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A12701 An ansvvere to Master Iohn De Albines, notable discourse against heresies (as his frendes call his booke) compiled by Thomas Spark pastor of Blechley in the county of Buck Sparke, Thomas, 1548-1616.; Albin de Valsergues, Jean d', d. 1566. Marques de la vraye église catholique. English. 1591 (1591) STC 23019; ESTC S117703 494,957 544

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and so in effecte you denie the cause of his comming For to what ende came he but to execute that office that wee are taught in the Scripture his heauenly father appointed him Deny therefore that he hath executed that office and you deny the cause of his comming And you know sublatâ causâ tollitur effectus deny the cause and the effect is denied I knowe you will thinke that I offer you great wrong in charging you thus directly with denying Christ of his office but if you will haue patience a little if I proue it not let me haue the shame thereof You will say for your defence that you confesse and acknowledge him to be the Sauiour and redeemer of the world and you will say you beleeue by him to be saued I doe not deny but you will and doe say all this and more also but what is that to the purpose as long as in your deedes and practise you go from it againe and robbe him of that honour that is due vnto him Iudas saied vnto him Haile master and kissed him when indeede he betraied him and Pilat wrote him Iesus of Nazareth king of the Iewes and yet crucified him But to come nearer vnto you it cannot be denied but that the false Apostles that gaue Paul occasion to write to the Galathians did not deny these things which you giue out in wordes of Christ this onely was their fault that they taught men to ioyne their owne merits atteined vnto by the obseruing of Moses lawe togither with Christ in the office of iustifying thē as it most clearely appeareth throughout that Epistle For hauing of which conceite in their obseruations of Moses lawe and namely in being circūcised for otherwise in the same place he saieth neither circumcision nor vncircumcision auaileth any thing hee telleth them most confidently chap. 5. that Christ should profitte them nothing yea that they were abolished from Christ and fallen from grace Whereupon most euidently it followeth that Paul was of this minde that howsoeuer the lawe was obserued of them that beleeued in Christ it might not be obserued with this minde and to this ende thereby together with Christ to iustifie the obseruer You cannot say that heere Paul speaketh of obseruing the lawe to this ende before they had faith For he speaketh to such as after they had by his ministry attained vnto faith in Christ were now taught by false teachers to ioyne their owne merits in obseruing Moses lawe with Christ in iustifying But yet you say he speaketh in this and in such places onely of the workes of the ceremoniall law which was then abolished wherein you say more then you can proue For he so excludeth workes from this office of iustifying that he oft aduoutcheth that iustification commeth freely as Rom. 3. Ephes 2. and he calleth saluation the free gift of God Rom. 6. and therefore as little commeth it for morall workes sake as for Ceremoniall But though you could proue that he disableth onely Ceremoniall workes yet you could not escape the sentence set downe by the Apostle against such as doe them to the end aforesaied Yes say you for we doe not teach men to obserue them at all much lesse to any such ende What then you haue deuiled a number of Ceremoniall workes of your owne as the obseruing of holy daies and fasting daies going on pilgrimage offring to this shrine that taking of holy water creeping to the Crosse wearing of this thing and that and a thousand such other which you perswade men and women to obserue with as great an opinion to merit therby as euer the false Apostles taught either Galathians Colossians or any other to obserue Moses Ceremonies And you must remember that Paul reasoneth to the Col. cap. 2. that seeing they were in Christ freed from the ceremonies of Moses law which he calleth ther the ordināces of the world much more they ought to take themselues freed from traditions touch not tast not handle not and very reason will tell you that if in Pauls time it were a denying and renouncing of Christ to obserue the Ceremonies that God himselfe had appointed once and which so long by his owne ordinance had beene kept in the Church with that opiniō thereby togither with Christ to be iustified much more is it so to obserue these beggerly Ceremoniall ordinances of yours which yet neuer had any allowance from God but doe flatly contrarie his will in his word I knowe you Iesuites haue taught you yet one shift more and that is this that you haue not any such opinion in your works morall or Ceremoniall nor in any thing els that you doe or vse wherein you haue opinion of merit for their owne dignity or worthines considered in themselues but for that they are tincta sanguine Christi that is aduanced to that force and dignity thorowe the force of the death and passion of Christ Wherein sathan as it seemeth hath beene put to trie the vttermost of his cunning For therein doubtles is conteined though colourably a deepe mistery of iniquity and yet vnder new colours the very same Antichristianitie in robbing