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A41319 An answer to Mr. Thomas Grantham's book, called, A dialogue between the Baptist and the Presbyterian by Martin Finch. Finch, Martin, 1628?-1698. 1691 (1691) Wing F942; ESTC R7436 100,803 186

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another Sir Recollect your self I cannot remember that ever I saw your face more than three times in my Life before I saw you lately in Norwich The first time I saw you was upon the Road on Horseback I met a Friend upon the High-way that you were travelling with I saluted him and he told me your name and so after a few words you went your way and I mine The second time was about fifteen years since going to see a Neighbour that lay Bed-rid he was one of your way but I think a Godly Man and I visited him several times in Love you was there and we had two Hours Discourse and all about Controversies The third time was about eight Years since you came into a Friends House where I was upon a Journey and stayed about an hour This was all our acquaintance and as for our being Neighbours it is true that in some sence all are our Neighbors but I suppose you and I liv'd twenty Miles Distant though I am not certain where you lived for as you never were at mine House in Lincolnshire so I never was at yours What a poor business is it that the World should be troubled about our Acquaintance and Neighbourhood Sir though you and I differ in several points of Religion yet I love all Men and though I do not desire intimacy with any Man that is of a Contentious Spirit I love Peace and Quietness yet if you please to let me know when you are in any want you shall find that not only my self will relieve you but that I shall get others of my Friends to Minister unto you otherwise I do not desire Acquaintance with you whilst you are so violent and abusive Then you say that some of my Jacobs have called you Rogue and wisht that you were put out of the Town I am sorry that you should use such passionate Speeches as to call any persons my Jacobs and as to calling you Rogue I hope none of the Congregation that I belong to ever used such unseemly words of you for my part I have always spoke of you in Company with good Respect till you put forth the Book I love to speak the best I can of every Man Q. 4. You tell me that in pag. 19. God chose us so many and no more I pray who are those us whom you call us surely you speak of the Living I answer Let the Reader hear with Patience what is said Pag. 19. the words are these This is especially applied to the Father in Scripture to choose us before the Foundation of the World to foreknow us to predestinate us to be conformable to the Image of his Son therefore in that Scripture 1 Pet. 1.2 where you have the proper and distinct Work of Father Son and Holy Ghost about the Vessels of Mercy the Apostle saith We are Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father through Sanctification of the Spirit unto Obedience and sprinkling of the Blood of Jesus Christ observe here our Election is ascribed to God the Father he chose us so many and no more this Man and not the other Jacob and not Esau then you have the proper work of the Son in those words the sprinkling of the Blood of Jesus Christ it is he who washeth us from our Sins in his own Blood he purchaseth all good things the second Person in the Trinity He is the Lord our Righteousness he is the Propitiation for our Sins he is our Mediator it is not the Father that is Mediator nor the Holy Ghost but the Son it is he that took upon him our Nature it was the Word that was made Flesh not the Father nor the Holy Ghost it was the Son that died upon the Cross for our Sins not the Father nor the Holy Ghost then you have the special Work of the Holy Ghost about our Sanctification in these words through Sanctification of the Spirit unto Obedience It is the Holy Ghost who in our Conversion doth Sanctifie us and bring us to the Obedience of Faith he applieth Redemption as the Son hath wrought Redemption when the appointed time when the fulness of time is come to call home an Elect Vessel he convinceth the Soul of Sin he revealeth Christ to the Soul he infuseth the Habit of Grace and after Conversion is with us to mortifie our Corruptions comfort us and lead us and to carry us to the Heavenly Kingdom Now What Cause had this Author to say Who are these Vs Surely you speak of the Living I answer I speak as the Scripture speaks in those Texts that I have mentioned of all the Elect of all the Redeemed of all that are or shall be sanctified and how strange and captious is it for this Author to go on and say You have good Thoughts of your self for you must be one of the Vs And shew me how many and no more or at least name One to make good the Word Vs and prove by the Word of God that You Two were undoubtedly chosen to Salvation Surely this Author was not in frame when he wrote thus this is just like a Woman scolding and quarrelling in the Streets I am heartily