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A41015 Roma ruens Romes ruine : being a svccinct answer to a popish challenge concerning the antiquity, unity, universality, succession, and perpetuall visibility of the true church even in the most obscure times, when it seemed to be totally eclipsed in the immediate ages before Luther / by Daniel Featley ... Featley, Daniel, 1582-1645. 1644 (1644) Wing F592; ESTC R4369 68,281 80

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jurisdiction over all bishops not excluding them from being bishops but making them subject and subordinate to their head or as it may import that this universall bishop should be the only bishop in the world ita ut caeteri non sint episcopi sed vicarii tantum illius that is so that all other who hold the name of bishops should indeed be no bishops but only his vicars This answer no way heals the wounds and gashes made by S. Gregories sharp stile in inveighing against the title of universall bishop for neither did Iohn of Constantinople at whom S. Gregory strikes in these epistles desire to be the only bishop of the world nor doth the word universall import any such thing Neither did Lucifer to whom this Gregory compares this Iohn of Ierusalem affect to be the only angel but as S. Gregory speaketh spretis in sociali gaudio angelorum legionibus ad culmen co●… est singularitatis erumpere Despising the rank of his fellow a●gells h● endeavoured to aspire to the top of singularity and this is that which S. Gregory chargeth this Iohn withall that he affected ●●ulli S●b●sse omnibus praeesse to be under none but above all That he went about cuncta Christi membra sibi universalis appellatione supp●●●re That is by the title of universall to bring all Christ● members in subjection unto him From which passages of S. Gregory I frame this argument he who usurps the title of universall bishop in such sort that he labours to be under none but above all is a sore-runrer of anti-christ an imitator of Lucifer in the singularity of his pride but the bishop of Rome affects to be under none but above all ergo by S. Gregories logick he is a fore-runner of anti-christ 2. For justification by inherent righteousnesse and the perfection thereof S. Gregory renounceth it as we do nay he goes farther then we in vilifying humane righteousnesse we say no more but that our best works are not free from some stain of sin he says in expresse terms that if they be examined according to the rigour of justice they are sins Upon the ninth of Iob thus he commenteth ut saepe diximus omnis humana justitia injustitia esse convincitur si districte judicetur that is all righteousnesse of man as we have often said is convinced to be unrighteousnesse if it be strictly judged as in the same book sanctus autē vir qui omne virtutis nostrae meritū esse vitium conspicit si ab interno arbitro districte judicetur recte subjungit si voluerit contendere cum eo non poterit ei respondere unum pro mille that is the holy man because he sees all the merit of our vertue to be vice if it be strictly scanned by the inward searcher of hearts and reins therefore he well adds ●f he will contend with him he cannot answer one for a thousand And the 18 chap. Si enim remota piet at● discutimur opus nostrū poena dignum est quod remunerari praemiis praestolamur If we are examined without mercy our work for which we look for a reward will prove to be worthy of punishment and chap. 19. sed tamen sciendum est quia mundos nos ad perfectum reddere vel vita vel lachrymae non valent quousque nos mortalitas nostrae corruptionis tenet that is we must know that neither our life nor our tears can make us perfectly clean as long as we continue in this frailty of corruption With what face can you affirm that the church of Rome holdeth still the tenets which it did in S. Gregories time Your tenet now is that you c●… fulfill the law of God in this life that by good works you can merit heaven and more that you may trust to your inherent righteousnesse and that you are justified by it which if you can reconcile with S. Gregories assertions above related I doubt not but you may in good time reconcile all christendom 3. For perseverance of saints in grace S. Gregory is as firm as any of the reformed protestant writers in his 34 book upon Iob he propounds a kind of objection how it should come to passe that Leviathan hath such power to trample gold that is saith he men shining with the brightnesse of sanctifie 〈◊〉 if it were dirt by defiling them with vice sed citius respondemus quia ●urum quod pravis diab●li persua f●on●bus sterni sicut lutum potuerit aurum ●…te oculos Dei ●unquam fuit qui seduci quandoque non reversuri possunt quasi habitum sanctitatis ante oculos hominum vide●●tur amittere sed eam ante oculos Dei nunquam habuerunt that is but we speedily ans●er that that gold which by the wicked perswasion of the devill may be cast down as dirt was never gold in Gods eye