it is the instinct of a deuillish spirit to thinke any thing diuine without authoritie of scriptures what spirits then haue Papists but deuillish spirits who fight for their trash of traditions Caesarius is as plaine for reading of the Scriptures in his 20. homilie he taketh away the excuse commonly vsed for not reading the same Nemo dicat non mihi vacat legere Let no man say I am not at leisure to read the Scriptures Inanis invtilis est excusatio ista this excuse is vaine and vnprofitable Marke the Eremite hath written a booke against those which thinke to be iustified by works in which booke this notable sentence is extant Regnum coeloruÌ„ non est merces operuÌ„ sed gratia domini fidelibus servis praeparata the kingdome of heauen is not the wages of workes but the grace of God prepared for faithfull seruants In his booke de baptisme of baptisme he teacheth the same Mandata ipsa non tellunt peccatum hoc enim per solam crucem factum est sed donata nobis libertatis limites custodiunt The commandements take not away finne for that is done onely by the
euery lawe doeth not binde Conscience but those which are diuine beeing immutable And this doctrine is taught by your man Gerson as witnesseth Bellarmine There are no men that haue giuen greater obedience to magistrates then Protestāts as the world can testifie The Papists bring the Magistrates into contempt The Emperour must lead the Popes horse Coster glorieth that Pipin king of Fraunce 43. p. doing reuerence to the Pope did lead the Popes horse if Emperours must lead the Popes horse and kisse his toe who bring Magistrates to contempt the Pope or the protestants Henrie the fourth bare-footed fasting from morning to night waited for the Popes sentence three daies If this be not to contemne Magistrates I knowe not what is In the booke of ceremonies the Emperour is appointed wonderfull seruilitie but I leaue this contempt of Magistrates and come to veniall sinnes and concupiscence A man may wonder that we should be charged with vnholy doctrine because we teach euery sinne to deserue damnation The greater the sinne is the more men should abstaine from it therefore on the contrarie the lesser it is the lesse regard is had of it By our doctrine then mē regard sinne more then by the Papists doctrine because we teach no sinne to be small iudge therefore indifferent reader which is most holy doctrine Hierom saith Nescio an leue aliquod peccatum ad Co. I knowe not whether we may tearme any sinne small which is cōmitted against God or no. But the Papists care not to call sinnes veniall and small though committed against an infinite God To enlarge this doctrine a litle their owne men namely Gerson and the bishop of Rochester teach as we teach Bellarmine vseth strōg reasons against this wicked doctrine Bellar. l. 1. de amist gra c. 1. No punishment is so euill as any sinne can be Ergo no sinne is veniall A man must rather be annihilated then he must commit any sinne how then can sinne be veniall of it owne nature Thus your owne schoole resolueth against your doctrine The scripture is plaine Cursed is euery one that continueth not in all things that are written in the booke of the lawe to doe them 3. Gala. If man be accursed for euery sinne then euery sinne deserues death but man is accursed for euery sinne Ergo Augustine writeth excellent well of this point Leuia multa faciunt vnum graue Tract 1. in epist Ioh. multae guttae implent flumen multa grana faciunt massam Many small sinnes make one great and many drops make a flood many cornes make a heape Take head therefore M. Doctor of your small sinnes least admitting them you haue a masse of corruption Theodorus Abucara speaketh as plainely as any Protestant In lib. Pa. Peccati nullus expers est nisi Christus Dominus I am vero omne peccatum vel tantillum mortem infert No man excepting Christ our Lord is without sinne Nowe the least sinne deserueth death Touching concupiscence we teach with the Apostle that it is sinne and by this doctrine men must of necessitie be mooued to striue more against it then if it were no sinne Howe say you M. Doctor wil you not striue more against that thing which is sinne then against that which is no sinne if you will not the greater is your shame and your conscience is the more dissolute Concerning the reward of good and bad life in the world to come we teach it with you but yet we denie the merit of eternall life Opera sunt via regni non causa regnandi saith Bernard Good workes are the way to the kingdome of heauen de lib. arb they are not the cause of it Tota spes mea saith Augustine est in morte Domini mei mors eius meritum meum in anual 22. refugium meum My whole hope is onely in the death of my Lord his death is my merit and refuge And againe Meritum meum miseratio Domini My desert is the Lords mercie Besides these authorities