Christ of his office that was before For the reason why we charge you with denying Christes office is that wee take it taught in the worde that he is a sole and whole a full and perfect Sauiour in himselfe and by himselfe because it is write●● Math. 22. that in the mariage of the kinges sonne all thinges are prepared alreadie and Act. 4. that his name is the onely name whereby commeth saluation And we finde that you communicate at least some part of this office to mens owne workes and satisfactions and that which is more monstrous to the workes and satisfactions of others and to a number not onely of vaine and friuolous things as to holy water hallowed graines Agnus Dei and such like but also to the doing of some thinges which we know and are most sure of are horrible sinnes before God as to your blasphemous Masse-saying and to the vnnaturall murdering or deposing of lawfull Princes by their owne subiects at your Popes pleasure and commandement And by this newe shift none of this former dealing is recanted or reuoked but onely this is added that these thinges thus communicate with Christ in iustifying and sauing not simplie by their owne vertue force and dignity but by an efficacie that they haue got thorowe Christ Whereupon it must needes follow doth before God and true Christians that you are growen more iniurious to Christ then euer any of your forefathers were For whereas before you your selues alone robbed Christ of his office whiles you taught plainely that these thinges ex condigno ex opere operato that is euen in respect of their owne dignity and by the worke wrought were meritorious to euerlasting life now you continue not onely your former robbing of him your selues but you will make him the principall or at least accessarie to this robbing
of himselfe For now in effect you tell vs that he came and did those thinges which hee did in his owne person not thereby in and by himselfe to beginne and finish our saluation but to merit by his doings and sufferings that these thinges done by vs and others for vs should bee the formall cause of our righteousnesse and so of our iustification and saluation So that now Christ is onely a Sauiour in meriting that these thinges which otherwise should neuer haue had that force and efficacy should haue a power to deserue and procure our saluation Is not this now a trimme office that you haue deuised for Christ that hee should bee a Sauiour onely in procuring habilitie to these thinges to saue What one iote of Scripture haue you for this Nay as the Scripture doeth manifestly take from workes yea euen from the morall and most righteous workes done by the faithfull after regeneration the office of iustifying as it may appeare in that Abrahams workes and Pauls when they were in that state though they were neuer so full of them are disallowed to haue any such effect Rom. 4.2 Phil. 3.8.9 so doeth it teach vs that Christ came not to make other persons or things to haue the office of sauing mens soules but to beginne and go thorowe that worke so himselfe as that no part of that glory shal be cōmunicated to any other person or thing For therein we reade that his owne selfe bare our sinnes in his owne body on the tree that by his stripes wee are healed 1. Pet. 2.24 so perfectly that it is writē Heb. 10.14 we are sanctified by the offring of the body of Iesus Christ once made with one offering hath he cōsecrated for euer thē that are sanctified Whereupon he calleth himselfe Alpha Omega Reuel 1.11 that is the first beginner and last accomplisher of our saluation or as it is saied Hebr. 12. the authour and finisher of our faith Whereas by this newe Iesuiticall diuinity in the matter of iustification and saluation Christ hath but so borne our sinnes in his owne bodie and offered himselfe to death for vs that howsoeuer thereby hee hath begunne to heale and cure vs the ending and finishing it must be by those other thinges and he hath done all this to no purpose vnles his worke begunne be ended by these things following in our selues and others O what intollerable blasphemie is this and into what a bottomles pitte of desperation doe these men the authours of this doctrine wilfully cast themselues For if the case stand so as they say how is it possible for any man at any time euer to haue a faith without wauering which kinde of faith S. Iames determineth to be fruitles Iam. 1. For when can any mā tell that he hath hit of all those things that are left besides Christs merits to accomplish the full merit for his saluation Or how can the soule of man stāding before the iudgement of God without any warrant from God and contrary to all reason perswade it selfe that it shall haue heauen for these things so full of imperfection and vanity if not impiety Further to proue that you deny Christ his owne office and pinne vpon him an office of your owne deuising it appeareth also in this that you will not let him be King Prophet Priest to his Church as the scriptures teach him to bee For neither will you suffer him to gouerne his kingdome according to his owne orders neither to teach his people onely with his own word nor to saue them onely by his own obedience and merits But in all these you crosse him in bringing in a number of fashions lawes and ordinances yea officers and offices into his house that he neuer saied Amen vnto in teaching men rather the