c. 4. For private ma●●es without communicants wherein the priest rehearseth the words of Christ take eat and drink yee all of this yet eateth and drinketh all himself and celebrateth a strange kind of supper without any guest at all I say in S. Gregories time this corruption had not crept into the church as appeareth by those words cum que in eadem ecclesia missarum solennia celebrarentur atque ex more diacon●s clamaret si quis non communicat de● locum and when in the same church the solemnity of the masses were celebrated and the deacon cryed out after the custom 〈◊〉 if any man communicate not let him depart or give place If you here snatch at the word masses I answer that the masses S. Gregory and the fathers before him spake of were nothing but our communion and the service thereunto belonging so called either a ●…ttendis muneribus for the offerings that were then made or a di●●ttendis catech●…enis sending away such as were not thought fit to be admitted to the holy sacrament of which we shall have further occasion to speak in answer to your promised reply 5. For the princes authority over ecclesiasticall persons S. Gregory acknowledgeth not only ordinary priests and bishops but even the bish of Rome also himself to be subject to the emperor sacerdotes meos tuae ma●●● comisi I have committed my priests into thy hands And afterwards in his own person ego indignus famulus vester I your unworthy servant Ego quidem in●imus subjectus eandem legem per diversas terrarum partes transmitti seci quia lex ipsa omnipotenti Deo minime concorder ecce per suggestionis me● pag●●am ferenissimo Dommino ●unciavi utrobique ergo quae debut exolvi qui et imperatori obedientiam praebui pro Deo quod sensi m●n●●e ●●●ui that is I your lowest subject have published your command And here you tray see in what terms the empire and papacy stood when the Pope held it his duty to publish a decree of
the emperour though it were against his heart and conscience 6. For the canon of scriptures S. Gregory holds the book of Maccabees in the same rank as we do profitable to he read for the edification of the church but not to be produced as inspired by God and of infallible authority for the confirmation of any poynt of faith for being to alledge a testimony out of those books he makes way for it by this preface de qua re non inordinatè agimus si ex libris licet non canonicis sed tamen ad adificationem ecclesia editis testimonium proferamus touching which matter we do not amisse if we bring forth a testimony out of those books viz. the book of Maccabees there cited which though they are not canonicall yet they are set forth for the edification and instruction of the church 7. For adoration of images he detests it as much as we see his epistles upon record si quis imaginem facere voluerit minimè prohibe adorare vero imagines omnibus modis devita If any man will make an image forbid him not but by all means avoyd the worshipping of images Who will now be a papist when we see the Pope is become a zealous Calvinist 8. Touching merit of works S. Gregory teacheth as we do that we ought not to repose any confidence in our own merits non in fletibus non in actis nostris sed in advocati nostri allegatione confidamus let us not trust in our own weeping and bewayling of our sins nor in our own acts but in the intercession of our advocate and upon Iob si ad virtutis opus excrevero ad vitam non ex meritis sed ex venia convalesco If I grow to any work of vertue I am restored to life not by merits but by pardon I forbear to alledgemore testimonies out of S. Gregory touching this poynt because those many clear passages which I have produced out of him before against the perfection of inherent righteousnesse by a necessary consequence overthrow all merit of works also 9. Touching certainty of salvation S. Gregory conspireth with the doctrin of the reformed church for having alledged certain promises of Christ in the gospel to found it upon thus he concludes hac it aque fulti certitudine de redemptoris nostri misericordia nihil ambigere sed spe debemus indubit at a praesumere non enim muneris sui largitate frustrabitur Deus sed vires obtinendi prorsus indulget qui velle concessit nam jam ipsum desiderant oppetere donum est that is therefore being supported with this certainty we ought not to doubt c. Gregories doctrin like ours at this day is a doctrin of faith and confidence whereas the doctrin of the church of Rome at this day is a doctrin of distr●… of diffidence 10. Touching the power of calling synods or ecclesiasticall assemblies which you now arrogate to the Pope in S. Gregory his time as a●●ay before it was in the emperours and christian princes agreeable to the t●●et of the present church of England S. Gregory taketh notice of the emperour his masters command for the assembling of a synod in Rome it self juxta Christianissimi serenissi●i rerum domini jussionem ad beati Petri apostoli limina cum tuis sequacibus