sorry for him Qu. 5. and 6. Are both about the same thing about Jacob and Esau Now concerning Jacob and Esau note 1. That Esau was not saved appears by Heb. 12.15 Lest there be any Fornicator or profane Person as Esau who for one Morsel of Meat sold his Birth-right This Observation may give much Light into this Matter that when any that were real Saints under the Old Testament are spoken of in the New Testament all their sinful Failings are covered and their Grace only mentioned So it is with Abraham Sarah Job Sampson Lot though they had many sinful Failings yet I say they are covered in the New Testament and their Faith Patience and Holiness only mentioned Or if there be an hint of their sinful Failings as of Rahab and Elijah there is mention also of their Faith and Prayer and the Grace of God bestowed upon them But when Esau comes to be mentioned in the New Testament the Holy Ghost leaves him upon Record that he was a profane Person 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 one that despised set light by and contemned holy things So that let it be observed that Esau after he had been so long dead is in the New Testament where the sinful Failings of the Saints of the Old Testament are covered is left under this black Character that he was a profane Person 2. As to what is said Rom. 9.13 As it is written Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated let it be observed that the Apostle in that Chapter from the Beginning to the End is not treating about outward things but about spiritual things and to shew them that amongst them that enjoy Church State and Church-Privileges and Ordinances some are from Eternity elected to Salvation of God's mere Grace and others are passed by And the Apostle
effectually for all those for whom he dyed that he will certainly and infallibly bring them to Grace and Glory have no cause to be ashamed of their Doctrine Those that maintain that no man can come to Christ except the Father draw him and that with such a drawing as that they shall freely and yet most certainly and infallibly come to Christ and be eternally saved have truth on their side And all the Sophistry Cavils and Evasions of Arminians are as nothing to overthrow this Doctrine Whosoever shall observe the Book that I answer will find that this Author doth scarce attempt to argue and prove any thing except it be in a very few places but only raises outcries against others Therefore what I have written is only occasioned by this Author to clear up these points rather than to answer any Arguments he hath produced for his opinions but that little Argument he hath used I have taken into consideration If any Reader thinks that I have now and then used too much sharpness against this Author he may be pleased to take notice that those that know me can testifie that I have a greater Latitude as to any rigid judging of men as to their Eternal Estates because they hold many erroneous opinions than some others have Those that are truly built upon Christ upon his Merits and Righteousness as their Foundation though they may in their Superstructure have much Hay and Stubble yet God will graciously pardon them in Christ But when this Author tramples not only upon the Assembly of Divines but upon Calvin Zuinglius Beza and many other Divines of the Reformed Churches and extolls Michael Servetus one of the greatest Blasphemers of the Sacred Trinity that ever was in the World It may be some Readers will think I have not been sharp enough against such a confident Boysterous person There is printed with this Authours a Book of Mr. Haggars I never heard of the person or of his Book before though it seems it hath been printed five times It may be it hath been answered or none have thought it worth the answering The Book is almost nothing but Errours and Mistakes I do not remember that ever I read a Book more confused or where the Author sheweth himself more ignorant of the true meaning of the Scriptures he makes use of except it were in some Books of the Quakers The Apostle Paul saith Ephes 1.3 4 5. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who hath blessed us with all Spiritual Blessings in heavenly places in Christ according as he hath chosen us in him before the Foundation of the World was laid The Apostle there sheweth 1. That there are Spiritual Blessings bestowed upon some These Spiritual Blessings are effectual Calling Justification Adoption Perseverance in Grace and the Heavenly inheritance 2. He shews that all these Spiritual Blessings are conferred upon us through the Lord Jesus Christ the Mediator as the Meritorious cause God purposed to do all for the Heirs of Salvation in and through him 3. He shews the Eternal Designation of the persons that shall in due time partake of these Spiritual Blessings he saith they were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the World 4. He shews that they were not chosen upon any foresight of their Holiness by improving those common helps they had