M. Doctor if reasons will satisfie you why we denie merits take these Whosoeuer meriteth must perfectly fulfil the lawe but no mā in this life can perfectly fulfill the lawe ergo no man can merit Secondly where there is merit there is no mercie for gratia non est vllo modo gratia nisi sit omni modo gratuita Grace is not grace except it be euery way free but the reward is of mercie Ergo. Thirdly where there is merit there may be confidence in merits but no man must put his confidence but in God Ergo. To this syllogisme I will annexe Augustines speech Lib. de pec mo◠14 cap. Quisquis ergo ausus fuerit dicere iustifico te consequens est vt dicat etiam crede in me quod nemo sanctorum recte dicere potest Whosoeuer can say I iustifie thee may by consequent say beleeue in me which none of the Saints can rightly say If then we iustifie our selues we may beleeue in our selues which speech all Christians doe abhorre Fourthly where there is merit there the reward is due by iustice to the worke but by iustice it is not due saue onely in respect of Gods promise ergo If you will see the assumption prooued read Aquinas 1. 2. 114. quaest where he saith that Deus est debitor sibi non nobis God is debter to himselfe and not to vs. Read also Bernard de lib. arb and heare Augustine writing thus Debitor factus est he is made a debter by promising Now to produce your owne men as Scotus and diuers others I hold it needlesse yet let the Catechisme of Colon speake Quis tam stupidus est c. Who is so sottish as to thinke our good workes to be worthy of eternall life Thus merits are reiected by reason and by sundrie authorities therefore he slaundereth vs in saying that we giue the people occasion to be negligent in doing of good and little or nothing fearfull to euill Nowe we are come to auricular confession The Catholike Romane religion teacheth confession to a priest of all deadly sinnes which we can remember vnder paine of damnation which restraineth the people from sinne and causeth them particularly to be well instructed and counselled But the Protestant taking that away setteth open a dore to all wickednes and loosenes of life as also to ignorance To answer this latter speech first no man can be ignorant that shutteth not his eyes how we condemne loosenes of life and how we crie for knowledge We desire and beseech the people to read the bible we catechize and instruct them we examine them also before the communion doe we then open a dore to ignorance Some Papists haue said that ignorance is the mother of deuotion and I am sure that knowledge aboundeth now more then euer it did in Poperie As for auricular confession Iuel 27. ait we say it is neither commanded by Christ nor necessarie to saluation The Papists
confirme their opinions and to be reade for proofe of them as I haue shewed Yea they fly to traditions which the heretickes before named might also haue iustified if the Canonicall scriptures had not beene sufficient Tenthly the Manichees vsed but one part of the Communion for they would not haue wine so doe the Papists as it is notorious to all men I might mention many other heresies held by Papists but I haue handled them in another worke therefore I will not recite them here Touching the manners of heretickes if crueltie be a badge of heretickes then are Papists rightly mustered amongest heretickes for they haue most barbarously murdered many men as I will shewe God willing in the next reason The 24. reason Peace and tranquilitie It is a heathen Principle that Legem sibi ipsis indicunt innocentiae continentiae virtutumque omnium qui ab altero rationem vitae reposcunt They which require a reason of another mans life make to themselues a law of innocencie continencie of all vertues To accuse men of tumults when they are themselues tumultuous is intollerable Quis tulerit Gracchos de seditione querentes who can beare it that Gracchus should complaine of sedition that Verres should speake against theft and Milo against murther who could thinke that Papists should speake against warres cruelties and outragious tragedies when they haue spilt exceeding much innocent blood The Spanish inquisitions and French Massacres haue murdered men women and children by thousands Phocas murdered Mauritius the Emperour by whose meanes Boniface the Pope obtained that roome and should be called the head of all Churches as Gotfridus testifieth Here Christian Reader thou maiest see that the Pope cam vp by murder Pope Vrban the fixt bound fiue Cardinalls in a sacke and drowned them in the sea He tooke the kingdome of Sicile from the Queene and gaue it to others Symachus and Laurentius did striue for the Popedome which contention lasted yeares cum effusione sanguinis multorum tam clericorum quà m laicorum With the shedding of many mens blood both of the cleargie laietie Alexander 2. Codulus