venire to volumus ut Authore Deo aggregata synodo de eaqua inter not vertitur dub●etate quod justum fuerit judicetur According to the command of our most christian and ●ra●ions Lord we require thee to appear at S. Peters c. 11. Touching the definition of the church you scoff at us for ●efining the true and most proper church of Christ which we beleeve in the creed to be the whole number of Gods elect You term it an Idea Platonica or an aēreall and invisible body a Chymaera or Phantasme and yet S. Gregory describes the church as we do Christus secundum praescientiae suae gratiam sanctam ecclesiam de sanctis in aeternum permansuris extruxit Christ according to the grace of his fore-knowledge hath built on holy church of saints eternally persevering in grace and upon Ezck una ecclesia est electorum praecedentium atque sequentium There is one church of the elect going before and following after 12. Touching the blessed sacrament of the Lords Supper to be administred in both kinds it is evident that in * S. Gregories time the whole congregation consisting of the laity as well as the clergie participated of the holy cup his words are pretiost sanguinis effusione genus humanum Chris●us redemit sacro-sancti vivifici corporis sui sanguinis mysterium membris suis tribuit cujus perceptione corpus suum quod est ecclesia pascitur potatur abluitur sanctificatur Christ by the effusion of his most precious blood redeemed all mankind and giveth to his members the mystory of his most holy quickning body and blood by the participation whereof his body which is the church is nourished with meat and drink and is washed and sanctified Mark I beseech you that S. Gregory●ith not lib. 4. Dial. cap. 58. he giveth to his members in the participation of the sacrament his body and blood for meat and drink but the mystery of his body and blood as elsewhere he speaketh in Evang. Hom. 14. Realiter passus Christus i●cruce in mysterio patitur quoties ecclesia mil●●ns sacr●● 〈◊〉 celebrat hoc facit in servatoris sui com●●morationem Christ having suffered really upon the crosse suffereth in a mystery as 〈◊〉 as the church celebrateth his holy supper and this she doth in remembrance of her Saviour By comparing of which places any man may perceive what S. Gregory meaneth by a mystery when he opposeth it to that which was done really I leave it to you to make the inference And now to poynt these weapons drawn out of S. Gregories armory and rub them over with the oyl of your eloquence the saith of S. Gregory was never noted to differ from the common received faith of christendom in those days as appeareth by the severall epistles of the said S. Gregory to the bishops of Europe Asia and Africa with all whom he had communion of faith so as if Christ had a catholike church on earth as needs he must S. Gregory was of it and being then a true church 〈◊〉 say holding still the same tenots it must needs be so now Gods truth being like unto him without change and therefore if an angel should c●me from heaven to teach us any other doctrin then that which we have received from S. Gregory we are not to hear him If an angell therefore from heaven teach that the books of Maccabees are canonicall or that the Pope or any other bishop may have the stile of oecumenicall bishop or supream head over all bishops or that our best works are not imperfect or defective
if God strictly examin them or that true holinesse and sanctifying grace may be lost or that masses may be celebrated without communicants or that princes have not authority over ecclesiasticall persons or that images are to be adored or that men may merit by their works eternall life or that a child of God ought to doubt of Gods mercy and may not be assured of his salvation or that it belongeth not to princes to call ecclesiasticall assemblies or that the church in the most strict sense consisteth not of the elect only or that the whole church consisting of laity as well as clergy may not participate the mysteries of the body and blood of Christ entirely drinking of the holy cup as well as eating of the bread Let him be accursed Methinks I hear you already cry out with her in the Poet Heu patior telis vulnera facta me●s O● with the eagle in Iulians m●tto feeling her self deadly wounded with an arrow feathered out of her own wing Nostris configimur alis PARAG. XIX Concerning the faith of Constantine CHALLENGE Or lastly if you desire to go neerer to the times of the apostles we will joyn with you to prove our faith in the days of Constantine the great who first built and opened christian churches and gave freedom for christians to come together and to know and publish to the world what was held by them which before could not so well be done by reason of the perfec●tions in which the church had been 〈◊〉 then generally eclipsed Answer From S. Gregory you step up immediately to Constantine the great and at once stride over 300 years in which time the prime and