traditions and inuentions of men then doctrine onely that hath warrant from his mouth and in setting vp a number of meanes to saluation besides him Now as for vs wee neither with the ancient heretiques nor yet with you hold any heresie concerning either his person or office For concerning the one we holde and beleeue that he is perfect God and perfect man and yet but one person consisting of those two natures and concerning the other that he is such a Sauiour as that he hath begun and finished whatsoeuer was necessary to merite or deserue our full saluation by And therefore when we haue done al the good workes that possibly by his grace we can yet though we know and beleeue that God will both accept of vs of those our good workes for his Christes sake for feare of robbing him of any part of that office that he tooke vpon him we dare not thinke that therby we haue any maner of way merited any part of our saluation That onely we seeke at his hands and through him and his merits alone we looke for it This doctrine in euery point hath warrant from the Scriptures and from all sound antiquity And this and the rest of our whole doctrine tendeth greatly to aduaunce the glory of God both in setting forth the seuerity of his iustice against sin euen to the least sin and the infinitenes of his free mercy in Christ and altogither to throw downe man vnder the burden of his sinnes both original and actual that he may seeke to rise againe not at all by any strength of his owne but onely by the grace of God in Christ Iesus Whereas yours contrarily tendeth to this end to lift vp man in a conceit of himselfe and to abscure both the iustice and the mercy of God As your doctrines of free will mans ability to keepe and ouerkeepe the law of veniall sinnes euen for the littlenes of them and of mans owne iustifying of himselfe may make most euident to them that consider of them And therfore seeing it is writen that God resisteth the proude giueth grace to the humble Iames. 4.6 and that it is his property to send away the rich empty and to fill the hungry with good thinges Luk. 1.53 to iustifie the publican to sende the pharisie home without Luk. 15. a great signe this is yea a good proofe that we rather then you are led by the spirit of God And as for these olde heretiques you are bound to beleeue vs rather then them because our doctrine not onely by the testimony of the Scriptures but also I dare say euen in your owne consciences is sounder both concerning the person and office of the Messias then theirs and thus you are answered both to your first and second question which you put vnto vs in this Chapter But yet you go on and say they alleadged Scriptures as well as we that we denie for they alleadged them corruptly to proue their heresies and would not be drawen to expound one Scripture by another but peeuishly vrged the literall or wrong sence of some hard places against the circumstances both of the same places and that which
hāging in S. Mark● church at Venice sheweth that Pope Alexāder the 3. himselfe treading vpon the necke of the Emperour Fridericke the 1. caused th●se words of the Psalm Thou shalt walke vpō the Adder tread the Cockatrise vnder thy feete which are properly to be vndersto●● of Christ to be proclaimed as verified of that action of his whereby appeareth that the Pope himselfe hath gone as farre as his flatterers That of Paul by him vnderstood of those that follow the directiō of the old mā and are led in their doings by the flesh They that are in the flesh cānot please God Rom. 8. Siricius a Pope also interpreteth of thē that liue in the estate of mariage A Bishop must be the husbād of one wife saieth Paul 1. Tim. 3. that is by their interpretatiō of one benefice and so his house and children that he must well order and gouerne there also spokē of be his parish and parishioners Who so would vouchsafe the reading of your 2. Nicene councell he should there finde store of such interpretatiōs for the maintenāce of images so ridiculously alleadged as euer were any And how is it possible that the Church of Rome holding those principles that she doeth but that you must needes be as violent wresters and rackers of the Scriptures as euer were For both Cusan Epist 2.3.7 Hosius de expresso Dei verbo in his triple Dialogue doe teach that the scriptures must alwaies be interpreted according to the practise of the Church so that how oft soeuer that change the sence of the scripture must change also For still the sence thereof must be fitted to the time and in no case it may be thought to retaine a sence contrary to the practise of the Church And now you are fully come to this whatsoeuer at any time you talke either of Scriptures doctours or councels your Pope for the time being hath full power and authority to interprete all as one hauing authoritie so to doe for his owne sence So that in deede and trueth neither Scriptures doctours nor councels how plaine soeuer their wordes bee to contrarie the doings of your Church shall cary awaie any sence to ouerwharte you at all but will they nill they they shal be caused by your Pope to speake on your side And therefore these thinges considered you are the men and not wee that take the precious ornaments from Epiphanius picture of a king that you speake of in your twenty three Chapter and decke the image of a dogge or of a foxe therewith that