equal with others but that God chose them that they might be Holy that is he would in due time give them Faith and Holiness And this is yet more evident from v. 5. having predestinated that is fore-ordained us to the Adoption of Children by Jesus Christ according to the good pleasure of his Will So that it is most manifest that those whom God chose he chose them so as that he would himself make them holy and that the moving cause was not any worthiness or towardliness in them which God foresaw But the Apostle saith it was the good pleasure of Gods will his especial undeserved free Love and good will to their persons that was the moving cause of their Election Now let the Reader observe what this Author saith to this Scripture Though God calleth men elect from the Foundation of the World yet they are not elect until the very day of their Conversion and turning from Sin to God for God calleth things that are not as if they were From whence it is evident they were not elected though so called page 2. What a strange passage is this As much as to say though the Scripture saith it was so yet it was not so well but saith this Author it is said of Abraham Rom. 4.17 As it is written I have made thee a Father of many Nations before him whom he believed even God who quickens the dead and calleth things that are not as if they were Now saith this Author Abraham was not yet a Father of many Nations but it was so before God who calleth things that are not as if they were For the understanding of this Scripture 1. Observe that though it was but at that time spoken of and declared to Abraham Gen. 17.4 5. that he should be a Father of many Nations yet God hath made and appointed him so to be from Eternity Tho' Gods Decrees and Intentions what he will do are manifested to men in time yet they are all from Eternity 2. Observe that when God did declare to Abraham his Eternal Counsel that he should be a Father of many Nations Abrahams Body was dead as to Masculine Vigour But the Apostle shews that nothing can hinder Gods Purposes and Decrees for God quickneth the Dead dead Souls and dead Bodies when he pleases and calleth things that are not as if they were that is calleth for what he pleaseth and it is done As in the Creation God did but say Let there be Light and there was Light The Apostle is shewing Gods Omnipotency That God having appointed Abraham to be a Father of many Nations nothing can hinder his eternal purpose for saith the Apostle he quickens the dead and calleth things that are not as if they were Ut majorem ejus rei facilitatem in deo declaret to shew the great facility of this Work to God to whom it is as easy to make any thing to be as it is for us to call for a thing and easier too as one Expositor notes well upon the place So that this Author quite mistakes the meaning of the place for God did not tell Abraham that he was a Father of many Nations when he was not But God told him that he had made him that is appointed him so to be which should be performed in the appointed Time and Season by his Omnipotency against all natural impossibilities because he is the Almighty God that quickneth the dead and calleth things that are not as if they were When he calleth for any thing to be done to be effected according to his purpose it exists the same moment The Context in Rom. 4. with other
the Elect notwithstanding they are not justified till the Holy Spirit doth in due time actually apply Christ to them I answer that when the Assembly of Divines say that God did from all Eternity Decree to justifie the Elect yet they are not justified till the Holy Spirit doth actually apply Christ You seem to have quite forgotten what you were treating of and so instead of casting a slur upon the Assembly of Divines you cast a great slur upon your self as if you did not at all understand what you write of for observe you are writing of Election and you bring a passage of the Assembly about Justification you would prove if you could that none are actually Elected until they believe and say that the Assembly are forced to allow that none are actually justified till they do believe Surely that grave Assembly of Divines was never so abused as by you they knew well enough what they said I would you had the thousandth part of the Knowledge they had The Assembly say well that God decreed to justifie the Elect from Eternity and so he decreed to Sanctifie them from Eternity but they are neither actually Justified nor Sanctified until the Holy Spirit do call them Election is one thing Justification is another Election is an Immanent Act of God and from Eternity Justification is a transient Act of God towards the Elect in time Ay but this Author will make this matter evident to every considerate Reader viz. that none are actually Elected until they be Converted Saith he All that are actually elected have an Inheritance in the Kingdom of God and none can lay any thing to their charge 1 Pet. 1.2 3 4. Rom. 8.33 But no unbelieving Drunkard Whoremonger