flower of the Greek and Latin fathers lived and dyed would none of them father your Church You take an oath if you be magistri in theologia to expound scripture non ●isi juxta una●… c●●sensum patrum according to the unanimous consent of the fathers this joynt consent can very hardly be found in the interpretation of the ●…ures before Constanti●●s time because few before that time commented upon the holy scripture at least whose works are come to our hands and therefore you should have especially instanced in the fathers from Constantines time to S. Grego●●s but as Festus answered Paul so think I fit to answer you Ca●…em appell●…●d C●sarem ibis you have appealed to Constantine and to Constantine you shall go of whom I may say truely that which the Fre 〈…〉 sometimes spake before him glo●ingly tu no 〈…〉 ill●● 〈◊〉 faci●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Britains by ●●y 〈◊〉 for though Li●… he●… not Iustus goeth about to rob us of this brouch and brightest lustre of our nation denying us the honour of his birth as you do of his faith yet I doubt not but to make good against him and you that Constantine is ours body and soul and to resolve you in point of his birth and native soyle which was this our Iland I refer you to Baronius for his faith to Eusebius Socrates Sozomen Arnobius Lactantius Minutius Foelix Athanasius Epiphanius and Greg. Nazianzen and divers others who lived in the same time or not long after him Let the faith generally beleeved and received in the age wherein this blessed Emperour lived serve as a touchstone to examine our pure and precious and your drossie and counterfeit faith and first let us begin with the ground of all faith the holy scriptures 1. We teach that the canon of the old testament consisteth of 22. books only excluding the apocryphall which your councell of Trent confoundeth with the canonicall Let the first quaere then be whether did the church in Constantines time hold with your canon or ours To this let the councell of Laodicea speak qua autem oporteat legi in authoritatem recipi haec sunt Genesis Exodus c. These books which ought to be read and received as authenticall and canonicall are these following Gen. Exod c. In which catalogue none of the apocryphall books are mentioned Let Athanasius inform us who reckons but 22. books of the old testament as we do and after him Greg. Nazian. most expresly brandeth the apocrypha with a note of bastardy {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Which Greek verses a wel-willer to your church hath translated into Latin At tua ne libris fallatur mens alienis Hunc habeas certum numerum a me lector ●●ice Tot nempe Hebr●● quot sunt elementa loquelae Quicquid pratorea est hand inter certa loc andu● The Greek word for word is thus to be Englished I have s●● down 22. books of the old testament agreeable to the number of the Hebrew letters ●●d 〈◊〉 ●e found any besides these ●… to be counted among the true and genuine books of the old Testament 2. We with Tertullian adore the ple●●tude of scriptures a●●ibing to them this perfection that they contain in them all things necessary to salvation You maintain on the contrary that the written word alone is not a sufficient and perfect rule and therefore you add unto it the unwritten word which you call crad●ion Which part did Constantine take and the church in his time let Athanasius be heard in this case Sufficiunt per se sacroe divin● us inspiratae lu●rae ad veritatis indicationem The holy inspired scriptures are sufficient of themselvs for the declaration of the truth let ●a●tanti●● be heard Cyprian was so ravished with the excellent knowledge of the holy scriptures that he was content with them alone upon which faith is built Let us hear Constantine himself who sitting in a golden chair as president and moderator in the first and most famous councell of Nice recommendeth the books of the old and new testament to the fathers assembled in that councell in these words the books of the evangelists and apostles and the oracles of the ancient prophets do plainly instruct us what to conceive of divine matters therefore setting aside all enmity and discord let us from the words inspired by God take the resolution of those things that are in question which most christian direction of this most noble Emperour swayed much with the fathers in that synod yet cardinall Bellarmin makes light of it and gives the Emperour a slurr for it lib. 4. de verbe Dei non scripto cap. 11. Respondeo hoc testimonium non esse tanti faciendum erat enim Constantinus magnus Imperator non magnus ecclesiae Doctor I answer that this testimony is not of so great moment for Constantine was indeed a great Emperour but not a great Doctor of the church 3. We teach that the wood of Christs crosse is not to be worshipped at all much lesse with divine worship you teach on the contrary that the crosse of Christ is to be adored cultu latria that is with the highest kind of