contended for the Popedome which contention vsque ad homicidia prorupit brake forth into murther as witnesseth Sigebert The histories are full of such examples yet saith the Doctor the Catholike Romane religion began with meekenesse mildenesse and with all quiet and peaceable meanes Whereas the Protestants both haue begun and hold on their course with seditious tumults That you may knowe your peaceable proceedings heare what Wicellensis writeth concerning Hildebrande Miscuit se plurimorum mortibus Christianorum succendent vbique incendia bellorum per totum pene Romanum imperium He thrust himselfe into the deaths of many Christians kindling warres almost throughout the whole Romane Empire Iohn Hus was burned although he had safe conduct promised him Certain men called cruciatores whē they should haue gone against the Turke hauing the Popes indulgences defloured women and murthered men to the number of three score and ten thousand Yea saith Landgius Scribi non potest quanta crudelitate vsi sunt It can not be vttered what crueltie they vsed Concerning the troubles in Germanie my purpose is not to speake of them neither will I meddle with the warres in Fraunce or Scotland Diuers countres haue diuers gouernments the tumults of any subiects against their soueraignes as we doe not allow so we may not condemne the poore afflicted Christians our neighbours before we heare what they can say for themselues I am a scholler not a souldier a diuine not a lawier The circumstances of forraine warres fewe knowe besides themselues as also we know not the lawes of those lands we will not therefore enter those acts which haue so many parts precedents causes concurrents From forraine common warres you come to England and are very busie with king Henrie the 8. king Edward the 6. princes of famous memorie It were best for you M. Doctor to leaue kingdoms and studie diuinitie you are so drownd in pollicie that you forget diuinity yet you can without teares recount summarily the troubles of this land So you may doe in regard of Queene Maries times when not onely Cranmer Archbishop of Canterbury Payne◠Bishop of Winchester Barloe of Bath Tailor of Lincolne with diuers other both Archdeacons and Deacons were put from their liuings and wonderfull store of blood shed these are the times that you should lament Yet it is to be lamented that any should be so obstinate on popery as to die in the same As for Queene Elizabeths gratious gouernment you are not ashamed also to controll it Yet Papists themselues teach that it was both milde and mercifull and had not her Maiestie cause to deale with Papists as shee did when the Pope excommunicated her and stirred vp the Northen rebels her owne subiects to rebell against her Doctor Saunders did thrust himselfe into the Irish warres against her Maiestie If the Pope had so dealt with the king of Spaine as he hath dealt with our late most renowmed Queene would the king of Spaine haue taken it When I weighed and considered these things with my selfe I could not but dislike the Romish religion accompanied with tumults insurrections ruines desolations and with all manner of tragicall miseries and cleaue vnto this religion in England which euer teacheth peace as our writings shewe But it may be M. Doctor your owne men will beare some credit with you Cardinall Poole in his imagined oration to Charles the Emperour calling backe his Maiestie from the Turke to leaue all other affaires and to bend his banners against England and encouraging the subiects of this realme boldly to rebell against their Prince speaketh after this manner English men are a people that oftentimes haue deposed their kings for lighter causes This book as reuered Iuell testifieth was abroad and might be seene wherefore if peace wil preuaile with you call to minde that you haue bin the firebrands fo sedition the trueth is you would force to religion but you would not be forced The 25. reason All kinds of witnesses Euery man knoweth or may knowe M. Doctor that your tonge ouerreacheth when you say we can bring nothing to witnes our religiō but only the scriptures We haue produced the fathers of the primitiue Church to confirme the same but if we haue the scriptures on our side it is sufficient though all men were against vs that Gods word is not contrarie it is most true but that your practises are consonant to the same it is most false as likewise that we will admitte noe expositors of holy scriptures but the scriptures themselues that the scriptures expound themselues in matters necessary to saluation I thinke you will not denie your selfe Master Doctor neither will you alwaies take the fathers expositions Caietan confesseth that the sense of the scriptures is not tied to the Fathers exposition as I can shew but you demaund why Luther confesseth that he could not denie the reall