is according to your owne application which take the wordes of the Scripture and by wresting of them make them serue to countenance your heresies For heresies wee holde none ●●ither doe wee alleadge the Scriptures but in his true sence 〈◊〉 by these rules before mentioned we are alwaies readie to proue ●nd therefore for all your saying to the contrarie the Scripture as it is alleadged by vs shall proue euen that word of God that shall iudge you and condemne you if you repent not the sence that you force vpon it shall proue but the deuise of man false doctrine yea your whole Religion is but a renuing of olde heresies For with the Ebionits you will not be iustified by faith onely Euseb lib. 3. ca. 24. but also by your owne workes inherēt righteousnes as the Catharists haue taught you Isidor Etymolog lib. 8. cap. de haeresibus Of the Manichees you haue learned your ministring in one kinde Leo serm 4. de Quadragesimâ Marcus that heretique who by his inuocatiōs made his followers beleeue that in the Eucharist he turned the wine into bloud hath beene your first schoolemaster for your doctrine of trāsubstantiation Epip haeres 34. And your multitude of images your worshipping of them the Carpocratians haue taught you as to appeares Iren. lib. 1. cap. 23. 24. when you commit these idolatries you haue learned to excuse your selues to torment your selues and to light candels at noone daies of the ancient idolaters Lactātus lib. 2. cap. 2. lib. 1. cap. 21 6. cap. 2. As the Messalians restrained the force of baptisme to former sinnes witnesse Theodoret diuin decret cap. de baptismo so doe you As Montanus taught of purgatory oblations and praiers for the dead and limbus patrum Tertullian de coronâ militis euen so doe you As the Collyridians sacrificed vnto the Virgin Mary and worshipped her Epiphan haeres 79 so doe you As the Angelists and Caians gaue diuine honour to the Angels Epiphan haeres 38 so doe you As Montanus and the Manichees deuised lawes for superstitious fasting Euseb lib. 5. cap. 16. Aug. de moribus Manicheorum lib. 2. cap. 13 so doe you As the Tatians Encratites and Manichees were iniurious enemies to Matrimony crying out that it was a carnal life therefore forbad it to their elect and to them that would be perfect amongst them August Epist 47 likewise doe you And as the Pelagians denyed that to be sin which ariseth not from reason and wil August contra Iulianum lib. 3. cap. 5 so doe you for the very same reasons deny concupiscence of it selfe without consent thereunto to be sinne as there further it appears they ascribed to the natural powers strenght to doe spirituall things and affirmed that a man is to be saued for and by keeping the law so doe you Of the Valent●nians also you learned to haue in such price as you haue the sign●●f the Crosse and to abuse places of Scripture for it as God forbi● that I should reioice in any thing but in the Crosse of Christ Iren●us lib. 1. cap. 1. Epiphan lib. 1. Tom. 2. haeres 31. Of the Heracleo●nites you learned your extreame vnction and other ceremonies you vse to the dead Epiphan lib. 1. Tom. 3. haeres 36. Of the Macionites Pepusians Aug ad Quod. cap. 27 you learned to giue women leaue to baptise Epiphan haeres 42. Of the Hemerobaptistes and of the Ossenes you learned your holy water holie salte holie oile and holy bread Epiphan lib. 1 Tom. 1. cap. 17. 19. And of the same Ossenes you haue learned also your superstition about reliques and to pray in an vnknowen tongue as Elcai their great Pope taught them Epiphan haeres 19. Thus if a man in reading Augustine Irenaeus and Ephiphanius and others that haue laboured in confuting the ancient heretiques would diligently marke what heresies and fonde things they held and vsed he should by and by by comparing their doings opinions with yours finde that you haue reuiued very many of their rotten and condemned heresies and that you haue learned most of your Ceremonies of them And yet as though you of all men were freest and furthest from all heresie still you crie out he retiques heretiques But it is but policy that you haue learned of some theeues who the better in an hew cry to escape ride crying out of theeues theeues But for all
surest way of declaring the scriptures to expoūd one scripture by another in his 3. booke of Christian doctrine cap. 26. and in those bookes writen of Christian doctrine many moe very profitable Which way Chrys thought so sure a way that he saieth flatly The holy scriptures expound thēselues and suffer not the Reader to erre in his 12. Homil vpon Gen And yet for all this to this triall will not you of the Church of Rome be brought neither for the triall of your interpretations nor yet for determining of this question whither you haue the spirit of trueth or no. Christ and his Apostles were contented to put themselues for triall of their doings to this but your Popes thinke scorne to looke so lowe yea rather they will haue all questions wherein they are principall parties themselues tryed by themselues and you and they crie out that this is not the readiest way to ende such questions But who is so madde as to thinke that you can finde out a better way then Christ and his Apostles vsed You will send vs say some of you for the triall of these matters vnto the doctours and councels and yet when it commeth to the point vnles they and their sayings please you yee