hath any Inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and of God Eph. 5.5 And these Impieties may be laid to their charge therefore no unbelieving Drunkard Whoremonger or Idolater is actually Elected 1. To explain this 1. There is an Eternal Predestinating some Persons to the Heavenly Inheritance by the meer good pleasure of God's Will Ephes 1.11 In whom also we have obtained an Inheritance being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things according to the Counsel of his own Will Here the Apostle shews that whether they be Jews who first trusted in Christ or Gentiles who were brought to trust in Christ after the Jews v. 12 13. yet whatsoever they are Jews or Gentiles that truly trust in Christ they have obtained a right to the Heavenly Inheritance Then he shews how they come to be partakers of this Grace to have Christ given for them and given to them and this he shews in these words Being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things according to the Counsel of his own Will He would have them know that all that God doth for them in time is because he had predestinated them and chosen them from Eternity to Grace and Glory So let that be well observed that all that God hath predestinated to Life have the Heavenly Inheritance allotted and appointed to them it is theirs by Predestination by Election 2. There is a Title to the Heavenly Inheritance by the purchase of Christ the Mediator 3. There is an actual right to the Heavenly Inheritance by Regeneration and Adoption These three things considered the Answer to this Author is That all that are saved had a Title to the Heavenly Inheritance from Eternity by Election by the Gracious Decree of God the Kingdom of God was prepared for them to Eternity Matth. 25.34 Come ye blessed of my Father inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the Foundation of the World As if our Saviour had said You that are saved look to the first cause of it you were Blessed of my Father he elected you from Eternity he gave me to die for you he called you in due season and made you a peculiar People zealous of good Works and thus you come to inherit the Kingdom Again The Elect before Conversion have Right in Christ their Head to the heavenly Inheritance before they be called because Christ hath purchased it for them Yea Eternal Life was promised to Christ for them as their Head in the Covenant of Redemption before the World began Tit. 1.12 But when the Apostle saith that no wicked Man hath any Inheritance in the Kingdom of God Ephes 5.5 the meaning is only that though God may have purposed in his Eternal Counsel to give the Heavenly Inheritance to a Man that for the present is ungodly and Christ the Mediator may have purchased the Heavenly Inheritance yet this is a secret thing known only to God himself But for what appears yet to the unregenerate Man himself or to others he hath no Part nor Lot in that Heavenly Inheritance As for those Words Rom. 8.33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's Elect The Apostle had said Ver. 30. Whom he predestinated them he also called and whom he called them he also justified and whom he justified them he also glorified The Apostle seems in this place to answer to two Objections that some might make 1. That it is long before some that are predestinated are called and if they be not called they cannot be justified and so if they should die before they are called What will become of them The Apostle shews that though God hath not yet called them he will call them and though there might be a Charge of innumerable Sins against an elect Person before he be converted yet Who shall lay them to the Charge of God's Elect to damn them in Hell They are Elect and God's Election stops any Arrest of an Elect Person so as that he cannot be thrown into Hell The Elect have a Reprieve in order to their Pardon in God's Time 2. It might be objected That whereas the Apostle had said Ver. 30. Whom he hath called them he also justified Have not the Elect after they are called if they live any long time after their Conversion committed many Sins that might be laid to their Charge They did not sin only before they were called but sin much after they are called How then are they justified The Apostle answers Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's Elect with effect so as to bring them to Damnation in Hell Though every Sin they commit doth deserve Eternal Damnation yet 't is God with whom they have to do and seeing he will not take Vengeance but glorifie his Free Grace in Christ to them who hath to do with it God that may do it he justifies them Yea the Apostle goes on and shews v. 34. that the Elect are secured from Eternal Damnation in Hell not only by Election but by Redemption That though they have deserved it as well as others yet saith the Apostle who shall condemn that is the Elect eventually and eternally Indeed they are condemned by the Law till they be in Christ But who shall condemn them