reiect them also And you cannot denie but that oftentimes also it is farre more disputable and doubtfull what was their meaning then what is the meaning of the Scripture and you know also that it is an vsuall thing with them to sende vs backe againe to the Scriptures for triall of their writings as it appeareth in Augustines 19. Epist to Hirom and in his 111. Epist to Fortunatian And therefore indeede say you what you will this is the safest surest and readiest way of triall of this and all other matters in question betwixt vs to bring all to the touchstone of the scriptures I would to God therfore that once you would giue ouer al other bie and indirect trials and come onely to this for then it would quickely appeare euen to the simple whither you or wee were rather to be followed For all this we ioyne with you in the later ende of your twenty three Chapter in warning men to take heede that they doe not rashly beleeue follow euery one that will pretend that they haue the scriptures on their side But whereas you write that the heresies which you will after speake of that were condēned by the Catholique church were as well more largely confirmed by scriptures thē we can thereby confirme our Religiō therein first you most vntruely report that of vs as we doubt not but to make it euident vnto the world if you would once come to any indifferent trial with vs secondly I must admonish the reader that these ancient heresies indeed were condemned by the Catholique Church but that that catholique Church was not yours nor as yours now is For the differences be infinite betwixt yours the Church thē by reason whereof there is as great difference betwixt the Church then and yours now in effect as there is betwixt ours now and yours In your recitall of the heretiques abusing the scriptures diuers things slipt from you also worthy the noting namely these that you could not content your selfe with shewing vs how they did abuse the Scriptures in wrong alleaging them but that as though your fingers itched to shew that you had as good skill therein as they you still intermingle with theirs your owne cunning in shewing how other places might be abused in like maner neither confuting in the ende their collections nor your owne how dangerous soeuer Another tricke you haue in noting the trueths impugned by them and the maner how they went to worke though neuer so vntruly yet cōfidently to set downe that the things which we impugne in you were holden by the Church in equall degree of trueth and reuerence with them that they set themselues then against and that they cried out against traditions of men and cried onely for the writen word as we doe wheras in trueth few or none of the things we condemne in you were hatched then and the contrary before hath appeared out of Irenaeus lib. 3. cap. 2. that it was their fashion to flie from the Scriptures and to accuse them as you doe and to vrge traditions that they also vsed to vrge other such like grounds for their heresies as you doe as I haue shewed cap. 3. The last is that for the most part you charge them with what you list not shewing vs where you read or finde ground for these things wherewith you charge them belike least in turning to the places examining you proofes we should to your discredit haue occasion thereby to discry in you either some malice errour ignorance or some negligence at the least For example how proue you that which you write cap. 22. that the Arrians alleadged as many or more places then the Catholicks Or that the same Church that condemned the Adamits hath condemned vs Hus and his schollers condemning them But to passe on from these things to your conclusion vpon these premisses and to that which you infer thereupon in your 26 Chapter I graunt you by that which you haue writen in the former chapters it may be seene that one ill disposed maie soone alleage scripture in a corrupt sence but what is this to proue that which you vndertooke cap. 22. that is that the holie scriptures which we alleage do not iustifie our doings If you would haue proued this indeed you should haue proued that we alleage the scriptures in a wrong sence as these did that you haue talkt on but that was to heauie a peece of worke for you therfore you thought good not once to meddle with it But yet as though either you had proued it or else that it could not but wtout proofe be graūted you you boldly affirme as these hereticks that you haue talkt of haue perished their heresies so shall we our followers if we repent not Wherunto I answere first that so repentance maie be takē that it is most true that not onely we our followers but you yours also al men else must repent or else we al you and al other shal perish but taking it as you doe for repēting of our religiō of alleaging of the scriptures which we doe for the maintenāce of it against you you haue saied nothing at al as yet to make vs once to thinke that we haue any need at al so or therof to repēt Secōdly I saie that in thus saying you haue shewed your malice boldnes more then any thing else for you haue therin vttered nothing but a blind prophets dreāe and fansie which no man of any wisedome or discretion wil make any reckoning of It is wel yet that the euidēce of the trueth hath enforced you here to confesse that it maie be seene in al the ancient ecclesiastical writers that the doctours fully